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An Apology on behalf of the Darkfall Community
arcturussage
Member Posts: 13
Hello,
In a recent hypemeter comments and forum posts you expressed your concern about the darkfall community.
I just want to let you know that there are those of us that who are not fanbois foaming at the mouth. We want to make the game a good community and want people to be able to play without getting ganked every 30 seconds by 12 year olds that think its the greatest thing in the world. Yes, all games have their rotten apples and the darkfall community seems to have a lot of bad apples, but please don't disregard the game, or the rest of the community because of the poor ones.
Many people have been following this game for over 3 or 4 years, many of those years left them... us, with little information and little hope. Many found ways to pass the time, some are certainly more bitter than others. We aren't proud of this fact, but its what we had to do to pass the time. It certainly isn't an excuse, but hopefully it helps explain a few things.
Again, not all of the community is bad. I, personally, hope that a lot of the community will change once the game is released and get their initial excitement and anger out of the way.
Darkfall is unique. You only have your one character per server, you can't be an ass and then jump on another character. Your actions have consequences, if your are a jerk, news will spread and it will work against you. People that are known as being helpful upstanding players will be rewarded. Hopefully this will help douse the flames of some of the more severe members of the community. Only time will tell.
All I ask is that you give Darkfall a chance. I truly believe that there is a little something for everyone. PvPers and "Carebears" alike can find something that appeals to them if they just give it a chance.
On behalf of the civil members of the community I want you to apologize for the others. All I can offer is the hope that they will cool off once the game release and that if not, hopefully they will be the minority.
Comments
Thanks for the sentiment Arcturussage,
It's kind of ironic however that the people who will read your post and take it in the spirit you intend knew this was the case already.
Nearly all online communities seem to have a collection on these immature posters lately.
In MMOs, and in particular MMOs in development, it is a major concern.
They claim to be "hardcore PvPers" yet most of them have never played WWII Online or Plantside and if they did most of them simply wouldn't last.
A number of your more mature members have said that they "simply ignore" these people?
My suggestion to your community is that you do not simply ignore them any more.
Instead, make it clear to them that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable within your community. You will need to get your Developer, Admins and Moderators on board for this.
Posters only tend to stay part of a community when they are 'comfortable' there. By maintaining a high standard you will make the immature posters either change or leave.
The pay off will be a community you can be proud of.
The pay off from that will be a Beta Testing phase where the game is looked at critically for the purpose of making it better.
Ultimately (if the developer listens to the community) this will result in a better game.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
/Applause
to both of you
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
Hi Arc, my near evil twin
There's no need to worry, for this will be a niche game so you wont see those kiddies and bad manners playing this game if its launch. Right now because there's nothing for them to do that's why they will go to any forums and spam.
By the time DF is release, WoW and War have already caught their attention (sad to say though).
If the game is really release with most of the gameplay in, i'll pm you so that we can be partner or even be in the same guild... cya!
RIP Orc Choppa
Arcturussage does not speak for the forumfall community.
We need no apologizing, as we did nothing wrong.
If you are one of the people who were some how offended by the fact that we are "hyped" about Darkfall, then you would probably get slaughtered in game and cry on the forums about how you need safezones and epic loot.
We will take your Hype meter advertising for our game, but we do not need your support MMORPG.com
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin
He doesn't - yet you do?
My suggestion to you is that you email the editor of MMORPG.com and have the Darkfall forums removed and Darkfall removed from the game list? The link you need is in the FAQ.
Then again, I'm betting the Developer would be very annoyed if that happened?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
The fun thing about you? Once all your little kitty friends become tire of swinging teh hammer leik in teh video they will quit. If the game is any good at that point, there will be an influx of new players. The second gen players will be more the "other" mmo crowd, and if your game wants to continue making money, they wil soften sort of liek L2.
You have always had PvP options, almost every game has a PvP server. I just can't wait to see youback here complaining both 1) How you got ganked or 2) How you got nerfed or 3) How the game is all care-bear in 6 months after release or 4) How no one plays anymore.
I played WH beta, it's not even salvageable (WoW, graphics and all). This game doesn't stand a chance. Just an opinion.
The fun thing about you? Once all your little kitty friends become tire of swinging teh hammer leik in teh video they will quit. If the game is any good at that point, there will be an influx of new players. The second gen players will be more the "other" mmo crowd, and if your game wants to continue making money, they wil soften sort of liek L2.
