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VG re-review: not really worth the money

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Comments

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Ok, the last several people have been talking about how VG isn't linear and freedom this freedom that has been the core design behind the game.

    How does Vanguard differ from any other mainstream fantasy MMO?  The only real difference I could see was the removal of zone/chunk barriers and long travel times.  Otherwise the core gameplay is pretty much identical.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the world is beautiful and doesn't give the confined feeling most games do.  It is the single strongest point of Vanguard.  However I don't think that makes the game any less linear than the next title.  Well most games....

     

    What am I missing?

  • dsebutchrdsebutchr Member Posts: 245

    Best advice anyone can give you.  Play the game for yourself and make your own decision.

    You can find the game in bargain bins for 20 bucks.  That's less than half of the new games coming out. 

    Make your own decision.  Fanbois and the rest of us have ours already.

  • OrphesOrphes Member UncommonPosts: 3,039
    Originally posted by Daffid011


    Ok, the last several people have been talking about how VG isn't linear and freedom this freedom that has been the core design behind the game.
    How does Vanguard differ from any other mainstream fantasy MMO?  The only real difference I could see was the removal of zone/chunk barriers and long travel times.  Otherwise the core gameplay is pretty much identical.
    Don't get me wrong, I think the world is beautiful and doesn't give the confined feeling most games do.  It is the single strongest point of Vanguard.  However I don't think that makes the game any less linear than the next title.  Well most games....
     
    What am I missing?

     

    I'm not shure what you mean.

    For example.

    In one game you progress to get the next availble /better/ skill and the other game you progress to the next level. In the end that is just different shades of grey.

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Vallanor

    Originally posted by Bodeus

    Originally posted by vladww


    Though i respect this review, i disagree 100% with what the OP writes.
    Many play VG because it's sandboxy & non linear. Making VG linear & spoon fed would completly destroy the game imo.

     

    Your "many" is not that many. Making VG  a little more linear and "spoon fed" as you put it might ruin it for your tiny "many" but imo would attract many more times your "many" than they would lose.

    Of course as a wise man once said-

    "Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have them and they all stink"

     

    I would agree that the Vanguard "many" isn't really all that many.  But I would also argue that the reason for that is primarily the buggy release and failure on Sigil's part to own up to the promises they made.  If they had actually succeeded at making the "spiritual successor to Everquest" as they claimed they would do, the "many" would be many indeed.  So really, the lack of a large following for Vanguard has little to do with its non-linear nature.  Making the game more streamlined would hardly increase its following either, in my estimation.

    While I'm sure you're absolutely right that a more linear, "spoon fed" game will, all else being equal, be more successful than a non-linear game, I don't think it's fair to look at Vanguard as proof that very few people are interested in sand-box style play.  The massive pre-release following of Vanguard is proof of that.

     

    I disagree. Bodeus is correct. If Vanguard was more streamlined and gave more direction to its players then it would attract a lot more people to it.

    I really cant see why you refer to Vanguard as a non-linear sandbox style game as Vanguard is anything but that. Its a themepark game and follows exactly the same game design as WoW and EQ2.......obviously having more in common with EQ2. Like both of those games its a static world that you cannot influence in any way. You go to an area, complete the quests given by the npc and then move on once the area has become worthless to you and then go looking for the next area in the themepark world. You increase your level and as you get more powerful it allows you to do similar quests but in a different part of the gameworld. The players are all independant of each other though so the actions of one person dont really impact on the game experience of the others as the world is static. Its like that with WoW, its like that with EQ2 and its like that with Vanguard.

    The only difference with Vanguard is that the world is open and seamless and you have to wander around lots looking for something to do, hoping that you might stumble across something interesting. Many people call this exploring but you wander around a 3d world in all the other mmos to.......the difference is that in the other games there is less "I am wandering around wondering what to do" and more "I am going somewhere with a purpose".

