New! Level Synch coming to FFXI! - Discuss

Suplyndmnd

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/3599/detail.html

 

I'm torn on this.  Talking with a friend of mine this can be good or bad or just never used.  What do you guys think?

Satimasu

It WILL be used by at least two people. That's my wife and I. This is so much awesomeness that I can't describe it. I can see the bad in it by never having to use lower level equipment. Demand will go down for it. This has so much potential it's crazy. Even if it's not that great at first, I'd be more than happy to at least have it implemented so they can work on making it better.

ic0n67

This sounds interesting?

This addresses the issue of never having the right people to party with? I mean just the other day I had someone ask me to heal for them and all my healer jobs were too high (WHM 75, SMN 75, RDM 61) or too low (SCH 12 -- i really need to work on that) for me to party with them. With this new feature I can do that. And think about it, I can have my WHM go help my friend level up for a few hours and get more merits that way. Getting someone from 10-75 is something like 800k exp (i have the exact number at home). That is 80 merits helping your friend out.

You could make a career in this game never leaving Qufim Island. On the flip side of course you would never be able to be a RDM or BRD ever because you'd constantly be asked to party from everyone in every zone.

 

(p.s. ... i had more of my post but i accidently hit a link and when i hit back my post was gone ... damned interweb ... i'll comment more then i wake up.)

Wolfenpride

Alot of other games have a system like this, and it works well from what ive seen.

 

Thrage

This change alone has convinced me to resubscribe when it goes live.

I haven't played FFXI in four years!

k11keeper

This has got to be one of coolest and craziest things SE has ever done. I like the way they are starting to think about how to fix complaints of the players. Now nobody will have a problem helping a fellow ls member catch up to them or worry about asking "Hey anyone got a job lvl 40 ish they want to lvl?" now they can just ask hey anyone want to lvl sync with my lvl 40 whatever.

Suplyndmnd

Originally posted by Wolfenpride


Alot of other games have a system like this, and it works well from what ive seen.
 

 

Do you remember which games?

ipod80gb

Whoa! This will certainly get alot of ppl  to start playing again

wrongfeifong

This is going to be awesome.

The only game with this level system is Age of conan. It RAISE the level of the players not lower it.

 

What benefit this will have?

1. Low level can group higher level

2. More space to level, merit group might find a level 60 and go do Imps instead or birds at 50 (not the higher one)

3. Gear is going to be good, but you can't switch gear anymore.

4. More newer face! if only SE decide to market this HARD after implant.

5. Missions missions mission!

 

What are the cons?

1.  AMMO problem. I can see that is going to be tricky... now range players will have to carry every level of ammo

2. I have a feeling they might "Lock" power-leveling up

3. low level area might get crowded up.

4. You might have to change macro a lot too...

sa1yaman

  I cried tears of happiness.  Brb, renewing IDs.

 

Suplyndmnd

Originally posted by wrongfeifong


This is going to be awesome.
The only game with this level system is Age of conan. It RAISE the level of the players not lower it.
 
What benefit this will have?
1. Low level can group higher level
Unless it's a friend, i won't be leveling with lower levels most likely.  I cry the whole time i'm in dunes.
2. More space to level, merit group might find a level 60 and go do Imps instead or birds at 50 (not the higher one)
I can see this possibly being the case but people in this game are hard to change.  They'll be stupid and over camp birds in the normal merit parties.
3. Gear is going to be good, but you can't switch gear anymore.
Yeah, gear swapping when being under the level thing is gonna be useless now which is gonna make having another piece of armor useless. People aren't going to like this.
4. More newer face! if only SE decide to market this HARD after implant.
I hope this brings newer faces but i doubt it.  Probably no more than would be coming to the game anyways and if the Dunes on Bismarck is any precursor, the last thing we need is more new players.
5. Missions missions mission!
 Lets hope.

I'm kind of apprehensive about this.  This really changes the makeup of the game and it feels kind of "Snake Oil Salesman" in its pitch. "Hey look at all the good things it's going to do" but they don't tell you about the bad stuff like losing an arm or the raging diarhea.

ChrisMattern

---

Originally posted by Suplyndmnd
Originally posted by Wolfenpride Alot of other games have a system like this, and it works well from what ive seen.
 

