Canceling the debate is absolutly ridiculous, if there was ever a time too hear from the presidential nominee about a crysis situation this would be it, i hate listening to the republicans on tv talking about how McCain is so patriotic for suspending the campaign, that is like saying if there is ever a crysis the country should stop functioning as it should.
These debates should go forward, that way the public can actually have an idea of what he actually has planned for teh financial crisis, saying he is going to work on the finacial crisis is like him saying he is taking a break to devolop a cure for cancer, sure it sounds noble, but what the hell does that mean.
No one said anything about canceling the debate.
postponing... there, sorry i didnt mean to totally invalidate my post by using the word cancel instead of postpone.
But what difference would postponing a FOREIGN POLICY debate have on what we know about their views on the financial crisis?
Plus the cure for cancer analogy is DEEPLY flawed; try using an ebola outbreak or some similar contagious disease that might wipe us all out. he is taking a break from bullspit (a campaign) to do his JOB (senate). Obama has chosen politics over country, like he has always done.
Now watch how this play might play out. McCain goes to washington, gets the job done, and because Obama refused to postpone, he shows up and debates anyway. He then kicks his butt because it IS foreign policy, something he knows better than Obama. Obama goes from the childish "I can walk and chew gum at the same time" crap to being able to trip and choke on his gum at the same time.
I'm not so sure that's how it's gonna go -- but if I were mCCain, I would have had it all planned out this way, KNOWING Obama would say what he did, and react the way he did, because it is SOO easy to push his buttons
Now, explain what McCain is going to do, that he cant do over the phone, i assume he is going to talk, i cant imagine him rolling up his sleaves to start tackling the finacial crisis, its not like there is anything he can contribute that he cant do over the phone and if he absolutly has to be there in person, why not relocate the debats.
And obviously the debate should have the topic changed to focus on the finacial situation, there is no rule saying the subject cannot be changed.
I agree with much of what you say, but Senator Reed, the DEMOCRAT, asked him to come own there yesterday. In response, McCain suspended his campaign and asked Obama to do the same. Obama refused. The rest will play out in a most interesting manner.
Just watch how it goes down. Remember, you heard it here first. Obama is a terrible chess player.
funny he never suspended the campaign when the housing market was being shredded, or last week when Wall Street was doing a nose dive. only when he is losing by 9 points and Obama suggests a joint statement he suddenly rises to the occasion...to steal the camera time first. Funny, in 2004 when the country was in the middle of a dual war we had a debate without so much as a second thought.
he didn't have to because his JOB (Senator) didn't call for it. This week, it does, Senator Reed stated yesterday that McCain was needed there if they were going to get any action on this thing. Love him or hate him, once again. when duty calls, McCain is answering.
Obama on the other hand, plays politics as usual.
Yeah, John McCains move today was is no way political move to try and stop the hemorraging of poll numbers and end the perceived anger at the republican party over the Presidents the bailout plan. anger that is spreading like mad over party lines. No, It was just pure love of country and duty.
Ah yes once again the typical snotty retort (the crazy person smiley -- how mature of you) from a true partisan. Looks like I can push your buttons as easily as McCain can push Obama's.
He is not having a hemoraging of poll numbers; they are all pretty even except for the ABC poll which surveyed 2/3 as many democrats as republicans. All other polls are within the margin of error.
You can see things the way you want. Remember,m I'm not a McCain supporter. I just enjoy politics as theater; and this is some good theater I am witnessing. I'll still probably vote for Barr, even though there are things I don't like about him either.
We'll see how independents react to this. Obama, in his childish reaction, has stepped in it. Watch. Just remember you heard it from me first.
I agree with much of what you say, but Senator Reed, the DEMOCRAT, asked him to come own there yesterday. In response, McCain suspended his campaign and asked Obama to do the same. Obama refused. The rest will play out in a most interesting manner. Just watch how it goes down. Remember, you heard it here first. Obama is a terrible chess player.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the candidates' presence could be a distraction during the talks.
"I understand that the candidates are putting together a joint statement at Sen. Obama's suggestion. But it would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process or distract important talks about the future of our nation's economy," Reid said Wednesday.
"If that changes, we will call upon them. We need leadership, not a campaign photo op."
You were saying?
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I agree with much of what you say, but Senator Reed, the DEMOCRAT, asked him to come own there yesterday. In response, McCain suspended his campaign and asked Obama to do the same. Obama refused. The rest will play out in a most interesting manner. Just watch how it goes down. Remember, you heard it here first. Obama is a terrible chess player.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the candidates' presence could be a distraction during the talks.
"I understand that the candidates are putting together a joint statement at Sen. Obama's suggestion. But it would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process or distract important talks about the future of our nation's economy," Reid said Wednesday.
"If that changes, we will call upon them. We need leadership, not a campaign photo op."
You were saying?
Reid said that AFTER he said McCain was needed (yesterday). he changed his position to suit Obama's.
Reid said that AFTER he said McCain was needed (yesterday). he changed his position to suit Obama's. Watch.
Do you have a source or is this just what you've heard?
ABC news radio about am hour ago. Give it time, it'll show up on the internet
As I said, watch. You must have more patience than your candidate. Watch how this all plays out. Obama stepped in it. YOu don't think McCain KNEW Obama was going to react the way he did? You don't think he had a third move? Watch.
