No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
Yeah I guess you can, just read up on that. But I guess if you don't consider losing gear a big deal then I don't know what to tell you. Either someone had to gather the ingredients necessary to craft the item or they killed something to get it. However a person comes by an item, if they lose it it's still a loss, not a gain.
But like I said, this game is not for everyone. For some people, spending countless hours of raid grinding to get the uber gear is what's important. For others, it's boobs, pee, and amazing graphics. And for others like the old UO enthusiasts, we want a sandbox game where we can do whatever we want. We want a game where there are consequences to dying, not just respawning and rebuffing.
To each his/her own.
I don't know what's so difficult to understand about what I was asking. I have repeatedly in this Forum read people claim that Full Loot is great because it adds excitement and because it hurts the player (I subscribe to that. It makes PvP a whole different monster).
And on the other hand I am told that gear does not matter in this game. That items are easily replaceable and that everyone will likely have about a dozen Gearstes in the vault anyway.
I'm merely pointing out a contradiction here. To put it simple: If items are easily replaceable and don't make much difference in the first place, Full Loot is not the same incentive as it is otherwise. If I go into a fight, knowing that i could lose a weapon that gives me a decisive edge over others, or lose a ship that I've invested a whole months savings into, then that gets the blood flowing.
If I go into a battle, knowing I could lose some stuff, but it won#t make that much of a difference then...mh. Full Loot is just slight bother. Nothing more.
So, again, my question. Is losing gear really going to hurt. Or is it going to be a mild annoyance at best?
A couple things stand out for Darkfall vs other games right away. Seamless world - no instancing whatsoever. This alone makes me want to play. Do you realize how rare this is to find in a MMOG nowadays? All instancing sucks and is simply an excuse for not working harder to produce a better game. MMOGs are supposed to be about one seamless world where everyone can see and meet and interact with everyone else, with both good and bad encounters resulting. Significiant death penalty. Another rarity in MMOGs nowadays and something I miss because it keeps the game world real by making people cautious and prevents zerging. You can lose all your items even the best ones, nothing can be protected or saved or insured to prevent it. If you die you can and most likely will be looted. So now you are gonna think before you attack and plan and strategize and respect the environment like you should. Immersion factor is increased 100%. Skill based system. Skill based systems are superior to class systems. You have the freedom to choose almost any skill to learn, the exception being some racial only skills to balance choosing one race over another which is a good thing. Skills must be practiced and maintained in order to max out and keep maxed out for optimum performance. Now everyone will be unique and there is no knowing what your foe brings to battle so you can't predetermine how to plan your attack like you would with a class system. This results in much more interesting combat. These three things alone make me want to play the game regardless of anything else. Some of us old school gamers have been pleading for a game like this for years because most developers have ignored us and keep releasing dummied down theme park games like WoW and Warhammer and we are fed up with the crappy selection of current MMOGs which makes us defensive when a game like Darkfall comes along which caters to our desires.
I played UO ... a lot. I was younger then though so I stuck to PvE mostly. I loved that I could go as a pleased and see whatever part of the world I wanted. It's my favorite game ever. That is of course a real short verison, but it was great.
However, I hated when I went to Felucca. People camped the gates, came in waves to kill anything they saw, and it was ALL senseless. I did them no wrong, I was just nicely running through the woods. I wasn't an Orc and they were an Elf or I was in the Crips and they were Bloods... it was just a gankfest. Was not fun in the least.
And everything in those Darkfall videos showed the same deal, mindless PvP gankfesting. I didn't see them attacking a dragon or taming a dragon, fishing, cooking, housing, or any of the things I liked about UO. Only the gankfest I and MOST people that played UO hated.
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
If you took all the items out of wow there would be no game.
If you took the items out of darkfall it wouldn't matter very much.
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
Yeah I guess you can, just read up on that. But I guess if you don't consider losing gear a big deal then I don't know what to tell you. Either someone had to gather the ingredients necessary to craft the item or they killed something to get it. However a person comes by an item, if they lose it it's still a loss, not a gain.
But like I said, this game is not for everyone. For some people, spending countless hours of raid grinding to get the uber gear is what's important. For others, it's boobs, pee, and amazing graphics. And for others like the old UO enthusiasts, we want a sandbox game where we can do whatever we want. We want a game where there are consequences to dying, not just respawning and rebuffing.
To each his/her own.
