I'm looking forward to this game but this I would like to know so please tell me what you know. And also, any classes that are underpowered?
The OP classes are on destruction side: the disciple of khaine, a healer wearing plate and doing fury dps , and the witch elf, who can rape an IB in a matter of seconds.
As for the mirrors unbalance, i'd say the magus is more powerful than the engineer, and more annoying in offense.
Black orcs being better than IB or BW being better than sorceress don't bother me as it all balances out in the end.
I consider DoK and WP to be fairly even really. And they don't wear plate, they have medium armor (50% mititgation) compared to a tank in heavy armor (~70% mitigation)
Especially in T3+. Black orcs are not better than IB, they are however obviously better than their mirror the swordmaster
I've only played for 2 days. I have a warrior priest that is rank 11 and rr9.
I can say without equivocation that warrior priest is an over-powered class. It is a hero type class if played properly. I play on the Bretonnia server and have been frequenlty outnumbered in battles in open rvr 2-4 vs. 1 in most cases. I'll give a small rundown of what I've figured out so far:
Circle strafing melee makes BO/CC/Marauders look ridiculous in combat. The majority of the time I find myself chasing them away.
Stopping to pop my interruptable heal keeps me @ 50%+ health through almost any fight.
Zealots are annoyingly efficient in healing and I cannot out-dps them.
In scenarios a WP is not meant to sit back and pop heals. WP is a beautiful class for flanking the opponents position and still staying within range to heal your group while decimating the caster population.
All in all, Bright Wizard is a dps beast. However they fall as easily as a magus or a sorceress. You just have to give them the respect of either a wide berth or a narrow gap to close in and kill.
I am not subscribing again unless they fix the CC crap (IB CCs and overall CCs) and DOT damage.
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I don't understand this melee DPS thing for T1 I own almost every WE or Maurader with any kind of tank or a warrior priest unless they are 2 or 3 levels above in which case they are really nasty. And no way are chosen particularly better than a Swordmaster or IB even though SM are the weakest of the 4 tanks expecially in T1 it is not so big that a decent SM with a shield can't do just fine. You will lose to a decent Black Orc as an SM but that takes forever 1v1.
As for WP and DoK in T1 they can pretty much take on any class and either stalemate them (tanks) or kill them. Does this make them OP? Not really because they don't have killer DPS and WAR is a team game but it does make them dangerous. 3 Maruader with 2 DoK is far more dangerous than 5 WP.
Let's see now with the Empire's tank coming into the fray again - KotBS (Knight of the Blazing Sun) - and another Destro tank (dark elf) - the Black Guard - how things are going to change and reflect on the battlefield and scenarios.
I also feel that they should look upon the classes a little bit more closely (actually I think they are or already have made some changes, just not implemented yet, on both NA/Oceanic and EU).
But I do have to say that BWs, as a Chosen, are my main concern (since I've taken Path of Discord - PoD mastery) - and I did have trouble killing them on T2 and beginiing of T3.
Thought at the end of T2 - I had almost no problem with anyone (all Thoughness and Wounds plus timed debuffs or aura buffs and if teamed with a healer... then your concern should be the healer and not me.. if you actually can get to him).
Let's see now that I'm getting closer everyday to the end of T3 but basically I do agree with the person that posted and reanimated this old thread. As it was indeed interesting to read, cutting things by Tiers and the general content of hisher post.
Most people have little clue about what OP is because:
They are not 40 yet, thus they don't have the full range of their abilities and they don't know how these abilities scale.
They are not properly itemised for their main role. Usually that means that casters are better than more gear dependant classes.
They only/ mainly play scenarios. While scenarios are a decent means of levelling, this is not what most people will be doing when the reach end rank.
To shed some light on how exagurated some of the previous statements are, take a look at already established games (say WoW) and try to make any meaningful class comparisons in the pre-max level era (compare classes at mid 30-40 for example).
i must admit that there is lack of balance among classes
first of all, Black Orc is insanely strong. this is just sick. Also zealots are much better healers than any other class imo
Witch elf can kills u in seconds if she attacks you while in stealth mode, but she dies pretty fast too. Shes good for single duels and, comparing to witch hunter, seriously overpowered. my witch hunter cant beat a marauder of same level even if i surprise attack him stealthed.
