The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew.
And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew...
Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it.
Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish ....
The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...
The game is great but it does get more and more lonely for me. Even the guild I was in doesn't even talk. PQ is a good thing though as it does let ya get into a group and chat to kill stuff. I LOVE that aspect... I'm going to keep playing for now though because i... like many others... agree that it is a great game so I will at least play it untill something else comes out... or maybe they will merge the servers or something.
Aion, GW2, and the Lego MMO are the ones I'm most looking forward to... Sadly all of them are far away... but then there is also LotRO... I'm not sure what to do... but I do think this is a great game... the best in a long long time.
We all like different games, some people will not like WAR...and that is fine. Post your reviews, debate it and go find a different game. Warhammer does alot of this right, and some things couldve been done better. But I must say im surprised at how many critics decided to just materialize.
All of a sudden every gamer is a critic after two weeks after a game is released. IMHO none of you (or myself) have a right to post a review being it positive or negative. I dont care how much you played in 2 weeks or what your 10 year experiance playing older games was like. I am a EQ Vet and I have seen many launches myself. Not all games turn out to be the same as they were at launch. In fact NO GAMES are the same as they were at launch. You guys want to write a good review of a MMORPG? Then wait 6 months - 2 years go in and play the game see where the devs took it.. then post a review. MMORPG's are the hardest type of game to review for because so many things can change. Now I myself find WAR enjoyable...it was hard for me to adjust given my normal 5-15 hour gameplay days from the old EQ...those were the days lol.
Here is a good example to consider:
Everquest was a great game, with a great community and trading system...mainly right outside Freeport in the caves to the Oasis if im not mistaken...for all those vets that remember those days. Anyway the traveling system and community was very close....then Shadows of Luclin (I think) released and allowed players to use books to transport themselves all over the world..this limited the travel abilities of Druids and Wizards because of the change...and graphical upgrade as well. Many people were upset because they werent used to the new graphics...and alot of Wizards and Druids were pissed because they lost one of their major incomes...mainly teleporting people around for a few PP here and there.
My point:
Games change...give it a chance before you ladies and gentlemen feel the nessecity to bash it to the extent you are. And if even one of you replies to this with excuses about experiance...and wow...or any other game that your comparing it to? I dont care. We arent in that games forum are we? Get over it.
Normally I stay away from these threads but WAR is getting torn apart by people so some constructive crit needs to be added.
This game has not been released for long so please, give it time to open up.
As far as chat, don't hate on it, this makes no sense. Its practically like every other chat set-up in other mmo's. People arn't using it because they are playing the game. A trade channel could turn into a WOW spam bot so watch what you wish for.
As far as the scenario's - back off. You can pick up and play in PVP, whats wrong with that? Nothing, just people who can't handle that a game was designed to there needs. Its sad. There not ruining the game, there giving casual players a chance to play PVP w/o being severly handicapped. No one forces you to do them either. You can skip that part and pve to your hearts content. Theres loads of quests you can do.
For partying, when you enter a zone it offers partys right off the bat, then you can select an open one. You can also search for players in the map. So to your no grouping crap, shut it. Please your ruining peoples consideration to play this game with you bs.
And for guilds I have beed in a few already on diffrent chars on diffrent servers and I seen crap ones and good ones. That happens in every mmo
I think all these people have a right to an op, but seriously you need to watch how you say it. WAR is gonna die. GO MAKE ONE YOURSELF YOU REJECT! Don't come on here bashing a company for bringing PVP to a new lvl with OPTIONS to pve as well. You do not like it fine, walk away. But don't spew your crap about it going to die or any of that crap. Say why you hate it to the Devs and see if changes can be made.
Just another thread from people who haven't found the game for them. Take your garbage with ya, cause if you are this ignorant to a new game then I sure as **** don't want you.
P.S How many other games were perfect hits off the bat? NONE. THATS IT.
The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew. And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew... Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it. Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish .... The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew. And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew... Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it. Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish .... The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
Thats is just so wrong.
Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term. Read those words.
It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised. You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre.
Two problems with WAR right now. 1. Scenerios play too much of a role in leveling up. PvE content should have its exp rewards boosted and scenerios should be reduced. 2. The chat system needs a general channel. There needs to be rally masters in the capital cities so that people have access to the biggest gathering spot in the game. Plus the capitals need a general chat channel too.
Yeah, pretty much the main reason I run so many scenarios right now, as it is the easiest way to level up.
Also - they need to fix the "alliance" bug, where you can only be in an alliance with 1 other guild right now. It is supposed to be up to 10 guilds in an alliance. For those of us that play Order, we really need the ability to have a large network of people if we want any chance at holding a zone for an extended period. My guild looked around the server, found a couple guilds we'd like to join with......took the time to make sure to talk and see if it would be a good fit (with plans to expand further).....and then found out the darn thing was bugged (they were already in an alliance together and we couldn't get in).
That means we can't share calendar events, can't have a shared alliance channel with them......with many of us busy having fun in game and focusing on leveling, it kind of makes it harder to communicate.....which is not good. And also leaves me feeling like a bit of a third wheel, when we can't "officially" be a part of anything. We are a small-medium sized guild (15-20+ active players on a night on average), and all along we'd planned on joining up with a number of other guilds. Until that can happen I feel like that leaves things at a standstill. I really hope they are making that fix a priority. If they do I think that will help Order side marshal our forces tremendously and better able to plan together.