As a registered Independant thats voted Republican the last 4 elections, I think I've shown more patience than either of these two running out there to see who gets face time first over this story. Our lives and the economy are not a show piece and thats exactly what both are doing, although McCain in my opinion is making quite a bigger show than Obama of it. I saw no real concern from either until the shit hit the fan last week. Both are concerned with polls and leads in the race and to think its any true concern is lauaghable.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
As a registered Independant thats voted Republican the last 4 elections, I think I've shown more patience than either of these two running out there to see who gets face time first over this story. Our lives and the economy are not a show piece and thats exactly what both are doing, although McCain in my opinion is making quite a bigger show than Obama of it. I saw no real concern from either until the shit hit the fan last week. Both are concerned with polls and leads in the race and to think its any true concern is lauaghable.
Sorry, I assumed you were an Obama supporter from your tone. My apologies.
Actually if you've been following the issue. McCain has shown concern for years; so has Bush. The democrats in congress blocked any reforms.
Well this might just be what walks McCain into the White House. Especially if Obama attacks McCain over this. Instead of worrying about an Election McCain is doing his job as a Senator.
I guess you guys were right about not counting McCain out of the race just yet. In fact I'd say that Obama may have just cost himself the Presidency because he doesn't want to be caught saying yes or no to the bill. He is scared.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
Well this might just be what walks McCain into the White House. Especially if Obama attacks McCain over this. Instead of worrying about an Election McCain is doing his job as a Senator.
I guess you guys were right about not counting McCain out of the race just yet. In fact I'd say that Obama may have just cost himself the Presidency because he doesn't want to be caught saying yes or no to the bill. He is scared.
Exactly. let's say McCain goes down there, manages to work out a compromise bill, gets the Republicans to go along with it (because as it stands now they are not); the thing passes. He looks like a hero, Obama looks like a politician, especially if McCain does it all by Friday and makes the debate.
In that he is not a leader in the Senate, and has never been a leader in anything in his life, they don't need him in Washington. This frees him to play politics while the real men and women in the Senate do their jobs.
Obama was class President at Harvard Law School, and Chicago's greatest leader of all time. Please don't claim he hasn't been a leader, because that is clearly not the case.
Also, his campaign is a sign of his leadership as well. No other presidential candidate has been responsible for as many new voter registrations as Obama's compaign. They have already registered 40,000 new voters in MN alone! We are not that large of a state either!
In that he is not a leader in the Senate, and has never been a leader in anything in his life, they don't need him in Washington. This frees him to play politics while the real men and women in the Senate do their jobs.
Obama was class President at Harvard Law School, and Chicago's greatest leader of all time. Please don't claim he hasn't been a leader, because that is clearly not the case.
Also, his campaign is a sign of his leadership as well. No other presidential candidate has been responsible for as many new voter registrations as Obama's compaign. They have already registered 40,000 new voters in MN alone! We are not that large of a state either!
he never led anything in Chicago. What did he lead there? President of harvard? What does that entail?
Leading in Voter registration????? Diddy does that. That's not leadership -- at least not how we usually define it.
Campaign? sorry he doesn't run his campaign. He has people for that.
hehehe we'll have to agree to disagree on this as well. But, I would like some example of one act of leadership he did in Chicago.
Well what else is Obama gana do? go on there and have a full hour long talking point? If he Dosent get his Butt on a plane and go do his job i think he is gana hurt for it.
In that he is not a leader in the Senate, and has never been a leader in anything in his life, they don't need him in Washington. This frees him to play politics while the real men and women in the Senate do their jobs.
Nor is McCain needed. The only time they will be needed in Washington is to vote on the bailout bill. If put together correctly by the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve, it will just be a ministirial act, nothing more than a formal ratification bill. It can pass without either of their votes.
Look, neither McCain nor Obama have to write the bill. Treasury will give both party leaders in the House and the Senate (which is neither Obama and McCain) what is needed. You honestly don't think that the bunch of chimpanzees in the US Congress is going to be asked to sit down and write an economic bailout bill independantly of Treasury and Fed Reserve do you?
Hell, they couldn't agree on who holds the pen, let alone actually agree on the words to put on the paper.
This is just grandstanding.
Actually, Senator Reed said he was needed if they were going to get the Republicans on board. Obama is the one not needed. He carried no weight in the Senate and has always just gone along with the crowd.
Actually, even Senator Reed should not be needed. This is a done deal, the deal just has to be approved. Bonzo, from the Ronald Reagan movie "Bonzo Goes to Washington" would be good enough.
All a bunch of politicians will manure for brains could do is run off at the mouth like the attention whores they are, and screw things up. Just listen to the disgust from Paulson and Bernicke at the politicaians idiotic comments.
You are free to have your opinion on these matters; but they have nothing to do with what is going on in Washington.
This isn't going on in Washington. It already went down, Washington just needs to rubber stamp the decision. The Powers That Be have already decided.
Don't you understand what Treasury and the Fed do? The United States government no longer calls the shots over the US economy. There is no choice of action here, it is either act, or meltdown.