Archmage is pretty strong. i saw 2 lvl25 archmages defeating 6ppl lvl 17-22. same for shamans
classes that need tweaks are Witch hunter, Magus and Dark Sorceress
classes need nerfing: Zealot, Black orc
other clases should not be bothered right now
Playing: Rohan Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
i'm on the fence and say neither faction is OP'ed as i have played both sides and think that when im playing destro Order are overpowered but then i play Order nad it seems to be in reverse so i guess it just come's down to how ya char is built and how well the other person play's.
E.g 1: Tonight as i sit there and play my WH at R 9 i pummel a R 11 marauder to the ground only to be beaten by a R 9 Marauder 2 mins later obviuosly a better player on the R 9 than the R 11 or maybe i was just lucky who knows but i can bet the R 11 Marauder would have been screaming OP'ed,
E.g 2: same kind of thing but when i was on my R 26 DoK gave a beating to WP 2 lvl's higher than get my butt handed to me by a WP 1 level lower,
So again ,i think it come's down to build and skill i guess just a matter of learning skill's and hitting the right one's at the right time.
In general, melee classes are OP compared to casting classes and healers, and that is why you see so many witch hunters, marauders, iron breakers, and such running around in tier 1 and tier 2 right now.
Having said that, there are one-on-one matchups that specifically buck that trend. For instance, although most healers are helpless against melee DPS... the DK and WP can more than hold their own in that situation.
Melee DPS and tanks just have so many odds in their favor that a sorceress or bright wizard stands no chance if they are rushed... and they are almost always rushed upon first sighting.
The common tactic that wins in this game is horde up several melee players and gang attack every caster/healer you encounter.
Many classes have their one or 2 overpowering abilities. There is one archtype that is overpowered right now though.
Warrior Priest and Disciple of Khaine. The reason? This class can beat all other classes in the game in a 1 vs 1 fight. Their self healing is way too good. they are diesigned to select a defense target, preferable a tnak, and heal that target while they attack. When they decide to select themselves, they are near unstoppable unless multiple people beat them down.
I have a 21 DoK right now, and I pretty much never lose a 1 vs 1. In a 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 it is the same thing. Everyone can focus fire me, but my heals are strong enough to keep me alive long enough for my comrads to kill the opposition.
This class can effectivily heal, by sitting back and spamming their 2 or 3 castable heals. They can enter the fight making it even stronger.
This class can effectively tank heroes in PQs. They can tank up to 3 other players in PvP.
This class can effective deal damage. It is a little bit better than the daamge a Great Weapon tank to deal.
There is one difficulty with this class. Keep ing their soul essence up during a fight is the only challenge. Once the soul essence runs out, this class is vulnerable.
Witch Hunters and Witch Elves have the best chance to beat them.
Many classes have their one or 2 overpowering abilities. There is one archtype that is overpowered right now though. Warrior Priest and Disciple of Khaine. The reason? This class can beat all other classes in the game in a 1 vs 1 fight. Their self healing is way too good. they are diesigned to select a defense target, preferable a tnak, and heal that target while they attack. When they decide to select themselves, they are near unstoppable unless multiple people beat them down. I have a 21 DoK right now, and I pretty much never lose a 1 vs 1. In a 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 it is the same thing. Everyone can focus fire me, but my heals are strong enough to keep me alive long enough for my comrads to kill the opposition.
This class can effectivily heal, by sitting back and spamming their 2 or 3 castable heals. They can enter the fight making it even stronger. This class can effectively tank heroes in PQs. They can tank up to 3 other players in PvP. This class can effective deal damage. It is a little bit better than the daamge a Great Weapon tank to deal.
There is one difficulty with this class. Keep ing their soul essence up during a fight is the only challenge. Once the soul essence runs out, this class is vulnerable. Witch Hunters and Witch Elves have the best chance to beat them.
DOK and WPs healing doesn't scale as well as the other healers by end game. This also allows them to be more killable by melee classes if they are specced correctly. However, they will stand a much better chance than the other healers because they are hybrid. This is balanced by the fact that they cannot single target heal nearly as well as the other two healers.
To the op i say that overall the game is pretty well balanced but things change depending on your spec in each tier.
Tier 1 ranged classes have the advantage of just standing back, nuking and kiting when neccesary.
