Originally posted by Fariic In humans alone it has been determined that it can take around 10k years for us to have a genetic change. Why would anyone think that natural evolution is something that can be "observed". It can't. Arguing that evolution doesn't exist because you can't watch it happen is like saying that god doesn't exist because you can't see him. It's not an overnight process, it takes thousands of years for traits to be weeded through, the good ones kept and the bad ones and unneccesary ones disgarded. We as humans are still born with tails sometimes; when was the last time you saw a human use a tail? We still have our apendix, when was the last time we used it? Not all changes are even observable, but occur on a genetic level, and without continually testing every species of life on this planet at genetic level it would be impossible to even say that evolution isn't occuring. I don't mind religion. I like it actually. I enjoy discussing it, and am very open and receptive to other people beliefs. With one exception. Creationism is a bunch of down right LIES, MISTRUTHS, AND PROPOGANDA. Creationists spend more time trying to debunk real science then they do trying to find factual information about the garbage they spew. It's also sad that so many would so blindly be lead down the creationist road of scientific blasphemy that they don't even know were thier moronic views come from. The magority of what creationists believe was written hundreds of years ago by a guy that "disiphered" the bible. Creationisms roots have absolutely nothing to do with science or truth.
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Edit: My point was, arguing that there is life after death is the same as arguing that there is/ isn't a god. You can't prove something you can't witness, and when people can't ID a criminal 5 minutes after a crime I highly dought they could tell anyone what happend after they died. What they see is what is happening AS THEY DIE. Simply, time is distorted, you can't tell at what point things are happening within a time frame when your brain isn't even functioning properly. My grandmother saw angels and dead relatives a few days before she passed away. Morphine, when taken in high enough doses, causes halucinations. Some people on the other hand don't believe this and insist that what a dying person sees is real.
Originally posted by Fariic In humans alone it has been determined that it can take around 10k years for us to have a genetic change. Why would anyone think that natural evolution is something that can be "observed". It can't. Arguing that evolution doesn't exist because you can't watch it happen is like saying that god doesn't exist because you can't see him. It's not an overnight process, it takes thousands of years for traits to be weeded through, the good ones kept and the bad ones and unneccesary ones disgarded. We as humans are still born with tails sometimes; when was the last time you saw a human use a tail? We still have our apendix, when was the last time we used it? Not all changes are even observable, but occur on a genetic level, and without continually testing every species of life on this planet at genetic level it would be impossible to even say that evolution isn't occuring. I don't mind religion. I like it actually. I enjoy discussing it, and am very open and receptive to other people beliefs. With one exception. Creationism is a bunch of down right LIES, MISTRUTHS, AND PROPOGANDA. Creationists spend more time trying to debunk real science then they do trying to find factual information about the garbage they spew. It's also sad that so many would so blindly be lead down the creationist road of scientific blasphemy that they don't even know were thier moronic views come from. The magority of what creationists believe was written hundreds of years ago by a guy that "disiphered" the bible. Creationisms roots have absolutely nothing to do with science or truth.
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Im not going to take the time, again, explaining life outside our bodies. Read my previous posts
Originally posted by Fariic In humans alone it has been determined that it can take around 10k years for us to have a genetic change. Why would anyone think that natural evolution is something that can be "observed". It can't. Arguing that evolution doesn't exist because you can't watch it happen is like saying that god doesn't exist because you can't see him. It's not an overnight process, it takes thousands of years for traits to be weeded through, the good ones kept and the bad ones and unneccesary ones disgarded. We as humans are still born with tails sometimes; when was the last time you saw a human use a tail? We still have our apendix, when was the last time we used it? Not all changes are even observable, but occur on a genetic level, and without continually testing every species of life on this planet at genetic level it would be impossible to even say that evolution isn't occuring. I don't mind religion. I like it actually. I enjoy discussing it, and am very open and receptive to other people beliefs. With one exception. Creationism is a bunch of down right LIES, MISTRUTHS, AND PROPOGANDA. Creationists spend more time trying to debunk real science then they do trying to find factual information about the garbage they spew. It's also sad that so many would so blindly be lead down the creationist road of scientific blasphemy that they don't even know were thier moronic views come from. The magority of what creationists believe was written hundreds of years ago by a guy that "disiphered" the bible. Creationisms roots have absolutely nothing to do with science or truth.
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Im not going to take the time, again, explaining life outside our bodies. Read my previous posts
You don't have to.
I meditate as a means of stress releif every day for 20+ minutes or more. Sometimes for hours.
I believe the brain is capable of conecting with energy that exists outside the body and the the body itself is useless when the brain is fully functioning. For me though, it's not god, it's the awsomeness of the most advances and powerfull thing in the universe, our brain.
Edit: BTW you weren't talking about life outside the body when you quoted me. You said proof of life after death; for wich there is none.
Originally posted by Fariic In humans alone it has been determined that it can take around 10k years for us to have a genetic change. Why would anyone think that natural evolution is something that can be "observed". It can't. Arguing that evolution doesn't exist because you can't watch it happen is like saying that god doesn't exist because you can't see him. It's not an overnight process, it takes thousands of years for traits to be weeded through, the good ones kept and the bad ones and unneccesary ones disgarded. We as humans are still born with tails sometimes; when was the last time you saw a human use a tail? We still have our apendix, when was the last time we used it? Not all changes are even observable, but occur on a genetic level, and without continually testing every species of life on this planet at genetic level it would be impossible to even say that evolution isn't occuring. I don't mind religion. I like it actually. I enjoy discussing it, and am very open and receptive to other people beliefs. With one exception. Creationism is a bunch of down right LIES, MISTRUTHS, AND PROPOGANDA. Creationists spend more time trying to debunk real science then they do trying to find factual information about the garbage they spew. It's also sad that so many would so blindly be lead down the creationist road of scientific blasphemy that they don't even know were thier moronic views come from. The magority of what creationists believe was written hundreds of years ago by a guy that "disiphered" the bible. Creationisms roots have absolutely nothing to do with science or truth.
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Im not going to take the time, again, explaining life outside our bodies. Read my previous posts
You don't have to.
I meditate as a means of stress releif every day for 20+ minutes or more. Sometimes for hours.
I believe the brain is capable of conecting with energy that exists outside the body and the the body itself is useless when the brain is fully functioning. For me though, it's not god, it's the awsomeness of the most advances and powerfull thing in the universe, our brain.
Edit: BTW you weren't talking about life outside the body when you quoted me. You said proof of life after death; for wich there is none.
Having this experience happen to 2 immediate family members, and seeing the dramatic changes, you have to be curious
Electrodes cant be held responsible for the amazing detail each person describes their experience. Outside of their bodies they report what the doctors said, thought, and the proceedures they used in the operation. Please, for the love of God, before you try to explain these experiences... READ THEM!
Ive read hundreds of experiences, and to say that brain chemicals are responsible for converting atheists into devout priests, is beyond me.
Look at the "Scientific evidence for survival" near-death.com its the wikipedia of these experiences, hyperlinks everywhere. Or youtube near death experience
Anyone that reads these experiences will know brain chemicals are not to blame, but something truly greater. How do scientist know exactly electrodes are responsible? Do they have a person in a MRI scan when they go through a NDE? I think they would be on the operating table if they were dying. Watch any interview of someone thats had a NDE and let them tell you it was their brain.
Being unknown doesn't qualify something as divine.
If the same people see the same things then it's evidence of the same process occuring at the them time of death. It can mean that the shut down of the brain has the same effect on everyone.
When severly injured the brain releases endorphines and prevents the body from feeling pain. It's a safety mechanism to help combat shock and dibilitating pain so that we can hopefully make a logical decision that could potentially save our lives. The human brain is suseptable to trauma that can lead to life long dibilitating mental problems. A guy drove his pickup in front of a friends rig one day to committ murder/ suicide. His wife was dying of cancer. My friend had to find a new career because of the mental problems he developed dealing with the dealth of another human being. It's possible the brain provides a sence of peace and well being, a manifestation of heaven if you will, in an attempt to ease the person and prevent panick.
Feelings and emotions are proven attributes of humans. We already know that we experience them, and that we share the same emotional experiences based upon events occuring around us. Someone passes away and for the most part people experience the feeling of loss and sadness. Many people will cry, people morn. Death is the most tragic experience that man can face, his own immensly more so then others. If the loss of a loved ones life can lead people to behaive irrationally, or in a fashion that would be considered not well; then it's not hard to imagine that when truelly faced with your own mentallity the brain could respond in a very common way to it.
