Hello all, i have a few questions about WAR, here it goes
~ Is there a open world? (like say VG?)
Not seamless, you can only take designated paths into the next tiers and there are loading screens, however a lot better than say age of conan.
~ Are the invis walls?
Yeah, I've encountered quite a few.
~ Is the world large?
There are many areas to explore and most of them are pretty large. As a comparison I would say it's probably as large as WoW pre tbc. EDIT: maybe a bit smaller come to think of it.
~ I heard its RvR, but can i go to a enemy side and atk someone of the opposing faction? (like WoW) or does all pvp take place in a special zone or instance?
Yeah, as far as pvp is concerned done very well in my opinion.
Its funny the fanbois say war is open world. When alls you have to do is take a look at WARs ingame map. It has lines to each spot for christ sake. would that not make it linear? Come on now. Stop the crusades for nothing and let go of it from being this GREAT game. Its the saem old.
"Well GEE True its not supposed to be anything new. They took all the great parts of an mmo and made it better" BULLSHIT. Would u buy a new cellphone(WAR) where alls they did was made it "better" but it works and looks EXACTLY like your old cell phone(WoW)? HELL NO.
Come on now people use your head. Cause now i am starting to get mad because every game company is spoon feeding us the same bullshit, and im getting sick of it i want something new. Not Sandbox not Linear i dont care. Just give me someonething new. Not what they call "Refined" because thats some bullshit.
You do understand why they have the shoot the bolt quests right? They are to show you what is in store for you later on seige weapons and how to use them.. I really thought this was a great idea to get the players involved with the dynamics of RvR possiblities. Lets be honest, there only so many ways you can do quests and these are as good as any I've seen from EQ2 or WoW. If your looking for something dramatically different, your going to be disappointed for a long time as no MMoRPG seems interested in changing that fact. Thats another reason why some really like the fact you don't have to do a single quest, or grind in this game, just do RvR, PQ's and Scenario's instead! Variety is the spice of life and Warhammer has much more than most MMoRPG's I've seen.
Know what? Look at the game informer article this month on star trek online. I think there is a link to it at the appropriate forum here. No, I won't go get it, yes I'm lazy.
To summarize, the quests there will play like an episode. You have to , for instance pilot your ship to a specific zone, with an ambassador onboard that you need to safely get to his respective destination. once there, you get off your ship and on the planet that was your destination. you then fight your way to the destination . Then you find out the ambassador is actually a spy and he takes off with the klingons. They stated each of these episodid quests could take like an hour. Now thats a quest. (I depise trekkies, but that caught my eye)
Think about the word "quest". ...quest=an epic adventure. "hey, see that guy right there...yeah, that guy 10 feet way.....take him this note". That is hardly "epic". I remember in eq one when you did your epic weapon quest. man, you felt fucking high when you completed it! Do people not want that anymore? has the wow generation really sunk to the depths that they appreciate a reward they got for running 9 feet and killing 4 rats?
FFS, do what you are supposed to do developers..........DEVELOP!
There is nothing new in WaR. Tired pvp (yes geeks, I know its rvr , not pvp ..as if it matters) ,tired quests, tired graphics, tired zones, tired character models, very very tired loot, joke crafting,. ..........
It isn't bad , per se at what it does. it just so happens that what it does........is boring and done to death.
Hmm. Let's put that step-by-step in terms of game mechanics:
Travel to X location. ( pilot your ship to a specific zone, with an ambassador onboard )
Escort Y to Z location. ( an ambassador onboard that you need to safely get to his respective destination. once there, you get off your ship and on the planet that was your destination. you then fight your way to the destination )
Talk to so-and-so. ( Then you find out the ambassador is actually a spy and he takes off with the klingons. )
Yes, that's a huge deviation from the current MMO mechanics.
What makes any of that stuff interesting is things like flavor text, and any events that happen along the way. When it comes to the flavor text, most people don't bother reading it. They just click through the quest dialogues because they don't really care about any of that boring reading stuff. (I'm not one of these people; I'm just pointing out how most people look at it.) So what we're really left with is what happens during any one of these phases that might make things interesting.
Here are a couple more examples of what sorts of variations could be added in STO terms:
Go to X location. You're sent to sabotage Klingon outposts that Starfleet Intelligence has discovered on a planet in Federation space. As you get near the planet you receive a distress signal; the planet is under attack by the Borg! When you get to the scene you see a bunch of other ships battling a Borg cube. You could jump in and help, but you also see that the planet has some orbiting defense platforms and you tap into them to fire on the Borg.
Talk to so-and-so. You're told to go negotiate with a newly warp-capable species and ask them to help defend the Federation against the Klingons. There are several "tribes" of them, and it turns out that some are perfectly happy to ally with you. Others, though, would rather shoot at you instead of talking.
These are both twists on the classic quest mechanics, just like what you described when talking about STO. You probably even think they sound pretty cool. But you know what? Both of these are also in Warhammer Online right now, today. In fact, they're both quests that you encounter within your first six levels as a High Elf (first example -- the Chapter 1 public quest against a hydra, with ballistae that you can fire) or Empire character (second example -- recruiting the farmers to help defend the town).
As long as you're talking about "epic" stuff -- real quest-type stuff -- I also feel obliged to mention that today I finally completed two quest lines that I started along about rank 7. These quests formed two continuous stories that each spanned two tiers of the game world and ultimately 12 of my character's levels. (In other words, a quarter of my career.) One actually started in the elven lands, went through a couple maps there, then headed off through two maps in the Empire lands before finally returning to elven lands for a couple more maps. Epic stuff. Real quest-type stuff. Not that a lot of people would ever realize just how interesting and cool it was, since they don't like reading quest text. But who's fault is it in the end? It's not the developer's fault. After all, Mythic did indeed provide engrossing storylines that cover a long span of time. It's entirely the player's fault for glossing over everything that makes Mythic's work stand out and reducing it to the basics of "My mini-map says I need to go here and kill X."