I don't know what's so difficult to understand about what I was asking. I have repeatedly in this Forum read people claim that Full Loot is great because it adds excitement and because it hurts the player (I subscribe to that. It makes PvP a whole different monster).
And on the other hand I am told that gear does not matter in this game. That items are easily replaceable and that everyone will likely have about a dozen Gearstes in the vault anyway.
I'm merely pointing out a contradiction here. To put it simple: If items are easily replaceable and don't make much difference in the first place, Full Loot is not the same incentive as it is otherwise. If I go into a fight, knowing that i could lose a weapon that gives me a decisive edge over others, or lose a ship that I've invested a whole months savings into, then that gets the blood flowing.
If I go into a battle, knowing I could lose some stuff, but it won#t make that much of a difference then...mh. Full Loot is just slight bother. Nothing more.
So, again, my question. Is losing gear really going to hurt. Or is it going to be a mild annoyance at best?
I'm sorry for asking but, are you slow or something? I'm not sure how I can word what I've said any differently than what I did to make you understand.
When you lose something valuable, it's considered a loss, no? If someone steals a CD out of your car, you no longer have it, correct? No after someone steals a CD out of your car, would you consider that a loss or a gain? Forget how valuable that CD was to you, was it a loss or a gain?
It's really not difficult to understand this concept of loss versus gain. Either you gain something or you lose something. There is time associated with acquiring goods in any game and when you lose that gear it cost you something.
*taps mic*
Is this thing on?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I read that its all about not having to go down some path its free. Well i hate to break your wee hearts the game wont survive with the 100 to 200 people that are going to play this game. Open is cool but it has its flaws and this one will be a dissappointment. Plagued with delays, budget restraints, this game sounds good in theory but unfortunatly it will be a dissappointment to u all.
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
A couple things stand out for Darkfall vs other games right away. Seamless world - no instancing whatsoever. This alone makes me want to play. Do you realize how rare this is to find in a MMOG nowadays? All instancing sucks and is simply an excuse for not working harder to produce a better game. MMOGs are supposed to be about one seamless world where everyone can see and meet and interact with everyone else, with both good and bad encounters resulting. Significiant death penalty. Another rarity in MMOGs nowadays and something I miss because it keeps the game world real by making people cautious and prevents zerging. You can lose all your items even the best ones, nothing can be protected or saved or insured to prevent it. If you die you can and most likely will be looted. So now you are gonna think before you attack and plan and strategize and respect the environment like you should. Immersion factor is increased 100%. Skill based system. Skill based systems are superior to class systems. You have the freedom to choose almost any skill to learn, the exception being some racial only skills to balance choosing one race over another which is a good thing. Skills must be practiced and maintained in order to max out and keep maxed out for optimum performance. Now everyone will be unique and there is no knowing what your foe brings to battle so you can't predetermine how to plan your attack like you would with a class system. This results in much more interesting combat. These three things alone make me want to play the game regardless of anything else. Some of us old school gamers have been pleading for a game like this for years because most developers have ignored us and keep releasing dummied down theme park games like WoW and Warhammer and we are fed up with the crappy selection of current MMOGs which makes us defensive when a game like Darkfall comes along which caters to our desires.
Vanguard did 2 out of the 3, seamless world and death penalty, its not doing good at all. How do you figure Darkfall will change that? Skill based is big difference, but only thing that sucks with skill base is its always exploitable. Boneknight room anyone? While it makes good sense to have this, companies have gone away from it because you can exploit ways to get max skills very easily 99% of the time.
I played UO ... a lot. I was younger then though so I stuck to PvE mostly. I loved that I could go as a pleased and see whatever part of the world I wanted. It's my favorite game ever. That is of course a real short verison, but it was great. However, I hated when I went to Felucca. People camped the gates, came in waves to kill anything they saw, and it was ALL senseless. I did them no wrong, I was just nicely running through the woods. I wasn't an Orc and they were an Elf or I was in the Crips and they were Bloods... it was just a gankfest. Was not fun in the least. And everything in those Darkfall videos showed the same deal, mindless PvP gankfesting. I didn't see them attacking a dragon or taming a dragon, fishing, cooking, housing, or any of the things I liked about UO. Only the gankfest I and MOST people that played UO hated.
Well just because they didn't show all that stuff doesn't mean it's not in the game. You have to remember that the world is the biggest ever created in an MMO and you can literally go out solo in the middle of nowhere, fight stuff, and never be seen.
