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"Revolutionary" Combat System
d10sfan
Member Posts: 34
I keep hearing lots of people praising this game for its new combat system. I honestly do not get that. When I played it, it was button spamming, going 1234556122454 all the time. Why thats any different than other mmos, I have no idea. A little sidenote about this is, AOC is the only game that I stopped playing because my wrist started hurting from all of the key spam.
Comments
Combat was the only "Revolutionary" thing about AoC. But even then, after finally playing it, there were some negative things.
* If you're talking about a pure physical fight, i.e. Bows / Crossbows and melee fighting, yes, it was quite different from most MMO combat systems. You actually had to consider the setup and priority of your defenses, namely shield positioning (if applicable). You had to consider where and when to attack a defender due to these defenses. The combo system was interesting, but there were times the execution felt clumsy with all the keys that had to be entered to execute a single special. It did feel at times like a huge key smashing orgy.
* While the defense and combo system was interesting for the physical fighters (to include Rangers), it's all negated by the magic system. Press a key to attack, you're done.
The shielding and combo system was the only thing special to AoC, but even then, it only applied to a portion of the overall combat system.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
ye the revolutionary "combath systhem" was afterall a piece of crap, fights are slow, u cant chase someone and perform a combo, in the end its all a tank and spank button mashing GG mr godager...
-Lum
Hmm did you even play the game or you just jumped on hate wagon ?
Please explain how you cant chase someone and preform the combo ?
The classic magic attack did borked the combo if they had those working like melee's one it would be far more better. On the other hand you see lots of players choosing magic just because they dont wanna use the combos.
As for slow ... again did you even play the game ?
Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]
Hmm did you even play the game or you just jumped on hate wagon ?
Please explain how you cant chase someone and preform the combo ?
The classic magic attack did borked the combo if they had those working like melee's one it would be far more better. On the other hand you see lots of players choosing magic just because they dont wanna use the combos.
As for slow ... again did you even play the game ?
Yes, he said slow, and I'll echo it.
If buttons per second (BPS) is your measure of speed, than sure, AoC requires a ton of button mashing to do the same things other games do with fewer.
If you're talking about kill times, however, AoC is average at best, a little bit slow at worst. Much of this is due to all the mandatory button mashing, at least for melee classes, especially at higher levels (unless you're one of the one-shot classes exploiting the +dam gem imbalance in the game). In short, in my opinion, you don't kill mobs any faster in AoC than you do in most other games. YOu do push more buttons, though, as you hit the passcodes to activate your specials.
Have you played the game, and if so, is it possible for you to attempt to be objective about it?
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I played to level 80 and have yet to see anything revolutionary about AoC's combat system other than it bored me to death because it was so slow.
It was the delay inbetween button presses that annoyed the hell out of me. They should allow you to just press the keys as soon as they show up. The 4 and 5 hit combos pushed me over the edge. Anyone who has tanked in a raid will tell you how freaking annoying those combos are
The shields were a great gimmick when fighting mobs that are constantly changing them but how many actually used it on themselves on a regular basis? They didn't make it easy to change your shields on the fly either. It was people with Nostromo setups that got the most out of it.
Basically it boils down to poor implementation.
I pre-ordered expecting to find what was promised, i found the same old thing, different scerario/them/story. this "revolutionary" combat system doesn't exist, you don't have to button mash either, combat is still slow point and click like all the others, only combo's are the extra (don't know if other games do combos the way AoC does but i know CoX has combo moves, this skill first then that skill etc to complete a combo for extra damage or to weaken opponent defenses for a short time).
As i said the way combos are done is the only TRUE thing new to the game, you click a skill, character hits, you press a direction attack, character hits, you press another direction attack, character hits, continue to end of combo.... whats fast paced or button mashing about that, i wasted 3 months getting a conqueror to level 52 and what did keys did i use?? hardly any, i sat back in my chair with one hand on mouse and other hand with either a cig or a coffee in it, how many times did i die?? plenty.. how many times could i have avoided dying if i "mashed my keyboard" instead of playing one handed?? none.. button mashing is not involved in any way shape or form, it's slow combat as always where you click a skill then click directions to work through the combo. speed of working through the directions is not important as a slight yellowy orangeish colour forms a border when you can press the next direction in the combo move.
Some may ask what i define as button mashing with how i've just mentioned things, i describe button mashing like the old arcade/joystick fighting games, physically slamming on the buttons due to the speed required, i don't know of an MMO where this is the case as non are truelly combat/keyboard slamming.
I agree.
