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Scenarios != RvR
dtan27
Member UncommonPosts: 32
Come on people, get your terminology correct here.
I keep seeing people talk about how good RvR is and whatnot, but many of them aren't talking about RvR at all! If you're in a "scenario" which is an INSTANCED BATTLEGROUND, this is not RvR at all!
You talk about balanced RvR, well, duh, those "scenario's" are just like WoW BGs, they're balanced because both sides (for the most part) have equal numbers.
When we say that RvR is going to be unbalanced because of population problems, we are talking about World PvP which is what is known as RvR where the purpose of World PvP is to take Battlefield Objectives and Keeps. When one side outnumbers the other greatly, what tends to happen is that the more populated side can have two groups roaming around. One to take keeps, and the other to keep the enemy at bay. (Remember those RvR battles in DAOC where people would fight at the entrances and no one could make a proper push?)
Scenarios on the other hand (I'm not really sure if they help in the war effort, maybe they do) are just quick PvP tidbits. You can queue up with your premade group of 10 and have it is, just like WoW. There's plenty of variety in these though, from typical Hold the Area type games (think Arathi Basin) to some more complex ones (there's one in Troll Country which is somewhat like CTF).
On a side note I don't really like having Scenarios in the game. It's all good and fun to have them, but I feel they take the focus away from World PvP. I'm not sure how this plays out at the higher levels, but you hardly ever see any opposition out in the lower levels because everyone just queue's up for Scenarios where it's pretty much instant action.
Comments
Having come into BETA at 3.1 I have to agree with you on somethings and disagree on others
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The majority of the incoming retail players do need to realize that this games health and longevity is largely based on the population of both sides. BETA does not have a population cap for either side where as they have plans for one in release. So this has lead to a bloated number of Destruction vs Order. I came into this game wanting to be a Dark Elf Sorceress and nothing in my mind was going to change that for me. I thought it would play out like WoW and the more mature and older players would lean towards Destro and the casuals and what not would filter into Order to bolster the ranks of the die-hard org Order Guilds. I was wrong...
Despite what anyone says Beta is a great indication of how the numbers would be for both sides on release. Most invitees where probably randomly generated via Mythic so you got a diverse population that might be smaller then what a launch server will have but still holds the overall makeup of the larger release population. From my experience playing on both sides extensivly Order hands down draws in the better players, the players looking for a challenge, the ones wanting to be the underdogs and fight against the surge. In all my years of online gaming from FPS to MMO's (all the big ones I wont list them they are obvious) I have not played with a nicer group of strangers nor seem them pull together against the Destro Zerg. Bright Wizards are nasty, and I do mean nasty, AoE'ers of doom... yet nightly dozens of destro will stand right on top of each other and be decimated by myself and one other BW. This isnt an issue of Imbalance more so then a lesson in MMO 101: If you are standing in an AoE... MOVE. But like clockwork every night I and a few other BW's are the driving force pushing back numbers 3x that of Order. Dont get em wrong our healers are almost always pro at their jobs, the tanks do their part... etc etc.
You would think BETA testers would be experienced MMO players but at times I shake my head in disgust at Destro as I rush in laydown a Hex, Detonate Hex hitting 10 players for 300+ damage a second for 8 seconds rushing back and laying down an Improved Rein of Fire AoE that has the most unmistakable graphic known to man.... and watch them stand their and die. Literally. Order doesnt bunch up we move, we spread out... in short we dont have the zerg but we have the brains we have to when at times your fighting 2:3 odds. Im sorry I play games for a challenge and in Beta especially 3.2 playing Destruction was about as entertaining as farming faction in WoW. Order has evolved fast just the overall quality of the people that are fighting next to me seems to get better each week.
