It wasn't owned, developed, or created by SOE whatsoever.
When in development SOE only had publishing power...meaning they provided the financial interests in producing the DVDs and marketing them out. They also assisted with tech issues when the game came out.
You need to research this a little bit more before slamming SOE.
The negative impact SOE has on the popularity of this game has nothing to do with SOE's own involvement with the game.
A lot of potential Vanguard players were SWG players who swore never to buy anything SOE ever touched.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
It wasn't owned, developed, or created by SOE whatsoever.
When in development SOE only had publishing power...meaning they provided the financial interests in producing the DVDs and marketing them out. They also assisted with tech issues when the game came out.
You need to research this a little bit more before slamming SOE.
The negative impact SOE has on the popularity of this game has nothing to do with SOE's own involvement with the game.
A lot of potential Vanguard players were SWG players who swore never to buy anything SOE ever touched.
that i can agree with
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I have been playing the free trial of Vanguard, granted I am stuck on the newbie island but I hear from others that the rest of the world is just as good but with fewer people. FEWER PEOPLE I SAY ?!? Its actualy much like the way I thought Everquest 2 should have been made a few years back. I hear people complain its slow, it crashes, its full of bugs.... I have not had one crash and my average system runs just fine, a bit laggy but I blame my DSL for that. Its almost barren. Ive created charactors on all 3 servers and I run into so few people.... granted im stuck on newbie island. Why is this game not popular? Why are people not playing?
SOEs involvment may be one thing but ultimately once people are burned by a bad experience it's very difficult to get them back and I hear Vanguard had a horrible launch.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
if you havent played this game in the last 2 months YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEAK TO ITS QUALITY, PERFORMANCE OR DEPTH ....imho
If you are considering vanguard dont read any of the alpha testers feed back - The difference between vanguard now and in beta / launch is the difference between hearing feedback on windows 3.1 beta while a bunch of us are rockin on the new vista platform.
Beta testers get over yourselves - it was a whiel ago now. The events that led to Sigil's demise is water under the bridge. With so many WoW clones on the market now people really need to take a good hard look at the environment they choose to play in.
Sandboxers need to give this game a shot. Also anyone whos into UO housing and a cool crafting system.
As tacky as it sounds sandboxers looking for a good game owe those that came before the chance. See the thing is Brad wasn't so nuts afterall because the vision did come true...just a little late and with a different management perspective and 15 gazzion optiization fixes and a lot of hard work by devs past and present.
the truth is SOE has as many devs working on Vanguard as they do on EQ2 and their doing a dam fine job.
The thing is is SOE has come out and said that they cant/ wont advertise Vanguard as much as Eq2 and the rest because of population.
So ultimately- you sandboxers who are looking for a new post eq1 / uo era home owe us who came before you a chance sounds tacky but the only thing ....and I mean the only thing this game is really missing and the only thing that is preventing this from being the innovation of eq1 we all desired is you.
I swear im not a viral markerter ..my god look through my posting history - i tore this game apart at launch. But getover the history lessons of the game managed by a different company and for the love of god check for yourself.
It wasn't owned, developed, or created by SOE whatsoever.
When in development SOE only had publishing power...meaning they provided the financial interests in producing the DVDs and marketing them out. They also assisted with tech issues when the game came out.
You need to research this a little bit more before slamming SOE.
Soe didn't have much, if anything, to do with the initial problems Vanguard has. However, when it was announced soe had a limited involvement with Vanguard, that turned many people off. Same thing happened with Pirates of the Burning Sea. Now Vanguard is 100% owned by soe. I hear its certainly better than it was and its a much improved game but its still owned by soe, which means theres many people that won't play it, no matter how good it is.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
You cant blame SOE for the failure of this game.....Im surprised they bought it in the first place.....In fact if it wasnt for station access there might not be anyone playing vanguard....Like many have said the game had a horrific launch....it released probably 6 months to a year too early.....first impressions are huge in this industry and if it is very poor then the word will get around......
The main reason I would say, is the fact when Vanguard came out, it was so bug ridden and lacking so much of what was promised, that people left. Now granted it has improved so much from what it was, but usually with MMOs you get one shot to do it right and most people arn't willing to come back to the game or try something that so many people have bad mouthed in the past. Shame, it prob does deserve a 2nd chance, but it never will get it.
It is because of when it was first released. It was owned by Sigil and the CEO, Brad McQuaid did not know what the hell he was doing. He was too busy having an affair with the PR director than to lead the game in terms of financial and development direction. Long story short, they released it way too early because they ran out of money due to poor business decisions. It was released with bugs everywhere and anywhere. Classes were screwed up, performance issues were bad. It was just really messy. They went from 250,000 users to 20,000 users in two months and then Sigil wen tout of business, selling the game to Sony. Brad Mcquaid got hundreds of thousand of dollars out of the deal and everyone else was fired in Sigil's parking lot on a Friday Afternoon by a 3rd party contractor that is leased out to fire people. Brad didn't even have the balls to tell the people who slaved over this game that he had to let them go and liquidate the company. Think of it as Age of Conan but with a smaller company involved.
What a douche. Sounds like no one in the industry will trust him again, so good luck finding a new job.
Again where is the proof? you can't take someones word for it because its like chinese whispers and you need all sides of the story, people just need a scapegoat.
