Wow, lots of comments. I will try to answer some of them.
Originally posted by shadowbreed i find the statement that "EVE is overrated" disturbing. last i checked there were over 400 comments for rating EVE. so it is well commented on too maintain a high rating. i see 3 games i have played extensively also rated high and i do not feel they even touch EVE...those being DAoC, AO, and CoH.....bare in mind that i also feel those 3 and EVE cannot be compared properly anyways.
Try to read the comments and you will get the true picture. The rating value seems to be off for sure and its probably because those that love the game rate it to a pure 10 and those that do not like the game, but not hate it, rate it truely to their opinions. I do not think Eve is a love or hate game, but more so a love or don't care game.
I have to ask if you even played the game before you posted this? First off Eve is one of the biggest MMO's ive ever played. There is no lack of content at all. And if you only played through the trial I don't think you would even have a full scope for the game yet. Anyway Eve isnt rated too high it simply is the best MMO ive ever played. If you dont like it go play something else and stop whining.
5000 systems with an odd number of stations, fugitive hideouts, asteroid belts, and a few ships and sentry guns are not 5000 units of "content", its 5000 instances of the same few content units, ie. stations, fugitive hideouts, asteroid belts, and a few ships and sentry guns. Having 8 different cargo expanders that only differ in the expansion size and maybe a little in the speed/hull-structure loss does not really open up that much for a big discussion on what is the best one. I come from other MMOGs that have several different slots for gear on the toon (=ships in Eve) and each slot have thousands, if not tens of thousands of items that can be equipped in that slot with many different combinations of stats. most of the MMOGs even offer the player an option to enhance the items even more to his specific wishes, which makes it even more challenging to get the best setup. These other MMOGs usually also offer the oppertunity to change setup just before the fight or maybe even under, so you can improve your chances, which makes the fights different from time to time. Eve is simply missing many of the layers of user configuration that many other MMOGs provide, which makes Eve quite simple to an experienced player.
Just check out the stats on that gun turrent and then tell me those other games have more content.
Wow, I am so not impressed. I am used to items with several stats, both good and bad ones. Eve items only have a specific set of items and they are scaling nicely, so its easy to tell which item is the best one. There are no really hard decision on what to equip.
Originally posted by zodden
You say there is no content and goals? Are you nuts? There is so much content that it tends to overwhelm new players. Play the game for a month and you still may not know where to take your char goals wise.
No goals huh? Ever train a skill to 5? Buy or build a new ship? Get into a new ship class? Buy named items? Hunt down a player pirate with a bounty? Help a corp establish itself in 0.0? Get a higher level agent? Work on research and or production? These are not goals? What about the upcoming Shiva expansion where you can build and fight over Player run space stations? These are not worthy goals?
If you just researched the game a bit and used the few Eve waebsites available, then everything would be clear to you. I reached 5 in several before I stopped. I was able to make a perfect refine with no waste and no station fees, I was close to being able to do prefect scrapmetal refining too, and I was doing research when I stopped too.
Originally posted by Zuko Eve is in the current state a singleplayer game with player-controlled monsters, its not really a MMOG. Most other MMOGs require teamwork and tactics to accomplish something big and Eve will need to aim for this or it will slowly die out due to bored players.
This is the most retarded and insulting thing anyone can say about EVE. If you can't find the player-interaction dependance in EVE you've got issues. Player interaction is more heavily emphasized in EVE than it is in any other MMOG right now, that's why so many young nerd-like gamers are often turned off by it (because they don't know how to deal with people so they never become amazing at it) whilst smarter, more social and mature players do stick around in it (because they have time for a life of their own since it doesn't depend on powerleveling and other useless crap like that, plus it makes you think).
True it is insulting and its insulting because Eve is NOT emphasizing on player interaction. There is currently nothing you can't do in Eve by adding more ships. If you can't handle an encounter, just add another battleship or two. Other MMOGs are heavily relying on player interaction, which is clearly shown by many of the situations that can not be succesfully done without a clear strategy and groupmembers that react on eachothers actions. EQ have plenty of encounters that can be done with 30 or so players, if they know how to work together and interact on EACHOTHERs actions. 100 players trying the same event in EQ would not successed, but in Eve they would.
Nerd-like players are people that are thorough in their approach to a game and make a deep research of it, which then shows that Eve has very little challenge for the mind to offer. I can program a simple macro-runner to play Eve in all situations, including ninja-mining in 0.0. The only part that would be somewhat difficult would be combat situations, where it should make decission on whether to fight or flee.
Eve has a good support staff, but due to the amount of bugs many valid petitions are closed with the message "the logs do not show that" or they are simply ignored. The support staff can be good, but it will mean nothing if the bugs is causing the amount of work to rise too high.
Last time I was stuck, i have been stuck once in the past 4 months, It took ten minutes to respond to my pentition.
A stuck bug is easily fixed, but it still takes time to fix and due to many such easily fixed bugs, then the more complicated bugs are ignored. Stuck bugs might not be common, but bugs with agents missions that needs a reset or insurance claims from ships that needs to be repackaged, because rats and asteroid fields become invisible are common and just as time consuming.
Originally posted by JRoark
Hunting is the last job you can take on, but hunting in Eve is like playing Counter-Strike on a flat map with no structures or objects. Its impossible to have a fair fight. The only way to fight is to make sure the teams are uneven. Eve needs items, structures and skills that makes defensive stands possible, which could be achieved with "Area of Effect"-addons.
