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opinions can be wrong
damian7
Member Posts: 4,449
ok, time to dispel a common myth on this site -- opinions CAN be wrong. everyone will have an opinion and that does not mean that because it's "their experience" that the opinion is, by definition, correct.
a man has never eaten steak before. he goes to a restaurant and orders steak. for whatever reason, the raw steak is spoiled and rancid. the chef cooks it and the man eats it. he thinks it is horrid and gets sick. from his experience/in his opinion -- steak is horrible.
a LOT of the "opinions" that get defended as "oh it's my opinion, how can you tell me what i think? how can you tell me i'm wrong." are exactly like the above example -- completely subjective based upon a very tiny sampling.
so, i'm sorry, but YES, your opinion can be completely offbase and incorrect, and if someone presents factual information to disprove your "opinion"; then, welcome to the world where incorrect opinions DO get corrected... this ain't yo mama's basement no mo.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Comments
This kind of reasoning is not allowed here. . .you should be ashamed of yourself.
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You wouldn't understand
Sweeping generalizations can be wrong.
Opinions supported by fact/experience are never wrong.
thanks for proving my point. an opinion supported by FACT, would be likely correct. an opinion supported by EXPERIENCE is exactly my given example of the man eating the bad steak.
sorta like, "oh i keep dying on my toon, XYZ classes are overpowered. when the truth of the matter is that the person whining is just horrible at pvp." his experience is that everyone kicks his ass, so those classes must be overpowered, when in fact, he may be playing the overpowered class and he just sucks.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
opinion – noun
- a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
Heh, I love you people... opinions are never wrong. Opinions are based on personal feelings about something, not necessarily facts. So in essence, everyones opinion is correct, for themselves, and really that is all that matters...
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"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
If even one person in the entire world likes it...it's an opinion.
this thread is made of fail and that's my GOD DAMN OPINION!
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Meow
thanks for proving my point. an opinion supported by FACT, would be likely correct. an opinion supported by EXPERIENCE is exactly my given example of the man eating the bad steak.
sorta like, "oh i keep dying on my toon, XYZ classes are overpowered. when the truth of the matter is that the person whining is just horrible at pvp." his experience is that everyone kicks his ass, so those classes must be overpowered, when in fact, he may be playing the overpowered class and he just sucks.
LOL.
So now opinions are only valid if they have facts to support them? HAHA you gotta be kidding me, that is the exact opposite of what an opinion is.
An opinion is an opinion because it is what the person thinks, not what is proven or not proven. For your example above, it might just be your opinion that he is horrible at PvP because you play one of the overpowered classes and your domination makes you believe you are awesome at PvP.
See how that works?
The man thinks steak is horrible because the one he ate is horrible. It doesn't matter what you think about steaks, he thinks what he knows. His opinion can CHANGE if he has a good steak, but until then he will still think steak is bad, which is his opinion.
My opinion is that this thread is stupid and based on your own opinion.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
opinions supported by fact/experience may be wrong. Theories in science are based on MANY tests and facts/experience, but apparently, they dont always hold true.
DARKFALL 09!
Apparently 08 didn't make it
Sorros of Forumfall.
if you keep it to yourself.
if you post your opinion in public, and it IS wrong, then to defend it with "oh it's my opinion" is foolish. by posting opinions on a public forum, you are inviting others to read, and to respond. is this not so? would thinking otherwise be foolish as well?
did you read the example i gave of a wrong opinion? the quoted post is almost as if someone read the subject and immediately made a post without having read anything in the op, or replies to the op.
did you miss the steak example?
all opinions are also not necessarily intelligent.
so it would seem that "no opinion can be wrong" is indeed a myth that needs to be corrected.
seriously?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
So in your opinion...there are opinions that are fact?
>.>
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Meow
thanks for proving my point. an opinion supported by FACT, would be likely correct. an opinion supported by EXPERIENCE is exactly my given example of the man eating the bad steak.
sorta like, "oh i keep dying on my toon, XYZ classes are overpowered. when the truth of the matter is that the person whining is just horrible at pvp." his experience is that everyone kicks his ass, so those classes must be overpowered, when in fact, he may be playing the overpowered class and he just sucks.
LOL.
So now opinions are only valid if they have facts to support them? HAHA you gotta be kidding me, that is the exact opposite of what an opinion is.