You have always had PvP options, almost every game has a PvP server. I just can't wait to see youback here complaining both 1) How you got ganked or 2) How you got nerfed or 3) How the game is all care-bear in 6 months after release or 4) How no one plays anymore.
I played WH beta, it's not even salvageable (WoW, graphics and all). This game doesn't stand a chance. Just an opinion.
Anyone who thinks that a "PvP server" is equivalent to open PvP has no idea what they are talking about.
UO and AC Darktide showed us the potential and flaws of open PvP. The Darkfall developers are disciples of those games, and have combined the good from those games, with their own style and innovative new features.
If you don't like it, tough. The game is coming out and we will all see then.
As for representing the Darkfall community, I would say that I represent "forumfall" pretty well. I'll be nice and civil if I see nice and civil. MMORPG.com has always been hostile to Darkfall, so I am hostile to MMORPG.com
As you can see, my join date for this site is '04, yet I only have a handful of posts. My SOLE reason for being on here is to defend Darkfall. I've done so for years, and with beta coming close, I won't let the naysayers get the better of us.
Apologizing is not the in the style of Darkfall. If I could, I could kill and loot you. Unfortunately, the forums don't have those features, so my posts will have to suffice.
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin
The fun thing about you? Once all your little kitty friends become tire of swinging teh hammer leik in teh video they will quit. If the game is any good at that point, there will be an influx of new players. The second gen players will be more the "other" mmo crowd, and if your game wants to continue making money, they wil soften sort of liek L2.
You have always had PvP options, almost every game has a PvP server. I just can't wait to see youback here complaining both 1) How you got ganked or 2) How you got nerfed or 3) How the game is all care-bear in 6 months after release or 4) How no one plays anymore.
I played WH beta, it's not even salvageable (WoW, graphics and all). This game doesn't stand a chance. Just an opinion.
Anyone who thinks that a "PvP server" is equivalent to open PvP has no idea what they are talking about.
UO and AC Darktide showed us the potential and flaws of open PvP. The Darkfall developers are disciples of those games, and have combined the good from those games, with their own style and innovative new features.
If you don't like it, tough. The game is coming out and we will all see then.
As for representing the Darkfall community, I would say that I represent "forumfall" pretty well. I'll be nice and civil if I see nice and civil. MMORPG.com has always been hostile to Darkfall, so I am hostile to MMORPG.com
As you can see, my join date for this site is '04, yet I only have a handful of posts. My SOLE reason for being on here is to defend Darkfall. I've done so for years, and with beta coming close, I won't let the naysayers get the better of us.
Apologizing is not the in the style of Darkfall. If I could, I could kill and loot you. Unfortunately, the forums don't have those features, so my posts will have to suffice.
I only hope that the main community is more like arct and not like you.
If not, DF wont survive.
Apologize for what?
Hyping the game we like?
Dehyping the games we dont like?
Thats the purpose of the hypemeter.
If someone made alts they did wrong. And this apply also to the haters that made alts to dehype Darkfall.
The hatred towards Darkfall latest year have come from some of the most immature individuals in the history of game websites. Wasnt one thread that werent ruined by the haters and no-sayers.
These Darkfall haters dont deserve any appologize from the Darkfall fans doing the right thing, hyping Darkfall and dehyping games they dont like.
The fun thing about you? Once all your little kitty friends become tire of swinging teh hammer leik in teh video they will quit. If the game is any good at that point, there will be an influx of new players. The second gen players will be more the "other" mmo crowd, and if your game wants to continue making money, they wil soften sort of liek L2.
You have always had PvP options, almost every game has a PvP server. I just can't wait to see youback here complaining both 1) How you got ganked or 2) How you got nerfed or 3) How the game is all care-bear in 6 months after release or 4) How no one plays anymore.
I played WH beta, it's not even salvageable (WoW, graphics and all). This game doesn't stand a chance. Just an opinion.
Anyone who thinks that a "PvP server" is equivalent to open PvP has no idea what they are talking about.
UO and AC Darktide showed us the potential and flaws of open PvP. The Darkfall developers are disciples of those games, and have combined the good from those games, with their own style and innovative new features.
If you don't like it, tough. The game is coming out and we will all see then.
