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Magus/Engineer & Marauder - Anyone else think they are underwhelming?
Stellus
Member UncommonPosts: 263
This isn't a bash on the game - I love the game. But I can't help but feel as if Magus/Engineer & Marauder both utterly suck on the battlefield.
After playing a Magus, and playing AGAINST a Magus, I find them utterly useless. I can't determine their purpose really. They don't do enough damage to be placed as a "defensive" caster, they have paper armor, and in scenario matches where movement is everything, they don't have time or purpose to deploy sentries. Can anyone confirm that they become utterly awesome in Tiers 3 and/or 4? Or should I give up on it entirely.
For Maruader, it doesn't seem like in a game with many different types of offensive casters and survivable classes (tanks, healers), the Marauder does well. The Witch Elf/Witch Hunter does enough damage and has stealth which allow them to last and fight with a purpose. But a Marauder gets caught in "no man's land", the area between the casters who nuke anything that gets close.
What I am trying to say is, the ends never really seem to justify the means with these classes. Should I really continue to put time into them, holding on to the sneaking suspicion that they will get better in later levels, or will they always be pointless until a later patch buffs them?
Comments
It really depends on what you want to do. Unlike all other mmo's, this game is not specifally designed for each class to holds its own or to own any other class. The Engee and Magnus are support classes, to add damage support, or utility support to the pure dps classes. They are very neat to play but if you exepct to own other players with them you will be disappointed. If you like the ranged aspect of both, I would suggest a squerg herder, they get good dps and a pet (order side white lion) which can kill characters pretty easily.
As a healer maurders and witch elfs are a bane to my existence. Their job is to quickly get into the squisy back area and hack away. Your job is not to go toe-to-toe with the front tanks nor to act as a tank. Remember that this game is about an "army" with each class adding a specific ability to the entire battlefield.
But there is something to be said for engee being able to place a bombardment turret behind a rock and indirect fire around it and add constant damage, not large damage but constant.
If you really want a game where every class is "equal" and can kill others or tank damage this game is not for you. As a RP I understand that unless someone has afk'd, I will never kill an opponent on a 1-1 fight, though I will never die either.
Sorry, I may have directed my post the wrong way. I am not looking to "own" anyone or go toe-to-toe with a tank. I just want to feel like I have a purpose on the field. I feel like there isn't a single thing I do remotely well. My spell casting is a joke, my pets do crap for damage, I die within seconds... I just feel like I am at a loss to do with the guy because he hasn't done anything particularly well. I wouldn't mind it so much but the problem I see with it is that Magus not only doesn't do one thing particularly well, but they do it far below par.
I like the explanation about the Marauder toying with backfield squishies, though.
Just b/c you FAIL at using a class doesnt make it useless.
Srsly, I normaly top the dmg charts in RvR, and I hardly have more than 2 deaths. They are utterly Awesome in T1 you just suck at playing them.
Just b/c you FAIL at using a class doesnt make it useless.
Srsly, I normaly top the dmg charts in RvR, and I hardly have more than 2 deaths. They are utterly Awesome in T1 you just suck at playing them.
That's quite possibly the least contstructive post I've seen on these boards. "I am so much better at games than you are and you suck" is your answer? Great. Suddenly I have a child telling me how I am terrible at something after I ask for help with it. Can't wait to see what the future holds for our nation's children.
Just b/c you FAIL at using a class doesnt make it useless.
Srsly, I normaly top the dmg charts in RvR, and I hardly have more than 2 deaths. They are utterly Awesome in T1 you just suck at playing them.
Wow, nice attitude man. The OP wasn't even bashing the classes, or the game. He openly stated he was just wondering if they got more useful later on. Go back to your crib, and change your diaper. *Edit* Nice sonic the hedgehog sig....seriously Sonic is totally cool.....if you are an infant....and even then not really.
@OP I can't say much about the engineers, or magus' but I've played a marauder for quite a good bit of time and they are awesome. They may not do AS much damage as a WE or WH, but they do great DPS, and are a bit sturdier than the WH or WE. Basically they can take more hits which enables them to do more damage over time.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Just b/c you FAIL at using a class doesnt make it useless.
