Seems like everyone is telling different stories, even they were all beta tester. In this thread they talk about the DOK which is called here as one of the most overpowered class 1v1, well in this thread the class is called as the weakest ingame. really strange that the opinions are so different
I think the conflicting opinions could be explained away by player ability.
I can't get the hang of playing a WP. I die a lot, heal for nothing, and can't kill a wet noodle. However, I've seen WPs tearing through opposition and having higher healing output than my RP in scenarios.
But the messages about the DOK class are so different, one tells you they are great in one vs one situations and the other "expirienced elder player" tells you they got patched to weakness. When you read both threads you will see it is about possibilities - which has changed/patched ? - and not about gameplay skill
I agree, however it seems that some people aren't graspoing what you're saying here. Allow me to simplify it
1v1: DoK and WP. (that's and, not versus. He's not talking about the pair fighting eachother, but fighting other classes)
Sorry, just had to clear that up
Unfortunately he did not specificy the tier. So its crap.
I 1v1 a DoK with my SM at level 11 (both of us 11). We fought for a long time probably like 2 minutes. Neither could kill the other but I got him down to 30% 3 times. Then he healed up to full. Eventually I hit 50% hp and decided to cut out. Snared him and left.
Now what was causing him to heal to full? Well go to Wardb and look at the level 8 morale abilty. Yes its a huge heal.
Now goto to wardb and look at SM abilities. What do they get at level 12? A good attack that takes away morale ...
So what happened at lvl 11 would possibly change dramatically at level 12. Quite possibly I could have reduced his morale enough to have taken him down the last bit of his life. Instead of getting stymied.
If I had sapping strike and break enchantment. Which steal AP and take away HoT spells. Now what do you think would happen?
I am not saying a SM will always destroy a DoK. But clearly those thre abilities can vastly reduce their survivability. And unless they get serious armor penetration and the ability to go through blocking/parrying, they will not have reduced mine by that much.
It is quite simple. DoK and WP get the most important part of their tactical ability early. They can heal and damage. The other classes do not counter those until later.
Same thing is true of sorcesses. They get a root early. Melee DPS and tanks do not get a counter to that until T2. In the case of tanks late t2 at 18.
I agree, however it seems that some people aren't graspoing what you're saying here. Allow me to simplify it
1v1: DoK and WP. (that's and, not versus. He's not talking about the pair fighting eachother, but fighting other classes)
Sorry, just had to clear that up
Unfortunately he did not specificy the tier. So its crap.
I 1v1 a DoK with my SM at level 11 (both of us 11). We fought for a long time probably like 2 minutes. Neither could kill the other but I got him down to 30% 3 times. Then he healed up to full. Eventually I hit 50% hp and decided to cut out. Snared him and left.
Now what was causing him to heal to full? Well go to Wardb and look at the level 8 morale abilty. Yes its a huge heal.
Now goto to wardb and look at SM abilities. What do they get at level 12? A good attack that takes away morale ...
So what happened at lvl 11 would possibly change dramatically at level 12. Quite possibly I could have reduced his morale enough to have taken him down the last bit of his life. Instead of getting stymied.
If I had sapping strike and break enchantment. Which steal AP and take away HoT spells. Now what do you think would happen?
I am not saying a SM will always destroy a DoK. But clearly those thre abilities can vastly reduce their survivability. And unless they get serious armor penetration and the ability to go through blocking/parrying, they will not have reduced mine by that much.
It is quite simple. DoK and WP get the most important part of their tactical ability early. They can heal and damage. The other classes do not counter those until later.
Same thing is true of sorcesses. They get a root early. Melee DPS and tanks do not get a counter to that until T2. In the case of tanks late t2 at 18.
lol
What is wrong with you?
Your post has nothing to do with what you quoted.
I expressed no opinion whatsoever. I simply rephrased what the OP said to make it easier for you to understand.
