Most Americans aren't aware of the fact that the countries praised for universal healthcare take up to and over 50% of their citizen's income in taxes.
Personally, I might consider it a fair trade depending on the details of where the extra revenue goes, but your average sheeple American will raise hell. Our people want the best of the best, and they want it cheap, or better yet, free.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
I don't even have to click on the OP's link. I don't know where it came from or how it was worded, but whoever thinks this is dead wrong. If a majority of Americans approved of government healthcare, we would have had it in the form of Hillary care a la 1994.
That was 1994. This is 2008 and attitudes can change in 14 years as has the price of healthcare dramaticly. From the looks of things it looks like the attitude towards UH has changed in favor of it.
Most Americans aren't aware of the fact that the countries praised for universal healthcare take up to and over 50% of their citizen's income in taxes. Personally, I might consider it a fair trade depending on the details of where the extra revenue goes, but your average sheeple American will raise hell. Our people want the best of the best, and they want it cheap, or better yet, free.
I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university).
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
Also in Canada there are extremely long waits for health care. Plus, all these problems worsen with time, as health care becomes a larger an larger portion of the government's budget. TANSTAAFL.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
Also in Canada there are extremely long waits for health care. Plus, all these problems worsen with time, as health care becomes a larger an larger portion of the government's budget. TANSTAAFL.
Yes, wait times have been the main faux pas of Canadian healthcare, no question.
In America the faux pas is the high cost and the uninsured.
You realize that the Fraser Institute is the most conservative thinktank available in Canada though and are the largest advocates of privatized medicine? Their reports are always scathing of public medicine and read in context the report was not as bad as you make it sound. For the vast majority of Canadians (those not seeing specialists) our health care is very good and it shows in our life expectancy rates and in our survival/longevity rates for major health issues. Our life expectancy rates as a nation are much higher than the US and our survival rates and longevity rates are on par with Americans WITH coverage (minus survival rates with cancer...we lag behind a bit).
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
Also in Canada there are extremely long waits for health care. Plus, all these problems worsen with time, as health care becomes a larger an larger portion of the government's budget. TANSTAAFL.
Yes, wait times have been the main faux pas of Canadian healthcare, no question.
In America the faux pas is the high cost and the uninsured.
You realize that the Fraser Institute is the most conservative thinktank available in Canada though and are the largest advocates of privatized medicine? Their reports are always scathing of public medicine and read in context the report was not as bad as you make it sound. For the vast majority of Canadians (those not seeing specialists) our health care is very good and it shows in our life expectancy rates and in our survival/longevity rates for major health issues. Our life expectancy rates as a nation are much higher than the US and our survival rates and longevity rates are on par with Americans WITH coverage (minus survival rates with cancer...we lag behind a bit).
I'm not "making it sound" like anything. I am merely saying there is no free lunch. I am also saying that everything we hand over to government is a loss of self-ownership.
Again we can play with statistics all day, you whip out yours; I'll whip out mine. I still feel it is wrong to put a gun to some people's heads and force them to pay for the health care of another -- and you do not think it's wrong. That's the real difference here.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
Originally posted by Libertasplz Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated? Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League. Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance. Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates. You lose.
Show your source of "most business are incorporated". I know many people with small businesses. Not a single one are incorporated. Second, yes, there are many "craptastic" schools in the US and that is where Canadian universities are equal on education.
Yes, estate taxes are a de facto inheritance tax; however, it does not affect the individual inheriting directly. Sure, it may reduce the inheritance, but it requires no tax payment on their part after receiving the inheritance.
If we are speaking of ridiculous taxes, how about Canada's funeral tax? Or the IPOD tax? CD tax? Care me to name more? You are taxed for everything.
Originally posted by Libertasplz Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated? Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League. Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance. Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates. You lose.
Show your source of "most business are incorporated". I know many people with small businesses. Not a single one are incorporated. Second, yes, there are many "craptastic" schools in the US and that is where Canadian universities are equal on education.
Yes, estate taxes are a de facto inheritance tax; however, it does not affect the individual inheriting directly. Sure, it may reduce the inheritance, but it requires no tax payment on their part after receiving the inheritance.
If we are speaking of ridiculous taxes, how about Canada's funeral tax? Or the IPOD tax? CD tax? Care me to name more? You are taxed for everything.
Most small businesses are self-employed people and are unincorporated.
I say go out and announce to the country that you want nat'l health care. Obama should LEAD the charge...LOL
it was THAT very thing that got the Republicans in control of the house AND the senate for the first time in 40 years under Newt. (1992 for those that are too young) Viva la Newt!!! Contract with America II. I say bring em back!!!!