People that come "near" death often experience the same things. Thier life passing before thier eyes as they say. The brain manifesting a sensation in the face of an event, one that is life threatening. Time slows, you become more aware, everything is more vivid; details stand out. It's normal, it's natural for this to occur. I say this having been there, done that. I have come face to face with my own mortality and I had experiences similliar to other people. My logical conclusion.
It's the brain mainifesting a state to hopefully help you better deal with the situation at hand. It's no more divine then sweating, getting goose bumps or feeling a sence of panic before something bad happens.
Just because it's not fully understood doesn't make it divine.
Nor is it proof or disproof of a divine being or nature.
God doesn't have to promise you anything. He's already given you the most precious gift he could give.
Originally posted by Fariic In humans alone it has been determined that it can take around 10k years for us to have a genetic change. Why would anyone think that natural evolution is something that can be "observed". It can't. Arguing that evolution doesn't exist because you can't watch it happen is like saying that god doesn't exist because you can't see him. It's not an overnight process, it takes thousands of years for traits to be weeded through, the good ones kept and the bad ones and unneccesary ones disgarded. We as humans are still born with tails sometimes; when was the last time you saw a human use a tail? We still have our apendix, when was the last time we used it? Not all changes are even observable, but occur on a genetic level, and without continually testing every species of life on this planet at genetic level it would be impossible to even say that evolution isn't occuring. I don't mind religion. I like it actually. I enjoy discussing it, and am very open and receptive to other people beliefs. With one exception. Creationism is a bunch of down right LIES, MISTRUTHS, AND PROPOGANDA. Creationists spend more time trying to debunk real science then they do trying to find factual information about the garbage they spew. It's also sad that so many would so blindly be lead down the creationist road of scientific blasphemy that they don't even know were thier moronic views come from. The magority of what creationists believe was written hundreds of years ago by a guy that "disiphered" the bible. Creationisms roots have absolutely nothing to do with science or truth.
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Im not going to take the time, again, explaining life outside our bodies. Read my previous posts
You don't have to.
I meditate as a means of stress releif every day for 20+ minutes or more. Sometimes for hours.
I believe the brain is capable of conecting with energy that exists outside the body and the the body itself is useless when the brain is fully functioning. For me though, it's not god, it's the awsomeness of the most advances and powerfull thing in the universe, our brain.
Edit: BTW you weren't talking about life outside the body when you quoted me. You said proof of life after death; for wich there is none.
Having this experience happen to 2 immediate family members, and seeing the dramatic changes, you have to be curious
Electrodes cant be held responsible for the amazing detail each person describes their experience. Outside of their bodies they report what the doctors said, thought, and the proceedures they used in the operation. Please, for the love of God, before you try to explain these experiences... READ THEM!
Ive read hundreds of experiences, and to say that brain chemicals are responsible for converting atheists into devout priests, is beyond me.
Look at the "Scientific evidence for survival" near-death.com its the wikipedia of these experiences, hyperlinks everywhere. Or youtube near death experience
Anyone that reads these experiences will know brain chemicals are not to blame, but something truly greater. How do scientist know exactly electrodes are responsible? Do they have a person in a MRI scan when they go through a NDE? I think they would be on the operating table if they were dying. Watch any interview of someone thats had a NDE and let them tell you it was their brain.
They don't they use the scientific method to attempt to see what happened. Keyword here is attempt.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Xemous, Being unknown doesn't qualify something as divine.
If the same people see the same things then it's evidence of the same process occuring at the them time of death. It can mean that the shut down of the brain has the same effect on everyone. When severly injured the brain releases endorphines and prevents the body from feeling pain. It's a safety mechanism to help combat shock and dibilitating pain so that we can hopefully make a logical decision that could potentially save our lives. The human brain is suseptable to trauma that can lead to life long dibilitating mental problems. A guy drove his pickup in front of a friends rig one day to committ murder/ suicide. His wife was dying of cancer. My friend had to find a new career because of the mental problems he developed dealing with the dealth of another human being. It's possible the brain provides a sence of peace and well being, a manifestation of heaven if you will, in an attempt to ease the person and prevent panick. Feelings and emotions are proven attributes of humans. We already know that we experience them, and that we share the same emotional experiences based upon events occuring around us. Someone passes away and for the most part people experience the feeling of loss and sadness. Many people will cry, people morn. Death is the most tragic experience that man can face, his own immensly more so then others. If the loss of a loved ones life can lead people to behaive irrationally, or in a fashion that would be considered not well; then it's not hard to imagine that when truelly faced with your own mentallity the brain could respond in a very common way to it. People that come "near" death often experience the same things. Thier life passing before thier eyes as they say. The brain manifesting a sensation in the face of an event, one that is life threatening. Time slows, you become more aware, everything is more vivid; details stand out. It's normal, it's natural for this to occur. I say this having been there, done that. I have come face to face with my own mortality and I had experiences similliar to other people. My logical conclusion. It's the brain mainifesting a state to hopefully help you better deal with the situation at hand. It's no more divine then sweating, getting goose bumps or feeling a sence of panic before something bad happens. Just because it's not fully understood doesn't make it divine.
Nor is it proof or disproof of a divine being or nature. God doesn't have to promise you anything. He's already given you the most precious gift he could give.
Life.
Like I said, please, read the experiences. I know that just because its not understood doesnt make it divine. The experience being divine makes it divine. If you read them you'll understand how theres things their mind could not possibly have known without an a higher, external force.
Please for the love of God read some experiences. I always research what people throw at me, very thoroughly. All i'm asking of you is the same
Xemous, Being unknown doesn't qualify something as divine.
If the same people see the same things then it's evidence of the same process occuring at the them time of death. It can mean that the shut down of the brain has the same effect on everyone. When severly injured the brain releases endorphines and prevents the body from feeling pain. It's a safety mechanism to help combat shock and dibilitating pain so that we can hopefully make a logical decision that could potentially save our lives. The human brain is suseptable to trauma that can lead to life long dibilitating mental problems. A guy drove his pickup in front of a friends rig one day to committ murder/ suicide. His wife was dying of cancer. My friend had to find a new career because of the mental problems he developed dealing with the dealth of another human being. It's possible the brain provides a sence of peace and well being, a manifestation of heaven if you will, in an attempt to ease the person and prevent panick. Feelings and emotions are proven attributes of humans. We already know that we experience them, and that we share the same emotional experiences based upon events occuring around us. Someone passes away and for the most part people experience the feeling of loss and sadness. Many people will cry, people morn. Death is the most tragic experience that man can face, his own immensly more so then others. If the loss of a loved ones life can lead people to behaive irrationally, or in a fashion that would be considered not well; then it's not hard to imagine that when truelly faced with your own mentallity the brain could respond in a very common way to it. People that come "near" death often experience the same things. Thier life passing before thier eyes as they say. The brain manifesting a sensation in the face of an event, one that is life threatening. Time slows, you become more aware, everything is more vivid; details stand out. It's normal, it's natural for this to occur. I say this having been there, done that. I have come face to face with my own mortality and I had experiences similliar to other people. My logical conclusion. It's the brain mainifesting a state to hopefully help you better deal with the situation at hand. It's no more divine then sweating, getting goose bumps or feeling a sence of panic before something bad happens. Just because it's not fully understood doesn't make it divine.
Nor is it proof or disproof of a divine being or nature. God doesn't have to promise you anything. He's already given you the most precious gift he could give.
Life.
Like I said, please, read the experiences. I know that just because its not understood doesnt make it divine. The experience being divine makes it divine. If you read them you'll understand how theres things their mind could not possibly have known without an a higher, external force.
Please for the love of God read some experiences. I always research what people throw at me, very thoroughly. All i'm asking of you is the same
I don't need to read them. I've read them dozens over throughout many years. I've talked to people personally that have had near death and death experiences.
I've read scientific journals about this stuff.
I try very hard not to pull things out of my butt.
Religion, philosophy, physics and quantum physics are things I have HUGE interests in.
I've read a few bibles. King james and the non king james version, the Mormon dull fest, a good portion of the koran.
I read everything I can about ancient history. Civilizations and they way they arise is interesting to me.
I have read books apon books about the occult, and super natural.
I have talked to people that really believe thier homes are haunted, or think they have seen ghosts.