Sure it will be of benefit to have a group or guild to tag along with but there are also measures to ensure that gankfests won't be without consequence.
First, there is a penalty to killing people such as guards attacking you and not being able to go to certain areas. And when someone is flagged they can be attacked by anyone, just like in UO.
Second, there are no level/class/health meters in the game so you never know who's who and how strong they are so you have to be careful in who you attack.
I'm sure there will be PvP gank groups running around but there will also be anti-gank groups. The game is what you make of it but it's not going to be for everyone (broken record there).
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
So, again, my question. Is losing gear really going to hurt. Or is it going to be a mild annoyance at best?
It will hurt to various degrees depending on the individual. Solo players who have to earn everything themselves will hurt more. Members of clans who have lots of friends to help them make or buy or be given replacements will hurt less. Wealthy individuals will hurt less than poor individuals. But if you die a lot, it will hurt. It's something you will want to avoid and that is the purpose of a significant death penalty. It changes how you play the game and how you look at the gameworld.
In WoW for example, I didn't care if I died because I lost nothing, just a temporary loss of stats and minor repairs which meant nothing to me. I even killed myself at times just to port across a zone. Isn't that a joke? When you don't care about dying, you play recklessly and your entire outlook of the gameworld is different. When you don't have real consequences, you don't feel you are in a virtual world, just a theme park.
I read that its all about not having to go down some path its free. Well i hate to break your wee hearts the game wont survive with the 100 to 200 people that are going to play this game. Open is cool but it has its flaws and this one will be a dissappointment. Plagued with delays, budget restraints, this game sounds good in theory but unfortunatly it will be a dissappointment to u all.
Hehe, 75K+ forum members (and growing) say otherwise.
It's ok though, there's always WoW or AoC for you to go play.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
So...summing up, this is what I get from the answers to my questions:
"It hurts depending on your personal preference. It's a loss, but it can be easily replaced."
Is that about right?
P.S.: No, this is not a flamebait or anything. Thanks to everyone who tried to explain this to me. Apparently I -am- slow, yes, because I still fail to see the excitement this adds to the whole, but at least I now know what I'm dealing with. (And before anyone complains, other factors are important in PvP, so this is just one factor that decides on the fun/intensity of PvP in DF. I had originally thought it would be a more grueling experience.)
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
There is no spoon...
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I read that its all about not having to go down some path its free. Well i hate to break your wee hearts the game wont survive with the 100 to 200 people that are going to play this game. Open is cool but it has its flaws and this one will be a dissappointment. Plagued with delays, budget restraints, this game sounds good in theory but unfortunatly it will be a dissappointment to u all.
Hehe, 75K+ forum members (and growing) say otherwise.
It's ok though, there's always WoW or AoC for you to go play.
So, I'm sure Vanguard, AoC, and many other prosepecting MMO's had 75K+ forum members doesn't mean they stay to play the game. Try Again.
I read that its all about not having to go down some path its free. Well i hate to break your wee hearts the game wont survive with the 100 to 200 people that are going to play this game. Open is cool but it has its flaws and this one will be a dissappointment. Plagued with delays, budget restraints, this game sounds good in theory but unfortunatly it will be a dissappointment to u all.
Hehe, 75K+ forum members (and growing) say otherwise.
It's ok though, there's always WoW or AoC for you to go play.
So, I'm sure Vanguard, AoC, and many other prosepecting MMO's had 75K+ forum members doesn't mean they stay to play the game. Try Again.
Just curious, what do you care how well Darkfall does?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
It will hurt.
I will have to leave the battle and restock the gear i lost. The time this take depends on how far i have to the backup gear and on game mechanics. If i have to walk for 20 minutes it will hurt more then if i have the opportunity of using some "deathgate" that will respawn me close to a bank. The amount of "hurt" is to be seen when we enter the game.
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
There is no spoon...
Your jibe comes too late.
Aww, well I tried. Sorry we couldn't get together and all.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
So...summing up, this is what I get from the answers to my questions:
"It hurts depending on your personal preference. It's a loss, but it can be easily replaced."
Is that about right?