Also Slaved over the game? No they were being paid.
What he did in public, his own words, did not live up to the end results. Nothing to prove there.
Either accept it and live in reality or deny it to live in a fantasy.
what i think is funny is this thread is getting all kinds of loving like Vanguard hasnt got players or something.....mean while the /who command on the trial island on seradon is bringing back too many queries to display and ive seen plenty of people off the island both in the last few weeks and today on my "main".
It is because of when it was first released. It was owned by Sigil and the CEO, Brad McQuaid did not know what the hell he was doing. He was too busy having an affair with the PR director than to lead the game in terms of financial and development direction. Long story short, they released it way too early because they ran out of money due to poor business decisions. It was released with bugs everywhere and anywhere. Classes were screwed up, performance issues were bad. It was just really messy. They went from 250,000 users to 20,000 users in two months and then Sigil wen tout of business, selling the game to Sony. Brad Mcquaid got hundreds of thousand of dollars out of the deal and everyone else was fired in Sigil's parking lot on a Friday Afternoon by a 3rd party contractor that is leased out to fire people. Brad didn't even have the balls to tell the people who slaved over this game that he had to let them go and liquidate the company. Think of it as Age of Conan but with a smaller company involved.
What a douche. Sounds like no one in the industry will trust him again, so good luck finding a new job.
Again where is the proof? you can't take someones word for it because its like chinese whispers and you need all sides of the story, people just need a scapegoat.
Also Slaved over the game? No they were being paid.
There's proof all over the websites. Many directly from Brad's mouth in invterviews after the folding of Sigil. All you have to do is Google it. It isn't rumour. It's factual information. Hell, ill even make it easy for you. One interview:
f13.net: Right after the split and before the tragedy the other day, that's when people claim you started to be in the office... not quite as much. Can you explain why?
Brad McQuaid:: - I'd never really been in the private investor/VC world - and we started that process. I was in and out of the office quite a bit. Demoing the game, showing it to potential investors and putting together the documentation. All sorts of stuff you have to do for that kind of money
f13.net:So that time being out of the office was business?
Brad McQuaid: It was a bummer.
f13.net:There were three questions people really want answers to... the first being, why weren't you at the office on launch day?
Brad McQuaid: Launch day?
f13.net:Apparently they had "cake and champagne."
Brad McQuaid: In general, I had just found out about future events and what was likely or possible to occur... and it broke my heart. Emotionally, I just couldn't be sitting there celebrating and putting on a big smile when I knew the troubles we might be facing in the future
f13.net: And the next party... god, I am a fucking cynic. Why weren't you at the firing party?
Brad McQuaid:Well, this is going to sound corny but it's true. I would have broken down in tears.
f13.net: I have since discovered that SOE didn't even know it was going to go down like that. They had something else planned, something less cold. You read the interview right?
Brad McQuaid: The Long and Morbid tale one?
f13.net: Well, let me just read it back. I've now had multiple people say the same thing. It's uncanny. Not a single one of them seem to have embellished. - well basically "You're all fired, some of you may be rehired by Sony Online Entertainment" an-
Brad McQuaid:I know those people and have a great deal of respect for them, but that sounds awful cold the way you said it...
f13.net: No, you don't understand. Everyone said the same thing. I have confirmed it with no less than six people. That they used the phrase "you're all fired." On that day. In a parking lot. My big problem with this is, well, I don't know your relationship with Bill Fisher, but at this event he made a joke about his stock options buying him a new house. I don't even know how you can comment on this.
f13.net: This is something that, well, I've already got the people involved to corroborate... did the affair between April Jones and Jeff Butler actually affect anything in development?
Brad McQuaid:I'm not going to comment on their personal life.
f13.net:I'll be honest, you touched on my next question. I heard that, well, apparently it was an open secret. That's fine. Whatever. It happens in every office. But the real problem was, well, seemed to have been that - Jeff's wife still worked there. How do you... you know, never mind, it needs to come from them.
Brad McQuaid:It made it worse, that's all I'll say.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
the truth is SOE has as many devs working on Vanguard as they do on EQ2 and their doing a dam fine job.
That was true when SOE first bought the game. After they realized they bought a lemon, they quickly began cutting the dev team. The Vanguard team is quite small now.
The main reason Vanguard is un-popular is because MMOs very rarely recover from poor launches. SOE's initial involvement had a negative impact on the game, mainly because Vanguard was intended to appeal to former EQ players, and many of them are less willing to play SOE games than former SWG players. The pre-release Vanguard forums, the ones on Sigil's site, exploded with posts by former EQ players saying they were no longer interested in Vanguard due to SOE being announced as the publisher (much like the PotBS forums). It was bad enough that John Smedley, the president of SOE, made several posts saying SOE would have no involvement in the game's development (yes, the president of SOE was using the fact that his company would have no influence on the game's development as a selling point, think about that for a moment), in an attempt to calm things down. The vast majority of the folks who made such posts left Vanguard behind without looking back.
All of that was compounded by the fact that Vanguard was released in an extremely poor condition. As I said before, MMOs very rarely recover from poor launches. A prime example of that is EQ2. The fact is, there are too many choices available today for people to waste their time and money in the hopes that any MMO is going to become a good game someday in the future. They can just pick up a different game that isn't a broken mess and have fun right away. AoC is the most recent example, at least until WAR is released.