I believe in things like ESP, but don't believe the con artists you see on T.V. or the one down the road from you that does palm readings.
I really believe that the human brain, when fully functional, doesn't need the body. I believe that the brain has the ability to manipulate reality around us.
The highlighted part is a very good example of blind faith, and pure denial.
I never say that the potential for divinity doesn't exist, just that I don't believe it does. You make the assumption that it's divine and therefore it's divine. I gave 2 possiblities outside of divinity, and you simply dismis it and say divine. Either of my examples can be proven or disproven at some point, divinity can not.
You can not argue that something is because it is. Grass isn't green because it's green, there is a REASON for it being green. You can't call something divine because it's divine, give a reason that it is. You can't really though. In order to you have to be able to prove that god is real, and you can't prove he is any more then any athiest can prove he isn't.
You're talking about faith.
I'm talking about science.
Edit: BTW, I've already read around on that site, long before you ever posted it.
I can explain every case away with a single question.
Do you believe that people can lie, or be confused?
Edit again: I thought about letting this one go, but changed my mind. The site you linked is run by an evangelist. You don't really want to get me going on brainwashing, it's methods, and how that relates to evangelists. Just to note that the sites intent is to convert people to evangelism, as you would clearly see if you read who operated the site ( it's made clear the intent of the site), through NDE testimonials, wish the creator of the site determined is "the truth".
Another edit: If people aren't aware, now this may not go for every evangelist, but the predominant evangelical church or whatever they are, believes that we should learn from islamic extremists. Children should be brought up and instilled with the same passion for god and jesus that they would, if needed, strap a bomb to themself and blow stuff up. That is not bullshit, I do not make this up, the largest evangelical group in the U.S. is proud and open about this belief and they run camps all across america specifically for the purpose of converting children. They just don't go door to door like jehova's witnesses do. There is a scarely large segment of evangelists who believe that "white america" needs to start instilling our children with this kind of faith.
If anyone is an evangelist I apologize if I've offended. May not be your group or church, or they may not talk to you directly about this stuff. I swear on all that is, I do not make this up. They are really out there.
Xemous, Being unknown doesn't qualify something as divine.
If the same people see the same things then it's evidence of the same process occuring at the them time of death. It can mean that the shut down of the brain has the same effect on everyone. When severly injured the brain releases endorphines and prevents the body from feeling pain. It's a safety mechanism to help combat shock and dibilitating pain so that we can hopefully make a logical decision that could potentially save our lives. The human brain is suseptable to trauma that can lead to life long dibilitating mental problems. A guy drove his pickup in front of a friends rig one day to committ murder/ suicide. His wife was dying of cancer. My friend had to find a new career because of the mental problems he developed dealing with the dealth of another human being. It's possible the brain provides a sence of peace and well being, a manifestation of heaven if you will, in an attempt to ease the person and prevent panick. Feelings and emotions are proven attributes of humans. We already know that we experience them, and that we share the same emotional experiences based upon events occuring around us. Someone passes away and for the most part people experience the feeling of loss and sadness. Many people will cry, people morn. Death is the most tragic experience that man can face, his own immensly more so then others. If the loss of a loved ones life can lead people to behaive irrationally, or in a fashion that would be considered not well; then it's not hard to imagine that when truelly faced with your own mentallity the brain could respond in a very common way to it. People that come "near" death often experience the same things. Thier life passing before thier eyes as they say. The brain manifesting a sensation in the face of an event, one that is life threatening. Time slows, you become more aware, everything is more vivid; details stand out. It's normal, it's natural for this to occur. I say this having been there, done that. I have come face to face with my own mortality and I had experiences similliar to other people. My logical conclusion. It's the brain mainifesting a state to hopefully help you better deal with the situation at hand. It's no more divine then sweating, getting goose bumps or feeling a sence of panic before something bad happens. Just because it's not fully understood doesn't make it divine.
Nor is it proof or disproof of a divine being or nature. God doesn't have to promise you anything. He's already given you the most precious gift he could give.
Life.
Like I said, please, read the experiences. I know that just because its not understood doesnt make it divine. The experience being divine makes it divine. If you read them you'll understand how theres things their mind could not possibly have known without an a higher, external force.
Please for the love of God read some experiences. I always research what people throw at me, very thoroughly. All i'm asking of you is the same
I don't need to read them. I've read them dozens over throughout many years. I've talked to people personally that have had near death and death experiences.
I've read scientific journals about this stuff.
I try very hard not to pull things out of my butt.
Religion, philosophy, physics and quantum physics are things I have HUGE interests in.
I've read a few bibles. King james and the non king james version, the Mormon dull fest, a good portion of the koran.
I read everything I can about ancient history. Civilizations and they way they arise is interesting to me.
I have read books apon books about the occult, and super natural.
I have talked to people that really believe thier homes are haunted, or think they have seen ghosts.
I believe in things like ESP, but don't believe the con artists you see on T.V. or the one down the road from you that does palm readings.
I really believe that the human brain, when fully functional, doesn't need the body. I believe that the brain has the ability to manipulate reality around us.
The highlighted part is a very good example of blind faith, and pure denial.
I never say that the potential for divinity doesn't exist, just that I don't believe it does. You make the assumption that it's divine and therefore it's divine. I gave 2 possiblities outside of divinity, and you simply dismis it and say divine. Either of my examples can be proven or disproven at some point, divinity can not.
You can not argue that something is because it is. Grass isn't green because it's green, there is a REASON for it being green. You can't call something divine because it's divine, give a reason that it is. You can't really though. In order to you have to be able to prove that god is real, and you can't prove he is any more then any athiest can prove he isn't.
You're talking about faith.
I'm talking about science.
Edit: BTW, I've already read around on that site, long before you ever posted it.
I can explain every case away with a single question.
Do you believe that people can lie, or be confused?
Edit again: I thought about letting this one go, but changed my mind. The site you linked is run by an evangelist. You don't really want to get me going on brainwashing, it's methods, and how that relates to evangelists. Just to note that the sites intent is to convert people to evangelism, as you would clearly see if you read who operated the site ( it's made clear the intent of the site), through NDE testimonials, wish the creator of the site determined is "the truth".
Another edit: If people aren't aware, now this may not go for every evangelist, but the predominant evangelical church or whatever they are, believes that we should learn from islamic extremists. Children should be brought up and instilled with the same passion for god and jesus that they would, if needed, strap a bomb to themself and blow stuff up. That is not bullshit, I do not make this up, the largest evangelical group in the U.S. is proud and open about this belief and they run camps all across america specifically for the purpose of converting children. They just don't go door to door like jehova's witnesses do. There is a scarely large segment of evangelists who believe that "white america" needs to start instilling our children with this kind of faith.
If anyone is an evangelist I apologize if I've offended. May not be your group or church, or they may not talk to you directly about this stuff. I swear on all that is, I do not make this up. They are really out there.
Then you must be my evil twin. If you have interests in these subjects then you know the quantum weirdness that goes on all around us. The vibrating quarks that "tune" or universe in to a certain frequency. Even the roots of major religions.
I was brought up with Jesus nailed in my head. It took real knowledge of the origin of major religions to shatter my belief.
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things -Rene Desecrates.
Thats what freed me from cherry picking. I accurately weighed our information because all i saught was truth. And you cant dismiss some information in the air because there is a "possible" explanation. When the participants disagree.
You know NDE's are what sparked my interest in physics. After reading experiences of people gaining knowledge about the quantum world, i wanted to see further. And its amazing the extent, the fabrication of the multiverse goes. I guess we can interpret this differently though, and we will never convince one another.
let this thread die, there will be a new one in a few days anyways
In order for something to evolve it must meet certain criteria
It must undergo a beneficial genetic mutation and survive, this mutation must add new information into the genetic sequence that was not present before, IE a reptile does not have the genetic information in its DNA to grow feathers. Actually they do. Birds may be relatives to flying dinosaurs, and scientist are finding that feathers were common on many dinosaurs. T-rex is believed to have had feathers as well. Humans have the genetic material that allows us to continue to develope uselss parts that that are present in other animals, including reptiles. Like the muscles that would control a membrane much like the side ways eyelids on reptiles and a bone in the chest that is present in reptiles and in a few humans. Show me one picture of a T-rex fossil with feathers. The feather idea is a myth perpetuated by evolutionists using various small anamolies on certain fossils...Things like the pores from which feathers grow (I can't remember what they are called) As for fossils like Archaopteryx...The creationist answer? it's just a damn bird that's extinct now...Just because it happens to have some reptilian characteristics doesn't mean that it came from Dinosaurs...show me the transition fossils between Archaopteryx and the other Dinosaurs, an animal doesn't just jump from Lizzard to fully feathered bird in one generation, even under evolutionary principals it would take thousands of years. There are plenty of living birds now that look positively ancient..it doesn't mean that they used to be Dinosaurs.
