i am NOT doing another grind my eyes out routine again. Shit id rather go play freaking fitness wii. I will say WoTLK is looking ALOT sharper then what TBC did. but screw that. i am not wasteing my time on getting to 80, haveing to grind for all this tier 16 gear ( haha shit, i remember back dureing MC when we joked about tier 6 commeing out, well ...) just to become the almighty slash flexster lawlerskateing roflamao twister that had bounced around in dolanaar for 12 hours straight because there was nothing left to do.
So Calibek, you wanted all those things in WoW for so long, and now that you finally got them, they suddenly suck, and not because they suck, but because it took them this long!?
No it sucks because it sucks, not because it took them so long. They have the lore, players, resources, and other items to do something incredible and, in my eyes, they dropped the ball. Blizzard is known for setting standards and quality and in my opinion wintergrasp is neither. They have the resources to make some epic battles in PvP but after 4 years they're only have 5 battlegrounds and 1 full PvP area with siege and capturable objectives that really isn't even that good.
So Calibek, you wanted all those things in WoW for so long, and now that you finally got them, they suddenly suck, and not because they suck, but because it took them this long!?
No it sucks because it sucks, not because it took them so long. They have the lore, players, resources, and other items to do something incredible and, in my eyes, they dropped the ball. Blizzard is known for setting standards and quality and in my opinion wintergrasp is neither. They have the resources to make some epic battles in PvP but after 4 years they're only have 5 battlegrounds and 1 full PvP area with siege and capturable objectives that really isn't even that good.
You dont change the diet of a winning race horse.. Blizzard have no reason to make huge sweeping changes to WoW thousands.. no millions seem just fine with it as is. Blizzard are adding things slowly.. testing the water to see what players will like. Trowing a bunch of half-assed stuff will please no one.
No it sucks because it sucks, not because it took them so long. They have the lore, players, resources, and other items to do something incredible and, in my eyes, they dropped the ball. Blizzard is known for setting standards and quality and in my opinion wintergrasp is neither. They have the resources to make some epic battles in PvP but after 4 years they're only have 5 battlegrounds and 1 full PvP area with siege and capturable objectives that really isn't even that good.
To be fair, isn't some of the responsibility on the player for this? I mean, it seems like people have complained about BGs becuase it detracts from WorldPvP by removing those PvP inclined players from the non-instanced world, but here is an example of another view that there aren't enough BG's. Additionally, there are PvP objectives in most of the Outland zones so people can participate in WorldPvP if they want (and there is some incentive such as faction rewards etc). From what I can tell, not being in Beta, Wintergrasp seems like the next logical step in the style of PvP WoW has implemented.
So, the mechanics are all in place for players to facilitate large scale PvP. Now, this is purely anecdotal. but before TBC, I can recall most nights of the week, you could find large battles in Ashenvale, XR, Hiilsbrad, etc. This not even on a PvP server. To be fair, the server was RP so perhaps people were more inclined...i couldn't say. The end result is that the players themselves need to be capable of organizing their friends or rallying the masses of Trade chat in order to utilize the mechanics that are there. Otherwise, the instant action of BG is what's available.
Given the 'casual' majority that this game seems to have, Blizzard has done what they need to retain subs and possible lure back some of those that have cancelled. I am sure WAR will keep some of their gains and I am sure it is a great game (haven't played). Ultimately, I'm glad it came out as the hype around it certainly seems to have motivated positive features for WoW.
In the end, everyone will see in the expansion whatever reinforces their current view. If you like WoW, the expansion will excite you. If you dislike WoW, you will find things you don't like.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I just can't wait until Warhammer players see the 3man seige weapons that players move and control... see the dive bombers and fighter planes... see destructable walls, bridges and buildings....
In warhammer, all you do is run up to the front door and push a button. Nothing is tactical or complicated.. it's just a mindless zergfest where the outcome is already determined because of numbers.
And the scenarios??? why in the world did Warhammer copy the two worst battlegrounds in WOW ( AB and WSG). every scenario (except deathball) is exactly like playing WSG or AB on a smaller map. None of the warhammer scenarios is even close to the new Normandy battleground.
Warhammer competes very effectively against WOW from 3 years ago, but WOW today blows away Warhammer today.
Originally posted by Azrile Warhammer competes very effectively against WOW from 3 years ago, but WOW today blows away Warhammer today.
I actually said something similar a week or so ago, right after WAR first came out. I'd say this comment alone is pretty much the sum of all 'WoW vs WAR' debates. WAR fans always want to compare it against Vanilla WoW, or leave out all the PvE content, or somehow claim WAR has more PvE content.
I think the most telling fact in the whole issue though is that Mythic has been "honking their own horn" so to speak since the very beginning, yet WoW's expansion still to this day has unannounced features and content being added every day. I check the patch notes every chance I get, and I'm always being surprised by new spells or talents, new mechanics they've worked out, new zones or bosses or dungeons or whatever. It's a constant flow of "oh cool" that I never got with WAR. I imagine (and have heard from others) that actually playing the expansion itself will have a similar feeling.