That was true when SOE first bought the game. After they realized they bought a lemon, they quickly began cutting the dev team. The Vanguard team is quite small now.
I don't think they were surprised about buying a lemon. SOE knew the game was crap but they got such a good deal they bought it anyway. It's pretty much in maintenance mode at this point...just another crappy station pass game that will never see any real content or expansions.
The thing is is SOE has come out and said that they cant/ wont advertise Vanguard as much as Eq2 and the rest because of population.
This
Although i really wonder why SOE dont advertise for VG. No doubt it will not have 10mil players , but at least for players waiting for DF, or wanting a non-instance game, or more group oriented game, this game will appeal to most of them...
Looking at how much SOE is trying to hype for EQ2 but didnt get any good result, i think, they should help VG and give it a chance...
I have been playing the free trial of Vanguard, granted I am stuck on the newbie island but I hear from others that the rest of the world is just as good but with fewer people. FEWER PEOPLE I SAY ?!? Its actualy much like the way I thought Everquest 2 should have been made a few years back. I hear people complain its slow, it crashes, its full of bugs.... I have not had one crash and my average system runs just fine, a bit laggy but I blame my DSL for that. Its almost barren. Ive created charactors on all 3 servers and I run into so few people.... granted im stuck on newbie island. Why is this game not popular? Why are people not playing?
Because of the failstart of the game. Really not much players play it but there are only 4 servers so population on most servers excpet the PvP one is fine. The only thing that everyone must have in mind that they do not have to set graphics setting too high for their system. Balanced without AA and Mid-Low must work fine on Mid systems. Highvideo settings are recommended only for high end systems even it can run fine on most places for some mid systems. I hope after GU6 with Trial Isle it will become much popular because it really the greatest PvE game up to now with most content , freedom, beautiful world and graphics. There are nearly 100 zones - something like 8-10 zones every 5 levels, around 60 dungeons that most of them are really big - somethig like BRD or Kara in WoW.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Personally I think there are two reasons why Vanguard flopped. (I'm not actually denouncing the game, as I personally have not tried it, just saying the reasons it was not a commercial success).
One- It's disastrous launch. I remember things were so bad at one point that the official forums were closed, as there were too many people complaining.
Two- At the time, it required quite an intensive pc too run it. This has been cited as one of the nails in Vanguard's coffin.
Actually, I would have given this game a chance, as I do with most MMO's, but my pc was unable to run it after I spent two whole days downloading the 12 or 13 gig it required.
That was true when SOE first bought the game. After they realized they bought a lemon, they quickly began cutting the dev team. The Vanguard team is quite small now.
I don't think they were surprised about buying a lemon. SOE knew the game was crap but they got such a good deal they bought it anyway. It's pretty much in maintenance mode at this point...just another crappy station pass game that will never see any real content or expansions.
According to a former Vanguard dev who posted on the FoH forum, the Smed went apeshit after finding out what state Vanguard was in a while after SOE bought it. It was around the time that SOE closed the Sigil office and moved less than half the Vanguard team to their current location, and reassigned some of the former Sigil devs they kept to other projects.
Originally posted by Rekindle if you havent played this game in the last 2 months YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEAK TO ITS QUALITY, PERFORMANCE OR DEPTH ....imho
If you are considering vanguard dont read any of the alpha testers feed back - The difference between vanguard now and in beta / launch is the difference between hearing feedback on windows 3.1 beta while a bunch of us are rockin on the new vista platform. Beta testers get over yourselves - it was a whiel ago now. The events that led to Sigil's demise is water under the bridge. With so many WoW clones on the market now people really need to take a good hard look at the environment they choose to play in. Sandboxers need to give this game a shot. Also anyone whos into UO housing and a cool crafting system. As tacky as it sounds sandboxers looking for a good game owe those that came before the chance. See the thing is Brad wasn't so nuts afterall because the vision did come true...just a little late and with a different management perspective and 15 gazzion optiization fixes and a lot of hard work by devs past and present. the truth is SOE has as many devs working on Vanguard as they do on EQ2 and their doing a dam fine job. The thing is is SOE has come out and said that they cant/ wont advertise Vanguard as much as Eq2 and the rest because of population. So ultimately- you sandboxers who are looking for a new post eq1 / uo era home owe us who came before you a chance sounds tacky but the only thing ....and I mean the only thing this game is really missing and the only thing that is preventing this from being the innovation of eq1 we all desired is you.
I swear im not a viral markerter ..my god look through my posting history - i tore this game apart at launch. But getover the history lessons of the game managed by a different company and for the love of god check for yourself.
I have played Vanguard within the past 2 months and would not recommend anyone to play it, for the most part.
First of all the population is horrible, and that is a showstopper in an MMO. MMOs are not just about how many people you have IN YOUR OWN CLAN/GUILD, it's about how many people you have in the community. There are more people running around in DAoC than there are in Vanguard, and that says something seeing as how the most populated DAoC cluster barely gets over 1k players at peak times.
I'm sure VG gets more, and it is only augmented by the size of the world, but that is largely unacceptable to players who want to play an MMORPG.