 
Do you remember which games?

---

City of Heroes/Villains leaps to mind.

ic0n67

Originally posted by wrongfeifong



3. Gear is going to be good, but you can't switch gear anymore.
Yeah, gear swapping when being under the level thing is gonna be useless now which is gonna make having another piece of armor useless. People aren't going to like this.

 

I don't think this will be the case. If it were then armor would just 'fall off.' They would have to allow you to swap equipment against your actual level. Can you imagin fighting a Lamia or and getting your clothes taken off when you have all 75 gear and you are synced for something lower -- yeah it is an extreme case, but I doubt it would happen. They would really drop the ball if your equipment was capped against your sync and not your level. If they did it how you suggest you'd almost have to take off everything meaning equipment and weapons and you would have the same problem as you do in the capped ares of CoP where no one "can" help becuase they don't have the equipment to help.

That being said ...

would abilities/spells be available? You might have Cure 5 as a slvl 11 WHM, but not the MP to use it. Teleport out of trouble at lower levels? RDM refreshing in the jungle?

Weapons skills? Would you have Blade: Jin as a slvl 45 NIN? Could you get get up to 250+ Elemetnal Magic skills while killing crabs in Kuftal? Would skill gaining be off your sync or your level?

CoP missions? Do you lose sync when you zone? if so can you sync, enter an instance and boom you are lvl 75 fighting the lvl 30 fights? BCNMs would still be capped i'd thing if not then it would be really broken.

ChrisMattern

---

Originally posted by ic0n67
Originally posted by wrongfeifong 3. Gear is going to be good, but you can't switch gear anymore.
Yeah, gear swapping when being under the level thing is gonna be useless now which is gonna make having another piece of armor useless. People aren't going to like this.

 
I don't think this will be the case. If it were then armor would just 'fall off.' They would have to allow you to swap equipment against your actual level. Can you imagin fighting a Lamia or and getting your clothes taken off when you have all 75 gear and you are synced for something lower -- yeah it is an extreme case, but I doubt it would happen. They would really drop the ball if your equipment was capped against your sync and not your level. If they did it how you suggest you'd almost have to take off everything meaning equipment and weapons and you would have the same problem as you do in the capped ares of CoP where no one "can" help becuase they don't have the equipment to help.
That being said ...
would abilities/spells be available? You might have Cure 5 as a slvl 11 WHM, but not the MP to use it. Teleport out of trouble at lower levels? RDM refreshing in the jungle?
Weapons skills? Would you have Blade: Jin as a slvl 45 NIN? Could you get get up to 250+ Elemetnal Magic skills while killing crabs in Kuftal? Would skill gaining be off your sync or your level?
CoP missions? Do you lose sync when you zone? if so can you sync, enter an instance and boom you are lvl 75 fighting the lvl 30 fights? BCNMs would still be capped i'd thing if not then it would be really broken.

---

I'm sure you get only the abilities available to your new level. Anything else would be horribly broken.

Given that the level limit holds when you die, I would expect to hold when you zone.

You can't use level limits in any capped area. In this case, I would expect it to disappear when the capped area is entered. Note that as part of the update, capped areas will be getting the same equipment deal that level limits will have.

Suplyndmnd

Given that the level limit holds when you die, I would expect to hold when you zone.

 

Incorrect.  It says that the person you are synched with has to be in the zone with you. If you zone before or after them, then your level would change.  I imagine though, that it wouldn't be as big of an issue as you dont generally zone during exp parties.

ic0n67

Originally posted by Suplyndmnd



Given that the level limit holds when you die, I would expect to hold when you zone.

 

Incorrect.  It says that the person you are synched with has to be in the zone with you. If you zone before or after them, then your level would change.  I imagine though, that it wouldn't be as big of an issue as you dont generally zone during exp parties.

 

That doesn't seem right ... let me get this list out ...

1. Don't feed them after midnight
2. Don't get th ....

Hang on ... wrong list

......

Three simple restrictions will be implemented to ensure that the Level Sync feature is not abused and does not provide an excessive advantage over traditional leveling.

1. The minimum target level that can be synchronized to is Level 10.
   
   
2. The party leader and target player must be located in the same area.
   
   
3. There will be a buffer period of thirty seconds when deactivating Level Sync.

Okay so ...