Tier 2/3 melee is able to turn the tide on ranged classes with their snare removing ability.
Things seem to turn slightly back into ranged classes favor at end game due to more cc abilities like knockbacks compared to melees snare removing abilty not correctly giving the 10 second immunity afterward. I still dont feel gimped on my witch hunter, in part because some ranged classes dont know how to kite and because in most group situations if im unable to counter a kiter fast enough i will abandon them and rush for another nearby squishy while they run away from the battle.
Big plus for class balance i see in this game, compared to that other popular mmo, is that all specs can still function in pvp. Tanks don't need to spec dps in order to stand a chance and actually play a crucial role.
The common tactic that wins in this game is horde up several melee players and gang attack every caster/healer you encounter.
This was my observation, as well.
I dislike the design of WAR's classes immensely. The rock, paper, scissors has been carried way too far, and it limits individual tactics, supposedly for the sake of team tactics? Individual tactics should be the cornerstones upon which team tactics are layed out. Instead, Mythic has seemingly designed team tactics first, and then decided which classes get to do what team processes afterwards. Also, the corny design of classes and lack of customization means there is no need for information gathering - everyone knows what class you are and what you can probably do, which in turn makes bluffing and misdirection tactics much less effective.
Healing is way overpowered. How many real wars have been waged with military personel and vehicles being repaired during combat operations? It's a complete joke - a "tank" and a healer of slightly higher level than a sizable force of other players are very likely to win against those odds. As Valdecir has noted, that mismatch can be scaled all the way through the game, and eventually - when large amounts of heavy siege engines are in use - the warfare will become almost completely two-dimensional role-wise. All that will matter will be striking a delicate balance between healing and highly defensive damage dealing. Siege engines will take care of the rest.
none really, well there is unbalance but it is not like one class can down right kill almost every other class.
it is more like when you are fighting one class and you know you should have the advantage because of the archtypess but you dont, so it is harder for you to win.
Or another way i can describe the overpower in WAR, is that some classes vs another class in which the archtype of that class you should have the advantage you dont have.
so the answer to your question is that some classes are overpowered but none are underpowered.
I personally belive Bright wizards are overpowerd and diciple of khanes are overpowered in my opinion Witch elves only seem overpowered to some people because they have a much easier time taking down a healer than a witch hunter has. But when if ight a we with my witch hunter it seems to be a pretty even match who ever gets the jump usually wins.
I think the hate managment for pve needs some work for the Sword master it is very hard to tank sometimes and hold hate on more than 2 mobs But that is not that big a deal if you are fighting more than 2 mobs in a group we have just been bringing two tanks.
But overall the balance isn't to bad like one person said earlier things like witch hunters should be able to take out healers better than they can because they are melee dps. but i have stopped going after healers first and take out casters cause ii can mow them down easy. and for being melee dps i think witch hunters survivablity is to low.
But they have not done any class balances yet so when patch 1.1 comes out we will get to see what kind of issues the developers thought were important vs what the players though needed to be done.
Almost all class forums have people complainig that they can't beat a certain class but you have to remember they are not trying to balance it in that way it is a group effort not a 1v1 effort no class can easily kill all classes.
I play a Marauder and am always top dps so far in t1-t3. Only thing I don't like fighting is those damn little dwarf tanks, Ironbreakers haha. WP are probably the second hardest thing to take down, but usually I can kill them if there 1-2 levels higher then me. WH, SW, and BW are all easy to kill. Rush them and they try to snare/root and run... Break it, catch up and they're dead. Engineers... Don't even have to say anything about them. Squig Herders are garbage, haven't tried a magus, but you never see them rolling people. Sorc are cool, but all casters = bad dps if people rush them. I haven't tried a tank yet since I'm waiting for BG.
Witch Elfs... im a WP and can win more then i lose vs any class besides WE and heavy tanks, and this is only because i cant kill heavy tanks and heavy tanks cant kill me so we jsut give up. Not only do I have no shot at killing a 40 WE, i have just about no shot vs a 35 WE.
The only other class that I have a problem with is Squig hurder because of how under powered they are.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011 -------------------- Current game: DAOC
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I laughed quite heartily at many of the replies in this thread. It seems to most people the only concept of balance is who they can or can't kill. This is a team oriented pvp game. DAOC suffered the same problem though, too many people that thought 1vs1 dictated everything. Mythic didn't cave to them there, and I have high hopes that they will be completely ignored here as well.
