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To those of you who think DF won't be a grind..........
You're sorely mistaken. If everyone here actually knows what it is like to play a sandbox, you should know that it ends up being a grind; same -should- go for DF.
Look at the boats, can you imagine the amount of time it would take to make them?:
Nails: Like any good ship, you will need sturdy nails. This involves going to a mine and mining all of the ore. Then you take it to a fire and smelt the ore. After this you find a blacksmith and tell him to make hundreds of nails for your boat.
Planks: First you will have to cut a lot of trees down to get the logs. After this, you go to a carpenter and tell him to make you hundreds of planks. Then, after waiting for him to do this, you then use the nail and plank with the boat.
Architecture: You will need to have a pretty high amount of skill to create the plans for a huge boat like the ones that were in the video.
Same thing goes with player made cities, the weapons, the armour, and even those weird floaty things that attacked that one village; it will take a lot of manpower to make these things.
Now, don't get me wrong, I like this. I am just saying that DF is going to be a huge grind which will make it challenging for casuals to play.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
Comments
Then thanks god for player freedom.
You can grind as much as you want to. Or not! Just choose how much you want to...sandbox you know!
What he said.
I guess it would depend on each person's interpretation of "grinding".
I never ever felt like I was grinding in UO or SWG but I did get that feeling in WoW, AoC, and some others.
Sandbox games give you the freedom to do as you please so if you don't like what you're doing, don't do it. I'll take sandbox over the others any day, those feel like grinding to me.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
What he said.
How exactly do you choose?
You're recruited in a guild. They are getting prepared for a huge battle, but you think you can choose whether or not you help them get prepared? You'll help patrrol the land (standing in the same spot over and over) or harvest material (grind) or mabye craft some nails (grind) or even kill some monsters for a rare material (more grind!).
You're in a guild; I'm sure you're preparing to build cities, boats, etc. To do so, you'll need the help of everyone in your guild...which means everyone will end up grinding.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
grind to me is endless boring non-risk pve.
In DF every "grind" session will be an adventure, just like it was in UO or AC/DT/SB etc, you will be fighting or at least there will be a good chance you run into someone who you eaither want dead or who wants you dead.
In this game there is always glorious victory or disastrous failure waiting for you just over the next hill.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
it wont be a grind level wise . and you wont have to grind to go with people that have been playing for a while . quit a bit diffrent form level
What he said.
You do know there is some players that loves grinding. Cutting wood each day and note the amount f time thay did it in. So they can do it faster next time.
Some players will make a big business out of it. They will become harvesters, and sell thier stuff to crafters.
I know you sit and think right now: "Why wont playiers rob those harvesters, instead of paying them?"
And thats a good question, it seems as the harvesters need to invest in guards and protection as well.
Ohh! As for an example: I wont grind a minute ot even craft a butterknife. I hate all that.
To the OP did you play Vanguard? Your statement sounds like the ship building in Vanguard. I can't comment on DF but I would imagine they wont make it so hard to build ship since they look like they can be destroyed. But like the others said I enjoyed making items if I knew they were being used to build a house or ship. If I didn't feel like I just went hunting instead. I am more concerned about the type of crafting in the game tbh.
A game becomes a grind because you play it too much.
crafting is nothing special you can craft everthing i belive that dwarf hammering was part of crafting tho
You weren't around for the Holo grind in SWG then were you? Officially was called a grind and hell it was a long one.
While you can choose to a point, you still can't avoid it. If you want to move anywhere in the game you will have to do it at one point.
So yes what mike states is exactly true. You can slow the grind down by doing other stuff or speed it up by going head on, that is the choices you have and only thus.
What he said.
How exactly do you choose?
You're recruited in a guild. They are getting prepared for a huge battle, but you think you can choose whether or not you help them get prepared? You'll help patrrol the land (standing in the same spot over and over) or harvest material (grind) or mabye craft some nails (grind) or even kill some monsters for a rare material (more grind!).
You're in a guild; I'm sure you're preparing to build cities, boats, etc. To do so, you'll need the help of everyone in your guild...which means everyone will end up grinding.
Well when I played wow I spent months at a time without leaving org and still had fun trading, If can do that in a linear game this is gonna be heaven for me.
If other people want to grind then good for them but I most certainly will not be.
You weren't around for the Holo grind in SWG then were you? Officially was called a grind and hell it was a long one.
While you can choose to a point, you still can't avoid it. If you want to move anywhere in the game you will have to do it at one point.