If you want to be a forum warrior, practice first :P
Speaking from the point of vew of a healer/dps (playing shaman) its the ranged dpsers that tear me to shreds. The amount of times I've come up against a wall of witch hunters and been blasted limb from limb. I'm not sure what the tank situation is like on other servers but destro is missing 'em on my realm. You feel so squishy when dps can freely run upto you and start bashing away. The one or two that are present seem to get mistaken with WoW warriors - just charging in without any form of back up. But anywho, I digress. But yeah my vote goes to witch-hunter for most feared class in senarios.
The game uses a rock, paper, scissors formula so of course a witch hunter (and witch elf) will be most devastating to a caster. However, Chosen bring a little more to the table. All chosen are hard to take down, whether they have a sword and board or are rocking the two hander.
The reason why I list them overpowered is not because they are the best tanks in the game. In my opinion Ironbreakers are the best tanks due to their many interrupts, push backs, and amazing survivability (at the cost of low dps compared to other tanks.) No, the reason why Chosen are the most overpowered class in the game is because of the Discord tree.
The Discord tree is the Chosen's Magic spec. Many people do not even think about a Chosen doing magic damage and being effect, but it really makes them dominate in scenarios. Sure, they do not have the dps of witch elves and witch hunters, but they follow close behind and they MORE then make up for it with their survivability. This, in the long run, gives Chosen the potential to always top the damage and kill charts.
Honestly, I see it being nerfed in the future.
Seriously. Tell us where you live so we can call the men in suits to come put you away. You're insane. Just insane.
Chosen Overpowered? ROFLMAO. I play a Chosen (and will play him to 40) - we are NOT overpowered. When you cannot solo a single class, you arent overpowered. WH can obliterate a cloth wearer with little to no troubles, BW can obliterate ANYTHING, use a root that hardly breaks to get away, and slap on a really good DoT on folks with no cast time. Dwarves are Dwarves, and those Ironbreakers are just fucking terrifying.
No, Chosen are NOT overpowered. I spec Discord, and I'm not OP in the least. Does my primary strike do Spirit damage? Yes. Does it matter? No. I simply dont do enough to put down any class that can heal, nukers can run off after rooting me, and tanks NEVER charge without a healer.
The only class we do fairly well against is a WH, and thats a very close fight. Level 13 against a 14 WH, and I walked away with 200 HP in a 1v1 battle.
The reason Chosen are so UNDERpowered is because Mythic assumed that since we can twist Auras, we are these godlike self buffers/debuffers that can become "super soldiers" while charging in. You cannot do that and expect to have any AP left over to attack with.
Our DoT (which is Discord line) doesnt output nearly enough damage, and frankly, its better to throw another primary strike than put that DoT down. Maybe use Tooth or another application of the Snare (I love using that snare whenever it refreshes.)
This is coming from an axe and shield Chosen. I decided not to go Defense line because that isnt my play style. Still, I get Hold The Line (which doesnt work as often as it should), and a nice Level 2 Morale ability that makes my block rate 100% for 10 seconds.
Maybe Chosen with two-handers are dangerous, but I'm not. The only thing I can do is snare a caster while they are being ganked, and add in just a little bit of damage in there. That's why I'm the guy using the Ballista in Scenarios - Chosen cant keep up with more than one BW/Ironbreaker/Swordmaster/Anything.
(Note - I do get kills, but rarely in 1v1. Mostly I can handle Witchhunters and those Elves with the pets, whatever they are called. Also, I dont "suck" with the class, they just arent meant to kick ass, I guess.)
Are we hard to kill? No. Nukes bring us down, and focusing on full Armor and Toughness, I can say that two or more melee classes bring us down.
If anything, Chosen need to get a buff to compensate for their poor "lukewarm" role. We cant tank FULLY, like an Ironbreaker, we cant do weird shit like a Swordmaster, we are just sort of.. there.