Why the hell do I need or even want to know what someone, else where in the game world with whom I have no connection or intrest, was doing in real life? Maybe your guild chat reflects the total toss you get in WoW Barrens chat? /shrug. I chat to guildies on guild chat, party members in party chat and warband members in warband chat. I have had no compulsion or need to reach out to the server and share my chuck norris jokes with them. maybe you ought to stick to chat rooms for cybering.
I wasn't really thinking of WoW when I said general chat, more along the lines of AoC, where there is a common channel to the whole server. Its used for finding groups, guilds, selling shit, and helping people. I dont see much of the type of chat you are talking about.
I'm in a server where I often have to queue to get in, but either the server cap is way too low or everyone is just too spread out to be able to get CONSISTANT groups. Why is it a rarity that I find people to do PQs with? I play at regular hours (with the queues like I said).
What I can't understand is why you play mmos if you have no interest in a large community. Maybe you got made fun of in Barrens chat and now you stick to your small groups of people. But I play massive multiplayer online rpgs to join the large numbers of people.
General chat in an mmo is an essential component, its bland otherwise.
------------------------------ "Everything is awesome. Fundamentally."
I too am writing this in vain, I know that. I don't care if you like or dislike the game, it's the pointless finger pointing at inane subjective "faults" that irk me enough to reply to the posts. Maybe a new discussion forum is in order. A place for Ex fans to hang out and complain till their hearts sing. It's been 11 years since UO launched. I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry. You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.
Normally I'd applaud action against the ex-EQ1 or ex-SWG folks that come out to shoot down new games because they can't live up to the nostolgia of their first mmo. But here you are speaking out against people with a reasonable concern - AN MMO WHERE NO ONE TALKS
Its an insane concept. I don't think the best game designers in the world could have done it if they tried. I first thought it was a problem local to my server, but many posts have voiced the same problem. Guild chat and party chat is fine, but its like living in a small town but not being able to communicate with anyone outsde of it.
I had to read more of this thread because there were alot of well written responses (yours included) but I am hoping that what rises to the surface is that there is a legitimate and significant problem with this game (more than one im sure). Its as if Mythic built a great pub that has tons of people in it, but you can only talk to one person at a time and you have to whisper.
------------------------------ "Everything is awesome. Fundamentally."
for me personally the "no talk thingy" is based on my own psychology and lazyness.
i come from a great chatty community (lineage2) where i was in a guild and chatted all day long
leaving this addiction after 4 years i basicly left my online friends behind and im to lazy atm actively making contacts and chatting in war when i dont know if i want to stay.
i dont know if thats only my personal reason not to be that chatty in groups (besides the fact that the fights and movement are kind of key pressing intense) or if its a symtom of many people that come from other games like l2, wow, conan... and just have a moment of silence in war
if your bored, visit my blog at: http://craylon.wordpress.com/ dealing with the look of mmos with the nvidia 3d vision glasses
some people say 'wait until endgame' but i fail to see why we all have to suffer through 40+ levels of repetitve and bland content in order to get to the "real game". Because that's the direction the players have taken the genre. How many times do you see people starting out a new MMO already concerned about what level cap is, how long does it take to get there, etc? I do quite often. I have seen/heard people insist that reaching end-game is the entire reason for playing a MMO. Everything along the way is just "useless filler" to be raced through, because "the real game starts at level cap". I've seen/heard people accuse the developers of requiring people to level up simply to "milk them for all the money they can", when they should really just allow them to start at level cap and get right to "the good stuff".
I've seen people complain any time devs add more content for the lower levels because "none of that matters and they shouldn't be wasting time on the n00bs who suck too much to reach end game". The developers caught on to the trend and are now delivering what many of the gamers seem to want... a MMO experience where the lower levels are almost trivial in how quickly they go by and where end-game is "where it's at".
It's no longer about the journey.. It's all about the "destination" now. An entire element that originally made MMORPGs appealing to players in the first place has been all but erased from the genre.
To paraphrase what someone else said, they want the "Multiplayer Online" parts without the "RPG" parts.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The only thing that really needs to be worked on in WAR is the social aspect of the game. Coming from someone who played swg since launch, that is what made that game so great. Plus there is alot of room to do whatever you wanted. Make WAR more sociable somehow,then you will have the perfect mmo.
Ive played alot of games since the launch of swg and this is the first one that Im totally hooked on. Warhammer is an awsome mmo and I would suggest it to anyone.
some people say 'wait until endgame' but i fail to see why we all have to suffer through 40+ levels of repetitve and bland content in order to get to the "real game". Because that's the direction the players have taken the genre. How many times do you see people starting out a new MMO already concerned about what level cap is, how long does it take to get there, etc? I do quite often. I have seen/heard people insist that reaching end-game is the entire reason for playing a MMO. Everything along the way is just "useless filler" to be raced through, because "the real game starts at level cap". I've seen/heard people accuse the developers of requiring people to level up simply to "milk them for all the money they can", when they should really just allow them to start at level cap and get right to "the good stuff".
I've seen people complain any time devs add more content for the lower levels because "none of that matters and they shouldn't be wasting time on the n00bs who suck too much to reach end game". The developers caught on to the trend and are now delivering what many of the gamers seem to want... a MMO experience where the lower levels are almost trivial in how quickly they go by and where end-game is "where it's at".
It's no longer about the journey.. It's all about the "destination" now. An entire element that originally made MMORPGs appealing to players in the first place has been all but erased from the genre.
To paraphrase what someone else said, they want the "Multiplayer Online" parts without the "RPG" parts.
