yea... for those who don't know it yet i'll explain...
generally you do the DPS math like this... how long will it take to kill the player with a constant 100dps on him including all his buffs and heals...
mages will prolly die in 20 seconds... + time it takes to get to them, priests maybe 35 seconds+time they get by healing themselves, tanks prolly 50 seconds... and so on...
then you simply divide 10.000 hp by the time it takes to kll them... for mages say around 25 seconds so 400 dps, priests say 70 seconds so 140 dps, tanks 200 dps...
And that's just the most basic way to do it... since a mmorpg has a LOT of ways to use the spells and abilityes that the devs never thought of... say in wow i loved pulling 4 mobs with my priest, killing 2... and then when i'm oom... i just hit them with my wand, wait till my hp is almost out, shield+heal and then wait again...
Originally posted by PROdotes yea... for those who don't know it yet i'll explain... generally you do the DPS math like this... how long will it take to kill the player with a constant 100dps on him including all his buffs and heals... mages will prolly die in 20 seconds... + time it takes to get to them, priests maybe 35 seconds+time they get by healing themselves, tanks prolly 50 seconds... and so on... then you simply divide 10.000 hp by the time it takes to kll them... for mages say around 25 seconds so 400 dps, priests say 70 seconds so 140 dps, tanks 200 dps... And that's just the most basic way to do it... since a mmorpg has a LOT of ways to use the spells and abilityes that the devs never thought of... say in wow i loved pulling 4 mobs with my priest, killing 2... and then when i'm oom... i just hit them with my wand, wait till my hp is almost out, shield+heal and then wait again...
HuH??
DPS means Damage per Second, and is a measure of the damage OUTPUT of a character, not their survivability prowess. It is NOT affected by enemy buffs or defenses when you are trying to compare classes against each other, but is instead affected by the buffs and abilities of the character outputting the damage.
For some reason I think DoK will be nerfed first, if any nerfing occures(hopefully not). It screams what shaman was like when WoW first came out. It's a melee DPS/hybrid caster that can buff itself(totems) but instead by draining other's stats. I've read some polls on WHA etc. that have a lot of people lining up to play it. I dunno, who knows really w/o breaking NDA, and even now the game isn't on shelves so anything can change.
currently playing: FFXI Waiting for FFXIV to be updated more.
yea... for those who don't know it yet i'll explain...
generally you do the DPS math like this... how long will it take to kill the player with a constant 100dps on him including all his buffs and heals...
mages will prolly die in 20 seconds... + time it takes to get to them, priests maybe 35 seconds+time they get by healing themselves, tanks prolly 50 seconds... and so on...
then you simply divide 10.000 hp by the time it takes to kll them... for mages say around 25 seconds so 400 dps, priests say 70 seconds so 140 dps, tanks 200 dps...
And that's just the most basic way to do it... since a mmorpg has a LOT of ways to use the spells and abilityes that the devs never thought of... say in wow i loved pulling 4 mobs with my priest, killing 2... and then when i'm oom... i just hit them with my wand, wait till my hp is almost out, shield+heal and then wait again...
HuH??
DPS means Damage per Second, and is a measure of the damage OUTPUT of a character, not their survivability prowess. It is NOT affected by enemy buffs or defenses when you are trying to compare classes against each other, but is instead affected by the buffs and abilities of the character outputting the damage.
It's just an explanation of how todays "balance" issues work... basicly devs go about it this way "every class needs the same survivability" and how do you do that? You compare the time it takes for a class to die and make them all do the same timeframe from when they start attacking till they die )
So since mages have a VERY short lifetime they have to have VERY high dps, while priests who can constantly heal themselves get very low dps to "compensate"...
IMHO it's a bad way to balance since it makes every class viable in every option... but since the mage has 400 dps and 2000 hp and the tank has 200 and 5000 hp... the mage will down the tank in 12.5 seconds while the tank will down the mage in 10 seconds... the 2.5 seconds is the time it will take the tank to get from the sleppcasting range to the mage... and therefore they are "balanced" in mathematical terms...