To the person that called Magus overpowered because of the ability that sucks a bunch of people into one spot? Engineers have the exact same ability. Trust me, more than once has an engineer sucked me through a keep door while I'm on a ram just to be slaughtered by the entire defensive force on the other side of that door.
To those that call the Engineer/Magus underpowered, you are not looking at the big picture. Sure, they are not going to score kills. Their not designed for that. But played smartly a single one of these classes can change the flow of a fight from a loss to a win. Their utility is absolutely amazing.
I saw at least one person call the Black Orc overpowered. I play a black orc personally. Here's the secret of a black orc. If we are hitting you for more than 150 on a non crit, we are specced for damage and we fold faster than a bright wizard with a witch elf on them. Black orcs specced damage really are flimsy. I personally play a defensive black orc, and yes, I can survive a heck of a beating. On the flip side of that coin, I can't kill people. It's that simple. The only time I can actually kill someone in a 1vs1 fight is if they decide not to give up on the fight and run off. I have one snare, it's part two of my chain. It's also melee range only. Getting out of my range is easy. Even when I'm in your face I do ignorable damage. My specials manage to hit squishy targets for about 140 on a non crit. Now, if you stand and fight me, I will outlast most classes except healers. Healers are impossible for me to kill. Literally imposible. 1 heal over time even if their geared and specced for damage is enough to completely counter my damage output. Bright wizards are the exception here as any competentaly played bright wizard can kill me quite easily. How you deal with a defensive black orc is either send a decent bright on them or as an easier alternative don't waste any dps on them. Ignore them untill you wipe up the healers/dps then you can focus fire the black orc down pretty quickly.
Bright Wizards are a strange one for me. Obviously any class that makes up almost half of an entire sides players has a problem but I have yet to find that problem. I personally don't have a problem with them doing the OMGWTF type damage they can do. Honestly I think the fix to bright wizards involves no direct fix to them at all. Instead I think that healers cure abilities need a massive overhaul. Making the cures more effective will help counter a lot of the complaints about bright wizards. And as a bonus to those who just care about 1vs1 it won't have an effect on the brights capacity there except against healers themselves. This will prevent the stories of a single bright wiping out entire groups of players if they lack melee dps classes. As a tank if I have a healer in support and the bright is stupid enough to fire at me the tank instead of my healer the bright should be the one that looses that fight. As it stands now this is not the case. Better cures would deffinately provide a fix there.
Honestly though, all of these are minor swings one way or another. I believe overall class balance is fairly strong as it stands.
P.S. To the guy saying healing is too strong in this game. You sir are short sighted. If you reduce the healing to the levels that would satisfy you then tanks would dominate this game. If you then lower tanks so that they don't dominate then dps dominates. It's all a carefully designed mesh of balance.
P.S. To the guy saying healing is too strong in this game. You sir are short sighted. If you reduce the healing to the levels that would satisfy you then tanks would dominate this game. If you then lower tanks so that they don't dominate then dps dominates. It's all a carefully designed mesh of balance.
It's a mesh of balance? Really? Wow, hard to believe someone could be so clueless.
Did you ever defend a keep against a crew of opposition that had 6 or 7 healers, all resurrecting each other - over and over and over? Constantly healing? It doesn't even hardly matter if the defending side has more players and equivalent competent healers... everyone eventually dies, and the Lord can't be resurrected. I can see a scenario becoming commonplace where a long keep battle actually has the keep changing hands 2 or 3 times without anyone ever leaving the premises - once enough people actually start understanding just how poorly designed the game is.
Healing in Warhammer is beyond overpowered. It's beyond ridiculous, and the only thing keeping it from ruining the current game completely is a lack of proper organization and tactical understanding. A few groups have already started to catch on, however. They own their battles, every time.
As far as the rest of the classes, as I said in my previous post - I'm not big on class balance (I don't care if a level 40 witch elf can usually take out a level 40 shadow warrior), but Warhammer has lost all sight of roleplaying constructs in their extremely exaggerated specialization careers. Using that example I mentioned, in Warhammer a level 40 shadow warrior has to wonder how a 1v1 encounter with a level 25 witch elf is going play out if the witch elf gets a few lucky parries or dodges. Complete mismatches are all over the place - the rock, paper, scissors game formation has been taken to humorous levels.