Nat'l Health care actually scares people more than even dare I say...Palin!!!! (gasp)
Originally posted by Libertasplz Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated? Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League. Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance. Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates. You lose.
Show your source of "most business are incorporated". I know many people with small businesses. Not a single one are incorporated. Second, yes, there are many "craptastic" schools in the US and that is where Canadian universities are equal on education.
Yes, estate taxes are a de facto inheritance tax; however, it does not affect the individual inheriting directly. Sure, it may reduce the inheritance, but it requires no tax payment on their part after receiving the inheritance.
If we are speaking of ridiculous taxes, how about Canada's funeral tax? Or the IPOD tax? CD tax? Care me to name more? You are taxed for everything.
I think you and Fishermage misinterpret what I meant by that comment. Yes of course there are more businesses that are unincorporated (that is self-evident) but what I meant is that most business is done under incorporation. That is, the vast amount of business (revenue as the measure) is done under incorporation and the small businesses that generate the majority of the revenue in the US are incorporated. Clarified.
As for nitpicking every single tax that exists you would have to analyze every state and every province and measure each single item and every purchase and the average purchase level. That is an insane and unnecessary thing to do. We are talking about macrotaxes...the ones that cut broad swaths into every segment of society (income taxes, corporate taxes, estate taxes, capital taxes, etc. etc.).
If you have to resort to analyzing an IPOD tax in a specific province to build your case you are failing in the debate.
As for any American criticizing Canadian education standards all I have to do is sit back and laugh. It is well-known that Canadians have a far better quality of education than Americans do at the moment. All but two Canadian law schools (as an example) would be considered T1 schools. Toronto would be considered a top 14. Our worst two schools would be at the top of American T2. In the US you have T14, T1, T2, T3, and even T4 diploma mills. When Canadian undergrad students apply for grad school in the US they are in almost every situation given a GPA boost to respect the higher academic standards held here in Canada (look into applying to optometry schools if you don't believe me...throw them a letter and ask if you get a GPA adjustment for graduating from Canada).
There is a reason why our mediocre B average BSc students go to the US to get their med degrees. Heh. They can't get in here because we have quotas and standards.
Originally posted by Libertasplz Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated? Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League. Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance. Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates. You lose.
Show your source of "most business are incorporated". I know many people with small businesses. Not a single one are incorporated. Second, yes, there are many "craptastic" schools in the US and that is where Canadian universities are equal on education.
Yes, estate taxes are a de facto inheritance tax; however, it does not affect the individual inheriting directly. Sure, it may reduce the inheritance, but it requires no tax payment on their part after receiving the inheritance.
If we are speaking of ridiculous taxes, how about Canada's funeral tax? Or the IPOD tax? CD tax? Care me to name more? You are taxed for everything.
I think you and Fishermage misinterpret what I meant by that comment. Yes of course there are more businesses that are unincorporated (that is self-evident) but what I meant is that most business is done under incorporation. That is, the vast amount of business (revenue as the measure) is done under incorporation and the small businesses that generate the majority of the revenue in the US are incorporated. Clarified.
As for nitpicking every single tax that exists you would have to analyze every state and every province and measure each single item and every purchase and the average purchase level. That is an insane and unnecessary thing to do. We are talking about macrotaxes...the ones that cut broad swaths into every segment of society (income taxes, corporate taxes, estate taxes, capital taxes, etc. etc.).
If you have to resort to analyzing an IPOD tax in a specific province to build your case you are failing in the debate.
As for any American criticizing Canadian education standards all I have to do is sit back and laugh. It is well-known that Canadians have a far better quality of education than Americans do at the moment. All but two Canadian law schools (as an example) would be considered T1 schools. Toronto would be considered a top 14. Our worst two schools would be at the top of American T2. In the US you have T14, T1, T2, T3, and even T4 diploma mills. When Canadian undergrad students apply for grad school in the US they are in almost every situation given a GPA boost to respect the higher academic standards held here in Canada (look into applying to optometry schools if you don't believe me...throw them a letter and ask if you get a GPA adjustment for graduating from Canada).
There is a reason why our mediocre B average BSc students go to the US to get their med degrees. Heh. They can't get in here because we have quotas and standards.
No, they go to the US because we have many more schools.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
You are right...I absolutely will sacrifice babies from being fed on caviar to allow disadvantaged people to eat and live. I'll tax the lawyer or doctor 40% of his income (and perhaps a vacation home in Hawaii) so that every child can afford to go to primary school. These are choices a society must make. You know why?