So Calibek, you wanted all those things in WoW for so long, and now that you finally got them, they suddenly suck, and not because they suck, but because it took them this long!?
No it sucks because it sucks, not because it took them so long. They have the lore, players, resources, and other items to do something incredible and, in my eyes, they dropped the ball. Blizzard is known for setting standards and quality and in my opinion wintergrasp is neither. They have the resources to make some epic battles in PvP but after 4 years they're only have 5 battlegrounds and 1 full PvP area with siege and capturable objectives that really isn't even that good.
You dont change the diet of a winning race horse.. Blizzard have no reason to make huge sweeping changes to WoW thousands.. no millions seem just fine with it as is. Blizzard are adding things slowly.. testing the water to see what players will like. Trowing a bunch of half-assed stuff will please no one.
In the past 4 years there have been a number of changes to both PvE and PvP. From the old honor system to the new honor system, 3 different changes to AV, 40-man raids being scaled down to 25 and now the 25 ones being available to 10 man and 25 man groups (which is a good thing imo). Blizzard has changed a ton of stuff in the past 4 years. Subsctiption wise they are doing great...doesn't stop people from bitching and complaining about things that could use changing. I mean no offense but if a prize winning race horse's diet was changed as much as a number of aspects of WoW over the years the poor thing would be dead.
No it sucks because it sucks, not because it took them so long. They have the lore, players, resources, and other items to do something incredible and, in my eyes, they dropped the ball. Blizzard is known for setting standards and quality and in my opinion wintergrasp is neither. They have the resources to make some epic battles in PvP but after 4 years they're only have 5 battlegrounds and 1 full PvP area with siege and capturable objectives that really isn't even that good.
To be fair, isn't some of the responsibility on the player for this? I mean, it seems like people have complained about BGs becuase it detracts from WorldPvP by removing those PvP inclined players from the non-instanced world, but here is an example of another view that there aren't enough BG's. Additionally, there are PvP objectives in most of the Outland zones so people can participate in WorldPvP if they want (and there is some incentive such as faction rewards etc). From what I can tell, not being in Beta, Wintergrasp seems like the next logical step in the style of PvP WoW has implemented.
So, the mechanics are all in place for players to facilitate large scale PvP. Now, this is purely anecdotal. but before TBC, I can recall most nights of the week, you could find large battles in Ashenvale, XR, Hiilsbrad, etc. This not even on a PvP server. To be fair, the server was RP so perhaps people were more inclined...i couldn't say. The end result is that the players themselves need to be capable of organizing their friends or rallying the masses of Trade chat in order to utilize the mechanics that are there. Otherwise, the instant action of BG is what's available.
Given the 'casual' majority that this game seems to have, Blizzard has done what they need to retain subs and possible lure back some of those that have cancelled. I am sure WAR will keep some of their gains and I am sure it is a great game (haven't played). Ultimately, I'm glad it came out as the hype around it certainly seems to have motivated positive features for WoW.
In the end, everyone will see in the expansion whatever reinforces their current view. If you like WoW, the expansion will excite you. If you dislike WoW, you will find things you don't like.
The thing here is giving people a number of options. This is one of the few times I will use WAR as an example. You may not like the RvR, you may hate it, you may love it...whatever, the point is they provide a number of ways to get PvP action. Those who like fair fights will go for scenarios, those who like open world will go for keeps and capturable objects. I'm not saying WAR is the end all be all of PvP action (i play the game and like it though there are a few things I would change) or that it is the greatest game ever, that would be totally unfair to com to another board and make those comments and I'm not that type of person to put one game over the other on the other game's board. The point I'm trying to illustrate is they have a number of ways for people to get in on the action. After WotLK there will be 5 BG's and 1 capturable PvP area...in four years and the amount of money they make these items could have been out, fine tuned, and had many more areas to do this in than just waiting for it now. They had a chance to make something great but with certain aspects of WG I feel they dropped the ball and that is my opinion. Some people are going to love wintergrasp. I however and unimpressed. 5 Bg's after 4 years is not a lot. They should have teams dedicated to each area of the game. Listen to the player base to make things better. The one thing I will say is WAR has at least made blizzard push up their game a little bit and started to add things people have been asking for. Most of WoW players played WC3 and I will admit it was a fantastic game. I would just like to see items from there placed here.
After WotLK there will be 5 BG's and 1 capturable PvP area..
Not to nitpick, but don't most Outland zones have "capturable PvP areas". Terrokar has the bone wastes. Hellfire has the towers, Zangar has it's towers, Negrand has Halaa. Each of these is capturable and provides a buff for the holding faction. Some can be flipped immediately and some have timers. This coupled with 5 BG's seem like plenty of ways to get instant PvP action, but that is just my opinion of course.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
the benefits are so negligable that no one even bothers for the most part. Other than the daily for each part no one really cares much about them...maybe a few people here and there but that's about it. Wintergrasp at least offer a lot more benefits to capturing the siege point.