I could go on and on and on. Bottom line, Warhammer's days are numbered without a complete rehaul of the game mechanics.
Witch Elves ability to run straight into the opposing teams backline and gank a healer and quite often managing to escape with it too. Their dps is ridiculous and the ability to go straight through an entire team to kill the most important part of the team with ease is quite overpowered. When the Bright Wizards are able to stand in the midline untouched by opposing team they are completely insane, or overpowered if you prefer. But when destruction is chopping their way through your midline their contribution is in comparison to a tank minor, then they're weak.
I'd say that the game is quite decently balanced and the effectiveness of the classes relying very much on what situation and team setups Destruction and Order got. Witch Elves are the exception to this, and BWs being the class of biggest effectiveness variations. I should add: I've only thus far got to T3.
Comments
The OP classes are on destruction side: the disciple of khaine, a healer wearing plate and doing fury dps , and the witch elf, who can rape an IB in a matter of seconds.
As for the mirrors unbalance, i'd say the magus is more powerful than the engineer, and more annoying in offense.
Black orcs being better than IB or BW being better than sorceress don't bother me as it all balances out in the end.
I consider DoK and WP to be fairly even really. And they don't wear plate, they have medium armor (50% mititgation) compared to a tank in heavy armor (~70% mitigation)
Especially in T3+. Black orcs are not better than IB, they are however obviously better than their mirror the swordmaster
I've only played for 2 days. I have a warrior priest that is rank 11 and rr9.
I can say without equivocation that warrior priest is an over-powered class. It is a hero type class if played properly. I play on the Bretonnia server and have been frequenlty outnumbered in battles in open rvr 2-4 vs. 1 in most cases. I'll give a small rundown of what I've figured out so far:
Circle strafing melee makes BO/CC/Marauders look ridiculous in combat. The majority of the time I find myself chasing them away.
Stopping to pop my interruptable heal keeps me @ 50%+ health through almost any fight.
Zealots are annoyingly efficient in healing and I cannot out-dps them.
In scenarios a WP is not meant to sit back and pop heals. WP is a beautiful class for flanking the opponents position and still staying within range to heal your group while decimating the caster population.
All in all, Bright Wizard is a dps beast. However they fall as easily as a magus or a sorceress. You just have to give them the respect of either a wide berth or a narrow gap to close in and kill.
Warrior Priest is OP.
Bright Wizard and Ironbreaker are clearly OP.
I am not subscribing again unless they fix the CC crap (IB CCs and overall CCs) and DOT damage.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
I play an Engineer.
Stop it!
No really.
I don't like being laughed at.
I don't understand this melee DPS thing for T1 I own almost every WE or Maurader with any kind of tank or a warrior priest unless they are 2 or 3 levels above in which case they are really nasty. And no way are chosen particularly better than a Swordmaster or IB even though SM are the weakest of the 4 tanks expecially in T1 it is not so big that a decent SM with a shield can't do just fine. You will lose to a decent Black Orc as an SM but that takes forever 1v1.
As for WP and DoK in T1 they can pretty much take on any class and either stalemate them (tanks) or kill them. Does this make them OP? Not really because they don't have killer DPS and WAR is a team game but it does make them dangerous. 3 Maruader with 2 DoK is far more dangerous than 5 WP.
In T4 WP and DoK are far from OP.
Let's see now with the Empire's tank coming into the fray again - KotBS (Knight of the Blazing Sun) - and another Destro tank (dark elf) - the Black Guard - how things are going to change and reflect on the battlefield and scenarios.
I also feel that they should look upon the classes a little bit more closely (actually I think they are or already have made some changes, just not implemented yet, on both NA/Oceanic and EU).
But I do have to say that BWs, as a Chosen, are my main concern (since I've taken Path of Discord - PoD mastery) - and I did have trouble killing them on T2 and beginiing of T3.
Thought at the end of T2 - I had almost no problem with anyone (all Thoughness and Wounds plus timed debuffs or aura buffs and if teamed with a healer... then your concern should be the healer and not me.. if you actually can get to him).