#2 says the leader and target must be in the same zone ... that doesn't mean it will go away when you zone, just to activate it you need to be in the same zone. At least that is how i read that. I don't see how having anyone in a party outside of a zone would be adventageous to anyone though so I can't see how that could be abused. I would think that it would me MORE abusive if you pull something that you can't kill so the sync-ee zones and all those lvl 75 go back to full strenght.

#3 covers you for that zone issue (at least for a little bit) If you did lose the sync on zone you would have 30 seconds to die. Come to think of it though I think it is ment for the other scenario I mented above. Deacitive sync and let the higher level kill the link or something ... need to last for 30 secs before you can do that.

OKAY! I got it ... #2 is there so you don't have some level 10 sitting in town and the other 5 people leveling. Since the sync would never get exp thus you would always be slvl 10 and could keep exping in an area of choice forever.

 

Suplyndmnd

@ic0n67

Yeah, pretty much, right now all we can do is speculate.  I'm sure they'll have it worked out (hopefully) that you cant just exploit the system but, we'll have to see.  Again, it's just that it's changing pretty much the whole game it seems and when given so little information except a few "whoa, check it, isn't this cool" you're looking for that other shoe to fall and the stench of reality to smack you square in the face.

Honestly, i'm not happy about it as i was, just because I like the way things are now.  We'll see how big of a change it is and if it ruins the game, i'll just have to evaluate what it's worth to me to stay around.  I understand why they're doing it, just dont agree with it is all.

tebian

Well here goes and I hate to add my opinion cause it is negative on this new thing. We have been "discussing" this for few days now in the linkshell and some really heated things keep coming up. I for one think they will finally destroy the rest of the economy for the guild people on FFXI with this one change. Not as many at all will need the items we make for low level jobs and so there will be no way to skill up to get to the higher levels. Plus all the equipment that I have in storage now for each 10 levels will become worthless "if" all changes the people seem to read into this one announcement come true.

I have had the sprout beret for 2 years now from getting someone a world pass that changes my level to there's. It was a novelty and useless. Now with the changing of the level on the cloths it might be better for some. But just think about the confusion thats going to fallow. I am sorry but a level 75 relic geared character does not belong in the dunes with 3 others who have no sub job doing a party at level 15.

RPG out the window and now we have lost all story line plus the feeling of the zones. There was a story and reason you wore those cloths. This is what made it some what different then other games who have done this successfully. You cant get some of our equipment until end game and now they would be using them to party with new gamers... think about it.

wrongfeifong

Now how will they destroy the economy for low level item at all?

I can't see it.

- Low level will still get low level gears to level up scalewise. (not like they going to have level 75 gear and equip them to begin with )

- high level Players will STILL keep their low level gears to level LOW level jobs. (a level 75 drg can't wear drg af2 when he go play a level 10 brd)

- You still need food overall.

- People will still Level at newer area if they are smart, Consider if a low level player with no 75 job and he is "SMART" to move area after level a.k.a move from dune to qufim to tower to dessert. He will gain Skill up for weapons/magic/whatever.

But if he STAY in dunes. Just keeping himself Sync all the time, he will NEVER gain any SKILL nor have the gear to do anything. At the end he will become a reject.

While i am sure, no one is that stupid enough to grind the same monster for the whole month. Unless you already have the skill/items. The benefit will be that you don't have to buy new gear if you "stay" sync as a low level player but overall, he is simply killing himself. Beside from the current leveling trend, i only see it get better from every zone up not worse.

 

- I don't think any 55-75 player is stupid enough to level back at dunes with No experience bonus at all. Why would i go kill a gob when i can kill imps for 300 xp. Unless, you have a power leveler, it still not good enough, because those low level goes by fast, xp die fast. The level is according to the lowest level of the party. It take 30 min to get a level in dunes with a power leveler.

 For the record, i like dunes.

- limit zones will always have a level cap, no matter what CoP area will level limit you, you can't be 75 no matter what happen in CoP level limit area. The "Level limit buff" will overwrite your sync... unless you SYNC a low level. (unless you really like a challene)

- Skill wise is 100% sure that will follow the level limit rules as before. The only problem is you have to change your MACRO to match it everytime you do a sync.