    Vanguard is a standard thempark game which has less players than other games such as WoW and EQ2 because it lacks direction and polish (its nowhere near as stable & playable as the other games), which is a shame because the setting and character choice is far more interesting.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Orphes

    Originally posted by Daffid011


    Ok, the last several people have been talking about how VG isn't linear and freedom this freedom that has been the core design behind the game.
    How does Vanguard differ from any other mainstream fantasy MMO?  The only real difference I could see was the removal of zone/chunk barriers and long travel times.  Otherwise the core gameplay is pretty much identical.
    Don't get me wrong, I think the world is beautiful and doesn't give the confined feeling most games do.  It is the single strongest point of Vanguard.  However I don't think that makes the game any less linear than the next title.  Well most games....
     
    What am I missing?

     

    I'm not shure what you mean.

    For example.

    In one game you progress to get the next availble /better/ skill and the other game you progress to the next level. In the end that is just different shades of grey.

     

    Thats exactly the point Daffid is making. Vanguard is a linear themepark game pretty much like all the other mmos out there. It doesnt really do anything differently at all. It has lots of empty wilderness in it though and all the quest-giving npcs are spaced out and many of them are hidden and have to be found (ie the game doesnt tell you where they all are) but the difference pretty much ends there. Essentially Vanguard doesnt offer any more freedom than any other mmo on the market. You do the quests, you go up levels, you get better equipment, you move onto the next area and repeat. Its really nothing new.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by dsebutchr


    Best advice anyone can give you.  Play the game for yourself and make your own decision.
    You can find the game in bargain bins for 20 bucks.  That's less than half of the new games coming out. 
    Make your own decision.  Fanbois and the rest of us have ours already.

     

    ......except Vanguard is not a new game.

  • OrphesOrphes Member UncommonPosts: 3,039
    Originally posted by neonwire

    Originally posted by Orphes

    Originally posted by Daffid011


    Ok, the last several people have been talking about how VG isn't linear and freedom this freedom that has been the core design behind the game.
    How does Vanguard differ from any other mainstream fantasy MMO?  The only real difference I could see was the removal of zone/chunk barriers and long travel times.  Otherwise the core gameplay is pretty much identical.
    Don't get me wrong, I think the world is beautiful and doesn't give the confined feeling most games do.  It is the single strongest point of Vanguard.  However I don't think that makes the game any less linear than the next title.  Well most games....
     
    What am I missing?

     

    I'm not shure what you mean.

    For example.

    In one game you progress to get the next availble /better/ skill and the other game you progress to the next level. In the end that is just different shades of grey.

     

    Thats exactly the point Daffid is making. Vanguard is a linear themepark game pretty much like all the other mmos out there. It doesnt really do anything differently at all. It has lots of empty wilderness in it though and all the quest-giving npcs are spaced out and many of them are hidden and have to be found (ie the game doesnt tell you where they all are) but the difference pretty much ends there. Essentially Vanguard doesnt offer any more freedom than any other mmo on the market. You do the quests, you go up levels, you get better equipment, you move onto the next area and repeat. Its really nothing new.

     

    So, you are just arguing for argument sake.

    I think you fail to see that I mean that if a game is touted as a skill-based, nonlinear and sandbox game. The game still really is not.

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Orphes

    Originally posted by neonwire

    Originally posted by Orphes

    Originally posted by Daffid011


    Ok, the last several people have been talking about how VG isn't linear and freedom this freedom that has been the core design behind the game.
    How does Vanguard differ from any other mainstream fantasy MMO?  The only real difference I could see was the removal of zone/chunk barriers and long travel times.  Otherwise the core gameplay is pretty much identical.
    Don't get me wrong, I think the world is beautiful and doesn't give the confined feeling most games do.  It is the single strongest point of Vanguard.  However I don't think that makes the game any less linear than the next title.  Well most games....
     
    What am I missing?

     

    I'm not shure what you mean.

    For example.

    In one game you progress to get the next availble /better/ skill and the other game you progress to the next level. In the end that is just different shades of grey.

     

    Thats exactly the point Daffid is making. Vanguard is a linear themepark game pretty much like all the other mmos out there. It doesnt really do anything differently at all. It has lots of empty wilderness in it though and all the quest-giving npcs are spaced out and many of them are hidden and have to be found (ie the game doesnt tell you where they all are) but the difference pretty much ends there. Essentially Vanguard doesnt offer any more freedom than any other mmo on the market. You do the quests, you go up levels, you get better equipment, you move onto the next area and repeat. Its really nothing new.