Let's see now that I'm getting closer everyday to the end of T3 but basically I do agree with the person that posted and reanimated this old thread. As it was indeed interesting to read, cutting things by Tiers and the general content of hisher post.
Cheers!
Most people have little clue about what OP is because:
To shed some light on how exagurated some of the previous statements are, take a look at already established games (say WoW) and try to make any meaningful class comparisons in the pre-max level era (compare classes at mid 30-40 for example).
i must admit that there is lack of balance among classes
first of all, Black Orc is insanely strong. this is just sick. Also zealots are much better healers than any other class imo
Witch elf can kills u in seconds if she attacks you while in stealth mode, but she dies pretty fast too. Shes good for single duels and, comparing to witch hunter, seriously overpowered. my witch hunter cant beat a marauder of same level even if i surprise attack him stealthed.
Archmage is pretty strong. i saw 2 lvl25 archmages defeating 6ppl lvl 17-22. same for shamans
classes that need tweaks are Witch hunter, Magus and Dark Sorceress
classes need nerfing: Zealot, Black orc
other clases should not be bothered right now
Playing: Rohan
Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
i'm on the fence and say neither faction is OP'ed as i have played both sides and think that when im playing destro Order are overpowered but then i play Order nad it seems to be in reverse so i guess it just come's down to how ya char is built and how well the other person play's.
E.g 1: Tonight as i sit there and play my WH at R 9 i pummel a R 11 marauder to the ground only to be beaten by a R 9 Marauder 2 mins later obviuosly a better player on the R 9 than the R 11 or maybe i was just lucky who knows but i can bet the R 11 Marauder would have been screaming OP'ed,
E.g 2: same kind of thing but when i was on my R 26 DoK gave a beating to WP 2 lvl's higher than get my butt handed to me by a WP 1 level lower,
So again ,i think it come's down to build and skill i guess just a matter of learning skill's and hitting the right one's at the right time.
In general, melee classes are OP compared to casting classes and healers, and that is why you see so many witch hunters, marauders, iron breakers, and such running around in tier 1 and tier 2 right now.
Having said that, there are one-on-one matchups that specifically buck that trend. For instance, although most healers are helpless against melee DPS... the DK and WP can more than hold their own in that situation.
Melee DPS and tanks just have so many odds in their favor that a sorceress or bright wizard stands no chance if they are rushed... and they are almost always rushed upon first sighting.
The common tactic that wins in this game is horde up several melee players and gang attack every caster/healer you encounter.
Many classes have their one or 2 overpowering abilities. There is one archtype that is overpowered right now though.
Warrior Priest and Disciple of Khaine. The reason? This class can beat all other classes in the game in a 1 vs 1 fight. Their self healing is way too good. they are diesigned to select a defense target, preferable a tnak, and heal that target while they attack. When they decide to select themselves, they are near unstoppable unless multiple people beat them down.
I have a 21 DoK right now, and I pretty much never lose a 1 vs 1. In a 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 it is the same thing. Everyone can focus fire me, but my heals are strong enough to keep me alive long enough for my comrads to kill the opposition.
This class can effectivily heal, by sitting back and spamming their 2 or 3 castable heals. They can enter the fight making it even stronger.
This class can effectively tank heroes in PQs. They can tank up to 3 other players in PvP.
This class can effective deal damage. It is a little bit better than the daamge a Great Weapon tank to deal.
There is one difficulty with this class. Keep ing their soul essence up during a fight is the only challenge. Once the soul essence runs out, this class is vulnerable.
Witch Hunters and Witch Elves have the best chance to beat them.
DOK and WPs healing doesn't scale as well as the other healers by end game. This also allows them to be more killable by melee classes if they are specced correctly. However, they will stand a much better chance than the other healers because they are hybrid. This is balanced by the fact that they cannot single target heal nearly as well as the other two healers.
To the op i say that overall the game is pretty well balanced but things change depending on your spec in each tier.
Tier 1 ranged classes have the advantage of just standing back, nuking and kiting when neccesary.
Tier 2/3 melee is able to turn the tide on ranged classes with their snare removing ability.
Things seem to turn slightly back into ranged classes favor at end game due to more cc abilities like knockbacks compared to melees snare removing abilty not correctly giving the 10 second immunity afterward. I still dont feel gimped on my witch hunter, in part because some ranged classes dont know how to kite and because in most group situations if im unable to counter a kiter fast enough i will abandon them and rush for another nearby squishy while they run away from the battle.
