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GRAPHICS ARE A MAJOR ISSUE
warrior41
Member Posts: 65
Over at the official forum, the grahics threads are numerous and heated. What do you all think of the graphics of STO, are they indeed too cartoony? And not up to the standards of leading MMOs like EVE online? Do they not surpass Star Trek Legacy?
Too Cartoony?
Comments
I do not think that they are too cartoony at all, but then again I am not one of those flash over substance folks. I want STO to be a good game first and foremost. We have seen time and time again that when developers spend all their time on graphics the gameplay suffers as a result. Look, game developers are not Pixar studios or some other cgi house. What matters is that the gameplay is entertaining, engaging and has depth.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
They're alpha images, can't really critique them. The second picture looks like the Atlantis base in Stargate, horrible modeling job.
Welcome to STO combic book space adventures! Did you guys honestly expect anything less from the Cryptic engine?
They are numerous and heated because the same handful of people (including YOU warrior41/SAMEET) create a new thread on THE SAME TOPIC every time the discussion doesn't go their way.
I support you stating your opinion, dude, but I do NOT support trolling/spamming like an ADHD kiddie to garner attention. You're doing more harm to your cause than good by being a nuisance.
I think the art is fine. I agree it's cartoony, but i don't mind that.
And ebonfire the art choice isn't due to the engine. Their engine would support many varities of art styles.
They are numerous and heated because the same handful of people (including YOU warrior41/SAMEET) create a new thread on THE SAME TOPIC every time the discussion doesn't go their way.
I support you stating your opinion, dude, but I do NOT support trolling/spamming like an ADHD kiddie to garner attention. You're doing more harm to your cause than good by being a nuisance.
I don't know, it appears you came here to spam me. there is one poster who agrees with me, and made a very funny comment about Star Trek comic book adventures.
We will see how the reaction is to this thread.
They are numerous and heated because the same handful of people (including YOU warrior41/SAMEET) create a new thread on THE SAME TOPIC every time the discussion doesn't go their way.
I support you stating your opinion, dude, but I do NOT support trolling/spamming like an ADHD kiddie to garner attention. You're doing more harm to your cause than good by being a nuisance.
I don't know, it appears you came here to spam me. there is one poster who agrees with me, and made a very funny comment about Star Trek comic book adventures.
We will see how the reaction is to this thread.
Dude, there are no less than NINE separate threads on the SAME TOPIC — three of which YOU authored (and your latest was just locked for trolling).
But no one here has to take my word for it. Go to the Star Trek Online forums (http://forums.startrekonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24) and look up the username SAMEET. Decide for yourselves.
I for one don't mind the graphics as they stand, they aint cartoony at all, you want cartoony check out WoW..
GAMEPLAY AND IMMERSION FIRST, GRAPHICS SECONDARY.. that's what companies should do instead of the opposite, Age of Conan is a prime example of Graphics before Gameplay.
STO looks sweet as it is, concentrate on making the gameplay Cryptic and ignore whiners who want better graphics.
Semi-Related = I still play on my 48k Spectrum from time to time as the games have the immersion that 96% of PC games are lacking.
I thought they looked very good as well...loved it. I know they will even improve from here for those of you who don't agree (or are just looking for something to pick on for some reason this early in development). This game has a LONG way to go yet. See you in 2010.
I don't think they are cartoony. Idon't think they look the way they do because they are looking for a style. They look the way they do because A. they are a working graphic and is intended to be improved before launch or B. This is the final but this game is way to allow as many machines to run it. Including very old ones kids are often given as second hand to use. Just widening the potential base
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
They're alpha images, can't really critique them. The second picture looks like the Atlantis base in Stargate, horrible modeling job.
The second picture looks like the Atlantis base in Stargate, horrible modeling job??? you gotta be kidding me, looks like the top of a starbase to me.
and please remember this little snippet of info, if i remember right the Wrath of Khan was the first sighting of this type of station, unsure of the date it was released but i'm pretty sure it was pre-Next Generation which ran from 1987-2004 and stargate Atlantis ran from 2004 - present day.. If anything Atlantis looks like This type of station not visa versa..
Hmm, yeah it looks too cartoon like for my taste. No big suprise there, Cryptic live for cartoons but a Star trek game should look a bit more... Star trek.
Bad modelling is cool if it looks 60s style like the original series but what I seen so far of this game don't have the right feel. Hope they polish it up.
Ok maybe people will think a little more if it's put this way..
WoW = Cartoony graphics - Done so more computers can run the game and therfore the company get more subs, the game lasts longer as it has a steady income.
