Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
An observation regarding the classes in WAR
JizzyMcNasty
Member Posts: 6
First off, I know that there have been ENDLESS threads comparing WoW and WAR, along with threads debating whether or not WAR is a WoW killer or not. Personally, I couldn't care less about any of that. From what I have seen insofar, WAR appears to be nothing more than WoW with a prettier PvP system. But that is not what I wanted to say, so I'm going to refrain from expanding on that point for the moment.
What I really wanted to bring up is the class system in WAR. Along with being an ex-WoW player of 2 years, I was REALLY excited for WAR up until this morning. I have done extensive research on the game, I played all through Preview Weekend, and, until this morning, was playing in Preview Weekend Plus.
It seems to me that even though WAR claims a respectable 20 character classes available, after playing for a while it is quite evident that there are really only 5 character classes in the game. The healers, tanks, melee DPS, ranged DPS, and ranged DPS pet classes all function nearly the exact same way across all the races' boards, with the exception of maybe the Engineer in the Dwarf faction mixes things up a bit. There are slight variations to the class builds (I know that Mythic has each classes' mechanic) but other than that they all pretty much play the same way. No significant real difference between the dwarf Ironbreaker, Chaos chosen, Greenskin black ork, or high elf Sword-dancer. No significant real difference between the Squig Herder and the White Lion. No significant real difference between the Sorceress and Bright Mage. Etc. Maybe things get different past level 15 or so (please let me know if this is the case), but insofar I have been sorely disappointed when I go from playing my Witchhunter to playing a Marauder and find that they function, play, and skill up in nearly the exact same way, with minute differences. Not meaning to get back on comparing WoW and WAR (as I personally can't stand WoW anymore) but each of WoW's (9?) classes are each completely individual in respect to mechanics and game play.
I'm not trying to trash WAR here, so please don't take it that way. I really want to like the game, but I find it difficult when I see that not only has so much of their content been recycled from WoW, but then the other content that they made themselves has all been recycled inside itself. Think of this thread as more of a question, if you will. I played 7 classes in WAR up to lvl 15 through the 2 Preview Weekends, and had a hard time discerning any real differences in the gameplay between comparable classes. Has anyone else noticed this pattern, or does it change significantly in the later levels?
Comments
I didnt really think of it yet, but its just like every other MMO (cept Pre-CU SWG and UO).
Even though there is two sides, their classes basically mirror each other in terms of abilities, just like WoW.
Sure the mechanics and concept mirror, but not the play style in any way, form, or fashion.
Especially at level 40. The classes differentiate themselves more at higher levels, when you have more than a handfull of abilities.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I have to admit, replayabilty may suffer due to the mirroring of each career.
I'm not sure if I played a magus for example, that I would be inclined to roll an engineer as an alt on a different server.
Same goes for archmage, when I roll one after launch, the mechanic is pretty much the same as shaman.
Ironbreaker and chosen are unique though since their mirrors were cut from launch.
Not sure what to tell you except that you are reading too much into the terms.
I would call, say for example, an ironbreaker a "class".
I would call "tank" an archehtype.
Much like say CoH all Blasters can blast, but a Fire blaster has more AoE and an Ice blaster has more in the way of CC.
Are they the same? Yes and no. You really cannot claim that a Swordmaster and an Ironbreaker are the same. But they are meant to share many abilities.
In fact i rather like that in WAR the classes that share a similar "Archetype" have some set of core abilities they all share.
IN the end the sem-fake differentiation that WoW tries to pull off between classes that can all tank is rather annoying and cumbersome. The Druid tank vs. Warrior tank stuff was just a pain. It makes much more sense for all Tanks to say be able to knock something down for 4 seconds.
They still have a number of other things to distinguish themselves.
Frankly I do not really understand what you were expecting. EQ1-lineage games all only have a few "roles". The classes are different even the mirror classes are fairly different.
Even if every class was supposedly as unique as WoW likes to pretend their stuff (by making skills with different icons and different names that do the same thing as skills from another class). Anything that was a tank would still do whatever that role was.
Maybe we just disagree. But I see significant differences when you consider the various tactics buidls combined with the class mechanics between the tanks. The do share like 50% of skills in the "core" but ithink that is perfectly fine.
BTW don't call them sword-dancers. The wood elves have a unit called the Wardancer, who is basically a crazy wood elf with a huge sword that is impossible to hit. People will get confused and you might bring out the wood elf crazies agitating for a new faction again.