I went there today too! I had a blast, very good experience and pvp XP from it, awesome set up with Seige Weapons and massive PVP battles for hours on end..
Bottom line, WAR is what WOW should've been, atleast in their PVP regard. Why do you think suddenly they care about pvp more and hijack direct ideas from previous games and then claim " unique " credit for them?. Meh whatever, will stay in WAR, less kiddies to worry about.
heh, i can say war hijacked sieges from aoc , it had exactly same static places where you can build xx..
wintergrasp was in development way before there were any info on war sieges..
war sieges are fun in some way.. disapointing in another way ..i do have 31 lvl char which im quitng in warhammer. thats about 10lvls higher than 95% of population..
war is fun and all that.. but it have few issues beyond fixing.. reason i dont see my self playing this game anymore..
aoc have higher chance to come out of its mess than war keeping its 500k subs..
No matter what people say here: if you are only remotely interested in this industry you'll check on WotLK.
If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM.
The game which has between 55% to 60% on average of the complete MMORPG market (including the free subs ones !) can only be measued by actually playing it for a few months when the new expansion comes out.
So you will all take out your old Azeroth heroes from under the rusty dust of Blizzard servers.
If you don't want to do that. NP, but you lost the experience of the next step in MMORPG design. Lake Winter and it's PvP animation with manned tank combat and destructable Keeps is just one step further of Blizzard development in MMO games.
I always have to laugh when people bash Wow with arguments that don't apply anmore to the game.
Some even think that Wow2008 is a pure rading grind game.
Some even think that todays players will be upset by the gear reset (while everyone enjoys the new challenges and are used to these multiple resets every 6 months).
Some think that PvP or BG doesn't give Experience (I get every day 25K or more Exp (lvl 60+) with my leveling character in doing world PvP dailys and Bg's).
Some don't even know what daily heroic dungeons are.
Some don't know that Arena is a true e-sport now with equal geared torunaments.
Some don't know that professions follow the eaxct same trend of newer gear.
Could go on. But they all miss a lot, that I can tell whenever I buy a new game and look into it. From EQ2 to AoC, to LOTRO, to War. At least I play them all (or have played them) and there is not one company that can compete with Blizzard in this field.
No matter how much you cry UO or any other pathetic first generation mess.
No matter what people say here: if you are only remotely interested in this industry you'll check on WotLK. If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM. The game which has between 55% to 60% on average of the complete MMORPG market (including the free subs ones !) can only be measued by actually playing it for a few months when the new expansion comes out. So you will all take out your old Azeroth heroes from under the rusty dust of Blizzard servers.
If you don't want to do that. NP, but you lost the experience of the next step in MMORPG design. Lake Winter and it's PvP animation with manned tank combat and destructable Keeps is just one step further of Blizzard development in MMO games. I always have to laugh when people bash Wow with arguments that don't apply anmore to the game. Some even think that Wow2008 is a pure rading grind game.
Some even think that todays players will be upset by the gear reset (while everyone enjoys the new challenges and are used to these multiple resets every 6 months).
Some think that PvP or BG doesn't give Experience (I get every day 25K or more Exp (lvl 60+) with my leveling character in doing world PvP dailys and Bg's).
Some don't even know what daily heroic dungeons are.
Some don't know that Arena is a true e-sport now with equal geared torunaments.
Some don't know that professions follow the eaxct same trend of newer gear.
Could go on. But they all miss a lot, that I can tell whenever I buy a new game and look into it. From EQ2 to AoC, to LOTRO, to War. At least I play them all (or have played them) and there is not one company that can compete with Blizzard in this field. No matter how much you cry UO or any other pathetic first generation mess.
just like you did me?YEt i wasn't specifically bashing the game but was stateing how much drama it has brought TO the mmo community. ... hm. And i actually completely disagree with you on the competition.
No matter what people say here: if you are only remotely interested in this industry you'll check on WotLK. If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM. The game which has between 55% to 60% on average of the complete MMORPG market (including the free subs ones !) can only be measued by actually playing it for a few months when the new expansion comes out. So you will all take out your old Azeroth heroes from under the rusty dust of Blizzard servers.
If you don't want to do that. NP, but you lost the experience of the next step in MMORPG design. Lake Winter and it's PvP animation with manned tank combat and destructable Keeps is just one step further of Blizzard development in MMO games. I always have to laugh when people bash Wow with arguments that don't apply anmore to the game. Some even think that Wow2008 is a pure rading grind game.
Some even think that todays players will be upset by the gear reset (while everyone enjoys the new challenges and are used to these multiple resets every 6 months).
Some think that PvP or BG doesn't give Experience (I get every day 25K or more Exp (lvl 60+) with my leveling character in doing world PvP dailys and Bg's).
Some don't even know what daily heroic dungeons are.
Some don't know that Arena is a true e-sport now with equal geared torunaments.
Some don't know that professions follow the eaxct same trend of newer gear.
