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What a MMO should have
melwe
Member Posts: 78
So here I am another day thinking to myself, 'wow, games have become so boring and bland lately!' I just picked up a Sony PSP the other day trading in my Nintendo DS my wife bought me for Christmas so I can play Mario Kart with my 2 daughters. I bought Patapon and Gods of War; both pretty fun, but so linear its scary.
It is the linearity of the common game that keeps me interested in the MMO genre. Now I'm not a big fan of a lot that is out there and I'm currently paying for a sub to Age of Conan with very indifferent feelings of that game. Now I'm not sure what your point of view is on what a MMO should have in it, but I'd like to think there should be some real creativity in your quests. So let me start out with how I view what the MMO should have in it, not just any MMO, but a Fantasy World MMO.
I pick the fantasy world because it usually becomes something easy to manipulate an altered earth back in the dark ages where mystical creatures that fly overhead, in forests, water and those that live far below ground in dark caves rarely explored by intelligent races. Its easy for a company to say there are dwarfs, elves, gnomes, humans, fairies, trolls, orcs, leprachauns, giants, ogres, etc... It is easy to say there is magic in the fantasy world where guns weren't invented yet and swords, daggers, axes were the way to hack at people. The fantasy world has been created by thousands of authors for almost over a century. The world can be almost visualized by the player by just reading about a game, mountains with huge waterfalls and caves that hold endless quests for treasures and wealth. Its a world where crafting an item doesn't cause need for thousands of parts, and enchants can make an ordianry item suddenly magical and powerful. Its almost believable and people tend to like to leave the real world and get lost in a fantasy world where they can live out some dreams they once had of slaying dragons and evil and boasting to be king of all the land.
Now lets get into the game itself. There will always be good versus evil, conflicts, treaties, races, classes, and skill sets that each would have over the other. So forget how many classes there should be, how many start zones there should be, and what class balance amongst each other there will be. I want to delve into the leveling of a player in a new MMO.
Leveling is something almost noone wants to do because they feel the game doesn't start till they reach the capped level. My question to that is a simple why? What about crafting, exploring dungeons, learning roles of other classes? If the leveling process were slowed down people would then feel it necessary to craft items that would give them an edge over the average other player. They would actually go into a dungeon a few times knowing that the gear they get from that dungeon won't be replaced the next day when they are 5 levels higher. They would actually want to look to group with different types of classes to learn their strengths and weaknesses. The leveling process should be a process that people actually have use for the gear they get from quests, crafting, or auction house. If that leveling process allows the average person to level from 1 to 30 in 8 hours play time, there is something seriously wrong. This puts crafting at risk of being unusable and unneccessary. This puts dungeons at risk of never being used. This puts the average player at risk of never getting to know what a priest can and cannot do.
Crafting should also be something that is useful. Items should not be all that hard to gather for, but there should be enough variety out there that keeps people interested. If a MMO is not linear in questing and gameplay, I have seen very few attempts at allowing crafting to not be linear. It was tried I know, but it was still very linear.
Dungeons should be difficult. It should not be just a walk in the park, get some good gear and walk away. Run the dungeon three times, get bored? No, no, no. Balance and difficulty allowing people to try different things yet get rewarded. Dungeons should benefit all in the party, not just the luck of the draw with a random drop so it will attract people and limit those that hit need just out of greed.
Quests would have to be added to keep people occupied, and I don't mean those quests where you need to hunt 200 snakes to get a 2 silver reward. Quests should have consequences, real role playing from the quest giver to how you interact. Reputation should have consequences and awards. Reputation should not just be by completing quests, but how you speak to people (quest givers) in the game, are you rude or cooperative? This in turn will allow you to get different quests depending on which direction you go in. Quests should flow with a story, not making you feel like a hero everytime you do a quest should not be necessary. Doing 5 quests should not at all throw you a level. Maybe they shouldn't award you gear either, but some recipes for crafting. Questing should be about just that, questing.
My point really here is that the leveling process needs to be slowed down. It needs to get back to the basics for people to enjoy the leveling process in general. There should be a focus on the 99% of the world these MMO games are living in rather than the ten .1% end game dungeons people want to farm for 6-9 months. There should be story lines, epic battles of the good v evil concept. Its what makes every fantasy world and story successsful. Why shouldn't the MMO have that story line, that depth?
I understand there are people out there that just like end game or pvp. Well Fury took the PVP nature of the MMO and eliminated the quests of PVE. I'm sure someone will eventually come out with some end game only content on a MMO scale. My purpose of this is to get the MMO Fantasy genre game back to the way it once was, a slow leveling process where crafting meant something, going to the same dungeon 3 times at level 34 didn't get you to level 35 and you could use the gear for a few days rather than a few hours.
Comments
I love you man, have my babys.
You know what is scary here? You have been a member here for over a year and your very first post ever on these boards is this!
I'm not saying it is perfect, but for your desires (as long as you arent an anti-groupist) FFXI seems to be more of a game for you.