An opinion is an opinion because it is what the person thinks, not what is proven or not proven. For your example above, it might just be your opinion that he is horrible at PvP because you play one of the overpowered classes and your domination makes you believe you are awesome at PvP.
See how that works?
The man thinks steak is horrible because the one he ate is horrible. It doesn't matter what you think about steaks, he thinks what he knows. His opinion can CHANGE if he has a good steak, but until then he will still think steak is bad, which is his opinion.
My opinion is that this thread is stupid and based on your own opinion.
nice how you show that opinions are wrong, yet in the same breath, you say they're not wrong.
your opinion is yours and yours alone, as long as you keep it to yourself. if you present it to the public in a venue such as these forums, you are now submitting your opinions to the critique of others. if your opinion is based upon limited experience, or your own incompetence... you do not have the right, nor should you have the arrogance, to insist that no matter what factual information contradicts you -- that you ARE correct, BECAUSE it is your opinion.
many people held the opinion that the world was flat... did that make it so?
many people believed the earth was the center of the universe... did that make it so?
many people believed that the king/emperor/pharaoh was a god in human form... were they?**
it was their opinion, therefore it can't be wrong, amirite, abrahmm? that IS what you just stated, amirite?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Truth does not always win an argument.
The OP is correct im tired off horse crap on these boards.
The OP is just mad because he doesn't like how people are allowed to post negative things about his favorite games.
thanks for proving my point. an opinion supported by FACT, would be likely correct. an opinion supported by EXPERIENCE is exactly my given example of the man eating the bad steak.
sorta like, "oh i keep dying on my toon, XYZ classes are overpowered. when the truth of the matter is that the person whining is just horrible at pvp." his experience is that everyone kicks his ass, so those classes must be overpowered, when in fact, he may be playing the overpowered class and he just sucks.
LOL.
So now opinions are only valid if they have facts to support them? HAHA you gotta be kidding me, that is the exact opposite of what an opinion is.
An opinion is an opinion because it is what the person thinks, not what is proven or not proven. For your example above, it might just be your opinion that he is horrible at PvP because you play one of the overpowered classes and your domination makes you believe you are awesome at PvP.
See how that works?
The man thinks steak is horrible because the one he ate is horrible. It doesn't matter what you think about steaks, he thinks what he knows. His opinion can CHANGE if he has a good steak, but until then he will still think steak is bad, which is his opinion.
My opinion is that this thread is stupid and based on your own opinion.
nice how you show that opinions are wrong, yet in the same breath, you say they're not wrong.
your opinion is yours and yours alone, as long as you keep it to yourself. if you present it to the public in a venue such as these forums, you are now submitting your opinions to the critique of others. if your opinion is based upon limited experience, or your own incompetence... you do not have the right, nor should you have the arrogance, to insist that no matter what factual information contradicts you -- that you ARE correct, BECAUSE it is your opinion.
many people held the opinion that the world was flat... did that make it so?
many people believed the earth was the center of the universe... did that make it so?
many people believed that the king/emperor/pharaoh was a god in human form... were they?**
it was their opinion, therefore it can't be wrong, amirite, abrahmm? that IS what you just stated, amirite?
No, you are wrong... Completely wrong. Those aren't opinions, those are theories and beliefs.
People thought the world was flat because all evidence they saw pointed to that. They were disproven by scientific fact, making their THEORY wrong.
People thought the earth was the center of the universe because the evidence they had said it was. They didn't BELIEVE that something as large as the earth could be moving, and if it was they would feel it. The THEORY that the Earth was the center was disproven by Kepler and his observation of epicycles.
People BELIEVED that their king was a god, and that is what they believe. Can you prove they were wrong? Can you prove they were right? No, you can't really prove anything, it was their faith.
OPINIONS are completely different from beliefs and theories. Opinions are personal views on things.
"Abortion is wrong!" is an opinion. You can't prove with facts whether it is wrong or right.
"<insert game here> sucks!" is another opinion. You can't prove it wrong with "Facts" because it is a personal opinion, doesn't matter how experienced or inexperienced the person that has the opinion is.
And posting an opinion publicly is in no way changing the fact that it is an opinion, it is just allowing others to see how you feel.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I can't believe you came to a forum, especially this one, and tried to change the views or even enlighten the readers.