Srsly, I normaly top the dmg charts in RvR, and I hardly have more than 2 deaths. They are utterly Awesome in T1 you just suck at playing them.
Wow, nice attitude man. The OP wasn't even bashing the classes, or the game. He openly stated he was just wondering if they got more useful later on. Go back to your crib, and change your diaper.
@OP I can't say much about the engineers, or magus' but I've played a marauder for quite a good bit of time and they are awesome. They may not do AS much damage as a WE or WH, but they do great DPS, and are a bit sturdier than the WH or WE. Basically they can take more hits which enables them to do more damage over time.
I always found getting to the fight was the struggle of the class. I find myself getting nuked all to heck before I can even get to what I want to fight. As a large, hulking man, it's kind of hard to "sneak" to it. I've been trying to pay attention to the flow of battle, wait for tanks to storm in, healers to get there first spells off, and then cross through unattended. Seems to be okay for now...
why should I bother helping them if they cant help themselves, my post is more to other ppl reading this BS thread and taking its contents as serious.
Marauders are the sex, they are super powerful, and Magus rock some hardcore face. Marauders really dont get good till lv. 15 though.
Edit: all the BAAAWWWW in this thread is delicious.
Just b/c you FAIL at using a class doesnt make it useless.
Srsly, I normaly top the dmg charts in RvR, and I hardly have more than 2 deaths. They are utterly Awesome in T1 you just suck at playing them.
Wow, nice attitude man. The OP wasn't even bashing the classes, or the game. He openly stated he was just wondering if they got more useful later on. Go back to your crib, and change your diaper.
@OP I can't say much about the engineers, or magus' but I've played a marauder for quite a good bit of time and they are awesome. They may not do AS much damage as a WE or WH, but they do great DPS, and are a bit sturdier than the WH or WE. Basically they can take more hits which enables them to do more damage over time.
I always found getting to the fight was the struggle of the class. I find myself getting nuked all to heck before I can even get to what I want to fight. As a large, hulking man, it's kind of hard to "sneak" to it. I've been trying to pay attention to the flow of battle, wait for tanks to storm in, healers to get there first spells off, and then cross through unattended. Seems to be okay for now...
Well Marauders do get 2 sprint skills which should help in getting to those healers that need to be dead....like me (My main is a WP =P)
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
I've played a couple different destro classes that always kill me and I want to add this about maurder. Backstab the runaways. Seriously, wait for people to start retreating and when their back is to you unlease your throwing ability and your stabbling ability which gives so much more damage when the target is truned around.
Again with the engineer (I have a lvl 13 alt so not too much experience) stand in teh background. Plant your turret of choice and have both you and turret attack the same traget or plant turret on front lines, set to aggressive and autoattack everything, and you sti back with a riffle on a cliff or throwing down the poison bombs. In scenarios I can usually bring the engee to top of damage charts (in 1-11 scenario) and at 13 I do respectable damage at 13, though that damage is on many people at once. Don't kill many but finish off someoen almost dead or asssist with a melee dps'er.
Magus are good because they have good AoE later in the game. As Engee's. This game has a slow start for some classes but i do believe all classes are equal in some aspect come level 40. Levels matter in this game. Yes a game is spose to be fun all the way through thats how i like it and thats how i ended up as a black orc. Some people like engee's and magus because not only do i see alot of em people are having fun with them aswell. They know there role and they maximize there capabilities. My suggestion to you is find out what class you maximize at on the battle field and be that guy. Are you the guy who runs in and wants to Pwn or are you the guy who wants to stay back in the cut and protect from a distance. Its just playstyles and the magus/engi/maruader arnt your styles.
well with the marauder (sp?) you really need to play tactically if you want to survive, because frankly they can do amazing damage and debuffs. But basically you can run into no mans land like a tank and expect to live.
as for the magus, they own.....just gotta l2p them.
as for engineer...dunno really...as a witch elf I own them but they might be underpowered...maybe a HP/dmg buff on their turrets to balance them out?
I play all ghame
I know yesterday in T3, there was an Engineer that was topping the board. I have also seen some pretty vicious Marauders. I think most of it has to do with knowing how to play your class well. Maybe you just don't LIKE playing them. If you don't enjoy playing the class, you won't put much effort into learning how to play it.