     

    So, you are just arguing for argument sake.

    I think you fail to see that I mean that if a game is touted as a skill-based, nonlinear and sandbox game. The game still really is not.

     

    Oh right sorry I see what you mean now. Yeah you're correct........in fact I dont think I have ever seen an mmo that offers any real freedom actually. They're all pretty much the same. They either have quests which they guide you through or they have quests which they dont guide you through (shrugs).

  • OrphesOrphes Member UncommonPosts: 3,039
    Originally posted by neonwire

    Originally posted by Orphes

    Originally posted by neonwire

    Originally posted by Orphes

    Originally posted by Daffid011


    Ok, the last several people have been talking about how VG isn't linear and freedom this freedom that has been the core design behind the game.
    How does Vanguard differ from any other mainstream fantasy MMO?  The only real difference I could see was the removal of zone/chunk barriers and long travel times.  Otherwise the core gameplay is pretty much identical.
    Don't get me wrong, I think the world is beautiful and doesn't give the confined feeling most games do.  It is the single strongest point of Vanguard.  However I don't think that makes the game any less linear than the next title.  Well most games....
     
    What am I missing?

     

    I'm not shure what you mean.

    For example.

    In one game you progress to get the next availble /better/ skill and the other game you progress to the next level. In the end that is just different shades of grey.

     

    Thats exactly the point Daffid is making. Vanguard is a linear themepark game pretty much like all the other mmos out there. It doesnt really do anything differently at all. It has lots of empty wilderness in it though and all the quest-giving npcs are spaced out and many of them are hidden and have to be found (ie the game doesnt tell you where they all are) but the difference pretty much ends there. Essentially Vanguard doesnt offer any more freedom than any other mmo on the market. You do the quests, you go up levels, you get better equipment, you move onto the next area and repeat. Its really nothing new.

     

    So, you are just arguing for argument sake.

    I think you fail to see that I mean that if a game is touted as a skill-based, nonlinear and sandbox game. The game still really is not.

     

    Oh right sorry I see what you mean now. Yeah you're correct........in fact I dont think I have ever seen an mmo that offers any real freedom actually. They're all pretty much the same. They either have quests which they guide you through or they have quests which they dont guide you through (shrugs).

     

    Kind of agree with that shrug.

     

    :D

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • YunbeiYunbei Member Posts: 898

    I am surprised this thread still lives. Due to the Trial Isle and GU6 I make some additional comments.

    The Isle of Dawn is a blast to play. Its great MMO craftsmanship. However, it kinds deludes people about the overall quality of the game. You see how a game could be if made streamlined and well designed. It shows how you can "lead" people without hook-nosing them around (like in LOTRO). It shows a good direction, but tbh, it would take a tremendous effort to rework the rest of the game to give it a similar atmosphere and density like the Trial Isle. Its a real improvement and VG has its strengths, so I would be less harsh today, but still, the lacking parts are too glaring for me to really play it seriously.

    image

  • SholShol Member Posts: 361
    Originally posted by Yunbei


    I am surprised this thread still lives. Due to the Trial Isle and GU6 I make some additional comments.
    The Isle of Dawn is a blast to play. Its great MMO craftsmanship. However, it kinds deludes people about the overall quality of the game. You see how a game could be if made streamlined and well designed. It shows how you can "lead" people without hook-nosing them around (like in LOTRO). It shows a good direction, but tbh, it would take a tremendous effort to rework the rest of the game to give it a similar atmosphere and density like the Trial Isle. Its a real improvement and VG has its strengths, so I would be less harsh today, but still, the lacking parts are too glaring for me to really play it seriously.

     

    Thats how another person saw IoD:

    Finally, I could not find any quests or any helpful information on figuring out the game on the trial isle. There is only one tutorial that I found about diplomacy. And the diplomacy system seemed really stupid to me. Like a mini card game. That turned me off as well. The trial isle seems to just leave you to figure stuff out all by yourself. Hell I couldnt even figure out how to talk in the global chat to ask questions. The game is just not very intuitive at all.

     

    I only quote it to show the difference between the peoples opinion about what a good mmorpg is about.

     

    Personally I liked the isle, but its too easy for my taste.