Its funny the fanbois say war is open world. When alls you have to do is take a look at WARs ingame map. It has lines to each spot for christ sake. would that not make it linear? Come on now. Stop the crusades for nothing and let go of it from being this GREAT game. Its the saem old. "Well GEE True its not supposed to be anything new. They took all the great parts of an mmo and made it better" BULLSHIT. Would u buy a new cellphone(WAR) where alls they did was made it "better" but it works and looks EXACTLY like your old cell phone(WoW)? HELL NO Come on now people use your head. Cause now i am starting to get mad because every game company is spoon feeding us the same bullshit, and im getting sick of it i want something new. Not Sandbox not Linear i dont care. Just give me someonething new. Not what they call "Refined" because thats some bullshit.
=p talk about using your head......
First, who gives a rats ass if its an open world or not. The question is, did they do a good job with the way it is constructed. VG has a huge open world, most of which never had content developed for it. Open world, bad execution. WoW has a more closed world, linear pathed strategically placed cliffs and impenatrable forests. It was done well. WAR does not have an open world, but the world it has was done well.
My favorite color is blue. I have a choice between a Green bicycle and a blue turd. I'm taking the bicycle....I don't care what color the turd is. So WAR isn't an open world, its still a bicycle compared to the turd of VG*
*analogy purely for emphasis, I actually am o.k. with VG although, I do think the open world is under utilized.
Second, sometimes, people do, in fact, get a new cell phone for just minor differences. Sometimes its for a different function on the phone (like RvR - which your WoW phone did't have), sometimes people will lose a function on their phone they never used (old people downgrading because they can't text message = no need for massive raid content when all you want to do is RvR), and sometimes people just get a new phone because it just looks cooler (AoC).
And last.....
you may be used to the mechanics. you may have seen stylized lower end graphics before. you may have very well played pvp games before. But if so you should know primarily that RvR/PvP is just a playing field. The 'game' is what you make it. Do you turn on Monday Night Football and say.....same player positions, same goal posts, same yardage, same uniforms and helmets.....football is feeding me the same BULLSHIT each game and now I'm mad!!!! Of course you don't. RvR/PvP's world is just a playing field. Get into an organized guild and start playing the game as a team and look for your fun there. You say you want them to stop spoon feeding you the same BULLSHIT, well, apparently, that's exactly what you are asking 'feed me my fun - i don't want a playing field, I want fun force fed down my throat, and btw, I'm allergic to all the food you've fed me before'.
Tell me this. In any other game can you turn it on and see that you don't have access to some of your merchants because the other side captured all your keeps? And then did you organize or have to become part of a movement to take them back over? And one night you might find a whole raid force of enemies while another night you are able to one shot scampering loners and then another night the battle front is in their zone, one night you are defending, another you are on the offensive. tell, me, in what other mmo can player actions effect those kind of dynamics on an hourly, daily, weekly and monthly basis? And all this can be done with random pick up groups and are chaotically fun -or on the other hand you could become part of a guild that is a well-oiled fighting machine and get a completely different experience in pvp/rvr.....
Yeah, using your head, same old bullshit. If you stop trying to play WoW while in WAR, and actually try to participate in the WAR, you will see that all the similarities between this game and other mmo's are thin and on the surface. The entire objective and purpose of playing is different from those games.
The bitching I hear sounds to me like: Baseball is exactly like football. They both have team members with specific roles (same ol' classes), they both have balls (same ol' loot), they both score points (same ol' quests), they both happen in stadiums (same ol' fantasy world).
In reality, they just happen to be completely different games. Now, that's using your head.
Its funny the fanbois say war is open world. When alls you have to do is take a look at WARs ingame map. It has lines to each spot for christ sake. would that not make it linear? Come on now. Stop the crusades for nothing and let go of it from being this GREAT game. Its the saem old.
"Well GEE True its not supposed to be anything new. They took all the great parts of an mmo and made it better" BULLSHIT. Would u buy a new cellphone(WAR) where alls they did was made it "better" but it works and looks EXACTLY like your old cell phone(WoW)? HELL NO.
Come on now people use your head. Cause now i am starting to get mad because every game company is spoon feeding us the same bullshit, and im getting sick of it i want something new. Not Sandbox not Linear i dont care. Just give me someonething new. Not what they call "Refined" because thats some bullshit.
define what you mean when you use the term "open world". i do not think it means what you think it means.
10m people bought a new cell phone (wow), when all it did was improve on the current mmos at the time.
so... eve online is the same as every game out there? ryzom is the same? COx? guild wars?
what are you looking for?
i see somewhere else in this thread that a player mentions he just finished a quest line that lasted thru like 10 or 12 levels. how's that for something new in pve?
PQs allow you to fight raid bosses starting at level 1, with very little time (compared to a raid) spent to get to the boss. how is this not new? three different "scenes" you work your way thru (not all necessarily involve combat), leading to the showdown with the raid boss and his elites.
Scenarios are, essentially BGs you can join starting at lvl 1. at lvl 1, you have a choice of 3 to join. in wow, at level 10, you get a choice of 1 until lvl 30? then it expands to 2? what does this mean to you? that you can start pvp'ing at lvl 1 and level your character exclusively thru pvp.
siege weapons are available. you start using those in t2 scenarios. and have learning missions to use them at 1st/2nd level in the normal world.
so there we go, new and different offerings available as soon as you log into the game.
to be quite honest, your post is a bit rambly and i don't understand what you're complaining about.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Know what? Look at the game informer article this month on star trek online. I think there is a link to it at the appropriate forum here. No, I won't go get it, yes I'm lazy. To summarize, the quests there will play like an episode. You have to , for instance pilot your ship to a specific zone, with an ambassador onboard that you need to safely get to his respective destination. once there, you get off your ship and on the planet that was your destination. you then fight your way to the destination . Then you find out the ambassador is actually a spy and he takes off with the klingons. They stated each of these episodid quests could take like an hour. Now thats a quest. (I depise trekkies, but that caught my eye) Think about the word "quest". ...quest=an epic adventure. "hey, see that guy right there...yeah, that guy 10 feet way.....take him this note". That is hardly "epic". I remember in eq one when you did your epic weapon quest. man, you felt fucking high when you completed it! Do people not want that anymore? has the wow generation really sunk to the depths that they appreciate a reward they got for running 9 feet and killing 4 rats? FFS, do what you are supposed to do developers..........DEVELOP! There is nothing new in WaR. Tired pvp (yes geeks, I know its rvr , not pvp ..as if it matters) ,tired quests, tired graphics, tired zones, tired character models, very very tired loot, joke crafting,. .......... It isn't bad , per se at what it does. it just so happens that what it does........is boring and done to death.