 

This whole thing only change level of a high level .... NOT level of the low level. This is completely opposite of Age of conan, where they let a level 1 become level 80 right away.

 

tebian

skill up's for getting lvl's in guild... really...

Satimasu

Originally posted by wrongfeifong


Now how will they destroy the economy for low level item at all?
I can't see it.
- Low level will still get low level gears to level up scalewise. (not like they going to have level 75 gear and equip them to begin with )
- high level Players will STILL keep their low level gears to level LOW level jobs. (a level 75 drg can't wear drg af2 when he go play a level 10 brd)
- You still need food overall.
- People will still Level at newer area if they are smart, Consider if a low level player with no 75 job and he is "SMART" to move area after level a.k.a move from dune to qufim to tower to dessert. He will gain Skill up for weapons/magic/whatever.
But if he STAY in dunes. Just keeping himself Sync all the time, he will NEVER gain any SKILL nor have the gear to do anything. At the end he will become a reject.
While i am sure, no one is that stupid enough to grind the same monster for the whole month. Unless you already have the skill/items. The benefit will be that you don't have to buy new gear if you "stay" sync as a low level player but overall, he is simply killing himself. Beside from the current leveling trend, i only see it get better from every zone up not worse.
 
- I don't think any 55-75 player is stupid enough to level back at dunes with No experience bonus at all. Why would i go kill a gob when i can kill imps for 300 xp. Unless, you have a power leveler, it still not good enough, because those low level goes by fast, xp die fast. The level is according to the lowest level of the party. It take 30 min to get a level in dunes with a power leveler.
 For the record, i like dunes.
- limit zones will always have a level cap, no matter what CoP area will level limit you, you can't be 75 no matter what happen in CoP level limit area. The "Level limit buff" will overwrite your sync... unless you SYNC a low level. (unless you really like a challene)
- Skill wise is 100% sure that will follow the level limit rules as before. The only problem is you have to change your MACRO to match it everytime you do a sync.
 
This whole thing only change level of a high level .... NOT level of the low level. This is completely opposite of Age of conan, where they let a level 1 become level 80 right away.
 

 

Bingo.

 

Tebian, I just think you misunderstood the synching thing. I'm not going to talk for you though.

 

You still need the gear to level a new job on, not everyone has all jobs at 75. I don't think it'll cripple things for crafters. Since our higher gear isn't going to be better than gear around whatever level we synch to, I think you'll still have the people that want to have the best stuff on using that gear.

We need this more than anything. This will fix the one issue that has been around since this game began. The whole finding some job to level with your friends thing.

ic0n67

There has been discussion about this in my ls too. From the intial reaction no one likes it (other than me). I don't think people over all understand how this is going to be helpful. This is something where you can fill in gaps, not make a career. This is how sync should be used:

Situation #1:

There is a party of RDM WHM BLM THF SAM about level 55 looking to do a party they sit for 10 - 20 minutes looking for a NIN to complete the party. So they go to the LS to the level 72 NIN that just logged on. They ask the lvl 72 to party, he aggrees, they sync, bob's your uncle we have a party.

Situation #2:

You went to Comic Con and you met a girl there who you have been hooking up with for a few weeks now and you decided to invite her to play FFXI with you and you decide to exp with her. You have your lvl 75 WHM so you decide to sync with her (*cinca-cinca bowwow*) and party with her so that was you get to play and get some play.

The cons of these situations ... even less oppritunites for a PUP to party.

This sync is going to have nothing to do with low level gear. Remember these players are already past that low level equipment so they would not be buying it anyway. The only real thing here is that the charater might join a static as their lvl 70 job instead of levelling a job they have only a mild interest in playing just they don't buy the low level equipment to level that job. This will not happen much I don't think so you might see an extra 5-6 leather armor sets on the AH. It won't be the collapse of the economy.

What it COULD do it mess up the middle range items. Once you find a nice area where the exp is really flowing you could set it up so you swap out your lowest party memeber so you could stay at that spot. So conceivably you coudl skip all equipment from say 45 to 75, but then again you are missing out on some really great armor in that range that would make your party more effeicent by having it.

@Suplynddmnd

It seems no one in this game likes change.

