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Can Mythic beat Blizzard in one area we can ALL cheer for?

=-=-=-http://www.massively.com/2008/09/22/jacobs-swings-the-banhammer-with-abandon-in-warhammer-online/

http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/a-banning-we-will-go-a-banning-we-will-go-heave-ho-off-the-servers-yo-a-banning-we-will-go/

Since WAR launched we have been banning these jerks like crazy. As of Saturday Night, we had banned about 400 of them. My CSRs have a zero tolerance policy. We don’t wait and let them stay in the game and ban them en-masse, my guys ban their useless, time-consuming butts right away. We have a strike team whose sole job it is to get these guys off our servers as quickly as possible.-=-=-=

 

Now if you go to WAR's website, check out the herald, they have over 1000 Gold Farmers and their spam bots so far BANNED.

 

I played WoW long enough to absolutely detest gold farmers, with a passion almost as fierce as Mr. Jacobs.   If WAR bombs, WoW soars higher, let's all hope they take Mythic's stance and act accordingly!

 

 



 

Always change your signature.

Comments

  • LiqqLiqq Member Posts: 17

      I had a message pop up in game last night on my server. I find the rp route they take when announcing the banning quite humorous, and I'm glad Mythic is being active about gold sellers/spammers. I know before my WOW account expired I would be plagued with constant tells even on my dead no pop server.

     I still don't know why they are even bothering to sell gold for Warhammer. All you really need any significant amount of gold for is a mount and I almost have all mine strictly from questing/rvr at only level 18.

  • MrVicchioMrVicchio Member Posts: 598
    Originally posted by Liqq


      I had a message pop up in game last night on my server. I find the rp route they take when announcing the banning quite humorous, and I'm glad Mythic is being active about gold sellers/spammers. I know before my WOW account expired I would be plagued with constant tells even on my dead no pop server.
     I still don't know why they are even bothering to sell gold for Warhammer. All you really need any significant amount of gold for is a mount and I almost have all mine strictly from questing/rvr at only level 18.

     

    Because it's an MMO, and it's a way to make money  "easy".    I just hope that Mythic's very VERY proactive stance against the gold sellers becomes an industry norm.    It would be even better if they can, and do ban gold BUYERS as well.  THAT would take the cake.

     

    Blizzard, should take this page from Mythic so all gamers can cheer.

    Always change your signature.

  • dreamsfadedreamsfade Member UncommonPosts: 339

     I only wish Blizzard would implement something like this to their GMs. Mythic has such quick response time to banning gold-sellers its outstanding.



    Kudos to Mythic!

     

    image
  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    Originally posted by Liqq


      I had a message pop up in game last night on my server. I find the rp route they take when announcing the banning quite humorous, and I'm glad Mythic is being active about gold sellers/spammers. I know before my WOW account expired I would be plagued with constant tells even on my dead no pop server.
     I still don't know why they are even bothering to sell gold for Warhammer. All you really need any significant amount of gold for is a mount and I almost have all mine strictly from questing/rvr at only level 18.

     

    Because it's an MMO, and it's a way to make money  "easy".    I just hope that Mythic's very VERY proactive stance against the gold sellers becomes an industry norm.    It would be even better if they can, and do ban gold BUYERS as well.  THAT would take the cake.

     

    Blizzard, should take this page from Mythic so all gamers can cheer.



    Umm... Blizzard has been very active against gold sellers. Wow got overwhelmed for a while, because honestly the gold selling market exploded with WoW. There was far more money to be made and the sellers got professional and organized more than they were in the past. Blizzard has done a nice job of banning and making life hard on the sellers without much if any impact on the players.

    Blizzard as far as I know is the only company to take gold sellers to courts.... and won. The same with bot program creators... and won.

    I am glad to see Mythic come right out and make a positive stance and I just love that they publically announce it.

    I know Blizzard and Turbine both ban people for buying gold (some temporary some permanent) and I suspect Mythic will also, but the all need to make that very visible to the public gamer. As long as the players do not fear repercussions from buying gold, there will always be a market.

     

     

    Screw companies that get in bed with these companies like funcom and SOE. 

     

     

  • dreamsfadedreamsfade Member UncommonPosts: 339
    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    Originally posted by Liqq


      I had a message pop up in game last night on my server. I find the rp route they take when announcing the banning quite humorous, and I'm glad Mythic is being active about gold sellers/spammers. I know before my WOW account expired I would be plagued with constant tells even on my dead no pop server.
     I still don't know why they are even bothering to sell gold for Warhammer. All you really need any significant amount of gold for is a mount and I almost have all mine strictly from questing/rvr at only level 18.

     

    Because it's an MMO, and it's a way to make money  "easy".    I just hope that Mythic's very VERY proactive stance against the gold sellers becomes an industry norm.    It would be even better if they can, and do ban gold BUYERS as well.  THAT would take the cake.