But i agree, a lot has been lost through the evolution of games, and they all seem to be slightly modified versions of WoW to me (with a few exceptions).
awesome post!
i agree that leveling/class based MMO's should be like that.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
This is a must read... for addition
all i want for an MMO to have is 4-C's a concrete, concise, competitive and consistent storyline...
I dunno.
You suggest that in order to master anything, you must master everything, and thereby indulge in everything.
What if the GF of the lead designer enjoys the Little Poney and as a result you need to travel to Poney Land and do some very sweeties stuff and save the day and the feelings of everyone when the 3rd expansion is release, with a totally new gameplay which has nothing to do with everything else to that point?
Why should someone craft in order to become a better fighter? Why should someone PvP if all he wants is to kill the goblins NPCs better than anyone else?
If anything, modern MMOs are slowly, but certainly, learning that players will do what they like, and the rewards better be there. If player1 just want to solo, then you cannot make someone a better soloer because he did anything outside of solo. This is just unacceptable, as you forego the freedom of the player, and says, that solo is not a viable option. Yet, in this example, you somehow "half-heartily support" solo by offering players to be weaker by doing what they enjoy.
Making it harder and longer is something anyone enjoying it will accept, forcing players into your choosen gameplays is not acceptable. In the old days of EQ, it was the jungle, you could put do pretty much anything you want as a dev and the player has about no alternative, it was your game or DAoC, which wasn't much choice at all.
Now with games such as WoW and CoX, you will have serious issues appealing to a big portion of the playerbase without giving them tools which are at least equals, if not outright better, than what they are experiencing. For example, if you would be alone on an island with a girl in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, you would be surprised of all you would be willing to do (either comply to her every whims or abuse her and be a criminal) in order to get her favors no matter how cute she is or not, while if you are in a city, well, with more options...see, the gaming market evolve.
See, logics as yours could be oversimplified here: Vanguard. My answer could be simplified to: No thanks, CoX. Most peoples answer was: No thanks; WoW. While 10 years ago, I would have answered a resounding yes.
Challenges and timesinks can't be whatever the devs want to throw in, they have to be the activity which the player want to play.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
If FFXI had 10 million subs and WoW had a couple hundred thousand then we'd be seeing tons of FFXI clones.......Most companies are only interested in the bottom line......Most companies will keep producing WoW clones because they sell and until we stop buying them we are going to get that kind of MMO.....
I am not suggesting that you must master everything and indulge in everything whatsoever. I look at Warcraft when it very first came out. I'm not sure you played then, but I am assuming yes. It took a long time to level. There were a lot more quests to accomplish and places to explore. Once the draw became end game, players didn't want to level anymore, they wanted to be able to role an alt, get to level 60 in a few weeks and join their friends in teh daily grind of end game. What I am saying is that if the devs of modern MMOs also focused on the leveling process with content, people wouldn't want to rush to cap.
Also, MMOs are so large people can't expect a game to have everything right off the shelf, it takes an enormous amount of time. Think about how long a regular game can be in production. Now think about the MMO with is 100x the scale of a regular game.
Gamers today are spoiled and expect perfection immediately. It will be the gamers themselves that become the death of the MMO because developers can't stem the tide of negativity being cast.
OK Ill throw in a few thoughts:
1. PVE or PVP- I think a game should concentrate on one or the other...it seems that most that employ both have balancing issues....If youre going to have pvp make it have some meaning for the players...... Let the PVP decide who controls cities or resources or other entities in the game,,,,,,FOr PVE give the players many options for soloing, grouping, and raiding.......Give players good reasons to group with strong incentives......
2. Make crafting somewhat challenging (yet not a total bore) so that you dont have 95 percent of the playerbase being master craftsmen......While some players complain when crafting is tough many others appreciate it when only a few can make what they can make and make the items at top end worth having.....
3. Instancing- Im Ok with some instancing but not at every corner......Make the towns a place where everyone can gather and see other people......Make the game feel like its alive and flowing.
4. Selling- Alot of people differ as to what method of selling is employed but I feel that being able to sell your wares to other players is one of he most important things in any game.....Make the means of selling convenient for the players and not too much of a burden.....I have no problem with an auction house getting a fee when an item is sold but I do not like being charged to list an item for sale......
5. Death- It really depends on how the game goes as to what kind of death penalty you have.....If you die often not many will want a severe death penalty.......I have found that in games where I had no fear of death (LoTRO, WoW, EQ2) that I nor many others played as well......Players arent as cautious and most of the time use little or no strategy when it doesnt matter whether they die or not.......
6. World size- This one is tough....If you go too big like Vanguard did then you spread out your playerbase quite a bit.....If you make it too small then players feel like there isnt much content because they are seeing the same areas over and over again......
6. Travel- Another issue where players will differ quite a bit.......Some like long travel times where it takes several minutes to get anywhere while others want to get to taht camp or quest area immediately..... I have seen alot of both and in general prefer getting to my destination more quickly....... I can see some dungeons or very special spots with a little longer travel time but in general I dont like having to wait several minutes for my group or raid to arrive.......