I dought you have done any PvP at all in eve. EvE is based in space, you cant compair the play stile to counter-strike. Your defence is how you set up your ship and how your budies set up there ships and what ships your side uses. Ive seen battles take place where a group with less numbers has and won.
Its actually quite easy to compare CS and Eve in the current state. Excahnge the toons in CS with ships and you pretty much have it. Bulletproof vests would be armor in Eve and HP would be structure in Eve. Guns would well be Guns in Eve.
What Eve is missing is something to add objects on the falt map, like a ship that can repair other ships (something like a medic in FPS games), ships that can make it harder to target or shoot ships in its surrounding area (much like a player that turns off the light in a room in FPS games), but also ships that improves the targetting and shooting (much like a player with a big flashlight ).
The only group defensive capability I have seen so far in Eve is when ships hide behind another ship in order to fool the missile hit routine.
Hm, I'm not really sure what information the original post was based on. In terms of being disconnected from the server, the vast majority of disconnects are caused by hardware and software issues, not server issues. I can't remember the last time I was disconnected from EVE, other than when my ISP gave out.
In terms of bugs, there are some, but most of them are graphical and the ones that aren't are mere annoyances. The worst glitch around is probably the "stuck" bug, where you get stuck inside of a jump gate--- and that has only happened to me once (I've been playing since release). I don't think there has ever been a case of someone's ship promptly blowing up for no reason or anything of that nature.
A quite common bug seems to be objects in space that become invisible, which includes rats. They can still fire and jam you, but you can not target or even see them. Only way to solve this bug seems to be through a repackage of your ship and petition to get your insurance fee back, which quickly gets annoying when you have to do it several times on a day, if you are not so unlucky that the invisible rats kills you instead, which makes it impossible for the CS team to refund anything.
Originally posted by Demian_Sky
Oh, and I'm sorry if all you can do in EVE Online is manufacture, research, hunt NPC's, pirate, mine, trade, broker, bounty hunt, guard, run a corp, play the market, enforce law, do agent missions... I guess maybe you should go to a more complex game with more content like Counter Strike where you can shoot people and, um, shoot more people... or EQ and DoC where you can fight monsters, craft, and, um, fight more monsters.
Sounds like many things to do, but hunt NPC is just hunting, pirate is just hunting, bounty hunt is just hunting, guard is pretty much also just hunting, enforce law is also hunting and agent missions can be hunting too. The only difference between all these types of hunting is whether its a NPC or PC opponent. NPC opponents always act the same way. PC opponents are a bit more challenging, but if you are too powerful, then they usually flee and if you are not powerful, then they beat you down. I find even fights are rare, since just one of the parties has to think the opponent is too powerful.
I am missing group defensive capabilities and synergi effects to make PC battles interesting and actually give a benefit to teamwork. The current PC battles could just as easily be Counter-strike fights, where you just entered a server with complete strangers and your only contribution is to shoot at the opponents.
I come from other MMOGs that have several different slots for gear on the toon (=ships in Eve) and each slot have thousands, if not tens of thousands of items that can be equipped in that slot with many different combinations of stats.
EVE has that. You just haven't been playing lonng enough to figure it out. most of the MMOGs even offer the player an option to enhance the items even more to his specific wishes, which makes it even more challenging to get the best setup.
They have this too
These other MMOGs usually also offer the oppertunity to change setup just before the fight or maybe even under, so you can improve your chances, which makes the fights different from time to time. Eve is simply missing many of the layers of user configuration that many other MMOGs provide, which makes Eve quite simple to an experienced player.
Again, they have this feature as well.
I think you're problem is you are too programed for the mindless hack and slash learn magic missile and wield a Great sword of burning toes level treadmill. I kept my responses small because I know you wont play it so there really isn't a point to further explain my answers to you
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Originally posted by Baxe And looking on your posts I can only draw the conclusion that you have not been in many PvP battles. There is alot of tactic involved in fleet combat, what kind of ships your group have, how you equip them etc. And there are numerous ways of making a defensive setup on a ship.
As you are stating there is numerous ways of making a defensive setup on a ship, but now do the same thing for a group instead of a single ship. I bet you would make pretty much all the ship have the same defensive setup and you would not be able to change a defensive setup on one ship because you made a change on another.
Eve group combats are nothing but a bunch of ships fighting the same bunch of enemy ships. Make some ships that triple the shield regen of all friendly ships within 10km and some ships that increase the range of lasers with 20% of all friendly ships within 10km. Now you have 2 ships that can improve the effect of a group within those 10km radius and the effects listed here represent both an offensive and defensive group capability. The group now has to protect stay together and protect its enhancing ships and the enemy can now choose to either kill the group with brute force or by making attacks on the enhancer ships in order to weaken the group. Similar effects can be made with missiles (like area jamming), all turret guns (damage, range, targetting speed, tracking, rate of fire andcap usage, which should be changable in both an offensive and defensive way). Shield/armor/hull should be repairably by repairships, which would make a hidden repair camp an option too and this would be something for an opponent to track down and take out.
When those things are entered into the game, then you have group defensive capabilities and then you also has the basis for strategies and tactics.
I come from other MMOGs that have several different slots for gear on the toon (=ships in Eve) and each slot have thousands, if not tens of thousands of items that can be equipped in that slot with many different combinations of stats.
