So you still want to claim this is an alpha test. Well I hate to break it to you but the definitions don't match up. Finally: who ever said this thread was our game v. your game. This thread is about the df beta. No other game has been a major part of this thread.
See, you just did something that is totally inapplicable here with these people--you posted factual information to back up an argument.
This causes a short-circuit in the DF troll's brain. Often resulting in a flurry of ill-conceived, poorly thought out and disasteroulsly organized posts. Sometimes causing explosive nerd rage leading to grossly impossible claims, such as being in thousands of betas.
{Deleted post edited out}
its already started so waist of apost the hardware testing part but meh they ahve a client to test it thats all that matters
Originally posted by damian7 being catty on semantics and nerd-raging because someone didn't agree with the wikipedia.org's definition of alpha and beta testings (because normal dictionary definitions are notoriously limited and a good decade behind pop culture, whereas the wikipedia is a living document... so using the wikipedia in this discussion was a logical alternative to a standard dictionary...) is no reason to pretend that an apple is an orange. <more nonsense involving non-sequiturs, abuse of paragraphs and crippled thinking>
Copied from an earlier post: The DF Troll thought process!
Aventurine announces upcoming video. Trolls: haha video won't happen!
Video comes out: LOL! Just a video, the game is vaporware still!
Beta is announced: OMG WTF, no way the beta will ever actually happen!
-> Initial round of beta begins: LOLZ its not a real beta! *(pay attention here)
...fast forward into the near future:
Full closed beta begins: Uh...um sure uh GODZ N HEROES DIED IN CB HAHA
Open beta begins and ends: Er....
Release date announced, subscription plans & launch events revealed: Um...uh...
DF released: HAHA ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY, EVERYBODY PLAYING DF IS LYING, THERE IS NO GAME, ITS JUST A TRICK, LOLOLOLOLololol.....
I think we can see where you're at, at the moment.
First of I want to note that Wikipedia is hardly a place for reliable information. Sure it's a good thing that it is updated often, but it is also updated by whoever. There is a reason why Wikipedia is absolutely not allowed as a source in any serious research or at any university. With this I'm not saying that the alternative is completely right either.
Secondly I want to say something as a fellow Darkfall community member. The fans in here really need to open their eyes and first of all read what the critics say and then think critically about things. Cause if you didn't get yourself so worked up, you would probably have noticed that most of them have been saying a few things only, from the beginning:
We do not know if Darkfall will release within the year.
We do not know if Darkfall will be a great game.
This announcement is not solid proof of Darkfalls release or greatness.
All of which are true. I hope myself that Darkfall will release this year. Do I believe it? Not sure. Do I know it? Absolutely not. Anything can happen.
Will it be a great game? Well theoretically. And they seem to be aware of many issues. But having the right plan and idea doesn't mean the implementation goes perfect. We can just hope.
And Darkfall critics,
Most of you had good points from the beginning and not at all the worst kind of Vaporware-trolling that you get accused of. But when you say things like "I've been in beta more times than you have had breakfast." you give up your chances of winning this thread in the eyes of a neutral. Now both sides look equally stupid.
Cause what it all comes down to in the end is that we do not know. It looks more likely now that Darkfall will be released in the near future, but we do not know that it will great. However, there are reasons to be excited and reasons to hope. But all we can do, both critics and fans, is wait and see what happens to all the ideas and talk.
It seems that some people have been putting words in my mouth again.
The only two arguments I have made is that it is not impossible that Aventurine will be able to meet there production schedule and that the current testing is a form of beta testing.
I'm truly sorry if anyone has inferred anything else from my statements.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
First of I want to note that Wikipedia is hardly a place for reliable information. Sure it's a good thing that it is updated often, but it is also updated by whoever. There is a reason why Wikipedia is absolutely not allowed as a source in any serious research or at any university. With this I'm not saying that the alternative is completely right either.