Seriously, unless you're at a help forum or technical forum, chances are you won't make any sort of breakthrough, especially when trying to spread common sense because common sense is not so common.
What is this? A dictionary debate forum?
What does the definition of "opinion" have to do with MMOs?
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
"I do not like the color black, because the color black is dark. Black is a bad color."
Lets break this down...
"I do not like the color black" - an opinion, no wrong, right or facts to be had here.
"because the color black is too dark." - a reasoning for the opinion. Contains a fact because black is indeed a dark color.
"Black is a bad color." - An opinion, no wrong, right or facts to be had here.
This does not however mean that the opinion as a whole is "right" or "wrong". It is very simple. Opinions are based on one persons viewpoint, and whatever information that person wants to use to base that opinion on. By definition opinions CANNOT be right or wrong. You can disagree with them and pose your own opinion, but that DOES NOT make them wrong and you right! This is truly an assinine debate...
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"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
ok, let's bring it back to MMOs. since we seem to be both off on a tangent and *smart* people think that semantics is cute.
person A... plays LOTRO for 5 hours, never reads the book that came with the game, never consults ingame help, never goes to the official website, never looks up information on any forum.
person A comes here and writes a review of the game. this review is nothing but negative. the crafting was too hard/complicated. talking in chat and replying to tells was too hard to figure out. couldn't find anyone to group with and so the quests were too hard... and spreads this type of review out for about 8 paragraphs.
people come along and point out how his opinions/beliefs/faith/values/whateverwordyouwanttousetosatsifyyoursemanticfetish is WRONG.
player A replies with -- it's my opinion, it can't be wrong, leave my opinion alone.
this is what i see time and time again and a lot of times it's in reviews that were posted on various forums here from people that were like the above, or start the review with "i didn't think i'd like this game", "i don't like games of this genre but i thought i'd try it anyway", "i played for the trial period and never bothered to join a guild or read up on the game or etc etc".
have i really not been this clear in this thread? some people seem to have totally understood what i said from the get-go and others just nerd-raged because, well, i guess nerd-raging is cool?
but, i stand by the "opinions can never be wrong is a myth that needs to be dispelled", statement. if you're presenting your opinions on a game, in a review here, then you are asking for others to read your review and agree/disagree with it. going, "it's my opinion, it's not wrong" is not a legitimate statement in this scenario.
otherwise, you're saying that every opinion in every review is correct and a horrible review from someone that went into the game thinking they'd hate it and never bothered to learn anything about it... can not be disputed with factual type information.
see what i did there?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Incredible.
Sure Opinions can be wrong in other peoples opinion...good debate and all but people will post here as they wish which is sad because as much as i enjoy playing the mmo's i play and wow is one of them, i'm tired of all the wow this and wow that, and wow hate.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion
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"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
What he is saying is correct.
In a more simple(since the people here at mmorpg.com need things simple) way of saying it.
If you measured out a 1"x1" square of cement, and then measured out a 2"x2" square of cement. And had someone come up and answer "which square is the largest".
The answer is obviously 2"x2" but if someone were to say "in my opinion the 1"x1" square is bigger".
The excuse of saying "in my opinion" does not change the fact that the 2"x2" is bigger.
It's the same with mmorpgs. Peoples opinions can flat out be wrong. But not always.
Saying a opinion can be flat out wrong, is not the same thing as saying "all opinions are either right or wrong"
If we return to the upper example, and changed the sizes to 3"x2" and 2"x3". Both answers are valid, and having a opinion can be defended. Even though they both are the same size, they both technically are the largest.
In mmorpg terms saying "the ui is terrible" Can be both a opinion and a fact. There are genuinely bad UI's. Which are clunky to use, and look terrible. And then there are UI's which just some people might not like, but is solid and easy to use.
In the first case, saying it's bad is a valid complaint.
in the second case, you moved from truth/validity to a pure opinion. And calling the UI "bad" is wrong. and incorrect. Because the UI isn't bad. A correct way to express your opinion would be "I don't like the UI, because to me it wasn't as smooth as i'd like, and I didn't like the color scheme."
That's what a opinion is. Saying:
"The UI sucks because it's ugly, and clunky" is a opinion sure, but it's not a opinion at the same time, when stated this way, it's presented as a fact.
There IS a difference.