Yes this is all speculation at this point. From reading the original post I got the feeling that SE had this idea for a little while now, but they didn't implement it with the RTM pendemic going around. I think they have most all their eggs in the basket on this one. Still there is going to be crap that is broken and it will not work as they intended, people will find those exploits, etc etc etc. It won't be perfect at first, but my iteration 2-3 all the issues we are finding will be addressed or swept under the carpet.

If you think about it they do have ideas that never work out right at first. Like early on then you could dupe items or how Campaign Battle is kinda like how Beseiged originally started. It takes time to iron out the kinks.

And trust me. This isn't going to be a game changer as you'd think it is. Everyone isn't gonna hang out in the dunes forever (although there is that option now). It is for a handful of situations when you are trying to patch up holes. Tell me it won't be sweet when you don't have to wait for a hour or so for a tank to pop or to lfm for a refresher when you need to go sleep so you can get up for school/work the next day.

@Teiban

You won't have the "full version" of your relic at 15. I think that it is going to be more like a skin. So your armor looks like PLD relic, but as far as stats go it plays more like a lizard armor set. They already have equipment that has this level aspect; Tamas rignt for example will give you MP based on your level so every 5 lvls or so you can get more MP out of the ring. Conceivably you could make the PLD sync down to a level and ware the real amor from that level, but i think the sync equipment this is just more of a convenience. How many times have you asked someone in your LS for help in a CoP capped area and you get a response like: "I'd help, but I have no equipment for that level" ... now skip head to after the update:

You: (Party?)

Them: "I'd so tank for you, but I have no job at that level"

You: (okay sync)

Them: "I'd so tank for you, but I have no equipment at that level"

You: (nope, try again ...)

Personally I am gonna walk past the synced PLD in relic and /point and /laugh when they die because they forget they are lvl 15 and can't walk in front of a goblin ... but then again I'm an a**hole.

@Everyone

I think the major thing that people are missing from the announcement is:

"Rather than automatically unequipping items if a player's level is reduced below the item's minimum level, the attributes of high-level equipment will be scaled down proportionally to the reduced level.

This will apply not only to the Level Sync system, but to all level-restricted areas and missions. This means that players will now be able to participate in various battlefields, Assault missions, and Ballista, and also to adventure in level-capped areas such as Riverne without the hassle of having to switch equipment!" ~SE website

THAT will be the game changer. CoP missions, City 5-1, BCNM, ISNM, Assaults. All those things you don't do at lower levels that you don't do because of equipment problems ... bye-bye crappy excuse. How many people have hundreds of beastseals in their inventory and no one want to do any of the BCNMs because they don't have level specific equipment? Please raise you hand. Anyone ever shout for hours for a CoP mission and you end up asking your LS and you have 10 people jump up and say they'd help if they have the equipment? Who keeps level 50 gear for City 5-1? Now you won't have to worry about equipment falling off. I have have CoP done for a while might mind you, but now A LOT of people will be able to get that crap done. I mean it would still be helpful for people to have the right jobs leveled, but then again you can always go level SMN and sync with your LS mates ... world comes full circle ...

In conclusion Libia is a land of conflicts thank you.

wrongfeifong

seriously, ballista going to become popular again because of this.

 