No society can survive with a completely capitalist system of haves and have nots. There is no freedom when the personal choice is one of "work or starve" as a child. In this modern economy that holds all the way to post-secondary education. Part of that success requires a sufficient standard of health to attain that knowledge and manner of thinking.
That is why pure market forces don't work in the real world and why idealistic notions of freedom are based in utopian fairy tales and remove in practice many essential elements of positive liberty.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
You are right...I absolutely will sacrifice babies from being fed on caviar to allow disadvantaged people to eat and live. I'll tax the lawyer or doctor 40% of his income (and perhaps a vacation home in Hawaii) so that every child can afford to go to primary school. These are choices a society must make. You know why?
No society can survive with a completely capitalist system of haves and have nots. There is no freedom when the personal choice is one of "work or starve" as a child. In this modern economy that holds all the way to post-secondary education. Part of that success requires a sufficient standard of health to attain that knowledge and manner of thinking.
That is why pure market forces don't work in the real world and why idealistic notions of freedom are based in utopian fairy tales and remove in practice many essential elements of positive liberty.
I'm no utopian -- I am a pragmatic libertarian. The more markets, the better, period.
Sorry, nothing you say has any basis in fact. The more a nation, a community, any group of people uses the free market -- the better for al in the long run. The less, the worse off they all are. that is becaus ethe principles of self-ownership, trade, and voluntary cooperation trumps your rule by the gun and mutual slavery any day.
But yes, I understand why you would trade one for the other, being as you were educated in a government system that never taught you another path. That is the MAIN failure of a lack of separation of school and state. A loss of freedom of the mind.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
You are right...I absolutely will sacrifice babies from being fed on caviar to allow disadvantaged people to eat and live. I'll tax the lawyer or doctor 40% of his income (and perhaps a vacation home in Hawaii) so that every child can afford to go to primary school. These are choices a society must make. You know why?
No society can survive with a completely capitalist system of haves and have nots. There is no freedom when the personal choice is one of "work or starve" as a child. In this modern economy that holds all the way to post-secondary education. Part of that success requires a sufficient standard of health to attain that knowledge and manner of thinking.
That is why pure market forces don't work in the real world and why idealistic notions of freedom are based in utopian fairy tales and remove in practice many essential elements of positive liberty.
I'm no utopian -- I am a pragmatic libertarian. The more markets, the better, period.
Sorry, nothing you say has any basis in fact. The more a nation, a community, any group of people uses the free market -- the better for al in the long run. The less, the worse off they all are. that is becaus ethe principles of self-ownership, trade, and voluntary cooperation trumps your rule by the gun and mutual slavery any day.
But yes, I understand why you would trade one for the other, being as you were educated in a government system that never taught you another path. That is the MAIN failure of a lack of separation of school and state. A loss of freedom of the mind.
Schools indoctrinate via their teachers. It is an unfortunate component of any education system. However a system can introduce critical thinking (something public schools at least attempt) vs. the alternative, the parochial system, which has the allure of being the most one-sided, closed education system ever invented.
You seem to have got the memo on private property (kudos) but I think you forgot how that right is supposed to be protected...and when violated...remedied.
The right? philosophy 101
The protection? Poli sci 101
The remedy?
Philosophy 300s: philosophy of law/philosophy of government/senior ethics
Originally posted by Libertasplz I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university). Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
You are right...I absolutely will sacrifice babies from being fed on caviar to allow disadvantaged people to eat and live. I'll tax the lawyer or doctor 40% of his income (and perhaps a vacation home in Hawaii) so that every child can afford to go to primary school. These are choices a society must make. You know why?
No society can survive with a completely capitalist system of haves and have nots. There is no freedom when the personal choice is one of "work or starve" as a child. In this modern economy that holds all the way to post-secondary education. Part of that success requires a sufficient standard of health to attain that knowledge and manner of thinking.
That is why pure market forces don't work in the real world and why idealistic notions of freedom are based in utopian fairy tales and remove in practice many essential elements of positive liberty.
I'm no utopian -- I am a pragmatic libertarian. The more markets, the better, period.
Sorry, nothing you say has any basis in fact. The more a nation, a community, any group of people uses the free market -- the better for al in the long run. The less, the worse off they all are. that is becaus ethe principles of self-ownership, trade, and voluntary cooperation trumps your rule by the gun and mutual slavery any day.