You hit the nail on the head. One of the best post I have read in a while. I sure miss Everquest sometimes.
again as for the communication part, i just reflected how my world communication diminished from lineage2 to aoc to war:
lineage2:
if you wanted to sell something you shouted "want to sell +4 arcana mace"
if you wanted to group you shouted "prophet lfg"
if you wanted to xp you needed a group and shouted "group lf healer and bd"
age of conan:
if you wanted to sell something you used the trader/auction house => no more tradeshouts
if you wanted to group you still shouted "tank lf epic kesh"
if you wanted to xp you could do everything solo but there was still some good group dungeons so from time to time youd hear "lf healer for sanctum"
other then that there was some ooc bitching about the game itselve, questions about quests and game mechanics and cries from people that hot pked
war:
if you want to sell/ buy something you use the auction house => no tradeshouts
if you want to group you check open parties => no lfg shouts
if you want to xp you solo, join a szenario or pq. even tough pq need specialists like tank/healer you would just skip them and do something else rather then shouting for a healer/ tank/ rogue/ whatever
even when people are needed for rvr to defend a keep the system kind of does the shouting for you
in short the need in war to communicate via shout is very slim.
view players have the need to take initiative and most are just to lazy. without hearing player communication tough it feels lonely and without the "pm me when your healer", "thanx for joining" and "do you want to do ... same time tomorrow?" there isnt real bonding (outside of guilds)
if your bored, visit my blog at: http://craylon.wordpress.com/ dealing with the look of mmos with the nvidia 3d vision glasses
The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew. And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew... Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it. Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish .... The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
Thats is just so wrong.
Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term. Read those words.
It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised. You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre.
The problem is devs don't do this often enough.
no sir, you are 100% wrong, wrong and again WRONG. While you can, if you wish to, take the term "role playing game" and interpret that to mean - any situation that allows the user to play at a role - to do so is wrong, in this instance.
RPG has become a certain style of game as have RTS, FPS, Adventure games, Puzzle games, Platform games etc. For example, a Platform game has to have some form of platforms for your character to navigate and always require jumping/climbing, remove those core elements of play style and it is no longer a "Platformer". If you redesign a car from the bottom up, replace the wheels with wings, remove the steering wheel, and exchange the internal combustion engine for a jet engine you have a plane. Sure, it's a mode of transport, and if pushed you could drive it on the road but it is no longer a car.
What you seek from this industry is something other than an mmoRPG, as I said you and others like you want an mmoSOMETHING.
I just wonder which invester and developer team is willing to do a "Herb" and let you Homers design the all new mmo(rpg, if you really MUST insist).
Your demands are childish because you complain about what we have, want what has not even been conceived and offer no clue as to how to make it.
some people say 'wait until endgame' but i fail to see why we all have to suffer through 40+ levels of repetitve and bland content in order to get to the "real game". Because that's the direction the players have taken the genre. How many times do you see people starting out a new MMO already concerned about what level cap is, how long does it take to get there, etc? I do quite often. I have seen/heard people insist that reaching end-game is the entire reason for playing a MMO. Everything along the way is just "useless filler" to be raced through, because "the real game starts at level cap". I've seen/heard people accuse the developers of requiring people to level up simply to "milk them for all the money they can", when they should really just allow them to start at level cap and get right to "the good stuff".
I've seen people complain any time devs add more content for the lower levels because "none of that matters and they shouldn't be wasting time on the n00bs who suck too much to reach end game". The developers caught on to the trend and are now delivering what many of the gamers seem to want... a MMO experience where the lower levels are almost trivial in how quickly they go by and where end-game is "where it's at".
It's no longer about the journey.. It's all about the "destination" now. An entire element that originally made MMORPGs appealing to players in the first place has been all but erased from the genre.
To paraphrase what someone else said, they want the "Multiplayer Online" parts without the "RPG" parts.
maybe the driving force in this issue, it is a reality and we all know it, is the adoption of level based progression and not skill based progression. Eve-online has no real "end game", train some skills and off you go. You simply can not rush to the end as it is not possible to do so.
Maybe another factor is simply this, experience, and by that I dont mean XP, I mean previous knowledge. Most of us have played these games before, many have played WoW. People, by in large, hate the thought of missing out, in this case missing out on all the "fun" people at max level "could" be having. Thus we race through content, don't read all that lush quest dialogue that the writers spent years on. We ignore the unfolding story arc and avoid adventure for fear of "wasting time".
Pier pressure. We join guilds and make friends, some of which seem to play 24/7. Most mmoRPGs segregate players according to their level, so unless you keep up with friends you can find yourself isolated and ---------- missing out -----------.
Interesting read... but it's really not that hard to find people. I'm having fun, and have made 10+ new friends in the process.... just a couple of things you have to do:
1. join a guild that has vent running. You will quickly have lots of people to talk with, and after a few days will be wishing you hadn't. Find a few you like and form a click, then group with them to do stuff. Stay with your click when the guild splits up. After a few splits and merges, you will be in a guild with 20+ people that you enjoy. Too many people to actually talk with to be honest. So much socialization you might just get sick.
2. Don't run scenarios all the time. Mythic is giving too much xp (imo) for scenarios and not enough for rvr, but they will probably be modifying this sometime soon (i hope). Force yourself to do PQs and quests with your guildies, to check out the world and enjoy. You will not level as fast, but you will enjoy the game more. Limit your scenarios to a few hours a day or something.
Expectations. Some people might expect a bar to be a place where you wander in and randomly meet that special person you end up spending your life with. GRANTED such things are possible, but to approach it as an expectation is unrealistic imo... too many movies in the background. Similarly MMOs are just big game rooms. You will find a click of people and have some fun; to expect it to be as important as some real-life click is expecting too much.