Have I been the only one watching the Cspan coverage on this? This is far from a "done deal". Both Obama and McCain need to stop throwing mud for a second and get down in it with the rest of the senators. They need to be writing this thing instead of acting like innocent bystanders waiting by with a mop to clean it up, they are both senators, this is their job, they both have way too many NV's it is about time they pull their heads out and DO something when it counts instead of dodging bullets to not be held accountable. They are both just as accountable for what happnes here as the rest of our senators, and they should be the ones asking the most important questions here. Currently there is NOTHING set in stone, and from the looks of it there is no way any sane senator could pass this the way it stands. I am amazed it took both McCain and Obama this long to pull their heads out and get involved with this. This issue is more serious than the elections, the debates or anything else they have going right now and needs 100% of their full attention. I for one do not accept that they "were too busy campaigning" to be bothered with an issue that is as important as this. They need to get down therer and write something that is passable, and will help the situation rather than act like they have no power to stop this BS proposal that does not state how they are going to fix things, where the money is going at the tax payers expense and not be able to be held accountable for anything they do in the process nonsense. It looks to me like they were presented with somthing noone could pass, and then they want to try to blame it on the senators if it doesn't pass, and that is total bs. There have been other propsals that do not give them absolute power and these need to be considered. NO ONE is above the law, especially it's leaders.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now. All they are arguing about is minor details, they have no choice over the main direction. All the political leadership is needed for is to tell the bimbos in their respective parties to shut up and get with the program, and quickly. America does not have the luxury of time.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
Have I been the only one watching the Cspan coverage on this? This is far from a "done deal". Both Obama and McCain need to stop throwing mud for a second and get down in it with the rest of the senators. They need to be writing this thing instead of acting like innocent bystanders waiting by with a mop to clean it up, they are both senators, this is their job, they both have way too many NV's it is about time they pull their heads out and DO something when it counts instead of dodging bullets to not be held accountable. They are both just as accountable for what happnes here as the rest of our senators, and they should be the ones asking the most important questions here. Currently there is NOTHING set in stone, and from the looks of it there is no way any sane senator could pass this the way it stands. I am amazed it took both McCain and Obama this long to pull their heads out and get involved with this. This issue is more serious than the elections, the debates or anything else they have going right now and needs 100% of their full attention. I for one do not accept that they "were too busy campaigning" to be bothered with an issue that is as important as this. They need to get down therer and write something that is passable, and will help the situation rather than act like they have no power to stop this BS proposal that does not state how they are going to fix things, where the money is going at the tax payers expense and not be able to be held accountable for anything they do in the process nonsense. It looks to me like they were presented with somthing noone could pass, and then they want to try to blame it on the senators if it doesn't pass, and that is total bs. There have been other propsals that do not give them absolute power and these need to be considered. NO ONE is above the law, especially it's leaders.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
show me where this is a done deal. Links? I have been watching the live coverage on Cspan, and the senators that have been addressing this do not agree with the wording, and are demanding more oversight since they presented it with a clause that puts them above the law.. From all of the senators I have watched they have said there is no way they can do this in it's present form, and needs to be reworded and more regulation added before they will even consider it. Both republidcans and Democrats are oopsed to it as it stands.
Have I been the only one watching the Cspan coverage on this? This is far from a "done deal". Both Obama and McCain need to stop throwing mud for a second and get down in it with the rest of the senators. They need to be writing this thing instead of acting like innocent bystanders waiting by with a mop to clean it up, they are both senators, this is their job, they both have way too many NV's it is about time they pull their heads out and DO something when it counts instead of dodging bullets to not be held accountable. They are both just as accountable for what happnes here as the rest of our senators, and they should be the ones asking the most important questions here. Currently there is NOTHING set in stone, and from the looks of it there is no way any sane senator could pass this the way it stands. I am amazed it took both McCain and Obama this long to pull their heads out and get involved with this. This issue is more serious than the elections, the debates or anything else they have going right now and needs 100% of their full attention. I for one do not accept that they "were too busy campaigning" to be bothered with an issue that is as important as this. They need to get down therer and write something that is passable, and will help the situation rather than act like they have no power to stop this BS proposal that does not state how they are going to fix things, where the money is going at the tax payers expense and not be able to be held accountable for anything they do in the process nonsense. It looks to me like they were presented with somthing noone could pass, and then they want to try to blame it on the senators if it doesn't pass, and that is total bs. There have been other propsals that do not give them absolute power and these need to be considered. NO ONE is above the law, especially it's leaders.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
show me where this is a done deal. Links? I have been watching the live coverage on Cspan, and the senators that have been addressing this do not agree with the wording, and are demanding more oversight since they presented it with a clause that puts them above the law.. From all of the senators I have watched they have said there is no way they can do this in it's present form, and needs to be reworded and more regulation added before they will even consider it. Both republidcans and Democrats are oopsed to it as it stands.
Link, Ha, Ha, Ha, VERY FUNNY.
The United States lost control over our economy the weekend of the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae nationalization. We are no longer calling the shots. What Paulson and Bernanke know is that this deal either comes down before Congress recesses or you will have total economic meltdown. There is no time for Congress to piddle, twiddle, and resolve.
There is no acceptable 'partial" solution. Either our government acknowledges that the US taxpayer eats the cost of this mistake, or our economy ceases to function. Already auto loan interest rates are going anywhere from 12% to 25%, and business cannot get loans. You don't want to know what it takes to get a mortgage this week, 30% downpayment.
I explained in another post that the Kuwait, China, and Korean central banks are about to divest themselves of dollars. Actually, they have been doing this for some time already. Like I said to Baff, you sell high, and buy low. For example, you can sell US dollars at a 30%-40% loss, buy them back at 2%, and if they rebound to 4% double your money. That is how you make money in a Bear Market.