  • GGaFxGGaFx Member Posts: 151

    honestly i would like to see in VG be a pvp lvling system some what like WAR but that would be asking soe to look at the FFA server.  HAHA

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by GGaFx


    honestly i would like to see in VG be a pvp lvling system some what like WAR but that would be asking soe to look at the FFA server.  HAHA



     

    Careful there.......the VEC (Vanguard Elitist Carebear squad) will be knocking on your door before you know it for saying such a thing.

    You will be dragged off to a dark cell and tortured by a machine that forces you to wack plastic moles repeatedly and each time you wack one the machine will say comforting & encouraging words like "you are safe", "You are skillful", "Well done have another go" and "You are improving". Then a person in a lab coat will come in and punch you in the head repeatedly and each time he will say unpleasant things like "You are not safe", "You have no skill", "I own you" and "You are inferior".

    The process will alternate between the two for a VERY long time until eventually you will be unable to comprehend anything good about PvP and will sincerely believe that PvE is the way of the future. Then you will be released back into the world and you will be back on these forums posting such messages as "PvP can never work well in a game" and "I just want to be left in peace while I play my online game with thousands of other people".

    For this reason I would highly recommend that you watch what you say about PvP especially on the Vanguard forums.

  • bcrankshawbcrankshaw Member Posts: 547
    Originally posted by neonwire

    Originally posted by GGaFx


    honestly i would like to see in VG be a pvp lvling system some what like WAR but that would be asking soe to look at the FFA server.  HAHA



     

    Careful there.......the VEC (Vanguard Elitist Carebear squad) will be knocking on your door before you know it for saying such a thing.

    You will be dragged off to a dark cell and tortured by a machine that forces you to wack plastic moles repeatedly and each time you wack one the machine will say comforting & encouraging words like "you are safe", "You are skillful", "Well done have another go" and "You are improving". Then a person in a lab coat will come in and punch you in the head repeatedly and each time he will say unpleasant things like "You are not safe", "You have no skill", "I own you" and "You are inferior".

    The process will alternate between the two for a VERY long time until eventually you will be unable to comprehend anything good about PvP and will sincerely believe that PvE is the way of the future. Then you will be released back into the world and you will be back on these forums posting such messages as "PvP can never work well in a game" and "I just want to be left in peace while I play my online game with thousands of other people".

    For this reason I would highly recommend that you watch what you say about PvP especially on the Vanguard forums.



     

    Sorry neonwire but your cynicism and sarcasm is not really relevant to the majority of people who play and love Vanguard .Vanguard is not a PVP game ....fact.It's strength lies in PVE and thats what the thousands of people who play enjoy.Its not a question of whether PVP or PVE is better ..its a personal preference

    I'm surprised you think that in an MMO PVP has to be trenchant or supported  ..it really doesn't

    :)

    "after the time of dice came the day of mice "

  • xoonerxooner Member Posts: 5

    Vanguard could of had a large (yes, large) active playerbase if the beta ran smooth like silk and without bugs and into release.

    Most left or were scared off because the game just did't run well. PERIOD!!

    The group-centered hardcore play with SLOW leveling and non-spoon fed content is very marketable and workable.  (Content is posted online and through add-ons regardless of in-game information anyway.) 

    Don't pretend Vanguard failed for any other reason than releasing an unfinished product killed by word-of-mouth upon release.

    I happen to like the current state of the game and the original version of Vanguard.  Both have pros and cons and both have healthy target markets.  I happen to believe the wow-style gameplay has a larger market, but whatever, different strokes for different folks.

    It does suck that players are forced to ignore lots of group content at nearly every level simply because you can only get a group in the favorite areas. That's the downside of a low population.  But you know what, even if you could find groups for many areas, without using many alts, most players level so fast now with easy xp that you out-level content before you can enjoy it.  That's why there is so much content in Vanguard, because the game was designed for SLOW leveling.  And since each level was designed to take FOREVER to play you would naturally move around and enjoy all the content for a given level. 

    Take Greystone for example, on my last alt I couldn't even complete the weapon quest before all the mobs were gray to me.  I leveled so FAST that groups wouldn't invite me because I was ruining xp for other players.

     

     

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