First off, please don't jump all over me. I'll try my best to word this without starting an argument. And this maybe ONLY my problem, as I may be playing to much in the last few days. RvR battles seem to always turn out the same ( no variety ). I played both sides of the fence. In preview weekend I played a Shadow Warrior to level 11 ( ranged ), and now a Black Orc to level 13 ( tank ). Because of casters and archers, it seems as if few rush the line. It's them and us and it always comes down to a stalemate until one side or the other decides to quit. If a player dies he has a choice to run back or quit. This just goes on and on until the numbers are off balance. It's not Warhammer devs. or the players fault, HOWEVER if most find RvR battles boring, then I have a few ideas. - Shorter casting and archer distance. - Voice chat for War bands. No one is using chat to take charge, It's not the players fault because simple chat has no power, and most don't see it anyway. Guild's using Ventrilo and it works great, I know my guild used it. I would like to stress that I maybe alone with this problem, but RvR is half of what the game is about. I feel very bad right now as I may not purchase Warhammer. What does everyone else think ?
You pretty much summed up a normal solo RvR experience. Now with that said, guild RvR is and will continue to be something completely different. For the most part you will not see long stand off type of fights (except for keeps) when guilds are running warbands.
All the things you see as a negative, I see as a positive BECAUSE it just makes it that much faster for my coordinated warband to rip through the other sides unorganized zerg. WAR makes it pretty easy for Solo players to enjoy most of the game, but if you want to see what RvR can and will be you have to be part of a competitive guild.
Originally posted by page Their will never be Warband organization with out Voice chat, the more I think about it, the more this game needs voice chat and NOW !. When the servers come up, I will try do my best to organize small groups together, but They have to fix this game with voice chat. After all Warhammer's motto is " war ". Vintrilo is not the answer because you can only have one IP address at a time, thats all great for guilds, but you have to often work with others outside your guild. Voice Chat Now !!!!!!!
But in rvr if you have 5 warbands working together voice chat won't be the answer. You can't have 300 people on one channel. People are going to have to learn to use the text chat to communicate.
This has been a mjor concern since early beta and now you get a full picture of how it works almost ala carte DAOC. Welcome to caster/long range RvR once again. With the absolute astonishing cut of classes and this issue still prevelant, it won't unseat anything. As a long time tester and a major WAR fan, I am thoroughly disappointed with the end product and now I am once again not playing a MMO.....
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
I think that unguilded/unvoiced RvR is always going to have issues with what you're describing. You're going to start seeing guilds with well thought out and executed strategies really doing well and other groups having a disadvantage.
As far as with really large RvR and not being able to communicate you can think of it as an army. Not everyone is going to know exactly what everyone is doing from an individual standpoint. If my guild is given an objective and another guild is given another objective then that will probably work without having a ton of text chat. Alliances will learn what different member guilds are capable of and adjust accordingly.
I belong to a good guild on the Order side. During the Preview weekend we have lots of fun, very good organized RvR using ventrilo. With this beta, I decided to play destruction until release, and find without a guild your screwed. Your all alone!
Its a very lonely game. Sure I'll play with my guild when the game goes live, but I don't like the idea that it's very Guild dependent, and all guilds better have a back round chat program running.
I just tried to organize groups in several tier 2 zones and nothing, no response at all.
I've played most all MMO's. I was very social, in-fact I could organize groups to go places without having a clue what I was doing. But the mechanics of Warhammer is set up too well to group in some cases such as PQs, quest, and scenarios just last night we did the same scenario 3 times without even a word until I asked how everyone liked the game, got short answers and then silence.
Just now I was in Troll Country, we had Order pinned down at their War camp. An even battle seems like 20v20, I checked out the LFG and found just 2 groups of 2 players in each, I created another one and "shouted" lets make a warband guess what ? Silence ! 10 min. later I looked around and everyone quit, about 3 of us left and we just got pile derived into the ground, no explanation, no nothing !
I waited for Warhammer, I read everything I could about Warhammer. It all sounds great, and they delivered all as promised. I have no problems with graphics, the large beautiful world, class balance or issues with the computer specs.
Just organization, loneliness, and dependence of a guild using voice chat !
I'm on vacation this week, and i just cant see myself logging in tomorrow to another standard 20v20 RVR mess.
the game is fine. its great actually, and its much better than most MMOs. and its not WoW, its far from it actually. The UI may look like WoW, but the combat does not FEEL like WoW at all. Although WoW has much better PvE content than WAR, so if you are a PvE person I would go with VG, WoW, or EQ2, as these are the only decent PvE games out there right now. Well and there's LotRO too, but its not that great imo.
And dont start saying that VG sucks, because it may have problems, but a lot of that has been fixed, and it is a great game. Worst thing about it is the population, which is growning, and will grow even more with the release of Isle of Dawn.
Instead of twinks steam rolling you, there will be guilds with vent steam rolling you.
Bad troll is bad
Voice chat is no where near the advantage that twinks in WoW enjoyed over regular players. They could easily kill 4-5 non-twinks without communication with team mates, and nigh invincible with a healer.
There should be no disadvantages for people that actually communicate, if anything the advantage a well informed team should have is a completely legitimate result of teamwork.
Wow, people will find anything to complain about these days.
Should it really come as a surprise that a well organized group who communicates with each other would do better then a PUG? No, in fact, if they didn't do better, then I would be complaining.
This is the type of gameplay I have wanted since DAoC. A game where tactics and a group working together would win over the unorganized zerg.