Speaking from the point of vew of a healer/dps (playing shaman) its the ranged dpsers that tear me to shreds. The amount of times I've come up against a wall of witch hunters and been blasted limb from limb. I'm not sure what the tank situation is like on other servers but destro is missing 'em on my realm. You feel so squishy when dps can freely run upto you and start bashing away. The one or two that are present seem to get mistaken with WoW warriors - just charging in without any form of back up. But anywho, I digress. But yeah my vote goes to witch-hunter for most feared class in senarios.
The game uses a rock, paper, scissors formula so of course a witch hunter (and witch elf) will be most devastating to a caster. However, Chosen bring a little more to the table. All chosen are hard to take down, whether they have a sword and board or are rocking the two hander.
The reason why I list them overpowered is not because they are the best tanks in the game. In my opinion Ironbreakers are the best tanks due to their many interrupts, push backs, and amazing survivability (at the cost of low dps compared to other tanks.) No, the reason why Chosen are the most overpowered class in the game is because of the Discord tree.
The Discord tree is the Chosen's Magic spec. Many people do not even think about a Chosen doing magic damage and being effect, but it really makes them dominate in scenarios. Sure, they do not have the dps of witch elves and witch hunters, but they follow close behind and they MORE then make up for it with their survivability. This, in the long run, gives Chosen the potential to always top the damage and kill charts.
Honestly, I see it being nerfed in the future.
Nerfed? Are you serious lol? Unless your an elder tester or talked to an elder tester you have no clue about spec builds yet. Also I have talked to multiple elder testers and all of them pretty much agree on one thing. Chosen are powerfull late tier1 and tier2. Starting in tier3 they seem to fall off. Tier4 they are one of the weakest classes. Of course everyones opinion will differ. But to be calling for or even thinking about nerfs this early is terrible. If we are going to call nerf this early I say nerf the healers. At least in tier1 they are a major pain in the ass to kill and you simply WONT kill them in tier1 unless they suck or you get 3+ people on them. Tier 2 they seem alittle easier to kill though so nah, dont nerf them. Hell dont nerf any classes till people start hitting 40 and only if one class is glaringly overpowered.
Actually, half my guild consist of Eldar testers and they all agree with me. Yea, I should have waited till people were hitting end game to make my post. But, I still believe that Chosen will end up the way they were right before closed beta ended, and that is dominating in the right setup. I forget the name of the it, but on warhammermovies.com there is a video of a shaman and a chosen duo completely destroying groups just because the chosen's damaging auras and the shamans healing.
I'm double-posting, but what damaging aura are you talking about? The only auras I recall doing damage are the one where casters take minor damage from nuking you or your allies, and another which isnt an aura, but rather an effect that does damage based on movement.
If we have a pulsing-damage aura, let me know. I'm getting that. Its just what we need.
I agree, however it seems that some people aren't graspoing what you're saying here. Allow me to simplify it
1v1: DoK and WP. (that's and, not versus. He's not talking about the pair fighting eachother, but fighting other classes)
Sorry, just had to clear that up
Unfortunately he did not specificy the tier. So its crap.
I 1v1 a DoK with my SM at level 11 (both of us 11). We fought for a long time probably like 2 minutes. Neither could kill the other but I got him down to 30% 3 times. Then he healed up to full. Eventually I hit 50% hp and decided to cut out. Snared him and left.
Now what was causing him to heal to full? Well go to Wardb and look at the level 8 morale abilty. Yes its a huge heal.
Now goto to wardb and look at SM abilities. What do they get at level 12? A good attack that takes away morale ...
So what happened at lvl 11 would possibly change dramatically at level 12. Quite possibly I could have reduced his morale enough to have taken him down the last bit of his life. Instead of getting stymied.
If I had sapping strike and break enchantment. Which steal AP and take away HoT spells. Now what do you think would happen?
I am not saying a SM will always destroy a DoK. But clearly those thre abilities can vastly reduce their survivability. And unless they get serious armor penetration and the ability to go through blocking/parrying, they will not have reduced mine by that much.
It is quite simple. DoK and WP get the most important part of their tactical ability early. They can heal and damage. The other classes do not counter those until later.