EVE has that. You just haven't been playing lonng enough to figure it out.
Its not hard to count the numbers of different slots on a ship. Low, Medium and High, although High power slots can be missiles or turret slots, so 4 different slot types. EQ has 22 slots.
A quick look at the market, Escrow and Eve-DB shows quite low numbers of items. I would say around 1000 items totally to be equipped in the those 4 slots types. EQ has more than 1000 per slot.
The items Eve has are series of items, where f.ex. a turret series consist of 4 turrets with varying names and a 0.1 increase in some stat, like damage, which clearly ranks items in that series and makes choosing one quite simple. Eve has no series of items where damage is increase on one and at the same time the shield regen is decreased, and another item that increase the shield, but then decrease the rate of fire for lasers. All items in Eve is straight forward. You get faster targetting and it will cost you some cap and powergrid. The only other items to give faster targetting is from the same series, so you just save 1 unit in powergrid or one unit in cap usage or something like that. And next step would be 1 unit better.
Originally posted by En1Gma
most of the MMOGs even offer the player an option to enhance the items even more to his specific wishes, which makes it even more challenging to get the best setup.
They have this too
Only item I have seen that can be somewhat altered in effect is turrets and missile launchers, which can be loaded with different kind of ammo. I have not seen a single item that can be altered to in anyway besides that. A 100MN Afterburner II can not be altered to some other a 100MN Afterburner II, as far as I know.
Originally posted by En1Gma
These other MMOGs usually also offer the oppertunity to change setup just before the fight or maybe even under, so you can improve your chances, which makes the fights different from time to time. Eve is simply missing many of the layers of user configuration that many other MMOGs provide, which makes Eve quite simple to an experienced player.
Again, they have this feature as well.
I have not found a single way to change items in-space, so I would love to hear how you exchange a like basic reactive plating module with a basic magnetic plating. Only way I have found so far is to land on a station, which is exactly what I wish to prevent.
Make some ships that triple the shield regen of all friendly ships within 10km and
Like this one? Name: Medium Shield Transporter I Description: Transfers shield power over to the target ship, aiding in its defense. Shield Transfer Range: 5000m Shield Bonus: 160
some ships that increase the range of lasers with 20% of all friendly ships within 10km.
Like this? Name: Remote Sensor Booster I Description: Can only be activated on target to increases their scan resolution and boosts their targeting range. Targeting Range Multiplier: 1.5x Scan Resolution Bonus: -50%
When those things are entered into the game, then you have group defensive capabilities and then you also has the basis for strategies and tactics.
you can load turrets and lasers with alot of ammo and the market isnt all that is. there are also alot of named items not listed there. even lasers have about 6 diffrent crystals you can put it, with about 10 diffrent turrets, that would make 60(?) possible choices for your current weapon that differs in speed, range, damage and so on. isnt that enough?
Originally posted by Zuko I have not found a single way to change items in-space, so I would love to hear how you exchange a like basic reactive plating module with a basic magnetic plating.
Uh, this isn't a missing feature, it's a design decision, and a good one that requires planning and careful execution of tactics.
Being able to change setup on the fly is rather considered a cheap cop-out. In this game you need to consider your setup BEFORE actually engaging, and knowing when to beat a hasty retreat, rather than just magically swapping armour in five seconds flat!
The day CCP wrecks Eve with some childish notion like tearing the armor plating off an entire battleship (in mid-space mind you!) to replace with something else is the day I quit.
Originally posted by Zuko Make some ships that triple the shield regen of all friendly ships within 10km and
Like this one? Name: Medium Shield Transporter I Description: Transfers shield power over to the target ship, aiding in its defense. Shield Transfer Range: 5000m Shield Bonus: 160
some ships that increase the range of lasers with 20% of all friendly ships within 10km.
Like this? Name: Remote Sensor Booster I Description: Can only be activated on target to increases their scan resolution and boosts their targeting range. Targeting Range Multiplier: 1.5x Scan Resolution Bonus: -50%
When those things are entered into the game, then you have group defensive capabilities and then you also has the basis for strategies and tactics.
??? See above.
No the targeted ship is not equal to all ships. Eve is currently operating close to a zero-sum system, which means you can equip those modules on 3 ships and have them target eachother and the outcome would be close to the same when all three ships just had equipped self-only versions. You can use the items, but since the effect is close to zero, then noone does. Its clear that no smart person would have one ship relying on another without a gain.
Originally posted by kreischweide you can load turrets and lasers with alot of ammo and the market isnt all that is. there are also alot of named items not listed there. even lasers have about 6 diffrent crystals you can put it, with about 10 diffrent turrets, that would make 60(?) possible choices for your current weapon that differs in speed, range, damage and so on. isnt that enough?
No, but is still way too limiting. Make the same type of customizations possible for shield boosters, shield extenders, drainers, cargo expanders, overdrive injectors and so. Either that or make 10x more items available that differs in other ways than the already existing ones. The current item collection in Eve is like playing chess with some of the officers missing from the game.
Originally posted by Zuko I have not found a single way to change items in-space, so I would love to hear how you exchange a like basic reactive plating module with a basic magnetic plating.
Uh, this isn't a missing feature, it's a design decision, and a good one that requires planning and careful execution of tactics.
