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Fable II, the best thing to happen to MMORPGs.
Funseiki
Member UncommonPosts: 263
Edit: I am putting the edit at the top because it seems many of the posters sadly never made it to the bottom of this first post. I know many of you like Fable and I know many of you dislike Fable, which is great, but please keep the replies relevant to the actual topic of discussion. Thank you.
With the release of Fable II only a few months away and the recent E3 unveiling of many of its features, my interest was peaked in this single player RPG. It wasn't the one button combat or the online coop that caught my interest (though those are definitely making me want to preorder now), rather it's what Peter Molyneux and the rest at Lionhead Studios are doing with the game genre itself. It is how they are going to convey and reciprocate emotion. I have had plenty of friends watch the video showing the dog in gameplay. They all said that they actually felt sorry for the dog as he limped toward his master.
Whether not they succeed was not the point of me starting this thread. But the fact that they are putting a conscious effort into bringing forth emotion from not only the non playing characters in the game, but the main character, us, was. I may be making a hasty generalization when saying this, but I think that most MMOs and MMO developers today don't give a crap how we, the players, "feel" when we play their game. Why should they? As long as we got cool armor, pretty trees and some character customization we should be happy right? I can't answer the question for everyone but I think that what Fable II is doing with emotion is something all games, or at least all Role Play Games should also be doing.
A role play game is where a player plays the role of a character in a game, they are meant to be the character. Since video games only capture two of our five senses, sight and sound, there really is no way can be a character in a game. The best way a developer can create the impression that we are, is if we feel we are.
I know this may be difficult for Massively Multiplayer games, because there is so much that developers feel they need to put into the game, that the actual substance - the depth of the character gets lost in the process. Bigger worlds, cool weapons, lots of people is all great. But to say that the game is for role playing, I think is a stretch. I think a successful MMORPG would be one that actual made me feel something more than just boredom at the repetitiveness of this genre, if I actual felt getting the wolf carcasses and spider eggs were actually helping someone out.
I know this was a damn long start for a thread, but I felt something like this should be said because many are mentioning the fall of the MMORPG genre, I think this may be one of the reasons why.
Please respond with your own opinions
Comments
I like Fable. Really hope Mr Molyneux decides to work on a mmo after this.
The MMORPG Genre will never fall because its like Unreal tournament or game u play with people online to compete. The idea to play with 1000's of people is better then playing with someone next door. Its all about who is the badest and everyone wants that to be them somewhere down in there hearts so they play.
Good point. Evoking emotions while in game really help to not only bring immersion, but also a level of attachment to the game itself. Fable 1 was great for making the characters you encounter to all have at least some depth, whereas everyone (person or computer) you meet in MMO's are flat.
MMORPGers would argue that the point of an RPG is to make up your own emotions and that the framework is there for it, but for us non-traditional RP gamers, giving a little push in the right direction by designers goes a long way.
FYI the Fable series is/will be the best RPGs ever. If they bring it to a MMO platform with the same quality they will create the best MMO as well.
I don't think you read his post correctly. He's saying that Fable II offers a new level of depth to gaming (i.e. emotional interaction between game and gamers) which could be easily transferred to MMO's. He didn't seem to be making any real point about MMO's falling because they lack emotional content. You clearly are being defensive about something for no apparent reasons... +_+
I didn't mean the literal ending of all MMORPGs, I meant that many are mentioning the decline in game quality. I never really enjoyed WoW, but even many once Fanbois have said that it is too dull for them now, same goes for games like SWG and others.
Yes it is true that everyone wants to be a badass, but when it turns out though that everyone is a badass in a game, it ends up really that no one is a badass.
The point in me starting the thread though was to show how Fable II is a good example of RolePlay game because by making us, the gamers, feel emotion we can connect with our character counterparts better and actually play a role. It is something many MMO RolePlay Games do not seem to have captured.
Edit: Above poster beat me to it, thank you rmk70. Yes that is what I meant
Which FF Character Are You?
Fable was one of the RPG's I played, along with mass effect. My only problem with it is to the best of my knowledge it is not being realeased on the PC. (The new version#)
Since I dont have any consoles, they would def. get my money if thye were to realese it for the PC.
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Since when did fable have to do anything with MMORPGS? Are the view of MMO's today so skewed that people relate them to things like fable and kotor?
Making players "feel" like they are in the game is a concept used by a game called UO. It stressed real emotions through the high risk high reward system. Dev's these days dumbed mmorpgs down to attract retards that dont need to be playing mmos in the first place cause they utterly destroy its roots.
Since when did fable have to do anything with MMORPGS? Are the view of MMO's today so skewed that people relate them to things like fable and kotor?
Making players "feel" like they are in the game is a concept used by a game called UO. It stressed real emotions through the high risk high reward system. Dev's these days dumbed mmorpgs down to attract retards that dont need to be playing mmos in the first place cause they utterly destroy its roots.
Whats funny is you just answered your own question!
-Jive
Since when did fable have to do anything with MMORPGS? Are the view of MMO's today so skewed that people relate them to things like fable and kotor?
Making players "feel" like they are in the game is a concept used by a game called UO. It stressed real emotions through the high risk high reward system. Dev's these days dumbed mmorpgs down to attract retards that dont need to be playing mmos in the first place cause they utterly destroy its roots.
Whats funny is you just answered your own question!
-Jive
Yeah i guess but i never thought somone would relate a MMO to fable
I think you are right about that. There is so much work to put into an MMORPG that it's very difficult to also add a compelling story for each player or events that take place during your journey that actually trigger emotions within you. This is much easier to accomplish in a singple player RPG.
Fable is whats happening with mmorpgs......... lots of promises but nothing delivered, thats esactly how Fable 2 will end up and be another one of PM's lackluster ego titles.
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Talking about SWG much?
This is the reason why MMOs are declining, the fact that they are only designed as a competition and not as a role playing game where you do more then try to be better then the other guy.
There is no real reason to socially interact, and the only incentive people have for grouping is so they can get better items to continue being that race to be teh best.
MMORPG have the ability to be some of the deepest form of gaming to date, and as it stands now, we have a bunch of narrow minded visionless devolopers who only try to accomplish one thing with each of their games... quick sales.
Thats why all these MMo have a life span of 2 months instead of 2 years.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Eh, Fable 1 was a little shallow and nowhere near as complex as it was originally planned to be . But If I remember correctly this was acknowledged before it released .Regardless of this it sold really well , and became a premiere Xbox title .
This time around , The problems that plagued the firsts ambition. ,Really won't be an issue . Directly due to the success the first had, Besides the studio isn't exactly only known for Fable .
I'd have a little interest in what they came up with . Whether I'd play or not , Would depend on the game itself .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think many of the above posters saw the title for this thread and skimmed through my post and immediately saw me as a fanboi praising a game that has not even come out yet. The only reason I mentioned Fable 2, is because the developers themselves mentioned emotion. Read below for response I made to someone else's post.
"The point in me starting the thread though was to show how Fable II is a good example of RolePlay game because by making us, the gamers, feel emotion we can connect with our character counterparts better and actually play a role. It is something many MMO RolePlay Games do not seem to have captured."
I know that single player Role Play Games, and Massively Multiplayer Online Role Play games are two different beings, but they stem from the same concept of "roleplay game."
Which FF Character Are You?
But those people are talking out of their arse. What they actually mean is that they don't like where MMOs are going right now, or that they're jaded from playing them ten hous a day for the past ten years (hardly surprising). But it has no basis on the actual state of MMO sales and numbers. MMOs are actually the future of games. All games will eventually be online and persistent. It is SP games that are destined to die. The ones that only exist on your hard drive.
As for Fable 2, I might play it myself, but after a while I'll begin wondering why I'm bothering when I could be developing a character that exists in a persistent world. This has been my experience of playing games since starting playing MMOs. Even Oblivion, and that's a great game.
Unless Fable 2 makes major leaps and bounds over Fable, I won't be impressed. Oblivion makes the original Fable look feeble. For that reason I am not very impressed with Mr Molyneux in that regard.
Why is it, just because someone makes a successful rpg, people look to them to make a MMO. There is a huge difference as many developers have found out.
I don't know if I would agree that games will all be MMOs in the future. There are already lots of issues with MMOs right now. One is it's difficult to have world changing events. Two is it costs a monthly fee. Three is you can't concentrate on the story as much as you would like to. Four is little kids shouldn't be playing MMOs so they are stuck with single player games. Five not many people want to spend the time required to play a MMO or perfer to play by themselves. Six MMOs require a lot more money and time to produce so companies can actually make more money off single player games IMO.
I always wonder if people actually think and take a good look at what they are suggesting when they make "MMORPG's should be like Fable" or " MMORPG's should be like oblivion" threads.
I think it's more than obvious those game work like that BECAUSE they are singleplayer games.
I always wonder if people know how to read. The point of my article had nothing to do with fable being an MMORPG, it had to do with the integration of emotion and feeling into a game. I even mentioned in the post that I knew the two genres are different, but if one takes a step back to realize their similarities then we can begin to progress the MMO genre itself.
Which FF Character Are You?
I do not play an MMO to compete with others. Its fine that you do but all of us are different. I dont care if I am the "badest" or not.
I played MMOs to be a part of a community and to interact with people by working together for a common goal. Sadly I am in the minority. I just quit playing MMOs because of the fact that they have evolved into single player games with a chat box.
Most people who play MMOs today are in it for themselves and dont really care about the community. THey seem to want to get to the highest level quickly so they can raid and then complain about lack of content.
So those of you who want to just compete have fun. I will be playing Fable II.
Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.
I really enjoyed the first Fable. While it wasn't perfect it was still one of the best single player RPG I ever played.
I like Fable and plan on getting Fable2 but I dont want these guys to make an MMO. Only reason being is they are known for broken promices. Now if fable2 delivers on all these features they are talking about I may change my mind.
What makes Fable 2 interesting to me is that it gives you options and then you face whatever consequences your actions have. This is way is missing from pretty much all mmorpgs and what makes an rpg. If you have ever played pen and paper role playing game you know that consequences to your actions is key at very turn. To me this is exactly why Darkfall is a true mmorpg because it actually lets me make my own decisions and then I face the consequences of those actions, its as simple as that.
I'd also add that this is also why I found Gothic 3 to be a far superior rpg then Oblivion however Oblivion was a better game and more to the point, finished game, but as an rpg Gothic 3 blew it out of the water.
I always wonder if people know how to read. The point of my article had nothing to do with fable being an MMORPG, it had to do with the integration of emotion and feeling into a game. I even mentioned in the post that I knew the two genres are different, but if one takes a step back to realize their similarities then we can begin to progress the MMO genre itself.
There is nothing wrong with your reading comprehension, thank you.
The things that pull "emotion" in fable 2 are possible BECAUSE it's a singleplayer game. You're the hero/villain and the entire world reacts to you. You can't do that for thousands of players in the same world.
I always wonder if people know how to read. The point of my article had nothing to do with fable being an MMORPG, it had to do with the integration of emotion and feeling into a game. I even mentioned in the post that I knew the two genres are different, but if one takes a step back to realize their similarities then we can begin to progress the MMO genre itself.
There is nothing wrong with your reading comprehension, thank you.
The things that pull "emotion" in fable 2 are possible BECAUSE it's a singleplayer game. You're the hero/villain and the entire world reacts to you. You can't do that for thousands of players in the same world.
Can't agree more with you, but is that just because that is what we were brought up to believe? Who says we can't feel loss or gain in MMO? The developers? Technology?
It is a sticky web that our entire industry, including us the gamers, can't seem to get out of. We hold on to the idea that some things just aren't possible but it's because we haven't tried to make it possible.
For example, what if you entered an entirely different world and you knew nothing about it. A new mmo, and the setting is - you don't know the setting. You are here. A forest maybe. Surrounded by trees and nothing else. There is no chat screen and no HUD, just you. Using your WASD powers, and right click and rotate abilities, you are somehow able to move and turn in the third person. This is just a minor discovery though. As you walk forward in this unknown area, you hear something shuffling from behind. It has been five whole minutes of walking and out of nowhere you hear this new sound. You turn just in time to notice someone leaping off the top of tree. The look on this person's face is maniacal. The knife he holds in his right hand is stained at the edges with blood. It's also dull, realizing you have nothing to defend yourself with, the best thing you can do is dodge this deadly human projectile and run.
Whether or not it is fear or excitement, or some other feeling that has captured you - hopefully you would feel something in a situation like this. Now imagine if both of this people were playing characters. What if you start noticing trails of blood and realize this one player has killed many, and the corpses of his victims did not just disappear into pixel heaven. Body parts may have been strewn about in different areas - even children.
Something like this is definitely programmable and it is definitely capable to do in an MMO. I could go further to describe what would happen next in this hypothetical MMORPG. I could say that the character goes deeper and deeper into a forest as he runs from this maniac and corpses only to find a symbol painted on the trunk of a large tree in blood. This is your next quest. Your reward: survival.
Which FF Character Are You?