Same thing is true of sorcesses. They get a root early. Melee DPS and tanks do not get a counter to that until T2. In the case of tanks late t2 at 18.
lol
What is wrong with you?
Your post has nothing to do with what you quoted.
I expressed no opinion whatsoever. I simply rephrased what the OP said to make it easier for you to understand.
If you want to be a forum warrior, practice first :P
You explained what he means. I explained why what he means is flawed when taken in the broader context.
There is no forum warrioring going. It is all in your head.
Comments
I think the conflicting opinions could be explained away by player ability.
I can't get the hang of playing a WP. I die a lot, heal for nothing, and can't kill a wet noodle. However, I've seen WPs tearing through opposition and having higher healing output than my RP in scenarios.
But the messages about the DOK class are so different, one tells you they are great in one vs one situations and the other "expirienced elder player" tells you they got patched to weakness. When you read both threads you will see it is about possibilities - which has changed/patched ? - and not about gameplay skill
ROFLMAO and they use EB Games to trap me into a 10,000K Dmg AoE.
Game Stop and EB Games used to be seperate companies, but Game Stop bought out EB Games. Not that this has any relevance to the OP...
I agree, however it seems that some people aren't graspoing what you're saying here. Allow me to simplify it
1v1: DoK and WP. (that's and, not versus. He's not talking about the pair fighting eachother, but fighting other classes)
Sorry, just had to clear that up
Unfortunately he did not specificy the tier. So its crap.
I 1v1 a DoK with my SM at level 11 (both of us 11). We fought for a long time probably like 2 minutes. Neither could kill the other but I got him down to 30% 3 times. Then he healed up to full. Eventually I hit 50% hp and decided to cut out. Snared him and left.
Now what was causing him to heal to full? Well go to Wardb and look at the level 8 morale abilty. Yes its a huge heal.
Now goto to wardb and look at SM abilities. What do they get at level 12? A good attack that takes away morale ...
So what happened at lvl 11 would possibly change dramatically at level 12. Quite possibly I could have reduced his morale enough to have taken him down the last bit of his life. Instead of getting stymied.
If I had sapping strike and break enchantment. Which steal AP and take away HoT spells. Now what do you think would happen?
I am not saying a SM will always destroy a DoK. But clearly those thre abilities can vastly reduce their survivability. And unless they get serious armor penetration and the ability to go through blocking/parrying, they will not have reduced mine by that much.
It is quite simple. DoK and WP get the most important part of their tactical ability early. They can heal and damage. The other classes do not counter those until later.
Same thing is true of sorcesses. They get a root early. Melee DPS and tanks do not get a counter to that until T2. In the case of tanks late t2 at 18.
I agree, however it seems that some people aren't graspoing what you're saying here. Allow me to simplify it
1v1: DoK and WP. (that's and, not versus. He's not talking about the pair fighting eachother, but fighting other classes)
Sorry, just had to clear that up
Unfortunately he did not specificy the tier. So its crap.
I 1v1 a DoK with my SM at level 11 (both of us 11). We fought for a long time probably like 2 minutes. Neither could kill the other but I got him down to 30% 3 times. Then he healed up to full. Eventually I hit 50% hp and decided to cut out. Snared him and left.
Now what was causing him to heal to full? Well go to Wardb and look at the level 8 morale abilty. Yes its a huge heal.
Now goto to wardb and look at SM abilities. What do they get at level 12? A good attack that takes away morale ...
So what happened at lvl 11 would possibly change dramatically at level 12. Quite possibly I could have reduced his morale enough to have taken him down the last bit of his life. Instead of getting stymied.
If I had sapping strike and break enchantment. Which steal AP and take away HoT spells. Now what do you think would happen?
I am not saying a SM will always destroy a DoK. But clearly those thre abilities can vastly reduce their survivability. And unless they get serious armor penetration and the ability to go through blocking/parrying, they will not have reduced mine by that much.
It is quite simple. DoK and WP get the most important part of their tactical ability early. They can heal and damage. The other classes do not counter those until later.