Secondly I want to say something as a fellow Darkfall community member. The fans in here really need to open their eyes and first of all read what the critics say and then think critically about things. Cause if you didn't get yourself so worked up, you would probably have noticed that most of them have been saying a few things only, from the beginning: We do not know if Darkfall will release within the year. We do not know if Darkfall will be a great game. This announcement is not solid proof of Darkfalls release or greatness. All of which are true. I hope myself that Darkfall will release this year. Do I believe it? Not sure. Do I know it? Absolutely not. Anything can happen. Will it be a great game? Well theoretically. And they seem to be aware of many issues. But having the right plan and idea doesn't mean the implementation goes perfect. We can just hope.
And Darkfall critics, Most of you had good points from the beginning and not at all the worst kind of Vaporware-trolling that you get accused of. But when you say things like "I've been in beta more times than you have had breakfast." you give up your chances of winning this thread in the eyes of a neutral. Now both sides look equally stupid.
Cause what it all comes down to in the end is that we do not know. It looks more likely now that Darkfall will be released in the near future, but we do not know that it will great. However, there are reasons to be excited and reasons to hope. But all we can do, both critics and fans, is wait and see what happens to all the ideas and talk.
Wikipedia is fine here. It is not something you would want to use as a reference in a serious, scholarly paper, but that is far from what we are dealing with here.
The main issue is, as I stated above, that each time Aventurine announces something is about to happen, the trolls say "nope, won't happen". Then it does, and a quick backstep later, we get "well....it happened, but its not REALLY happening", or something to that effect.
This time it was something about the beta not being a "real" beta.
Anybody who can read and understand information can see the comically crippled reasoning being used here. Specifically, it's called belief perserverence, also known as confirmation bias (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias - oh noes! wikipedia!).
Basically, what happens is that there is a natural tendency to reinforce ones own beliefs. If it stopped there, we might be OK, but the problem is that it involves reinforcing one's own belief in the face of absolutely overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Its the classic problem in a doomsday cult--the leader predicts that the world will end on midnight or a certain day...the day comes, and passes, and of course nothing has happened. What do you think the followers do upon seeing themselves proved wrong? Kick the leader in the nuts and walk away?
Nope, they come up with some backwards reasoning about how either the prediction's specifics were wrong, but the world is still REALLY going to end soon, or that they saved the world through faithfullness, or some other completely nonsensical crap.
Intelligent, educated people can fall prey to this phenomenon just like everyone else, but there seems to be a certain segment of humanity that really gets hung up on it--a cluster of low intelligence, poor education, desperation, and gullibility.
I firmly believe that we will have some people here, when beta is in full swing, when the NDA is lifted, who really will claim that the game is a hoax. Something about DF in particular brings out the dumbest people on these forums.
We had a guy, with over 10,000 posts claiming, in all seriousness, that what Aventurine wasn't a "real" beta. After being repeatedly given detailed descriptions and insight on software development and the beta process, he claimed to have been in THOUSANDS of betas. His last response (curiously deleted by the mods here) was that he really did have an intelligent response to a number of serious, factual issues he had failed to address, but that I had hurt his feelings so much that he didn't feel the need to:
"You know what, I have a serious answer to both of your points. However I don't feel any need whatsoever to give a serious reply to your posts."
Scary stuff. A 10k+ post member, active since 2004.
There's really nowhere to go with the troll-types here. Reason doesn't apply. Normal, logical thinking is absent. All we can do is point them out and laugh, and make sure people who are actually open-minded and curious about DF see all their nonsense get rebuffed.
Will it come out in 2008? I'd give it about 75%. We don't yet know how far they've gone in internal testing. If its in reasonably good shape, they have a good chance of making it this year. Even if it is delayed till 2009, I can think of only one game that was canceled in full beta--Gods & Heroes--which by all accounts had seriously design flaws, and was a rarity amongst near-release games.