7.class/skill based- another hot topic that will vary greatly amont players......If your game has classes make sure they all are useful in different ways to give players incentive to try several of them.....Also I like a game with 12-16 classes more than a game with 4-8 classes....I like to play several characters and dont punish me for wanting to do so by limiting how many characters I can play (8 or so per server is fine but dont give me only 8 total)........If the game is skill based then try to make it where the skill is truly that of the player or make it where they have to make decisions on building their character.....A game isnt skill based if that skill is acquired by a script or some other program while the player is not even at the keyboard...... Also if skill is the determining factor then you have to decide how important is gear in the game?? If gear is no factor then make sure there are other incentives for players to want to play....After all alot of us do enjoy getting that shiny new breatplate when we kill that difficult named........
Agreed. A quest should be something that you embark on, outside the MMO genre a quest has an almost epic connotation. Here in the MMO world the quest has come to be synonymous to "chore." You are right, players should be told to do things like find a buried treasure, or locate the dwelling of an ancient dragon - all with the purpose of enjoying the quest not necessarily the reward.
Which FF Character Are You?
Not to bring up FFXI over and over again. but one thing i particularly liked was the setup where 1 character could be multiple classes by going to their mog house (basically locker room for anyone who hasnt played). Now, i understand for some games your class/race is tied into the story or there is some other limiting factor, but being able to try out multiple classes and get max level on multiple ones without having to do the monotonous begining-of-the-game mandatory quests (or as we've dubbed them, chores) over and over again. also you can keep the same name, so even though you're a low level on this class, your reputation is still that of a good player, so you'll still be able to talk to people you've met before, and still be respected by them (or they'll be able to recognize you has a prick, whichever they knew you as before).
I think there's a lot of truth to that. Personally I would like to see fewer level based games but as far as level based games are concerned, yes I agree.
I would even take it a step further and say that the simplest solution to all the end-game bickering is to slow leveling waaayyyyy down and not have an end game at all. Just make sure the leveling up process is fun and then let it go on and on forever. If it's slow enough it'll give the devs time to add new content for continued leveling before the bulk of the players get to that point.
Of course there would still be the problem that all level based games have of old parts of the world becoming obsolete and deserted. I don't know if there is any good solution for that problem but I know that I for one haven't been able to see any good solution that people would be ok with.
QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude that line has sig written all over it!!
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
As far as class balance goes, why there will always be those more powerful than others. Not everyone can be equal. There are always going to be front line types (warrior/hybrid class), ranged types (caster/ranger), and the back of the line type (healer/buffs/support). In PVP, people want the ability to play these classes and have them all equal on damage mitigation and attack power. In PVE, people want the ability to play these classes the way they were intended to be. There will never be a balance of the two; its nearly impossible.
I agree with the OP. In fact I'd like to see 99% of armour and weapons crafted not dropped, and if you don't want to craft buy it on the auction house from someone who does. Raw materials should be what drops from mobs the majority of the time.
I want to see a strong and interesting background story and the world change permanently when the players complete certain storyline objectives, then new objectives introduced. If you make the objectives hard enough it will give the developers time to come up with the next ones.
too complicated for the masses. the money is in the masses aka mainstream. Even single player RPGs are suffering from the let's-dumb-it-down-for-the-masses approach.
I don't know the costs that go into maintaining a MMO. What I would like to see also from the account managment companies is an active subscriber count of the games they are managing. If I want to go try something new, I'd like to be able to go to a game that has 'x' amount of players. There are a lot of games out there right now. I have not found a game I like enough to be able to sit down each and every night.
Warcraft had that vibe for me. I couldn't get enough, had to do that one more thing. The leveling process took time. Then the patch came out in November 06 right before the release of Burning Crusade and it all just suddenly crashed. What was once a game of progression had turned into reputation grinding.
By progression I mean before the grinding of MC runs:
Go to Black Rock Depths, get some blues and MC Key
Go to Lower Black Rock Spire, get some blues
Go to Dire Maul get some blues
Go to Upper Black Rock Spire, get some blues
Then you are just about ready to be powerful enough to assist 39 other people in Molten Core.
One thing jumped out at me in particular with your post and that was your mention of consequences. In my experience, the lack of consequences leads to a very stock like(common/non-unique/bland) gaming experience. Unfortunately, most game providers opt for the lack of consequences because there is a larger audience who prefers a lack of consequences. I am referring to the uniqueness of a build, and quest progression. I think it is silly if a game doesn't provide functions like faction and reputation for things like attacking city guards and townsfolk. In fact, I will take a step farther and say that consequences in quest progression would be an interesting addition. For example, I should be able to choose to complete quest line A or quest line B, but not both in some circumstances. The player shouldn't be able to play both sides of the coin where practicality is concerned. If I side with the elves in the war then I shouldn't be able to side with the orcs and get rewards for that too. But again, a large audience prefers as many rewards as possible without regard for roleplay or consequences.