Same thing is true of sorcesses. They get a root early. Melee DPS and tanks do not get a counter to that until T2. In the case of tanks late t2 at 18.
lol
What is wrong with you?
Your post has nothing to do with what you quoted.
I expressed no opinion whatsoever. I simply rephrased what the OP said to make it easier for you to understand.
If you want to be a forum warrior, practice first :P
The game uses a rock, paper, scissors formula so of course a witch hunter (and witch elf) will be most devastating to a caster. However, Chosen bring a little more to the table. All chosen are hard to take down, whether they have a sword and board or are rocking the two hander.
The reason why I list them overpowered is not because they are the best tanks in the game. In my opinion Ironbreakers are the best tanks due to their many interrupts, push backs, and amazing survivability (at the cost of low dps compared to other tanks.) No, the reason why Chosen are the most overpowered class in the game is because of the Discord tree.
The Discord tree is the Chosen's Magic spec. Many people do not even think about a Chosen doing magic damage and being effect, but it really makes them dominate in scenarios. Sure, they do not have the dps of witch elves and witch hunters, but they follow close behind and they MORE then make up for it with their survivability. This, in the long run, gives Chosen the potential to always top the damage and kill charts.
Honestly, I see it being nerfed in the future.
Seriously. Tell us where you live so we can call the men in suits to come put you away. You're insane. Just insane.
Chosen Overpowered? ROFLMAO. I play a Chosen (and will play him to 40) - we are NOT overpowered. When you cannot solo a single class, you arent overpowered. WH can obliterate a cloth wearer with little to no troubles, BW can obliterate ANYTHING, use a root that hardly breaks to get away, and slap on a really good DoT on folks with no cast time. Dwarves are Dwarves, and those Ironbreakers are just fucking terrifying.
No, Chosen are NOT overpowered. I spec Discord, and I'm not OP in the least. Does my primary strike do Spirit damage? Yes. Does it matter? No. I simply dont do enough to put down any class that can heal, nukers can run off after rooting me, and tanks NEVER charge without a healer.
The only class we do fairly well against is a WH, and thats a very close fight. Level 13 against a 14 WH, and I walked away with 200 HP in a 1v1 battle.
The reason Chosen are so UNDERpowered is because Mythic assumed that since we can twist Auras, we are these godlike self buffers/debuffers that can become "super soldiers" while charging in. You cannot do that and expect to have any AP left over to attack with.
Our DoT (which is Discord line) doesnt output nearly enough damage, and frankly, its better to throw another primary strike than put that DoT down. Maybe use Tooth or another application of the Snare (I love using that snare whenever it refreshes.)
This is coming from an axe and shield Chosen. I decided not to go Defense line because that isnt my play style. Still, I get Hold The Line (which doesnt work as often as it should), and a nice Level 2 Morale ability that makes my block rate 100% for 10 seconds.
Maybe Chosen with two-handers are dangerous, but I'm not. The only thing I can do is snare a caster while they are being ganked, and add in just a little bit of damage in there. That's why I'm the guy using the Ballista in Scenarios - Chosen cant keep up with more than one BW/Ironbreaker/Swordmaster/Anything.
(Note - I do get kills, but rarely in 1v1. Mostly I can handle Witchhunters and those Elves with the pets, whatever they are called. Also, I dont "suck" with the class, they just arent meant to kick ass, I guess.)
Are we hard to kill? No. Nukes bring us down, and focusing on full Armor and Toughness, I can say that two or more melee classes bring us down.
If anything, Chosen need to get a buff to compensate for their poor "lukewarm" role. We cant tank FULLY, like an Ironbreaker, we cant do weird shit like a Swordmaster, we are just sort of.. there.
(We still look cooler than any other class
)
The game uses a rock, paper, scissors formula so of course a witch hunter (and witch elf) will be most devastating to a caster. However, Chosen bring a little more to the table. All chosen are hard to take down, whether they have a sword and board or are rocking the two hander.