Could go on. But they all miss a lot, that I can tell whenever I buy a new game and look into it. From EQ2 to AoC, to LOTRO, to War. At least I play them all (or have played them) and there is not one company that can compete with Blizzard in this field. No matter how much you cry UO or any other pathetic first generation mess.
just like you did me?YEt i wasn't specifically bashing the game but was stateing how much drama it has brought TO the mmo community. ... hm. And i actually completely disagree with you on the competition.
Well two minutes ago in another post you did say you didn't play other games besides Wow.
So you "completely disagree" without even playing the competition.
No matter what people say here: if you are only remotely interested in this industry you'll check on WotLK. If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM. The game which has between 55% to 60% on average of the complete MMORPG market (including the free subs ones !) can only be measued by actually playing it for a few months when the new expansion comes out. So you will all take out your old Azeroth heroes from under the rusty dust of Blizzard servers.
If you don't want to do that. NP, but you lost the experience of the next step in MMORPG design. Lake Winter and it's PvP animation with manned tank combat and destructable Keeps is just one step further of Blizzard development in MMO games. I always have to laugh when people bash Wow with arguments that don't apply anmore to the game. Some even think that Wow2008 is a pure rading grind game.
Some even think that todays players will be upset by the gear reset (while everyone enjoys the new challenges and are used to these multiple resets every 6 months).
Some think that PvP or BG doesn't give Experience (I get every day 25K or more Exp (lvl 60+) with my leveling character in doing world PvP dailys and Bg's).
Some don't even know what daily heroic dungeons are.
Some don't know that Arena is a true e-sport now with equal geared torunaments.
Some don't know that professions follow the eaxct same trend of newer gear.
Could go on. But they all miss a lot, that I can tell whenever I buy a new game and look into it. From EQ2 to AoC, to LOTRO, to War. At least I play them all (or have played them) and there is not one company that can compete with Blizzard in this field. No matter how much you cry UO or any other pathetic first generation mess.
just like you did me?YEt i wasn't specifically bashing the game but was stateing how much drama it has brought TO the mmo community. ... hm. And i actually completely disagree with you on the competition.
Well two minutes ago in another post you did say you didn't play other games besides Wow.
So you "completely disagree" without even playing the competition.
How thoughtful.
Hm, lol no i actually did not list the other games i have played. For there is no point. you can look to your left and see the majority of the games i have played if you would like or log in to the xbox playstation or nintendo fasites if you wish. but i did not say wow is the only i played. And i do completely disagree. like i said you missed my point.
No matter what people say here: if you are only remotely interested in this industry you'll check on WotLK. If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM.
Hmm, let's quote that again.
"If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM."
Stupid statements like this is why nobody takes you seriously memoir /teamfortress/ bodypass / any other aliases.
Heck, I like WoW but everytime I read one of your posts my desire to pay Wotlk dwindles.
No matter what people say here: if you are only remotely interested in this industry you'll check on WotLK. If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM.
Hmm, let's quote that again.
"If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM."
Stupid statements like this is why nobody takes you seriously memoir /teamfortress/ bodypass / any other aliases.
Heck, I like WoW but everytime I read one of your posts my desire to pay Wotlk dwindles.
No matter what people say here: if you are only remotely interested in this industry you'll check on WotLK. If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM. The game which has between 55% to 60% on average of the complete MMORPG market (including the free subs ones !) can only be measued by actually playing it for a few months when the new expansion comes out. So you will all take out your old Azeroth heroes from under the rusty dust of Blizzard servers.
If you don't want to do that. NP, but you lost the experience of the next step in MMORPG design. Lake Winter and it's PvP animation with manned tank combat and destructable Keeps is just one step further of Blizzard development in MMO games. I always have to laugh when people bash Wow with arguments that don't apply anmore to the game. Some even think that Wow2008 is a pure rading grind game.
Some even think that todays players will be upset by the gear reset (while everyone enjoys the new challenges and are used to these multiple resets every 6 months).
Some think that PvP or BG doesn't give Experience (I get every day 25K or more Exp (lvl 60+) with my leveling character in doing world PvP dailys and Bg's).
Some don't even know what daily heroic dungeons are.
Some don't know that Arena is a true e-sport now with equal geared torunaments.
Some don't know that professions follow the eaxct same trend of newer gear.
Could go on. But they all miss a lot, that I can tell whenever I buy a new game and look into it. From EQ2 to AoC, to LOTRO, to War. At least I play them all (or have played them) and there is not one company that can compete with Blizzard in this field. No matter how much you cry UO or any other pathetic first generation mess.
I disagree...WoW has done nothing to consider themselves to have done anything the next step in MMO design...what because they FINALLY have a siegable area...DAoC had that about 7 years ago.
A person who skips on WotLK has EVERY right to speak out on MMORPG.com about anything. I've played WotLK beta and I can say after giving my input and seeing how the initial design is going to finish out that I will not be buying WotLK, at least not right away. Game is much better than TBC was but it still isn't up to par with Blizzard so called quality.
As for Blizzard being an E-Sport, ha yeah right. Until they can fix their mess of class balance then they really shouldn't be calling their PvP system an E-sport. It's been shown that a certain makeup of classes will almost always beat any other class makeup. An E-Sport is something where regardless, everyone has an equal chance. I don't see that in WoW with class makeup.