Satimasu

Originally posted by ic0n67


There has been discussion about this in my ls too. From the intial reaction no one likes it (other than me). I don't think people over all understand how this is going to be helpful. This is something where you can fill in gaps, not make a career. This is how sync should be used:
Situation #1:
There is a party of RDM WHM BLM THF SAM about level 55 looking to do a party they sit for 10 - 20 minutes looking for a NIN to complete the party. So they go to the LS to the level 72 NIN that just logged on. They ask the lvl 72 to party, he aggrees, they sync, bob's your uncle we have a party.
Situation #2:
You went to Comic Con and you met a girl there who you have been hooking up with for a few weeks now and you decided to invite her to play FFXI with you and you decide to exp with her. You have your lvl 75 WHM so you decide to sync with her (*cinca-cinca bowwow*) and party with her so that was you get to play and get some play.
The cons of these situations ... even less oppritunites for a PUP to party.
This sync is going to have nothing to do with low level gear. Remember these players are already past that low level equipment so they would not be buying it anyway. The only real thing here is that the charater might join a static as their lvl 70 job instead of levelling a job they have only a mild interest in playing just they don't buy the low level equipment to level that job. This will not happen much I don't think so you might see an extra 5-6 leather armor sets on the AH. It won't be the collapse of the economy.
What it COULD do it mess up the middle range items. Once you find a nice area where the exp is really flowing you could set it up so you swap out your lowest party memeber so you could stay at that spot. So conceivably you coudl skip all equipment from say 45 to 75, but then again you are missing out on some really great armor in that range that would make your party more effeicent by having it.
@Suplynddmnd
It seems no one in this game likes change.
Yes this is all speculation at this point. From reading the original post I got the feeling that SE had this idea for a little while now, but they didn't implement it with the RTM pendemic going around. I think they have most all their eggs in the basket on this one. Still there is going to be crap that is broken and it will not work as they intended, people will find those exploits, etc etc etc. It won't be perfect at first, but my iteration 2-3 all the issues we are finding will be addressed or swept under the carpet.
If you think about it they do have ideas that never work out right at first. Like early on then you could dupe items or how Campaign Battle is kinda like how Beseiged originally started. It takes time to iron out the kinks.
And trust me. This isn't going to be a game changer as you'd think it is. Everyone isn't gonna hang out in the dunes forever (although there is that option now). It is for a handful of situations when you are trying to patch up holes. Tell me it won't be sweet when you don't have to wait for a hour or so for a tank to pop or to lfm for a refresher when you need to go sleep so you can get up for school/work the next day.
@Teiban
You won't have the "full version" of your relic at 15. I think that it is going to be more like a skin. So your armor looks like PLD relic, but as far as stats go it plays more like a lizard armor set. They already have equipment that has this level aspect; Tamas rignt for example will give you MP based on your level so every 5 lvls or so you can get more MP out of the ring. Conceivably you could make the PLD sync down to a level and ware the real amor from that level, but i think the sync equipment this is just more of a convenience. How many times have you asked someone in your LS for help in a CoP capped area and you get a response like: "I'd help, but I have no equipment for that level" ... now skip head to after the update:
You: (Party?)

Them: "I'd so tank for you, but I have no job at that level"

You: (okay sync)

Them: "I'd so tank for you, but I have no equipment at that level"

You: (nope, try again ...)
Personally I am gonna walk past the synced PLD in relic and /point and /laugh when they die because they forget they are lvl 15 and can't walk in front of a goblin ... but then again I'm an a**hole.
@Everyone
I think the major thing that people are missing from the announcement is:
"Rather than automatically unequipping items if a player's level is reduced below the item's minimum level, the attributes of high-level equipment will be scaled down proportionally to the reduced level.

This will apply not only to the Level Sync system, but to all level-restricted areas and missions. This means that players will now be able to participate in various battlefields, Assault missions, and Ballista, and also to adventure in level-capped areas such as Riverne without the hassle of having to switch equipment!" ~SE website
THAT will be the game changer. CoP missions, City 5-1, BCNM, ISNM, Assaults. All those things you don't do at lower levels that you don't do because of equipment problems ... bye-bye crappy excuse. How many people have hundreds of beastseals in their inventory and no one want to do any of the BCNMs because they don't have level specific equipment? Please raise you hand. Anyone ever shout for hours for a CoP mission and you end up asking your LS and you have 10 people jump up and say they'd help if they have the equipment? Who keeps level 50 gear for City 5-1? Now you won't have to worry about equipment falling off. I have have CoP done for a while might mind you, but now A LOT of people will be able to get that crap done. I mean it would still be helpful for people to have the right jobs leveled, but then again you can always go level SMN and sync with your LS mates ... world comes full circle ...
In conclusion Libia is a land of conflicts thank you.

 

Bingo again. I can see the cons of maybe random people asking you to party all the time at your higher level and all that. That could be easily taken care of with /anon or a search comment though. If someone tries to just stay in one area to level to 75, they'll just be hurting themselves with getting no skillups, which they'll have to make up in some other way. A lot of people have been waiting for something like this.

ipod80gb

Most games actually RAISE the lower level players.. such as AoC / CoH (Sidekick system). GW2 is gonna have this feature as well.

Suplyndmnd

In conclusion Libia is a land of conflicts thank you.

Agreed, but they seem to want to change this soon.