Big plus for class balance i see in this game, compared to that other popular mmo, is that all specs can still function in pvp. Tanks don't need to spec dps in order to stand a chance and actually play a crucial role.
This was my observation, as well.
I dislike the design of WAR's classes immensely. The rock, paper, scissors has been carried way too far, and it limits individual tactics, supposedly for the sake of team tactics? Individual tactics should be the cornerstones upon which team tactics are layed out. Instead, Mythic has seemingly designed team tactics first, and then decided which classes get to do what team processes afterwards. Also, the corny design of classes and lack of customization means there is no need for information gathering - everyone knows what class you are and what you can probably do, which in turn makes bluffing and misdirection tactics much less effective.
Healing is way overpowered. How many real wars have been waged with military personel and vehicles being repaired during combat operations? It's a complete joke - a "tank" and a healer of slightly higher level than a sizable force of other players are very likely to win against those odds. As Valdecir has noted, that mismatch can be scaled all the way through the game, and eventually - when large amounts of heavy siege engines are in use - the warfare will become almost completely two-dimensional role-wise. All that will matter will be striking a delicate balance between healing and highly defensive damage dealing. Siege engines will take care of the rest.
IMO, very poor design.
I personally belive Bright wizards are overpowerd and diciple of khanes are overpowered in my opinion Witch elves only seem overpowered to some people because they have a much easier time taking down a healer than a witch hunter has. But when if ight a we with my witch hunter it seems to be a pretty even match who ever gets the jump usually wins.
I think the hate managment for pve needs some work for the Sword master it is very hard to tank sometimes and hold hate on more than 2 mobs But that is not that big a deal if you are fighting more than 2 mobs in a group we have just been bringing two tanks.
But overall the balance isn't to bad like one person said earlier things like witch hunters should be able to take out healers better than they can because they are melee dps. but i have stopped going after healers first and take out casters cause ii can mow them down easy. and for being melee dps i think witch hunters survivablity is to low.
But they have not done any class balances yet so when patch 1.1 comes out we will get to see what kind of issues the developers thought were important vs what the players though needed to be done.
Almost all class forums have people complainig that they can't beat a certain class but you have to remember they are not trying to balance it in that way it is a group effort not a 1v1 effort no class can easily kill all classes.
I play a Marauder and am always top dps so far in t1-t3. Only thing I don't like fighting is those damn little dwarf tanks, Ironbreakers haha. WP are probably the second hardest thing to take down, but usually I can kill them if there 1-2 levels higher then me. WH, SW, and BW are all easy to kill. Rush them and they try to snare/root and run... Break it, catch up and they're dead. Engineers... Don't even have to say anything about them. Squig Herders are garbage, haven't tried a magus, but you never see them rolling people. Sorc are cool, but all casters = bad dps if people rush them. I haven't tried a tank yet since I'm waiting for BG.
Witch Elfs... im a WP and can win more then i lose vs any class besides WE and heavy tanks, and this is only because i cant kill heavy tanks and heavy tanks cant kill me so we jsut give up. Not only do I have no shot at killing a 40 WE, i have just about no shot vs a 35 WE.
The only other class that I have a problem with is Squig hurder because of how under powered they are.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
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Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
I laughed quite heartily at many of the replies in this thread. It seems to most people the only concept of balance is who they can or can't kill. This is a team oriented pvp game. DAOC suffered the same problem though, too many people that thought 1vs1 dictated everything. Mythic didn't cave to them there, and I have high hopes that they will be completely ignored here as well.
To the person that called Magus overpowered because of the ability that sucks a bunch of people into one spot? Engineers have the exact same ability. Trust me, more than once has an engineer sucked me through a keep door while I'm on a ram just to be slaughtered by the entire defensive force on the other side of that door.
To those that call the Engineer/Magus underpowered, you are not looking at the big picture. Sure, they are not going to score kills. Their not designed for that. But played smartly a single one of these classes can change the flow of a fight from a loss to a win. Their utility is absolutely amazing.