     

    Blizzard, should take this page from Mythic so all gamers can cheer.

     

    If they were to ban gold buyers as well then that would be a huge lost to their profit. Weather you want to believe or not more than you imagine buys gold. Not everyone has the time to spend to farm it themselves with real life going on.

    Banning the buyers would be a stupid thing to do as the company would lose thousands and thousands of players.

    image
  • MrVicchioMrVicchio Member Posts: 598

    Banning buyers kills the source of the bad guys profits.  

     

    People that buy gold, suck.  Period.

    Always change your signature.

  • IAmMMOIAmMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,462
    Originally posted by Mizzoufan

    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    Originally posted by Liqq


      I had a message pop up in game last night on my server. I find the rp route they take when announcing the banning quite humorous, and I'm glad Mythic is being active about gold sellers/spammers. I know before my WOW account expired I would be plagued with constant tells even on my dead no pop server.
     I still don't know why they are even bothering to sell gold for Warhammer. All you really need any significant amount of gold for is a mount and I almost have all mine strictly from questing/rvr at only level 18.

     

    Because it's an MMO, and it's a way to make money  "easy".    I just hope that Mythic's very VERY proactive stance against the gold sellers becomes an industry norm.    It would be even better if they can, and do ban gold BUYERS as well.  THAT would take the cake.

     

    Blizzard, should take this page from Mythic so all gamers can cheer.

     

    If they were to ban gold buyers as well then that would be a huge lost to their profit. Weather you want to believe or not more than you imagine buys gold. Not everyone has the time to spend to farm it themselves with real life going on.

    Banning the buyers would be a stupid thing to do as the company would lose thousands and thousands of players.

      I'm sorry that's a pathetic rubbish excuse used by those to who buy gold to try justify their actions. Those who can't play as many hours in a week as others still can achieve a decent level of wealth as those who play more. It just takes a bit longer with the time investment they can give the games, especially WOW and WAR.

      Where did you get your imaginary numbers of accounts that would be lost? Gold buyers certainly aren't the majority of people with in your average MMO community. It doesn't take many who do buy gold to throw an MMO's economy out of whack. The small percentage that do buy is enough to fuel those farming companies because of exchange rates, but big enough to ruin many a MMO economy. There's no excuse for buying gold, expect if you're a very selfish individual.

     

  • HrothmundHrothmund Member Posts: 1,061
    Originally posted by IAmMMO

    Originally posted by Mizzoufan

    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    Originally posted by Liqq


      I had a message pop up in game last night on my server. I find the rp route they take when announcing the banning quite humorous, and I'm glad Mythic is being active about gold sellers/spammers. I know before my WOW account expired I would be plagued with constant tells even on my dead no pop server.
     I still don't know why they are even bothering to sell gold for Warhammer. All you really need any significant amount of gold for is a mount and I almost have all mine strictly from questing/rvr at only level 18.

     

    Because it's an MMO, and it's a way to make money  "easy".    I just hope that Mythic's very VERY proactive stance against the gold sellers becomes an industry norm.    It would be even better if they can, and do ban gold BUYERS as well.  THAT would take the cake.

     

    Blizzard, should take this page from Mythic so all gamers can cheer.

     

    If they were to ban gold buyers as well then that would be a huge lost to their profit. Weather you want to believe or not more than you imagine buys gold. Not everyone has the time to spend to farm it themselves with real life going on.

    Banning the buyers would be a stupid thing to do as the company would lose thousands and thousands of players.

      I'm sorry but, that's just a pathetic rubbish excuse used by those to who buy gold to try justify their actions against the negative impact it has on the game. Those who can't play as many hours in a week as others still can achieve a decent level of weath as those who play more. It just takes a bit longer with the time investment they can give the games, especailly WOW and WAR.

     

    Exactly, if you are an instant gratification yearning moron who doesn't get the point, shod off! If you do not have the time to invest you do not deserve the rewards, much like in real life. No pain no gain.

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459


    Originally posted by MrVicchio
    Banning buyers kills the source of the bad guys profits.  
     
    People that buy gold, suck.  Period.

    I agree totally that gold buyers and sellers are the bain of MMO's and there should be positive action against them, but how long will Mythic be able to keep this up in reality. For every one they publicly ban, how many are completing transactions behind closed doors and are not being caught, which of course Mythic are not going to admit to.

    Then of course you have to ask how many people who are perfectly innocent are going to be benned before the community starts to kick off as unfortunately when you start to enforce things like this in such a manner, innocents will be caught in the crossfire.

    The other aspect of taking such a public and sharp stance against this sort of thing is that it just forces the gold sellers and bot'ers to adapt and find better, more secretive ways to do what they do sooner than they would have otherwise, thus making Mythics job harder meaning that they will have to invest a lot more time in tracking these things down which will ultimately be to the detriment of the players.

