Honey, I murdered the economy!

Vetarnias

Rusty and Isildur discuss PotBS here, in which Isildur admits that by introducing insurance he has killed the economy.  And other gems of wisdom:

http://www.massively.com/2008/09/16/dragon-con-2008-flying-lab-software-on-pirates/

Many thanks to Johnnyjet for bringing this to our attention.

Kaiserjager

Originally posted by Vetarnias


Rusty and Isildur discuss PotBS here, in which Isildur admits that by introducing insurance he has killed the economy.  And other gems of wisdom:
http://www.massively.com/2008/09/16/dragon-con-2008-flying-lab-software-on-pirates/
Many thanks to Johnnyjet for bringing this to our attention.

 

That was one long and rather tiresom interview in my opinion.

I am honestly under the impression that the developers lack the basic understanding of their jobs. Take for example the pearl of wisdom of how one trader doesn't like to be ganked by six pirates. You don't say, fascinating.

If I am not badly mistaken the new plan for POTBS is WoW style PvP with ships and that is about it. The armory equivalent, supernatural content, scrapping of economy etc. It sort of reminds me of NGE twist with SWG, with a major difference being the fact that POTBS never functioned well.

Rommie10-284

I think, from this game and WAR, that companies will/should start looking at betas in a different light.  The conventional wisdom has been that Beta players are not a representative sample of the playerbase, so you have to take their "wisdom" with a grain of salt.

But for the past two major game releases, this one and WAR's, the concerns given by the beta players have been spot-on for release.  Both games ignored/dismissed those concerns and are now paying for it - Pirates big-time and WAR on the way (a 2-sided PvP game where the numbers aren't close to equal) if they don't act.

I think these games have enough history behind them that the people who beta have spread out among the general population, and they *are* representative samples now.  If they tell you that X isn't going to go well at release, it's time to listen, not ignore them because things "will go differently with more players"

 

 

Vetarnias

Originally posted by Rommie10-284


I think, from this game and WAR, that companies will/should start looking at betas in a different light.  The conventional wisdom has been that Beta players are not a representative sample of the playerbase, so you have to take their "wisdom" with a grain of salt.
But for the past two major game releases, this one and WAR's, the concerns given by the beta players have been spot-on for release.  Both games ignored/dismissed those concerns and are now paying for it - Pirates big-time and WAR on the way (a 2-sided PvP game where the numbers aren't close to equal) if they don't act.
I think these games have enough history behind them that the people who beta have spread out among the general population, and they *are* representative samples now.  If they tell you that X isn't going to go well at release, it's time to listen, not ignore them because things "will go differently with more players"

This is a very good point, but in the case of PotBS the mistake the developers did in beta (I wasn't in it, so I'm forced to rely on second-hand evidence) was not that they didn't listen to their beta players, but that they listened to the wrong group, which ended up advocating "no crying in the red circle".  But that's old history now.

I tend to think, however, that beta players are not your average player.  When I saw Warhammer Online go into "guild beta" I knew exactly which type of player they wanted to have -- those "elite gamers" who belonged to near-professional guilds playing almost every new release.  Darkfall, if it releases this year as promised, was, if I recall correctly, looking for the exact same people for its own beta.  If you're a casual player, you're not expected to fit into the game (which doesn't bode well for Darkfall); Warhammer, for all its faults, didn't have that problem, considering that guilds are essentially powerless (as in PotBS).  But by putting the emphasis on PvP-heavy guilds, they have perhaps led to putting PvE and the economy (which is just completely absent) on the backseat.

I understand that those non-disclosure agreements are meant to be taken seriously, but those beta application forms ask more information of you than if you were trying to apply to the secret service, including your entire gaming history aside from real essentials like a copy of your dxdiag.  If your entire MMO experience has been World of Warcraft, what are the chances of you making it in?  They probably hate you before they've even known you.

To go back to your discussion, however, concerns of beta players should be paid attention to, especially those who are critical of the game.  The fact that they don't like certain elements of your game does not mean that they want to drag it into a different direction than what you wanted to do.  Sure there are players who won't be satisfied until you make the game a carbon copy of UO/WoW/EVE, whatever.  But there are many who just want your game to succeed as you have intended it to be but they can't feel they can't rubberstamp everything you do.  They probably are the most helpful beta testers around.

AgtSmith

Originally posted by Vetarnias 
in the case of PotBS the mistake the developers did in beta (I wasn't in it, so I'm forced to rely on second-hand evidence) was not that they didn't listen to their beta players, but that they listened to the wrong group, which ended up advocating "no crying in the red circle".  But that's old history now.

 

Spot on true.  I was in closed beta and me and others brought up all the issues that are now widely known to be the games shortcomings and we where just shouted down by a few hardcore fanboy types who had FLS' ear.  It was easy to see that in live there where many choices that would never fly btu they just wouldn't listen.

grimboj

Word of mouth is the strongest form of marketing by a long way. WoW, EVE etc. are all successful because of word of mouth. WAR isn't that good but some good beta reviews lifted the pre-order volumes dramatically.