WoW also has it's share of problems and is not the end-all-be-all of the MMO genre.
the benefits are so negligable that no one even bothers for the most part. Other than the daily for each part no one really cares much about them...maybe a few people here and there but that's about it. Wintergrasp at least offer a lot more benefits to capturing the siege point.
This is a catch22. If the benefits were any more then negligible people would be complaining that the winning side was too overpowered with the buffs or some such complaint.
So, getting back to the point that there are not many options for PvP action; currently, the options are (on a PvE server for the sake of argument): 4 BG's, Terrokar, Hellfire Penninsula, Zangar Marsh, Negrand, Silithus, Eastern Plaguelands, any number of towns and capitals to raid, and Arenas. Additionally, each Outland zone has a daily PvP quest as well as daily BG quests which provide experience and incentives beyond the typical buff for the winning faction. Other rewards include "marks" or currency to use toward items sold in that zone as, essentially "pvp rewards". I am sure you aware of all this, however, I am just laying out for the sake of illustration.
I know, in my personal (and purely anecdotal of course) experience, people always seem motivated participate in World PvP in Negrand and Terrokar. HFP is usually in play quite a bit as well. To say "no one really cares much about them" doesn't really line up with the reality I see on the server I play on. Perhaps it is different elsewhere. The underlying idea that the game does not have many PvP options is a bit flawed though. I can understand if the statement were that it didn't have many PvP options that you enjoyed. That would be completely reasonable, but as you can see, there are a decent number of options and more on the way.
At any rate, from everything I have seen on these boards or heard from other players, the expansion appears to introduce new content and new mechanics. Whether you like or dislike the game, how can that be perceived as anything less then good for the people who are still playing?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Lovely post Coffee, looks great, seems like a place where i will be a lot. Other than NORMANDY BG, rofl that BG just sounds like it's going to be the most awesome BG yet, have only seen screens of the map though.
I find it kinda funny that WoW which isn't a GFX monster is able to look so beautiful, today we will finally all ahve the computers, blizzard have had all their special fixes to mass pvp, so we all can enjoy 100+vs 100+ siege battles.
When was the last time your ram cried out when playing AV 40vs40, compared to when it was first released?
Yeah, Blizzard times their next moves pretty well, they make sure most, if not all, can enjoy the major battles.
WAR has many people with top of the line ocs, leaking loads of memory and special problems which WoW had 3 years ago.... I guess that shows where the games are standing.
With those pictures i now can't wait fore WotLK, over a month.
And the greatest part is, i know what i spend my money on, when i buy a product from blizzard, a product worth every penny and more. I can't say that for every other game/mmo i've bought.
And those multi manned maschines looks like funny business, can't wait to play WoWxBattlefield
Bottom line, WAR is what WOW should've been, atleast in their PVP regard. Why do you think suddenly they care about pvp more and hijack direct ideas from previous games and then claim " unique " credit for them?. Meh whatever, will stay in WAR, less kiddies to worry about.
heh, i can say war hijacked sieges from aoc , it had exactly same static places where you can build xx..
wintergrasp was in development way before there were any info on war sieges..
war sieges are fun in some way.. disapointing in another way ..i do have 31 lvl char which im quitng in warhammer. thats about 10lvls higher than 95% of population..
war is fun and all that.. but it have few issues beyond fixing.. reason i dont see my self playing this game anymore..
aoc have higher chance to come out of its mess than war keeping its 500k subs..
lmao yea it's been in developement for 4 years now...Check your facts, WOW pretty much takes their content from other games and WAR isn't the only game WOW has copied off of...
Comments
i am NOT doing another grind my eyes out routine again. Shit id rather go play freaking fitness wii. I will say WoTLK is looking ALOT sharper then what TBC did. but screw that. i am not wasteing my time on getting to 80, haveing to grind for all this tier 16 gear ( haha shit, i remember back dureing MC when we joked about tier 6 commeing out, well ...) just to become the almighty slash flexster lawlerskateing roflamao twister that had bounced around in dolanaar for 12 hours straight because there was nothing left to do.
... ok i'm finished with my rant, good luck
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
Doubt there will be AFKers since you whill need honor and arena points to get gear now.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
No it sucks because it sucks, not because it took them so long. They have the lore, players, resources, and other items to do something incredible and, in my eyes, they dropped the ball. Blizzard is known for setting standards and quality and in my opinion wintergrasp is neither. They have the resources to make some epic battles in PvP but after 4 years they're only have 5 battlegrounds and 1 full PvP area with siege and capturable objectives that really isn't even that good.
No it sucks because it sucks, not because it took them so long. They have the lore, players, resources, and other items to do something incredible and, in my eyes, they dropped the ball. Blizzard is known for setting standards and quality and in my opinion wintergrasp is neither. They have the resources to make some epic battles in PvP but after 4 years they're only have 5 battlegrounds and 1 full PvP area with siege and capturable objectives that really isn't even that good.