That is why our market fluxuates so wildly over several days. Selling off dollars is not lethal to them, it is not a closed one time transaction, it is an opportunity to make more money.
Have I been the only one watching the Cspan coverage on this? This is far from a "done deal". Both Obama and McCain need to stop throwing mud for a second and get down in it with the rest of the senators. They need to be writing this thing instead of acting like innocent bystanders waiting by with a mop to clean it up, they are both senators, this is their job, they both have way too many NV's it is about time they pull their heads out and DO something when it counts instead of dodging bullets to not be held accountable. They are both just as accountable for what happnes here as the rest of our senators, and they should be the ones asking the most important questions here. Currently there is NOTHING set in stone, and from the looks of it there is no way any sane senator could pass this the way it stands. I am amazed it took both McCain and Obama this long to pull their heads out and get involved with this. This issue is more serious than the elections, the debates or anything else they have going right now and needs 100% of their full attention. I for one do not accept that they "were too busy campaigning" to be bothered with an issue that is as important as this. They need to get down therer and write something that is passable, and will help the situation rather than act like they have no power to stop this BS proposal that does not state how they are going to fix things, where the money is going at the tax payers expense and not be able to be held accountable for anything they do in the process nonsense. It looks to me like they were presented with somthing noone could pass, and then they want to try to blame it on the senators if it doesn't pass, and that is total bs. There have been other propsals that do not give them absolute power and these need to be considered. NO ONE is above the law, especially it's leaders.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now. All they are arguing about is minor details, they have no choice over the main direction. All the political leadership is needed for is to tell the bimbos in their respective parties to shut up and get with the program, and quickly. America does not have the luxury of time.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
actually, you obviously aren't following it. It's far from a done deal. Unless of course you believe that the shapeshifting reptiles from the fourth dimension are behind it all, and the fix is in.
Have I been the only one watching the Cspan coverage on this? This is far from a "done deal". Both Obama and McCain need to stop throwing mud for a second and get down in it with the rest of the senators. They need to be writing this thing instead of acting like innocent bystanders waiting by with a mop to clean it up, they are both senators, this is their job, they both have way too many NV's it is about time they pull their heads out and DO something when it counts instead of dodging bullets to not be held accountable. They are both just as accountable for what happnes here as the rest of our senators, and they should be the ones asking the most important questions here. Currently there is NOTHING set in stone, and from the looks of it there is no way any sane senator could pass this the way it stands. I am amazed it took both McCain and Obama this long to pull their heads out and get involved with this. This issue is more serious than the elections, the debates or anything else they have going right now and needs 100% of their full attention. I for one do not accept that they "were too busy campaigning" to be bothered with an issue that is as important as this. They need to get down therer and write something that is passable, and will help the situation rather than act like they have no power to stop this BS proposal that does not state how they are going to fix things, where the money is going at the tax payers expense and not be able to be held accountable for anything they do in the process nonsense. It looks to me like they were presented with somthing noone could pass, and then they want to try to blame it on the senators if it doesn't pass, and that is total bs. There have been other propsals that do not give them absolute power and these need to be considered. NO ONE is above the law, especially it's leaders.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
show me where this is a done deal. Links? I have been watching the live coverage on Cspan, and the senators that have been addressing this do not agree with the wording, and are demanding more oversight since they presented it with a clause that puts them above the law.. From all of the senators I have watched they have said there is no way they can do this in it's present form, and needs to be reworded and more regulation added before they will even consider it. Both republidcans and Democrats are oopsed to it as it stands.
Yep that's what I've been seeing as well. I actually watch them as well.
Have I been the only one watching the Cspan coverage on this? This is far from a "done deal". Both Obama and McCain need to stop throwing mud for a second and get down in it with the rest of the senators. They need to be writing this thing instead of acting like innocent bystanders waiting by with a mop to clean it up, they are both senators, this is their job, they both have way too many NV's it is about time they pull their heads out and DO something when it counts instead of dodging bullets to not be held accountable. They are both just as accountable for what happnes here as the rest of our senators, and they should be the ones asking the most important questions here. Currently there is NOTHING set in stone, and from the looks of it there is no way any sane senator could pass this the way it stands. I am amazed it took both McCain and Obama this long to pull their heads out and get involved with this. This issue is more serious than the elections, the debates or anything else they have going right now and needs 100% of their full attention. I for one do not accept that they "were too busy campaigning" to be bothered with an issue that is as important as this. They need to get down therer and write something that is passable, and will help the situation rather than act like they have no power to stop this BS proposal that does not state how they are going to fix things, where the money is going at the tax payers expense and not be able to be held accountable for anything they do in the process nonsense. It looks to me like they were presented with somthing noone could pass, and then they want to try to blame it on the senators if it doesn't pass, and that is total bs. There have been other propsals that do not give them absolute power and these need to be considered. NO ONE is above the law, especially it's leaders.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now. All they are arguing about is minor details, they have no choice over the main direction. All the political leadership is needed for is to tell the bimbos in their respective parties to shut up and get with the program, and quickly. America does not have the luxury of time.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
actually, you obviously aren't following it. It's far from a done deal. Unless of course you believe that the shapeshifting reptiles from the fourth dimension are behind it all, and the fix is in.