STO = Graphics are basic but NOT cartoony - Again so more systems can run it and therfore bring in more subs, game lasts longer due to steady income..
Hope this way of thinking can at least make people think about the longevity of the game rather than it's looks. Gameplay is all that matters to the type of people wanting to play this, if people want mega graphics and no gameplay/longevity go try out Age of Conan please. Don't get me wrong this isn't a flame against current or future people saying that the graphics are too cartoony, it's just the best way i can get the point across as to why the graphics don't look "super hot" for "super systems".
I said when cryptic did there webcast that the graphics looked comic book like and for my views on the graphical content I was slammed as a troll.
To me the graphics will not fit the future presentation of the license, J. J. Abrams is currently in the process of making the new Star trek movie with an all star cast and a much more gritty feel to the original concept of the IP. The release date for the movie may not coincide with the release of STO but it's a sure bet the eyes of the world will be on this film (slated for the 8th of may 2009) and will set the benchmark for future publications based on the IP, be it novels, merchandise and games will all be based on the re-imagining...but not STO .
I feel if cryptic keep with the current graphical portrayal of the universe it would alienate STO considerably from the direction that paramount are trying to take the IP.
Why would the graphics "Alienate" STO from the rest of Star Trek? Graphics don't set the standard or say whether something will or won't be part of the genre. The GAMEPLAY is what gives it the Star Trek theme not the Graphics..
If people buy STO or any other game for that matter, just for the graphics then they in for a poor life with MMORPG's.. Gameplay and Content are what draw people in, help them to have fun and generally keep them playing. Companies make games to make money, simple fact...
Now i personally hate World of Warcraft but i have to admit it's popularity and longevity seems to be better than any other MMORPG out. Why is this i wonder?
Could it be the outstanding graphics? Nope, graphics are carttony and simple even on max settings, even for me.
Could it be the well known company? don't think so, i'm probably wrong but isn't WoW Blizzards first MMO?
It's because the game can run on almost any system, not just super computers, people enjoy the gameplay and theme of it.. simply put it's Content and Gameplay that people stay for.. Wow has been going for years and is still popular, CoX has been going years and is still popular, graphics aint brill yet people still play and new players still join.. SWG had it all pre-NGE, NGE comes and completely changes GAMEPLAY, what happens.. game loses around 80%+ of it's players.
GAMEPLAY not graphics are what matter......
If cryptic cave in and submit to the "i want better graphics" style of people then the game will likely go the same way as Age of Conan, downhill within 4 months of launch.. it'll also join the ranks of SWG which had a huge population till the gameplay got changed.. LEARN FROM THIS FACT ALONE IF NOTHING ELSE.. Graphics remained good, GAMEPLAY got changed, GAME DIED.....
I disagree with the name of the thread, graphics might be an issues for some but certainly not foar all. While it might not be my prefered level of detail I think graphics shown is at least digestable.
Oh and yes, gameplay and immersion first - graphic second. Well said and I fully agree.
They're alpha images, can't really critique them. The second picture looks like the Atlantis base in Stargate, horrible modeling job.
The second picture looks like the Atlantis base in Stargate, horrible modeling job??? you gotta be kidding me, looks like the top of a starbase to me.
and please remember this little snippet of info, if i remember right the Wrath of Khan was the first sighting of this type of station, unsure of the date it was released but i'm pretty sure it was pre-Next Generation which ran from 1987-2004 and stargate Atlantis ran from 2004 - present day.. If anything Atlantis looks like This type of station not visa versa..
http://www.scifidesktop.org.uk/gallery/albums/sci-fi/worldwide/Stargate-Atlantis/Stargate-Atlantis_016.jpg
Now, tell me the top of that outpost doesn't look like Atlantis.
http://services.tos.net/pics/st2/st2-regula.gif
This is a Starfleet outpost station from Wrath.
I disagree with the name of the thread, graphics might be an issues for some but certainly not foar all. While it might not be my prefered level of detail I think graphics shown is at least digestable.
Oh and yes, gameplay and immersion first - graphic second. Well said and I fully agree.
I don't understand why people are willing to settle like this. Game play first- graphics second. I want both.
This mentality will cause companies "not" to see a need to create a game with both. I am talking about games that not only looks great, but play and run smoothly. (reduced lag) This type of game would account for a lot of prep work and cost.
If 5-10 million people play a MMO game, they could generate a lot of revenue each month. With those numbers we should demand more from them. If we settle for second rate graphics...companies will see this as an opportunity to reduce cost. Until enough players scream- the status-quo will remain.
I disagree with the name of the thread, graphics might be an issues for some but certainly not foar all. While it might not be my prefered level of detail I think graphics shown is at least digestable.