Originally posted by PROdotes It's just an explanation of how todays "balance" issues work... basicly devs go about it this way "every class needs the same survivability" and how do you do that? You compare the time it takes for a class to die and make them all do the same timeframe from when they start attacking till they die ) So since mages have a VERY short lifetime they have to have VERY high dps, while priests who can constantly heal themselves get very low dps to "compensate"... IMHO it's a bad way to balance since it makes every class viable in every option... but since the mage has 400 dps and 2000 hp and the tank has 200 and 5000 hp... the mage will down the tank in 12.5 seconds while the tank will down the mage in 10 seconds... the 2.5 seconds is the time it will take the tank to get from the sleppcasting range to the mage... and therefore they are "balanced" in mathematical terms...
Any developer that does it that way is a pure idiot.
You cannot say every encounter between a ranged character and a melee character happens at "max range". It is simply unrealistic, not to mention can be altered by speed buffs and gear. Because of that, you can't have more than 50% of the "range between characters" count as DPS-time.
Not only that, but nowadays most tanks have abilities that are either ranged (like taunts), or instants (like shouts), or that kick in from short range (like axe throwing). Most tanks aren't pure "tanks" at all, when compared to tanks from 8 years ago. That detracts even more from the ranged factor when computing survivability of character vs character.
And DPS still means "Damage Per Second", and when computing it you never ever consider another class and their playstyle - you just crunch the numbers. It is only after the DPS numbers are known, that you start adding in other considerations like range, terrain, LOS, etc.
It's just an explanation of how todays "balance" issues work... basicly devs go about it this way "every class needs the same survivability" and how do you do that? You compare the time it takes for a class to die and make them all do the same timeframe from when they start attacking till they die )
So since mages have a VERY short lifetime they have to have VERY high dps, while priests who can constantly heal themselves get very low dps to "compensate"...
IMHO it's a bad way to balance since it makes every class viable in every option... but since the mage has 400 dps and 2000 hp and the tank has 200 and 5000 hp... the mage will down the tank in 12.5 seconds while the tank will down the mage in 10 seconds... the 2.5 seconds is the time it will take the tank to get from the sleppcasting range to the mage... and therefore they are "balanced" in mathematical terms...
Any developer that does it that way is a pure idiot.
You cannot say every encounter between a ranged character and a melee character happens at "max range". It is simply unrealistic, not to mention can be altered by speed buffs and gear. Because of that, you can't have more than 50% of the "range between characters" count as DPS-time.
Not only that, but nowadays most tanks have abilities that are either ranged (like taunts), or instants (like shouts), or that kick in from short range (like axe throwing). Most tanks aren't pure "tanks" at all, when compared to tanks from 8 years ago. That detracts even more from the ranged factor when computing survivability of character vs character.
And DPS still means "Damage Per Second", and when computing it you never ever consider another class and their playstyle - you just crunch the numbers. It is only after the DPS numbers are known, that you start adding in other considerations like range, terrain, LOS, etc.
True... and i agree eith all of it... but look at todays mmorpgs... rogue classes getting nerfed because mage classes can't beat them, melee tanks getting anti magic spells because they can't pvp against mage classes... and a LOT of similar stuff going on in almost every mmorpg
Now i know Mythic is trying not to do that and instead saying "well you're a melee tank so team a healer or get away from mages and stick with killing rogues" but you can expect a lot of "kids" to cry out once they find out that can never win against certain classes unless they are very skilled and the enemy isnt )
Wow this many posts and no mention of Warrior Priest so far?
Yeah, hands down if one class should be nerfed, it would be the WP. Again and again and again.
the problem with melee/healer hybrids is the fact they dont have as much dmg out put cause they sacrafice that for healing. unless the devs in WAR wanna break that mold and make the heals crappy.
Ever play a DAoC friar? Decent DPS output, passable heals, and obnoxiously hard to kill unless you completely shut them down.
They aren't waiting for launch to nerf I don't think any classes is going to see a nerf like daoc (archers, smite clerics, left axe etc) but obviously as people play the game, and figure out combinations devs never thought about changes will have to be made.
PS: white lion has no ranged attack, how can it resemble a wow's hunter? Especially when you have a squig herder?
its probably the white lion class its just another hunter in wow and the hunters in wowo need to get nerfed
Yeah because hunters in WoW go around chopping people into little pieces with awesome 2-Handed axes.
Hmm, I think...well, if they listen to people's whining, probably the Bright Wizard or Sorceress because they're super damage magic dealers (even though their spells can fail or even backfire, but the average QQer doesn't realize this). If they do it right and look at fights and see which classes seem to be dominating, I'm not sure because we have no way of telling at this point. Maybe after NDA lifts .