Hmm. Let's put that step-by-step in terms of game mechanics:
Travel to X location. ( pilot your ship to a specific zone, with an ambassador onboard )
Escort Y to Z location. ( an ambassador onboard that you need to safely get to his respective destination. once there, you get off your ship and on the planet that was your destination. you then fight your way to the destination )
Talk to so-and-so. ( Then you find out the ambassador is actually a spy and he takes off with the klingons. )
Yes, that's a huge deviation from the current MMO mechanics.
What makes any of that stuff interesting is things like flavor text, and any events that happen along the way. When it comes to the flavor text, most people don't bother reading it. They just click through the quest dialogues because they don't really care about any of that boring reading stuff. (I'm not one of these people; I'm just pointing out how most people look at it.) So what we're really left with is what happens during any one of these phases that might make things interesting.
Here are a couple more examples of what sorts of variations could be added in STO terms:
Go to X location. You're sent to sabotage Klingon outposts that Starfleet Intelligence has discovered on a planet in Federation space. As you get near the planet you receive a distress signal; the planet is under attack by the Borg! When you get to the scene you see a bunch of other ships battling a Borg cube. You could jump in and help, but you also see that the planet has some orbiting defense platforms and you tap into them to fire on the Borg.
Talk to so-and-so. You're told to go negotiate with a newly warp-capable species and ask them to help defend the Federation against the Klingons. There are several "tribes" of them, and it turns out that some are perfectly happy to ally with you. Others, though, would rather shoot at you instead of talking.
These are both twists on the classic quest mechanics, just like what you described when talking about STO. You probably even think they sound pretty cool. But you know what? Both of these are also in Warhammer Online right now, today. In fact, they're both quests that you encounter within your first six levels as a High Elf (first example -- the Chapter 1 public quest against a hydra, with ballistae that you can fire) or Empire character (second example -- recruiting the farmers to help defend the town).
As long as you're talking about "epic" stuff -- real quest-type stuff -- I also feel obliged to mention that today I finally completed two quest lines that I started along about rank 7. These quests formed two continuous stories that each spanned two tiers of the game world and ultimately 12 of my character's levels. (In other words, a quarter of my career.) One actually started in the elven lands, went through a couple maps there, then headed off through two maps in the Empire lands before finally returning to elven lands for a couple more maps. Epic stuff. Real quest-type stuff. Not that a lot of people would ever realize just how interesting and cool it was, since they don't like reading quest text. But who's fault is it in the end? It's not the developer's fault. After all, Mythic did indeed provide engrossing storylines that cover a long span of time. It's entirely the player's fault for glossing over everything that makes Mythic's work stand out and reducing it to the basics of "My mini-map says I need to go here and kill X."
Quoted for truth. A computer has no choice but to take a piece of creative writing like the text for a quest and put it into a mechanized, mathmatical list of objectives to prove you have completed the quest.
NPC: "Go forth and fight hordes of monstrous enemies to free my daughter from the dungeon"
Computer translation (youll recognize it from your quest tracker)
-locate dungeon
-kill 25 mobs
-escort daughter to safety
How else could a computer fullfill this archetypical fantasy quest line? Can you have a fantasy game without an element of exploration? No? then you will have, 'find x location' quests. Cany you have a fantasy game without killing monsters? No,then you will have 'kill x number of mobs'. Can you have a fantasy game where you don't save damsels in distress or the like? nope? then you will have escort quests.
When people complain about quests, I wish people would stop giving examples of cool story lines they could use and explain instead how a computer can translate that into something we haven't seen before. I have been thinking about it for years and the only thing I can think to mix things up is if the computer randomly generated the number of mobs you needed to complete a quest, say like a range of 20 to 35 mobs, and then didn't tell you....so you had to fight not knowing when it would end. Problem is, someone would figure out the range, post it on some forums and then we'd just end up with a print out beside our comps......I just see no other way to make quests. The question needs to focus on: is killing those 25 mobs fun? Make it fun, and who cares how the game tracks your quest progression.
Hello all, i have a few questions about WAR, here it goes ~ Is there a open world? (like say VG?) ~ Are the invis walls? ~ Is the world large? ~ I heard its RvR, but can i go to a enemy side and atk someone of the opposing faction? (like WoW) or does all pvp take place in a special zone or instance? ~ Weather effects? doest it rain/snow? Any comments would be great!!
1. Its not instanced, but its a bit zoned in similar way like WoW. WAR world is not open like in VG.
2. I think not.
3. Yes it looks huge.
4. On Open RVR server - yes. On Core only if enemy is with RvR flag up that is always up on special zones.
5. Not implemented I think.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Hello all, i have a few questions about WAR, here it goes ~ Is there a open world? (like say VG?) ~ Are the invis walls? ~ Is the world large? ~ I heard its RvR, but can i go to a enemy side and atk someone of the opposing faction? (like WoW) or does all pvp take place in a special zone or instance? ~ Weather effects? doest it rain/snow? Any comments would be great!!