Oh and yes, gameplay and immersion first - graphic second. Well said and I fully agree.
I don't understand why people are willing to settle like this. Game play first- graphics second. I want both.
This mentality will cause companies "not" to see a need to create a game with both. Talking about games that not only looks great, but play and run smoothly. (reduced lag) This type of game would account for a lot of prep work and cost.
If 5-10 million people play a MMO game, they could generate a lot of revenue each month. With those numbers we should demand more from them. If we settle for second rate graphics...companies will see this as an opportunity to reduce cost. Until enough players scream- the status-quo will remain.
You want both and thats a fair enough statement, i think everyone would like to have both but look at the market these days.. games with lower graphic requirements have the immersion and gameplay where as the games with super or good graphics suffer. One of the reasons for this is cause not everyone has a super computer, this in turn means the company can concentrate on gameplay and provide decent graphics without going overboard, which will run on more systems, hence more income as they'll be more players paying sub fees. Also, over the past 5-7 years that i've played MMORPG's only SWG contained both Gameplay and good graphics Pre-NGE. Some might argue this truth, fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinions, the simple fact is that if Cryptic release the game with the graphics shown (both on website and from the webcast trailer) then they will recieve more subscriptions as many more systems will be able to run the game, again this will depend on the Content, Gameplay and Immersion in the end.. How many people pre-ordered Age of Conan and have left it now? i'd estimate about 50%+ of the population from the first week of it's launch.. this was because the game devs had centered their focus on making the graphics supreme yet the content etc was lacking, bugged or missing.. SWG had good graphics and required a decent system to run the game smoothly, the devs completely changed the gameplay with the NGE and over 75% of people left.. again, it's the gameplay that draws people not the graphics or SWG would still be strong today.. i hate doing this as i hate WoW but again i have to mention the simple fact that it's GAMEPLAY draws people in yet the graphics are rubbish and cartoony.
They're alpha images, can't really critique them. The second picture looks like the Atlantis base in Stargate, horrible modeling job.
The second picture looks like the Atlantis base in Stargate, horrible modeling job??? you gotta be kidding me, looks like the top of a starbase to me.
and please remember this little snippet of info, if i remember right the Wrath of Khan was the first sighting of this type of station, unsure of the date it was released but i'm pretty sure it was pre-Next Generation which ran from 1987-2004 and stargate Atlantis ran from 2004 - present day.. If anything Atlantis looks like This type of station not visa versa..
http://www.scifidesktop.org.uk/gallery/albums/sci-fi/worldwide/Stargate-Atlantis/Stargate-Atlantis_016.jpg
Now, tell me the top of that outpost doesn't look like Atlantis.
http://services.tos.net/pics/st2/st2-regula.gif
This is a Starfleet outpost station from Wrath.
You do make a valid point, i have to continue to disagree though as if you look for images of space stations from the next generation you'll find that what the devs have done is correct to the Star Trek theme.
http://starwrecked.faketrix.com/Star-Trek-screensavers-preview-3.htm
Notice the space station (at time of posting is 3rd from left on top row, between Defiant and Enterprise A)
Antaran: I hope you don’t mind I broke up your text: Easier to read.
"I think everyone would like to have both but look at the market these days. games with lower graphic requirements have the immersion and gameplay where as the games with super or good graphics suffer. One of the reasons for this is cause not everyone has a super computer, this in turn means the company can concentrate on gameplay and provide decent graphics without going overboard, which will run on more systems, hence more income as they'll be more players paying sub fees."
I played guild wars on a P3 800 with 1 gig of ram. I am still amazed I was able to do so. Is that a good thing? Not really- I would have upgraded my system if needed. That system at the time was below the market norm. So the graphics for Guild Wars could have been better then they were.
I believe the avg computer today can deal with much better graphics then the MMOs being created. IMHO.
"Also, over the past 5-7 years that i've played MMORPG's only SWG contained both Gameplay and good graphics Pre-NGE. Some might argue this truth, fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinions, the simple fact is that if Cryptic release the game with the graphics shown (both on website and from the webcast trailer) then they will recieve more subscriptions as many more systems will be able to run the game, again this will depend on the Content, Gameplay and Immersion in the end."
If one company steps up and create a game that I am referring to.....Current MMO games may find their members bailing. It only takes one company to change the market. Then it will become the norm for the industry. I am hoping for an industry change. Not just one game.
. How many people pre-ordered Age of Conan and have left it now? i'd estimate about 50%+ of the population from the first week of it's launch.. this was because the game devs had centered their focus on making the graphics supreme yet the content etc was lacking, bugged or missing.