Being able to change setup on the fly is rather considered a cheap cop-out. In this game you need to consider your setup BEFORE actually engaging, and knowing when to beat a hasty retreat, rather than just magically swapping armour in five seconds flat!
The day CCP wrecks Eve with some childish notion like tearing the armor plating off an entire battleship (in mid-space mind you!) to replace with something else is the day I quit.
The horror...the horror... *shakes head*
planning and tactic?? How do you plan on something that are unknown to you? How do you make a tactic without knowning the circumstances you will be operating in? Its not possible.
Adding the option to change setup when engaged in battle actually adds more planning and tactics.
And of course if should not be a free change. A few seconds per item exchange and maybe limited to only one item exchange happening at any time.
planning and tactic?? How do you plan on something that are unknown to you? How do you make a tactic without knowning the circumstances you will be operating in? Its not possible.
It certainly is possible, but it is a challenge. It is what every military organization on Earth currently does - estimate and try to figure out what you opponent is planning and trying to come up with a good counter to this.
The nice thing about this is that Eve works more like reality than many other games. You have to consider your tactics carefully and analyze your opponent, if you equip for short or long range combat, when to attack and when to retreat, etc. THAT is tactics, not switching modules at the flip of a button.
Note also that tactics does not equal equipment. Equipment influences what tactics you have available to you, ie long-range weapons lets you use stand-off tactics and snipe at your enemy. If you simply can swap that long-range weapons for medium or short range weapons...well, you have no need for tactics, you can do everything equally well.
Adding the option to change setup when engaged in battle actually adds more planning and tactics.
It most certainly does not! It makes averyone able to instantly adapt to any situation without any regard to tactics or pplanning whatsoever. Merely load every conceivable module and stand by with the switching button does not spell planning and tactics.
And of course if should not be a free change. A few seconds per item exchange and maybe limited to only one item exchange happening at any time.
I know it's a game and all, but I like it when I don't need to put my Suspension-of-disbelief Booster at max every step of the way.
Ripping several hundred tons of spot-welded armour off a several kilometers long battleship and replacing it with another type is quite hard to imagine done in a station. Imagine it done in space in a few seconds! Ack, please no!
As Heartland mentions, it's what every other military org on Earth does.
EVE is very realistic, yes you will for once in your life actually need to send get a spy to infiltrate the corporation or alliance that you'll be facing, or send recon ships. Come up with how your firegroups will functions, split yourself into squadrons, have leaders, place your various ship types the in the right distances. Of course to pull it off proplery you'll want to be running something like TS in the background so that if you encounter something unexpected suddenly you can quickly deal out orders.
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EVE-Addict Anjelle [Freelancer Union]
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments. I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^ But that's just me.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments. I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^ But that's just me.
Originally posted by Zuko Eve is in the current state a singleplayer game with player-controlled monsters, its not really a MMOG. Most other MMOGs require teamwork and tactics to accomplish something big and Eve will need to aim for this or it will slowly die out due to bored players.
This is the most retarded and insulting thing anyone can say about EVE. If you can't find the player-interaction dependance in EVE you've got issues. Player interaction is more heavily emphasized in EVE than it is in any other MMOG right now, that's why so many young nerd-like gamers are often turned off by it (because they don't know how to deal with people so they never become amazing at it) whilst smarter, more social and mature players do stick around in it (because they have time for a life of their own since it doesn't depend on powerleveling and other useless crap like that, plus it makes you think).
True it is insulting and its insulting because Eve is NOT emphasizing on player interaction. There is currently nothing you can't do in Eve by adding more ships. If you can't handle an encounter, just add another battleship or two. Other MMOGs are heavily relying on player interaction, which is clearly shown by many of the situations that can not be succesfully done without a clear strategy and groupmembers that react on eachothers actions. EQ have plenty of encounters that can be done with 30 or so players, if they know how to work together and interact on EACHOTHERs actions. 100 players trying the same event in EQ would not successed, but in Eve they would.
Nerd-like players are people that are thorough in their approach to a game and make a deep research of it, which then shows that Eve has very little challenge for the mind to offer. I can program a simple macro-runner to play Eve in all situations, including ninja-mining in 0.0. The only part that would be somewhat difficult would be combat situations, where it should make decission on whether to fight or flee. I'm thoroughly convinced you have absolutely nothing to come with at this point. Go talk to Kayscha, who is actually arguing in a manner that makes more sense and admits that EVE is not at all a single player game, your stupidity amazes me, I'd love to keep on arguing but I can already tell you're the type of person that will feel forced to respond even though you don't have anything useful to add, you're just coming with unsupported comments.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments. I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^ But that's just me.
Originally posted by tck_tokyo I'm thoroughly convinced you have absolutely nothing to come with at this point. Go talk to Kayscha, who is actually arguing in a manner that makes more sense and admits that EVE is not at all a single player game, your stupidity amazes me, I'd love to keep on arguing but I can already tell you're the type of person that will feel forced to respond even though you don't have anything useful to add, you're just coming with unsupported comments.
If you want to listen to Kayscha, then its fine by me. We are pretty much saying the same thing, which is "Eve lacks content in its current state".
If you have read my posts then you might have noticed that I use the word "current" alot, which is because I do not think the game concept in Eve is bad, but the game does just not live up to that concept yet. This is also the reason for this thread. Its not to ditch Eve, but the bring Eve into the right place. The current "worshipping" of Eve on the MMORPG.com rating list might very well backfire in a few weeks, when many of the trial players from here have been trying the game with great expectation, due to the great ratings, but find the problem spots, that are currently quite big and common.