As for representing the Darkfall community, I would say that I represent "forumfall" pretty well. I'll be nice and civil if I see nice and civil. MMORPG.com has always been hostile to Darkfall, so I am hostile to MMORPG.com
As you can see, my join date for this site is '04, yet I only have a handful of posts. My SOLE reason for being on here is to defend Darkfall. I've done so for years, and with beta coming close, I won't let the naysayers get the better of us.
Apologizing is not the in the style of Darkfall. If I could, I could kill and loot you. Unfortunately, the forums don't have those features, so my posts will have to suffice.
I only hope that the main community is more like arct and not like you.
If not, DF wont survive.
Ahhh, it wont survive you say?
Can you elaborate abit on that cause i dont understand abit what youre talking about?
Uzik is a good representant for Darkfall community as i see it.
Have a nice one
Apologize for what?
Hyping the game we like?
Dehyping the games we dont like?
Thats the purpose of the hypemeter.
If someone made alts they did wrong. And this apply also to the haters that made alts to dehype Darkfall.
The hatred towards Darkfall latest year have come from some of the most immature individuals in the history of game websites. Wasnt one thread that werent ruined by the haters and no-sayers.
These Darkfall haters dont deserve any appologize from the Darkfall fans hyping Darkfall and dehyping games they dont like.
And what about the people that is not a DF hater? Or do you think the human race is now divided only between DF lovers and DF haters.
I never thought the OP was apologizing to the DF trolls. I thought he was apologizing to all the people that are having a very "interesting" show of how some fanatic people can act.
All MMO have fanatics. Dont you remember how high AoC was rated after release in here? If you are trying to show that DF is not different than other MMOs (which are full of fanatic people) you achieved your objective. Well done!!! DF community is not different than all the WAR fanbois, WoW fanbois, AoC fanbois.
Well done!!!
Now try to tell people to come to a FFA PvP w/full looting, which is full of fanatics too.
Yes, I can elaborate.
FFA PvP is not for all. Less with full looting.
You and others arent informing people. Just hyping. And you will be success! Many people will buy DFO on the hype and find it NOT to be what they were looking for.
Then the whines and the cancels. And in the end it will happen what happened to every single FFA PvP MMO ever released: it will mutate to a more carebear environment or die.
Soon you will find playing with yourself and Uzik.
You dont like my opinion? You think I am wrong? That not only DF will be all that is promised, without bugs and with uberness all around... but you think it will have a player base that will economically support it and that Aventurine will hold their beleives to the end?
That's your opinion. Mine is what I said. And if the DF community is like you adn Uzik... then you will just ruin the game.
I know there are asshats in all MMOs. I just hope you are the minority.
FFA PvP is not for all. Less with full looting.
You and others arent informing people. Just hyping. And you will be success! Many people will buy DFO on the hype and find it NOT to be what they were looking for.
Then the whines and the cancels. And in the end it will happen what happened to every single FFA PvP MMO ever released: it will mutate to a more carebear environment or die.
Soon you will find playing with yourself and Uzik.
You dont like my opinion? You think I am wrong? That not only DF will be all that is promised, without bugs and with uberness all around... but you think it will have a player base that will economically support it and that Aventurine will hold their beleives to the end?
That's your opinion. Mine is what I said. And if the DF community is like you adn Uzik... then you will just ruin the game.
I know there are asshats in all MMOs. I just hope you are the minority.
*standing ovation for keeper2000* very well said
I accept your apology.
Being someone that is interested in Darkfall solely for it's similarities to UO, I find the community to be rather discouraging.
The only way to have a conversation about Darkfall with Darkfall zealots is to make a post that praises it...or, sometimes, completely bashes it. If you just want to discuss an element of the game, people will come in and just say "it's the best" or "you don't agree? you're a troll!"
Simply put, discussing Darkfall here is completely worthless. It's even worse than the WAR forums.
Your apology though, gives me a little hope for the community.
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
I agree with just about every point, so all I can add is, I apologize as well on their behalf. I don't think they realize they need people who aren't PvP maniacs just as badly as they need the game itself. The world has to be alive!
Darkfall Travelogues!
I can elaborate (this is a repost from another thread here - but in case you missed it...)
http://brokentoys.org/2007/07/23/see-you-in-ultima-online-no-shadowbane-uh-daoc-hey-swg-wait-horizons-vanguard-darkfall-yeah-totally-see-you-in-darkfall-newb/
Within the replies to that there is an (unusually) insightful post:
"isildur Says:
July 24, 2007 at 2:13 am
Note that I put ‘hardcore’ in ’scare quotes’ to indicate I was ’sneering’ at the term. Because the people who want fun competitive PvP are already playing fun competitive PvP, in GW and in WoW and in EVE. The people who want to gank are waiting for the Next Big Failure to come along, to let them grief noobs for a few months before it shrivels up and dies. This is because every sane developer has learned this lesson: griefing and ganking doesn’t just lose you the $15/mo from the person who was griefed. It has a multiplicative effect, creating an environment in your game, and a reputation outside your game, and people tend to steer clear. ‘Play to Crush’ as a selling point and marketing slogan probably lost SB twice the players it ended up bringing them.
...."
isildur, for those that don't know, works for Flying Lab Software as a designer on Pirates of the Burning Sea.
The people he is talking about don't care about your game, or any game for that matter.
They jump from game to game, often picking it up in the development stage. They establish themselves in the 'community' early on.
Their goal is to get the developer's ear and get into the (free) Beta - and dominate the Beta Forums. They know what they want - they are very vocal. But they don't care about the game, the developer, or other players.
These players typically become known as "fanbois" - but whereas a true "fanboi" is loyal to the game and the developer - these people are not - not really.
(In Age of Conan they had perhaps their most stunning success ever - when Funcom made some of these Fanbois into Forum Moderators! - the results were predictable.)
All they care about is their e-peen. They want a few cheap thrills. They don't care if their actions drive people away from the game or even if it ultimately kills the game.
In relation to Pirates of the Burning Sea these people were well entrenched in the "community" more than a year before the game was released. They dominated the forums.
There was tacit moderator and developer support for them.
After all, it's kind of flattering to have a bunch of people who do nothing but praise you all the time?
It's great to have a community full of people who will back up every Dev Blog and shout down anyone who even dares to question any aspect of the design?
Threads that attempted to raise valid concerns were "fanboi flamed" and then locked as a result.
And then the game went live...
Six months on and isildur's words have come back to haunt him.
And where are the "fanbois"?
Well, almost without exception, they bailed (The handful of true loyalists who do care about the game stayed)
The rest moved on to the Next Big Failure (Age of Conan). Most of them were gone within the first 3 months when the population started to fall - they ran out of people to gank - the "carebears" left and they had no-one to prey on but each other - but it seems they weren't hardcore enough for that?
Interestingly - I have seen a few of them posting on the WAR boards in the last couple of days.
Just to be clear, I am not saying these people are 100% responsible for killing games - the Developers are responsible for the game mechanics.
But what these people do seem to be able to do is steer Developers toward accepting bad and flawed game mechanics.
In PotBS they repeatedly shouted down people who raised valid concerns about game play elements.
The fact was they liked it the way it was.
The only problem was they liked it because it allowed them to 'dominate' at the expense of the game.
Once they had their thrills and their free play - they left.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Forumfall offers no apology. And neither do I. My brother wil be here soon to echo the same sentiment.
fan (f?n) pronunciation
n.
An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.
[Short for FANATIC.]
Ever seen any fans around here? Yes. Most are annoying. It's the internet.
To the OP: nice post.
Also to the OP: You are largely apologizing to a bunch of irrational haters for a bunch of irrational fans. People that don't really care about darkfall one way or the other aren't flaming/getting flamed. Some might get caught up in the discussion, and then they'll find that if they attack the game they get flamed by fans and if they defend it they get flamed by haters.
I'm a fan. I was a fan, at first, of AoC, mainly because I read most of the original short stories when I was younger (not the hack trash that AoC ended up using in its stupid fluff "asides", that showed me what kind of devs we were dealing with). But I didn't worry about coming to AoC's defense, I wanted to try it and see it. I tried and it failed. (EDIT)(I'll edit here to respond to those who think ganking killed the game - the lack of in-game mechanics and the ability to avoid ganking killed the game... along with everything else about the game, of course, it largely sucked... hunters got bored with easy hunts and the hunted (often including myself) found that they couldn't get anything done with tempest of sets hitting them with bolts from 30 feet away with 100 percent chance to hit and 100 percent damage).
I believe the devs when they say that DF is feature complete, and hope that it is implemented properly. If it is not I will cry in my pillow and take up fly fishing or something. Either way, the goal of the devs has remained pure and all the people talking about emoing it down to take care of carebear feelings don't understand that carebears are fickle and have tons of games to choose from but the hard-core pvp base is likely the only base that will come and stay. The dev's aren't stupid enough to sacrifice one to gain the other.
Again, it's all about whether the mechanics of the sandbox work out or can be made to work out.
Either way, I'll not apologize to the haters. Fuck 'em.
Yes, I can elaborate.
FFA PvP is not for all. Less with full looting.
You and others arent informing people. Just hyping. And you will be success! Many people will buy DFO on the hype and find it NOT to be what they were looking for.
Then the whines and the cancels. And in the end it will happen what happened to every single FFA PvP MMO ever released: it will mutate to a more carebear environment or die.
Soon you will find playing with yourself and Uzik.
You dont like my opinion? You think I am wrong? That not only DF will be all that is promised, without bugs and with uberness all around... but you think it will have a player base that will economically support it and that Aventurine will hold their beleives to the end?
That's your opinion. Mine is what I said. And if the DF community is like you adn Uzik... then you will just ruin the game.
I know there are asshats in all MMOs. I just hope you are the minority.
You should check out this little game called EvE with its 1/4 of a million subs...
I'm on your side, but in his defense EvE did have to back off of some of the harder core aspects of PvP by implementing the safe space. I'm actually glad they did, because the game's not made for a quick turnaround time after gankage.
But yeah, in the end, that's the entire point of EvE past the noob stuff.
There is no need to applogise, We happen to like the game of Darkfall, so we hype it. How do you think Warhammer got so much hype? Because more people know about it, and hyped it..
This is how the hypemeter is intended to work, and it works as intended.
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
Exactly, I hyped this game not just because of the thread encouraging members to hype it and become #1 on MMorpg.com, i hyped it because i am actually hyped for it? The OP is basically opologizing for hyping a game that your following/are intrested in? wtf? Oh and yeah ive played planetside, and planety of other "hardcore" games to date. Im not some guy who goes around being a jackass on every post i make, but i half to disagree with OP because by subjecting his own community into a moral low, basically betraying people who agree with hyping on mmorpg.com, he is also throwing crap in a lot of good peoples faces too. I for one just hyped DF here and helped it go up in score because I want to see it be a great game, if OP doesnt agree with that, he should not be a member of the darkfall community, Besides, its just the internet, its not like peoples lives are at stake, everybody makes a big deal over it when in reality, it really does not matter one way or another, let people hype if they want to, oh wait, it doesnt matter, they will anyway, making this thread irrelevent. /Thread
FFA PvP is not for all. Less with full looting.
You and others arent informing people. Just hyping. And you will be success! Many people will buy DFO on the hype and find it NOT to be what they were looking for.
Then the whines and the cancels. And in the end it will happen what happened to every single FFA PvP MMO ever released: it will mutate to a more carebear environment or die.
Soon you will find playing with yourself and Uzik.
You dont like my opinion? You think I am wrong? That not only DF will be all that is promised, without bugs and with uberness all around... but you think it will have a player base that will economically support it and that Aventurine will hold their beleives to the end?
That's your opinion. Mine is what I said. And if the DF community is like you adn Uzik... then you will just ruin the game.
I know there are asshats in all MMOs. I just hope you are the minority.
And that is your opinion, I quite honestly do not agree at all and when I talk to people that play WoW and games like that almost everyone wants something deeper more meaningful and that is what Darkfall offers. You base your opinion on a mass of failed mmos but not a single one of them failed because of the open pvp or full loot. They all failed because of bugs.
I think both those that de-hype concurrent games of DF, and those that de-hype DF have to jump in the same bag. This bag have to be labeled with the most harsh name you can think of, since clearly both of those communities or "part" of those cumunities demonstrate their lack of cell in their skulls.
And those argument de*hyping is part of the hype meter process, and those claiming to use no cheat to de-hype DF because they just edit their hype (and naturally acuse other to use alternate accounts) are very very very pathetic.
You guys deserve the trophy.
Keeper2000:
"You and others arent informing people. Just hyping. And you will be success! Many people will buy DFO on the hype and find it NOT to be what they were looking for."
If this would truly be the case, then they deserve it, you do a bit more reasearch on a game before you buy it, and we are not really hiding the fact that it is FFA PvP full loot.
And about the hype-meter this is how it works, don't blame the DFO community for "using it wrong" when we are only using it as it is intended to be used..
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I have nothing clever to say.