Conan: Broken promises in any industry will turn off consumers. A Company can't piss on the consumer’s leg and tell them that it is raining. Conan falls short.
SWG had good graphics and required a decent system to run the game smoothly, the devs completely changed the gameplay with the NGE and over 75% of people left.. again, it's the gameplay that draws people not the graphics or SWG would still be strong today.
This example really supports my claim. You said SWG had “good graphics”. Didn't they have a good consumer base playing the game? From what I heard they had both good graphics and good game play- till changes occurred.
i hate doing this as i hate WoW but again i have to mention the simple fact that it's GAMEPLAY draws people in yet the graphics are rubbish and cartoony.
What would happen if the graphics were great? Would they say na...I don't need great graphics?
MMOs take a long time to create and cost a lot up front. Sounds like Hollywood. In a way they act like Hollywood and don’t take chances. How many WOW games are out there? It only takes one company to change the industry.
PS: I will play Star Trek unless the game play sucks (the graphics will be so so).....Or until that one company comes along.
I hear what your saying m8 and understand fully, i'm just trying to convey what i see in MMO's today as an example of how companies prioritise their teams working on a game..
Yes SWG had both good graphics and good gameplay untill November 2005 when the NGE (new game enhancements) went live, i brought this game up as an example to show that good graphics alone isn't enough to keep even the most loyal of players once the gameplay is removed.
I agree with you though, it would be good to see a game contain both graphics and gameplay but unfortunately it just isn't on the cards, a companies budget or designers limits what they produce, so they tend to focus more on one or the either instead of both.. another example would be Champions online, everyopne thinks it's going to be the CoX beater or CoX2, it's a shame the graphics are lacking in the video they have on website, that game looks seriously cartoony, only the gameplay will save it otherwise the people will who are interested will end up going back to or joining CoX.
At the end of the day companies don't design both good graphics and gameplay anymore, as much i would like to see another game released like SWG was pre NGE it just isn't gonna happen. STO on the other hand may be different, it's graphics don't look too bad and from what was said in the webcast interview where they released the first trailor, the gameplay could be awesome (as long as they stick to their guns and don't cave in to the children who want a WoW/LotRo simplistic style).
Antaran: Heh we really agree mostly. Your talking about what is going on today and I am talking about what could/should be.
The budget is what the forecast bottom line says it could be. AND what "others" in the industry are doing. Companies mostly set priorities details after the budget is set. Why create more expense if you can get away with less. Time constraints "Potential revenue loss" also effect the design process.
I am cheering for that one fish to cause the school to change direction. Change the budget "industry standard" (means great game play and great graphics a must). Companies that can't do both will go up belly up.
(or end up swimming with the B crowd)
Clearing throat I have a dream..........
PS: I don't think STO graphics look crappy. Cartoony yeah. Does Star Trek graphics feel right with the cartoony look? That would be another topic for me.
Aye, well maybe one day we'll get what we dream about m8, as i too hope that companies will design games that have decent graphics as well as outstanding gameplay.
like i say though that time is a long way away, by the time the Athlon 64 X2 20000+ comes out we'll be able to play what we would like and dream of today, but by that time they'll be people wanting more (as always).
Companies first and foremost make games to make them money, which in todays financial situation means lower end graphics or average graphics so the games will be able to run on more systems, more systems able to play means more sub fees and more income/profit.
I have to use Age of Conan as an example of my next statement.. AoC was slated as having excellent graphics which it does, no denying, only trouble is the game won't work on a lot of systems even top spec machines are having problems. I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ CPU with 2gb ram, running windows XP and a cheap 8600GT (by cheap i mean chipset for it). This system of mine was outperforming quad 3ghz with 4gb ram and 8800GTX sli etc on AoC. the gameplay of AoC is the same as ever with just the combat system tweaked and yet another theme. if AoC had the content that the devs announced it would have prior to BETA then i think the game would have been the best on the market and it would have contained everything anyone wants in an MMO.. it was a nice try but they ditched the gameplay to please the simplistic audience during BETA and it got released with little to no gameplay longevity at all..
with STO all i can say is that if the gameplay is how i percieve it to be (from the interview and questions on the webcast) then it will most certainly have the gameplay to it, graphics may get altered by the time the game is due for release, only time will tell, if not then current graphics are good enough for me if the aformentioned gameplay is included. It may be set in the Star Trek universe but it's being designed to appeal to all types (from my understanding) and therefore Star Trek is just the theme, they are going through all the books, episodes and movies for historical reference so they don't crash the genre, but in actual essence they pretty much have free roam with it being set (i think) about 30 years after the Nemesis film.
These graphics look kick butt. I cant wait to play.