Oh yes....everyone in the gaming world is in denial but you. /rollseyes
The point I was trying to make, is that you are not the Game God. YOU do not determine what games are "dying" and which ones get to "live." You're making ignorant generalizations about not only World of Warcraft, but making assumptions about Warhammer, which is a completely unknown denominator at this time. What my post has to do with the "Recruit-A-Friend" thread, is that it was a response to YOUR post proclaiming the "death of WoW" and that the "recruit a friend" promo is "a desperate attempt to save a dying game," or some crap like that. LMAO That's what you DO in threads, you know, each post is generally a response to another post, usually about the same topic..... O.o Hello? Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's skewed and not based on a solid foundation of fact. Personally, (yeah, I didn't say "frankly" this time) I think there's plenty of room for more than one great MMO. I'd really like to see.....oh....maybe TEN great MMOs so that there was something suitable for everyone's unique personality to enjoy and we'd all have more CHOICES. But apparently, you and many others, seem to think that there's only room in the gaming world for ONE successful MMO. /slaps forehead Nevermind....YOU don't understand what I'm saying, obviously, so there's no use in repeating it all again and again. Suffice it to say....I think you're wrong. WoW will continue on and perhaps we'll get lucky and Warhammer WILL actually be awesome and then I'll have even MORE games to give my subscription dollars to. That would be a win/win situation.
Wow you have lots of bent of anger inside of you lol, anyways you keep on living in your delusions and I will keep on spreading the news of the desperate attempts WOW is trying to make.
You said "Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's skewed and not based on a solid foundation of fact. "
Not based on a solid foundation of fact . lol ok and so you have a solid foundation of facts, Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle.....bah you know the rest of it..
Seriously if im so wrong and the game is doing so wonderfully awesome from a sales stand point why change the formula? Answer that with facts and then maybe I will change my opinion. Desperate times call for desperate measures...
They are changing the formula to make more money....in part. Although, I don't see that as "milking" the subscriber base. I see it more as running a business and trying to stay on top of making the big moolah.
Someone in another thread was bemoaning the leveling bonus too. Well...imagine if you can...being a brand NEW subscriber to WoW. (And there ARE some, btw.)
The lower level dungeons are now basically deserted, except for enchanters farming for mats. So....WE could run dungeons, which were worth more xp. I've watched pitiful newbs spam trade channel for DAYS trying to get ONE Scarlet group put together. WE didn't ever have to do that. We were able to run SM (and ALL the old world dungeons) many many times with appropriate level groups, sometimes gaining several levels in just a couple runs. Remember those days? Well....new players can't do that.
So....if you were a company releasing a new expansion....wouldn't you want as many people as possible to buy it? Yes, of course, it's a business. SO....if you don't give the new players some HOPE of reaching a level from which they can participate in the expansion, what's in it for them? New haircuts? O.o Not worth 40 bucks, so....you wouldn't buy it. However....if you're given a faster way to level and some HOPE that you can fairly rapidly catch up to be able and enjoy the new content....you'd be more apt to buy the said expansion.
Now.....one thing I DO agree with you on, is that Blizzard is lazy. LAZY LAZY LAZY. I am not a FAN of EQ2, however, to their credit, rather than making leveling THIS much faster, when they have an expansion, they add more content at lower levels AND higher levels. So that EVERYONE has a reason to buy the expansions.
Yeah...I know....we couldn't expect that from Blizzard. BUT...it would have been a way to help out the lowbies without pissin' off the end game crowd...MAYBE.
Anyway, I'm not "angry" at you or anyone else. I just hate seeing blanket statements made that don't weigh all the sides of the discussion. And that's what it feels like happens on web forums ALL THE TIME, so often I like to play a bit of "Devil's Advocate" and argue an opposing side for the sake of conversation.
Also...WAR open beta starts in FIVE DAYS and I couldn't BE more excited!!!! WOOHOO!!
So....wanna call a "truce" and just agree that we have some differing opinions and some similar opinions? And I apologize for any off-handed insults I might have thrown your way. Forum banter is a little like verbal PvP to me, and I just get all pumped up and venomous sometimes. Heck I've even argued a side I DON'T particularly agree with before, JUST for the sake of showing multiple sides. Every topic has many many viewpoints. And it's really FUN, to me anyway, to hear all of them.