This is bad twofold, because VG desperately needs players to grow and prosper. Because the population is so bad, they will have a hard time keeping new players... The same players that they need to stay to remedy the issue.
Another issue with VG is the fact that there is hardly any content added. Because of that, you have new players coming in, new players leaving, and old bored players also leaving because they have gone through all the content, and hardly anything else is being introduced to keep them occupied and retain the fun factor of the game for them. It's a double-edged sword for them.
MMORPGs are games that are supposed to be expanded and updated regularly. They are supposed to get new content to keep people playing. MMORPGs are the types of games that players should expect to make many months - years of commitment to. Vanguard is not progressing satisfactorably as an MMORPG. It's almost 2009, and they don't even have an expansion - I haven't heard of an expansion being in development for it so if you do, please post the link!
Secondly, the game has horrible performance, and the system requirements are WAY OFF. The system requirements listed on the website, and on the game box are so ambitious that I'm floored that Sigil/SOE even had the audacity to print them. My system surpasses the recommended system requirements for this game, but I only get 1-9 FPS when playing the game in desolate outdoor areas. That means that I can hardly move my character. This is on the highest performance settings in the game.
The woman in GameStop made it an issue to ask me if I was sure that my system could support the game (maybe they've had many complaints from other customers about the same issue) and I was more than confident it could. After getting home, installing this monster, and patching for many hours - I was supprised that the game had such horrible performance. My roomate's computer is better than mine and he only gets an extra 3-6 FPS over me (averaging 9 FPS or so, I'd say I average around 5).
That is sad, because this game seems to have everything going against it, and nothing really going for it IMO. If they had not botched it so bad, SOE could have easily dropped EverQuest [1] and had most of those players migrate to Vanguard because the game was designed to appeal to that same type of playerbase.
VG has some really good designs, with their classes and in combat/spell casting and other things. I wish other MMOs would allow caster classes to cast while moving like Vanguard has - that is just a feature that that game has that makes me BURN with envy whenever I play other MMOs (especially the PvP types) and realize that I have to stop to cast while melee toons can just run up behind me and attack while moving (since I can still be interrupted anyways).
But, the game sucks. Plain and simple. And yea, I've wasted money on it (2 boxes one for me and one for my roomate) within the past 2 months. Everything that the VG fanbois type on these forums trying to get people to migrate to that game is just [over]hype. Nobody cares what the game was at launch, they care what the game is right now. And at the moment, it's still broken trash for the most part.
im pretty sure if you took the average fps of most of the players playing right now there fps would be greater than 5 . I do not debate the fact that you need a good computerset up to play this game.
More accurately you need a modern set up. My set up is not fantastic but it is new. If you have a pci express system in teh duo core range then you should be able to play this game.
If you have what I realized I had a few months ago, a pc that is several years old but still plays games like eve and WoW fine....then you will likely continue to provide feed back on the game which does a great job of mispresresenting the average vanguard player's experience.
as far as the content statement goes - vanguard's beta basically lasted one year longer as in the 365 days after SOE took over its clear they were focused on optimizing and making a playable game.
The isle represnts the first of what im sure will be many enchncements to the game but i see p[ently of content ahead of me to digest - there ar ea lot of "chunks" in this game.
You could have a $4,000 computer and the game would still run like ass.
I had a friend who worked for Sigil games and was a GM. She lost her job on that infamous day and told me how things went from her point of view. According to her, Brad McQuaid disappeared over 6 months before VG even released. He had given up on the game when they lost Microsoft financing and SOE stepped in. He apparently had given up and already had his financial gaurantee from Sony so he could care less about the game. He disappeared and abandoned his entire company while he went to Tropical Islands to get wasted.
And to those who think SOE wasn't involved until Sigil went bye bye, you're wrong. SOE, the financer of the project, called all the shots and forced the early release of this game. Everyone at Sigil knew the game wasn't ready, but when you're financer says release or we pull the plug, you do what they say. There was a reason Brad disappeared, and that's because he knew he was no longer in control. I'm just pissed at him because of how he treated the employees of his own company and sold them out like he did.
Originally posted by Rekindle If you have what I realized I had a few months ago, a pc that is several years old but still plays games like eve and WoW fine....then you will likely continue to provide feed back on the game which does a great job of misprepresenting the average vanguard player's experience.
Lol...
That is an incorrect assumption. The average Vanguard's player experience is much worse than mine. Some people can't even start the game up, and can't even get enough FPS to be able to create a Character in the game. At least I was able to get that far. I am talking about the average player that has played Vanguard, you are talking about the average player that is still playing it. Do not discount those that have moved on, just because their experiences differed!
Also, the average VG players experience and kinda overstated, because more people have played and quit than there are people who play currently... That is exactly the problem with the game, too many people have issues with it, and not enough are actually playing it to give it the population it needs...
My feedback is just as Valid as the average Vanguard Player. According to the Vanguard System Requirements, any computer that can run Windows Vista with Aero Glass on should be able to run this game... Those system requirements are a lie and any game that requires me to have hardware that became mainsteam 1-2 years after it was released to play it acceptably (even though I already surpass the system requirements) is not worth the disk it't burnt on...
WAR's system requirements are very similar to Vanguard's yet it runs (for comparison). My system runs it on balanced settings with over 40 FPS (in fraps) and hardly any lag whatsoever in RvR zones.
