Well Zerging is a viable strategy because it's the simplest and fastest to execute. However if Zerging in WAR is a dominant strategy in RvR then that would be terrible.
Well it would only be terrible for players buying into the hype that Warhammer is supposed to be a game based on skill. So if the dominant strategy is the one that requires no skill and thusly rewards players that have no skill with better gear to the point where it just becomes World of Warhammer then what's the point?
And if you think about it, World of Warhammer may be the direction that Mythic was going for all this time because such a game would probbably sell more than a game that only gave RvR rewards to people that deserved it.
Well Zerging is a viable strategy because it's the simplest and fastest to execute. However if Zerging in WAR is a dominant strategy in RvR then that would be terrible. Well it would only be terrible for players buying into the hype that Warhammer is supposed to be a game based on skill. So if the dominant strategy is the one that requires no skill and thusly rewards players that have no skill with better gear to the point where it just becomes World of Warhammer then what's the point? And if you think about it, World of Warhammer may be the direction that Mythic was going for all this time because such a game would probbably sell more than a game that only gave RvR rewards to people that deserved it.
If you want a bunch of no-skill morons in your zerg, that's fine by me. If I have a huge group of players I want those players to be at least relatively skilled. What I don't want is to go up against a smaller force that has terrain advantage. But that's what'll happen, because otherwise the smaller force has no chance.
Well Zerging is a viable strategy because it's the simplest and fastest to execute. However if Zerging in WAR is a dominant strategy in RvR then that would be terrible. Well it would only be terrible for players buying into the hype that Warhammer is supposed to be a game based on skill. So if the dominant strategy is the one that requires no skill and thusly rewards players that have no skill with better gear to the point where it just becomes World of Warhammer then what's the point? And if you think about it, World of Warhammer may be the direction that Mythic was going for all this time because such a game would probbably sell more than a game that only gave RvR rewards to people that deserved it.
Destruction zerges all the time since they usually have a larger population but even still Order gives them a run for their money. I like to call them Order and Disorder since that is usually how they both act.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Because the tactics I've heard people mention just make me laugh... It seems that the only real tactic of getting anything done is to zerg here or zerg there ..... Would love to hear some other opinions with actual practical tactics...
well dude if you don't like it go play a different game. No one is stopping you, infact people would push you away.
Well Zerging is a viable strategy because it's the simplest and fastest to execute. However if Zerging in WAR is a dominant strategy in RvR then that would be terrible. Well it would only be terrible for players buying into the hype that Warhammer is supposed to be a game based on skill. So if the dominant strategy is the one that requires no skill and thusly rewards players that have no skill with better gear to the point where it just becomes World of Warhammer then what's the point? And if you think about it, World of Warhammer may be the direction that Mythic was going for all this time because such a game would probbably sell more than a game that only gave RvR rewards to people that deserved it.
Destruction zerges all the time since they usually have a larger population but even still Order gives them a run for their money. I like to call them Order and Disorder since that is usually how they both act.
Then I would say people are really RPing there asses of
Because the tactics I've heard people mention just make me laugh... It seems that the only real tactic of getting anything done is to zerg here or zerg there ..... Would love to hear some other opinions with actual practical tactics...
Well using overwhelming force to overpower and/or divide the enemy just so happens to be an effective method of winning the game, especially in one where everyone is a newbie.
But yes, I have seen other methods used to win scenarios or RvR. No, I don't feel like getting into the niggly details.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
Well Zerging is a viable strategy because it's the simplest and fastest to execute. However if Zerging in WAR is a dominant strategy in RvR then that would be terrible. Well it would only be terrible for players buying into the hype that Warhammer is supposed to be a game based on skill. So if the dominant strategy is the one that requires no skill and thusly rewards players that have no skill with better gear to the point where it just becomes World of Warhammer then what's the point? And if you think about it, World of Warhammer may be the direction that Mythic was going for all this time because such a game would probbably sell more than a game that only gave RvR rewards to people that deserved it.
Alas, zerging seems to be just about all that the majority of the gaming public is capable of.