1. No it is NOT an open world like in Wow - Outland (flying your mount freely over any territory and land)
2. Yes and no. All zones have the 2D monutain effect. Limiting very much your freedom (see point 1)
3. The world looks large at first- because it is new - but the first zones of Tier 1 and even Tier 2 are small. The biggest complaint here is that only 30% of the map shown can be played (rest is "filled out" with impassable mountains). Also on each map there is at least 10 % RvR (PvP zone).
All the time you get the feeling of being led through small passages and tunnels (and despite the views you don't have that immersive "free to go wherever you want" feeling like Outland or even basic Wow.
4. PVP takes place in scenarios or RvR areas (automatically you're flagged for RvR when you enter). on a stanrd server that is - free RvR exists also.
5. Not like in Wow. Storms like the Wetlands you will not see in WAR.
Biggest problem WAR will face is that the server populations are mostly too small to cover every RvR zone and PQ (PVE) in a balanced way.
So they even need a smaller world OR raise the number of people per server. Leveling a new character on a medium "older" server already gives problems for doing the PQ quest and have some meaningful RvR.
Extra comment: I don't like the tactical PvP at all. Just my opinion: too bland if you are used to the short Crowd control functions in WoW. Slower and not as dynamic.
Its funny the fanbois say war is open world. When alls you have to do is take a look at WARs ingame map. It has lines to each spot for christ sake. would that not make it linear? Come on now. Stop the crusades for nothing and let go of it from being this GREAT game. Its the saem old. "Well GEE True its not supposed to be anything new. They took all the great parts of an mmo and made it better" BULLSHIT. Would u buy a new cellphone(WAR) where alls they did was made it "better" but it works and looks EXACTLY like your old cell phone(WoW)? HELL NO Come on now people use your head. Cause now i am starting to get mad because every game company is spoon feeding us the same bullshit, and im getting sick of it i want something new. Not Sandbox not Linear i dont care. Just give me someonething new. Not what they call "Refined" because thats some bullshit.
=p talk about using your head......
First, who gives a rats ass if its an open world or not. The question is, did they do a good job with the way it is constructed. VG has a huge open world, most of which never had content developed for it. Open world, bad execution. WoW has a more closed world, linear pathed strategically placed cliffs and impenatrable forests. It was done well. WAR does not have an open world, but the world it has was done well.
My favorite color is blue. I have a choice between a Green bicycle and a blue turd. I'm taking the bicycle....I don't care what color the turd is. So WAR isn't an open world, its still a bicycle compared to the turd of VG*
*analogy purely for emphasis, I actually am o.k. with VG although, I do think the open world is under utilized.
Second, sometimes, people do, in fact, get a new cell phone for just minor differences. Sometimes its for a different function on the phone (like RvR - which your WoW phone did't have), sometimes people will lose a function on their phone they never used (old people downgrading because they can't text message = no need for massive raid content when all you want to do is RvR), and sometimes people just get a new phone because it just looks cooler (AoC).
And last.....
you may be used to the mechanics. you may have seen stylized lower end graphics before. you may have very well played pvp games before. But if so you should know primarily that RvR/PvP is just a playing field. The 'game' is what you make it. Do you turn on Monday Night Football and say.....same player positions, same goal posts, same yardage, same uniforms and helmets.....football is feeding me the same BULLSHIT each game and now I'm mad!!!! Of course you don't. RvR/PvP's world is just a playing field. Get into an organized guild and start playing the game as a team and look for your fun there. You say you want them to stop spoon feeding you the same BULLSHIT, well, apparently, that's exactly what you are asking 'feed me my fun - i don't want a playing field, I want fun force fed down my throat, and btw, I'm allergic to all the food you've fed me before'.
Tell me this. In any other game can you turn it on and see that you don't have access to some of your merchants because the other side captured all your keeps? And then did you organize or have to become part of a movement to take them back over? And one night you might find a whole raid force of enemies while another night you are able to one shot scampering loners and then another night the battle front is in their zone, one night you are defending, another you are on the offensive. tell, me, in what other mmo can player actions effect those kind of dynamics on an hourly, daily, weekly and monthly basis? And all this can be done with random pick up groups and are chaotically fun -or on the other hand you could become part of a guild that is a well-oiled fighting machine and get a completely different experience in pvp/rvr.....
Yeah, using your head, same old bullshit. If you stop trying to play WoW while in WAR, and actually try to participate in the WAR, you will see that all the similarities between this game and other mmo's are thin and on the surface. The entire objective and purpose of playing is different from those games.
The bitching I hear sounds to me like: Baseball is exactly like football. They both have team members with specific roles (same ol' classes), they both have balls (same ol' loot), they both score points (same ol' quests), they both happen in stadiums (same ol' fantasy world).
In reality, they just happen to be completely different games. Now, that's using your head.
QFT Give the man a cookie.
It's great to see such a well placed analogy, and coherent argument. Very good post.
The quest path in each zone is linear. The zone itself is not. In fact, there are tons of things to discover in each zone, with tome unlocks to reward you for your efforts. There are something like 24 boss lairs to find, some of which are very difficult to locate and others are easy to find but hard to figure out how to open. The edges of the zones are unobtrusive, and are designed to look like natural parts of the terrain. The overall size of the world is very difficult to actually guage. Each racial pairing is a single zone, split between two maps. (More at tier 4) To simply run from one end of a tier 1 map to the other end of its adjoining map (there's no instancing between maps; only between tiers and pairings) would take about the same length of time as getting from one end of the Barrens to the other in WoW. The width is equivalent to the width of the Barrens for travel time, as well. So figure that tier 1 is equivalent to three Barrens zones. Tier 2 is about the same size as tier 1. Maybe just a little larger. That brings us to a total of six Barrens-sized zones. Tier 3 is a good 50% larger than tier 2. Tier 4 is a lot larger than tier 3. When you add all of this up across all three racial pairings, you've easily got a game that rivals the original WoW for size. In truth, I think that each racial pairing is about equal to one of WoW's continents. That would bring the total size of the world to about equal with WoW/BC. In short, the world is certainly not open and non-instanced like Vanguard. But it's also certainly not small, nor is it lacking in places to explore. Additionally, WAR has a lot of atmosphere that Vanguard lacks. For example, there's wildlife all over the place. To answer your RvR question, it depends on the server type. Core servers confine all PvP to the scenarios or the RvR "lakes" that make up a portion of every map. Also, you can't gank because if you outlevel the area then you turn into a chicken upon entering one of the RvR areas. And if you're too low of level for the area, you get bolstered up to three levels below the area's max. (Tier 1, for example, bolsters you to level 8 if you're 1-7.) This scales up your stats and abilities, but doesn't give you anything you haven't learned yet. If you play on an Open server, almost all bets are off. PvP can happen anywhere, and there's no bolstering. The chicken effect also only happens if the person is two or more tiers higher in level than the area he goes into. So open servers are much more like WoW's PvP servers.