But yes, I understand why you would trade one for the other, being as you were educated in a government system that never taught you another path. That is the MAIN failure of a lack of separation of school and state. A loss of freedom of the mind.
Schools indoctrinate via their teachers. It is an unfortunate component of any education system. However a system can introduce critical thinking (something public schools at least attempt) vs. the alternative, the parochial system, which has the allure of being the most one-sided, closed education system ever invented.
You seem to have got the memo on private property (kudos) but I think you forgot how that right is supposed to be protected...and when violated...remedied.
The right? philosophy 101
The protection? Poli sci 101
The remedy?
Philosophy 300s: philosophy of law/philosophy of government/senior ethics
Poli sci 300s: comparative government
Law: constitutional law/foundations to law
Less of the former and more of the latter plz.
In that you do not believe in self ownership, someone failed you.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I believe in private property.
But you do not believe money to be private property?
This is how many people view redistribution of income for social programs.
In my house I have a safe which contains my money. I worked for the money. It is my money. I can spend it or I can save it. It is all mine. Then comes a large, nasty individual, who I have no power to stop, and takes a large chunk of that money from my safe to redistribute to another individual who does not own it and has not worked for it. I have just been robbed.
People are given equal opportunity. It is their choice to either embrace it or let it slip from their hands.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I believe in private property.
But you do not believe money to be private property?
This is how many people view redistribution of income for social programs.
In my house I have a safe which contains my money. I worked for the money. It is my money. I can spend it or I can save it. It is all mine. Then comes a large, nasty individual, who I have no power to stop, and takes a large chunk of that money from my safe to redistribute to another individual who does not own it and has not worked for it. I have just been robbed.
People are given equal opportunity. It is their choice to either embrace it or let it slip from their hands.
Originally posted by Libertasplz I believe in private property.
But you do not believe money to be private property?
This is how many people view redistribution of income for social programs.
In my house I have a safe which contains my money. I worked for the money. It is my money. I can spend it or I can save it. It is all mine. Then comes a large, nasty individual, who I have no power to stop, and takes a large chunk of that money from my safe to redistribute to another individual who does not own it and has not worked for it. I have just been robbed.
People are given equal opportunity. It is their choice to either embrace it or let it slip from their hands.
No...money is not real property.
ahhhh where did you get THAT theory from? very convenient view though -- it basically allows you to claim to believe in private property, yet confiscate everything a man owns -- if it fits your utopian dream of redistribution and mutual enslavement.
NOW we are getting somewhere.
At any rate, try and prove that proposition, that money is not real property. Money is a medium of exchange. It is a fungible commodity that men covert their property into to facilltate trade. It is as real a property as a cow or land.
Comments
Most Americans aren't aware of the fact that the countries praised for universal healthcare take up to and over 50% of their citizen's income in taxes.
Personally, I might consider it a fair trade depending on the details of where the extra revenue goes, but your average sheeple American will raise hell. Our people want the best of the best, and they want it cheap, or better yet, free.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
That was 1994. This is 2008 and attitudes can change in 14 years as has the price of healthcare dramaticly. From the looks of things it looks like the attitude towards UH has changed in favor of it.
I live in Canada and we have universal healthcare for most things and Canadians on average pay the same or just slightly more in taxes. Personally living in Alberta I pay lower taxes than most Americans and I receive free healthcare and I had 80% of my post-secondary education paid for (I paid anywhere from 2000 -4500 dollars for each year of university).
Sounds like you aren't completely informed.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
Also in Canada there are extremely long waits for health care. Plus, all these problems worsen with time, as health care becomes a larger an larger portion of the government's budget. TANSTAAFL.
www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/fraser-report.html
fishermage.blogspot.com
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
Also in Canada there are extremely long waits for health care. Plus, all these problems worsen with time, as health care becomes a larger an larger portion of the government's budget. TANSTAAFL.
www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/fraser-report.html
Yes, wait times have been the main faux pas of Canadian healthcare, no question.
In America the faux pas is the high cost and the uninsured.
You realize that the Fraser Institute is the most conservative thinktank available in Canada though and are the largest advocates of privatized medicine? Their reports are always scathing of public medicine and read in context the report was not as bad as you make it sound. For the vast majority of Canadians (those not seeing specialists) our health care is very good and it shows in our life expectancy rates and in our survival/longevity rates for major health issues. Our life expectancy rates as a nation are much higher than the US and our survival rates and longevity rates are on par with Americans WITH coverage (minus survival rates with cancer...we lag behind a bit).