I've noticed that the Engi and the Magus' pets can wreak havoc with my WH and WE if I don't watch it. It's hard to tell sometimes in the mess, but if I'm trying to kill a squishy in the back line, the pets target me and add to the dps. I don't know how they are in the upper tiers though. All I know is that I've seen a lot of Engis top the damage chart.
Maruader is the mirror to the White Lion. it survives longer than the WE and is designed to help kill squishies. It can be tough to get across no-man's land though. It really requires patience, a healer who can keep up your tank, and the ability to make their ranks break with a few tanks and well placed nukes. I don't know how many times as a WP I've had to start the inital charge because no one else would!
Marauder class is meant to be dps, so yes its difficult to get to the squishies...but thats why you need to be tactical in this game. Its not like WoW where a warrior with 16k hp can rush the squishies and wale on them for 45 seconds before they die. Usually if you have like an offhealer acompany you it makes it easier. Like a DOK (Deciple of Khaine).
Magus: I played one to rank 2, so i cant comment on this class
Engineer: I played one untill level 12, and i have fought a level 20 before..they are a very very good class. They do loads and loads of damage...you just have to learn how to play them correctly.
*advice*...at least what has worked for me. Stay with the healers you are essentually protecting them from ambushes from WE and the sort. Set up a turret since the gun one has a 100 foot range. And just throw down heavy fire on injured enemies...if you can get a Healer or Ranged DPS while staying near your healers...then thats great. Thats basically how they are played...the Magues i assume is the same playstyle. They are used more for defensive...imagine a group of engineers guarding a keep? That is insane...it would be so difficult to take it trust me....my angy was averaging 15-40k damage per SC depending on how well the team played.
My issue with Magus/Engineer is, frankly, they don't seem to bring anything to the table that a Sorc/BW doesn't do far, far better.
Yes, the deployable classes can get good damage totals, all those little plinks from players and pets add up, but it seems to me that, at the end of the day, a pure-nuke class will simply get more done so long as there's one healer keeping an eye on them (so they don't blow themselves up). Getting a high damage total is one thing, applying that damage in the most useful way possible is another entirely. Engi/Magus are billed as the "area denial" classes and so far (up through t2 for me, I play far too many different characters) all they seem to be are weaker nukers that lack the ability to kill themselves.
I guess maybe that's the 'strength' of the Magus/Engi? They don't require a healer to operate optimally? But, of course, banking your class choice on not having a single healer seems pretty shakey to me.
Marauder I kind of understand. I mostly dismissed them nearer to launch because of that midfield "squishy dead zone" that happens between the fronts. However, a Marauder played a little more defensively (you hang back near your casters and screen for them, and dogpile onto enemy melee that rushes in) rather than charging in with the tanks seems to get by pretty well. Mainly the same deal for the WL. I don't play a Marauder, but I do play a WL, and the WL's greatest strength to me is its ability to front a lot of damage out of nowhere. WH/WE have to build their combo points and backload their spike, Sorcs/BW need long, uninterrupted cast times. Mar/WL can engage a target and immediately start ripping it to shreds. Sure their sustained damage won't be as high as the other classes but they can start spiking as soon as they start fighting. All they have to do is find a 'comfort zone' within their friendly ranks so they don't get exploded before they can deliver that damage.
I'm playing a Marauder atm and I think they're excellent. Good DPS, Good survivability and some nice abilities to interrupt casters, reduce armour, AoE attacks, Charge to chase those pesky BW's when they try and run.
Compared to the WE I tried I much prefer the Marauder. Yes you'll die if you charge in without thinking but use your head and you can do well enough. I'm nearly always in the top 3 for dmg and kills in scenarios so they can't be that bad.
Putting my money where my mouth is.
Shining example of what a lvl 24 Magus can do, Bright Wizards can suck it.
Edit: I'm Lovelock.
Wow, I really like the idea of Marauder hanging in the backfield with the casters, intercepting those who plan on ruining their fun. Rushing upfield when everyone is either distracted or running away to offensively push DPS is nice too. I will have to try that. Thanks!
Like Endlos said, You can nickel and dime people sparingly to add up to a nice total damage, but if that damage isn't being applied as well as what a Sorcerer does, then I really don't see the point to Magus. I will shelf my Magus and pick up Marauder instead. Thanks for the posts everyone.