Witch Hunter and Marauder are about as close to the same as Rogue and Warrior were in WoW which is to say not really that close.
As others have said as you get more abilities things diversify more, even between exact mirrors.
Not to mention that every class has 3 mastery paths that can greatly differentiate the style of play, so yes you can play a dps tank (though youll never be as good as a straight dps), sure you can put all your mastery points into healing specific path as a healer but you will still be effective in combat.
You say boring but i hear "Every class is meant for killing other players" in that aspect yes i can see how they may look similar, but the way they do it is all different. What they bring to the table is unique to that class.
Ohhhhhhhhhh they stole them from Conan. I thought they stole them from Guild Wars, unless Conan stole the idea from Guild Wars. Oh no hold on I thought Warrior priests were a rip off of WoW paladins.
So I guess that means all the classes in AoC must be cheap WoW ripoffs too. Really WAR classes were ripped off from AoC who just ripped off WoW.
See everyone? WAR is not a WoW clone. Its an AOC clone. Its only a clone of a WoW clone.
lol
that is all
------------------------------
Meow
Think of it this way.....You have your basic character classes....Melee dps,ranged dps,healer,tank blah blah blah.....These are all represented in every MMORPG game currently available...
Now in order to transcend these base classes,a new type/order would have to be generated...AND THE PERSON/COMPANY THAT COMES UP WITH THIS NEW CONCEPT would be genius..
I tend to think of it like looking for the NEW SOUND in terms of music...In the early eighties you had tom petty,the cars basic soft rock...mid to late eighties,metal etc...early nineties was alt rock...mid nineties rap rock... so on so on
If you could hit the nail on the head as to what will be the next popular concept in these types of media,the world would be yours.......
At its core AoC was boring, lackluster, and unfinished. LotRO was at least complete in content.
WAR is already complete that is working out bugs and will continue like any game that focuses on PvP to try and balance classes. Anyone that thinks the game will release perfect isnt thinking clearly, the game will never be perfect. People will always complain about how overpowered another class is or how nerfed their class is.
The game looks good, hopefully they will allow a couple more steps up in graphics before launch, but not necessary.
Classes look nice and all have their differences even if "mirrored". Hopefully they offer more skins for the armor so youll be able to more fully tell classes per race apart.
Yeah they said in an interview they just didn't want each class to be a mirror of the opposite factions, every character type will play different. You can customize lets say a Shaman that will play differently compared to somone elses Shaman. Atleast thats what I got out of the interview.
I guess I'm confused how you think say White Lion plays at all like a Witch Hunter other than just both being melee classes. Warrior Priest doesn't play anything at all like Archmage. Squig Hunter and Shadow Warrior are completely different and neither play anything at all like Sorcerer.
Yeah they are grouped by archetype but that doesn't mean they feel and play the same. If you play all of the ranged DPS archetypes and come out saying they are all just the same I'm not sure what I can say.
Yeah, my shaman played pretty much like my rune priest except for the need to do damage once in a while. The spells were pretty much identical too.
I think Mythic did this to make balancing the classes easier. If the classes are essentually the same, shaman=runepriest=war priest, iron breaker = black orc and so on, it's already balanced.
Imho, they are not mirrors (like WoW) but they are similar. I like the word counterparts.
I think they did it for making the realm balancing easier... which is a wise path to follow, if you lived all the DAoC whining.
Anyway, the counterparts play very similar and they have similar abilities (specially at lower levels). But they aren't identical in many aspects. People that, for example, tried WE and WH will be able to tell you that. They are very similar but they not exactly mirrors. To the point that there are some people that like to play one but dont like the other (and not just because WE are only females! hehe).
How much do they change (if it's significantly)? I cant say because I didnt play tier 4. At tier 3, they are much more different than in tier 1. But how much is significantly for each of us? Totally subjective. So you will have to discover that.
The meele dps for example... one side has a one with a pet... the other doesnt but has a range dps with a pet.
Marauders, another example, has a very interesting gameplay mechanism.
Even the tanks have differences in the first levels that show how they are hardly mirrors. Yes, they all have some CC toys but they have their own abilities and game mechanism, like auras. Just try the 4 tanks and you will discover what I mean.
I tried most classes in tier 1 and 2 and some up to tier 3.
Anyway, imho, they are counterparts... but hardly they are mirrors.
I guess he got defensive because of how absurd the comment is. AOC class archetype design was mediocre at best.
Conq vs Guard vs DT wasn't too bad but Assassin and Barbarian played a lot alike as did ToS and PoM. There was no more class variety in AOC than in WAR that is for sure.
I know, I saw it too. I agree with your original comment though, but hope WAR will stay above the LotRO level. As I said long ago the classes are basically mirrors of each other, and the little quirks are nice.
Pro-tip: People freak out when you link WAR and AOC.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Ok, for starters mate, WoW took things from every MMO and combined it into 1 with a nice polished off feel. To say that WAR is copying WoW is just ignorant, and quite frankly if you're going to be so blind as to claim this then you might aswell say that the egyptians stole the pyramids from the mayans.
WAR is alot different from WoW and it's more like DAOC, which... by suprise (durrrrrrrr) was made by Mythic.
*golf clap*
magus is the engineers mirror, and no they dont play all that similar just they both have a turrent and ranged and ae attacks, white lion and squig hardly play the same when white lion is a pure meelee and squigs shoot like shadow warriors! ironbreaker with 100 grudge hits as hard as a meelee dps just with fewer attack options but still no other tank compares in the pain dealing with a 2 handed when masteried for it. all 3 healers for each side vary greatly, and from their mirrors with masteries ect setting them far apart. maybe you played all the chars to level 5 before you judged i dunno, but its obvious you didnt even scratch their surfaces in what makes them special, like the marauder, order doesnt have anyone who mutates their body at will to unlock entire sets of moves on the fly
As has been pointed out, the 20 classes really boil down to 10 due to the mirroring across factions. Yes, there are differences -- Bright Wizards and Sorcerers will be able to kill each other at different levels because they mature a little differently, but both classes share the backlash mechanic just like Engineers and Magi both share stationary pets.
That having been said, the 10 classes on the same side tend to be quite different from each other, and a few are a big departure from the WoW mold. Both tanks on the same side will feel somewhat the same because a tank plays a very specific role and there's not much room to fiddle with it. They hold aggro while absorbing lots of damage. If they didn't, they couldn't serve as tanks. But how does the Disciple of Khaine compare to a WoW Priest? It really doesn't. Sure, they're both healers, but the DoK is only able to heal if he's melee fighting. WoW has NOTHING like that. And the DoK is itself quite different from the Zealot or Shaman. All three are healers, but that's where the similarity ends.
In the final analysis, WAR has some classes that are a lot like WoW, and some that are very different. At first blush, the Squig Herder feels like WoW's Hunter. Both have pets and bows. But the Squig Herder is also more like the Warlock due to the fact that they have multiple pets to fill different roles where the Hunter is more or less stuck with one pet.
Another point is that WAR matures differently from WoW. You start with fewer abilities as a rule. But you get something new at almost every level (rather than just even levels). And by new, I mean truly new. All skills and abilities scale with your level, so you never have to buy upgrades. This really makes the levels feel a lot more meaningful, and keeps the game feeling like more and more is opening up to you. But it also means that what you experience at levels 1-5 is only a hint of what you'll be like at 20, much less 40.
In the end, though, I wouldn't get too hung up on classes. Classes aren't going to make or break WAR. Vanguard has more distinctly different classes, and look how "successful" it proved to be. What will make the difference is the actual gameplay. WAR makes all the variations on its gameplay available from the very start. You don't have to wait for the end game before you really start playing. And the PvP in WAR is a lot more meaningful right out of the gate than WoW has ever managed to pull off after 5 years. It's not the classes that are important; it's what you actually get to do.
Err with all due respect, but no. Its not like that in every MMO. Vanguard for instance has all very different healer classes. Blood Mage and Disciple play totally different. Same for DPS and others. I dunno about WAR since EU beta has not yet started, but no, it is NOT the case in every MMO that all class types are alike in other MMOs, nor should they.
Ohhhhhhhhhh they stole them from Conan. I thought they stole them from Guild Wars, unless Conan stole the idea from Guild Wars. Oh no hold on I thought Warrior priests were a rip off of WoW paladins.
So I guess that means all the classes in AoC must be cheap WoW ripoffs too. Really WAR classes were ripped off from AoC who just ripped off WoW.
See everyone? WAR is not a WoW clone. Its an AOC clone. Its only a clone of a WoW clone.
Holy defensive batman. I make a simple comment that the idea is taken from AoC only not as well done and mr defensive goes balistic on me.
Funny thing is, it was said long long long long ago that healers were going to heal and be able to do DPS. Saying that they stole that from borken ass AoC is nothing but a horrible comparison.