So join a guild and start talking with people; find a few friends and play a game. It's not that hard and one can do it in essentially EVERY mmo that is out there. (I did in: ac2, wow, eq2, lotro, war)....
Oh and by the way, in four years of playing, I have yet to see "WTS" in general chat. Now if you want to argue that idiots post in trade channel, oh I'll agree with that. However, I only see that channel when I'm in a major city, AND amazingly enough, the /ignore feature still works in major cities!
I have no opinion on the subject either way, but, are you seriously saying in four years of playing WoW you have never seen a single 'WTS' in general? Do you play more than 5 seconds per day?
I have been playing wow for 3 years and I too have NEVER seen a WTS post in GENERAL chat.
WTS post go into the TRADE chat which I disable on all of my toons.
Yes, there are some tools who abuse the chat system, but the pros of the system outweigh the cons. I too just use /ignore on some people.
Interesting read... but it's really not that hard to find people. I'm having fun, and have made 10+ new friends in the process.... just a couple of things you have to do: 1. join a guild that has vent running. You will quickly have lots of people to talk with, and after a few days will be wishing you hadn't. Find a few you like and form a click, then group with them to do stuff. Stay with your click when the guild splits up. After a few splits and merges, you will be in a guild with 20+ people that you enjoy. Too many people to actually talk with to be honest. So much socialization you might just get sick. 2. Don't run scenarios all the time. Mythic is giving too much xp (imo) for scenarios and not enough for rvr, but they will probably be modifying this sometime soon (i hope). Force yourself to do PQs and quests with your guildies, to check out the world and enjoy. You will not level as fast, but you will enjoy the game more. Limit your scenarios to a few hours a day or something.
1) HAHAHA you cracked me up......"after a few days you will be wishing you hadn't".......thanks for the laugh, so true at times
2) While I enjoy Scenarios, I agree it is fun to do other things. Me and 3 other friends took a "tour" the other day. I'd been exploring and I saw a cave far below me with some champions leading to it. I convinced them to come join me. We made our way down, ended up killing 3 Heroes........no special loot but it was a good time exploring (and them teasing me for promising them epics) lol. There are loads of things to do via exploring in this game, it's good to take a break from the PvP and give the rest of the game a chance as well at times.
Interesting read... but it's really not that hard to find people. I'm having fun, and have made 10+ new friends in the process.... just a couple of things you have to do: 1. join a guild that has vent running. You will quickly have lots of people to talk with, and after a few days will be wishing you hadn't. Find a few you like and form a click, then group with them to do stuff. Stay with your click when the guild splits up. After a few splits and merges, you will be in a guild with 20+ people that you enjoy. Too many people to actually talk with to be honest. So much socialization you might just get sick. 2. Don't run scenarios all the time. Mythic is giving too much xp (imo) for scenarios and not enough for rvr, but they will probably be modifying this sometime soon (i hope). Force yourself to do PQs and quests with your guildies, to check out the world and enjoy. You will not level as fast, but you will enjoy the game more. Limit your scenarios to a few hours a day or something.
1) HAHAHA you cracked me up......"after a few days you will be wishing you hadn't".......thanks for the laugh, so true at times
2) While I enjoy Scenarios, I agree it is fun to do other things. Me and 3 other friends took a "tour" the other day. I'd been exploring and I saw a cave far below me with some champions leading to it. I convinced them to come join me. We made our way down, ended up killing 3 Heroes........no special loot but it was a good time exploring (and them teasing me for promising them epics) lol. There are loads of things to do via exploring in this game, it's good to take a break from the PvP and give the rest of the game a chance as well at times.
I have found 3 caves (In the starter areas) that have level 40 heroes in it. These special caves gives you a a Famous Named Hero with Background. I do a lot of exploring. I still haven't found any plungers though.
2 Caves are in The High Elf/Dark Elf Area and the last one is Wolf Cave in the Empire/Chaos Area. These are all hidden areas that take some exploring to find.
Edit
On Rowr you can see Morra's Lair in my Acheviements.
The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew. And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew... Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it. Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish .... The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
Thats is just so wrong.
Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term. Read those words.
It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised. You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre.
The problem is devs don't do this often enough.
no sir, you are 100% wrong, wrong and again WRONG. While you can, if you wish to, take the term "role playing game" and interpret that to mean - any situation that allows the user to play at a role - to do so is wrong, in this instance.
RPG has become a certain style of game as have RTS, FPS, Adventure games, Puzzle games, Platform games etc. For example, a Platform game has to have some form of platforms for your character to navigate and always require jumping/climbing, remove those core elements of play style and it is no longer a "Platformer". If you redesign a car from the bottom up, replace the wheels with wings, remove the steering wheel, and exchange the internal combustion engine for a jet engine you have a plane. Sure, it's a mode of transport, and if pushed you could drive it on the road but it is no longer a car.
What you seek from this industry is something other than an mmoRPG, as I said you and others like you want an mmoSOMETHING.
I just wonder which invester and developer team is willing to do a "Herb" and let you Homers design the all new mmo(rpg, if you really MUST insist).
Your demands are childish because you complain about what we have, want what has not even been conceived and offer no clue as to how to make it.
No sorry you are wrong and there's lots of games on that list on the left hand side of your screen that prove it beyond doubt.
When you compare mmorpg to a car you are incorrect, you should be comparing it to a vehicle, then you can redesign it as much you want and as long as still serves the basic function of moving things from a to b it is still a vehicle.
Same with mmorpg's, they bear almost no resemblance to their forefathers, hell they consisted only of text on a screen. and will probably bear just as little resemblance to their descendants.