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Just from watching some of the vids and hearsay I can see 3/4 classes that look a wee bit overpowered. I'd say:- White Lion Magus/Engineer Marauder
If most of the classes are overpowered maybe its just a couple classes need to be buffed?
Why the hell do we have to start whinning about class balance already?
What I hate about pvp games is the constant whining about how x class can't kill y class. Then the developers proceed to ruin the distinctions between each class untill all classes are doing the same thing. If people would understand the concept of group pvp instead of one on one garbage.
its probably the white lion class its just another hunter in wow and the hunters in wowo need to get nerfed
Yeah because hunters in WoW go around chopping people into little pieces with awesome 2-Handed axes.
Hmm, I think...well, if they listen to people's whining, probably the Bright Wizard or Sorceress because they're super damage magic dealers (even though their spells can fail or even backfire, but the average QQer doesn't realize this). If they do it right and look at fights and see which classes seem to be dominating, I'm not sure because we have no way of telling at this point. Maybe after NDA lifts .
when i meet u in game im gonna have a squig eat ur face and another eat ur legs order DIES
Just as a side note, don't treat this game as WoW or a simple PvP game. The key difference in WAR is they're balancing classes AROUND PvP FIRST, instead of WoW where it's balanced around PvE. Balancing around PvE leads to buffs, nerfs, buffs, nerfs until kingdom come. I'm not saying WAR will have perfect balance at release, and I'm sure there will need to be some tweaking, but I honestly expect it to be minor. No game-breaking nerfs that make a class as useful as wet toilet paper.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Comments
yea... for those who don't know it yet i'll explain...
generally you do the DPS math like this... how long will it take to kill the player with a constant 100dps on him including all his buffs and heals...
mages will prolly die in 20 seconds... + time it takes to get to them, priests maybe 35 seconds+time they get by healing themselves, tanks prolly 50 seconds... and so on...
then you simply divide 10.000 hp by the time it takes to kll them... for mages say around 25 seconds so 400 dps, priests say 70 seconds so 140 dps, tanks 200 dps...
And that's just the most basic way to do it... since a mmorpg has a LOT of ways to use the spells and abilityes that the devs never thought of... say in wow i loved pulling 4 mobs with my priest, killing 2... and then when i'm oom... i just hit them with my wand, wait till my hp is almost out, shield+heal and then wait again...
DPS means Damage per Second, and is a measure of the damage OUTPUT of a character, not their survivability prowess. It is NOT affected by enemy buffs or defenses when you are trying to compare classes against each other, but is instead affected by the buffs and abilities of the character outputting the damage.
For some reason I think DoK will be nerfed first, if any nerfing occures(hopefully not). It screams what shaman was like when WoW first came out. It's a melee DPS/hybrid caster that can buff itself(totems) but instead by draining other's stats. I've read some polls on WHA etc. that have a lot of people lining up to play it. I dunno, who knows really w/o breaking NDA, and even now the game isn't on shelves so anything can change.
currently playing: FFXI
Waiting for FFXIV to be updated more.
DPS means Damage per Second, and is a measure of the damage OUTPUT of a character, not their survivability prowess. It is NOT affected by enemy buffs or defenses when you are trying to compare classes against each other, but is instead affected by the buffs and abilities of the character outputting the damage.
It's just an explanation of how todays "balance" issues work... basicly devs go about it this way "every class needs the same survivability" and how do you do that? You compare the time it takes for a class to die and make them all do the same timeframe from when they start attacking till they die
)
So since mages have a VERY short lifetime they have to have VERY high dps, while priests who can constantly heal themselves get very low dps to "compensate"...
IMHO it's a bad way to balance since it makes every class viable in every option... but since the mage has 400 dps and 2000 hp and the tank has 200 and 5000 hp... the mage will down the tank in 12.5 seconds while the tank will down the mage in 10 seconds... the 2.5 seconds is the time it will take the tank to get from the sleppcasting range to the mage... and therefore they are "balanced" in mathematical terms...
You cannot say every encounter between a ranged character and a melee character happens at "max range". It is simply unrealistic, not to mention can be altered by speed buffs and gear. Because of that, you can't have more than 50% of the "range between characters" count as DPS-time.
