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Interesting Shadow Warrior and Squig herder only unique classes in game
DataDay
Member UncommonPosts: 1,538
I noticed something awhile ago and didnt really think about it until now.
The Squig herder and the Shadow warrior are the most unique classes in the game.
By this i mean, only Destruction has a pet class that uses ranged non magic dps and unique skills, and only ORDER has a true Ranger like class.
Each class in the game so far has a similar counterpart, except for the SW and the SH.
Order has more non magical ranged classes and Destruction has the most pet classes.
Comments
They have mirrored counter parts its just not as obvious as some of the other ones. Alot of the classes are like this...they have mirrors but their playstyle is completely different. When the Dev's say Mirrors it doesnt' mean a true mirror. Take the Zealot and the Runepriest for instance they are each other's mirrors but they're very very different from one another.
Order and Destruction have equal number of pet classes. They have 2 pet classes in the entire game the White Lion & the Squig Herder. The Magus & the Engineer are the only other classes that summon something onto the field BUT they are Turrents, stationary non controllable items. The magus can't control his demons and the engineer can not control his turrets.
From the description of both classes, it seems that the SH and Sw are mirrors of each other, even tough the SH has a pet, both are ranged classes, with an emphasis in moving and shooting, and even their mastery paths are extremly similar (pure shooting, shooting on the move, melee with some shooting).
Has any of the beta testers tried both classes and comment on how similar or different they are from each other?
I think White Lion is the mirror the Squig Herder. Destruction has an extra mage class to mirror Shadow Warrior.
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You also have to remember several classes had there opposing classes taken out to be worked on. Eventually every class will have a oppositional version.
One thing I really appreciate about WAR is there is no optimal class balance in a group. Mash 6 engineer together and they are a terror. Mix in any other class and sheer beauty. One of my favourite groupings was 2 High Elf Sword masters, a Burning Wizard and a Dwarf Engineer. Talk about chaos!
White Lion is the mirror of Marauder. The only classes without a mirror are Chosen(mirror was knight) and Iron Breaker(mirror was black guard) though many of the mirrors don't really play anything alike.
They did not take out a class and leave its mirror all the classes that were removed as in 4 were Mirrors of each other Knights of the Blazing sun was a mirror to the Blackguard they're both cut, The choppa and the hammerer were each other's mirrors and they're both gone.
If the White Lion is the Squig Herder counter part, which class is the Marauder's order side mirror? and which one is the Shadow Warrior's?
And aren't all other mirrored pairings within the same archetype (tank vs tank, healer vs healer, etc.). The only classes without a proper mirror pairing, are those that had theirs removed (Chosen/KotTBS and Iron Braker/Black Guard).
WL I don't beleive can be compared to the SH. The SH has pets yes, so does the WL, when I played them they had totally different mechanics from one another.
I also fail to see this extra caster class. I'm pretty sure all of them have their counterpart. It just depends on how you veiw the classes.
White Lion(medium armor MDPS) is definitely the Marauder(Medium armor MDPS) mirror. Squiq Herder(melee capable RDPS+skirmisher) is the mirror to Shadow Warrior(melee capable RDPS+skirmisher).
White Lion and Squiq Herder are completely different archetypes they just both happen to have pets.
They didn't want it to be EXACTLY the same on each side. They wanted it more interesting.
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The Ironbreaker Mirrors the Chosen. KoTBS is the black Guard's mirror they did not Leave a Mirror behidn that would imbalance the game if they did.
The whole reason for the mirror system was to allow for quicker & more controlled balancing to leave a class behidn without a Mirror would cripple the game's balancing.
I am pretty sure the maurder and shadow warrrior are mirrors.
Here are the mirrors from what I have gathered:
Warrior-Priest + Disciple of Khaine
Engineer + Magus
Fire Mage + Sorceress
Witch Hunter + Witch Elf
Rune Preist + Zealot
Archmage + Shaman
White Lion + Squig Herder
Shadow Warrior + Maurader (these are paired by default i have never played either class)
Ironbreaker, Black Orc, Swordmaster and Chosen have no mirrors.
As to how i see it...
warrior priest ----- DoK
Witch hunter ---- Witch Elf
Bright wiz ---- Sorc
Engineer ----- Magus
Zealot ---- Rune Priest
Black Orc ---- Iron Breaker
Shaman ---- Archmage
This is where it gets tricky
Sword master ---- Maurader (dual wielders?)
Even trickier
White Lion --- Chosen
and confusion
Shadow Warrior
Squig Herder
The shadow warrior does some serious ranged dps, the squig herder can go melee, jump inside his squig for extra skills and defense or send his pets out, though he is ranged.