I saw at least one person call the Black Orc overpowered. I play a black orc personally. Here's the secret of a black orc. If we are hitting you for more than 150 on a non crit, we are specced for damage and we fold faster than a bright wizard with a witch elf on them. Black orcs specced damage really are flimsy. I personally play a defensive black orc, and yes, I can survive a heck of a beating. On the flip side of that coin, I can't kill people. It's that simple. The only time I can actually kill someone in a 1vs1 fight is if they decide not to give up on the fight and run off. I have one snare, it's part two of my chain. It's also melee range only. Getting out of my range is easy. Even when I'm in your face I do ignorable damage. My specials manage to hit squishy targets for about 140 on a non crit. Now, if you stand and fight me, I will outlast most classes except healers. Healers are impossible for me to kill. Literally imposible. 1 heal over time even if their geared and specced for damage is enough to completely counter my damage output. Bright wizards are the exception here as any competentaly played bright wizard can kill me quite easily. How you deal with a defensive black orc is either send a decent bright on them or as an easier alternative don't waste any dps on them. Ignore them untill you wipe up the healers/dps then you can focus fire the black orc down pretty quickly.
Bright Wizards are a strange one for me. Obviously any class that makes up almost half of an entire sides players has a problem but I have yet to find that problem. I personally don't have a problem with them doing the OMGWTF type damage they can do. Honestly I think the fix to bright wizards involves no direct fix to them at all. Instead I think that healers cure abilities need a massive overhaul. Making the cures more effective will help counter a lot of the complaints about bright wizards. And as a bonus to those who just care about 1vs1 it won't have an effect on the brights capacity there except against healers themselves. This will prevent the stories of a single bright wiping out entire groups of players if they lack melee dps classes. As a tank if I have a healer in support and the bright is stupid enough to fire at me the tank instead of my healer the bright should be the one that looses that fight. As it stands now this is not the case. Better cures would deffinately provide a fix there.
Honestly though, all of these are minor swings one way or another. I believe overall class balance is fairly strong as it stands.
P.S. To the guy saying healing is too strong in this game. You sir are short sighted. If you reduce the healing to the levels that would satisfy you then tanks would dominate this game. If you then lower tanks so that they don't dominate then dps dominates. It's all a carefully designed mesh of balance.
my post still stands. WE's 3 shot just about anyone i see and makes the person that they are attacking nearly unhealable. every other class is fine.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
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Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
It's a mesh of balance? Really? Wow, hard to believe someone could be so clueless.
Did you ever defend a keep against a crew of opposition that had 6 or 7 healers, all resurrecting each other - over and over and over? Constantly healing? It doesn't even hardly matter if the defending side has more players and equivalent competent healers... everyone eventually dies, and the Lord can't be resurrected. I can see a scenario becoming commonplace where a long keep battle actually has the keep changing hands 2 or 3 times without anyone ever leaving the premises - once enough people actually start understanding just how poorly designed the game is.
Healing in Warhammer is beyond overpowered. It's beyond ridiculous, and the only thing keeping it from ruining the current game completely is a lack of proper organization and tactical understanding. A few groups have already started to catch on, however. They own their battles, every time.
As far as the rest of the classes, as I said in my previous post - I'm not big on class balance (I don't care if a level 40 witch elf can usually take out a level 40 shadow warrior), but Warhammer has lost all sight of roleplaying constructs in their extremely exaggerated specialization careers. Using that example I mentioned, in Warhammer a level 40 shadow warrior has to wonder how a 1v1 encounter with a level 25 witch elf is going play out if the witch elf gets a few lucky parries or dodges. Complete mismatches are all over the place - the rock, paper, scissors game formation has been taken to humorous levels.
I could go on and on and on. Bottom line, Warhammer's days are numbered without a complete rehaul of the game mechanics.
Witch Elves ability to run straight into the opposing teams backline and gank a healer and quite often managing to escape with it too. Their dps is ridiculous and the ability to go straight through an entire team to kill the most important part of the team with ease is quite overpowered. When the Bright Wizards are able to stand in the midline untouched by opposing team they are completely insane, or overpowered if you prefer. But when destruction is chopping their way through your midline their contribution is in comparison to a tank minor, then they're weak.
I'd say that the game is quite decently balanced and the effectiveness of the classes relying very much on what situation and team setups Destruction and Order got. Witch Elves are the exception to this, and BWs being the class of biggest effectiveness variations. I should add: I've only thus far got to T3.