After all, games with "too much reading" don't appeal to the masses with access to their Mom's VISA.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Obviously if the numbers are overwhelming then yeah the team with 50 more players is going to win. I have definitely seen smaller groups take down larger ones by careful planning and good team work (and voice chat.)
Obviously if the numbers are overwhelming then yeah the team with 50 more players is going to win. I have definitely seen smaller groups take down larger ones by careful planning and good team work (and voice chat.)
Okay?
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
Well Zerging is a viable strategy because it's the simplest and fastest to execute. However if Zerging in WAR is a dominant strategy in RvR then that would be terrible. Well it would only be terrible for players buying into the hype that Warhammer is supposed to be a game based on skill. So if the dominant strategy is the one that requires no skill and thusly rewards players that have no skill with better gear to the point where it just becomes World of Warhammer then what's the point? And if you think about it, World of Warhammer may be the direction that Mythic was going for all this time because such a game would probbably sell more than a game that only gave RvR rewards to people that deserved it.
Alas, zerging seems to be just about all that the majority of the gaming public is capable of.
After all, games with "too much reading" don't appeal to the masses with access to their Mom's VISA.
I just remember the DAoC days when relic raids were typically just 1 big zerg. They'd get there and turtle up in their nice lil groups just begging to be bombed by an AoE caster. So one 8 man group could run up, bomb, taking out a good portion of their clusterfk, and proceed to dominate the scruts that didn't really know what they were doing.
A force with half the people compared to the opponent with much better tactics can beat the zerg.
If 2 zerg forces fight, the zerg with the highest number+level of people will win.
If 2 tactical forces fight, the faction with better tactics and/or numbers will win, and it will be hell of a good fight.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
A force with half the people compared to the opponent with much better tactics can beat the zerg. If 2 zerg forces fight, the zerg with the highest number+level of people will win. If 2 tactical forces fight, the faction with better tactics and/or numbers will win, and it will be hell of a good fight.
Im sorry, i dont know how much you think player skill plays a part in pvp but, there is no way tactics whill always beat zerg. That is assuming people who zerg have no skill, which is ridiculous.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Im sorry, i dont know how much you think player skill plays a part in pvp but, there is no way tactics whill always beat zerg. That is assuming people who zerg have no skill, which is ridiculous.
Re-read my post. "The force with half the people can beat a zerg with tactics".
RvR is all about tactics. Does zerg play any role? Sure it does but tactics let you win even if you are outnumbered.
Plus the definition of zerg is this "Outnumbering your opponent and using just the numbers to win"
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
well thing is. The tatics in warhammer will be like what you do in the army.
If you were a leader. You would decide were to flank were to hit the army in the middle or to the side to circle there forces from retreating. This in by means will make warhammer a tatical game.
1 side doesn't know wat the other forces is thinking.. If you keep pushing the forces back no way the battle will go anywere. Thats why you need troops to flank the back to get the healers and range dps. While you have forces tanking the front.
Actually, of everything RvR I have participated in so far there has been no Zerg. Everyone holds battle lines, tanks actually protect their healers, people try to goad one another into crossing those lines, several will break off and try to flank the enemy from the woods. There has been plenty of tactic to it, not just 2 big groups rushing into one another.
Lol by zerg i mean greater number than us , not 40 dest .
But yes yesterday me and the swordmaster + warrriorpriest got stuck in the keep cause the door respawned on us .
We fought for like 10 min inside against like easily 10 ppl . We managed to kill at least 4 before they ALL atack me and end up dieing but was still alot of fun .
BTW if you dont like the game and keep trashing it in every single post i see from you why dont you just go play wow or some game u like ?
Which game doesn't allow you to fight vs 10 people and kill 4 before you die?...
This game is supposed to be centered on tactical LOTS vs LOTS people PvP battles... and I'm looking for what exactly it provides for this... if it's tactical or what... if it's not.. it's not worth playing....
I've heard people mentioning tactics... I'm looking for them... what are they?... name a few?...
just don't give me the healer heals, tank tanks and we attack the healer first or we keep in a close group etc etc etc...
I'm talking about tactics above goldfish level... this game is supposed to be the best at this... where is it?... where are the tactics?....