And the singleplayer remark I made has been completely misunderstood by you. Try to read the remark in the context of the entire post, then you might have understood that the thing I requested was more interaction with other players.
Originally posted by Zuko If you want to listen to Kayscha, then its fine by me. We are pretty much saying the same thing, which is "Eve lacks content in its current state".
If you have read my posts then you might have noticed that I use the word "current" alot, which is because I do not think the game concept in Eve is bad, but the game does just not live up to that concept yet. This is also the reason for this thread. Its not to ditch Eve, but the bring Eve into the right place. The current "worshipping" of Eve on the MMORPG.com rating list might very well backfire in a few weeks, when many of the trial players from here have been trying the game with great expectation, due to the great ratings, but find the problem spots, that are currently quite big and common.
And the singleplayer remark I made has been completely misunderstood by you. Try to read the remark in the context of the entire post, then you might have understood that the thing I requested was more interaction with other players.
lol, you made your point about you thinking the game sucks....
why are you still posting about it?
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Originally posted by Zuko I have not found a single way to change items in-space, so I would love to hear how you exchange a like basic reactive plating module with a basic magnetic plating.
Uh, this isn't a missing feature, it's a design decision, and a good one that requires planning and careful execution of tactics.
Being able to change setup on the fly is rather considered a cheap cop-out. In this game you need to consider your setup BEFORE actually engaging, and knowing when to beat a hasty retreat, rather than just magically swapping armour in five seconds flat!
The day CCP wrecks Eve with some childish notion like tearing the armor plating off an entire battleship (in mid-space mind you!) to replace with something else is the day I quit.
The horror...the horror... *shakes head*
planning and tactic?? How do you plan on something that are unknown to you? How do you make a tactic without knowning the circumstances you will be operating in? Its not possible.
Adding the option to change setup when engaged in battle actually adds more planning and tactics.
And of course if should not be a free change. A few seconds per item exchange and maybe limited to only one item exchange happening at any time.
Heartland has it right.
Imagine a Bradley Tank, or the USS Liberty, or USS Arizona, or an F-14 jet, or Stealth Jet, while in battle suddently and instantly, removing all its armor, then changing all its armor to something else?!?
Imagine being able to change your car engine while driving on the highway, instantly changing it to something else? (Go from a 4 cyl to an 8 cyl for example)
In a game like EQ it is plausable because a soldier, warrior, paladin, etc... could theoretically (sp) reach in their backpack and strip their armor off and put something else on. But no Barney way could/would/should a spaceship be able to instantly change its armor while in battle.
The way EvE has it now makes faaar more sense - If a ship wants to change its armor, it needs to dock in a station and have work done on it. EvE is not EQ. As I said in my other thread about playing and trying EvE - put all experience in Fantasy-themed/Sword and Sorcery-themed games out of your mind while trying and playing EvE. It is in SPACE! There are planets, astroids, suns, spaceships. 1,000,000% different from riding a horse, using a sword, shooting a bow and arrow, playing a guitar, using a dagger, etc...
I've read your entire pathetic article Zuko, and I still think your arguments are crap. I've told you why and so have a few dozen other players. I don't agree with everything K. has to say but the way you put everything is absolutely screwed.
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EVE-Addict Anjelle [Freelancer Union]
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments. I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^ But that's just me.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments. I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^ But that's just me.
Hear hear! Played EVE for just over a month and its the best I've tried so far.
I love the way EVE's time based training, steep learning curve and, at times, slow moving pace keeps most powergamers away. And makes sure that the people that do stay tend to be mature, patient people that you can talk to - haven't seen l33t speak yet (exept as a joke or from trial players that soon disapear)...
And the way you always need to prepare for the unexpected and think twice before undocking (atleast in low sec space) is just one more pluss in my opinion. There are some FOTMs and inbalances/exploits I guess, but nowere near what I've seen in other games.
And even the cutthroat pirates, scammers and whatnot add to the flavor. I just love the way the whole game seems to say - take care or be prepared to take the heat, no one will cry over you....
Comments
Wow, lots of comments.
I will try to answer some of them.
Try to read the comments and you will get the true picture.
The rating value seems to be off for sure and its probably because those that love the game rate it to a pure 10 and those that do not like the game, but not hate it, rate it truely to their opinions.
I do not think Eve is a love or hate game, but more so a love or don't care game.
5000 systems with an odd number of stations, fugitive hideouts, asteroid belts, and a few ships and sentry guns are not 5000 units of "content", its 5000 instances of the same few content units, ie. stations, fugitive hideouts, asteroid belts, and a few ships and sentry guns.
Having 8 different cargo expanders that only differ in the expansion size and maybe a little in the speed/hull-structure loss does not really open up that much for a big discussion on what is the best one.
I come from other MMOGs that have several different slots for gear on the toon (=ships in Eve) and each slot have thousands, if not tens of thousands of items that can be equipped in that slot with many different combinations of stats.
most of the MMOGs even offer the player an option to enhance the items even more to his specific wishes, which makes it even more challenging to get the best setup.
These other MMOGs usually also offer the oppertunity to change setup just before the fight or maybe even under, so you can improve your chances, which makes the fights different from time to time.
Eve is simply missing many of the layers of user configuration that many other MMOGs provide, which makes Eve quite simple to an experienced player.
Wow, I am so not impressed.
I am used to items with several stats, both good and bad ones.
Eve items only have a specific set of items and they are scaling nicely, so its easy to tell which item is the best one.
There are no really hard decision on what to equip.
If you just researched the game a bit and used the few Eve waebsites available, then everything would be clear to you.
I reached 5 in several before I stopped.
I was able to make a perfect refine with no waste and no station fees, I was close to being able to do prefect scrapmetal refining too, and I was doing research when I stopped too.
This is the most retarded and insulting thing anyone can say about EVE. If you can't find the player-interaction dependance in EVE you've got issues. Player interaction is more heavily emphasized in EVE than it is in any other MMOG right now, that's why so many young nerd-like gamers are often turned off by it (because they don't know how to deal with people so they never become amazing at it) whilst smarter, more social and mature players do stick around in it (because they have time for a life of their own since it doesn't depend on powerleveling and other useless crap like that, plus it makes you think).
True it is insulting and its insulting because Eve is NOT emphasizing on player interaction.
There is currently nothing you can't do in Eve by adding more ships.
If you can't handle an encounter, just add another battleship or two.
Other MMOGs are heavily relying on player interaction, which is clearly shown by many of the situations that can not be succesfully done without a clear strategy and groupmembers that react on eachothers actions.
EQ have plenty of encounters that can be done with 30 or so players, if they know how to work together and interact on EACHOTHERs actions. 100 players trying the same event in EQ would not successed, but in Eve they would.
Nerd-like players are people that are thorough in their approach to a game and make a deep research of it, which then shows that Eve has very little challenge for the mind to offer.
I can program a simple macro-runner to play Eve in all situations, including ninja-mining in 0.0.
The only part that would be somewhat difficult would be combat situations, where it should make decission on whether to fight or flee.
A stuck bug is easily fixed, but it still takes time to fix and due to many such easily fixed bugs, then the more complicated bugs are ignored.
Stuck bugs might not be common, but bugs with agents missions that needs a reset or insurance claims from ships that needs to be repackaged, because rats and asteroid fields become invisible are common and just as time consuming.
Its actually quite easy to compare CS and Eve in the current state.
Excahnge the toons in CS with ships and you pretty much have it.
Bulletproof vests would be armor in Eve and HP would be structure in Eve.
Guns would well be Guns in Eve.
What Eve is missing is something to add objects on the falt map, like a ship that can repair other ships (something like a medic in FPS games), ships that can make it harder to target or shoot ships in its surrounding area (much like a player that turns off the light in a room in FPS games), but also ships that improves the targetting and shooting (much like a player with a big flashlight
).
The only group defensive capability I have seen so far in Eve is when ships hide behind another ship in order to fool the missile hit routine.
A quite common bug seems to be objects in space that become invisible, which includes rats.
They can still fire and jam you, but you can not target or even see them.
Only way to solve this bug seems to be through a repackage of your ship and petition to get your insurance fee back, which quickly gets annoying when you have to do it several times on a day, if you are not so unlucky that the invisible rats kills you instead, which makes it impossible for the CS team to refund anything.
Sounds like many things to do, but hunt NPC is just hunting, pirate is just hunting, bounty hunt is just hunting, guard is pretty much also just hunting, enforce law is also hunting and agent missions can be hunting too.
The only difference between all these types of hunting is whether its a NPC or PC opponent.
NPC opponents always act the same way. PC opponents are a bit more challenging, but if you are too powerful, then they usually flee and if you are not powerful, then they beat you down.
I find even fights are rare, since just one of the parties has to think the opponent is too powerful.
I am missing group defensive capabilities and synergi effects to make PC battles interesting and actually give a benefit to teamwork.
The current PC battles could just as easily be Counter-strike fights, where you just entered a server with complete strangers and your only contribution is to shoot at the opponents.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
As you are stating there is numerous ways of making a defensive setup on a ship, but now do the same thing for a group instead of a single ship.
I bet you would make pretty much all the ship have the same defensive setup and you would not be able to change a defensive setup on one ship because you made a change on another.
Eve group combats are nothing but a bunch of ships fighting the same bunch of enemy ships.
Make some ships that triple the shield regen of all friendly ships within 10km and some ships that increase the range of lasers with 20% of all friendly ships within 10km.
Now you have 2 ships that can improve the effect of a group within those 10km radius and the effects listed here represent both an offensive and defensive group capability.
The group now has to protect stay together and protect its enhancing ships and the enemy can now choose to either kill the group with brute force or by making attacks on the enhancer ships in order to weaken the group.
Similar effects can be made with missiles (like area jamming), all turret guns (damage, range, targetting speed, tracking, rate of fire andcap usage, which should be changable in both an offensive and defensive way). Shield/armor/hull should be repairably by repairships, which would make a hidden repair camp an option too and this would be something for an opponent to track down and take out.
When those things are entered into the game, then you have group defensive capabilities and then you also has the basis for strategies and tactics.
Its not hard to count the numbers of different slots on a ship.
Low, Medium and High, although High power slots can be missiles or turret slots, so 4 different slot types.
EQ has 22 slots.
A quick look at the market, Escrow and Eve-DB shows quite low numbers of items.