This game was just horribly developed and optimized. That is no secret. Kudos to all the players that can afford to throw hardware at it, but there are literally dozens of other games out there that are better and run more than acceptibly on the same hardware that VG players expect you to throw in the trash and reply...
BTW, the game's performance is a huge issue, as well as its system requirements (Age of Conan almost a Vanguard clone in respect to it's SysReqs and Performance, and look where it is now).
People need to let this game die, so that hopefully something else can be developed with some of its good aspects, but not fail so bad.
And if you think they will be developing expansions for this game with the [lack of] money it is bringing in with that dismal population, I guess I'll just have to say you are very hopeful.
The trial island is SOE trying to get more players so that they can fund VG development. There is no way they they will deallocate money for EQ and EQ2 and other more sucecssful games with ALOT more subscribers to work on Vanguard... That's why it has a skeleton crew now (and I think a developer does all the art for the game, resulting in the crappy old and new character models).
another set of outdated assumptions based on the un optimized version of the game as it was 12 months ago.
OP asked why Vanguard is unpopular. The reasons why were the reasons why many people left it.
Sigil didnt go out of business because McQuaid decided to open a Pizzeria instead. The game sucked bad. I mean REALLY bad.
It could be the best thing since slice bread today but MMOs have this unique thing of really pissing people off if the company/mmo takes advantage of them in the beginning.
Take Age of Conan for example. If Funcom turned that game around and made it better, it still will not have the comeback as it should simply because of the current state of affairs it is in right now.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
the statements regarding present performance and the rest are complete crap.
the problem is there is an inordinate number of people who complain about the game here vs. those taht play and enjoy. There arent the rampant performance issues in the game that are being said. the best thing to do is form your own opinion --- really. download the trial and give it a shot.
Its just frustrating to see the game misrepresnted by people who a> do not have the current specifications to run the otpmized version of the game b> base their experience on the game as it was.
The question is Why is Vanguard un-popular ? the statements regarding present performance and the rest are complete crap. the problem is there is an inordinate number of people who complain about the game here vs. those taht play and enjoy. There arent the rampant performance issues in the game that are being said. the best thing to do is form your own opinion --- really. download the trial and give it a shot. Its just frustrating to see the game misrepresnted by people who a> do not have the current specifications to run the otpmized version of the game b> base their experience on the game as it was.
Are you f---ing dense? They told you.
I will spell it out to you like you are a child. They had their one and only shot at release and failed. They failed to bring features they said they would, the game had issues for many people and they quit. That's it.
It doesn't matter what condition the game is in today. Don't be dense and bring the point up again. They had their one shot and blew it. I won't be back because as the saying goes "fool me once, shame on you fool me twice shame on me." They do not deserve another shot. PERIOD.
Comments
It wasn't owned, developed, or created by SOE whatsoever.
When in development SOE only had publishing power...meaning they provided the financial interests in producing the DVDs and marketing them out. They also assisted with tech issues when the game came out.
You need to research this a little bit more before slamming SOE.
The negative impact SOE has on the popularity of this game has nothing to do with SOE's own involvement with the game.
A lot of potential Vanguard players were SWG players who swore never to buy anything SOE ever touched.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
It wasn't owned, developed, or created by SOE whatsoever.
When in development SOE only had publishing power...meaning they provided the financial interests in producing the DVDs and marketing them out. They also assisted with tech issues when the game came out.
You need to research this a little bit more before slamming SOE.
The negative impact SOE has on the popularity of this game has nothing to do with SOE's own involvement with the game.
A lot of potential Vanguard players were SWG players who swore never to buy anything SOE ever touched.
that i can agree with
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
SOEs involvment may be one thing but ultimately once people are burned by a bad experience it's very difficult to get them back and I hear Vanguard had a horrible launch.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
if you havent played this game in the last 2 months YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEAK TO ITS QUALITY, PERFORMANCE OR DEPTH ....imho
If you are considering vanguard dont read any of the alpha testers feed back - The difference between vanguard now and in beta / launch is the difference between hearing feedback on windows 3.1 beta while a bunch of us are rockin on the new vista platform.
Beta testers get over yourselves - it was a whiel ago now. The events that led to Sigil's demise is water under the bridge. With so many WoW clones on the market now people really need to take a good hard look at the environment they choose to play in.
Sandboxers need to give this game a shot. Also anyone whos into UO housing and a cool crafting system.
As tacky as it sounds sandboxers looking for a good game owe those that came before the chance. See the thing is Brad wasn't so nuts afterall because the vision did come true...just a little late and with a different management perspective and 15 gazzion optiization fixes and a lot of hard work by devs past and present.
the truth is SOE has as many devs working on Vanguard as they do on EQ2 and their doing a dam fine job.
The thing is is SOE has come out and said that they cant/ wont advertise Vanguard as much as Eq2 and the rest because of population.
So ultimately- you sandboxers who are looking for a new post eq1 / uo era home owe us who came before you a chance
sounds tacky but the only thing ....and I mean the only thing this game is really missing and the only thing that is preventing this from being the innovation of eq1 we all desired is you.
I swear im not a viral markerter ..my god look through my posting history - i tore this game apart at launch. But getover the history lessons of the game managed by a different company and for the love of god check for yourself.