You dont change the diet of a winning race horse.. Blizzard have no reason to make huge sweeping changes to WoW thousands.. no millions seem just fine with it as is. Blizzard are adding things slowly.. testing the water to see what players will like. Trowing a bunch of half-assed stuff will please no one.
To be fair, isn't some of the responsibility on the player for this? I mean, it seems like people have complained about BGs becuase it detracts from WorldPvP by removing those PvP inclined players from the non-instanced world, but here is an example of another view that there aren't enough BG's. Additionally, there are PvP objectives in most of the Outland zones so people can participate in WorldPvP if they want (and there is some incentive such as faction rewards etc). From what I can tell, not being in Beta, Wintergrasp seems like the next logical step in the style of PvP WoW has implemented.
So, the mechanics are all in place for players to facilitate large scale PvP. Now, this is purely anecdotal. but before TBC, I can recall most nights of the week, you could find large battles in Ashenvale, XR, Hiilsbrad, etc. This not even on a PvP server. To be fair, the server was RP so perhaps people were more inclined...i couldn't say. The end result is that the players themselves need to be capable of organizing their friends or rallying the masses of Trade chat in order to utilize the mechanics that are there. Otherwise, the instant action of BG is what's available.
Given the 'casual' majority that this game seems to have, Blizzard has done what they need to retain subs and possible lure back some of those that have cancelled. I am sure WAR will keep some of their gains and I am sure it is a great game (haven't played). Ultimately, I'm glad it came out as the hype around it certainly seems to have motivated positive features for WoW.
In the end, everyone will see in the expansion whatever reinforces their current view. If you like WoW, the expansion will excite you. If you dislike WoW, you will find things you don't like.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I just can't wait until Warhammer players see the 3man seige weapons that players move and control... see the dive bombers and fighter planes... see destructable walls, bridges and buildings....
In warhammer, all you do is run up to the front door and push a button. Nothing is tactical or complicated.. it's just a mindless zergfest where the outcome is already determined because of numbers.
And the scenarios??? why in the world did Warhammer copy the two worst battlegrounds in WOW ( AB and WSG). every scenario (except deathball) is exactly like playing WSG or AB on a smaller map. None of the warhammer scenarios is even close to the new Normandy battleground.
Warhammer competes very effectively against WOW from 3 years ago, but WOW today blows away Warhammer today.
I actually said something similar a week or so ago, right after WAR first came out. I'd say this comment alone is pretty much the sum of all 'WoW vs WAR' debates. WAR fans always want to compare it against Vanilla WoW, or leave out all the PvE content, or somehow claim WAR has more PvE content.
I think the most telling fact in the whole issue though is that Mythic has been "honking their own horn" so to speak since the very beginning, yet WoW's expansion still to this day has unannounced features and content being added every day. I check the patch notes every chance I get, and I'm always being surprised by new spells or talents, new mechanics they've worked out, new zones or bosses or dungeons or whatever. It's a constant flow of "oh cool" that I never got with WAR. I imagine (and have heard from others) that actually playing the expansion itself will have a similar feeling.
No it sucks because it sucks, not because it took them so long. They have the lore, players, resources, and other items to do something incredible and, in my eyes, they dropped the ball. Blizzard is known for setting standards and quality and in my opinion wintergrasp is neither. They have the resources to make some epic battles in PvP but after 4 years they're only have 5 battlegrounds and 1 full PvP area with siege and capturable objectives that really isn't even that good.
You dont change the diet of a winning race horse.. Blizzard have no reason to make huge sweeping changes to WoW thousands.. no millions seem just fine with it as is. Blizzard are adding things slowly.. testing the water to see what players will like. Trowing a bunch of half-assed stuff will please no one.
In the past 4 years there have been a number of changes to both PvE and PvP. From the old honor system to the new honor system, 3 different changes to AV, 40-man raids being scaled down to 25 and now the 25 ones being available to 10 man and 25 man groups (which is a good thing imo). Blizzard has changed a ton of stuff in the past 4 years. Subsctiption wise they are doing great...doesn't stop people from bitching and complaining about things that could use changing. I mean no offense but if a prize winning race horse's diet was changed as much as a number of aspects of WoW over the years the poor thing would be dead.
To be fair, isn't some of the responsibility on the player for this? I mean, it seems like people have complained about BGs becuase it detracts from WorldPvP by removing those PvP inclined players from the non-instanced world, but here is an example of another view that there aren't enough BG's. Additionally, there are PvP objectives in most of the Outland zones so people can participate in WorldPvP if they want (and there is some incentive such as faction rewards etc). From what I can tell, not being in Beta, Wintergrasp seems like the next logical step in the style of PvP WoW has implemented.
So, the mechanics are all in place for players to facilitate large scale PvP. Now, this is purely anecdotal. but before TBC, I can recall most nights of the week, you could find large battles in Ashenvale, XR, Hiilsbrad, etc. This not even on a PvP server. To be fair, the server was RP so perhaps people were more inclined...i couldn't say. The end result is that the players themselves need to be capable of organizing their friends or rallying the masses of Trade chat in order to utilize the mechanics that are there. Otherwise, the instant action of BG is what's available.