Will it be a great game? Let's put it this way--after the utter debacles of the past few years (AoC, VG), the stunning mediocrity and boredom of WAR, the legions of Asian cash-shop grinder clones...I have more faith in DF than anything else on the plate for a near-future release. I can't take the Western ez-mode formula, or the asian grind-your-life-away-and-pay-us-for-extra-stuff formula. Alot of people here are the same.
Is the announcement solid proof of release / greatness? Solid proof is having the game in your hands, playing the beta yourself, or reading detailed accounts from somebody who is. The game isn't out yet, we're not in the beta, and the NDA prevents that kind of detailed reporting. So no, not solid proof, but I don't think people were asking the same things about, say, WAR, as it went into the early CB. Double standards, anyone? This is about as concrete a sign as possible at this point, which means we'll find out soon whether it is a great game, or not.
You know terminal I just stopped reading that mess you wrote. Since you can't seem to grasp the point being made. There is NO confirmation of any beta going on. Since Adventurine has lied multiple times about it in the past, anyone with any ability to reason would be quite skeptical about the current announcements.
Hey if they actually get beta going next month, more power to them. A lot of us would like to see the game released. Just that none of us are holding are breath, as it has become quite obvious you can't trust Adventurine to follow through.
You know terminal I just stopped reading that mess you wrote. Since you can't seem to grasp the point being made. There is NO confirmation of any beta going on. Since Adventurine has lied multiple times about it in the past, anyone with any ability to reason would be quite skeptical about the current announcements.
Hey if they actually get beta going next month, more power to them. A lot of us would like to see the game released. Just that none of us are holding are breath, as it has become quite obvious you can't trust Adventurine to follow through.
{ Mod Edit }
If you stopped reading, how can you evaluate it as unintelligible?
I see that mentioning and describing a psychological principle just overloaded you. Sorry.
Read, think, and reply with something thoughtful. Otherwise, you're just background noise, and an object of derision.
You know terminal I just stopped reading that mess you wrote. Since you can't seem to grasp the point being made. There is NO confirmation of any beta going on. Since Adventurine has lied multiple times about it in the past, anyone with any ability to reason would be quite skeptical about the current announcements. Hey if they actually get beta going next month, more power to them. A lot of us would like to see the game released. Just that none of us are holding are breath, as it has become quite obvious you can't trust Adventurine to follow through. { Mod Edit }
Yes, there have been promises of soontm. However, the developers have never before claimed to have started a Beta.
Note: For those that do not understand soontm: the df developers have become so famous of using the word soon and not producing anything, that it is jokingly called there own personal trademark. This also partly explains the abundance of vaporware trolls.)
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Originally posted by flakmonky Originally posted by Ozmodan You know terminal I just stopped reading that mess you wrote. Since you can't seem to grasp the point being made. There is NO confirmation of any beta going on. Since Adventurine has lied multiple times about it in the past, anyone with any ability to reason would be quite skeptical about the current announcements. Hey if they actually get beta going next month, more power to them. A lot of us would like to see the game released. Just that none of us are holding are breath, as it has become quite obvious you can't trust Adventurine to follow through. { Mod Edit }
Yes, there have been promises of soontm. However, the developers have never before claimed to have started a Beta. Note: For those that do not understand soontm: the df developers have become so famous of using the word soon and not producing anything, that it is jokingly called there own personal trademark. This also partly explains the abundance of vaporware trolls.)
Blizzard already has the trademark.
The definition in which it may be 4-6 weeks or days counting on what the person is using.
Otherwise there is another soon. the Blizzard "soon" which can be a very LONG time 6-24 months actually. The Battle.net Tournaments are temporarily unavailable, but will return soon.
They posted on the boards closed beta started on the 22nd.
6-24 months has nothing on three years. Also, Blizzard uses quotes.
Oh, and this thread is about that beta announcement, so I would hope that eveyone posting here knows about it.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Comments
See, you just did something that is totally inapplicable here with these people--you posted factual information to back up an argument.
This causes a short-circuit in the DF troll's brain. Often resulting in a flurry of ill-conceived, poorly thought out and disasteroulsly organized posts. Sometimes causing explosive nerd rage leading to grossly impossible claims, such as being in thousands of betas.
{Deleted post edited out}its already started so waist of apost the hardware testing part but meh they ahve a client to test it thats all that matters
You really should learn to spell, or at least use a spell check.
really looking forward to an ACTUAL beta. (meaning open :P)
Copied from an earlier post: The DF Troll thought process!
Aventurine announces upcoming video. Trolls: haha video won't happen!
Video comes out: LOL! Just a video, the game is vaporware still!
Beta is announced: OMG WTF, no way the beta will ever actually happen!
-> Initial round of beta begins: LOLZ its not a real beta! *(pay attention here)
...fast forward into the near future:
Full closed beta begins: Uh...um sure uh GODZ N HEROES DIED IN CB HAHA
Open beta begins and ends: Er....
Release date announced, subscription plans & launch events revealed: Um...uh...
DF released: HAHA ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY, EVERYBODY PLAYING DF IS LYING, THERE IS NO GAME, ITS JUST A TRICK, LOLOLOLOLololol.....
I think we can see where you're at, at the moment.
First of I want to note that Wikipedia is hardly a place for reliable information. Sure it's a good thing that it is updated often, but it is also updated by whoever. There is a reason why Wikipedia is absolutely not allowed as a source in any serious research or at any university. With this I'm not saying that the alternative is completely right either.
Secondly I want to say something as a fellow Darkfall community member. The fans in here really need to open their eyes and first of all read what the critics say and then think critically about things. Cause if you didn't get yourself so worked up, you would probably have noticed that most of them have been saying a few things only, from the beginning:
We do not know if Darkfall will release within the year.
We do not know if Darkfall will be a great game.
This announcement is not solid proof of Darkfalls release or greatness.
All of which are true. I hope myself that Darkfall will release this year. Do I believe it? Not sure. Do I know it? Absolutely not. Anything can happen.
Will it be a great game? Well theoretically. And they seem to be aware of many issues. But having the right plan and idea doesn't mean the implementation goes perfect. We can just hope.
And Darkfall critics,
Most of you had good points from the beginning and not at all the worst kind of Vaporware-trolling that you get accused of. But when you say things like "I've been in beta more times than you have had breakfast." you give up your chances of winning this thread in the eyes of a neutral. Now both sides look equally stupid.
Cause what it all comes down to in the end is that we do not know. It looks more likely now that Darkfall will be released in the near future, but we do not know that it will great. However, there are reasons to be excited and reasons to hope. But all we can do, both critics and fans, is wait and see what happens to all the ideas and talk.
It seems that some people have been putting words in my mouth again.
The only two arguments I have made is that it is not impossible that Aventurine will be able to meet there production schedule and that the current testing is a form of beta testing.
I'm truly sorry if anyone has inferred anything else from my statements.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Wikipedia is fine here. It is not something you would want to use as a reference in a serious, scholarly paper, but that is far from what we are dealing with here.
The main issue is, as I stated above, that each time Aventurine announces something is about to happen, the trolls say "nope, won't happen". Then it does, and a quick backstep later, we get "well....it happened, but its not REALLY happening", or something to that effect.
This time it was something about the beta not being a "real" beta.
Anybody who can read and understand information can see the comically crippled reasoning being used here. Specifically, it's called belief perserverence, also known as confirmation bias (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias - oh noes! wikipedia!).
Basically, what happens is that there is a natural tendency to reinforce ones own beliefs. If it stopped there, we might be OK, but the problem is that it involves reinforcing one's own belief in the face of absolutely overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Its the classic problem in a doomsday cult--the leader predicts that the world will end on midnight or a certain day...the day comes, and passes, and of course nothing has happened. What do you think the followers do upon seeing themselves proved wrong? Kick the leader in the nuts and walk away?