It wasn't owned, developed, or created by SOE whatsoever.
When in development SOE only had publishing power...meaning they provided the financial interests in producing the DVDs and marketing them out. They also assisted with tech issues when the game came out.
You need to research this a little bit more before slamming SOE.
Soe didn't have much, if anything, to do with the initial problems Vanguard has. However, when it was announced soe had a limited involvement with Vanguard, that turned many people off. Same thing happened with Pirates of the Burning Sea. Now Vanguard is 100% owned by soe. I hear its certainly better than it was and its a much improved game but its still owned by soe, which means theres many people that won't play it, no matter how good it is.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
You cant blame SOE for the failure of this game.....Im surprised they bought it in the first place.....In fact if it wasnt for station access there might not be anyone playing vanguard....Like many have said the game had a horrific launch....it released probably 6 months to a year too early.....first impressions are huge in this industry and if it is very poor then the word will get around......
What a douche. Sounds like no one in the industry will trust him again, so good luck finding a new job.
Again where is the proof? you can't take someones word for it because its like chinese whispers and you need all sides of the story, people just need a scapegoat.
Also Slaved over the game? No they were being paid.
What he did in public, his own words, did not live up to the end results. Nothing to prove there.
Either accept it and live in reality or deny it to live in a fantasy.
what i think is funny is this thread is getting all kinds of loving like Vanguard hasnt got players or something.....mean while the /who command on the trial island on seradon is bringing back too many queries to display and ive seen plenty of people off the island both in the last few weeks and today on my "main".
What a douche. Sounds like no one in the industry will trust him again, so good luck finding a new job.
Again where is the proof? you can't take someones word for it because its like chinese whispers and you need all sides of the story, people just need a scapegoat.
Also Slaved over the game? No they were being paid.
There's proof all over the websites. Many directly from Brad's mouth in invterviews after the folding of Sigil. All you have to do is Google it. It isn't rumour. It's factual information. Hell, ill even make it easy for you. One interview:
f13.net: Right after the split and before the tragedy the other day, that's when people claim you started to be in the office... not quite as much. Can you explain why?
Brad McQuaid:: - I'd never really been in the private investor/VC world - and we started that process. I was in and out of the office quite a bit. Demoing the game, showing it to potential investors and putting together the documentation. All sorts of stuff you have to do for that kind of money
f13.net: So that time being out of the office was business?
Brad McQuaid: It was a bummer.
f13.net: There were three questions people really want answers to... the first being, why weren't you at the office on launch day?
Brad McQuaid: Launch day?
f13.net: Apparently they had "cake and champagne."
Brad McQuaid: In general, I had just found out about future events and what was likely or possible to occur... and it broke my heart. Emotionally, I just couldn't be sitting there celebrating and putting on a big smile when I knew the troubles we might be facing in the future
f13.net: And the next party... god, I am a fucking cynic. Why weren't you at the firing party?
Brad McQuaid: Well, this is going to sound corny but it's true. I would have broken down in tears.
f13.net: I have since discovered that SOE didn't even know it was going to go down like that. They had something else planned, something less cold. You read the interview right?
Brad McQuaid: The Long and Morbid tale one?
f13.net: Well, let me just read it back. I've now had multiple people say the same thing. It's uncanny. Not a single one of them seem to have embellished. - well basically "You're all fired, some of you may be rehired by Sony Online Entertainment" an-
Brad McQuaid: I know those people and have a great deal of respect for them, but that sounds awful cold the way you said it...
f13.net: No, you don't understand. Everyone said the same thing. I have confirmed it with no less than six people. That they used the phrase "you're all fired." On that day. In a parking lot. My big problem with this is, well, I don't know your relationship with Bill Fisher, but at this event he made a joke about his stock options buying him a new house. I don't even know how you can comment on this.
f13.net: This is something that, well, I've already got the people involved to corroborate... did the affair between April Jones and Jeff Butler actually affect anything in development?
Brad McQuaid: I'm not going to comment on their personal life.
f13.net: I'll be honest, you touched on my next question. I heard that, well, apparently it was an open secret. That's fine. Whatever. It happens in every office. But the real problem was, well, seemed to have been that - Jeff's wife still worked there. How do you... you know, never mind, it needs to come from them.
Brad McQuaid: It made it worse, that's all I'll say.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
That was true when SOE first bought the game. After they realized they bought a lemon, they quickly began cutting the dev team. The Vanguard team is quite small now.
The main reason Vanguard is un-popular is because MMOs very rarely recover from poor launches. SOE's initial involvement had a negative impact on the game, mainly because Vanguard was intended to appeal to former EQ players, and many of them are less willing to play SOE games than former SWG players. The pre-release Vanguard forums, the ones on Sigil's site, exploded with posts by former EQ players saying they were no longer interested in Vanguard due to SOE being announced as the publisher (much like the PotBS forums). It was bad enough that John Smedley, the president of SOE, made several posts saying SOE would have no involvement in the game's development (yes, the president of SOE was using the fact that his company would have no influence on the game's development as a selling point, think about that for a moment), in an attempt to calm things down. The vast majority of the folks who made such posts left Vanguard behind without looking back.