Also, mutations can cause entirely new beneficial traits. Things that weren't once apart of the DNA sequence can become a part of it through mutation, such as can be caused from exposure to UV light. This is simply untrue. New information has never been observed to result from a beneficial mutation. Even Richard Dawkins admits to this in one of his books, of course, he then goes on to try and explain why it's not a fair argument...But he says it nontheless. Then you have things like size, weight, and color that can be effected through enviroment alone and require no mutation. Evolution doesn't have to be a wholey new sequence, but a change in the sequence. You alter one little thing in the chain and you can get something drastically dif. Size, weight, and color have nothing to do with macroevolution, they are examples of microevolution and adaptation, things that I don't dispute. Also, as you get into more and more complex life forms your simply talking about more sequences. It's like code, it started out basic and eventually evolved into c++. Great apes and Humans are a perfect example, we share very simillar DNA. Evolutionists like to talk about this similiarity, what they DON'T tell you is that the %age difference between the DNA gap of humans and apes accounts for thousands upon thousands of mutations...If there are thousands and thousands of mutations required that would have brought in new genetic information to transform a monkey to a man, and if man is a relatively new species on an evolutionary timeline...Don't you think that WE would haev observed at least one example of new information? And we haven't...I mostly wrote that last part to address your post at the bottom about how it's not even a big deal that we haven't actually observed evolution (I'm not sure why you tried to make this argument anyway though, since earlier in this very post you wrote that we have observed such changes...I think maybe you're talking out of your ass) I believe that most of the DNA found in a person can be found in all other forms of life, it's just complied dif. with added code and resulting in dif forms of life. You will not find the DNA in a fish to make fingernails, you won't find DNA in birds to grow human hair...I could go on and on about the thigns that you would never find...What you WILL find in animals is that dogs share almost all of their DNA and only some dogs have less than others as a result of adaptation and speciation. This goes into a concept called a promethian species and is fully supported by a creationist model. The problem is that there are other kinds of mutations, neutral and deterimental (harmful) and these mutations make up about 99.8% of all mutations that occur...These mutations are not evolution because in one case they kill the organism (harmful) and in the other, they do nothing at all (a five legged frog is not an example of evolution because that fifth leg does not serve a purpose and only really hinders the frog) The .2% of mutations that are beneficial are the things that we see like in the moths, where genetic active sequences of DNA are shifted around for the animal to "adapt". This is not a principal that creationists argue against, we KNOW that animals adapt in order to change to their environment, this is not up for debate. What is up for debate is whether or not these gradual changes will ever result in a completely new species; things like dinosaurs turning into birds over millions of years are what creationists dispute. Mutation is just another word for saying something changed spontaniously without control. One of the things I wish that creationists would start considering is that there is no real thing as a "completely new" species. Its variations of preexisting ones. Creationists don't dispute this...It doesn't change the argument. As I have said many times now, creationists don't dispute genetic variability and adaptation...These are things that create new forms of existing species, it's when an evolutionist starts talking about apes turning into humans, and dinosaurs turning into birds, that we differ, as these are, like you said, completely different species...You pretty much just contradicted yourself here. Canines exist as a multitude of species, but they all share common geneiology with the wolf. Look at the geographical variety that exists in humans. Everything from size, to hair and skin color, and right down to bone stucture is dif. depending on the enviroment our ancestors spent thier time in. We are not dif. species just because we can look drastically dif. and the same can be said for animals that evolved from prehistoric species. Just because they don't look the same doesn't mean they're not releated. What you are talking about is genetic variability...Which I will say once again, I do not dispute. None of this, however, has been proven to lead to the evolution of a species beyond varying types of the same animal. Less then 1% of humans are born with a bone that is found in reptiles. We retained the muscles on the sides of our eyes, even though we don't use them, that once worked a membrane like eyelid, same one found in reptiles. Most evolutionists would agree that dinosaurs are not the anscenstors of humans, only that they both had a common anscestor somewhere even further back, humans more likely came from a mammal species that existed during the time of the dinosaurs...Even so, what you are saying would imply a common anscestor millions of years ago, such a genetic anomoly, if it DID remain in our DNA, would be so rare that it would be all but indetectable, the percentage of humans with this anomoly would be so miniscule from the sheer amount of time that I doubt that anybody would ever even have observed this if it were a result of evolution. What if we stopped thinking about evolution as the developement of completely new species of animals and started calling it what it is. The modification of pre-existing ones. They change enough that they can be considered entirely dif. even though they share a common lineage. If it were a modification of existing species, and only a modification, then we would agree, but that is not what evolution is. A Dinosaur is a different animal from a bird, the bird was supposedly a "new" species. The argument would be that the transitions between dinosaurs and birds would be so numerous that the gene pool would be too different for them to mate any longer...So show me the transition fossils between Dinosaurs and birds...you won't find them because they aren't there. This is such a pivotal cornerstone of evolution, yet there is no observable evidence for it outside of some fossil anomolies where a dinosaur has the pores from which feathers grow...if the only transition between the raptor and the condor were pores for feathers, then the change would be impossibly rapid and dramatic. In 100% of the beneficial mutations that have been observed, there has been no new information in any animal's DNA, that is: No instance of a reptile having feathered offspring has been observed, no fish has ever been observed to have a blow hole instead of gills, etc. This is the biggest problem that one can point to with evolution, because it renders evolution, under all observed evidence: impossible. Except that we can force change, and change is evolution. Change, in and of itself...is not evolution. A change from one thing to another (apes to men, whales to cows, dinosaurs to birds) is evolution. Then we have the issue of life being present for millions upon millions of years on a planet that has remained relatively stable and seeing little drastic change. Enviroments have basically remained the same with the small exception of man effing them up, and this can have a lot to do with a lack of observable changes in species. This is untrue even from an evolutionary standpoint...Go look up something called the mass extinction and tell me that this planet has existed without very much drastic change. I do not believe that evolution, or natural selection is a never ending process, but more like a balancing process. As life grows and expands, as it comes into contact with other life and as enviroments take drastic changes evolution kicks in. What happens when everything has adapted to it's enviroment? Why would evolution need to continue? I think this is something that has to be considered. So everything is perfectly adapted now and that's why evolution hasn't been observed? This is a cop out, even Richard Dawkins would laugh at this.
In humans alone it has been determined that it can take around 10k years for us to have a genetic change. Why would anyone think that natural evolution is something that can be "observed". It can't. Arguing that evolution doesn't exist because you can't watch it happen is like saying that god doesn't exist because you can't see him. It's not an overnight process, it takes thousands of years for traits to be weeded through, the good ones kept and the bad ones and unneccesary ones disgarded. We as humans are still born with tails sometimes; when was the last time you saw a human use a tail? We still have our apendix, when was the last time we used it? Not all changes are even observable, but occur on a genetic level, and without continually testing every species of life on this planet at genetic level it would be impossible to even say that evolution isn't occuring.
if it took ten thousand years for a single genetic change, then that would leave room for only a couple of dozen changes from apes to men on an evolutionist timeline of the Earth...Are you suggesting that the difference between men and apes are only a few dozen changes? Because like I said earlier in my post, the couple of % that differenciates us from apes accounts for thousands upon thousands of changes.
I don't mind religion. I like it actually. I enjoy discussing it, and am very open and receptive to other people beliefs. With one exception.
Creationism is a bunch of down right LIES, MISTRUTHS, AND PROPOGANDA. Creationists spend more time trying to debunk real science then they do trying to find factual information about the garbage they spew. It's also sad that so many would so blindly be lead down the creationist road of scientific blasphemy that they don't even know were thier moronic views come from. The magority of what creationists believe was written hundreds of years ago by a guy that "disiphered" the bible. Creationisms roots have absolutely nothing to do with science or truth.