They are changing the formula to make more money....in part. Although, I don't see that as "milking" the subscriber base. I see it more as running a business and trying to stay on top of making the big moolah. Someone in another thread was bemoaning the leveling bonus too. Well...imagine if you can...being a brand NEW subscriber to WoW. (And there ARE some, btw.) The lower level dungeons are now basically deserted, except for enchanters farming for mats. So....WE could run dungeons, which were worth more xp. I've watched pitiful newbs spam trade channel for DAYS trying to get ONE Scarlet group put together. WE didn't ever have to do that. We were able to run SM (and ALL the old world dungeons) many many times with appropriate level groups, sometimes gaining several levels in just a couple runs. Remember those days? Well....new players can't do that. So....if you were a company releasing a new expansion....wouldn't you want as many people as possible to buy it? Yes, of course, it's a business. SO....if you don't give the new players some HOPE of reaching a level from which they can participate in the expansion, what's in it for them? New haircuts? O.o Not worth 40 bucks, so....you wouldn't buy it. However....if you're given a faster way to level and some HOPE that you can fairly rapidly catch up to be able and enjoy the new content....you'd be more apt to buy the said expansion. Now.....one thing I DO agree with you on, is that Blizzard is lazy. LAZY LAZY LAZY. I am not a FAN of EQ2, however, to their credit, rather than making leveling THIS much faster, when they have an expansion, they add more content at lower levels AND higher levels. So that EVERYONE has a reason to buy the expansions. Yeah...I know....we couldn't expect that from Blizzard. BUT...it would have been a way to help out the lowbies without pissin' off the end game crowd...MAYBE. Anyway, I'm not "angry" at you or anyone else. I just hate seeing blanket statements made that don't weigh all the sides of the discussion. And that's what it feels like happens on web forums ALL THE TIME, so often I like to play a bit of "Devil's Advocate" and argue an opposing side for the sake of conversation. Also...WAR open beta starts in FIVE DAYS and I couldn't BE more excited!!!! WOOHOO!! So....wanna call a "truce" and just agree that we have some differing opinions and some similar opinions? And I apologize for any off-handed insults I might have thrown your way. Forum banter is a little like verbal PvP to me, and I just get all pumped up and venomous sometimes. Heck I've even argued a side I DON'T particularly agree with before, JUST for the sake of showing multiple sides. Every topic has many many viewpoints. And it's really FUN, to me anyway, to hear all of them.
Ok Truce you made some very valid points. My apologies as well. We should be playing games that we enjoy not sitting on mmorpg arguing about who is right and who is wrong, thats game time wasted hehe. I agree alot of posts get me fired up and I start to type and then I catch myself many times and wonder what I am doing, almost like I am being reeled into it. So I backspace my comments many times over because it simply is not worth my time.
Why is it that the people I argue with, almost without fail, end up being the people I actually LIKE the most? LOL I think I like critical thinkers. And for some reason, people who think a lot...also like a good argument. hehe
I CAN'T WAIT FOR WARRRRRR!!!! LESS than 5 days now! w00t!
Better go get my WoW affairs in order and let the guild know....I very well MIGHT not be on as much. And for anyone who is about to ask, "NO...you can't have my stuff!" :P
This is very true I know the feeling. Im also going to try WAR I think it may turn out to be a pretty decent game. I also played WOW awhile back. I have a 70 Alliance hunter and a 70 Horde rogue, and a few high lvl 60s. What server you play on? I play on Bloodhoof PVE and also have some alts on a PVP server.
I have characters on both Lothar (my Alliance server, so to speak) and Tanaris, where all my Horde toons are. But I'm a HORDIE TO THE CORE. And in WAR....I'll be playing Destruction. Goody-two-shoes factions are boring to me...hehe.
I tried out the WoW demo twice in the past few years and both times I was reminded how silly that game was. I'm a fan of RPG's and MMO's but I will never understand why a game like WoW made as much money as it has. The graphics are blocky, cartoony looking and everyone looks the same. Except for the gear they wear. And the fact that you can walk right through your enemies has got to be the silliest thing of all. There's tons more excitement in MMO's when you can actually get surrounded and stuck and die from not paying attention to where you are. I'm glad I never spent a single dime on that game. And if Diablo 3 looks anything like WoW, I won't be buying it.