Given the 'casual' majority that this game seems to have, Blizzard has done what they need to retain subs and possible lure back some of those that have cancelled. I am sure WAR will keep some of their gains and I am sure it is a great game (haven't played). Ultimately, I'm glad it came out as the hype around it certainly seems to have motivated positive features for WoW.
In the end, everyone will see in the expansion whatever reinforces their current view. If you like WoW, the expansion will excite you. If you dislike WoW, you will find things you don't like.
The thing here is giving people a number of options. This is one of the few times I will use WAR as an example. You may not like the RvR, you may hate it, you may love it...whatever, the point is they provide a number of ways to get PvP action. Those who like fair fights will go for scenarios, those who like open world will go for keeps and capturable objects. I'm not saying WAR is the end all be all of PvP action (i play the game and like it though there are a few things I would change) or that it is the greatest game ever, that would be totally unfair to com to another board and make those comments and I'm not that type of person to put one game over the other on the other game's board. The point I'm trying to illustrate is they have a number of ways for people to get in on the action. After WotLK there will be 5 BG's and 1 capturable PvP area...in four years and the amount of money they make these items could have been out, fine tuned, and had many more areas to do this in than just waiting for it now. They had a chance to make something great but with certain aspects of WG I feel they dropped the ball and that is my opinion. Some people are going to love wintergrasp. I however and unimpressed. 5 Bg's after 4 years is not a lot. They should have teams dedicated to each area of the game. Listen to the player base to make things better. The one thing I will say is WAR has at least made blizzard push up their game a little bit and started to add things people have been asking for. Most of WoW players played WC3 and I will admit it was a fantastic game. I would just like to see items from there placed here.
Not to nitpick, but don't most Outland zones have "capturable PvP areas". Terrokar has the bone wastes. Hellfire has the towers, Zangar has it's towers, Negrand has Halaa. Each of these is capturable and provides a buff for the holding faction. Some can be flipped immediately and some have timers. This coupled with 5 BG's seem like plenty of ways to get instant PvP action, but that is just my opinion of course.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
the benefits are so negligable that no one even bothers for the most part. Other than the daily for each part no one really cares much about them...maybe a few people here and there but that's about it. Wintergrasp at least offer a lot more benefits to capturing the siege point.
I went there today too! I had a blast, very good experience and pvp XP from it, awesome set up with Seige Weapons and massive PVP battles for hours on end..
No wait... I was playing WAR. Wrong forum.
heh, i can say war hijacked sieges from aoc , it had exactly same static places where you can build xx..
wintergrasp was in development way before there were any info on war sieges..
war sieges are fun in some way.. disapointing in another way ..i do have 31 lvl char which im quitng in warhammer. thats about 10lvls higher than 95% of population..
war is fun and all that.. but it have few issues beyond fixing.. reason i dont see my self playing this game anymore..
aoc have higher chance to come out of its mess than war keeping its 500k subs..
No matter what people say here: if you are only remotely interested in this industry you'll check on WotLK.
If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM.
The game which has between 55% to 60% on average of the complete MMORPG market (including the free subs ones !) can only be measued by actually playing it for a few months when the new expansion comes out.
So you will all take out your old Azeroth heroes from under the rusty dust of Blizzard servers.
If you don't want to do that. NP, but you lost the experience of the next step in MMORPG design. Lake Winter and it's PvP animation with manned tank combat and destructable Keeps is just one step further of Blizzard development in MMO games.
I always have to laugh when people bash Wow with arguments that don't apply anmore to the game.
Some even think that Wow2008 is a pure rading grind game.
Some even think that todays players will be upset by the gear reset (while everyone enjoys the new challenges and are used to these multiple resets every 6 months).
Some think that PvP or BG doesn't give Experience (I get every day 25K or more Exp (lvl 60+) with my leveling character in doing world PvP dailys and Bg's).
Some don't even know what daily heroic dungeons are.
Some don't know that Arena is a true e-sport now with equal geared torunaments.
Some don't know that professions follow the eaxct same trend of newer gear.
Could go on. But they all miss a lot, that I can tell whenever I buy a new game and look into it. From EQ2 to AoC, to LOTRO, to War. At least I play them all (or have played them) and there is not one company that can compete with Blizzard in this field.
No matter how much you cry UO or any other pathetic first generation mess.
just like you did me?YEt i wasn't specifically bashing the game but was stateing how much drama it has brought TO the mmo community. ... hm. And i actually completely disagree with you on the competition.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
just like you did me?YEt i wasn't specifically bashing the game but was stateing how much drama it has brought TO the mmo community. ... hm. And i actually completely disagree with you on the competition.
Well two minutes ago in another post you did say you didn't play other games besides Wow.
So you "completely disagree" without even playing the competition.