I could say the same thing about evolution...do you know how misleading science text books are when it comes to evolution? Let's talk about Lucy...who is depicted in modern science books as basically a man with hair all over his body (Lucy was, in fact, male, and named only for the song Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds) Lucy was actually founds with ape hips, toes, and hands...but later had his skeleton resculpted by a 'scientist" because he said that they had been compressed...First of all, what are the odds that they would be perfectly compressed to resemble an ape's? Second of all...how the hell does he know that? The answer? He didn't...it's just that there was too much about Lucy that didn't resemble a human, and it couldn't be considered a good transition fossil because of that, so they changed it. This is a lie of evolution that nobody talks about...You want to talk about how people have been mislead regarding evolution? I could go on and on.
Edit: The guy I mentioned earlier will one day save billions of lives if not the planet itself. Some folks feel he shouldn't be doing what he's doing because what he will do is create new life and those people feel that that is not mans right, but gods. What it is is a deep rooted fear that this guy may do something that puts thier faith into question. If god is the only being that create life then what the hell is going on when a man can do the same thing.
Second edit: I would personally rather see man become the master of our universe as aposed to remaining a slave to faith.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I believe it is much longer then just 10k years. I don't have the book with me but how ever old lucy is there is only about 5-6 beneficial mutations between him and modern humans.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I believe it is much longer then just 10k years. I don't have the book with me but how ever old lucy is there is only about 5-6 beneficial mutations between him and modern humans.
Beneficial mutations, or significant differences?
His hips are completely Ape-like
His fingers and toes are completely ape-like
his skull is completely ape-like
There are more than three mutations involved in changes this drastic...Whoever told you that you could go from a quadraped that walks on all fours to walking on only two feet in one mutation, lied to you.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
A person can have any beliefs they want so yes you can have a genius who believes the bible and science equally. Humans dont have to dictate there beliefs by logic or any factor for that matter. It doesnt make that person right. He still can though. End of discussion thread closed
I remember the first time I found out that there were other religions in the world. When I was little I just assumed the whole world (Chinese, Middle Easterners, Russians, Japanese, etc) all were just naturally Christians.
When I found out it was so strange it made me feel like my whole little world was upside down. My family was big into their southern Baptist church. We went there all the time and that's pretty much all I hung around with were the church kids from there.
I asked my parents about it and they told me that the other religions were all wrong about God and Jesus. I remembered that they had told me for a long time that as long as I asked Jesus for forgiveness I would go to Heaven someday. So I asked them where the people who didn't believe in Jesus (that I had just found out about no doubt) went. My dad told me that they were all going to hell.
A few years later I was around middle school age and met this boy who was an immigrant from India. I still remember his name, Eshvar, strange huh? Anyways, he told me that he was a Hindu. I asked him if he believed in Jesus and he told me no. That night I asked my dad how come Eshvar had to go to hell and he told me he won't if I convince him to believe in Jesus.
So the next day I went to school and told Eshvar he was going to hell unless he believed in Jesus. He called me a liar and I got mad at him for saying that. How could I be lying when my parents told me it was true and there were so many other Christians in our classroom. Obviously he was outnumbered.
The next day his parents had called the school and asked that either the school have a talk with me and him together about different cultures, or keep us separated. The school called my parents and they chose to keep us separated because they did not want me to learn anything other than what they had taught me.
That wasn't too long ago.
Eventually, later on in the years Eshvar and I did become friends. I began to question my parents too. And I'm glad I did.
A lot of what they had told me did not make sense. And I would never believe that Eshvar is going to hell for being a Hindu.
That's one of the things that I find a problem with in Christianity. I call myself a Christian, but it troubles me to hear people say others are going to hell for being born in a different culture than them.
I think that through things like Science, and History, and other lessons and discoveries that broaden our knowledge, we can find a way to make ancient texts make more sense. I think it is okay to question some texts when they don't match up to what we learn as true today. I even think it's okay to accept that our own cultures change and don't exactly fit what the ancients used to do.
Originally posted by Xemous Give me one example of contradicting evidence against God. One example Dumb chart. Try using the scientific method to prove colors exist to a colorblind person. Just because he cant see it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist
2. colours... mortal humans do NOT see "colors" they percieve reflected wavelengths sans (without) those that are absorbed by the reflecting body. 2.a. humans "see" only an extremely limited span of the electromagnetic spectrum (EMS) ultra violet/300 to 800nm/infra red. 2.b. The VAST majority of the EMS is unrecognized by humans. ?Just because humans do "not see" it, does that ALSO mean it is not there?! Humans can detect about 20% of the 'known universe' does that mean the other 80% can be ignored?!
1. 'evidence against G'... vatican sex crimes against children coverup "A secret document which sets out a procedure for dealing with child sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church" (rcc) "is examined by Panorama. Crimen Sollicitationis was enforced for 20 years by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became the Pope.
It instructs bishops on how to deal with allegations of child abuse against priests and has been seen by few outsiders.
Critics say the document has been used to evade prosecution for sex crimes.
It imposes an oath of secrecy on the child victim, the priest dealing with the allegation and any witnesses.
Breaking that oath means excommunication from the Catholic Church."
39 min video todate the rcc has payed out over us$4,000,000,000 hush money in the US, world wide total payment is not revealed.
... edit PS, fyi Christ's name was ?????????? Yehoshua (Joshua) the jesus scam is a continuation of the fraud perpetuated by the rcc (never, in his mortal life was Christ called jesus)... a collaboration in saul's apostolic church (salvation ONLY through faith and grace WHILE ignoring that jewish Law/TaNaKh.) If one ignores that much of the new testament (nt) is a 'cherry-picked' collection of anonymous books, examination reveals that over 2/3s of the nt is of saul and his disciples replacing ACTUAL teachings of Christ... two thousand years later "christians" can NOT even distinguish between saul's dogma (dogma is where 'faith' has to be ENFORCED) and verbatim words of Christ. But if one can not even get His Name right, what difference does it make one also gets Christ's bona fide Teachings wrong!
Yup dinosaurs in the Bible are referred to as behemoths and leviathans.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Give me one example of contradicting evidence against God. One example
Dumb chart. Try using the scientific method to prove colors exist to a colorblind person. Just because he cant see it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist
2. colours... mortal humans do NOT see "colors" they percieve reflected wavelengths sans (without) those that are absorbed by the reflecting body.
2.a. humans "see" only an extremely limited span of the electromagnetic spectrum (EMS) ultra violet/300 to 800nm/infra red.
2.b. The VAST majority of the EMS is unrecognized by humans. ?Just because humans do "not see" it, does that ALSO mean it is not there?! Humans can detect about 20% of the 'known universe' does that mean the other 80% can be ignored?!
1. 'evidence against G'...
vatican sex crimes against children coverup
"A secret document which sets out a procedure for dealing with child sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church" (rcc) "is examined by Panorama.
Crimen Sollicitationis was enforced for 20 years by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became the Pope.
It instructs bishops on how to deal with allegations of child abuse against priests and has been seen by few outsiders.
Critics say the document has been used to evade prosecution for sex crimes.
It imposes an oath of secrecy on the child victim, the priest dealing with the allegation and any witnesses.
Breaking that oath means excommunication from the Catholic Church."
PS, fyi Christ's name was ?????????? Yehoshua (Joshua) the jesus scam is a continuation of the fraud perpetuated by the rcc (never, in his mortal life was Christ called jesus)... a collaboration in saul's apostolic church (salvation ONLY through faith and grace WHILE ignoring that jewish Law/TaNaKh.) If one ignores that much of the new testament (nt) is a 'cherry-picked' collection of anonymous books, examination reveals that over 2/3s of the nt is of saul and his disciples replacing ACTUAL teachings of Christ... two thousand years later "christians" can NOT even distinguish between saul's dogma (dogma is where 'faith' has to be ENFORCED) and verbatim words of Christ.
But if one can not even get His Name right, what difference does it make one also gets Christ's bona fide Teachings wrong!
?????????? = this web site blocks hebrew script.
My point was, you cant use the scientific method to prove something that is true. Colors to a colorblind person. I don't care about wavelength and i know we only see a fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum but that has nothing to do with my point.
Since when did human actions have anything to do with God???? You are misled because you think religion is the only view of God.
I believe it is much longer then just 10k years. I don't have the book with me but how ever old lucy is there is only about 5-6 beneficial mutations between him and modern humans.
Beneficial mutations, or significant differences?
His hips are completely Ape-like
His fingers and toes are completely ape-like
his skull is completely ape-like
There are more than three mutations involved in changes this drastic...Whoever told you that you could go from a quadraped that walks on all fours to walking on only two feet in one mutation, lied to you.