About Scenarios killing open RvR... I dont know man I dont see it. RvR in Tier 4 is so much flamming fun I dont even bother queing up for Scenarios. To hell with not maximizing my Renown intake to its fullest but come on there is no way a Scenario can top a well played Keep Defense or especially those moments in Pragg when I turned a blind corner and rushing down the street at me in full charge was over 70+ Destruction players buffing on the move (I literally spit coffee out on my keyboard in shock and surprise) I turned right around and tried to type out "OMG RUN!" but it was such a flamming rush that it came out like "PMGH REUN!1" THis happened on my first night in Praag. I currently am on a paid vacation from work that is 3.5 weeks long alright, Im a single gamer with nobody to watch but myself and the Open RvR in this game consumes over 14 hours of my day its a miracle I even go to the gym. The above incident with the Destro charge I mentioned... the rush still hits me sometimes even after 3 solid weeks of nothing but sleep, Open RVR, food and 1 hour at the gym 4 days a week. If its any indication my WAR PvP carreer will exceed my WoW PvP career easily.
What IM trying to get at is.... I wouldnt be concerned about Open RvR... I would worry about the health of scenarios.
Don't keeps start at Tier 2?
Besides, if everyone is in scenarios, makes it easier for you and a few friends to capture them (because they're worth more than scenarios when it comes to Victory Points).
Also, RvR is PvP and PvE - everything you do - but most people do think of world PvP when they think of RvR, thanks to DAoC.
they are RvR because they effect the overall WAR. sure its not world PvP, but its still part of the rest of the game.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Indeed. RvR = Realm versus Realm. Scenarios are part of the realm versus realm war.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
How can it not be RVR?
Your RVR flag is on, the result will affect who control that area.
It is not "OPEN" RVR, but it is still RVR.
You guys aren't understanding what I am saying though. Imagine if there were no scenarios at all. People might actually be in the World PvPing instead of just queueing up for a Scenario.
Remember how DAOC was before they added battlegrounds? People would actually go out and roam about in the RvR areas and fight in the world. I'm not seeing that right now.
Think about it like this. Let's say Order has 100 players, and Destruction has 150 players.
Now lets say that everyone queues up for a Scenario. 10 Scenarios get formed (with 10 players on each side).
Now there are 50 Destruction players waiting on a queue. What do they do while they are waiting? Well, they go and take some battlefield objectives, and they get 0 opposition because everyone on Order is playing in a Scenario.
I think this is clearly what is happening in the closed beta servers right now because on Order at least on my server, I can't for the life of me find a Keep that we own. Or one that we own LONG enough to go buy any gear. It seems like the only way to get gear if you're on the underpopulated side is to organize a group of people big enough to capture a Keep in an underpopulated zone. Once you capture it, make sure you buy everything you need, because sure enough it's not gonna be there the next day.
yes, if every single order player joins a scenario at the same time destruction won't have anyone to fight in world PvP. but I'm in beta and that just doesn't happen. there is always someone to group with in empire/chaos. and almost always someone to group with in elf/dwarf lands. seeing as there are always destruction to fight that means they always have a group too.
what are you saying? that EVERYONE will do BGs? thats just not going to happen, it will all work fine.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
On Warpstorm at least in Tier 4 its not an issue almost anytime I want I can waltz into a keep in Tier 4 and we push back the mindless Destro Zerg nightly even vastly outnumbered. For some reason WAR is the exact opposite of WoW... the idiots and the morons are highly concentrated in the Destruction Camp and are for the most part few and far between on the Order side. Open RvR in WAR, especially in T4, is so much farking fun I dont bother with scenarios.
The true question is do you have the talent and balls to play Order? Because Order is going to need all the help it can get to fight the mindless mass zerg tactics of Destro (from my experience).
I think I do understand.
The topic is called 'Scenarios != RvR' and you say people need to get the terminology right, stating that scenarios aren't RvR. But they are, by definition.
Then you resume with an explanation why you don't like scenarios and why they won't work in your opinion, and how everyone should be playing open field PvP, which is, regarding the topic, off topic. But it's an opinion. And people can agree or disagree. That's not what I commented on; I only commented on the topic.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO