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Which mmo to thank for 'the grind'?
nomadian
Member Posts: 3,490
Which mmo was it that invented it?
Comments
EQ did with the hell lvls when it first came out.
I enjoy grinding.
Ultima Online. You grinded everything you wanted to use in that game.
I would go with EQ. That game was king of grinds, and like someone else said "hell levels" so what did we do? yep we socialised and adventured
EQ was never ending. Sniff...dont get me started...i love you Q... come back to me..... but old EQ how we once knew you.....just plain old EQ and the all time best ever expansion of any game...KUNARK!
Ultima Online could be easily macro'ed and the items didnt get crazy til UO-R, which was after EQ showed them how insane people get about lootz
It was really EQ as far as I know. Especially with Raiding. Think about WoW and what it would be like w/o raiding. Thats where the extreme grind hits- end game. Thank you Sony-EQ
EQ would be your answer but in all fairness when the game first came out levels were not the main idea of the game really........EQ was designed for more social aspects and for exploration rather than just grinding levels as fast as you can to raid at end game........Im not even sure if the original release had many raid targets for players to go after.......I never really thought of EQ as 'grinding" until PoP came out with the crazy progressions and heavy focus on raiding......In the early years I always thought of EQ as "where do I want to explore today" rather than "I have to hit level 50 today".......
I would say EQ. As they shifted the focus to end game raiding for uber gear and with PoP the insane key collecting to unlock more for more raiding and more uber gear collecting it became more neccessary to be max level to have anything to do.
Themepark games invented it.
Games like Everquest.
Boring games with "grinding" as their endgame.
The very first one that forced or encouraged you to do something you find boring and repetitive in order to get something you wanted. For me that was EQ (as it was my first), but for everyone it is probably your firsrt MMO.
Face it, in every MMO there is something you will find repetitive and boring but you will do it because you feel the reward will justify it. Medding? Gear grinding, rep grinding, skill grinding, craft grinding. There was something.
Venge Sunsoar
Everquest.
They totally ruined the game with their one boring expansion after another.
Faction Grind, Raid Grind, Level Grind, Alternative Advancement Grind, Augment Grind, Zone Access Grind, Tradeskill combine Grind, Skill Grind.
You name any grind you want, Everquest has it. All packed in a never ending ultimate boring and never updated yawnfest.
The game has evolved to the point where players need to multibox to have anyone to play with.
I don't know, "grind" is the trademark of the MMORPG genre, w/o the grind, you don't have an MMORPG, you have a FPS or adventure game.
So all MMO's have some sort of grind, even UO had you grinding skills up and there' really aren't many games that haven't forced you to grind for money, no matter how they're designed.
Another poster said it, I hit the grind in every MMO I've ever played, and I dare say even MUDDs had grind.
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I need to correct you on your application of the term "Themepark game".
The term was invented after WoW was released and describes games such as WoW and Warhammer etc. which seek to shorten the leveling process and lessen the " so called grind" of games like Everquest. Themepark games are designed to mimic the short instant gratification of a thrill ride. The developers of these types of games don't want lengthy real world MMOG application of immersion and "so called grind" . They want players to be able to quickly access the content they have decided is fun, without having to earn their way to get there.
I personally like old school lengthy "grinding" MMOGs where one has to earn their way. It provides a much longer game, time frame wise, and for me it's all about the journey.
No MMO invented it, it is and always will be people playing these games who for some reason grind these games. For me there is NO grind in MMORPG. For others it seems there is.
No MMO invented it, it is and always will be people playing these games who for some reason grind these games.
Untrue. There's a difference between people choosing to grind and games reinforcing and stimulating it.
Everquest does the later. It reinforces it and replaces content with timesinks. In that case it's not just the player, it's mostly the game that allows this sad excuse for gameplay to happen.
For me, grinding starts where quests end. I don't particularly scorn quests with a number of monster kills/drops unless them come in an unexpected number (e.g. you have to kill this certain monster a total of 200 times) which also seems like grinding to me.
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The one called "The players".
Its the journey, not the destination. If a game is grindy, its you. (Unless it’s a game that is catering to that type of self punishment, such as SOTNW)
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Every MMO has "grinding" in one form or another but Everquest went from "fun" to downright silly. You know somethings smells when you people argue, fight and contest over a rare drop item off a once a once a day (24hours) mob that dies 15 secs the moment it spawns. Not to mention getting keys off a long quest chain that required you to kill a once a week mob with at least 30 to 40 people (at its introduction, later when people had better gear it got easier, but to get better gear...) but only drops at best 4 keys. Do the math on this one.
Everquest would have been better named, Evercamp N Grind.
If we don't have a "grind" (e.g. character levels or skill training), then is the game even a rpg anymore? Isn't the entire point of the genre to build your character up over time? Isn't then building your character the very definition of a grind?
I admit, I'm sick of people complaining about grinding in mmos. Without the grind then you don't have much more then a fps in mmo form.
I need to correct you on your application of the term "Themepark game".
The term may have been invented after WoW was released, but the term was used in this context ALWAYS:
"WoW is a themepark game, like EQ was." And Themepark was used to describe "seeing meaningless attractions," (Like the Rebel Theme Park, Imperial theme Park, And Jabba's Palce in SWG) nothing about the grind, my friend.
EQ apologists like to redefine the word themepark so their game does not get the blame for WoW which was directly spawned from EQ-like MMORPG development.
The grind will always be there, it's all about who can cover it up best. What i can't understand is why half-arsed AI, auto-attack, the lack of interactivity and actual change in the game world have turned into trademarks for this genre. For over 10 years there should've been at least some improvement in those areas.
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Anyone remember the Veeshan's Peak key?
Probably not, because it took weeks upon weeks just to get a single key that got you into the raid.
Then there was the Vex' Thal key, woohoo!
Oh and of course the Epic weapon quests. And when they said Epic, they meant it.
Number of Coldain Heads collected: 2,987,365 and still scowling.
I do. And I did like 3 epics lol.
The hardest thing with 1.5 and 2.0 was getting people to help you, it was often harder than grinding.
nobody "invented" it, it's the result of using the same 37 year old system of RNG conflict resolution. you roll a nat 20, you hit the goblin. you kill the goblin, it's worth 100 xp, you need 400000 more to level
what's bad is that we're still using that today to resolve conflicts when our computers have evolved the ability to do more than decide if 3 > 17
Sanbox games invented it.
Games like UO.
Even now I have nightmares about crafting 100000 shirts, hours of mining or casting 1000 spells to gain 0.1 in magic skill - not better then grinding exp. It's still in EvE (hehe mining asteroids anyone?), was in pre-cu SWG (mad skill grind for crafetrs).
Well, don't take this too seriously
Both type of games has grind, I only wated to show you, how silly is Aragarn100's post. It not depends on game type (sanbox/linear, pvp/pve) but on game itself.