I've been looking for boss lairs...I think I've failed thus far.
All the time you get the feeling of being led through small passages and tunnels (and despite the views you don't have that immersive "free to go wherever you want" feeling like Outland or even basic Wow.
Let's take a good look at Outland's "free to go wherever you want" nature:
Hellfire Peninsula. No choice here. That's the only way in unless you get a warlock to summon you someplace else or a mage to portal you to Shattrath.
Zangarmarsh.
Terokkar Forest.
Nagrand or Blade's Edge (You will have to do at least some in both.)
Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley (You will need to do at least some in both.)
With 4 and 5, the only choice you have is which you want to do first.
You could go places out of that order, but WoW's aggro rules mean that you'll be spending a lot of that time doing corpse runs or strictly sticking to established roads. I dare you as a level 60 to go to Blade's Edge and explore off the roads.
In fact, speaking of Blade's Edge, have you noticed how many impassable mountains there are that use up big chunks of the map? How linear the quest progression is there? In other words, exactly the same things you complain about WAR for. And as for flying, you can only do that once you're level 70 (68 if a druid). So for 69 of your character's levels the flight argument doesn't apply.
Now for WAR:
Tier 1. Empire/Chaos OR High Elf/Dark Elf OR Dwarf/Greenskin. You only need to do one.
Tier 1.5 You get to a war camp and can easily go to any of the other three.
Tier 2. Empire/Chaos OR High Elf/Dark Elf OR Dwarf/Greenskin. If you're only doing PvE, you'll need to do about half the content from one of the other pairings, too.
Tier 3. Empire/Chaos OR High Elf/Dark Elf OR Dwarf/Greenskin.
Tier 4. Empire/Chaos OR High Elf/Dark Elf OR Dwarf/Greenskin.
Tier 4.5 Deeper into Empire/Chaos OR High Elf/Dark Elf OR Dwarf/Greenskin territory.
To put it another way, as you're playing through ALL of WAR's content you always have three choices for where to go PvE. You ALWAYS have three zones that have content appropriate to your level, and getting between these zones is quick and easy. You simply can't use Outland as an example of how non-linear WoW is compared to WAR. Sorry, but it doesn't work.
Back to the OP's points: I did encounter an invisible wall (of sorts) yesterday. In High Elf Tier 2.5 you get to the ocean, and there's an island just off the map. If you try to swim to it, you cross an invisible line and start taking massive damage over time. So there's no physical invisible wall, but there is an effective one. Which took me 20 levels to find.
I've been looking for boss lairs...I think I've failed thus far.
Here are a couple that I know of:
In Elf tier 1 (either faction) the RvR takes place on a big island. If you swim around the northern edge of that island you'll find three caves, and each one has a rune inside. If you activate all three runes, a door opens on the island itself with a level 11 multi-group boss in it. You cannot attempt this boss if you're 12 or over due to the chicken effect.
Also in High Elf tier 1, Blighted Isle: Near the Thanalorn Forest PQ there is the Fire Crystal Caverns. If you go into that cave and drop into the first large chamber, then start tab-targeting as you go up the ramp out of that chamber you'll find Gorthlak. He's a level 40 multi-group boss. To actually get to him, you need to go outside the caves and find a way up the mountains there.
I should have stated i do not nor have played WoW.Just using it as an example because it really did water down MMOs. Diffferent talk for a different time. Never thought of it as how u explained it with the vendors and stuff. Its just not my game i truly do hope everyone who is playin it fully enjoys it.
I have played another RvRvR game before RF Online not many people no about it. I loved it. I dunno we wiull see whats soon to come for the mmo world.
The original poster was mislead to the size of the world. He is an explorer type player by the questions he asked as what was important to him, this game was not made for this type of playstyle.
The world is infact small, if that's going to bother you then it's not for you, if you are an action driven player I'm sure you'll find more than enough to go around on the other hand.
Does that make it a bad game? No, not that in and of itself, but it's made with purpose to each area and zone, the maps are not large nor do they compare to a continent of WoW as some player posted that is very misleading.
Unlike most of you I've played it on levels 1-40 and I personally felt very confined. Dark age of camelot was the same way upon release, I don't know if that changed in later expansion but I assume it did.
Comments
Hello all, i have a few questions about WAR, here it goes
~ Is there a open world? (like say VG?)
Not seamless, you can only take designated paths into the next tiers and there are loading screens, however a lot better than say age of conan.
~ Are the invis walls?
Yeah, I've encountered quite a few.
~ Is the world large?
There are many areas to explore and most of them are pretty large. As a comparison I would say it's probably as large as WoW pre tbc. EDIT: maybe a bit smaller come to think of it.
~ I heard its RvR, but can i go to a enemy side and atk someone of the opposing faction? (like WoW) or does all pvp take place in a special zone or instance?
Yeah, as far as pvp is concerned done very well in my opinion.
~ Weather effects? doest it rain/snow?