Nope, as I've stated earlier, the US lost control of our economy the weekend that Freddie Mac and Fannie May were nationalized. This deal was written by foreign central banks for approval by the US government that the US taxpayers would foot the bill for the failure, not the foreign central banks.
You can talk shapeshifting reptiles from the fourth dimension all you want, the US has just been given an ultimatum. Bush, Paulson, Bernanke, and the Congressional leadership know it. The American taxpayer will pay, all the rest is window dressing.
Those central banks want their answer before the Congressional recess.
The terms of this Bailout are what are being negotiated, and they definately need to be. There is no way anyone can pass it with this "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency" clause in it. The treasury secretary is about to leave office... There WILL be more oversight and accountability put into this or there is no way it can pass. I swear the treasury secretary must have said "broad" 42 times in like 5 min when under heavy fire by senators. Dodd said himself he has never heard of such a clause or seen such a clause presented to him in any legislation in all his years.. This is unacceptable, and must be changed for it to pass. limits must be set, it needs boundaries or there is no way it can be passable. regardless of the urgency of this they need to work night and day to come up with something that is even remotely pasable to make this work. I do think however the people that were responsible for this mess should have to pay this off, not just the public. Everyone is being punished for the incompetence of a few, and the few that caused this mess should be held accountable. I think all CEOs from these failed companies should have their assets frozen and their millions from their pockets should be put towards this. I think that the ones who caused this mess should be held accountable and should no longer be in a position to cause a mess like this again.. period.
The terms of this Bailout are what are being negotiated, and they definately need to be. There is no way anyone can pass it with this "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency" clause in it. The treasury secretary is about to leave office... There WILL be more oversight and accountability put into this or there is no way it can pass. I swear the treasury secretary must have said "broad" 42 times in like 5 min when under heavy fire by senators. Dodd said himself he has never heard of such a clause or seen such a clause presented to him in any legislation in all his years.. This is unacceptable, and must be changed for it to pass. limits must be set, it needs boundaries or there is no way it can be passable. regardless of the urgency of this they need to work night and day to come up with something that is even remotely pasable to make this work. I do think however the people that were responsible for this mess should have to pay this off, not just the public. Everyone is being punished for the incompetence of a few, and the few that caused this mess should be held accountable. I think all CEOs from these failed companies should have their assets frozen and their millions from their pockets should be put towards this. I think that the ones who caused this mess should be held accountable and should no longer be in a position to cause a mess like this again.. period.
Who do you think wrote that clause, Paulson? That clause was put in their by the foreign central banks so they had a "go to" guy that had the authority to say "how high" when they said "jump". As you, yourself, pointed out, Paulson is on his way out, that language doesn't even apply to him.
That language is so flagrantly un-democratic and un-American it could NEVER have come out of a US administration, not even the Bush administration, no matter what you think of Bush. But ask yourself, could it have come out of Kuwait, or China?
You should be asking yourself where this bill was actually written. If you still answer Washington.......
NOBODY likes this bill, frankly, I'm willing to bet that Bush doesn't even like it. It's an ultimatum delivered to the United States by foreign central banks. That bill is our unconditional surrender.
LOL My Ameriacn answer to that is to tell them to "stick it where the sun don't shine." and we tell them to back off or we create our own currency. We make this currency the only currency you can pay US taxes with thus giving it value. Just as Abe lincoln once did which utterly terrified them. We create our own credit and we will be out of debt in a few years.
The terms of this Bailout are what are being negotiated, and they definately need to be. There is no way anyone can pass it with this "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency" clause in it. The treasury secretary is about to leave office... There WILL be more oversight and accountability put into this or there is no way it can pass. I swear the treasury secretary must have said "broad" 42 times in like 5 min when under heavy fire by senators. Dodd said himself he has never heard of such a clause or seen such a clause presented to him in any legislation in all his years.. This is unacceptable, and must be changed for it to pass. limits must be set, it needs boundaries or there is no way it can be passable. regardless of the urgency of this they need to work night and day to come up with something that is even remotely pasable to make this work. I do think however the people that were responsible for this mess should have to pay this off, not just the public. Everyone is being punished for the incompetence of a few, and the few that caused this mess should be held accountable. I think all CEOs from these failed companies should have their assets frozen and their millions from their pockets should be put towards this. I think that the ones who caused this mess should be held accountable and should no longer be in a position to cause a mess like this again.. period.
Who do you think wrote that clause, Paulson? That clause was put in their by the foreign central banks so they had a "go to" guy that had the authority to say "how high" when they said "jump". As you, yourself, pointed out, Paulson is on his way out, that language doesn't even apply to him.
That language is so flagrantly un-democratic and un-American it could NEVER have come out of a US administration, not even the Bush administration, no matter what you think of Bush. But ask yourself, could it have come out of Kuwait, or China?
You should be asking yourself where this bill was actually written. If you still answer Washington.......
NOBODY likes this bill, frankly, I'm willing to bet that Bush doesn't even like it. It's an ultimatum delivered to the United States by foreign central banks. That bill is our unconditional surrender.
I have heard about this ... watch those "money masters" videos .. then try to debunk them .. all I found was information confirming what they had said. Though there are ways out of this mess, but the world banks won't be real happy about them.