Sorry used the wrong wording. Speices chaning mutations is what I meant.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
So let me get this strait. If a mean ass SOB gets saved and really turns his life around becomes a new person.we can credit this to a chemical reaction in the brain. =♦=
I'm not following the giant spider picture reference to the post...
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Comments
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Edit: My point was, arguing that there is life after death is the same as arguing that there is/ isn't a god. You can't prove something you can't witness, and when people can't ID a criminal 5 minutes after a crime I highly dought they could tell anyone what happend after they died. What they see is what is happening AS THEY DIE. Simply, time is distorted, you can't tell at what point things are happening within a time frame when your brain isn't even functioning properly. My grandmother saw angels and dead relatives a few days before she passed away. Morphine, when taken in high enough doses, causes halucinations. Some people on the other hand don't believe this and insist that what a dying person sees is real.
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Im not going to take the time, again, explaining life outside our bodies. Read my previous posts
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Im not going to take the time, again, explaining life outside our bodies. Read my previous posts
You don't have to.
I meditate as a means of stress releif every day for 20+ minutes or more. Sometimes for hours.
I believe the brain is capable of conecting with energy that exists outside the body and the the body itself is useless when the brain is fully functioning. For me though, it's not god, it's the awsomeness of the most advances and powerfull thing in the universe, our brain.
Edit: BTW you weren't talking about life outside the body when you quoted me. You said proof of life after death; for wich there is none.
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Im not going to take the time, again, explaining life outside our bodies. Read my previous posts
You don't have to.
I meditate as a means of stress releif every day for 20+ minutes or more. Sometimes for hours.
I believe the brain is capable of conecting with energy that exists outside the body and the the body itself is useless when the brain is fully functioning. For me though, it's not god, it's the awsomeness of the most advances and powerfull thing in the universe, our brain.
Edit: BTW you weren't talking about life outside the body when you quoted me. You said proof of life after death; for wich there is none.
near-death.com
Having this experience happen to 2 immediate family members, and seeing the dramatic changes, you have to be curious
Electrodes cant be held responsible for the amazing detail each person describes their experience. Outside of their bodies they report what the doctors said, thought, and the proceedures they used in the operation. Please, for the love of God, before you try to explain these experiences... READ THEM!
Ive read hundreds of experiences, and to say that brain chemicals are responsible for converting atheists into devout priests, is beyond me.
Look at the "Scientific evidence for survival" near-death.com its the wikipedia of these experiences, hyperlinks everywhere. Or youtube near death experience
Anyone that reads these experiences will know brain chemicals are not to blame, but something truly greater. How do scientist know exactly electrodes are responsible? Do they have a person in a MRI scan when they go through a NDE? I think they would be on the operating table if they were dying. Watch any interview of someone thats had a NDE and let them tell you it was their brain.
Xemous,
Being unknown doesn't qualify something as divine.
If the same people see the same things then it's evidence of the same process occuring at the them time of death. It can mean that the shut down of the brain has the same effect on everyone.
When severly injured the brain releases endorphines and prevents the body from feeling pain. It's a safety mechanism to help combat shock and dibilitating pain so that we can hopefully make a logical decision that could potentially save our lives. The human brain is suseptable to trauma that can lead to life long dibilitating mental problems. A guy drove his pickup in front of a friends rig one day to committ murder/ suicide. His wife was dying of cancer. My friend had to find a new career because of the mental problems he developed dealing with the dealth of another human being. It's possible the brain provides a sence of peace and well being, a manifestation of heaven if you will, in an attempt to ease the person and prevent panick.
Feelings and emotions are proven attributes of humans. We already know that we experience them, and that we share the same emotional experiences based upon events occuring around us. Someone passes away and for the most part people experience the feeling of loss and sadness. Many people will cry, people morn. Death is the most tragic experience that man can face, his own immensly more so then others. If the loss of a loved ones life can lead people to behaive irrationally, or in a fashion that would be considered not well; then it's not hard to imagine that when truelly faced with your own mentallity the brain could respond in a very common way to it.
People that come "near" death often experience the same things. Thier life passing before thier eyes as they say. The brain manifesting a sensation in the face of an event, one that is life threatening. Time slows, you become more aware, everything is more vivid; details stand out. It's normal, it's natural for this to occur. I say this having been there, done that. I have come face to face with my own mortality and I had experiences similliar to other people. My logical conclusion.
It's the brain mainifesting a state to hopefully help you better deal with the situation at hand. It's no more divine then sweating, getting goose bumps or feeling a sence of panic before something bad happens.
Just because it's not fully understood doesn't make it divine.
Nor is it proof or disproof of a divine being or nature.
God doesn't have to promise you anything. He's already given you the most precious gift he could give.
Life.
Yes. Thats because of dogma. Most religious texts are primitive descriptions of a higher power. I disagree with this.
Just because the dogma is false, doesn't mean the idea is. Theres plenty that points to life after death, and life outside our physical body. God is a being full and complete in knowledge, what makes you think we can comprehend his actions? Or the way he works? With the weirdness of the quantum world anything is possible.
Keep in mind that the phrase "god doesn't exist" has never come from me. To be exact what I say is "I don't believe in the existance of god." Never would I say that someone is wrong for thier belief however. I discus religion and philosophy on a rather regular basis with people I know personally, and I have to beleive that if I was constantly telling them they were wrong I wouldn't be much fun to talk to, and they would stop.
Just before death the brain experiences a momentary increase in brain function. Basically just before you die the electricity starts shooting all over the place. This has been attributed to the white light phenomenom. People placed in a deprevation chamber have also experienced the same thing.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that points to life after death outside of what some people want to believe. Life after death stems from a deep rooted desire to believe that life isn't meaningless. It can be difficult to believe that we can be born, spend our time on this earth and then simply die. That our life means very little outside of the impact it may have on others. Death is also like the universe. It's there, we see it, and therefore we have to have an understanding of it. So we try to rationalize it the best we can. Life after death is also a propoganda tool. Someone pointed it out earlier that religions spring up when people are most in need. The jews in egypt, the christians in Rome. People in need of salvation, in need of easy the burdon of a hard life. You're poor, down trodden, opressed, enslaved, it can be much easier to deal with the harshness of reality when you have a great beyond to look forward to. Religious terrorists use life after death to rationalize killing themselves in the name of god. It's not suicide if you are killing heretics and non believers and there for you will be rewarded with all god has to offer in heaven.
Just because you can believe in life after death doesn't make it true. After all, I can believe in magic, doesn't mean I, or anyone else can do it.
Im not going to take the time, again, explaining life outside our bodies. Read my previous posts
You don't have to.
I meditate as a means of stress releif every day for 20+ minutes or more. Sometimes for hours.
I believe the brain is capable of conecting with energy that exists outside the body and the the body itself is useless when the brain is fully functioning. For me though, it's not god, it's the awsomeness of the most advances and powerfull thing in the universe, our brain.
Edit: BTW you weren't talking about life outside the body when you quoted me. You said proof of life after death; for wich there is none.
near-death.com
Having this experience happen to 2 immediate family members, and seeing the dramatic changes, you have to be curious
Electrodes cant be held responsible for the amazing detail each person describes their experience. Outside of their bodies they report what the doctors said, thought, and the proceedures they used in the operation. Please, for the love of God, before you try to explain these experiences... READ THEM!
Ive read hundreds of experiences, and to say that brain chemicals are responsible for converting atheists into devout priests, is beyond me.
Look at the "Scientific evidence for survival" near-death.com its the wikipedia of these experiences, hyperlinks everywhere. Or youtube near death experience
Anyone that reads these experiences will know brain chemicals are not to blame, but something truly greater. How do scientist know exactly electrodes are responsible? Do they have a person in a MRI scan when they go through a NDE? I think they would be on the operating table if they were dying. Watch any interview of someone thats had a NDE and let them tell you it was their brain.
They don't they use the scientific method to attempt to see what happened. Keyword here is attempt.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Like I said, please, read the experiences. I know that just because its not understood doesnt make it divine. The experience being divine makes it divine. If you read them you'll understand how theres things their mind could not possibly have known without an a higher, external force.
Please for the love of God read some experiences. I always research what people throw at me, very thoroughly. All i'm asking of you is the same
Like I said, please, read the experiences. I know that just because its not understood doesnt make it divine. The experience being divine makes it divine. If you read them you'll understand how theres things their mind could not possibly have known without an a higher, external force.