P.S.: No, this is not a flamebait or anything. Thanks to everyone who tried to explain this to me. Apparently I -am- slow, yes, because I still fail to see the excitement this adds to the whole, but at least I now know what I'm dealing with. (And before anyone complains, other factors are important in PvP, so this is just one factor that decides on the fun/intensity of PvP in DF. I had originally thought it would be a more grueling experience.)
I don't think you will ever get an answer to this, it's purely subjective.
Is getting stung by a bee a hurt or annoyance?
Is getting your house burgled a hurt or annoyance?
Yes it will be unpleasent but your reaction to it will not be the same as anyone else's.
The answer to these questions are different for everyone.
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game. It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
Maybe you're only thinking about items one is carrying? Full loot in DF goes further than that, for example a trader shipping all his goods to a vessel, hiring few mercs to protect it, but gets raided anyway by pirates. Should hurt. Or a clan town getting taken over by a competing clan. Still no hurt?
See, while some random guy losing his invaluable newbie gear might not seem like a huge 'hurt', there are different degrees to full loot.
Anyway, I'm almost certain there are some craftable items that you have to slay dangerous mobs, complete quests, pick an ingredient from the top of a hard to get to mountain, in order to make them. But they don't make you invincible, even if acquiring one might be a challenge.
So...summing up, this is what I get from the answers to my questions:
"It hurts depending on your personal preference. It's a loss, but it can be easily replaced."
Is that about right?
P.S.: No, this is not a flamebait or anything. Thanks to everyone who tried to explain this to me. Apparently I -am- slow, yes, because I still fail to see the excitement this adds to the whole, but at least I now know what I'm dealing with. (And before anyone complains, other factors are important in PvP, so this is just one factor that decides on the fun/intensity of PvP in DF. I had originally thought it would be a more grueling experience.)
I don't think you will ever get an answer to this, it's purely subjective.
Is getting stung by a bee a hurt or annoyance?
Is getting your house burgled a hurt or annoyance?
The answer to these questions are different for everyone.
The only way to know is for you to play it.
That is, in part, why I asked so many questions about it. I wanted to know what kind of loss players can expect in the game. Is the gear going to be hard to be replaced? If it is, is it actually worth something or does it give me an edge in battle? Or is it just a -little- bit more expensive and a -little- bit stronger? All these factors come into play (for me) when deciding if losing gear hurts or doesn't hurt and previous posts about this have been contradicting each other repeatedly, that's why I wanted someone to clarify if they could. Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts on this.
Vanguard did 2 out of the 3, seamless world and death penalty, its not doing good at all. How do you figure Darkfall will change that? Skill based is big difference, but only thing that sucks with skill base is its always exploitable. Boneknight room anyone? While it makes good sense to have this, companies have gone away from it because you can exploit ways to get max skills very easily 99% of the time.
Two things.
First Vanguard had a horrible launch. It was incomplete and plagued with bugs and crashes and slow FPS rates and missing content. First impressions mean everything in the MMOG business. You screwup at launch and you can kiss a majority of gamers goodbye forever. If Darkfall does the same thing it will fail also of course, as any game would.
Second, SOE now controls Vanguard. Having SOE involved with a MMOG is the kiss of death to many gamers including myself. I will never play another SOE game because of how they have ruined previous games, lied to customers, and are now pursuing various forms of RMT in every one of their products.
As far as exploiting goes, I expect every developer to be proactive in stopping cheats and hacks and exploits regardless of wether it's a speed skill macro or a gold/item duping hack etc. whatever. I don't think skill based games are more prone to cheaters than class based games and you don't ruin a MMOG design by not choosing a skill based system or choosing to instance, for example, to stop cheating.
So...summing up, this is what I get from the answers to my questions:
"It hurts depending on your personal preference. It's a loss, but it can be easily replaced."
Is that about right?
P.S.: No, this is not a flamebait or anything. Thanks to everyone who tried to explain this to me. Apparently I -am- slow, yes, because I still fail to see the excitement this adds to the whole, but at least I now know what I'm dealing with. (And before anyone complains, other factors are important in PvP, so this is just one factor that decides on the fun/intensity of PvP in DF. I had originally thought it would be a more grueling experience.)
I don't think you will ever get an answer to this, it's purely subjective.
Is getting stung by a bee a hurt or annoyance?
Is getting your house burgled a hurt or annoyance?
The answer to these questions are different for everyone.
The only way to know is for you to play it.