All of that was compounded by the fact that Vanguard was released in an extremely poor condition. As I said before, MMOs very rarely recover from poor launches. A prime example of that is EQ2. The fact is, there are too many choices available today for people to waste their time and money in the hopes that any MMO is going to become a good game someday in the future. They can just pick up a different game that isn't a broken mess and have fun right away. AoC is the most recent example, at least until WAR is released.
I don't think they were surprised about buying a lemon. SOE knew the game was crap but they got such a good deal they bought it anyway. It's pretty much in maintenance mode at this point...just another crappy station pass game that will never see any real content or expansions.
This
Although i really wonder why SOE dont advertise for VG. No doubt it will not have 10mil players , but at least for players waiting for DF, or wanting a non-instance game, or more group oriented game, this game will appeal to most of them...
Looking at how much SOE is trying to hype for EQ2 but didnt get any good result, i think, they should help VG and give it a chance...
RIP Orc Choppa
Because of the failstart of the game. Really not much players play it but there are only 4 servers so population on most servers excpet the PvP one is fine. The only thing that everyone must have in mind that they do not have to set graphics setting too high for their system. Balanced without AA and Mid-Low must work fine on Mid systems. Highvideo settings are recommended only for high end systems even it can run fine on most places for some mid systems. I hope after GU6 with Trial Isle it will become much popular because it really the greatest PvE game up to now with most content , freedom, beautiful world and graphics. There are nearly 100 zones - something like 8-10 zones every 5 levels, around 60 dungeons that most of them are really big - somethig like BRD or Kara in WoW.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Personally I think there are two reasons why Vanguard flopped. (I'm not actually denouncing the game, as I personally have not tried it, just saying the reasons it was not a commercial success).
One- It's disastrous launch. I remember things were so bad at one point that the official forums were closed, as there were too many people complaining.
Two- At the time, it required quite an intensive pc too run it. This has been cited as one of the nails in Vanguard's coffin.
Actually, I would have given this game a chance, as I do with most MMO's, but my pc was unable to run it after I spent two whole days downloading the 12 or 13 gig it required.
I don't think they were surprised about buying a lemon. SOE knew the game was crap but they got such a good deal they bought it anyway. It's pretty much in maintenance mode at this point...just another crappy station pass game that will never see any real content or expansions.
According to a former Vanguard dev who posted on the FoH forum, the Smed went apeshit after finding out what state Vanguard was in a while after SOE bought it. It was around the time that SOE closed the Sigil office and moved less than half the Vanguard team to their current location, and reassigned some of the former Sigil devs they kept to other projects.
First of all the population is horrible, and that is a showstopper in an MMO. MMOs are not just about how many people you have IN YOUR OWN CLAN/GUILD, it's about how many people you have in the community. There are more people running around in DAoC than there are in Vanguard, and that says something seeing as how the most populated DAoC cluster barely gets over 1k players at peak times.
I'm sure VG gets more, and it is only augmented by the size of the world, but that is largely unacceptable to players who want to play an MMORPG.
This is bad twofold, because VG desperately needs players to grow and prosper. Because the population is so bad, they will have a hard time keeping new players... The same players that they need to stay to remedy the issue.
Another issue with VG is the fact that there is hardly any content added. Because of that, you have new players coming in, new players leaving, and old bored players also leaving because they have gone through all the content, and hardly anything else is being introduced to keep them occupied and retain the fun factor of the game for them. It's a double-edged sword for them.
MMORPGs are games that are supposed to be expanded and updated regularly. They are supposed to get new content to keep people playing. MMORPGs are the types of games that players should expect to make many months - years of commitment to. Vanguard is not progressing satisfactorably as an MMORPG. It's almost 2009, and they don't even have an expansion - I haven't heard of an expansion being in development for it so if you do, please post the link!
Secondly, the game has horrible performance, and the system requirements are WAY OFF. The system requirements listed on the website, and on the game box are so ambitious that I'm floored that Sigil/SOE even had the audacity to print them. My system surpasses the recommended system requirements for this game, but I only get 1-9 FPS when playing the game in desolate outdoor areas. That means that I can hardly move my character. This is on the highest performance settings in the game.
The woman in GameStop made it an issue to ask me if I was sure that my system could support the game (maybe they've had many complaints from other customers about the same issue) and I was more than confident it could. After getting home, installing this monster, and patching for many hours - I was supprised that the game had such horrible performance. My roomate's computer is better than mine and he only gets an extra 3-6 FPS over me (averaging 9 FPS or so, I'd say I average around 5).
That is sad, because this game seems to have everything going against it, and nothing really going for it IMO. If they had not botched it so bad, SOE could have easily dropped EverQuest [1] and had most of those players migrate to Vanguard because the game was designed to appeal to that same type of playerbase.
VG has some really good designs, with their classes and in combat/spell casting and other things. I wish other MMOs would allow caster classes to cast while moving like Vanguard has - that is just a feature that that game has that makes me BURN with envy whenever I play other MMOs (especially the PvP types) and realize that I have to stop to cast while melee toons can just run up behind me and attack while moving (since I can still be interrupted anyways).