Yup, seen rain, snow might be more not sure.
Any comments would be great!!
Its funny the fanbois say war is open world. When alls you have to do is take a look at WARs ingame map. It has lines to each spot for christ sake. would that not make it linear? Come on now. Stop the crusades for nothing and let go of it from being this GREAT game. Its the saem old.
"Well GEE True its not supposed to be anything new. They took all the great parts of an mmo and made it better" BULLSHIT. Would u buy a new cellphone(WAR) where alls they did was made it "better" but it works and looks EXACTLY like your old cell phone(WoW)? HELL NO.
Come on now people use your head. Cause now i am starting to get mad because every game company is spoon feeding us the same bullshit, and im getting sick of it i want something new. Not Sandbox not Linear i dont care. Just give me someonething new. Not what they call "Refined" because thats some bullshit.
Darkfalls so revolutionary it uninstalls itself.
Know what? Look at the game informer article this month on star trek online. I think there is a link to it at the appropriate forum here. No, I won't go get it, yes I'm lazy.
To summarize, the quests there will play like an episode. You have to , for instance pilot your ship to a specific zone, with an ambassador onboard that you need to safely get to his respective destination. once there, you get off your ship and on the planet that was your destination. you then fight your way to the destination . Then you find out the ambassador is actually a spy and he takes off with the klingons. They stated each of these episodid quests could take like an hour. Now thats a quest. (I depise trekkies, but that caught my eye)
Think about the word "quest". ...quest=an epic adventure. "hey, see that guy right there...yeah, that guy 10 feet way.....take him this note". That is hardly "epic". I remember in eq one when you did your epic weapon quest. man, you felt fucking high when you completed it! Do people not want that anymore? has the wow generation really sunk to the depths that they appreciate a reward they got for running 9 feet and killing 4 rats?
FFS, do what you are supposed to do developers..........DEVELOP!
There is nothing new in WaR. Tired pvp (yes geeks, I know its rvr , not pvp ..as if it matters) ,tired quests, tired graphics, tired zones, tired character models, very very tired loot, joke crafting,. ..........
It isn't bad , per se at what it does. it just so happens that what it does........is boring and done to death.
Hmm. Let's put that step-by-step in terms of game mechanics:
Yes, that's a huge deviation from the current MMO mechanics.
What makes any of that stuff interesting is things like flavor text, and any events that happen along the way. When it comes to the flavor text, most people don't bother reading it. They just click through the quest dialogues because they don't really care about any of that boring reading stuff. (I'm not one of these people; I'm just pointing out how most people look at it.) So what we're really left with is what happens during any one of these phases that might make things interesting.
Here are a couple more examples of what sorts of variations could be added in STO terms:
These are both twists on the classic quest mechanics, just like what you described when talking about STO. You probably even think they sound pretty cool. But you know what? Both of these are also in Warhammer Online right now, today. In fact, they're both quests that you encounter within your first six levels as a High Elf (first example -- the Chapter 1 public quest against a hydra, with ballistae that you can fire) or Empire character (second example -- recruiting the farmers to help defend the town).
As long as you're talking about "epic" stuff -- real quest-type stuff -- I also feel obliged to mention that today I finally completed two quest lines that I started along about rank 7. These quests formed two continuous stories that each spanned two tiers of the game world and ultimately 12 of my character's levels. (In other words, a quarter of my career.) One actually started in the elven lands, went through a couple maps there, then headed off through two maps in the Empire lands before finally returning to elven lands for a couple more maps. Epic stuff. Real quest-type stuff. Not that a lot of people would ever realize just how interesting and cool it was, since they don't like reading quest text. But who's fault is it in the end? It's not the developer's fault. After all, Mythic did indeed provide engrossing storylines that cover a long span of time. It's entirely the player's fault for glossing over everything that makes Mythic's work stand out and reducing it to the basics of "My mini-map says I need to go here and kill X."
=p talk about using your head......
First, who gives a rats ass if its an open world or not. The question is, did they do a good job with the way it is constructed. VG has a huge open world, most of which never had content developed for it. Open world, bad execution. WoW has a more closed world, linear pathed strategically placed cliffs and impenatrable forests. It was done well. WAR does not have an open world, but the world it has was done well.
My favorite color is blue. I have a choice between a Green bicycle and a blue turd. I'm taking the bicycle....I don't care what color the turd is. So WAR isn't an open world, its still a bicycle compared to the turd of VG*
*analogy purely for emphasis, I actually am o.k. with VG although, I do think the open world is under utilized.
Second, sometimes, people do, in fact, get a new cell phone for just minor differences. Sometimes its for a different function on the phone (like RvR - which your WoW phone did't have), sometimes people will lose a function on their phone they never used (old people downgrading because they can't text message = no need for massive raid content when all you want to do is RvR), and sometimes people just get a new phone because it just looks cooler (AoC).
And last.....
you may be used to the mechanics. you may have seen stylized lower end graphics before. you may have very well played pvp games before. But if so you should know primarily that RvR/PvP is just a playing field. The 'game' is what you make it. Do you turn on Monday Night Football and say.....same player positions, same goal posts, same yardage, same uniforms and helmets.....football is feeding me the same BULLSHIT each game and now I'm mad!!!! Of course you don't. RvR/PvP's world is just a playing field. Get into an organized guild and start playing the game as a team and look for your fun there. You say you want them to stop spoon feeding you the same BULLSHIT, well, apparently, that's exactly what you are asking 'feed me my fun - i don't want a playing field, I want fun force fed down my throat, and btw, I'm allergic to all the food you've fed me before'.
Tell me this. In any other game can you turn it on and see that you don't have access to some of your merchants because the other side captured all your keeps? And then did you organize or have to become part of a movement to take them back over? And one night you might find a whole raid force of enemies while another night you are able to one shot scampering loners and then another night the battle front is in their zone, one night you are defending, another you are on the offensive. tell, me, in what other mmo can player actions effect those kind of dynamics on an hourly, daily, weekly and monthly basis? And all this can be done with random pick up groups and are chaotically fun -or on the other hand you could become part of a guild that is a well-oiled fighting machine and get a completely different experience in pvp/rvr.....