That is, in part, why I asked so many questions about it. I wanted to know what kind of loss players can expect in the game. Is the gear going to be hard to be replaced? If it is, is it actually worth something or does it give me an edge in battle? Or is it just a -little- bit more expensive and a -little- bit stronger? All these factors come into play (for me) when deciding if losing gear hurts or doesn't hurt and previous posts about this have been contradicting each other repeatedly, that's why I wanted someone to clarify if they could. Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts on this.
Why don't you try beta for yourself and see.
Then maybe you can tell us if losing your gear hurt or was just an inconvenience.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Comments
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
Yeah I guess you can, just read up on that. But I guess if you don't consider losing gear a big deal then I don't know what to tell you. Either someone had to gather the ingredients necessary to craft the item or they killed something to get it. However a person comes by an item, if they lose it it's still a loss, not a gain.
But like I said, this game is not for everyone. For some people, spending countless hours of raid grinding to get the uber gear is what's important. For others, it's boobs, pee, and amazing graphics. And for others like the old UO enthusiasts, we want a sandbox game where we can do whatever we want. We want a game where there are consequences to dying, not just respawning and rebuffing.
To each his/her own.
I don't know what's so difficult to understand about what I was asking. I have repeatedly in this Forum read people claim that Full Loot is great because it adds excitement and because it hurts the player (I subscribe to that. It makes PvP a whole different monster).
And on the other hand I am told that gear does not matter in this game. That items are easily replaceable and that everyone will likely have about a dozen Gearstes in the vault anyway.
I'm merely pointing out a contradiction here. To put it simple: If items are easily replaceable and don't make much difference in the first place, Full Loot is not the same incentive as it is otherwise. If I go into a fight, knowing that i could lose a weapon that gives me a decisive edge over others, or lose a ship that I've invested a whole months savings into, then that gets the blood flowing.
If I go into a battle, knowing I could lose some stuff, but it won#t make that much of a difference then...mh. Full Loot is just slight bother. Nothing more.
So, again, my question. Is losing gear really going to hurt. Or is it going to be a mild annoyance at best?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
/Signed
Good one.
I played UO ... a lot. I was younger then though so I stuck to PvE mostly. I loved that I could go as a pleased and see whatever part of the world I wanted. It's my favorite game ever. That is of course a real short verison, but it was great.
However, I hated when I went to Felucca. People camped the gates, came in waves to kill anything they saw, and it was ALL senseless. I did them no wrong, I was just nicely running through the woods. I wasn't an Orc and they were an Elf or I was in the Crips and they were Bloods... it was just a gankfest. Was not fun in the least.
And everything in those Darkfall videos showed the same deal, mindless PvP gankfesting. I didn't see them attacking a dragon or taming a dragon, fishing, cooking, housing, or any of the things I liked about UO. Only the gankfest I and MOST people that played UO hated.
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
If you took all the items out of wow there would be no game.
If you took the items out of darkfall it wouldn't matter very much.
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
Yeah I guess you can, just read up on that. But I guess if you don't consider losing gear a big deal then I don't know what to tell you. Either someone had to gather the ingredients necessary to craft the item or they killed something to get it. However a person comes by an item, if they lose it it's still a loss, not a gain.
But like I said, this game is not for everyone. For some people, spending countless hours of raid grinding to get the uber gear is what's important. For others, it's boobs, pee, and amazing graphics. And for others like the old UO enthusiasts, we want a sandbox game where we can do whatever we want. We want a game where there are consequences to dying, not just respawning and rebuffing.
To each his/her own.
I don't know what's so difficult to understand about what I was asking. I have repeatedly in this Forum read people claim that Full Loot is great because it adds excitement and because it hurts the player (I subscribe to that. It makes PvP a whole different monster).
And on the other hand I am told that gear does not matter in this game. That items are easily replaceable and that everyone will likely have about a dozen Gearstes in the vault anyway.
I'm merely pointing out a contradiction here. To put it simple: If items are easily replaceable and don't make much difference in the first place, Full Loot is not the same incentive as it is otherwise. If I go into a fight, knowing that i could lose a weapon that gives me a decisive edge over others, or lose a ship that I've invested a whole months savings into, then that gets the blood flowing.
If I go into a battle, knowing I could lose some stuff, but it won#t make that much of a difference then...mh. Full Loot is just slight bother. Nothing more.
So, again, my question. Is losing gear really going to hurt. Or is it going to be a mild annoyance at best?