I can't speak for maguses(or is that magi?), as I'm not a caster. As far as the marauder goes if you don't have someone healing you, then you shouldn't be running around getting nuked. Stay back near your sides casters, and get the tanks that run to them. If the caster is smart he will kite the tank away from his healer(overextend). That's when you can kill the tank. You then can join about killing the casters/healers when there are enough people around to take the focus off you.
If you have someone healing you Marauders are sick killing machines. Just don't overextend yourself(meaning getting out of your healer's range aka chasing them forever).
IMO, melee in this game are the least fun to play unless you have a healer backing you up. They always seem to be the ones that die first. If I know I'm going into a scenario/rvr solo I choose range, or a class that can heal.
As a Witch Hunter, I find the Magus to be really annoying (in a good way for them and bad for me). As far as I can tell, their pets see through stealth. Anytime I have tried to sneak to the back lines to grab a flag or nail a squishie, if there is a demon out it starts firing on me and lets everyone else know I'm there. This happens in Phoenix Gate alot.
Put your ass where your mouth is because that's about the extent of what's coming out of it. People were saying you're rude, obnoxious and don't understand what discussion or helping someone understand means. You're being a punk. No one cares that you topped the damage list. What they were asking for is purpose (which you've shown can mean DPS) and strategy (how did you outdamage everyone else). I don't care one way or the other since I don't play these classes, but the point people are trying to make to you is that you're not offering any useful information. You're just slinging e-peen and being an ass.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Put your ass where your mouth is because that's about the extent of what's coming out of it. People were saying you're rude, obnoxious and don't understand what discussion or helping someone understand means. You're being a punk. No one cares that you topped the damage list. What they were asking for is purpose (which you've shown can mean DPS) and strategy (how did you outdamage everyone else). I don't care one way or the other since I don't play these classes, but the point people are trying to make to you is that you're not offering any useful information. You're just slinging e-peen and being an ass.
I agree, I am a complete and total jackass, but if you look at my posting history I am extremely helpful to people that are not idiots.
Here are some helpful tips for helping yourself: go to the class trainer and read the skills you get, Look at spec trees, read and understand what the class is supposed to be doing. Then Log onto every other class and do the same thing, learn what you are fighting against and how those classes are supposed to be played.
SO tell me why I should give out info that is readily available to those that want to help themselves, ppl that "BAAAWWWWWWW I don't know what to do!!!" should get exactly what I gave out.
@ the witch hunter
I think its chance based, sometimes a WH can sneak up on me without the pet agroing but mostly the pet sees them.
Edit:
IMO the goal of the Magus is to make the healers job on the other team so overwhelming they cant keep up. Sure a BW or a Sorc can single target DPS more, but a healer can just negate that, now say 10-20 ppl are getting hit constantly for a shit ton, they cant keep up, they run out of AP faster and generally run away and break lines. Opening up for the melee DPS to shank them as they flee / try to keep the other 10 ppl around them alive / keep themselves alive and ignore the others.
Basic goal: be annoying.
Put your ass where your mouth is because that's about the extent of what's coming out of it. People were saying you're rude, obnoxious and don't understand what discussion or helping someone understand means. You're being a punk. No one cares that you topped the damage list. What they were asking for is purpose (which you've shown can mean DPS) and strategy (how did you outdamage everyone else). I don't care one way or the other since I don't play these classes, but the point people are trying to make to you is that you're not offering any useful information. You're just slinging e-peen and being an ass.
I agree, I am a complete and total jackass, but if you look at my posting history I am extremely helpful to people that are not idiots.
Here are some helpful tips for helping yourself: go to the class trainer and read the skills you get, Look at spec trees, read and understand what the class is supposed to be doing. Then Log onto every other class and do the same thing, learn what you are fighting against and how those classes are supposed to be played.
SO tell me why I should give out info that is readily available to those that want to help themselves, ppl that "BAAAWWWWWWW I don't know what to do!!!" should get exactly what I gave out.
@ the witch hunter
I think its chance based, sometimes a WH can sneak up on me without the pet agroing but mostly the pet sees them.
Well, just as long as you understand you were being a useless ass I suppose my point is made.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online