The combos aren't "revolutionary" in any way - they are a different way of doing the same thing (just like every game has a slightly different combat system). The directional arrow buttons you have to hit after hitting the desired combo are just a passcode/player-operated induction progress bar. You can hit them slower than they become active, but you can't hit them any faster (like in a console fighting game). There is always a significant pause between button mashes.
Push combo, wait until system ready for next input.... Push "1", wait until system ready,... Push "3", wait until system ready.... Push "2", combo then goes off with a progress/cast bar timer.
It's not fast paced at all, and gets tedious quickly.
And the shield system are just a novelty. An extremely unwieldy system, to say the least.
The only really different things in the combat system are the double-tap keys, and things like active blocking.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Is it revolutionary? That's certainly debatable.
However if you are constantly spamming the same sequence of keys in melee, you are not using your character to its fullest potential. The directional attacks play into the shielding system. Pick a combo that lands on an lightly or unshielded side and you get a significant bonus to damage. A combo that lands on a heavily shielded side will receive a significant reduction in damage.
Since mobs react to damage by moving their shields about, a player must pick the best combo on the fly in order to deal the most damage. Players who utilize this system to the fullest, along with blocking, double-tapping, stances, and positioning, can find it a more engaging and rewarding experience than combat in other mmos.
Now, it is certainly possible to totally ignore these features and still kill mobs. Lord knows I did for the first 75 levels. But if you take that approach, you are really missing out on a deep and fun combat system.
As to the delay between button presses in a combo chain, I believe that was done to make the game less twichy since the idea of twich based combat tends to scare off older players or players with slower reaction time. I don't mind it since it gives me a split second to evaluate my target's shields and start thinking about which combo to execute next.
Yes, this. I played Barbarian and it was frustrating as hell to have to wait for the game to keep. I suppose it was being "realistic" in terms of human swing time, but it felt clumsy and slow.
Oh and I also enjoyed losing skills in the queueing system. On more than one occasion I found myself with way too many mobs, went for the AOE knockback thing and at the same moment as hitting the button I got a fatality. The animation ran but the knockback did not execute - somewhere along the way it got lost and I died thanks to a fatality... I wasn't pleased.
The only remotely interesting part of the melee combat was the movement and sense of presence in a world. But seemed the same as melee fighting in DDO so it was hardly revolutionary. And anyone who has ever been poked by a polearm from a place way outside of range knows that presence in the game is sometimes warped.
To invoke the other game... In WoW you might press 1 button to do one mortal strike. In AOC you might have to press 3 buttons to do the same mortal strike. What is revolutionary in that? And casting is the same as casting in every other MMO I have played.
The shield system is of some interest but the implementation is a bit duff and the shields sometimes just didn't seem terribly responsive.
I agree with this 100%, if the shields would have moved instantly when you pressed the buttons, it would have been much better. They were way too slow, and by the time you would get the shields into a position that you wanted, you were usually getting hit on the other side by that time.
I have to say I like the combat system.
In most MMOs I've played combat consists of fighting an opponent with a base combat move and then throwing in a power move, switching back to basic combat until cooldown periods are done, and then hitting him again with the power move.
On the face of it this is just the same - but in AoC the difference is that it matters what your opponent is doing when you go to hit him - his shields will negate a wrongly selected attack. So selection of your attack needs to be more considered perhaps - you cant just rely on your latest acquired skill.
Those who say it's not innovative because it's just button mashing are stating the obvious I think. As long as we're using keyboards this will inevitably be the case.
Hmm did you even play the game or you just jumped on hate wagon ?
Please explain how you cant chase someone and preform the combo ?
I can answer that for him:
When you move, your combo fails.
Have you actually played the game?
Hmm did you even play the game or you just jumped on hate wagon ?
Please explain how you cant chase someone and preform the combo ?
I can answer that for him:
When you move, your combo fails.
Have you actually played the game?
Strange I move and hit combos all the time - no problem.
Are you saying that you can't execute a combo on the run, or that if you move once the combo animation has started it cancels? That would seem fair enough - you wouldn't want to be rooted to the spot.
Hmm did you even play the game or you just jumped on hate wagon ?
Please explain how you cant chase someone and preform the combo ?
I can answer that for him:
When you move, your combo fails.
Have you actually played the game?
Strange I move and hit combos all the time - no problem.
Are you saying that you can't execute a combo on the run, or that if you move once the combo animation has started it cancels? That would seem fair enough - you wouldn't want to be rooted to the spot.
Of course you can move and then do a combo. I assume that he meant moving while doing the combo, else it would have been stating the obvious.
In AoC I can chose to swing my sword in 5 directions. Show me another game that does this.
DPS melee fighting is fast and furious and it requires a lot of skill to be good at (just log in to a pvp server to see this).