I'm sorry for asking but, are you slow or something? I'm not sure how I can word what I've said any differently than what I did to make you understand.
When you lose something valuable, it's considered a loss, no? If someone steals a CD out of your car, you no longer have it, correct? No after someone steals a CD out of your car, would you consider that a loss or a gain? Forget how valuable that CD was to you, was it a loss or a gain?
It's really not difficult to understand this concept of loss versus gain. Either you gain something or you lose something. There is time associated with acquiring goods in any game and when you lose that gear it cost you something.
*taps mic*
Is this thing on?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I read that its all about not having to go down some path its free. Well i hate to break your wee hearts the game wont survive with the 100 to 200 people that are going to play this game. Open is cool but it has its flaws and this one will be a dissappointment. Plagued with delays, budget restraints, this game sounds good in theory but unfortunatly it will be a dissappointment to u all.
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Vanguard did 2 out of the 3, seamless world and death penalty, its not doing good at all. How do you figure Darkfall will change that? Skill based is big difference, but only thing that sucks with skill base is its always exploitable. Boneknight room anyone?
While it makes good sense to have this, companies have gone away from it because you can exploit ways to get max skills very easily 99% of the time.
Well that's not a question we can answer because it depends on your own personal tolerance to hurt/annoyance.
What I find an annoyance might be the end of the world to someone else.
Well just because they didn't show all that stuff doesn't mean it's not in the game. You have to remember that the world is the biggest ever created in an MMO and you can literally go out solo in the middle of nowhere, fight stuff, and never be seen.
Sure it will be of benefit to have a group or guild to tag along with but there are also measures to ensure that gankfests won't be without consequence.
First, there is a penalty to killing people such as guards attacking you and not being able to go to certain areas. And when someone is flagged they can be attacked by anyone, just like in UO.
Second, there are no level/class/health meters in the game so you never know who's who and how strong they are so you have to be careful in who you attack.
I'm sure there will be PvP gank groups running around but there will also be anti-gank groups. The game is what you make of it but it's not going to be for everyone (broken record there).
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
So, again, my question. Is losing gear really going to hurt. Or is it going to be a mild annoyance at best?
It will hurt to various degrees depending on the individual. Solo players who have to earn everything themselves will hurt more. Members of clans who have lots of friends to help them make or buy or be given replacements will hurt less. Wealthy individuals will hurt less than poor individuals. But if you die a lot, it will hurt. It's something you will want to avoid and that is the purpose of a significant death penalty. It changes how you play the game and how you look at the gameworld.
In WoW for example, I didn't care if I died because I lost nothing, just a temporary loss of stats and minor repairs which meant nothing to me. I even killed myself at times just to port across a zone. Isn't that a joke? When you don't care about dying, you play recklessly and your entire outlook of the gameworld is different. When you don't have real consequences, you don't feel you are in a virtual world, just a theme park.
Hehe, 75K+ forum members (and growing) say otherwise.
It's ok though, there's always WoW or AoC for you to go play.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
So...summing up, this is what I get from the answers to my questions:
"It hurts depending on your personal preference. It's a loss, but it can be easily replaced."
Is that about right?
P.S.: No, this is not a flamebait or anything. Thanks to everyone who tried to explain this to me. Apparently I -am- slow, yes, because I still fail to see the excitement this adds to the whole, but at least I now know what I'm dealing with. (And before anyone complains, other factors are important in PvP, so this is just one factor that decides on the fun/intensity of PvP in DF. I had originally thought it would be a more grueling experience.)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
There is no spoon...
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Hehe, 75K+ forum members (and growing) say otherwise.
It's ok though, there's always WoW or AoC for you to go play.
So, I'm sure Vanguard, AoC, and many other prosepecting MMO's had 75K+ forum members doesn't mean they stay to play the game. Try Again.
Hehe, 75K+ forum members (and growing) say otherwise.
It's ok though, there's always WoW or AoC for you to go play.
So, I'm sure Vanguard, AoC, and many other prosepecting MMO's had 75K+ forum members doesn't mean they stay to play the game. Try Again.
Just curious, what do you care how well Darkfall does?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
There is no spoon...
Your jibe comes too late.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
It will hurt.
I will have to leave the battle and restock the gear i lost. The time this take depends on how far i have to the backup gear and on game mechanics. If i have to walk for 20 minutes it will hurt more then if i have the opportunity of using some "deathgate" that will respawn me close to a bank. The amount of "hurt" is to be seen when we enter the game.