If you think this is the end of the line for mmorpgs then you are very much mistaken, it sounds like you think the wow clone is the zenith of rpgs and future diversification and innovation is impossible.
My demands aren't childish at all, it is resonable to expect innovation, if this was not the case we would still be playing pong.
The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew. And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew... Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it. Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish .... The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
Thats is just so wrong.
Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term. Read those words.
It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised. You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre.
The problem is devs don't do this often enough.
no sir, you are 100% wrong, wrong and again WRONG. While you can, if you wish to, take the term "role playing game" and interpret that to mean - any situation that allows the user to play at a role - to do so is wrong, in this instance.
RPG has become a certain style of game as have RTS, FPS, Adventure games, Puzzle games, Platform games etc. For example, a Platform game has to have some form of platforms for your character to navigate and always require jumping/climbing, remove those core elements of play style and it is no longer a "Platformer". If you redesign a car from the bottom up, replace the wheels with wings, remove the steering wheel, and exchange the internal combustion engine for a jet engine you have a plane. Sure, it's a mode of transport, and if pushed you could drive it on the road but it is no longer a car.
What you seek from this industry is something other than an mmoRPG, as I said you and others like you want an mmoSOMETHING.
I just wonder which invester and developer team is willing to do a "Herb" and let you Homers design the all new mmo(rpg, if you really MUST insist).
Your demands are childish because you complain about what we have, want what has not even been conceived and offer no clue as to how to make it.
No sorry you are wrong and there's lots of games on that list on the left hand side of your screen that prove it beyond doubt.
When you compare mmorpg to a car you are incorrect, you should be comparing it to a vehicle, then you can redesign it as much you want and as long as still serves the basic function of moving things from a to b it is still a vehicle.
Same with mmorpg's, they bear almost no resemblance to their forefathers, hell they consisted only of text on a screen. and will probably bear just as little resemblance to their descendants.
If you think this is the end of the line for mmorpgs then you are very much mistaken, it sounds like you think the wow clone is the zenith of rpgs and future diversification and innovation is impossible.
My demands aren't childish at all, it is resonable to expect innovation, if this was not the case we would still be playing pong.
Crap.
Pong was a game and not a genre all by itself, and a MUD is still a MUD, infact all the innovation in MUDS could be said to have born the mmoRPG, in a round about way ~ a different genre. looking to my left I see a big list of games that all have certian aspects in common (except Planetside WW2 and a very few others), thus making them belong to a .... genre .... A car can be seen as a genre, as it is a TYPE OF VEHICLE.
Innovation is welcome, but the post of mine you originaly chose to quote was in reply to someone suggesting that mmoRPGs need to be dismantled and completely redone. That coupled with some peoples apparent dislike for the RPG bit of an mmoRPG, would not be possible whilst maintaing enough features to qualify it as an mmo-RPG.
Interesting read... but it's really not that hard to find people. I'm having fun, and have made 10+ new friends in the process.... just a couple of things you have to do: 1. join a guild that has vent running. You will quickly have lots of people to talk with, and after a few days will be wishing you hadn't. Find a few you like and form a click, then group with them to do stuff. Stay with your click when the guild splits up. After a few splits and merges, you will be in a guild with 20+ people that you enjoy. Too many people to actually talk with to be honest. So much socialization you might just get sick. 2. Don't run scenarios all the time. Mythic is giving too much xp (imo) for scenarios and not enough for rvr, but they will probably be modifying this sometime soon (i hope). Force yourself to do PQs and quests with your guildies, to check out the world and enjoy. You will not level as fast, but you will enjoy the game more. Limit your scenarios to a few hours a day or something.
1) HAHAHA you cracked me up......"after a few days you will be wishing you hadn't".......thanks for the laugh, so true at times
2) While I enjoy Scenarios, I agree it is fun to do other things. Me and 3 other friends took a "tour" the other day. I'd been exploring and I saw a cave far below me with some champions leading to it. I convinced them to come join me. We made our way down, ended up killing 3 Heroes........no special loot but it was a good time exploring (and them teasing me for promising them epics) lol. There are loads of things to do via exploring in this game, it's good to take a break from the PvP and give the rest of the game a chance as well at times.
I have found 3 caves (In the starter areas) that have level 40 heroes in it. These special caves gives you a a Famous Named Hero with Background. I do a lot of exploring. I still haven't found any plungers though.
2 Caves are in The High Elf/Dark Elf Area and the last one is Wolf Cave in the Empire/Chaos Area. These are all hidden areas that take some exploring to find.
Edit
On Rowr you can see Morra's Lair in my Acheviements.
There's another 40 Hero in Southern Mourkain (tier 2 dwarf bottom zone - hopefully I have the name right). I think it is very bottom S-SE. You'll see some undeadish types, go past them and do a bit of rock-hopping (they will be like platforms). That guy is first on my list when I get to 40, grabbing a tank and he's going down Oh yea, and a Tome unlock for that guy as well.
I can't play a game that is this lonely. Boy, talk about destroy the soul of a MMORPG through system design choices. WAR has no community beyond introverted utility (as opposed to 'family') guilds that just exist to zerg the content in the most basic way. Noone talks, noone listens, noone co-operates. PQs are dead where ever I go, scenerios are mindless zerg fests where victory or defeat is random and nothing to do with skill, PvE is 100% solo quest grind. It's all so soulless.