Nope, they come up with some backwards reasoning about how either the prediction's specifics were wrong, but the world is still REALLY going to end soon, or that they saved the world through faithfullness, or some other completely nonsensical crap.
Intelligent, educated people can fall prey to this phenomenon just like everyone else, but there seems to be a certain segment of humanity that really gets hung up on it--a cluster of low intelligence, poor education, desperation, and gullibility.
I firmly believe that we will have some people here, when beta is in full swing, when the NDA is lifted, who really will claim that the game is a hoax. Something about DF in particular brings out the dumbest people on these forums.
We had a guy, with over 10,000 posts claiming, in all seriousness, that what Aventurine wasn't a "real" beta. After being repeatedly given detailed descriptions and insight on software development and the beta process, he claimed to have been in THOUSANDS of betas. His last response (curiously deleted by the mods here) was that he really did have an intelligent response to a number of serious, factual issues he had failed to address, but that I had hurt his feelings so much that he didn't feel the need to:
"You know what, I have a serious answer to both of your points. However I don't feel any need whatsoever to give a serious reply to your posts."
Scary stuff. A 10k+ post member, active since 2004.
There's really nowhere to go with the troll-types here. Reason doesn't apply. Normal, logical thinking is absent. All we can do is point them out and laugh, and make sure people who are actually open-minded and curious about DF see all their nonsense get rebuffed.
Will it come out in 2008? I'd give it about 75%. We don't yet know how far they've gone in internal testing. If its in reasonably good shape, they have a good chance of making it this year. Even if it is delayed till 2009, I can think of only one game that was canceled in full beta--Gods & Heroes--which by all accounts had seriously design flaws, and was a rarity amongst near-release games.
Will it be a great game? Let's put it this way--after the utter debacles of the past few years (AoC, VG), the stunning mediocrity and boredom of WAR, the legions of Asian cash-shop grinder clones...I have more faith in DF than anything else on the plate for a near-future release. I can't take the Western ez-mode formula, or the asian grind-your-life-away-and-pay-us-for-extra-stuff formula. Alot of people here are the same.
Is the announcement solid proof of release / greatness? Solid proof is having the game in your hands, playing the beta yourself, or reading detailed accounts from somebody who is. The game isn't out yet, we're not in the beta, and the NDA prevents that kind of detailed reporting. So no, not solid proof, but I don't think people were asking the same things about, say, WAR, as it went into the early CB. Double standards, anyone? This is about as concrete a sign as possible at this point, which means we'll find out soon whether it is a great game, or not.
You know terminal I just stopped reading that mess you wrote. Since you can't seem to grasp the point being made. There is NO confirmation of any beta going on. Since Adventurine has lied multiple times about it in the past, anyone with any ability to reason would be quite skeptical about the current announcements.
Hey if they actually get beta going next month, more power to them. A lot of us would like to see the game released. Just that none of us are holding are breath, as it has become quite obvious you can't trust Adventurine to follow through.
{ Mod Edit }
If you stopped reading, how can you evaluate it as unintelligible?
I see that mentioning and describing a psychological principle just overloaded you. Sorry.
Read, think, and reply with something thoughtful. Otherwise, you're just background noise, and an object of derision.
Yes, there have been promises of soontm. However, the developers have never before claimed to have started a Beta.
Note: For those that do not understand soontm: the df developers have become so famous of using the word soon and not producing anything, that it is jokingly called there own personal trademark. This also partly explains the abundance of vaporware trolls.)
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Yes, there have been promises of soontm. However, the developers have never before claimed to have started a Beta.
Note: For those that do not understand soontm: the df developers have become so famous of using the word soon and not producing anything, that it is jokingly called there own personal trademark. This also partly explains the abundance of vaporware trolls.)
Blizzard already has the trademark.
They posted on the boards closed beta started on the 22nd.
6-24 months has nothing on three years.
Also, Blizzard uses quotes.
Oh, and this thread is about that beta announcement, so I would hope that eveyone posting here knows about it.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.