This is incorrect. Ironbreaker is the mirror to Black Guard. KOTBS is the mirror to Chosen (both were aura based tanks). It really isn't the end of the world that they decided to break up two mirrors.
The mirrors are exactly as follows.
Warrior Priest > DoK
Witch Hunter > Witch Elf
Bright Wizard > Sorceress
Engineer > Magus
Zealot > Rune Priest
SwordMaster > Black Orc
Archmage > Shaman
White Lion > Marauder
Shadow Warrior > Squiq Herder
Ironbreaker > Black Guard (both would have same basic mechanic)
KotBS > Choson (both aura based tanks)
Hammerer > Choppa
edit for typo!
actual you are wrong the enginer is more of a true range class than the shadow warrior because the sword warrior have a mastry that they can spec for thier sword stance.
As to how i see it...
warrior priest ----- DoK
Witch hunter ---- Witch Elf
Bright wiz ---- Sorc
Engineer ----- Magus
Zealot ---- Rune Priest
Black Orc ---- Iron Breaker
Shaman ---- Archmage
This is where it gets tricky
Sword master ---- Maurader (dual wielders?) (NO lol god no the Maurader is NOTHING like the swordmaster, the sword master is a TANK and he uses 2 handed great swords)
Even trickier
White Lion --- Chosen (I have officially died laughing at this one LOL! A Medium armored close ranged pet class is nothing like a heavily armored tank class)
and confusion
Shadow Warrior
Squig Herder
The shadow warrior does some serious ranged dps, the squig herder can go melee, jump inside his squig for extra skills and defense or send his pets out, though he is ranged.
The squig herder is probably the closest to the shadow warrior, both are Melee / Ranged characters
The mirrors are exactly as follows.
Warrior Priest > DoK
Witch Hunter > Witch Elf
Bright Wizard > Sorceress
Engineer > Magus
Zealot > Rune Priest
SwordMaster > Black Orc
Archmage > Shaman
White Lion > Marauder
Shadow Warrior > Squiq Herder
Ironbreaker > Black Guard (both would have same basic mechanic)
KotBS > Choson (both aura based tanks)
Hammerer > Choppa
edit for typo!
Ender4 nailed it. Look no further for a list of mirroried classes.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions
in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem.
-Glen Cook
As to how i see it...
warrior priest ----- DoK
Witch hunter ---- Witch Elf
Bright wiz ---- Sorc
Engineer ----- Magus
Zealot ---- Rune Priest
Black Orc ---- Iron Breaker
Shaman ---- Archmage
This is where it gets tricky
Sword master ---- Maurader (dual wielders?) (NO lol god no the Maurader is NOTHING like the swordmaster, the sword master is a TANK and he uses 2 handed great swords)
Even trickier
White Lion --- Chosen (I have officially died laughing at this one LOL! A Medium armored close ranged pet class is nothing like a heavily armored tank class)
and confusion
Shadow Warrior
Squig Herder
The shadow warrior does some serious ranged dps, the squig herder can go melee, jump inside his squig for extra skills and defense or send his pets out, though he is ranged.
The squig herder is probably the closest to the shadow warrior, both are Melee / Ranged characters
probably lol. I really do not know that much about the class pairings apparently, but those were the guesses I had based on looks and weapon choices.
What I now confused about is the 2H sword and 1h weapon and Shield combo.
Nothing like having 10 flame turrents defending a choke point and then standing back and doing coordinated shots on the tanks. hehe
This is incorrect. Ironbreaker is the mirror to Black Guard. KOTBS is the mirror to Chosen (both were aura based tanks). It really isn't the end of the world that they decided to break up two mirrors.
The mirrors are exactly as follows.
Warrior Priest > DoK
Witch Hunter > Witch Elf
Bright Wizard > Sorceress
Engineer > Magus
Zealot > Rune Priest
SwordMaster > Black Orc
Archmage > Shaman
White Lion > Marauder
Shadow Warrior > Squiq Herder
Ironbreaker > Black Guard (both would have same basic mechanic)
KotBS > Choson (both aura based tanks)
Hammerer > Choppa
edit for typo!
this is correct.
Makes me sad that the Order don't have a Aura based tank like the chosen.
Kotbs was removed cause he was freaking OP and the best damn tank in beta.
He had a run speed group aura that was OP as hell.
Kotbs, choppa and hammerer only needed minor tweaks so we should see these guys sooner than a year after release.
the blackguard was never in beta so who the hell knows.