WAR imo isnt even really a MMORPG tbh... any more then TR is. It feels that everything that defines a MMORPG has been tacked as an afterthought onto the PvP core, which is fine if you are only looking for a solo zerg grind PvP game, but it makes it a terrible MMORPG. I would rather play Savage then this game, its honest about what it is, a fantasy PvP/ RTS game, and is way more fun. I guess it didnt have the hype machine of WAR though, so most won't even try it, which is a shame.
It's a solo game if you play it like a solo game, which means you should play single player games, not games with other people. Perhaps the problem is that you're not putting in enough effort to actually get to know people or join their group/guild. It's a simple concept really and I don't think it's ever failed.
Scenarios are only zerg fests if one side has half the number of the opponent's number, which is not likely to happen to often unless people just join and instantly leave. Also, the outcome is not random, it's dependent upon the skill of the players playing, even if they're not working as a team. I get what you're trying to say, but it's because you're playing AS and WITH scrubs.
PvE is not a 100% solo quest grind because when you get these things called friends, then you're not alone anymore. I would switch servers if I was you because if this is truly the huge problem that you are facing, then go for it. You said you had a great time so if you had a great time 'solo' then imagine it in a group.
Savage is a fantastic game for its time, but once again requires group leadership and following skills to be competitive and not have 'random outcomes' that you spoke about earlier with WAR. Also, the community is small so people won't flock to it, it's as simple as that. There are broken mechanics in the game that still exist even after being given to the community Plus it wasn't marketed well enough, nor was Savage 2 and that game's beta really drove people away with its inability to be played at a comfortable level by a large amount of its testers.
My advice is to move servers honestly. You'll enjoy it more.
Comments
The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew.
And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew...
Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it.
Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish ....
The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...
The game is great but it does get more and more lonely for me. Even the guild I was in doesn't even talk. PQ is a good thing though as it does let ya get into a group and chat to kill stuff. I LOVE that aspect... I'm going to keep playing for now though because i... like many others... agree that it is a great game so I will at least play it untill something else comes out... or maybe they will merge the servers or something.
Aion, GW2, and the Lego MMO are the ones I'm most looking forward to... Sadly all of them are far away... but then there is also LotRO... I'm not sure what to do... but I do think this is a great game... the best in a long long time.
We all like different games, some people will not like WAR...and that is fine. Post your reviews, debate it and go find a different game. Warhammer does alot of this right, and some things couldve been done better. But I must say im surprised at how many critics decided to just materialize.
All of a sudden every gamer is a critic after two weeks after a game is released. IMHO none of you (or myself) have a right to post a review being it positive or negative. I dont care how much you played in 2 weeks or what your 10 year experiance playing older games was like. I am a EQ Vet and I have seen many launches myself. Not all games turn out to be the same as they were at launch. In fact NO GAMES are the same as they were at launch. You guys want to write a good review of a MMORPG? Then wait 6 months - 2 years go in and play the game see where the devs took it.. then post a review. MMORPG's are the hardest type of game to review for because so many things can change. Now I myself find WAR enjoyable...it was hard for me to adjust given my normal 5-15 hour gameplay days from the old EQ...those were the days lol.
Here is a good example to consider:
Everquest was a great game, with a great community and trading system...mainly right outside Freeport in the caves to the Oasis if im not mistaken...for all those vets that remember those days. Anyway the traveling system and community was very close....then Shadows of Luclin (I think) released and allowed players to use books to transport themselves all over the world..this limited the travel abilities of Druids and Wizards because of the change...and graphical upgrade as well. Many people were upset because they werent used to the new graphics...and alot of Wizards and Druids were pissed because they lost one of their major incomes...mainly teleporting people around for a few PP here and there.
My point:
Games change...give it a chance before you ladies and gentlemen feel the nessecity to bash it to the extent you are. And if even one of you replies to this with excuses about experiance...and wow...or any other game that your comparing it to? I dont care. We arent in that games forum are we? Get over it.
Normally I stay away from these threads but WAR is getting torn apart by people so some constructive crit needs to be added.
This game has not been released for long so please, give it time to open up.
As far as chat, don't hate on it, this makes no sense. Its practically like every other chat set-up in other mmo's. People arn't using it because they are playing the game. A trade channel could turn into a WOW spam bot so watch what you wish for.
As far as the scenario's - back off. You can pick up and play in PVP, whats wrong with that? Nothing, just people who can't handle that a game was designed to there needs. Its sad. There not ruining the game, there giving casual players a chance to play PVP w/o being severly handicapped. No one forces you to do them either. You can skip that part and pve to your hearts content. Theres loads of quests you can do.
For partying, when you enter a zone it offers partys right off the bat, then you can select an open one. You can also search for players in the map. So to your no grouping crap, shut it. Please your ruining peoples consideration to play this game with you bs.
And for guilds I have beed in a few already on diffrent chars on diffrent servers and I seen crap ones and good ones. That happens in every mmo
I think all these people have a right to an op, but seriously you need to watch how you say it. WAR is gonna die. GO MAKE ONE YOURSELF YOU REJECT! Don't come on here bashing a company for bringing PVP to a new lvl with OPTIONS to pve as well. You do not like it fine, walk away. But don't spew your crap about it going to die or any of that crap. Say why you hate it to the Devs and see if changes can be made.
Just another thread from people who haven't found the game for them. Take your garbage with ya, cause if you are this ignorant to a new game then I sure as **** don't want you.
P.S How many other games were perfect hits off the bat? NONE. THATS IT.
Enjoy : )
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
Thats is just so wrong.
Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term. Read those words.
It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised. You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre.
The problem is devs don't do this often enough.
Yeah, pretty much the main reason I run so many scenarios right now, as it is the easiest way to level up.
Also - they need to fix the "alliance" bug, where you can only be in an alliance with 1 other guild right now. It is supposed to be up to 10 guilds in an alliance. For those of us that play Order, we really need the ability to have a large network of people if we want any chance at holding a zone for an extended period. My guild looked around the server, found a couple guilds we'd like to join with......took the time to make sure to talk and see if it would be a good fit (with plans to expand further).....and then found out the darn thing was bugged (they were already in an alliance together and we couldn't get in).
That means we can't share calendar events, can't have a shared alliance channel with them......with many of us busy having fun in game and focusing on leveling, it kind of makes it harder to communicate.....which is not good. And also leaves me feeling like a bit of a third wheel, when we can't "officially" be a part of anything. We are a small-medium sized guild (15-20+ active players on a night on average), and all along we'd planned on joining up with a number of other guilds. Until that can happen I feel like that leaves things at a standstill. I really hope they are making that fix a priority. If they do I think that will help Order side marshal our forces tremendously and better able to plan together.
I wasn't really thinking of WoW when I said general chat, more along the lines of AoC, where there is a common channel to the whole server. Its used for finding groups, guilds, selling shit, and helping people. I dont see much of the type of chat you are talking about.
I'm in a server where I often have to queue to get in, but either the server cap is way too low or everyone is just too spread out to be able to get CONSISTANT groups. Why is it a rarity that I find people to do PQs with? I play at regular hours (with the queues like I said).
What I can't understand is why you play mmos if you have no interest in a large community. Maybe you got made fun of in Barrens chat and now you stick to your small groups of people. But I play massive multiplayer online rpgs to join the large numbers of people.
General chat in an mmo is an essential component, its bland otherwise.
------------------------------
"Everything is awesome. Fundamentally."
Normally I'd applaud action against the ex-EQ1 or ex-SWG folks that come out to shoot down new games because they can't live up to the nostolgia of their first mmo. But here you are speaking out against people with a reasonable concern - AN MMO WHERE NO ONE TALKS
Its an insane concept. I don't think the best game designers in the world could have done it if they tried. I first thought it was a problem local to my server, but many posts have voiced the same problem. Guild chat and party chat is fine, but its like living in a small town but not being able to communicate with anyone outsde of it.
I had to read more of this thread because there were alot of well written responses (yours included) but I am hoping that what rises to the surface is that there is a legitimate and significant problem with this game (more than one im sure). Its as if Mythic built a great pub that has tons of people in it, but you can only talk to one person at a time and you have to whisper.
------------------------------
"Everything is awesome. Fundamentally."
for me personally the "no talk thingy" is based on my own psychology and lazyness.
i come from a great chatty community (lineage2) where i was in a guild and chatted all day long
leaving this addiction after 4 years i basicly left my online friends behind and im to lazy atm actively making contacts and chatting in war when i dont know if i want to stay.
i dont know if thats only my personal reason not to be that chatty in groups (besides the fact that the fights and movement are kind of key pressing intense) or if its a symtom of many people that come from other games like l2, wow, conan... and just have a moment of silence in war
if your bored, visit my blog at:
http://craylon.wordpress.com/ dealing with the look of mmos with the nvidia 3d vision glasses
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The only thing that really needs to be worked on in WAR is the social aspect of the game. Coming from someone who played swg since launch, that is what made that game so great. Plus there is alot of room to do whatever you wanted. Make WAR more sociable somehow,then you will have the perfect mmo.
Ive played alot of games since the launch of swg and this is the first one that Im totally hooked on. Warhammer is an awsome mmo and I would suggest it to anyone.
You hit the nail on the head. One of the best post I have read in a while. I sure miss Everquest sometimes.
i agree
again as for the communication part, i just reflected how my world communication diminished from lineage2 to aoc to war:
lineage2:
if you wanted to sell something you shouted "want to sell +4 arcana mace"
if you wanted to group you shouted "prophet lfg"
if you wanted to xp you needed a group and shouted "group lf healer and bd"
age of conan:
if you wanted to sell something you used the trader/auction house => no more tradeshouts
if you wanted to group you still shouted "tank lf epic kesh"
if you wanted to xp you could do everything solo but there was still some good group dungeons so from time to time youd hear "lf healer for sanctum"
other then that there was some ooc bitching about the game itselve, questions about quests and game mechanics and cries from people that hot pked
war:
if you want to sell/ buy something you use the auction house => no tradeshouts
if you want to group you check open parties => no lfg shouts
if you want to xp you solo, join a szenario or pq. even tough pq need specialists like tank/healer you would just skip them and do something else rather then shouting for a healer/ tank/ rogue/ whatever
even when people are needed for rvr to defend a keep the system kind of does the shouting for you
in short the need in war to communicate via shout is very slim.
view players have the need to take initiative and most are just to lazy. without hearing player communication tough it feels lonely and without the "pm me when your healer", "thanx for joining" and "do you want to do ... same time tomorrow?" there isnt real bonding (outside of guilds)
if your bored, visit my blog at:
http://craylon.wordpress.com/ dealing with the look of mmos with the nvidia 3d vision glasses
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
Thats is just so wrong.
Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term. Read those words.
It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised. You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre.
The problem is devs don't do this often enough.
no sir, you are 100% wrong, wrong and again WRONG. While you can, if you wish to, take the term "role playing game" and interpret that to mean - any situation that allows the user to play at a role - to do so is wrong, in this instance.