And thanks for your offer to go play WoW... but I gave up a long time ago....
I'm here to talk and be convinced or to just talk... is that a problem for you?
Does my opinion hurt your eyes?
You have no intention of being convinced and dont try to tell us otherwise. You have dont nothing but trash WAR over and over on the same fking topics.
To awnser your question, zerging is always going to be apart of any game. But since you want an example of how tactics can win I'll give you one.
Being apart of a sige keep there is a front door and a back door (T2 I cant speak any higher than that, but the keeps get HUGE in T4 so there may be multiple doors). Anyway being apart of the defending side and no one brought oil ect to help defend our keep within a few min the zerg had the door down and was inside. I dont remember exact numbers but it was close to 2:1 in favor of the zerg. Once they broke the door about half of us fought inside at ground level. The other half stayed with the keep lord knowing full well they would kill all of us down below. However that was the plan. Kill us and when they move to the commander, between the commander and our people keep them busy long enough for thoes below to get back to the keep. Worked like a charm. The mindless zerg (which is what your arguing is the tactic all the time) pushed into the keep lord room and by the time thoes of us that died got back we had them trapped (yay collision detection) My tank blocked the way down after our meleeDPS got in and the nukers/healers did there work from just behind me. The ones in the zerg we didnt kill jumped off the side of the keep anyway.
No, thats not GREAT tactics but its just one example of how 2:1 odds isnt a big deal if people work as a group and use there heads. Hell had they even posted one or two people outside or in the lower part of the keep to warn people upstairs they may have succeded, but that wouldnt be zerging now would it.
There is another example I could give you of even numbers zerg vs. tactics not involving a keep, but rather destruction kicking orders ass repeatedly for a battle objective right outside of there warcamp, but by your posts you really dont care and just want ot rile people up and trash the game so I wont waste anymore space on you.
Edit: Zerging has its place. Its a freaking game after all not real world warfare. if you outnumber the oposition 5 or 6:1 there is no point in tactics, zerg the shit out of them. Hell even real world zerg could work if say the orient could somehow sneak up on another country with there full population. (No this is not a shot at china or anything, simple fact is they have alot more people than other countries.)
First off zerging is a tactic. I bring more people then you and my tactic is to use attrition to win the day. So to say "tactics wont beat zerging" is a pretty stupid statement. In my opinion the basic tactics will be broken down into 2 categories: Maneuver, and Zerging.
Zerging in my opinon is a lot like trench warfare. For a zerg to be used effectively a few things have to be maintained. The zerg must have superior numbers, AND have their opponents use the same tactic. Basicly 2 sides in their trenches taking pot shots at each other. Also a zerg can be effectively used to siege a keep, and lastly it can tie down a much larger force if they have a war camp at their back.
Now maneuver will be seen a lot less, and depending on the situation will dominate trench warfare. When zerging is used in the open with no way to force the opponent into attacking from one direction it loses all of its advantages. It will allow the side that uses it effectively to defeat their opponent quickly and decisively, but used wrong will be the complete opposite, a quick defeat.
So in my opinion zerging and maneuver will each have its place. It's not that one is better then the other, its more about using the right tactic for the job that will separate the successful war bands from the bad ones.
The OP just wants to waste people time so don't give him the pleasure:/. Seriously just let this die. No point in arguing with someone who has already made up his mind.
Like DAoC, zergs are part of the tactics. Any time you have open field RvR with high populations there will be zergs. However, there will also be many organized groups of guilds carrying out their own plans seperate from the zerg. Zerging can be fun, I don't know why it's such a dirty word. It doesn't take anything away from the "elite" VoIP guilds. They are free to roam wherever and do whatever they want. They can avoid the zerg or outflank them and maybe turn the tide. Respect the zerg and stop bitching about one of the cooler aspects of a highly populated PvP battlefield.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Comments
Well Zerging is a viable strategy because it's the simplest and fastest to execute. However if Zerging in WAR is a dominant strategy in RvR then that would be terrible.