BG has a hatred mechanic similar to the Grudge mechanic of the ironbreaker.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I personally have a problem with the grudge mechanic. One of the main points of tanks in WAR was that they are supposed to get more powerful when ignored in PvP, so you can't ignore them. you HAVE to attack tanks, thus letting them tank in PvP. balance/gud plan have pretty much no effect, being attacked or not, the chosen's auras have no problem if you are being attacked or not.
but an ironbreaker is gimp unless he is being attacked, and he can only have 1 oath friend. this means you have 4 our of 6 choices in the enemy group who you can attack, and the ironbreaker will never gain any grudge. sure, you aren't useless without grudge, but most of your skills become much less powerful, and many you can't even use.
So right there the black guard is going to be gimp unless they fix it. all you really have to make people want to attack you is taunt, thats 3 attacks, 15 grudge. thats less than 2 skills, and the lowest tier of improvement in your attacks.
meh, this belongs in its own thread /rantoff
EDIT: just something to say here, mirror classes are supposed to have similar mechanics, not playstyles. so wouldn't the maurader's mutations be similar to the SW stances? making them mirrors and the squig and white lion pet mirrors? honestly I don't know because I haven't played the SW yet.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
I am pretty sure the maurder and shadow warrrior are mirrors.
Here are the mirrors from what I have gathered:
Warrior-Priest + Disciple of Khaine
Engineer + Magus
Fire Mage + Sorceress
Witch Hunter + Witch Elf
Rune Preist + Zealot
Archmage + Shaman
White Lion + Squig Herder
Shadow Warrior + Maurader (these are paired by default i have never played either class)
Ironbreaker, Black Orc, Swordmaster and Chosen have no mirrors.
You are mostly correct.
Warrior Priest and Disciple of Khaine share the same Mechanic of attacking for healing.
Engineer and Magus share the same mechanic of Turrets
Bright Wizard and Sorcerer share the mechanic of Combustion (Dark Magic)
Witch Hunter and Witch Elf share the same mechanic of building up Judgement or somethin like that.
Rune Priest and Zealot share the same mechanic of buffs that give activateable abilities
White Lion and Squig Herder share the same mechanic of Pets
Shadow Warrior and Marauder share the same mechanic of Stances
Black Orc and Sword Master share the same mechanic of Balance or Plans
Iron Breaker and Black Guard share the same mechanic of Hate or Grudge
Knight of the Blazing Sun and Chosen share the same mechanic of Auras
and i'm assuming Choppa and Hammerer will share the same currently unknown mechanic. They did not in the past betas, but the way mythic is doing careers now I expect this to be true later on.
and seriously guys? it took that many posts to get it right?
As far as the Marauder and it's mirror. It is mirrored with Shadow Warrior by the mechanic itself but it is mirrored with the White Lion from a game balance standpoint. When they make a change to one of those two classes they make the same type of change to the other. When they added the ability for the Marauder to pull targets to him they added it to the White Lion etc. These four classes break the mold somewhat because their mechanics do not mirror with their actual mirror.
Squig Herder and Shadow Warrior are the same way. When they decide something is wrong with the mirror they make a change to both of them not just one. When they decided they were to susceptible in melee they gave both of them new abilities that made them more mobile while attacking to make them more of a skirmisher. They functionally are mirrors to each other even if their mechanics aren't mirrored.
This is incorrect. Ironbreaker is the mirror to Black Guard. KOTBS is the mirror to Chosen (both were aura based tanks). It really isn't the end of the world that they decided to break up two mirrors.
The mirrors are exactly as follows.
Warrior Priest > DoK
Witch Hunter > Witch Elf
Bright Wizard > Sorceress
Engineer > Magus
Zealot > Rune Priest
SwordMaster > Black Orc ???
Archmage > Shaman
White Lion > Marauder -----WRONG
Shadow Warrior > Squiq Herder--- WRONG
Ironbreaker > Black Guard (both would have same basic mechanic)
KotBS > Choson (both aura based tanks)
Hammerer > Choppa
edit for typo!
this is correct.
Makes me sad that the Order don't have a Aura based tank like the chosen.
Kotbs was removed cause he was freaking OP and the best damn tank in beta.
He had a run speed group aura that was OP as hell.
Kotbs, choppa and hammerer only needed minor tweaks so we should see these guys sooner than a year after release.
the blackguard was never in beta so who the hell knows.
BG has a hatred mechanic similar to the Grudge mechanic of the ironbreaker.
This is NOT CORRECT.
EDIT: I dont know about the swordmaster/ Black Orc pairing.
EDIT #2-- Did not read above post, now that I have, sheds light.
This is what makes Mythic cool and unique. Go check out the three factions in DAoC and tell me what you think.
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...I'm in your panties