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
Also in Canada there are extremely long waits for health care. Plus, all these problems worsen with time, as health care becomes a larger an larger portion of the government's budget. TANSTAAFL.
www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/fraser-report.html
Yes, wait times have been the main faux pas of Canadian healthcare, no question.
In America the faux pas is the high cost and the uninsured.
You realize that the Fraser Institute is the most conservative thinktank available in Canada though and are the largest advocates of privatized medicine? Their reports are always scathing of public medicine and read in context the report was not as bad as you make it sound. For the vast majority of Canadians (those not seeing specialists) our health care is very good and it shows in our life expectancy rates and in our survival/longevity rates for major health issues. Our life expectancy rates as a nation are much higher than the US and our survival rates and longevity rates are on par with Americans WITH coverage (minus survival rates with cancer...we lag behind a bit).
I'm not "making it sound" like anything. I am merely saying there is no free lunch. I am also saying that everything we hand over to government is a loss of self-ownership.
Again we can play with statistics all day, you whip out yours; I'll whip out mine. I still feel it is wrong to put a gun to some people's heads and force them to pay for the health care of another -- and you do not think it's wrong. That's the real difference here.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Show your source of "most business are incorporated". I know many people with small businesses. Not a single one are incorporated. Second, yes, there are many "craptastic" schools in the US and that is where Canadian universities are equal on education.
Yes, estate taxes are a de facto inheritance tax; however, it does not affect the individual inheriting directly. Sure, it may reduce the inheritance, but it requires no tax payment on their part after receiving the inheritance.
If we are speaking of ridiculous taxes, how about Canada's funeral tax? Or the IPOD tax? CD tax? Care me to name more? You are taxed for everything.
Show your source of "most business are incorporated". I know many people with small businesses. Not a single one are incorporated. Second, yes, there are many "craptastic" schools in the US and that is where Canadian universities are equal on education.
Yes, estate taxes are a de facto inheritance tax; however, it does not affect the individual inheriting directly. Sure, it may reduce the inheritance, but it requires no tax payment on their part after receiving the inheritance.
If we are speaking of ridiculous taxes, how about Canada's funeral tax? Or the IPOD tax? CD tax? Care me to name more? You are taxed for everything.
Most small businesses are self-employed people and are unincorporated.
www.census.gov/epcd/www/smallbus.html
fishermage.blogspot.com
How quickly the libs forget...
I say go out and announce to the country that you want nat'l health care. Obama should LEAD the charge...LOL
it was THAT very thing that got the Republicans in control of the house AND the senate for the first time in 40 years under Newt. (1992 for those that are too young) Viva la Newt!!! Contract with America II. I say bring em back!!!!
Nat'l Health care actually scares people more than even dare I say...Palin!!!! (gasp)
Show your source of "most business are incorporated". I know many people with small businesses. Not a single one are incorporated. Second, yes, there are many "craptastic" schools in the US and that is where Canadian universities are equal on education.
Yes, estate taxes are a de facto inheritance tax; however, it does not affect the individual inheriting directly. Sure, it may reduce the inheritance, but it requires no tax payment on their part after receiving the inheritance.
If we are speaking of ridiculous taxes, how about Canada's funeral tax? Or the IPOD tax? CD tax? Care me to name more? You are taxed for everything.
I think you and Fishermage misinterpret what I meant by that comment. Yes of course there are more businesses that are unincorporated (that is self-evident) but what I meant is that most business is done under incorporation. That is, the vast amount of business (revenue as the measure) is done under incorporation and the small businesses that generate the majority of the revenue in the US are incorporated. Clarified.
As for nitpicking every single tax that exists you would have to analyze every state and every province and measure each single item and every purchase and the average purchase level. That is an insane and unnecessary thing to do. We are talking about macrotaxes...the ones that cut broad swaths into every segment of society (income taxes, corporate taxes, estate taxes, capital taxes, etc. etc.).
If you have to resort to analyzing an IPOD tax in a specific province to build your case you are failing in the debate.
As for any American criticizing Canadian education standards all I have to do is sit back and laugh. It is well-known that Canadians have a far better quality of education than Americans do at the moment. All but two Canadian law schools (as an example) would be considered T1 schools. Toronto would be considered a top 14. Our worst two schools would be at the top of American T2. In the US you have T14, T1, T2, T3, and even T4 diploma mills. When Canadian undergrad students apply for grad school in the US they are in almost every situation given a GPA boost to respect the higher academic standards held here in Canada (look into applying to optometry schools if you don't believe me...throw them a letter and ask if you get a GPA adjustment for graduating from Canada).