I would say around 1000 items totally to be equipped in the those 4 slots types.
EQ has more than 1000 per slot.
The items Eve has are series of items, where f.ex. a turret series consist of 4 turrets with varying names and a 0.1 increase in some stat, like damage, which clearly ranks items in that series and makes choosing one quite simple.
Eve has no series of items where damage is increase on one and at the same time the shield regen is decreased, and another item that increase the shield, but then decrease the rate of fire for lasers.
All items in Eve is straight forward. You get faster targetting and it will cost you some cap and powergrid. The only other items to give faster targetting is from the same series, so you just save 1 unit in powergrid or one unit in cap usage or something like that. And next step would be 1 unit better.
Only item I have seen that can be somewhat altered in effect is turrets and missile launchers, which can be loaded with different kind of ammo.
I have not seen a single item that can be altered to in anyway besides that.
A 100MN Afterburner II can not be altered to some other a 100MN Afterburner II, as far as I know.
I have not found a single way to change items in-space, so I would love to hear how you exchange a like basic reactive plating module with a basic magnetic plating.
Only way I have found so far is to land on a station, which is exactly what I wish to prevent.
Like this one?
Name: Medium Shield Transporter I
Description: Transfers shield power over to the target ship, aiding in its defense.
Shield Transfer Range: 5000m
Shield Bonus: 160
Like this?
Name: Remote Sensor Booster I
Description: Can only be activated on target to increases their scan resolution and boosts their targeting range.
Targeting Range Multiplier: 1.5x
Scan Resolution Bonus: -50%
???
See above.
you can load turrets and lasers with alot of ammo and the market isnt all that is. there are also alot of named items not listed there. even lasers have about 6 diffrent crystals you can put it, with about 10 diffrent turrets, that would make 60(?) possible choices for your current weapon that differs in speed, range, damage and so on. isnt that enough?
Uh, this isn't a missing feature, it's a design decision, and a good one that requires planning and careful execution of tactics.
Being able to change setup on the fly is rather considered a cheap cop-out. In this game you need to consider your setup BEFORE actually engaging, and knowing when to beat a hasty retreat, rather than just magically swapping armour in five seconds flat!
The day CCP wrecks Eve with some childish notion like tearing the armor plating off an entire battleship (in mid-space mind you!) to replace with something else is the day I quit.
The horror...the horror... *shakes head*
Like this one?
Name: Medium Shield Transporter I
Description: Transfers shield power over to the target ship, aiding in its defense.
Shield Transfer Range: 5000m
Shield Bonus: 160
Like this?
Name: Remote Sensor Booster I
Description: Can only be activated on target to increases their scan resolution and boosts their targeting range.
Targeting Range Multiplier: 1.5x
Scan Resolution Bonus: -50%
???
See above.
No the targeted ship is not equal to all ships.
Eve is currently operating close to a zero-sum system, which means you can equip those modules on 3 ships and have them target eachother and the outcome would be close to the same when all three ships just had equipped self-only versions.
You can use the items, but since the effect is close to zero, then noone does.
Its clear that no smart person would have one ship relying on another without a gain.
No, but is still way too limiting.
Make the same type of customizations possible for shield boosters, shield extenders, drainers, cargo expanders, overdrive injectors and so.
Either that or make 10x more items available that differs in other ways than the already existing ones.
The current item collection in Eve is like playing chess with some of the officers missing from the game.
Uh, this isn't a missing feature, it's a design decision, and a good one that requires planning and careful execution of tactics.
Being able to change setup on the fly is rather considered a cheap cop-out. In this game you need to consider your setup BEFORE actually engaging, and knowing when to beat a hasty retreat, rather than just magically swapping armour in five seconds flat!
The day CCP wrecks Eve with some childish notion like tearing the armor plating off an entire battleship (in mid-space mind you!) to replace with something else is the day I quit.
The horror...the horror... *shakes head*
planning and tactic??
How do you plan on something that are unknown to you?
How do you make a tactic without knowning the circumstances you will be operating in?
Its not possible.
Adding the option to change setup when engaged in battle actually adds more planning and tactics.
And of course if should not be a free change.
A few seconds per item exchange and maybe limited to only one item exchange happening at any time.
-65 dark elf, Archoness of the Nameless.
- Tienaere Damondred, 70High Priestess of the Nameless
-Onela Damondred, Necro/Ranger of Guild Wars.
-Onela, Magician/Wizard of Ragnarok.
It certainly is possible, but it is a challenge. It is what every military organization on Earth currently does - estimate and try to figure out what you opponent is planning and trying to come up with a good counter to this.
The nice thing about this is that Eve works more like reality than many other games. You have to consider your tactics carefully and analyze your opponent, if you equip for short or long range combat, when to attack and when to retreat, etc. THAT is tactics, not switching modules at the flip of a button.
Note also that tactics does not equal equipment. Equipment influences what tactics you have available to you, ie long-range weapons lets you use stand-off tactics and snipe at your enemy. If you simply can swap that long-range weapons for medium or short range weapons...well, you have no need for tactics, you can do everything equally well.
It most certainly does not! It makes averyone able to instantly adapt to any situation without any regard to tactics or pplanning whatsoever. Merely load every conceivable module and stand by with the switching button does not spell planning and tactics.
I know it's a game and all, but I like it when I don't need to put my Suspension-of-disbelief Booster at max every step of the way.
Ripping several hundred tons of spot-welded armour off a several kilometers long battleship and replacing it with another type is quite hard to imagine done in a station. Imagine it done in space in a few seconds! Ack, please no!
Not possible to plan Zuko?
As Heartland mentions, it's what every other military org on Earth does.
EVE is very realistic, yes you will for once in your life actually need to send get a spy to infiltrate the corporation or alliance that you'll be facing, or send recon ships. Come up with how your firegroups will functions, split yourself into squadrons, have leaders, place your various ship types the in the right distances. Of course to pull it off proplery you'll want to be running something like TS in the background so that if you encounter something unexpected suddenly you can quickly deal out orders.
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EVE-Addict
Anjelle [Freelancer Union]
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
There is currently nothing you can't do in Eve by adding more ships.
If you can't handle an encounter, just add another battleship or two.
Other MMOGs are heavily relying on player interaction, which is clearly shown by many of the situations that can not be succesfully done without a clear strategy and groupmembers that react on eachothers actions.
EQ have plenty of encounters that can be done with 30 or so players, if they know how to work together and interact on EACHOTHERs actions. 100 players trying the same event in EQ would not successed, but in Eve they would.
Nerd-like players are people that are thorough in their approach to a game and make a deep research of it, which then shows that Eve has very little challenge for the mind to offer.
I can program a simple macro-runner to play Eve in all situations, including ninja-mining in 0.0.
The only part that would be somewhat difficult would be combat situations, where it should make decission on whether to fight or flee.
I'm thoroughly convinced you have absolutely nothing to come with at this point. Go talk to Kayscha, who is actually arguing in a manner that makes more sense and admits that EVE is not at all a single player game, your stupidity amazes me, I'd love to keep on arguing but I can already tell you're the type of person that will feel forced to respond even though you don't have anything useful to add, you're just coming with unsupported comments.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
If you want to listen to Kayscha, then its fine by me.
We are pretty much saying the same thing, which is "Eve lacks content in its current state".
If you have read my posts then you might have noticed that I use the word "current" alot, which is because I do not think the game concept in Eve is bad, but the game does just not live up to that concept yet.
This is also the reason for this thread. Its not to ditch Eve, but the bring Eve into the right place.
The current "worshipping" of Eve on the MMORPG.com rating list might very well backfire in a few weeks, when many of the trial players from here have been trying the game with great expectation, due to the great ratings, but find the problem spots, that are currently quite big and common.
And the singleplayer remark I made has been completely misunderstood by you.
Try to read the remark in the context of the entire post, then you might have understood that the thing I requested was more interaction with other players.
lol, you made your point about you thinking the game sucks....
why are you still posting about it?
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Uh, this isn't a missing feature, it's a design decision, and a good one that requires planning and careful execution of tactics.
Being able to change setup on the fly is rather considered a cheap cop-out. In this game you need to consider your setup BEFORE actually engaging, and knowing when to beat a hasty retreat, rather than just magically swapping armour in five seconds flat!
The day CCP wrecks Eve with some childish notion like tearing the armor plating off an entire battleship (in mid-space mind you!) to replace with something else is the day I quit.
The horror...the horror... *shakes head*
planning and tactic??
How do you plan on something that are unknown to you?
How do you make a tactic without knowning the circumstances you will be operating in?
Its not possible.
Adding the option to change setup when engaged in battle actually adds more planning and tactics.
And of course if should not be a free change.
A few seconds per item exchange and maybe limited to only one item exchange happening at any time.
Heartland has it right.
Imagine a Bradley Tank, or the USS Liberty, or USS Arizona, or an F-14 jet, or Stealth Jet, while in battle suddently and instantly, removing all its armor, then changing all its armor to something else?!?
Imagine being able to change your car engine while driving on the highway, instantly changing it to something else? (Go from a 4 cyl to an 8 cyl for example)
In a game like EQ it is plausable because a soldier, warrior, paladin, etc... could theoretically (sp) reach in their backpack and strip their armor off and put something else on. But no Barney way could/would/should a spaceship be able to instantly change its armor while in battle.
The way EvE has it now makes faaar more sense - If a ship wants to change its armor, it needs to dock in a station and have work done on it. EvE is not EQ. As I said in my other thread about playing and trying EvE - put all experience in Fantasy-themed/Sword and Sorcery-themed games out of your mind while trying and playing EvE. It is in SPACE! There are planets, astroids, suns, spaceships. 1,000,000% different from riding a horse, using a sword, shooting a bow and arrow, playing a guitar, using a dagger, etc...
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EVE-Addict
Anjelle [Freelancer Union]
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
Hear hear! Played EVE for just over a month and its the best I've tried so far.
I love the way EVE's time based training, steep learning curve and, at times, slow moving pace keeps most powergamers away. And makes sure that the people that do stay tend to be mature, patient people that you can talk to - haven't seen l33t speak yet (exept as a joke or from trial players that soon disapear)...
And the way you always need to prepare for the unexpected and think twice before undocking (atleast in low sec space) is just one more pluss in my opinion. There are some FOTMs and inbalances/exploits I guess, but nowere near what I've seen in other games.
And even the cutthroat pirates, scammers and whatnot add to the flavor. I just love the way the whole game seems to say - take care or be prepared to take the heat, no one will cry over you....
My 2 cents - EVE ratings are to low.....