LOL My Ameriacn answer to that is to tell them to "stick it where the sun don't shine." and we tell them to back off or we create our own currency. We make this currency the only currency you can pay US taxes with thus giving it value. Just as Abe lincoln once did which utterly terrified them. We create our own credit and we will be out of debt in a few years.
Which is why it will never be told to the American people that way. Americans don't like to lose. This will be painted as a great victory for bi-partisanship, and the end result will be the American taxpayer will pay for this mistake, not the foreign central banks.
In exchange, we get credit, and cheap products.
The alternative is no credit, massive unemployment, economic meltdown. We become just like Russia in the 1990's, and our government will fall.
Comments
No one said anything about canceling the debate.
postponing... there, sorry i didnt mean to totally invalidate my post by using the word cancel instead of postpone.
But what difference would postponing a FOREIGN POLICY debate have on what we know about their views on the financial crisis?
Plus the cure for cancer analogy is DEEPLY flawed; try using an ebola outbreak or some similar contagious disease that might wipe us all out. he is taking a break from bullspit (a campaign) to do his JOB (senate). Obama has chosen politics over country, like he has always done.
Now watch how this play might play out. McCain goes to washington, gets the job done, and because Obama refused to postpone, he shows up and debates anyway. He then kicks his butt because it IS foreign policy, something he knows better than Obama. Obama goes from the childish "I can walk and chew gum at the same time" crap to being able to trip and choke on his gum at the same time.
I'm not so sure that's how it's gonna go -- but if I were mCCain, I would have had it all planned out this way, KNOWING Obama would say what he did, and react the way he did, because it is SOO easy to push his buttons
Now, explain what McCain is going to do, that he cant do over the phone, i assume he is going to talk, i cant imagine him rolling up his sleaves to start tackling the finacial crisis, its not like there is anything he can contribute that he cant do over the phone and if he absolutly has to be there in person, why not relocate the debats.
And obviously the debate should have the topic changed to focus on the finacial situation, there is no rule saying the subject cannot be changed.
I agree with much of what you say, but Senator Reed, the DEMOCRAT, asked him to come own there yesterday. In response, McCain suspended his campaign and asked Obama to do the same. Obama refused. The rest will play out in a most interesting manner.
Just watch how it goes down. Remember, you heard it here first. Obama is a terrible chess player.
fishermage.blogspot.com
he didn't have to because his JOB (Senator) didn't call for it. This week, it does, Senator Reed stated yesterday that McCain was needed there if they were going to get any action on this thing. Love him or hate him, once again. when duty calls, McCain is answering.
Obama on the other hand, plays politics as usual.
Yeah, John McCains move today was is no way political move to try and stop the hemorraging of poll numbers and end the perceived anger at the republican party over the Presidents the bailout plan. anger that is spreading like mad over party lines. No, It was just pure love of country and duty.
Ah yes once again the typical snotty retort (the crazy person smiley -- how mature of you) from a true partisan. Looks like I can push your buttons as easily as McCain can push Obama's.
He is not having a hemoraging of poll numbers; they are all pretty even except for the ABC poll which surveyed 2/3 as many democrats as republicans. All other polls are within the margin of error.
You can see things the way you want. Remember,m I'm not a McCain supporter. I just enjoy politics as theater; and this is some good theater I am witnessing. I'll still probably vote for Barr, even though there are things I don't like about him either.
We'll see how independents react to this. Obama, in his childish reaction, has stepped in it. Watch. Just remember you heard it from me first.
fishermage.blogspot.com
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/congress.mccain.reaction/
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the candidates' presence could be a distraction during the talks.
"I understand that the candidates are putting together a joint statement at Sen. Obama's suggestion. But it would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process or distract important talks about the future of our nation's economy," Reid said Wednesday.
"If that changes, we will call upon them. We need leadership, not a campaign photo op."
You were saying?
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/congress.mccain.reaction/
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the candidates' presence could be a distraction during the talks.
"I understand that the candidates are putting together a joint statement at Sen. Obama's suggestion. But it would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process or distract important talks about the future of our nation's economy," Reid said Wednesday.
"If that changes, we will call upon them. We need leadership, not a campaign photo op."
You were saying?
Reid said that AFTER he said McCain was needed (yesterday). he changed his position to suit Obama's.
Watch.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Do you have a source or is this just what you've heard?
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Do you have a source or is this just what you've heard?
ABC news radio about am hour ago. Give it time, it'll show up on the internet
As I said, watch. You must have more patience than your candidate. Watch how this all plays out. Obama stepped in it. YOu don't think McCain KNEW Obama was going to react the way he did? You don't think he had a third move? Watch.
fishermage.blogspot.com
As a registered Independant thats voted Republican the last 4 elections, I think I've shown more patience than either of these two running out there to see who gets face time first over this story. Our lives and the economy are not a show piece and thats exactly what both are doing, although McCain in my opinion is making quite a bigger show than Obama of it. I saw no real concern from either until the shit hit the fan last week. Both are concerned with polls and leads in the race and to think its any true concern is lauaghable.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
As a registered Independant thats voted Republican the last 4 elections, I think I've shown more patience than either of these two running out there to see who gets face time first over this story. Our lives and the economy are not a show piece and thats exactly what both are doing, although McCain in my opinion is making quite a bigger show than Obama of it. I saw no real concern from either until the shit hit the fan last week. Both are concerned with polls and leads in the race and to think its any true concern is lauaghable.
Sorry, I assumed you were an Obama supporter from your tone. My apologies.