I tried out the WoW demo twice in the past few years and both times I was reminded how silly that game was. I'm a fan of RPG's and MMO's but I will never understand why a game like WoW made as much money as it has. The graphics are blocky, cartoony looking and everyone looks the same. Except for the gear they wear. And the fact that you can walk right through your enemies has got to be the silliest thing of all. There's tons more excitement in MMO's when you can actually get surrounded and stuck and die from not paying attention to where you are. I'm glad I never spent a single dime on that game. And if Diablo 3 looks anything like WoW, I won't be buying it.
Ron I played WOW and I too agree with you, but I can give you some reasons why I think WOW has made lots n lots of money, but remember this is just my opinion and it doesn't mean anyone should agree.
1. You can pratically run the game on a commodore64 RIG.
2. Doesn't cost people alot of money to play.
3. It's easy to play and lvl. especially with the "Recruit a Friend"
4. It is 1 of those games that people have grown attached too throughout the years because there really wasn't anything better on the market until (AOC <----which I actually enjoy playing despite all the naysayers and haterz <--- it's all about personal preference) It's like snorting crack, saying I quit this for something else is alot harder after you invested so much time and money into it, well maybe addicting like crack to some people, for me it wasn't I was burnt out and I left it for something that has better graphics and that offers something different and new.
WAR is coming and who knows it may turn out to be a decent game, but what is decent to 1 person may suck to another.
Which is why I will never (even if you explain it to me 100 different ways) understand why people don't make their own decisions and draw their own conclusions on if they like a game or not. Do not decide that they don't/ do want to buy a game because Peter Ragmuffin says it sux or its awesome....If I based all my decision making off someone else's thoughts and feelings my life would be a dull and boring world.
In my opinion, most of the bickering yesterday was both foolish and repulsive to read. Several valid points were made and several utterly matterless ones were as well. It swayed from the defense and support of the Recruit-A-Friend Program's revamp to defending WoW in general. The new program is intuitive and interesting - and it does make good for getting new and lower level characters (alts of the recruiter) up to that anticipated level. Doing it all once on a Rogue and realizing that your guild has all rogues and no tank or healer... Encouraging that desperate power-level to make sure some guilds are well-equipped, among other similiar scenarios. It has it's bonuses.
The politics of the decision (of course everyone knows what that means) doesn't matter to me all that much, but I figure it was made at least to some degree because a plausibly better success than AoC is coming that might (or already has) taken some playerbase - not ALL of the playerbase as most of the diehard-forum Warhammer fans here are sadly assuming. It was said before: profit. If it is a 'cheap' ploy to gain more players from the new additional countries to the game's already endless playerbase, it certainly is cheap. The free month and a lot of bonuses? If I weren't already switching away, I'd be quite psyched about something like that.
Just trying to be open about the decision. I'm still in that WoW = Waiting on Warhammer mindset.
----------
More on to the people too focused with the politics: I do find it funny and stupid when people say "WAR will crush WoW" - you know those people are disgruntled ex-players. Denied by a GM, ganked repeatedly, cybering partner copped out and reported everything on the forums; so on. WAR won't come close to beating WoW in short terms. A long time from now, maybe, if Mythic doesn't botch this. But WAR will be a ridiculously good game. Better than most of the other games coming out these days of the genre. It is my hope that my new favorite game of 2008-2009 becomes an MMO superpower alongside WoW - agreeingly siding with WoW's most defensive player.
--------------------- Sniper is another term for unorthodox surgeon.
I'll throw in my 2 coppers on the "WoW is dying" or whatever issue. The subs have been leveling off for quite some time now. If you think early on, breaking the one, two, three million mark was rather quick. Once it hit 7 million, it was still growing but not nearly as fast. Been at 10 million for some time now and the Latin America addition didn't even increase subs by 10%.
Is WoW dying? No, it's not.
I think WoW is getting to the point where people leaving the game is almost equal to people subscribing. Many reasons people leave: burnout, boredom, unhappy with game's direction. They have done well to give reasons for people to start WoW, but not so well to get people to restart WoW.
Anyways as for the original topic, I do agree this is a reaction to WAR coming out. WAR won't "kill" WoW by a long shot, but it will probably chip away at WoW's subs. Doubtful any one game will kill WoW, more likely several games will wear away at WoW's playerbase.
Comments
It's a form of RMT pure and simple, shame on you Blizzard for selling out.
Wow you have lots of bent of anger inside of you lol, anyways you keep on living in your delusions and I will keep on spreading the news of the desperate attempts WOW is trying to make.
You said "Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's skewed and not based on a solid foundation of fact.
"
Not based on a solid foundation of fact . lol ok and so you have a solid foundation of facts, Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle.....bah you know the rest of it..
Seriously if im so wrong and the game is doing so wonderfully awesome from a sales stand point why change the formula? Answer that with facts and then maybe I will change my opinion. Desperate times call for desperate measures...
They are changing the formula to make more money....in part. Although, I don't see that as "milking" the subscriber base. I see it more as running a business and trying to stay on top of making the big moolah.
Someone in another thread was bemoaning the leveling bonus too. Well...imagine if you can...being a brand NEW subscriber to WoW. (And there ARE some, btw.)
The lower level dungeons are now basically deserted, except for enchanters farming for mats. So....WE could run dungeons, which were worth more xp. I've watched pitiful newbs spam trade channel for DAYS trying to get ONE Scarlet group put together. WE didn't ever have to do that. We were able to run SM (and ALL the old world dungeons) many many times with appropriate level groups, sometimes gaining several levels in just a couple runs. Remember those days? Well....new players can't do that.
So....if you were a company releasing a new expansion....wouldn't you want as many people as possible to buy it? Yes, of course, it's a business. SO....if you don't give the new players some HOPE of reaching a level from which they can participate in the expansion, what's in it for them? New haircuts? O.o Not worth 40 bucks, so....you wouldn't buy it. However....if you're given a faster way to level and some HOPE that you can fairly rapidly catch up to be able and enjoy the new content....you'd be more apt to buy the said expansion.
Now.....one thing I DO agree with you on, is that Blizzard is lazy. LAZY LAZY LAZY. I am not a FAN of EQ2, however, to their credit, rather than making leveling THIS much faster, when they have an expansion, they add more content at lower levels AND higher levels. So that EVERYONE has a reason to buy the expansions.
Yeah...I know....we couldn't expect that from Blizzard. BUT...it would have been a way to help out the lowbies without pissin' off the end game crowd...MAYBE.
Anyway, I'm not "angry" at you or anyone else. I just hate seeing blanket statements made that don't weigh all the sides of the discussion. And that's what it feels like happens on web forums ALL THE TIME, so often I like to play a bit of "Devil's Advocate" and argue an opposing side for the sake of conversation.
Also...WAR open beta starts in FIVE DAYS and I couldn't BE more excited!!!! WOOHOO!!
So....wanna call a "truce" and just agree that we have some differing opinions and some similar opinions? And I apologize for any off-handed insults I might have thrown your way. Forum banter is a little like verbal PvP to me, and I just get all pumped up and venomous sometimes. Heck I've even argued a side I DON'T particularly agree with before, JUST for the sake of showing multiple sides. Every topic has many many viewpoints. And it's really FUN, to me anyway, to hear all of them.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Ok Truce you made some very valid points. My apologies as well. We should be playing games that we enjoy not sitting on mmorpg arguing about who is right and who is wrong, thats game time wasted hehe. I agree alot of posts get me fired up and I start to type and then I catch myself many times and wonder what I am doing, almost like I am being reeled into it. So I backspace my comments many times over because it simply is not worth my time.
=D
Why is it that the people I argue with, almost without fail, end up being the people I actually LIKE the most? LOL I think I like critical thinkers.
And for some reason, people who think a lot...also like a good argument. hehe
I CAN'T WAIT FOR WARRRRRR!!!! LESS than 5 days now! w00t!
Better go get my WoW affairs in order and let the guild know....I very well MIGHT not be on as much. And for anyone who is about to ask, "NO...you can't have my stuff!" :P
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
This is very true I know the feeling. Im also going to try WAR I think it may turn out to be a pretty decent game. I also played WOW awhile back. I have a 70 Alliance hunter and a 70 Horde rogue, and a few high lvl 60s. What server you play on? I play on Bloodhoof PVE and also have some alts on a PVP server.
I have characters on both Lothar (my Alliance server, so to speak) and Tanaris, where all my Horde toons are.
But I'm a HORDIE TO THE CORE. And in WAR....I'll be playing Destruction. Goody-two-shoes factions are boring to me...hehe. 
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Yea I always like being the bad guy, makes me feel like I am not bound by rules and codes of conduct. lol.