Please for the love of God read some experiences. I always research what people throw at me, very thoroughly. All i'm asking of you is the same
I don't need to read them. I've read them dozens over throughout many years. I've talked to people personally that have had near death and death experiences.
I've read scientific journals about this stuff.
I try very hard not to pull things out of my butt.
Religion, philosophy, physics and quantum physics are things I have HUGE interests in.
I've read a few bibles. King james and the non king james version, the Mormon dull fest, a good portion of the koran.
I read everything I can about ancient history. Civilizations and they way they arise is interesting to me.
I have read books apon books about the occult, and super natural.
I have talked to people that really believe thier homes are haunted, or think they have seen ghosts.
I believe in things like ESP, but don't believe the con artists you see on T.V. or the one down the road from you that does palm readings.
I really believe that the human brain, when fully functional, doesn't need the body. I believe that the brain has the ability to manipulate reality around us.
The highlighted part is a very good example of blind faith, and pure denial.
I never say that the potential for divinity doesn't exist, just that I don't believe it does. You make the assumption that it's divine and therefore it's divine. I gave 2 possiblities outside of divinity, and you simply dismis it and say divine. Either of my examples can be proven or disproven at some point, divinity can not.
You can not argue that something is because it is. Grass isn't green because it's green, there is a REASON for it being green. You can't call something divine because it's divine, give a reason that it is. You can't really though. In order to you have to be able to prove that god is real, and you can't prove he is any more then any athiest can prove he isn't.
You're talking about faith.
I'm talking about science.
Edit: BTW, I've already read around on that site, long before you ever posted it.
I can explain every case away with a single question.
Do you believe that people can lie, or be confused?
Edit again: I thought about letting this one go, but changed my mind. The site you linked is run by an evangelist. You don't really want to get me going on brainwashing, it's methods, and how that relates to evangelists. Just to note that the sites intent is to convert people to evangelism, as you would clearly see if you read who operated the site ( it's made clear the intent of the site), through NDE testimonials, wish the creator of the site determined is "the truth".
Another edit: If people aren't aware, now this may not go for every evangelist, but the predominant evangelical church or whatever they are, believes that we should learn from islamic extremists. Children should be brought up and instilled with the same passion for god and jesus that they would, if needed, strap a bomb to themself and blow stuff up. That is not bullshit, I do not make this up, the largest evangelical group in the U.S. is proud and open about this belief and they run camps all across america specifically for the purpose of converting children. They just don't go door to door like jehova's witnesses do. There is a scarely large segment of evangelists who believe that "white america" needs to start instilling our children with this kind of faith.
If anyone is an evangelist I apologize if I've offended. May not be your group or church, or they may not talk to you directly about this stuff. I swear on all that is, I do not make this up. They are really out there.
Like I said, please, read the experiences. I know that just because its not understood doesnt make it divine. The experience being divine makes it divine. If you read them you'll understand how theres things their mind could not possibly have known without an a higher, external force.
Please for the love of God read some experiences. I always research what people throw at me, very thoroughly. All i'm asking of you is the same
I don't need to read them. I've read them dozens over throughout many years. I've talked to people personally that have had near death and death experiences.
I've read scientific journals about this stuff.
I try very hard not to pull things out of my butt.
Religion, philosophy, physics and quantum physics are things I have HUGE interests in.
I've read a few bibles. King james and the non king james version, the Mormon dull fest, a good portion of the koran.
I read everything I can about ancient history. Civilizations and they way they arise is interesting to me.
I have read books apon books about the occult, and super natural.
I have talked to people that really believe thier homes are haunted, or think they have seen ghosts.
I believe in things like ESP, but don't believe the con artists you see on T.V. or the one down the road from you that does palm readings.
I really believe that the human brain, when fully functional, doesn't need the body. I believe that the brain has the ability to manipulate reality around us.
The highlighted part is a very good example of blind faith, and pure denial.
I never say that the potential for divinity doesn't exist, just that I don't believe it does. You make the assumption that it's divine and therefore it's divine. I gave 2 possiblities outside of divinity, and you simply dismis it and say divine. Either of my examples can be proven or disproven at some point, divinity can not.
You can not argue that something is because it is. Grass isn't green because it's green, there is a REASON for it being green. You can't call something divine because it's divine, give a reason that it is. You can't really though. In order to you have to be able to prove that god is real, and you can't prove he is any more then any athiest can prove he isn't.
You're talking about faith.
I'm talking about science.
Edit: BTW, I've already read around on that site, long before you ever posted it.
I can explain every case away with a single question.
Do you believe that people can lie, or be confused?
Edit again: I thought about letting this one go, but changed my mind. The site you linked is run by an evangelist. You don't really want to get me going on brainwashing, it's methods, and how that relates to evangelists. Just to note that the sites intent is to convert people to evangelism, as you would clearly see if you read who operated the site ( it's made clear the intent of the site), through NDE testimonials, wish the creator of the site determined is "the truth".
Another edit: If people aren't aware, now this may not go for every evangelist, but the predominant evangelical church or whatever they are, believes that we should learn from islamic extremists. Children should be brought up and instilled with the same passion for god and jesus that they would, if needed, strap a bomb to themself and blow stuff up. That is not bullshit, I do not make this up, the largest evangelical group in the U.S. is proud and open about this belief and they run camps all across america specifically for the purpose of converting children. They just don't go door to door like jehova's witnesses do. There is a scarely large segment of evangelists who believe that "white america" needs to start instilling our children with this kind of faith.
If anyone is an evangelist I apologize if I've offended. May not be your group or church, or they may not talk to you directly about this stuff. I swear on all that is, I do not make this up. They are really out there.
Then you must be my evil twin. If you have interests in these subjects then you know the quantum weirdness that goes on all around us. The vibrating quarks that "tune" or universe in to a certain frequency. Even the roots of major religions.
I was brought up with Jesus nailed in my head. It took real knowledge of the origin of major religions to shatter my belief.
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things -Rene Desecrates.
Thats what freed me from cherry picking. I accurately weighed our information because all i saught was truth. And you cant dismiss some information in the air because there is a "possible" explanation. When the participants disagree.
You know NDE's are what sparked my interest in physics. After reading experiences of people gaining knowledge about the quantum world, i wanted to see further. And its amazing the extent, the fabrication of the multiverse goes. I guess we can interpret this differently though, and we will never convince one another.
let this thread die, there will be a new one in a few days anyways
In humans alone it has been determined that it can take around 10k years for us to have a genetic change. Why would anyone think that natural evolution is something that can be "observed". It can't. Arguing that evolution doesn't exist because you can't watch it happen is like saying that god doesn't exist because you can't see him. It's not an overnight process, it takes thousands of years for traits to be weeded through, the good ones kept and the bad ones and unneccesary ones disgarded. We as humans are still born with tails sometimes; when was the last time you saw a human use a tail? We still have our apendix, when was the last time we used it? Not all changes are even observable, but occur on a genetic level, and without continually testing every species of life on this planet at genetic level it would be impossible to even say that evolution isn't occuring.
if it took ten thousand years for a single genetic change, then that would leave room for only a couple of dozen changes from apes to men on an evolutionist timeline of the Earth...Are you suggesting that the difference between men and apes are only a few dozen changes? Because like I said earlier in my post, the couple of % that differenciates us from apes accounts for thousands upon thousands of changes.
I don't mind religion. I like it actually. I enjoy discussing it, and am very open and receptive to other people beliefs. With one exception.
Creationism is a bunch of down right LIES, MISTRUTHS, AND PROPOGANDA. Creationists spend more time trying to debunk real science then they do trying to find factual information about the garbage they spew. It's also sad that so many would so blindly be lead down the creationist road of scientific blasphemy that they don't even know were thier moronic views come from. The magority of what creationists believe was written hundreds of years ago by a guy that "disiphered" the bible. Creationisms roots have absolutely nothing to do with science or truth.
I could say the same thing about evolution...do you know how misleading science text books are when it comes to evolution? Let's talk about Lucy...who is depicted in modern science books as basically a man with hair all over his body (Lucy was, in fact, male, and named only for the song Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds) Lucy was actually founds with ape hips, toes, and hands...but later had his skeleton resculpted by a 'scientist" because he said that they had been compressed...First of all, what are the odds that they would be perfectly compressed to resemble an ape's? Second of all...how the hell does he know that? The answer? He didn't...it's just that there was too much about Lucy that didn't resemble a human, and it couldn't be considered a good transition fossil because of that, so they changed it. This is a lie of evolution that nobody talks about...You want to talk about how people have been mislead regarding evolution? I could go on and on.