How thoughtful.
just like you did me?YEt i wasn't specifically bashing the game but was stateing how much drama it has brought TO the mmo community. ... hm. And i actually completely disagree with you on the competition.
Well two minutes ago in another post you did say you didn't play other games besides Wow.
So you "completely disagree" without even playing the competition.
How thoughtful.
Hm, lol no i actually did not list the other games i have played. For there is no point. you can look to your left and see the majority of the games i have played if you would like or log in to the xbox playstation or nintendo fasites if you wish. but i did not say wow is the only i played. And i do completely disagree. like i said you missed my point.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
Hmm, let's quote that again.
"If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM."
Stupid statements like this is why nobody takes you seriously memoir /teamfortress/ bodypass / any other aliases.
Heck, I like WoW but everytime I read one of your posts my desire to pay Wotlk dwindles.
Hmm, let's quote that again.
"If you don't, well a person who skips on WotLK doesn't have the right to speak out on MMORPG.COM."
Stupid statements like this is why nobody takes you seriously memoir /teamfortress/ bodypass / any other aliases.
Heck, I like WoW but everytime I read one of your posts my desire to pay Wotlk dwindles.
god that is qft.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
I disagree...WoW has done nothing to consider themselves to have done anything the next step in MMO design...what because they FINALLY have a siegable area...DAoC had that about 7 years ago.
A person who skips on WotLK has EVERY right to speak out on MMORPG.com about anything. I've played WotLK beta and I can say after giving my input and seeing how the initial design is going to finish out that I will not be buying WotLK, at least not right away. Game is much better than TBC was but it still isn't up to par with Blizzard so called quality.
As for Blizzard being an E-Sport, ha yeah right. Until they can fix their mess of class balance then they really shouldn't be calling their PvP system an E-sport. It's been shown that a certain makeup of classes will almost always beat any other class makeup. An E-Sport is something where regardless, everyone has an equal chance. I don't see that in WoW with class makeup.
WoW also has it's share of problems and is not the end-all-be-all of the MMO genre.
Drooling at the mouth
"Everything is mine and your woman too"
This is a catch22. If the benefits were any more then negligible people would be complaining that the winning side was too overpowered with the buffs or some such complaint.
So, getting back to the point that there are not many options for PvP action; currently, the options are (on a PvE server for the sake of argument): 4 BG's, Terrokar, Hellfire Penninsula, Zangar Marsh, Negrand, Silithus, Eastern Plaguelands, any number of towns and capitals to raid, and Arenas. Additionally, each Outland zone has a daily PvP quest as well as daily BG quests which provide experience and incentives beyond the typical buff for the winning faction. Other rewards include "marks" or currency to use toward items sold in that zone as, essentially "pvp rewards". I am sure you aware of all this, however, I am just laying out for the sake of illustration.
I know, in my personal (and purely anecdotal of course) experience, people always seem motivated participate in World PvP in Negrand and Terrokar. HFP is usually in play quite a bit as well. To say "no one really cares much about them" doesn't really line up with the reality I see on the server I play on. Perhaps it is different elsewhere. The underlying idea that the game does not have many PvP options is a bit flawed though. I can understand if the statement were that it didn't have many PvP options that you enjoyed. That would be completely reasonable, but as you can see, there are a decent number of options and more on the way.
At any rate, from everything I have seen on these boards or heard from other players, the expansion appears to introduce new content and new mechanics. Whether you like or dislike the game, how can that be perceived as anything less then good for the people who are still playing?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Lovely post Coffee, looks great, seems like a place where i will be a lot. Other than NORMANDY BG, rofl that BG just sounds like it's going to be the most awesome BG yet, have only seen screens of the map though.
I find it kinda funny that WoW which isn't a GFX monster is able to look so beautiful, today we will finally all ahve the computers, blizzard have had all their special fixes to mass pvp, so we all can enjoy 100+vs 100+ siege battles.
When was the last time your ram cried out when playing AV 40vs40, compared to when it was first released?
Yeah, Blizzard times their next moves pretty well, they make sure most, if not all, can enjoy the major battles.
WAR has many people with top of the line ocs, leaking loads of memory and special problems which WoW had 3 years ago.... I guess that shows where the games are standing.
With those pictures i now can't wait fore WotLK, over a month.
And the greatest part is, i know what i spend my money on, when i buy a product from blizzard, a product worth every penny and more. I can't say that for every other game/mmo i've bought.
And those multi manned maschines looks like funny business, can't wait to play WoWxBattlefield
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
heh, i can say war hijacked sieges from aoc , it had exactly same static places where you can build xx..
wintergrasp was in development way before there were any info on war sieges..
war sieges are fun in some way.. disapointing in another way ..i do have 31 lvl char which im quitng in warhammer. thats about 10lvls higher than 95% of population..
war is fun and all that.. but it have few issues beyond fixing.. reason i dont see my self playing this game anymore..
aoc have higher chance to come out of its mess than war keeping its 500k subs..
lmao yea it's been in developement for 4 years now...Check your facts, WOW pretty much takes their content from other games and WAR isn't the only game WOW has copied off of...