Well it would only be terrible for players buying into the hype that Warhammer is supposed to be a game based on skill. So if the dominant strategy is the one that requires no skill and thusly rewards players that have no skill with better gear to the point where it just becomes World of Warhammer then what's the point?
And if you think about it, World of Warhammer may be the direction that Mythic was going for all this time because such a game would probbably sell more than a game that only gave RvR rewards to people that deserved it.
If you want a bunch of no-skill morons in your zerg, that's fine by me. If I have a huge group of players I want those players to be at least relatively skilled. What I don't want is to go up against a smaller force that has terrain advantage. But that's what'll happen, because otherwise the smaller force has no chance.
Destruction zerges all the time since they usually have a larger population but even still Order gives them a run for their money. I like to call them Order and Disorder since that is usually how they both act.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
well dude if you don't like it go play a different game. No one is stopping you, infact people would push you away.
Destruction zerges all the time since they usually have a larger population but even still Order gives them a run for their money. I like to call them Order and Disorder since that is usually how they both act.
Then I would say people are really RPing there asses of
Well using overwhelming force to overpower and/or divide the enemy just so happens to be an effective method of winning the game, especially in one where everyone is a newbie.
But yes, I have seen other methods used to win scenarios or RvR. No, I don't feel like getting into the niggly details.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Alas, zerging seems to be just about all that the majority of the gaming public is capable of.
After all, games with "too much reading" don't appeal to the masses with access to their Mom's VISA.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Obviously if the numbers are overwhelming then yeah the team with 50 more players is going to win. I have definitely seen smaller groups take down larger ones by careful planning and good team work (and voice chat.)
Okay?
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Alas, zerging seems to be just about all that the majority of the gaming public is capable of.
After all, games with "too much reading" don't appeal to the masses with access to their Mom's VISA.
QFT
I just remember the DAoC days when relic raids were typically just 1 big zerg. They'd get there and turtle up in their nice lil groups just begging to be bombed by an AoE caster. So one 8 man group could run up, bomb, taking out a good portion of their clusterfk, and proceed to dominate the scruts that didn't really know what they were doing.
Tanks cut down the usefulness of zerging in a big way.
Making tanks viable in rvr was one of the best things mythic did.
There may not be any DAOC style AOE CC spells but collision detection can be a poor man's CC if used in the right manner.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
A force with half the people compared to the opponent with much better tactics can beat the zerg.
If 2 zerg forces fight, the zerg with the highest number+level of people will win.
If 2 tactical forces fight, the faction with better tactics and/or numbers will win, and it will be hell of a good fight.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Im sorry, i dont know how much you think player skill plays a part in pvp but, there is no way tactics whill always beat zerg. That is assuming people who zerg have no skill, which is ridiculous.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Re-read my post. "The force with half the people can beat a zerg with tactics".
RvR is all about tactics. Does zerg play any role? Sure it does but tactics let you win even if you are outnumbered.
Plus the definition of zerg is this "Outnumbering your opponent and using just the numbers to win"
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
well thing is. The tatics in warhammer will be like what you do in the army.
If you were a leader. You would decide were to flank were to hit the army in the middle or to the side to circle there forces from retreating. This in by means will make warhammer a tatical game.
1 side doesn't know wat the other forces is thinking.. If you keep pushing the forces back no way the battle will go anywere. Thats why you need troops to flank the back to get the healers and range dps. While you have forces tanking the front.
This game makes it much more tatic and warlike.
Actually, of everything RvR I have participated in so far there has been no Zerg. Everyone holds battle lines, tanks actually protect their healers, people try to goad one another into crossing those lines, several will break off and try to flank the enemy from the woods. There has been plenty of tactic to it, not just 2 big groups rushing into one another.
Which game doesn't allow you to fight vs 10 people and kill 4 before you die?...
This game is supposed to be centered on tactical LOTS vs LOTS people PvP battles... and I'm looking for what exactly it provides for this... if it's tactical or what... if it's not.. it's not worth playing....
I've heard people mentioning tactics... I'm looking for them... what are they?... name a few?...
just don't give me the healer heals, tank tanks and we attack the healer first or we keep in a close group etc etc etc...