Yeah, using your head, same old bullshit. If you stop trying to play WoW while in WAR, and actually try to participate in the WAR, you will see that all the similarities between this game and other mmo's are thin and on the surface. The entire objective and purpose of playing is different from those games.
The bitching I hear sounds to me like: Baseball is exactly like football. They both have team members with specific roles (same ol' classes), they both have balls (same ol' loot), they both score points (same ol' quests), they both happen in stadiums (same ol' fantasy world).
In reality, they just happen to be completely different games. Now, that's using your head.
define what you mean when you use the term "open world". i do not think it means what you think it means.
10m people bought a new cell phone (wow), when all it did was improve on the current mmos at the time.
so... eve online is the same as every game out there? ryzom is the same? COx? guild wars?
what are you looking for?
i see somewhere else in this thread that a player mentions he just finished a quest line that lasted thru like 10 or 12 levels. how's that for something new in pve?
PQs allow you to fight raid bosses starting at level 1, with very little time (compared to a raid) spent to get to the boss. how is this not new? three different "scenes" you work your way thru (not all necessarily involve combat), leading to the showdown with the raid boss and his elites.
Scenarios are, essentially BGs you can join starting at lvl 1. at lvl 1, you have a choice of 3 to join. in wow, at level 10, you get a choice of 1 until lvl 30? then it expands to 2? what does this mean to you? that you can start pvp'ing at lvl 1 and level your character exclusively thru pvp.
siege weapons are available. you start using those in t2 scenarios. and have learning missions to use them at 1st/2nd level in the normal world.
so there we go, new and different offerings available as soon as you log into the game.
to be quite honest, your post is a bit rambly and i don't understand what you're complaining about.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Hmm. Let's put that step-by-step in terms of game mechanics:
Yes, that's a huge deviation from the current MMO mechanics.
What makes any of that stuff interesting is things like flavor text, and any events that happen along the way. When it comes to the flavor text, most people don't bother reading it. They just click through the quest dialogues because they don't really care about any of that boring reading stuff. (I'm not one of these people; I'm just pointing out how most people look at it.) So what we're really left with is what happens during any one of these phases that might make things interesting.
Here are a couple more examples of what sorts of variations could be added in STO terms:
These are both twists on the classic quest mechanics, just like what you described when talking about STO. You probably even think they sound pretty cool. But you know what? Both of these are also in Warhammer Online right now, today. In fact, they're both quests that you encounter within your first six levels as a High Elf (first example -- the Chapter 1 public quest against a hydra, with ballistae that you can fire) or Empire character (second example -- recruiting the farmers to help defend the town).
As long as you're talking about "epic" stuff -- real quest-type stuff -- I also feel obliged to mention that today I finally completed two quest lines that I started along about rank 7. These quests formed two continuous stories that each spanned two tiers of the game world and ultimately 12 of my character's levels. (In other words, a quarter of my career.) One actually started in the elven lands, went through a couple maps there, then headed off through two maps in the Empire lands before finally returning to elven lands for a couple more maps. Epic stuff. Real quest-type stuff. Not that a lot of people would ever realize just how interesting and cool it was, since they don't like reading quest text. But who's fault is it in the end? It's not the developer's fault. After all, Mythic did indeed provide engrossing storylines that cover a long span of time. It's entirely the player's fault for glossing over everything that makes Mythic's work stand out and reducing it to the basics of "My mini-map says I need to go here and kill X."
Quoted for truth. A computer has no choice but to take a piece of creative writing like the text for a quest and put it into a mechanized, mathmatical list of objectives to prove you have completed the quest.
NPC: "Go forth and fight hordes of monstrous enemies to free my daughter from the dungeon"
Computer translation (youll recognize it from your quest tracker)
-locate dungeon
-kill 25 mobs
-escort daughter to safety
How else could a computer fullfill this archetypical fantasy quest line? Can you have a fantasy game without an element of exploration? No? then you will have, 'find x location' quests. Cany you have a fantasy game without killing monsters? No,then you will have 'kill x number of mobs'. Can you have a fantasy game where you don't save damsels in distress or the like? nope? then you will have escort quests.
When people complain about quests, I wish people would stop giving examples of cool story lines they could use and explain instead how a computer can translate that into something we haven't seen before. I have been thinking about it for years and the only thing I can think to mix things up is if the computer randomly generated the number of mobs you needed to complete a quest, say like a range of 20 to 35 mobs, and then didn't tell you....so you had to fight not knowing when it would end. Problem is, someone would figure out the range, post it on some forums and then we'd just end up with a print out beside our comps......I just see no other way to make quests. The question needs to focus on: is killing those 25 mobs fun? Make it fun, and who cares how the game tracks your quest progression.
1. Its not instanced, but its a bit zoned in similar way like WoW. WAR world is not open like in VG.
2. I think not.
3. Yes it looks huge.
4. On Open RVR server - yes. On Core only if enemy is with RvR flag up that is always up on special zones.
5. Not implemented I think.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
1. No it is NOT an open world like in Wow - Outland (flying your mount freely over any territory and land)
2. Yes and no. All zones have the 2D monutain effect. Limiting very much your freedom (see point 1)
3. The world looks large at first- because it is new - but the first zones of Tier 1 and even Tier 2 are small. The biggest complaint here is that only 30% of the map shown can be played (rest is "filled out" with impassable mountains). Also on each map there is at least 10 % RvR (PvP zone).
All the time you get the feeling of being led through small passages and tunnels (and despite the views you don't have that immersive "free to go wherever you want" feeling like Outland or even basic Wow.
4. PVP takes place in scenarios or RvR areas (automatically you're flagged for RvR when you enter). on a stanrd server that is - free RvR exists also.