I tried out the WoW demo twice in the past few years and both times I was reminded how silly that game was. I'm a fan of RPG's and MMO's but I will never understand why a game like WoW made as much money as it has. The graphics are blocky, cartoony looking and everyone looks the same. Except for the gear they wear. And the fact that you can walk right through your enemies has got to be the silliest thing of all. There's tons more excitement in MMO's when you can actually get surrounded and stuck and die from not paying attention to where you are. I'm glad I never spent a single dime on that game. And if Diablo 3 looks anything like WoW, I won't be buying it.
Ron I played WOW and I too agree with you, but I can give you some reasons why I think WOW has made lots n lots of money, but remember this is just my opinion and it doesn't mean anyone should agree.
1. You can pratically run the game on a commodore64 RIG.
2. Doesn't cost people alot of money to play.
3. It's easy to play and lvl. especially with the "Recruit a Friend"
4. It is 1 of those games that people have grown attached too throughout the years because there really wasn't anything better on the market until (AOC <----which I actually enjoy playing despite all the naysayers and haterz <--- it's all about personal preference) It's like snorting crack, saying I quit this for something else is alot harder after you invested so much time and money into it, well maybe addicting like crack to some people, for me it wasn't I was burnt out and I left it for something that has better graphics and that offers something different and new.
WAR is coming and who knows it may turn out to be a decent game, but what is decent to 1 person may suck to another.
Which is why I will never (even if you explain it to me 100 different ways) understand why people don't make their own decisions and draw their own conclusions on if they like a game or not. Do not decide that they don't/ do want to buy a game because Peter Ragmuffin says it sux or its awesome....If I based all my decision making off someone else's thoughts and feelings my life would be a dull and boring world.
In my opinion, most of the bickering yesterday was both foolish and repulsive to read. Several valid points were made and several utterly matterless ones were as well. It swayed from the defense and support of the Recruit-A-Friend Program's revamp to defending WoW in general. The new program is intuitive and interesting - and it does make good for getting new and lower level characters (alts of the recruiter) up to that anticipated level. Doing it all once on a Rogue and realizing that your guild has all rogues and no tank or healer... Encouraging that desperate power-level to make sure some guilds are well-equipped, among other similiar scenarios. It has it's bonuses.
The politics of the decision (of course everyone knows what that means) doesn't matter to me all that much, but I figure it was made at least to some degree because a plausibly better success than AoC is coming that might (or already has) taken some playerbase - not ALL of the playerbase as most of the diehard-forum Warhammer fans here are sadly assuming. It was said before: profit. If it is a 'cheap' ploy to gain more players from the new additional countries to the game's already endless playerbase, it certainly is cheap. The free month and a lot of bonuses? If I weren't already switching away, I'd be quite psyched about something like that.
Just trying to be open about the decision. I'm still in that WoW = Waiting on Warhammer mindset.
----------
More on to the people too focused with the politics: I do find it funny and stupid when people say "WAR will crush WoW" - you know those people are disgruntled ex-players. Denied by a GM, ganked repeatedly, cybering partner copped out and reported everything on the forums; so on. WAR won't come close to beating WoW in short terms. A long time from now, maybe, if Mythic doesn't botch this. But WAR will be a ridiculously good game. Better than most of the other games coming out these days of the genre. It is my hope that my new favorite game of 2008-2009 becomes an MMO superpower alongside WoW - agreeingly siding with WoW's most defensive player.
---------------------
Sniper is another term for unorthodox surgeon.
I'll throw in my 2 coppers on the "WoW is dying" or whatever issue. The subs have been leveling off for quite some time now. If you think early on, breaking the one, two, three million mark was rather quick. Once it hit 7 million, it was still growing but not nearly as fast. Been at 10 million for some time now and the Latin America addition didn't even increase subs by 10%.
Is WoW dying? No, it's not.
I think WoW is getting to the point where people leaving the game is almost equal to people subscribing. Many reasons people leave: burnout, boredom, unhappy with game's direction. They have done well to give reasons for people to start WoW, but not so well to get people to restart WoW.
Anyways as for the original topic, I do agree this is a reaction to WAR coming out. WAR won't "kill" WoW by a long shot, but it will probably chip away at WoW's subs. Doubtful any one game will kill WoW, more likely several games will wear away at WoW's playerbase.