There is a reason why our mediocre B average BSc students go to the US to get their med degrees. Heh. They can't get in here because we have quotas and standards.
Show your source of "most business are incorporated". I know many people with small businesses. Not a single one are incorporated. Second, yes, there are many "craptastic" schools in the US and that is where Canadian universities are equal on education.
Yes, estate taxes are a de facto inheritance tax; however, it does not affect the individual inheriting directly. Sure, it may reduce the inheritance, but it requires no tax payment on their part after receiving the inheritance.
If we are speaking of ridiculous taxes, how about Canada's funeral tax? Or the IPOD tax? CD tax? Care me to name more? You are taxed for everything.
I think you and Fishermage misinterpret what I meant by that comment. Yes of course there are more businesses that are unincorporated (that is self-evident) but what I meant is that most business is done under incorporation. That is, the vast amount of business (revenue as the measure) is done under incorporation and the small businesses that generate the majority of the revenue in the US are incorporated. Clarified.
As for nitpicking every single tax that exists you would have to analyze every state and every province and measure each single item and every purchase and the average purchase level. That is an insane and unnecessary thing to do. We are talking about macrotaxes...the ones that cut broad swaths into every segment of society (income taxes, corporate taxes, estate taxes, capital taxes, etc. etc.).
If you have to resort to analyzing an IPOD tax in a specific province to build your case you are failing in the debate.
As for any American criticizing Canadian education standards all I have to do is sit back and laugh. It is well-known that Canadians have a far better quality of education than Americans do at the moment. All but two Canadian law schools (as an example) would be considered T1 schools. Toronto would be considered a top 14. Our worst two schools would be at the top of American T2. In the US you have T14, T1, T2, T3, and even T4 diploma mills. When Canadian undergrad students apply for grad school in the US they are in almost every situation given a GPA boost to respect the higher academic standards held here in Canada (look into applying to optometry schools if you don't believe me...throw them a letter and ask if you get a GPA adjustment for graduating from Canada).
There is a reason why our mediocre B average BSc students go to the US to get their med degrees. Heh. They can't get in here because we have quotas and standards.
No, they go to the US because we have many more schools.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
You are right...I absolutely will sacrifice babies from being fed on caviar to allow disadvantaged people to eat and live. I'll tax the lawyer or doctor 40% of his income (and perhaps a vacation home in Hawaii) so that every child can afford to go to primary school. These are choices a society must make. You know why?
No society can survive with a completely capitalist system of haves and have nots. There is no freedom when the personal choice is one of "work or starve" as a child. In this modern economy that holds all the way to post-secondary education. Part of that success requires a sufficient standard of health to attain that knowledge and manner of thinking.
That is why pure market forces don't work in the real world and why idealistic notions of freedom are based in utopian fairy tales and remove in practice many essential elements of positive liberty.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
You are right...I absolutely will sacrifice babies from being fed on caviar to allow disadvantaged people to eat and live. I'll tax the lawyer or doctor 40% of his income (and perhaps a vacation home in Hawaii) so that every child can afford to go to primary school. These are choices a society must make. You know why?
No society can survive with a completely capitalist system of haves and have nots. There is no freedom when the personal choice is one of "work or starve" as a child. In this modern economy that holds all the way to post-secondary education. Part of that success requires a sufficient standard of health to attain that knowledge and manner of thinking.
That is why pure market forces don't work in the real world and why idealistic notions of freedom are based in utopian fairy tales and remove in practice many essential elements of positive liberty.
I'm no utopian -- I am a pragmatic libertarian. The more markets, the better, period.
Sorry, nothing you say has any basis in fact. The more a nation, a community, any group of people uses the free market -- the better for al in the long run. The less, the worse off they all are. that is becaus ethe principles of self-ownership, trade, and voluntary cooperation trumps your rule by the gun and mutual slavery any day.
But yes, I understand why you would trade one for the other, being as you were educated in a government system that never taught you another path. That is the MAIN failure of a lack of separation of school and state. A loss of freedom of the mind.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
You are right...I absolutely will sacrifice babies from being fed on caviar to allow disadvantaged people to eat and live. I'll tax the lawyer or doctor 40% of his income (and perhaps a vacation home in Hawaii) so that every child can afford to go to primary school. These are choices a society must make. You know why?
No society can survive with a completely capitalist system of haves and have nots. There is no freedom when the personal choice is one of "work or starve" as a child. In this modern economy that holds all the way to post-secondary education. Part of that success requires a sufficient standard of health to attain that knowledge and manner of thinking.