    Again, i applaude any measure to stamp out this sort of thing in MMO's, but lets see how they are doing in 6 or 12 months time before we call it a success.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    All you have to do is put the FEAR of being banned into the mindset of the players and the majority will comply.  You are thinking in complete black and white terms when you think a company cannot survive without people that buy gold.

     

    A ban doesn't have to be forever.  First offense: ban them for 3-7 days or more if they buy a larger amount.  Brand them with a title for a week "the Cheater".  Something as long as it becomes very common knowledge that you will eventually get caught and end up losing out by partaking in gold sales.

     

     

    Right now people do it, because there are no risks to buying gold.  All the risk is on the gold seller and as long as they are making more money than it costs to sell gold they will just keep coming back.

     

     

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459


    Originally posted by Daffid011
    All you have to do is put the FEAR of being banned into the mindset of the players and the majority will comply.  You are thinking in complete black and white terms when you think a company cannot survive without people that buy gold.
     

    Hmmmm, that must be why prisons the world over are completely empty because the FEAR of being arrested is so much in the mindset.

    That only works for people who do actually FEAR being caught, it doesn't take into account those that couldn't care less either way. As far as the sellers are concerned, they have nothing real to fear as long as they make more money than it has cost them for the account (nothing if they can hijack them of course).

    As i mentioned before, all this public humiliation does is force the sellers/botters to work faster on ways to get around the system and they will. The problem for Mythic and more importantly the players is that they then need to devote more and more resources to a campaign like this and then it is all down to who breaks first, Mythic or the sellers/botters and i know who my money would be on every time :(

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • LocklainLocklain Member Posts: 2,154

    The only way to do away with gold sellers is to sell gold from the company.  If you continue to ban their spammers and beat their prices on gold they will eventually view it as a lost cause and move on.  The problem with this is that it would destroy anything and everything about the economy in the game. 

    So basically it all boils down to the consumer.  If you don't buy gold they will go away.

    It's a Jeep thing. . .
    _______
    |___image|
    \_______/
    = image||||||image =
    |X| \*........*/ |X|
    |X|_________|X|
    You wouldn't understand
  • marco30marco30 Member Posts: 2

    Yeah , sure , and then the game will have no economy at all ...

  • LocklainLocklain Member Posts: 2,154
    Originally posted by marco30


    Yeah , sure , and then the game will have no economy at all ...

    Yes, I am well aware of that.  That's why if you read my whole post you would have noticed what else I wrote.

    It's a Jeep thing. . .
    _______
    |___image|
    \_______/
    = image||||||image =
    |X| \*........*/ |X|
    |X|_________|X|
    You wouldn't understand
  • AzrileAzrile Member Posts: 2,582

    WOW was hit harder because it has 20x's the potential customers as any other MMORPG.  If you are in the gold-selling business, of course you are going to target WOW.

    Blizzard did a decent job with the update they had about a year ago.  I rarely see a gold-spammer, and when I do it takes one click to report them and put them on ignore.  You also rarely see gold-farmers in game any more.

    Its nice to see Warhammer being tough.. but I think using GMs isn't a viable option.. that takes them away from customers.  It's better to have a 'system' in place rather then making humans do it.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by jason_webb


     

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    All you have to do is put the FEAR of being banned into the mindset of the players and the majority will comply.  You are thinking in complete black and white terms when you think a company cannot survive without people that buy gold.

     

     

    Hmmmm, that must be why prisons the world over are completely empty because the FEAR of being arrested is so much in the mindset.

     

    I didn't say it would remove gold selling entirely, which is why I said the majority would comply.  Unless your point is that the majority of the population is in prison.  Otherwise you missed my point.

     

    You can put in whatever systems you want to fight the gold sellers, but as long as there is safty for PLAYERS to look for gold to buy, there is no reason for them not to.  As long as there are players freely looking to buy gold, people will sell it. 

     

    Like I said, put the fear of losing access to the game or your account and maybe enough people will stop buying gold to make it not worth while for gold sellers to stay in business.  I know it sound crazy, but it might work...

     

     

  • ScalebaneScalebane Member UncommonPosts: 1,883
    Originally posted by MrVicchio


    =-=-=-http://www.massively.com/2008/09/22/jacobs-swings-the-banhammer-with-abandon-in-warhammer-online/
    http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/a-banning-we-will-go-a-banning-we-will-go-heave-ho-off-the-servers-yo-a-banning-we-will-go/
    Since WAR launched we have been banning these jerks like crazy. As of Saturday Night, we had banned about 400 of them. My CSRs have a zero tolerance policy. We don’t wait and let them stay in the game and ban them en-masse, my guys ban their useless, time-consuming butts right away. We have a strike team whose sole job it is to get these guys off our servers as quickly as possible.-=-=-=
     
    Now if you go to WAR's website, check out the herald, they have over 1000 Gold Farmers and their spam bots so far BANNED.
     