The reason why I list them overpowered is not because they are the best tanks in the game. In my opinion Ironbreakers are the best tanks due to their many interrupts, push backs, and amazing survivability (at the cost of low dps compared to other tanks.) No, the reason why Chosen are the most overpowered class in the game is because of the Discord tree.
The Discord tree is the Chosen's Magic spec. Many people do not even think about a Chosen doing magic damage and being effect, but it really makes them dominate in scenarios. Sure, they do not have the dps of witch elves and witch hunters, but they follow close behind and they MORE then make up for it with their survivability. This, in the long run, gives Chosen the potential to always top the damage and kill charts.
Honestly, I see it being nerfed in the future.
Nerfed? Are you serious lol? Unless your an elder tester or talked to an elder tester you have no clue about spec builds yet. Also I have talked to multiple elder testers and all of them pretty much agree on one thing. Chosen are powerfull late tier1 and tier2. Starting in tier3 they seem to fall off. Tier4 they are one of the weakest classes. Of course everyones opinion will differ. But to be calling for or even thinking about nerfs this early is terrible. If we are going to call nerf this early I say nerf the healers. At least in tier1 they are a major pain in the ass to kill and you simply WONT kill them in tier1 unless they suck or you get 3+ people on them. Tier 2 they seem alittle easier to kill though so nah, dont nerf them. Hell dont nerf any classes till people start hitting 40 and only if one class is glaringly overpowered.
Actually, half my guild consist of Eldar testers and they all agree with me. Yea, I should have waited till people were hitting end game to make my post. But, I still believe that Chosen will end up the way they were right before closed beta ended, and that is dominating in the right setup. I forget the name of the it, but on warhammermovies.com there is a video of a shaman and a chosen duo completely destroying groups just because the chosen's damaging auras and the shamans healing.
I'm double-posting, but what damaging aura are you talking about? The only auras I recall doing damage are the one where casters take minor damage from nuking you or your allies, and another which isnt an aura, but rather an effect that does damage based on movement.
If we have a pulsing-damage aura, let me know. I'm getting that. Its just what we need.
Good thing there's no Arenas in Warhammer.
/endthread
I agree, however it seems that some people aren't graspoing what you're saying here. Allow me to simplify it
1v1: DoK and WP. (that's and, not versus. He's not talking about the pair fighting eachother, but fighting other classes)
Sorry, just had to clear that up
Unfortunately he did not specificy the tier. So its crap.
I 1v1 a DoK with my SM at level 11 (both of us 11). We fought for a long time probably like 2 minutes. Neither could kill the other but I got him down to 30% 3 times. Then he healed up to full. Eventually I hit 50% hp and decided to cut out. Snared him and left.
Now what was causing him to heal to full? Well go to Wardb and look at the level 8 morale abilty. Yes its a huge heal.
Now goto to wardb and look at SM abilities. What do they get at level 12? A good attack that takes away morale ...
So what happened at lvl 11 would possibly change dramatically at level 12. Quite possibly I could have reduced his morale enough to have taken him down the last bit of his life. Instead of getting stymied.
If I had sapping strike and break enchantment. Which steal AP and take away HoT spells. Now what do you think would happen?
I am not saying a SM will always destroy a DoK. But clearly those thre abilities can vastly reduce their survivability. And unless they get serious armor penetration and the ability to go through blocking/parrying, they will not have reduced mine by that much.
It is quite simple. DoK and WP get the most important part of their tactical ability early. They can heal and damage. The other classes do not counter those until later.
Same thing is true of sorcesses. They get a root early. Melee DPS and tanks do not get a counter to that until T2. In the case of tanks late t2 at 18.
lol
What is wrong with you?
Your post has nothing to do with what you quoted.
I expressed no opinion whatsoever. I simply rephrased what the OP said to make it easier for you to understand.
If you want to be a forum warrior, practice first :P
You explained what he means. I explained why what he means is flawed when taken in the broader context.
There is no forum warrioring going. It is all in your head.