That is why pure market forces don't work in the real world and why idealistic notions of freedom are based in utopian fairy tales and remove in practice many essential elements of positive liberty.
I'm no utopian -- I am a pragmatic libertarian. The more markets, the better, period.
Sorry, nothing you say has any basis in fact. The more a nation, a community, any group of people uses the free market -- the better for al in the long run. The less, the worse off they all are. that is becaus ethe principles of self-ownership, trade, and voluntary cooperation trumps your rule by the gun and mutual slavery any day.
But yes, I understand why you would trade one for the other, being as you were educated in a government system that never taught you another path. That is the MAIN failure of a lack of separation of school and state. A loss of freedom of the mind.
Schools indoctrinate via their teachers. It is an unfortunate component of any education system. However a system can introduce critical thinking (something public schools at least attempt) vs. the alternative, the parochial system, which has the allure of being the most one-sided, closed education system ever invented.
You seem to have got the memo on private property (kudos) but I think you forgot how that right is supposed to be protected...and when violated...remedied.
The right? philosophy 101
The protection? Poli sci 101
The remedy?
Philosophy 300s: philosophy of law/philosophy of government/senior ethics
Poli sci 300s: comparative government
Law: constitutional law/foundations to law
Less of the former and more of the latter plz.
Sounds like you are not completely informed. We have a very low tax rate in comparison to other countries, especially when married.
The first number is single tax rate. The second number is married tax rate. Now, keep in mind this is only income tax rate.
Canada 31.6% 21.5%
United States 29.1% 11.9%
Canada also has a health care tax which pays for your crappy socialized medicine.
This number is obviously conflated because you pick and choose the only way American taxes look low.
Also, you are looking at the only way American taxes look even decent...and that is income tax rates.
Looking at Canada nationally is kinda like looking at the US nationally...it is useless. Comparing the taxes in California to the taxes in Alaska is useless just like comparing Alberta to Quebec is useless. Let's go over the actual physical numbers.
So let's start:
#1: The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. Enjoy running a business with those types of taxes.
#2: The US has a gift tax (none in Canada). The US has estate taxes as well. Goodbye inherited wealth.
#3: Canadian income taxes look high overall when you factor in the monstrosity that is Quebec with its insane 20% provincial income taxes. Factor out Quebec (our weird attached friends) and you see a different picture.
Fact: US top income tax rate is 35%. In Canada it is 29%
Fact: Us state taxes (more than 80% have one) start at far lower income levels)
Fact: US taxes provide lower base amounts or protected income (for example in Alberta we do not pay a single shred of provincial tax until we earn 16,000).
Conclusion: The extra 4% Canadians pay on average for provincial taxes (15% burden compared to 11% overall burden in the US) and a 5% consumption tax is hardly worth complaining about considering US corporate taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes. Considering that 9% covers subsidized university and free health care...it is well worth paying for a vast majority of people especially considering Canadian corporate taxes are lower and we have no gift or estate taxes.
So like I said, the same or a bit more and you get a lot more bang for the buck.
Yes, corporate taxes are higher, but we are speaking of the tax an individual must pay for the services you claim are so great. In short, corporate taxes result in higher product costs. This does not mean anything when you are factoring the cost of your "free" insurance. It is not free.
Canadians, as well as any socialized country, have a much higher tax burden than the United States. Your "free" services such as health care and post-secondary education are sub-par.
When you "run a business" you do not pay corporate tax unless the company is a corporation. You pay personal income tax if your business is a sole proprietorship or partnership. Estate taxes do not apply unless the estate is valued at more than $125,000; however, the estate is taxed, not the person receiving the inheritance. Gift tax is primarily paid by the donor with the a few rare exceptions.
We do not have an inheritance tax. However, those ignoramuses who wish to vote in Obama do not realize he wishes to reestablish the inheritance tax.
Higher corporate taxes = less money to pay individuals and less income for a family business to declare...you realize that most business is small business...and most are incorporated?
Your 2nd sentence is stating your conclusion (once again) while a whole list of contradictory facts stare you in the face. And sorry, our universities are just as good as yours. While the US has the best schools in the world you also have a whole bunch of substandard craptastic schools (the vast majority). Canadian universities are all very good and compare favourably to all US T1 schools outside the Ivy League.
Estate taxes are de facto inheritance taxes. Most estates are worth more than that due to the value of the home. The taxes that come off the estate directly affect inheritance.
Gift taxes are instituted to protect gifting away estates.
You lose.