Actually if you've been following the issue. McCain has shown concern for years; so has Bush. The democrats in congress blocked any reforms.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I guess you guys were right about not counting McCain out of the race just yet. In fact I'd say that Obama may have just cost himself the Presidency because he doesn't want to be caught saying yes or no to the bill. He is scared.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
I guess you guys were right about not counting McCain out of the race just yet. In fact I'd say that Obama may have just cost himself the Presidency because he doesn't want to be caught saying yes or no to the bill. He is scared.
Exactly. let's say McCain goes down there, manages to work out a compromise bill, gets the Republicans to go along with it (because as it stands now they are not); the thing passes. He looks like a hero, Obama looks like a politician, especially if McCain does it all by Friday and makes the debate.
This is why I love this game
fishermage.blogspot.com
Obama was class President at Harvard Law School, and Chicago's greatest leader of all time. Please don't claim he hasn't been a leader, because that is clearly not the case.
Also, his campaign is a sign of his leadership as well. No other presidential candidate has been responsible for as many new voter registrations as Obama's compaign. They have already registered 40,000 new voters in MN alone! We are not that large of a state either!
Obama was class President at Harvard Law School, and Chicago's greatest leader of all time. Please don't claim he hasn't been a leader, because that is clearly not the case.
Also, his campaign is a sign of his leadership as well. No other presidential candidate has been responsible for as many new voter registrations as Obama's compaign. They have already registered 40,000 new voters in MN alone! We are not that large of a state either!
he never led anything in Chicago. What did he lead there? President of harvard? What does that entail?
Leading in Voter registration????? Diddy does that. That's not leadership -- at least not how we usually define it.
Campaign? sorry he doesn't run his campaign. He has people for that.
hehehe we'll have to agree to disagree on this as well. But, I would like some example of one act of leadership he did in Chicago.
fishermage.blogspot.com
In that he is not a leader in the Senate, and has never been a leader in anything in his life, they don't need him in Washington. This frees him to play politics while the real men and women in the Senate do their jobs.
Nor is McCain needed. The only time they will be needed in Washington is to vote on the bailout bill. If put together correctly by the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve, it will just be a ministirial act, nothing more than a formal ratification bill. It can pass without either of their votes.
Look, neither McCain nor Obama have to write the bill. Treasury will give both party leaders in the House and the Senate (which is neither Obama and McCain) what is needed. You honestly don't think that the bunch of chimpanzees in the US Congress is going to be asked to sit down and write an economic bailout bill independantly of Treasury and Fed Reserve do you?
Hell, they couldn't agree on who holds the pen, let alone actually agree on the words to put on the paper.
This is just grandstanding.
Actually, Senator Reed said he was needed if they were going to get the Republicans on board. Obama is the one not needed. He carried no weight in the Senate and has always just gone along with the crowd.
Actually, even Senator Reed should not be needed. This is a done deal, the deal just has to be approved. Bonzo, from the Ronald Reagan movie "Bonzo Goes to Washington" would be good enough.
All a bunch of politicians will manure for brains could do is run off at the mouth like the attention whores they are, and screw things up. Just listen to the disgust from Paulson and Bernicke at the politicaians idiotic comments.
You are free to have your opinion on these matters; but they have nothing to do with what is going on in Washington.
This isn't going on in Washington. It already went down, Washington just needs to rubber stamp the decision. The Powers That Be have already decided.
Don't you understand what Treasury and the Fed do? The United States government no longer calls the shots over the US economy. There is no choice of action here, it is either act, or meltdown.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now. All they are arguing about is minor details, they have no choice over the main direction. All the political leadership is needed for is to tell the bimbos in their respective parties to shut up and get with the program, and quickly. America does not have the luxury of time.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
show me where this is a done deal. Links? I have been watching the live coverage on Cspan, and the senators that have been addressing this do not agree with the wording, and are demanding more oversight since they presented it with a clause that puts them above the law.. From all of the senators I have watched they have said there is no way they can do this in it's present form, and needs to be reworded and more regulation added before they will even consider it. Both republidcans and Democrats are oopsed to it as it stands.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
show me where this is a done deal. Links? I have been watching the live coverage on Cspan, and the senators that have been addressing this do not agree with the wording, and are demanding more oversight since they presented it with a clause that puts them above the law.. From all of the senators I have watched they have said there is no way they can do this in it's present form, and needs to be reworded and more regulation added before they will even consider it. Both republidcans and Democrats are oopsed to it as it stands.
Link, Ha, Ha, Ha, VERY FUNNY.
The United States lost control over our economy the weekend of the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae nationalization. We are no longer calling the shots. What Paulson and Bernanke know is that this deal either comes down before Congress recesses or you will have total economic meltdown. There is no time for Congress to piddle, twiddle, and resolve.
There is no acceptable 'partial" solution. Either our government acknowledges that the US taxpayer eats the cost of this mistake, or our economy ceases to function. Already auto loan interest rates are going anywhere from 12% to 25%, and business cannot get loans. You don't want to know what it takes to get a mortgage this week, 30% downpayment.
I explained in another post that the Kuwait, China, and Korean central banks are about to divest themselves of dollars. Actually, they have been doing this for some time already. Like I said to Baff, you sell high, and buy low. For example, you can sell US dollars at a 30%-40% loss, buy them back at 2%, and if they rebound to 4% double your money. That is how you make money in a Bear Market.