5. Not like in Wow. Storms like the Wetlands you will not see in WAR.
Biggest problem WAR will face is that the server populations are mostly too small to cover every RvR zone and PQ (PVE) in a balanced way.
So they even need a smaller world OR raise the number of people per server. Leveling a new character on a medium "older" server already gives problems for doing the PQ quest and have some meaningful RvR.
Extra comment: I don't like the tactical PvP at all. Just my opinion: too bland if you are used to the short Crowd control functions in WoW. Slower and not as dynamic.
=p talk about using your head......
First, who gives a rats ass if its an open world or not. The question is, did they do a good job with the way it is constructed. VG has a huge open world, most of which never had content developed for it. Open world, bad execution. WoW has a more closed world, linear pathed strategically placed cliffs and impenatrable forests. It was done well. WAR does not have an open world, but the world it has was done well.
My favorite color is blue. I have a choice between a Green bicycle and a blue turd. I'm taking the bicycle....I don't care what color the turd is. So WAR isn't an open world, its still a bicycle compared to the turd of VG*
*analogy purely for emphasis, I actually am o.k. with VG although, I do think the open world is under utilized.
Second, sometimes, people do, in fact, get a new cell phone for just minor differences. Sometimes its for a different function on the phone (like RvR - which your WoW phone did't have), sometimes people will lose a function on their phone they never used (old people downgrading because they can't text message = no need for massive raid content when all you want to do is RvR), and sometimes people just get a new phone because it just looks cooler (AoC).
And last.....
you may be used to the mechanics. you may have seen stylized lower end graphics before. you may have very well played pvp games before. But if so you should know primarily that RvR/PvP is just a playing field. The 'game' is what you make it. Do you turn on Monday Night Football and say.....same player positions, same goal posts, same yardage, same uniforms and helmets.....football is feeding me the same BULLSHIT each game and now I'm mad!!!! Of course you don't. RvR/PvP's world is just a playing field. Get into an organized guild and start playing the game as a team and look for your fun there. You say you want them to stop spoon feeding you the same BULLSHIT, well, apparently, that's exactly what you are asking 'feed me my fun - i don't want a playing field, I want fun force fed down my throat, and btw, I'm allergic to all the food you've fed me before'.
Tell me this. In any other game can you turn it on and see that you don't have access to some of your merchants because the other side captured all your keeps? And then did you organize or have to become part of a movement to take them back over? And one night you might find a whole raid force of enemies while another night you are able to one shot scampering loners and then another night the battle front is in their zone, one night you are defending, another you are on the offensive. tell, me, in what other mmo can player actions effect those kind of dynamics on an hourly, daily, weekly and monthly basis? And all this can be done with random pick up groups and are chaotically fun -or on the other hand you could become part of a guild that is a well-oiled fighting machine and get a completely different experience in pvp/rvr.....
Yeah, using your head, same old bullshit. If you stop trying to play WoW while in WAR, and actually try to participate in the WAR, you will see that all the similarities between this game and other mmo's are thin and on the surface. The entire objective and purpose of playing is different from those games.
The bitching I hear sounds to me like: Baseball is exactly like football. They both have team members with specific roles (same ol' classes), they both have balls (same ol' loot), they both score points (same ol' quests), they both happen in stadiums (same ol' fantasy world).
In reality, they just happen to be completely different games. Now, that's using your head.
QFT Give the man a cookie.
It's great to see such a well placed analogy, and coherent argument. Very good post.
I've been looking for boss lairs...I think I've failed thus far.
Let's take a good look at Outland's "free to go wherever you want" nature:
With 4 and 5, the only choice you have is which you want to do first.
You could go places out of that order, but WoW's aggro rules mean that you'll be spending a lot of that time doing corpse runs or strictly sticking to established roads. I dare you as a level 60 to go to Blade's Edge and explore off the roads.
In fact, speaking of Blade's Edge, have you noticed how many impassable mountains there are that use up big chunks of the map? How linear the quest progression is there? In other words, exactly the same things you complain about WAR for. And as for flying, you can only do that once you're level 70 (68 if a druid). So for 69 of your character's levels the flight argument doesn't apply.
Now for WAR:
To put it another way, as you're playing through ALL of WAR's content you always have three choices for where to go PvE. You ALWAYS have three zones that have content appropriate to your level, and getting between these zones is quick and easy. You simply can't use Outland as an example of how non-linear WoW is compared to WAR. Sorry, but it doesn't work.
Back to the OP's points: I did encounter an invisible wall (of sorts) yesterday. In High Elf Tier 2.5 you get to the ocean, and there's an island just off the map. If you try to swim to it, you cross an invisible line and start taking massive damage over time. So there's no physical invisible wall, but there is an effective one. Which took me 20 levels to find.
Here are a couple that I know of:
I should have stated i do not nor have played WoW.Just using it as an example because it really did water down MMOs. Diffferent talk for a different time. Never thought of it as how u explained it with the vendors and stuff. Its just not my game i truly do hope everyone who is playin it fully enjoys it.
I have played another RvRvR game before RF Online not many people no about it. I loved it. I dunno we wiull see whats soon to come for the mmo world.
OH NOOOO. im late for work bb haha
Darkfalls so revolutionary it uninstalls itself.
The original poster was mislead to the size of the world. He is an explorer type player by the questions he asked as what was important to him, this game was not made for this type of playstyle.
The world is infact small, if that's going to bother you then it's not for you, if you are an action driven player I'm sure you'll find more than enough to go around on the other hand.
Does that make it a bad game? No, not that in and of itself, but it's made with purpose to each area and zone, the maps are not large nor do they compare to a continent of WoW as some player posted that is very misleading.
Unlike most of you I've played it on levels 1-40 and I personally felt very confined. Dark age of camelot was the same way upon release, I don't know if that changed in later expansion but I assume it did.