So once again, you show you prefer everyone getting the average than the ability to have the best and worst. Again, we'll have to disagree. I would rather have a world of difference than universal mediocrity enforced by the guns of the state.
If we rid this world of the highs and lows in the United States, all we would have is continually decreasing mediocrity. The highest sets the standards that the mediocre socialists must aim for. Without some markets there is no way to perform any economic calculation at all -- no way to rationally determine prices and supply.
I HIGHLY recommend Ludwig von Mises Socialism for a very good analysis of this, that still holds up today:
www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail
No matter what the product, socialism fails, and not only fails, CAN'T succeed without someone, somewhere, to some extent following market principles.
You are right...I absolutely will sacrifice babies from being fed on caviar to allow disadvantaged people to eat and live. I'll tax the lawyer or doctor 40% of his income (and perhaps a vacation home in Hawaii) so that every child can afford to go to primary school. These are choices a society must make. You know why?
No society can survive with a completely capitalist system of haves and have nots. There is no freedom when the personal choice is one of "work or starve" as a child. In this modern economy that holds all the way to post-secondary education. Part of that success requires a sufficient standard of health to attain that knowledge and manner of thinking.
That is why pure market forces don't work in the real world and why idealistic notions of freedom are based in utopian fairy tales and remove in practice many essential elements of positive liberty.
I'm no utopian -- I am a pragmatic libertarian. The more markets, the better, period.
Sorry, nothing you say has any basis in fact. The more a nation, a community, any group of people uses the free market -- the better for al in the long run. The less, the worse off they all are. that is becaus ethe principles of self-ownership, trade, and voluntary cooperation trumps your rule by the gun and mutual slavery any day.
But yes, I understand why you would trade one for the other, being as you were educated in a government system that never taught you another path. That is the MAIN failure of a lack of separation of school and state. A loss of freedom of the mind.
Schools indoctrinate via their teachers. It is an unfortunate component of any education system. However a system can introduce critical thinking (something public schools at least attempt) vs. the alternative, the parochial system, which has the allure of being the most one-sided, closed education system ever invented.
You seem to have got the memo on private property (kudos) but I think you forgot how that right is supposed to be protected...and when violated...remedied.
The right? philosophy 101
The protection? Poli sci 101
The remedy?
Philosophy 300s: philosophy of law/philosophy of government/senior ethics
Poli sci 300s: comparative government
Law: constitutional law/foundations to law
Less of the former and more of the latter plz.
In that you do not believe in self ownership, someone failed you.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I believe in private property.
I just know how society must be structured to protect it and bring it to fruition.
But you do not believe money to be private property?
This is how many people view redistribution of income for social programs.
In my house I have a safe which contains my money. I worked for the money. It is my money. I can spend it or I can save it. It is all mine. Then comes a large, nasty individual, who I have no power to stop, and takes a large chunk of that money from my safe to redistribute to another individual who does not own it and has not worked for it. I have just been robbed.
People are given equal opportunity. It is their choice to either embrace it or let it slip from their hands.
I believe in private property.
I just know how society must be structured to protect it and bring it to fruition.
Sorry, the "structure" you believe in is in direct contradiction to private property.
fishermage.blogspot.com
But you do not believe money to be private property?
This is how many people view redistribution of income for social programs.
In my house I have a safe which contains my money. I worked for the money. It is my money. I can spend it or I can save it. It is all mine. Then comes a large, nasty individual, who I have no power to stop, and takes a large chunk of that money from my safe to redistribute to another individual who does not own it and has not worked for it. I have just been robbed.
People are given equal opportunity. It is their choice to either embrace it or let it slip from their hands.
No...money is not real property.
But you do not believe money to be private property?
This is how many people view redistribution of income for social programs.
In my house I have a safe which contains my money. I worked for the money. It is my money. I can spend it or I can save it. It is all mine. Then comes a large, nasty individual, who I have no power to stop, and takes a large chunk of that money from my safe to redistribute to another individual who does not own it and has not worked for it. I have just been robbed.
People are given equal opportunity. It is their choice to either embrace it or let it slip from their hands.
No...money is not real property.
ahhhh where did you get THAT theory from? very convenient view though -- it basically allows you to claim to believe in private property, yet confiscate everything a man owns -- if it fits your utopian dream of redistribution and mutual enslavement.
NOW we are getting somewhere.
At any rate, try and prove that proposition, that money is not real property. Money is a medium of exchange. It is a fungible commodity that men covert their property into to facilltate trade. It is as real a property as a cow or land.
fishermage.blogspot.com