So yes, compared to all of the other games with the same old... same old... fighing system, AoC is indeed revolutionary. Just look at what WAR comes out almost in 2009, same old boring crap. I was so bored with the same old WAR at level 10 that I couldn't make myself login anymore and went back to AoC (which I had left 2 months ago). Where I couldn't bring myself to log into WAR anymore after playing for 1 day I have now been playing AoC almost non stop for 3 days and can't have enough of it.
And what I realise now after coming back is that Aoc combat is indeed very good. I can't say if it is the best, but it is indeed revolutionary. If you want to play the same gameplay for 10 years, be my guest. I welcome the change and new variety of game play.
Different gameplays for different people. Like many love the cartoon games like Wow and War, and others prefer some mature content.
Some of the people here first need to play the game before posting nonsense.
I can move before and while I am doing a combo. I do it all the time. No problem. (hold right+left mouse buttons to move, while doing this your other hand is free to do whatever you want with the keyboard).
I guess this just explains why some people suck at pvp. And this just shows once again that AoC combat needs skill to master, and is indeed new compared to the same old same old the other games have been coming out with during the past 10 years.
For me the AoC combat system is one of the best in mmorpgs today. I can't say if it is the best, but it has a lot of depth to it. It seems simple on the surface, but is complicated to master. It needs skill, and this is what makes pvp fun. A lower level player can kill a player 10 levels higher, I just saw this again yesterday. This is indeed different from the same old... same old...
Hmm did you even play the game or you just jumped on hate wagon ?
Please explain how you cant chase someone and preform the combo ?
I can answer that for him:
When you move, your combo fails.
Have you actually played the game?
Strange I move and hit combos all the time - no problem.
Are you saying that you can't execute a combo on the run, or that if you move once the combo animation has started it cancels? That would seem fair enough - you wouldn't want to be rooted to the spot.
Of course you can move and then do a combo. I assume that he meant moving while doing the combo, else it would have been stating the obvious.
Well you assume wrong.
Originally posted by antaras
ye the revolutionary "combath systhem" was afterall a piece of crap, fights are slow, u cant chase someone and perform a combo,
As soon as you hit combo key you are in combo mode aka you start to preform combo, Antaras said you cant chase someone and do it ... and thats clearly wrong.
Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]
It's obvious to see how he meant it.
And that wasn't it. If you can't see that, then it tells me a lot.
Have you played the game? It seems not....
If you make your combos fail when you move then you don't know how to play (and you must most certainly suck at pvp).
What you say also shows how much depth the AoC fighting system has, as you couldn't even execute this most basic and most important feature of the fighting system. You are nothing in pvp if you can't do this.
Here's a tip: hold your right+left mouse buttons to move, your other hand will be free on the keyboard to execute all of the combos you want, while moving, jumping, sprinting, swimming,...
Well you are maybe right.
If it was said something like ... while preforming finisher on combo aka you need to wait for that 2,3 seconds animation to finish then it would be obvious.
However if some who never tried or saw AoC read his sentence I guess he would think you cant move at all while preforming some long combos. ( I maybe wrong )
Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]
Well you are maybe right.
If it was said something like ... while preforming finisher on combo aka you need to wait for that 2,3 seconds animation to finish then it would be obvious.
However if some who never tried or saw AoC read his sentence I guess he would think you cant move at all while preforming some long combos. ( I maybe wrong )
You are right:)
You can move while doing the steps up to the last part of the combo. When the combo executes you have combo animation that runs and if you move during that time your combo does not finish. It is really not a big of a problem as long as you dont play bunnyjumping.
well lvl 80 stygian ranger / 42 guardian on soulstorm PvP
if ur chasing an enemy and u try to do a combo ur character will stop right there hitting the atmosphere wich is quite a piece of shi*
yes it IS slow as someone says here to the time between the combo moves is so boring
i did not jumped on the "hatewagon" I DO HATE FUNCOM and i WOULD like my 80 FU**ING EUROS BACK
KK THX
im still looking for the rickroll but im not sure i can find it......................
Nothing revolutionary in AoC combat, in fact.............it is a step back.
Things like stamina and mana drains mean nothing. Knockbacks are just stuns with a different animation. debuffs are a joke, Collision detection is laughable because its the game is a zergfest nothing more. Class balance isnt even in game yet. Password protected combos are stupid, all it does is make us have to swing for our auto attack. SHield system is a joke, there is no blocking in this game at all. Defense shields are also a joke, all you do is use your more damaging combo in the unprotected spot on mobs, and against players, moving your shields will just open you up to get 1 shot in pvp, if they dont 1 shot your already.
I much prefer combat you have to think about, such as warhammers combat. Very balanced and all classes perform well in pvp and have a purpose.