So yes what mike states is exactly true. You can slow the grind down by doing other stuff or speed it up by going head on, that is the choices you have and only thus.
I did plenty of things in SWG that others would consider grinding but I considered playing. Content and immersion does wonders for games.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
ok lets say you are out cutting wood.
And you meet another woodcutter.
You both will think: ok if i kill that guy and loot his wood, this will save me 1 hours work.
This makes "grinding" alot more exciting hahah
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
Good point.
I'd rather do mining in UO for a month straight than have to play another day of AoC. Mining in UO is fun, harvesting in AoC is grinding.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Just because it's not level-wise doesn't mean it's not a grind.
.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
From the video we saw a player click an item and he started crafting...will that be the crafting in DF, who knows? But that's what it looked like.
I'm playing Wurm. I'm cutting down constant trees just to make planks for my house. Not to mention if the planks aren't of a high enough quality..well then I have to make more.
If DF has an ounce of realism it -will- be a grind.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
Definately! And then when the other player kills you (here comes the fun part) you have to grind MORE! Woohoo!
While there will be risk, this doesn't take away from the fact it will still be a grind.
And what if you don't run into another player? Then it will be no different than just grinding away; tree after tree after tree.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
Again, what makes you think this will be okay? Do you think your guild leader will just let you not help the guild because you "don't want to grind"? Of course not! You'll have to do it to help out your guild, if you refuse they'll probably end up killing you.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
In video games just as in life you are forced to do things repeatedly thousands of times often to get better at it, I think the difference is in how fun you can make it with so many options I can only se this as a good thing.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Grinding is subjective and who cares really. If you like the game, play it. If you don't, don't.
It's not rocket science.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
One of the features of a skill-based character advancement system is that you develop your character by using the skills you want your character to have. Level-based games all seem to boil down to the same process, regardless of what kind of character you're trying to build: killing the same creatures over and over again. Sometimes there's a quest, sometimes there isn't, but it's still killing the same creatures over and over again.
In Darkfall, you'll gain a skill by using it. If you want swordsmanship, fight with a sword. Fight a another player, fight a monster, fight whatever you want, just use a sword. If you want a magic skill, cast spells with it. If you want to be a fisherman, just go fishing a lot. You never have to do anything else, if you don't want to.
So, in order to "skill up" your character, sure, there will be some grinding involved - you'll have to use the skills you're training over and over again, in whatever context floats your boat. But even then - the difference between a new player and a veteran will be significantly smaller than it is in level-based games. Even a brand new character can be useful, if played skillfully.
In my opinion...it is only a grind if you make it a grind in this game. It is very subjective.
Now games like WoW, yes it is a grind because at some point it gets repetitive just to level up to experience endgame pvp and pve.
And you can view DF the same way, and im sure many will.
Me personally, I find that it isnt for combat anyways. If i want to be the best archer I can be. Maybe i dont care about being overall rounded and the best pvper, I just want to be known as that guy who if you need an archer, im the best cause its all i do and i do it well. (this isnt actually me, but just an example)
So instead of grinding away at quests and mobs etc to level up to get the skills for my predetermined class, i just pick up a bow and use it for everything. PVE groups, PVP encounters. Im having fun just using the bow and the more i use the bow, the better my skills in it increase. I don't see that as a grind, I see it as playing the game because it has been started that even a few brand new players can beat a skilled up veteran if they work together....none of this "my sword wont make contact with you because you are 100lvls higher than me nonsense as you stand there afk". So right off the bat my bow and arrow will have some kind of effect.
Now you can look at it the other way, but in my opinion that is just you convincing yourself its a grind and not just enjoying the game. But if you want, you can look at it as "I have to use this bow x number of times before i get to the 100 skill level and cap it, until then i consider myself just a noob and not ready for endgame"
We'll see how it is exactly implemented, but i have a feeling combat will be a lot less "grindy". Crafting maybe, but crafting is kind of hard to avoid.
edit: 2 people made the same point i am trying to make while i typed this, so yea...glad to see others agree
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Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
What he said.
Grind for mats yes.
But darkfall is all about freedom its not forced to do so.
But no lvls no xp grind, no gear/weapon grind.
Just training skills.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I like to do crafting / merchant type activites so I will be able to contribute anyway without grinding (in wow i had nearly 100k gold with no grinding at all, but nothing to spend it on). I think it depends how you choose to play mmo's if you do a lot of grinding especially in sandbox, the only thing I will probably have to grind is some healing skills so I can do pvp if i want to which won't the all the time.