But it will hurt to some extence, yes.
Have a nice one
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
There is no spoon...
Your jibe comes too late.
Aww, well I tried. Sorry we couldn't get together and all.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I don't think you will ever get an answer to this, it's purely subjective.
Is getting stung by a bee a hurt or annoyance?
Is getting your house burgled a hurt or annoyance?
Yes it will be unpleasent but your reaction to it will not be the same as anyone else's.
The answer to these questions are different for everyone.
The only way to know is for you to play it.
The way warriors wield the sword in front of their faces. That's... amazing.
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
The problem is you see everything in terms of items.
Items are a very small part of games like this, they are not be all and end all of the game like in themepark mmo's.
...Are people not reading what I am asking? I am asking about looting, so it's about Items, obviously. What else do you want to loot? My liver?
And I know the game is not all about that. That's what I am asking about though. Now again, hopefully for the last time. Will being looted in PvP hurt? Or will it just be an annoyance?
Maybe you're only thinking about items one is carrying? Full loot in DF goes further than that, for example a trader shipping all his goods to a vessel, hiring few mercs to protect it, but gets raided anyway by pirates. Should hurt. Or a clan town getting taken over by a competing clan. Still no hurt?
See, while some random guy losing his invaluable newbie gear might not seem like a huge 'hurt', there are different degrees to full loot.
Anyway, I'm almost certain there are some craftable items that you have to slay dangerous mobs, complete quests, pick an ingredient from the top of a hard to get to mountain, in order to make them. But they don't make you invincible, even if acquiring one might be a challenge.
I don't think you will ever get an answer to this, it's purely subjective.
Is getting stung by a bee a hurt or annoyance?
Is getting your house burgled a hurt or annoyance?
The answer to these questions are different for everyone.
The only way to know is for you to play it.
That is, in part, why I asked so many questions about it. I wanted to know what kind of loss players can expect in the game. Is the gear going to be hard to be replaced? If it is, is it actually worth something or does it give me an edge in battle? Or is it just a -little- bit more expensive and a -little- bit stronger? All these factors come into play (for me) when deciding if losing gear hurts or doesn't hurt and previous posts about this have been contradicting each other repeatedly, that's why I wanted someone to clarify if they could. Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts on this.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Vanguard did 2 out of the 3, seamless world and death penalty, its not doing good at all. How do you figure Darkfall will change that? Skill based is big difference, but only thing that sucks with skill base is its always exploitable. Boneknight room anyone?
While it makes good sense to have this, companies have gone away from it because you can exploit ways to get max skills very easily 99% of the time.
Two things.
First Vanguard had a horrible launch. It was incomplete and plagued with bugs and crashes and slow FPS rates and missing content. First impressions mean everything in the MMOG business. You screwup at launch and you can kiss a majority of gamers goodbye forever. If Darkfall does the same thing it will fail also of course, as any game would.
Second, SOE now controls Vanguard. Having SOE involved with a MMOG is the kiss of death to many gamers including myself. I will never play another SOE game because of how they have ruined previous games, lied to customers, and are now pursuing various forms of RMT in every one of their products.
As far as exploiting goes, I expect every developer to be proactive in stopping cheats and hacks and exploits regardless of wether it's a speed skill macro or a gold/item duping hack etc. whatever. I don't think skill based games are more prone to cheaters than class based games and you don't ruin a MMOG design by not choosing a skill based system or choosing to instance, for example, to stop cheating.
I don't think you will ever get an answer to this, it's purely subjective.
Is getting stung by a bee a hurt or annoyance?
Is getting your house burgled a hurt or annoyance?
The answer to these questions are different for everyone.
The only way to know is for you to play it.
That is, in part, why I asked so many questions about it. I wanted to know what kind of loss players can expect in the game. Is the gear going to be hard to be replaced? If it is, is it actually worth something or does it give me an edge in battle? Or is it just a -little- bit more expensive and a -little- bit stronger? All these factors come into play (for me) when deciding if losing gear hurts or doesn't hurt and previous posts about this have been contradicting each other repeatedly, that's why I wanted someone to clarify if they could. Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts on this.
Why don't you try beta for yourself and see.
Then maybe you can tell us if losing your gear hurt or was just an inconvenience.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky