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Will WoW bring back first "M" in the "MMO" gameplay?
iZakaroN
Member UncommonPosts: 719
WAR is coming, and with him a great Massive gameplay. In oposite WoW was ruined it last years. Do you think that Blizzard will do somthing to bring it back with arival of WAR?
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Comments
OP:
TBC and the last year were a blessing for old boring WOW.
NEW : Daily quests, heroic dungeons, badge systems, general class loot (!) personal epic flying mounts, open free flight in Outland, BG gear for your alts, Arena gear on par with BT, open world PvP daily quests that actually get done on PvP servers, ... and ....
.... every 6 months a NEW motivation cycle to get going massively (PvP, PVE, crafting,...). the old argument of the old Wow haters just doesn't apply anymore: gear reset: present day Wow players laugh at this. They WANT the gear reset. They love it !!!
The game changed that much.
So yes what TBC did for skirmish fighting, WotLK will do for massively worldPvP fighting. I am sure.
AND .... of curse everybody can now do ALL the end raiding content with the optional 10 men raids.
I forsee even pick-up groups.
I wouldn't be suprised if they add insta-levels and let people start brand new characters at level 20 or 30 with 2000 gold.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
With the just launched WAR coming down to normal proportions now and the hyped Myth in Mythic's product appears to be a rather normal MMORPG with an already known feeling to it.
it's up to Blizzard to deliver in LW....
Will Blizz deliver? Don't they always ? (SC, Diabo, WC3, WoW ?).
A myth until November.
Well WAR looks like basically DAoC 2 at least from the pvp standpoint. If that will spark massive pvp battles, who knows we'll have to wait and see. Though they said that 2 cities and some content are going to be cut from the release, wonder if that is to make the Sept deadline?
WoW is currently in its World of GrindCraft version which came after the World of RaidCraft. Reason there isn't much "massive" to WoW is that Blizzard wants you to be running daily quests and single group heroics over and over and over. Raiding, which would normally encourage large groups to get together is done by a very small percentage of the population. World pvp is, as it stands now, a joke. I've seen Alliance wait patiently in Hellfire for a Horde to cap so they can do their daily with no fighting happening at all.
Why an example of a level 61 zone for world PvP with not even loot for level 65 +
take Halaa and the Terokkar forest: daily world PvP quests for level 70's.
On PvP servers often a blast.
As far as massive battles go, I've already been in battles with at least 50+ people per side on WAR. I'll probably give WotLK a shot down the road for their PvE stuff, and to try out the death knight quests but they will have to do more than just what i've heard about to get me excited about their PvP.
I wasn't aware WoW was LFM.
Sorry.
>.<
WOW is still a popular game but if 40% of the population can go try out a buggy AOC then it just shows that the current fanbase is bored. Now WAR is going to have a great launch. I can see those 40% and then some leaving WOW to try WAR easily. WOTLK is the last expansion and already people from beta are saying it is just more rehashed content just like TBC was. The only hope for Blizzard regarding mmos is making sure their new mmo delivers what the people want.
A online game with instances will never be a Massive multiplayer game, because the most important part of the game is private for a group / raid (thats not just wow, but also games like eq2)
HAhahahahaahaha hahahahahaha
wait for it...
oh, here it is... hahahahahahahaha
They have a great game. No one plays the same game forever, or EQ would still be
.
Warhammer will be to WoW what Shadowbane was to DAoC.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."
-Oscar Wilde
Absolutely agree with you, instancing is the other crap
aspect of WoW. Too sad its from the beggining so its in the roots of it and cannot be removed from WoW, NVM We have talking about massive PvP...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Just so you know 40% of wow players did not leave to try AOC that would equat to about 2million (counting westerns subs of 4.5 million). Blizzard said that 40% of the people who left to try AOC had come back within a month.. no idea on how many tried AOC though.. could be 10 or 10,000 for all we know.
I am in wrath beta and its more of what WoW players love plus so much more than we got in TBC. No reason for blizzard to change a winning formula.
And in regards to the new mmo.. it better be an MMO/RTS ... if any one can pull it off Blizzard can.
Just so you know 40% of wow players did not leave to try AOC that would equat to about 2million (counting westerns subs of 4.5 million). Blizzard said that 40% of the people who left to try AOC had come back within a month.. no idea on how many tried AOC though.. could be 10 or 10,000 for all we know.
I am in wrath beta and its more of what WoW players love plus so much more than we got in TBC. No reason for blizzard to change a winning formula.