But, the game sucks. Plain and simple. And yea, I've wasted money on it (2 boxes one for me and one for my roomate) within the past 2 months. Everything that the VG fanbois type on these forums trying to get people to migrate to that game is just [over]hype. Nobody cares what the game was at launch, they care what the game is right now. And at the moment, it's still broken trash for the most part.
Games should be less frustrating, and more fun.
im pretty sure if you took the average fps of most of the players playing right now there fps would be greater than 5 . I do not debate the fact that you need a good computerset up to play this game.
More accurately you need a modern set up. My set up is not fantastic but it is new. If you have a pci express system in teh duo core range then you should be able to play this game.
If you have what I realized I had a few months ago, a pc that is several years old but still plays games like eve and WoW fine....then you will likely continue to provide feed back on the game which does a great job of mispresresenting the average vanguard player's experience.
as far as the content statement goes - vanguard's beta basically lasted one year longer as in the 365 days after SOE took over its clear they were focused on optimizing and making a playable game.
The isle represnts the first of what im sure will be many enchncements to the game but i see p[ently of content ahead of me to digest - there ar ea lot of "chunks" in this game.
Here's half the reason it flopped:
You could have a $4,000 computer and the game would still run like ass.
I had a friend who worked for Sigil games and was a GM. She lost her job on that infamous day and told me how things went from her point of view. According to her, Brad McQuaid disappeared over 6 months before VG even released. He had given up on the game when they lost Microsoft financing and SOE stepped in. He apparently had given up and already had his financial gaurantee from Sony so he could care less about the game. He disappeared and abandoned his entire company while he went to Tropical Islands to get wasted.
And to those who think SOE wasn't involved until Sigil went bye bye, you're wrong. SOE, the financer of the project, called all the shots and forced the early release of this game. Everyone at Sigil knew the game wasn't ready, but when you're financer says release or we pull the plug, you do what they say. There was a reason Brad disappeared, and that's because he knew he was no longer in control. I'm just pissed at him because of how he treated the employees of his own company and sold them out like he did.
That is an incorrect assumption. The average Vanguard's player experience is much worse than mine. Some people can't even start the game up, and can't even get enough FPS to be able to create a Character in the game. At least I was able to get that far. I am talking about the average player that has played Vanguard, you are talking about the average player that is still playing it. Do not discount those that have moved on, just because their experiences differed!
Also, the average VG players experience and kinda overstated, because more people have played and quit than there are people who play currently... That is exactly the problem with the game, too many people have issues with it, and not enough are actually playing it to give it the population it needs...
My feedback is just as Valid as the average Vanguard Player. According to the Vanguard System Requirements, any computer that can run Windows Vista with Aero Glass on should be able to run this game... Those system requirements are a lie and any game that requires me to have hardware that became mainsteam 1-2 years after it was released to play it acceptably (even though I already surpass the system requirements) is not worth the disk it't burnt on...
WAR's system requirements are very similar to Vanguard's yet it runs (for comparison). My system runs it on balanced settings with over 40 FPS (in fraps) and hardly any lag whatsoever in RvR zones.
This game was just horribly developed and optimized. That is no secret. Kudos to all the players that can afford to throw hardware at it, but there are literally dozens of other games out there that are better and run more than acceptibly on the same hardware that VG players expect you to throw in the trash and reply...
BTW, the game's performance is a huge issue, as well as its system requirements (Age of Conan almost a Vanguard clone in respect to it's SysReqs and Performance, and look where it is now).
People need to let this game die, so that hopefully something else can be developed with some of its good aspects, but not fail so bad.
And if you think they will be developing expansions for this game with the [lack of] money it is bringing in with that dismal population, I guess I'll just have to say you are very hopeful.
The trial island is SOE trying to get more players so that they can fund VG development. There is no way they they will deallocate money for EQ and EQ2 and other more sucecssful games with ALOT more subscribers to work on Vanguard... That's why it has a skeleton crew now (and I think a developer does all the art for the game, resulting in the crappy old and new character models).
another set of outdated assumptions based on the un optimized version of the game as it was 12 months ago.
OP asked why Vanguard is unpopular. The reasons why were the reasons why many people left it.
Sigil didnt go out of business because McQuaid decided to open a Pizzeria instead. The game sucked bad. I mean REALLY bad.
It could be the best thing since slice bread today but MMOs have this unique thing of really pissing people off if the company/mmo takes advantage of them in the beginning.
Take Age of Conan for example. If Funcom turned that game around and made it better, it still will not have the comeback as it should simply because of the current state of affairs it is in right now.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
The question is Why is Vanguard un-popular ?
the statements regarding present performance and the rest are complete crap.
the problem is there is an inordinate number of people who complain about the game here vs. those taht play and enjoy. There arent the rampant performance issues in the game that are being said. the best thing to do is form your own opinion --- really. download the trial and give it a shot.
Its just frustrating to see the game misrepresnted by people who a> do not have the current specifications to run the otpmized version of the game b> base their experience on the game as it was.
Are you f---ing dense? They told you.
I will spell it out to you like you are a child. They had their one and only shot at release and failed. They failed to bring features they said they would, the game had issues for many people and they quit. That's it.
It doesn't matter what condition the game is in today. Don't be dense and bring the point up again. They had their one shot and blew it. I won't be back because as the saying goes "fool me once, shame on you fool me twice shame on me." They do not deserve another shot. PERIOD.