I'm talking about tactics above goldfish level... this game is supposed to be the best at this... where is it?... where are the tactics?....
And thanks for your offer to go play WoW... but I gave up a long time ago....
I'm here to talk and be convinced or to just talk... is that a problem for you?
Does my opinion hurt your eyes?
You have no intention of being convinced and dont try to tell us otherwise. You have dont nothing but trash WAR over and over on the same fking topics.
To awnser your question, zerging is always going to be apart of any game. But since you want an example of how tactics can win I'll give you one.
Being apart of a sige keep there is a front door and a back door (T2 I cant speak any higher than that, but the keeps get HUGE in T4 so there may be multiple doors). Anyway being apart of the defending side and no one brought oil ect to help defend our keep within a few min the zerg had the door down and was inside. I dont remember exact numbers but it was close to 2:1 in favor of the zerg. Once they broke the door about half of us fought inside at ground level. The other half stayed with the keep lord knowing full well they would kill all of us down below. However that was the plan. Kill us and when they move to the commander, between the commander and our people keep them busy long enough for thoes below to get back to the keep. Worked like a charm. The mindless zerg (which is what your arguing is the tactic all the time) pushed into the keep lord room and by the time thoes of us that died got back we had them trapped (yay collision detection) My tank blocked the way down after our meleeDPS got in and the nukers/healers did there work from just behind me. The ones in the zerg we didnt kill jumped off the side of the keep anyway.
No, thats not GREAT tactics but its just one example of how 2:1 odds isnt a big deal if people work as a group and use there heads. Hell had they even posted one or two people outside or in the lower part of the keep to warn people upstairs they may have succeded, but that wouldnt be zerging now would it.
There is another example I could give you of even numbers zerg vs. tactics not involving a keep, but rather destruction kicking orders ass repeatedly for a battle objective right outside of there warcamp, but by your posts you really dont care and just want ot rile people up and trash the game so I wont waste anymore space on you.
Edit: Zerging has its place. Its a freaking game after all not real world warfare. if you outnumber the oposition 5 or 6:1 there is no point in tactics, zerg the shit out of them. Hell even real world zerg could work if say the orient could somehow sneak up on another country with there full population. (No this is not a shot at china or anything, simple fact is they have alot more people than other countries.)
First off zerging is a tactic. I bring more people then you and my tactic is to use attrition to win the day. So to say "tactics wont beat zerging" is a pretty stupid statement. In my opinion the basic tactics will be broken down into 2 categories: Maneuver, and Zerging.
Zerging in my opinon is a lot like trench warfare. For a zerg to be used effectively a few things have to be maintained. The zerg must have superior numbers, AND have their opponents use the same tactic. Basicly 2 sides in their trenches taking pot shots at each other. Also a zerg can be effectively used to siege a keep, and lastly it can tie down a much larger force if they have a war camp at their back.
Now maneuver will be seen a lot less, and depending on the situation will dominate trench warfare. When zerging is used in the open with no way to force the opponent into attacking from one direction it loses all of its advantages. It will allow the side that uses it effectively to defeat their opponent quickly and decisively, but used wrong will be the complete opposite, a quick defeat.
So in my opinion zerging and maneuver will each have its place. It's not that one is better then the other, its more about using the right tactic for the job that will separate the successful war bands from the bad ones.
One thing that seems to be a common theme with these OP's that post this kinda stuff. They're all AoC fanboys.
Gamer Plus+
Why is this thread still not dead ?
The OP just wants to waste people time so don't give him the pleasure:/. Seriously just let this die. No point in arguing with someone who has already made up his mind.
Like DAoC, zergs are part of the tactics. Any time you have open field RvR with high populations there will be zergs. However, there will also be many organized groups of guilds carrying out their own plans seperate from the zerg. Zerging can be fun, I don't know why it's such a dirty word. It doesn't take anything away from the "elite" VoIP guilds. They are free to roam wherever and do whatever they want. They can avoid the zerg or outflank them and maybe turn the tide. Respect the zerg and stop bitching about one of the cooler aspects of a highly populated PvP battlefield.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online