And in regards to the new mmo.. it better be an MMO/RTS ... if any one can pull it off Blizzard can.
I dont even think god could make a good MMO/RTS thats just a joke.
God I am happy they pre published that WAR thing.
Good I could try it too after the GOA disaster.
Normal times again within say ... 30 days guys ?
After that I would make some extra servers available if I were Blizzard.
Perhaps some servers labeled "for returning hardcore zergfest members only".
But ...tt will be so good to fight these guys, coming out of a "slower" competition, it would be a peace of cake to win LW
))
HAhahahahaahaha hahahahahaha
wait for it...
oh, here it is... hahahahahahahaha
You guys just hear what you want to hear.
That Mike guy said 40% of the WoW subcribers who played AoC came back not 40% of WoW players went to try AOC. /sigh
As for WoW still being a Multi Massive its still is. I dont know WTF your smoking. People Log in all day long.
All MMO's have grinds. If you don't like to Grind then MMO's are not for you.
HAhahahahaahaha hahahahahaha
wait for it...
oh, here it is... hahahahahahahaha
You guys just hear what you want to hear.
That Mike guy said 40% of the WoW subcribers who played AoC came back not 40% of WoW players went to try AOC. /sigh
As for WoW still being a Multi Massive its still is. I dont know WTF your smoking. People Log in all day long.
Calm down. The War fanboys are learning it the hard way these last few hours, because finally they can play the game.
After playing WAR for real.
I could only think about 1 phrase all over again (low voice acting)
"THEY are NOT prepared ..."
HAhahahahaahaha hahahahahaha
wait for it...
oh, here it is... hahahahahahahaha
You guys just hear what you want to hear.
That Mike guy said 40% of the WoW subcribers who played AoC came back not 40% of WoW players went to try AOC. /sigh
As for WoW still being a Multi Massive its still is. I dont know WTF your smoking. People Log in all day long.
Just tell me what is the massive gameplay in WoW? Instanced dungeons? Or Battlegrounds? Ohhh arena - where most multiplayer games beat it by massive aspect? Only Haala and Hellfire pen was left... How its part of the game? Its there but almost no one participiate there... What other left? Meaningful main cities raids? LOL.. I dont think that massive gampley is more than 2% of the game. IRC looks more like MMO than WoW...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
You guys are funny. I loved WoW - and I mean I really, really loved the game - but it has started to slip away from me and I hope that WAR can be my next thing (note: 'my'). As of the OB and CB it looks as if it will.
Going to the attrition in WoW. Actually it has gone up dramatically lately. When TBC was launched there was a bump in activity in NA and the US with regard to # of subscribers. After that it was flat for some time and for the last 6 months it is unknown today. We know AoC took an unknown number but that 40% returned. The fair guess is that subs have been flat or (more likely) that there has been a slight decline (from a very large number).
WoW has continously been growing in asia throughout this period so my analysis is only for NA and the EU. If you then look at the WoW base box sales numbers it is still selling good (800,000 copies in the US last 12 months - I do not have EU data). What this means is that total subs is flat or slightly declining with an inflow of 800,000 in the US alone. This means that 800,000 players or more left the game in the US alone in the period.
We can only guess the numbers in the EU but it is most likely roughly the same.
This is a large trend shift and is ofc the reason why WotLK is pushed for a faster release than Blizzard themselves is used to and why there is such a large spending on advertising right now (buddy programs, old players are invited back etc).
Sikhander stop the panic in your voice.
WAR is out: go play it and come back when WotLK will launch.
WAR is a nicely unpolished game that from the very beginning to the very end is lacking in the features Blizzard has been known for: polishment in every aspect of the gameplay you see, feel, smell and play.
You may ignore it, you may deny it, put RvR talk or whatever over it, but you can't expect the game player not noticing it.
WotLK is not being "pushed faster" than TBC was (exact same planning) and I just read this morning that even the comics are into the same time schedule as the MMORPG. Meaning a year long preparation was planned.
Blizzard isn't FunCon.
As to whatever number of players WotLK will play or pay that's not even relevant here.
I believe the topic was... will WotLK bring back the "M" in MMO (meaning mass battles perhaps or mass content perhaps or mass media).
Blizzard doesn't need jumping flash hero developpers before a webcam to convince people thay have an awesome product.
Blizzard delivers and only when they consider it done.
That's all that matters.
Now i can see the panic in your eyes: Oh my God perhaps this old monster will still be able to kill off my so beloved WAR dream (hyped up by the jumping flash heroes we all know now).
So let's just do some rough analysis on the Wow forums just to convince these guys to try out my new love. Why else would you even post as a veteran WAR beta tester (or so it seems).
No problem. Just be on the safe side of things, because the backfire this kind of politics has is mostly the opposite of what you want.
Because in the end ... it's the product that counts and I don't hink Mythic is in a comfortable position right now. But it's their problem, they decided to ride up the Blizzard estate, just like AoC did 4 months ago.
The problem is there is a huge deep ravine next to the parking lot and it is already nicely filled up with broken cars. So defending the newest car who just rode past the parking is nice, but don't take up too much maneuvering space, because the owner's 40 ton truck is already on its way and needs ... space.
No problem with me. But are you prepared of coming back to WotLK "forum-wise", because in reality ...we all know ...they always come back with Wow installed on their HD.
@Memoir: There is no panic - it is just real numbers. And i am sure that WotLK will sell like nothing before. That is not my point though.
My point is that there is a shift in the WoW player base where there are more ex-WoWers than before, where WoW-players are more likely to go to bed with someone else for a time (or longer - who knows) and where the MMO market continues to expand (in total number of potential subscribers out there). That is all I am saying. In essence: WoW is mature in the western market - and hence more mortal than before (it is still a very good product - if I would advice someone new to MMOs what to play i would still say WoW, hands down).
And yes - I hope that WAR will succeed. And Vick/Memoir/Acrono/VonLeipzig: This is good for everyone - WoW needs competition which WAR shows by pushing Lake Winter and Achievements into WotLK. It is a pure win-win.
Wow. I couldn't agree more. ^5
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
After the hands on gameplay I no longer see the WAR experience as a good thing. Short term it's free publicity for Wow.
But everyone should buy it and see for themselves. Polishment in about every corner is absent.
Mythic is known for the bad parts of PVE content in DAoC. People left when they began designing those famous dungeons.
And you can't turn it away with "awesome RvR", because any PVP doesn't justify lack of polishment.
The WOW/WAR marketing is a technique that is getting old the moment WAR opened up his door to open beta and will hold no ground when the masses flood in.
It will backfire on the product and the very same technique used to create the hype is catastrophic for MMO's as an industry.
Mind my words: the product counts, not the hype.
I'm in the WAR Beta and it really isn't all that great. The main thing to me is there really isn't any exploration in the game. You start in one town do the quests, follow the road to the next town do those quests, follow the road to the next one do those quests, than go to the RvR. Which to have a game focused around it, it's pretty lame. After you do it you move to another beginning town, just a higher teir. Than rinse wash repeat, till you reach level 40 at end than you're stuck doing nothing. It's a big grind fest game, you grind to get RvR ranks to buy your armor, which is the only good armor. There isn't that many spells, and ones you have are the same as other classes just diff name. The maps are small. I see this game being a break from WOW, and they'll like it for a couple months cause it's not WOW, but they'll be back.
This was my experience also. Warhammer has a lot of minor problems, which when all stacked together make it a far inferior game to WOW.
RvR in Warhammer sounds great in theory. Leveling up by pvping sounds great in theory. But their implementation is very bland. For instance... Each tier has exactly the same seige combat mechanisms. think of the brackets in WSG. its the same thing... And that IS THE GAME. that is all their is.. Tiers... your character gets new abilities, but you'll be fighting the exact same people in the exact same seige mechanisms the entire time from 1-40.
As far as leveling up by doing pvp. Again, it is completely borked. If you have an instant cast dot spell, you are going to be leveling up ten times as fast as everyone else. Just run into the middle of a fight, put a single dot on everyone.. and prosper. Classes (like a warrior in WOW) who only can slowly damage a single target, are going to get left in the dust during leveling.
the final piece is the death part of it. Again, their entire system is similar to a WSG where everyone fights in the middle. You run in, do as much damage to as many different poeple as posssible (because EVERYONE will play the dot class) and then you die.... rinse and repeat.
Then there is class balance. Not only do you have the major 'dot' issue, but even past that there are outrageous imbalances. Look at the class compositions of the Arena 5v5 teams and it's fairly balanced (warriors are a bit high, but everyone else is nearly the same). Are players going to wait months and months until classes in War are even closely balanced. Not likely in a pvp game that needs to be extremely well balanced.
Warhammer will sell 750k - 1 million boxes, but will have about 300k subscribers by December