Edit: The guy I mentioned earlier will one day save billions of lives if not the planet itself. Some folks feel he shouldn't be doing what he's doing because what he will do is create new life and those people feel that that is not mans right, but gods. What it is is a deep rooted fear that this guy may do something that puts thier faith into question. If god is the only being that create life then what the hell is going on when a man can do the same thing.
Second edit: I would personally rather see man become the master of our universe as aposed to remaining a slave to faith.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I believe it is much longer then just 10k years. I don't have the book with me but how ever old lucy is there is only about 5-6 beneficial mutations between him and modern humans.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Beneficial mutations, or significant differences?
His hips are completely Ape-like
His fingers and toes are completely ape-like
his skull is completely ape-like
There are more than three mutations involved in changes this drastic...Whoever told you that you could go from a quadraped that walks on all fours to walking on only two feet in one mutation, lied to you.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
What?!?!?
Is that for real?
--------------------------------------
A person can have any beliefs they want so yes you can have a genius who believes the bible and science equally. Humans dont have to dictate there beliefs by logic or any factor for that matter. It doesnt make that person right. He still can though. End of discussion thread closed
sorry just hate this topic
I remember the first time I found out that there were other religions in the world. When I was little I just assumed the whole world (Chinese, Middle Easterners, Russians, Japanese, etc) all were just naturally Christians.
When I found out it was so strange it made me feel like my whole little world was upside down. My family was big into their southern Baptist church. We went there all the time and that's pretty much all I hung around with were the church kids from there.
I asked my parents about it and they told me that the other religions were all wrong about God and Jesus. I remembered that they had told me for a long time that as long as I asked Jesus for forgiveness I would go to Heaven someday. So I asked them where the people who didn't believe in Jesus (that I had just found out about no doubt) went. My dad told me that they were all going to hell.
A few years later I was around middle school age and met this boy who was an immigrant from India. I still remember his name, Eshvar, strange huh? Anyways, he told me that he was a Hindu. I asked him if he believed in Jesus and he told me no. That night I asked my dad how come Eshvar had to go to hell and he told me he won't if I convince him to believe in Jesus.
So the next day I went to school and told Eshvar he was going to hell unless he believed in Jesus. He called me a liar and I got mad at him for saying that. How could I be lying when my parents told me it was true and there were so many other Christians in our classroom. Obviously he was outnumbered.
The next day his parents had called the school and asked that either the school have a talk with me and him together about different cultures, or keep us separated. The school called my parents and they chose to keep us separated because they did not want me to learn anything other than what they had taught me.
That wasn't too long ago.
Eventually, later on in the years Eshvar and I did become friends. I began to question my parents too. And I'm glad I did.
A lot of what they had told me did not make sense. And I would never believe that Eshvar is going to hell for being a Hindu.
That's one of the things that I find a problem with in Christianity. I call myself a Christian, but it troubles me to hear people say others are going to hell for being born in a different culture than them.
I think that through things like Science, and History, and other lessons and discoveries that broaden our knowledge, we can find a way to make ancient texts make more sense. I think it is okay to question some texts when they don't match up to what we learn as true today. I even think it's okay to accept that our own cultures change and don't exactly fit what the ancients used to do.
--------------------------------------
2. colours... mortal humans do NOT see "colors" they percieve reflected wavelengths sans (without) those that are absorbed by the reflecting body.
2.a. humans "see" only an extremely limited span of the electromagnetic spectrum (EMS) ultra violet/300 to 800nm/infra red.
2.b. The VAST majority of the EMS is unrecognized by humans. ?Just because humans do "not see" it, does that ALSO mean it is not there?! Humans can detect about 20% of the 'known universe' does that mean the other 80% can be ignored?!
1. 'evidence against G'...
vatican sex crimes against children coverup
"A secret document which sets out a procedure for dealing with child sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church" (rcc) "is examined by Panorama.
Crimen Sollicitationis was enforced for 20 years by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became the Pope.
It instructs bishops on how to deal with allegations of child abuse against priests and has been seen by few outsiders.
Critics say the document has been used to evade prosecution for sex crimes.
It imposes an oath of secrecy on the child victim, the priest dealing with the allegation and any witnesses.
Breaking that oath means excommunication from the Catholic Church."
39 min video
todate the rcc has payed out over us$4,000,000,000 hush money in the US, world wide total payment is not revealed.
nazismo
L'opus Dei
...
edit
PS, fyi Christ's name was ?????????? Yehoshua (Joshua) the jesus scam is a continuation of the fraud perpetuated by the rcc (never, in his mortal life was Christ called jesus)... a collaboration in saul's apostolic church (salvation ONLY through faith and grace WHILE ignoring that jewish Law/TaNaKh.) If one ignores that much of the new testament (nt) is a 'cherry-picked' collection of anonymous books, examination reveals that over 2/3s of the nt is of saul and his disciples replacing ACTUAL teachings of Christ... two thousand years later "christians" can NOT even distinguish between saul's dogma (dogma is where 'faith' has to be ENFORCED) and verbatim words of Christ.
But if one can not even get His Name right, what difference does it make one also gets Christ's bona fide Teachings wrong!
?????????? = this web site blocks hebrew script.
What?!?!?
Is that for real?
Yup dinosaurs in the Bible are referred to as behemoths and leviathans.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
2. colours... mortal humans do NOT see "colors" they percieve reflected wavelengths sans (without) those that are absorbed by the reflecting body.
2.a. humans "see" only an extremely limited span of the electromagnetic spectrum (EMS) ultra violet/300 to 800nm/infra red.
2.b. The VAST majority of the EMS is unrecognized by humans. ?Just because humans do "not see" it, does that ALSO mean it is not there?! Humans can detect about 20% of the 'known universe' does that mean the other 80% can be ignored?!
1. 'evidence against G'...
vatican sex crimes against children coverup
"A secret document which sets out a procedure for dealing with child sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church" (rcc) "is examined by Panorama.
Crimen Sollicitationis was enforced for 20 years by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became the Pope.
It instructs bishops on how to deal with allegations of child abuse against priests and has been seen by few outsiders.
Critics say the document has been used to evade prosecution for sex crimes.
It imposes an oath of secrecy on the child victim, the priest dealing with the allegation and any witnesses.
Breaking that oath means excommunication from the Catholic Church."
39 min video
todate the rcc has payed out over us$4,000,000,000 hush money in the US, world wide total payment is not revealed.
nazismo
L'opus Dei
...
edit
PS, fyi Christ's name was ?????????? Yehoshua (Joshua) the jesus scam is a continuation of the fraud perpetuated by the rcc (never, in his mortal life was Christ called jesus)... a collaboration in saul's apostolic church (salvation ONLY through faith and grace WHILE ignoring that jewish Law/TaNaKh.) If one ignores that much of the new testament (nt) is a 'cherry-picked' collection of anonymous books, examination reveals that over 2/3s of the nt is of saul and his disciples replacing ACTUAL teachings of Christ... two thousand years later "christians" can NOT even distinguish between saul's dogma (dogma is where 'faith' has to be ENFORCED) and verbatim words of Christ.
But if one can not even get His Name right, what difference does it make one also gets Christ's bona fide Teachings wrong!
?????????? = this web site blocks hebrew script.
My point was, you cant use the scientific method to prove something that is true. Colors to a colorblind person. I don't care about wavelength and i know we only see a fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum but that has nothing to do with my point.
Since when did human actions have anything to do with God???? You are misled because you think religion is the only view of God.
What?!?!?
Is that for real?
Look at the names of the colors.
Cheap shot, and a misguided and misleading one at that.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
So let me get this strait.
If a mean ass SOB gets saved and really turns his life around becomes a new person.we can credit this to a chemical reaction in the brain.
=♦=
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Beneficial mutations, or significant differences?
His hips are completely Ape-like
His fingers and toes are completely ape-like
his skull is completely ape-like
There are more than three mutations involved in changes this drastic...Whoever told you that you could go from a quadraped that walks on all fours to walking on only two feet in one mutation, lied to you.
Sorry used the wrong wording. Speices chaning mutations is what I meant.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
I'm not following the giant spider picture reference to the post...
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.