    I played WoW long enough to absolutely detest gold farmers, with a passion almost as fierce as Mr. Jacobs.   If WAR bombs, WoW soars higher, let's all hope they take Mythic's stance and act accordingly!
     
     


     

     

    Hmm blizzard bans alot of them but since its a larger game base i think more are spamming, and if i remember correctly blizzard actually took one of them to court and won, but i do love what war is doing, wish blizz would put up a meter of something for bannings like that heh.

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459


    Originally posted by Daffid011
    Originally posted by jason_webb  

    Originally posted by Daffid011
    All you have to do is put the FEAR of being banned into the mindset of the players and the majority will comply.  You are thinking in complete black and white terms when you think a company cannot survive without people that buy gold.
     
     
    Hmmmm, that must be why prisons the world over are completely empty because the FEAR of being arrested is so much in the mindset.



     
    I didn't say it would remove gold selling entirely, which is why I said the majority would comply.  Unless your point is that the majority of the population is in prison.  Otherwise you missed my point.
     
    You can put in whatever systems you want to fight the gold sellers, but as long as there is safty for PLAYERS to look for gold to buy, there is no reason for them not to.  As long as there are players freely looking to buy gold, people will sell it. 
     
    Like I said, put the fear of losing access to the game or your account and maybe enough people will stop buying gold to make it not worth while for gold sellers to stay in business.  I know it sound crazy, but it might work...
     
     

    Sorry, i didn't mean to come off as sarcastic, the point i didn't make very well was that those that would buy gold in the first place know that they are doing something wrong and already know that they could be banned for it and yet they do it anyway. The point is that whatever they do publicly in the game or otherwise will not matter to those that are determined to break the rules anyway.

    The other point that i did miss out was that after a time, those sort of in-game announcements will just become background noise that everyone will ignore anyway, thus negating the impact of them.

    As far as Blizzard is concerned on this matter they have been very active indeed in banning huge numbers of accounts (didn't they ban something like 30,000 accounts in May alone?) and even more so on the legal side of things by actively taking the creators of these gold selling operations and Bot's to task down the legal route, but as we all know, that takes time.

    As i said earlier, it is a good start for Mythic, but in reality it is very early days and we will have to see where they are with controlling this sort of thing in 6-12 months time at least to see if it has had any real or lasting effect.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • DreamagramDreamagram Member Posts: 798

    While I definitely appreciate the effort, I can't help but comparing banning of gold farmers to stomping out ants in your garden.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Jason,

     

    I agree with you that the announcements will become background noise, but it is a positive step.

     

    As for people who break the rules not being detered, I disagree.  It isn't just the people are "breaking the rules" and can get banned.  It is that it is almost unheard of to hear of players getting banned for buying gold.  Buying gold in MMOs is becoming somewhat socially acceptable.  It isn't just hardcore cheaters, it is people who are starting to see this type of action as appropriate and not causing any harm, because they don't see the direct impact.

     

    If companies put any effort into making it very public that they are banning and penalizing people for BUYING gold, then it would really put a dent into the practice.   I am of the opinion that companies can do whatever they want to make it hard on the sellers, but if the players fear no penalties then they will just keep selling.

     

     

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459


    Originally posted by Daffid011
    If companies put any effort into making it very public that they are banning and penalizing people for BUYING gold, then it would really put a dent into the practice.   I am of the opinion that companies can do whatever they want to make it hard on the sellers, but if the players fear no penalties then they will just keep selling.
     
     

    We will have to agree to disagre on this one as many companies have made it very public that they are dealing with gold sellers with all the power they have at their disposal, but as it is not entirely a criminal matter there is little that they can do in reality. Blizzard have made it known several times that they have banned thousands of players in a single day, but even though it has combatted the problem to a certain degree it has not solved the overall problem.

    At the moment i see Mythics attempts as nothing more than a publicity stunt that is designed to create a false image of security within the game when the reality from what i see on the forums is that gold seller spam is still around in abundance and rising. Add to this that they have not even created a trial period for the game yet, there is much more to come.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    You are right that there is more publicity to mythics plan about ingame messages, but it is a step in the right direction and at least makes a statement.  However, imagine if the message being broadcast was about players being banned for buying gold.  That would produce a whole different result.

     

    As for Blizzards banning anoucements, they are good and all.  They all pretty much talk about botters, gold sellers/spammers and exploiters.  Not much about gold buyers.

     

    I'm not disagreeing that companies are not putting up the good fight against the sellers, just that they are overlooking a much easier avenue.  Even if  it only instills the fear of getting caught, which right now is completely absent.  Reality or not.

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