Not only that, but nowadays most tanks have abilities that are either ranged (like taunts), or instants (like shouts), or that kick in from short range (like axe throwing). Most tanks aren't pure "tanks" at all, when compared to tanks from 8 years ago. That detracts even more from the ranged factor when computing survivability of character vs character.
And DPS still means "Damage Per Second", and when computing it you never ever consider another class and their playstyle - you just crunch the numbers. It is only after the DPS numbers are known, that you start adding in other considerations like range, terrain, LOS, etc.
You cannot say every encounter between a ranged character and a melee character happens at "max range". It is simply unrealistic, not to mention can be altered by speed buffs and gear. Because of that, you can't have more than 50% of the "range between characters" count as DPS-time.
Not only that, but nowadays most tanks have abilities that are either ranged (like taunts), or instants (like shouts), or that kick in from short range (like axe throwing). Most tanks aren't pure "tanks" at all, when compared to tanks from 8 years ago. That detracts even more from the ranged factor when computing survivability of character vs character.
And DPS still means "Damage Per Second", and when computing it you never ever consider another class and their playstyle - you just crunch the numbers. It is only after the DPS numbers are known, that you start adding in other considerations like range, terrain, LOS, etc.
True... and i agree eith all of it... but look at todays mmorpgs... rogue classes getting nerfed because mage classes can't beat them, melee tanks getting anti magic spells because they can't pvp against mage classes... and a LOT of similar stuff going on in almost every mmorpg
Now i know Mythic is trying not to do that and instead saying "well you're a melee tank so team a healer or get away from mages and stick with killing rogues" but you can expect a lot of "kids" to cry out once they find out that can never win against certain classes unless they are very skilled and the enemy isnt
)
We have no idea, they still balancing... but I vote White Lion
I have not idea aswell, as i am not in beta, but i will vote for Shaman...
The small green guy is fishy...
----------------
We don't need a king of MMOs, we need a group of Titans so that everyone can play what suits them best.
-Ascension08
the problem with melee/healer hybrids is the fact they dont have as much dmg out put cause they sacrafice that for healing. unless the devs in WAR wanna break that mold and make the heals crappy.
Ever play a DAoC friar? Decent DPS output, passable heals, and obnoxiously hard to kill unless you completely shut them down.
its probably the white lion class its just another hunter in wow and the hunters in wowo need to get nerfed
kill the clowns O.o the damn clowns
They aren't waiting for launch to nerf
I don't think any classes is going to see a nerf like daoc (archers, smite clerics, left axe etc) but obviously as people play the game, and figure out combinations devs never thought about changes will have to be made.
PS: white lion has no ranged attack, how can it resemble a wow's hunter? Especially when you have a squig herder?
Yeah because hunters in WoW go around chopping people into little pieces with awesome 2-Handed axes.
Hmm, I think...well, if they listen to people's whining, probably the Bright Wizard or Sorceress because they're super damage magic dealers (even though their spells can fail or even backfire, but the average QQer doesn't realize this). If they do it right and look at fights and see which classes seem to be dominating, I'm not sure because we have no way of telling at this point. Maybe after NDA lifts
.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
If most of the classes are overpowered maybe its just a couple classes need to be buffed?
Why the hell do we have to start whinning about class balance already?
What I hate about pvp games is the constant whining about how x class can't kill y class. Then the developers proceed to ruin the distinctions between each class untill all classes are doing the same thing. If people would understand the concept of group pvp instead of one on one garbage.
Yeah because hunters in WoW go around chopping people into little pieces with awesome 2-Handed axes.
Hmm, I think...well, if they listen to people's whining, probably the Bright Wizard or Sorceress because they're super damage magic dealers (even though their spells can fail or even backfire, but the average QQer doesn't realize this). If they do it right and look at fights and see which classes seem to be dominating, I'm not sure because we have no way of telling at this point. Maybe after NDA lifts
.
when i meet u in game im gonna have a squig eat ur face and another eat ur legs
order DIES
kill the clowns O.o the damn clowns
Just as a side note, don't treat this game as WoW or a simple PvP game. The key difference in WAR is they're balancing classes AROUND PvP FIRST, instead of WoW where it's balanced around PvE. Balancing around PvE leads to buffs, nerfs, buffs, nerfs until kingdom come. I'm not saying WAR will have perfect balance at release, and I'm sure there will need to be some tweaking, but I honestly expect it to be minor. No game-breaking nerfs that make a class as useful as wet toilet paper.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.