As far as no one communicating. Well.. I have a theory for that. I believe that in the OB there are probably a lot of WoW vets trying out the game. WoW really killed group communication, so the people who have been playing WoW for too long are used to that type of thing.
In DAoC almost everyone used the in-game text chat, and it always worked pretty well. But that was before WoW.
Once the game is released one of two things will happen.
One. As people start to level up and realize that they can not compete in RvR without talking to their groupmates text communication will start to happen again. By 40 text communication will be common place with guilds who us voice chat having a minor advantage over PUGs. Which is the way I think it should be.
Two. Everyone will keep the same WoW mentality of not chatting, just doing their own thing, not grouping up, and getting their asses handed to them. Then at level 40 the game will be ruled by Guild vs. Guild combat leaving little room for PUGs to really compete in the overall RvR effort.
I really hope the community picks option 1.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Comments
You pretty much summed up a normal solo RvR experience. Now with that said, guild RvR is and will continue to be something completely different. For the most part you will not see long stand off type of fights (except for keeps) when guilds are running warbands.
All the things you see as a negative, I see as a positive BECAUSE it just makes it that much faster for my coordinated warband to rip through the other sides unorganized zerg. WAR makes it pretty easy for Solo players to enjoy most of the game, but if you want to see what RvR can and will be you have to be part of a competitive guild.
But in rvr if you have 5 warbands working together voice chat won't be the answer. You can't have 300 people on one channel. People are going to have to learn to use the text chat to communicate.
This has been a mjor concern since early beta and now you get a full picture of how it works almost ala carte DAOC. Welcome to caster/long range RvR once again. With the absolute astonishing cut of classes and this issue still prevelant, it won't unseat anything. As a long time tester and a major WAR fan, I am thoroughly disappointed with the end product and now I am once again not playing a MMO.....
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
I think that unguilded/unvoiced RvR is always going to have issues with what you're describing. You're going to start seeing guilds with well thought out and executed strategies really doing well and other groups having a disadvantage.
As far as with really large RvR and not being able to communicate you can think of it as an army. Not everyone is going to know exactly what everyone is doing from an individual standpoint. If my guild is given an objective and another guild is given another objective then that will probably work without having a ton of text chat. Alliances will learn what different member guilds are capable of and adjust accordingly.
I belong to a good guild on the Order side. During the Preview weekend we have lots of fun, very good organized RvR using ventrilo. With this beta, I decided to play destruction until release, and find without a guild your screwed. Your all alone!
Its a very lonely game. Sure I'll play with my guild when the game goes live, but I don't like the idea that it's very Guild dependent, and all guilds better have a back round chat program running.
I just tried to organize groups in several tier 2 zones and nothing, no response at all.
I've played most all MMO's. I was very social, in-fact I could organize groups to go places without having a clue what I was doing. But the mechanics of Warhammer is set up too well to group in some cases such as PQs, quest, and scenarios just last night we did the same scenario 3 times without even a word until I asked how everyone liked the game, got short answers and then silence.
Just now I was in Troll Country, we had Order pinned down at their War camp. An even battle seems like 20v20, I checked out the LFG and found just 2 groups of 2 players in each, I created another one and "shouted" lets make a warband guess what ? Silence ! 10 min. later I looked around and everyone quit, about 3 of us left and we just got pile derived into the ground, no explanation, no nothing !
I waited for Warhammer, I read everything I could about Warhammer. It all sounds great, and they delivered all as promised. I have no problems with graphics, the large beautiful world, class balance or issues with the computer specs.
Just organization, loneliness, and dependence of a guild using voice chat !
I'm on vacation this week, and i just cant see myself logging in tomorrow to another standard 20v20 RVR mess.
QQ
the game is fine. its great actually, and its much better than most MMOs. and its not WoW, its far from it actually. The UI may look like WoW, but the combat does not FEEL like WoW at all. Although WoW has much better PvE content than WAR, so if you are a PvE person I would go with VG, WoW, or EQ2, as these are the only decent PvE games out there right now. Well and there's LotRO too, but its not that great imo.
And dont start saying that VG sucks, because it may have problems, but a lot of that has been fixed, and it is a great game. Worst thing about it is the population, which is growning, and will grow even more with the release of Isle of Dawn.
Bad troll is bad
Voice chat is no where near the advantage that twinks in WoW enjoyed over regular players. They could easily kill 4-5 non-twinks without communication with team mates, and nigh invincible with a healer.
There should be no disadvantages for people that actually communicate, if anything the advantage a well informed team should have is a completely legitimate result of teamwork.
Wow, people will find anything to complain about these days.
Should it really come as a surprise that a well organized group who communicates with each other would do better then a PUG? No, in fact, if they didn't do better, then I would be complaining.
This is the type of gameplay I have wanted since DAoC. A game where tactics and a group working together would win over the unorganized zerg.
As far as no one communicating. Well.. I have a theory for that. I believe that in the OB there are probably a lot of WoW vets trying out the game. WoW really killed group communication, so the people who have been playing WoW for too long are used to that type of thing.
In DAoC almost everyone used the in-game text chat, and it always worked pretty well. But that was before WoW.
Once the game is released one of two things will happen.
One. As people start to level up and realize that they can not compete in RvR without talking to their groupmates text communication will start to happen again. By 40 text communication will be common place with guilds who us voice chat having a minor advantage over PUGs. Which is the way I think it should be.
Two. Everyone will keep the same WoW mentality of not chatting, just doing their own thing, not grouping up, and getting their asses handed to them. Then at level 40 the game will be ruled by Guild vs. Guild combat leaving little room for PUGs to really compete in the overall RvR effort.
I really hope the community picks option 1.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."