That is why our market fluxuates so wildly over several days. Selling off dollars is not lethal to them, it is not a closed one time transaction, it is an opportunity to make more money.
You will never see that said anywhere.
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now. All they are arguing about is minor details, they have no choice over the main direction. All the political leadership is needed for is to tell the bimbos in their respective parties to shut up and get with the program, and quickly. America does not have the luxury of time.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
actually, you obviously aren't following it. It's far from a done deal. Unless of course you believe that the shapeshifting reptiles from the fourth dimension are behind it all, and the fix is in.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
show me where this is a done deal. Links? I have been watching the live coverage on Cspan, and the senators that have been addressing this do not agree with the wording, and are demanding more oversight since they presented it with a clause that puts them above the law.. From all of the senators I have watched they have said there is no way they can do this in it's present form, and needs to be reworded and more regulation added before they will even consider it. Both republidcans and Democrats are oopsed to it as it stands.
Yep that's what I've been seeing as well. I actually watch them as well.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Actually, this is a "done deal". All that Congress needs to do is ratify a decision that has been made by various foreign central banks as to who eats this mess now. All they are arguing about is minor details, they have no choice over the main direction. All the political leadership is needed for is to tell the bimbos in their respective parties to shut up and get with the program, and quickly. America does not have the luxury of time.
The American taxpayer has just been thrown under the bus.
actually, you obviously aren't following it. It's far from a done deal. Unless of course you believe that the shapeshifting reptiles from the fourth dimension are behind it all, and the fix is in.
Nope, as I've stated earlier, the US lost control of our economy the weekend that Freddie Mac and Fannie May were nationalized. This deal was written by foreign central banks for approval by the US government that the US taxpayers would foot the bill for the failure, not the foreign central banks.
You can talk shapeshifting reptiles from the fourth dimension all you want, the US has just been given an ultimatum. Bush, Paulson, Bernanke, and the Congressional leadership know it. The American taxpayer will pay, all the rest is window dressing.
Those central banks want their answer before the Congressional recess.
The terms of this Bailout are what are being negotiated, and they definately need to be. There is no way anyone can pass it with this "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency" clause in it. The treasury secretary is about to leave office... There WILL be more oversight and accountability put into this or there is no way it can pass. I swear the treasury secretary must have said "broad" 42 times in like 5 min when under heavy fire by senators. Dodd said himself he has never heard of such a clause or seen such a clause presented to him in any legislation in all his years.. This is unacceptable, and must be changed for it to pass. limits must be set, it needs boundaries or there is no way it can be passable. regardless of the urgency of this they need to work night and day to come up with something that is even remotely pasable to make this work. I do think however the people that were responsible for this mess should have to pay this off, not just the public. Everyone is being punished for the incompetence of a few, and the few that caused this mess should be held accountable. I think all CEOs from these failed companies should have their assets frozen and their millions from their pockets should be put towards this. I think that the ones who caused this mess should be held accountable and should no longer be in a position to cause a mess like this again.. period.
Who do you think wrote that clause, Paulson? That clause was put in their by the foreign central banks so they had a "go to" guy that had the authority to say "how high" when they said "jump". As you, yourself, pointed out, Paulson is on his way out, that language doesn't even apply to him.
That language is so flagrantly un-democratic and un-American it could NEVER have come out of a US administration, not even the Bush administration, no matter what you think of Bush. But ask yourself, could it have come out of Kuwait, or China?
You should be asking yourself where this bill was actually written. If you still answer Washington.......
NOBODY likes this bill, frankly, I'm willing to bet that Bush doesn't even like it. It's an ultimatum delivered to the United States by foreign central banks. That bill is our unconditional surrender.
Understand this, we just lost an economic war.
LOL My Ameriacn answer to that is to tell them to "stick it where the sun don't shine." and we tell them to back off or we create our own currency. We make this currency the only currency you can pay US taxes with thus giving it value. Just as Abe lincoln once did which utterly terrified them. We create our own credit and we will be out of debt in a few years.
Who do you think wrote that clause, Paulson? That clause was put in their by the foreign central banks so they had a "go to" guy that had the authority to say "how high" when they said "jump". As you, yourself, pointed out, Paulson is on his way out, that language doesn't even apply to him.
That language is so flagrantly un-democratic and un-American it could NEVER have come out of a US administration, not even the Bush administration, no matter what you think of Bush. But ask yourself, could it have come out of Kuwait, or China?
You should be asking yourself where this bill was actually written. If you still answer Washington.......
NOBODY likes this bill, frankly, I'm willing to bet that Bush doesn't even like it. It's an ultimatum delivered to the United States by foreign central banks. That bill is our unconditional surrender.
Understand this, we just lost an economic war.
Got a link proving this stuff you are saying?
fishermage.blogspot.com
I have heard about this ... watch those "money masters" videos .. then try to debunk them .. all I found was information confirming what they had said. Though there are ways out of this mess, but the world banks won't be real happy about them.
Which is why it will never be told to the American people that way. Americans don't like to lose. This will be painted as a great victory for bi-partisanship, and the end result will be the American taxpayer will pay for this mistake, not the foreign central banks.
In exchange, we get credit, and cheap products.
The alternative is no credit, massive unemployment, economic meltdown. We become just like Russia in the 1990's, and our government will fall.
We lost....