RPG has become a certain style of game as have RTS, FPS, Adventure games, Puzzle games, Platform games etc. For example, a Platform game has to have some form of platforms for your character to navigate and always require jumping/climbing, remove those core elements of play style and it is no longer a "Platformer". If you redesign a car from the bottom up, replace the wheels with wings, remove the steering wheel, and exchange the internal combustion engine for a jet engine you have a plane. Sure, it's a mode of transport, and if pushed you could drive it on the road but it is no longer a car.
What you seek from this industry is something other than an mmoRPG, as I said you and others like you want an mmoSOMETHING.
I just wonder which invester and developer team is willing to do a "Herb" and let you Homers design the all new mmo(rpg, if you really MUST insist).
Your demands are childish because you complain about what we have, want what has not even been conceived and offer no clue as to how to make it.
maybe the driving force in this issue, it is a reality and we all know it, is the adoption of level based progression and not skill based progression. Eve-online has no real "end game", train some skills and off you go. You simply can not rush to the end as it is not possible to do so.
Maybe another factor is simply this, experience, and by that I dont mean XP, I mean previous knowledge. Most of us have played these games before, many have played WoW. People, by in large, hate the thought of missing out, in this case missing out on all the "fun" people at max level "could" be having. Thus we race through content, don't read all that lush quest dialogue that the writers spent years on. We ignore the unfolding story arc and avoid adventure for fear of "wasting time".
Pier pressure. We join guilds and make friends, some of which seem to play 24/7. Most mmoRPGs segregate players according to their level, so unless you keep up with friends you can find yourself isolated and ---------- missing out -----------.
Just a thought.
Interesting read... but it's really not that hard to find people. I'm having fun, and have made 10+ new friends in the process.... just a couple of things you have to do:
1. join a guild that has vent running. You will quickly have lots of people to talk with, and after a few days will be wishing you hadn't. Find a few you like and form a click, then group with them to do stuff. Stay with your click when the guild splits up. After a few splits and merges, you will be in a guild with 20+ people that you enjoy. Too many people to actually talk with to be honest. So much socialization you might just get sick.
2. Don't run scenarios all the time. Mythic is giving too much xp (imo) for scenarios and not enough for rvr, but they will probably be modifying this sometime soon (i hope). Force yourself to do PQs and quests with your guildies, to check out the world and enjoy. You will not level as fast, but you will enjoy the game more. Limit your scenarios to a few hours a day or something.
Expectations. Some people might expect a bar to be a place where you wander in and randomly meet that special person you end up spending your life with. GRANTED such things are possible, but to approach it as an expectation is unrealistic imo... too many movies in the background. Similarly MMOs are just big game rooms. You will find a click of people and have some fun; to expect it to be as important as some real-life click is expecting too much.
So join a guild and start talking with people; find a few friends and play a game. It's not that hard and one can do it in essentially EVERY mmo that is out there. (I did in: ac2, wow, eq2, lotro, war)....
I have no opinion on the subject either way, but, are you seriously saying in four years of playing WoW you have never seen a single 'WTS' in general? Do you play more than 5 seconds per day?
I have been playing wow for 3 years and I too have NEVER seen a WTS post in GENERAL chat.
WTS post go into the TRADE chat which I disable on all of my toons.
Yes, there are some tools who abuse the chat system, but the pros of the system outweigh the cons. I too just use /ignore on some people.
1) HAHAHA you cracked me up......"after a few days you will be wishing you hadn't".......thanks for the laugh, so true at times
2) While I enjoy Scenarios, I agree it is fun to do other things. Me and 3 other friends took a "tour" the other day. I'd been exploring and I saw a cave far below me with some champions leading to it. I convinced them to come join me. We made our way down, ended up killing 3 Heroes........no special loot but it was a good time exploring (and them teasing me for promising them epics) lol. There are loads of things to do via exploring in this game, it's good to take a break from the PvP and give the rest of the game a chance as well at times.
1) HAHAHA you cracked me up......"after a few days you will be wishing you hadn't".......thanks for the laugh, so true at times
2) While I enjoy Scenarios, I agree it is fun to do other things. Me and 3 other friends took a "tour" the other day. I'd been exploring and I saw a cave far below me with some champions leading to it. I convinced them to come join me. We made our way down, ended up killing 3 Heroes........no special loot but it was a good time exploring (and them teasing me for promising them epics) lol. There are loads of things to do via exploring in this game, it's good to take a break from the PvP and give the rest of the game a chance as well at times.
I have found 3 caves (In the starter areas) that have level 40 heroes in it. These special caves gives you a a Famous Named Hero with Background. I do a lot of exploring. I still haven't found any plungers though.
2 Caves are in The High Elf/Dark Elf Area and the last one is Wolf Cave in the Empire/Chaos Area. These are all hidden areas that take some exploring to find.
Edit
On Rowr you can see Morra's Lair in my Acheviements.
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
Thats is just so wrong.
Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term. Read those words.
It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised. You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre.
The problem is devs don't do this often enough.
no sir, you are 100% wrong, wrong and again WRONG. While you can, if you wish to, take the term "role playing game" and interpret that to mean - any situation that allows the user to play at a role - to do so is wrong, in this instance.
RPG has become a certain style of game as have RTS, FPS, Adventure games, Puzzle games, Platform games etc. For example, a Platform game has to have some form of platforms for your character to navigate and always require jumping/climbing, remove those core elements of play style and it is no longer a "Platformer". If you redesign a car from the bottom up, replace the wheels with wings, remove the steering wheel, and exchange the internal combustion engine for a jet engine you have a plane. Sure, it's a mode of transport, and if pushed you could drive it on the road but it is no longer a car.
What you seek from this industry is something other than an mmoRPG, as I said you and others like you want an mmoSOMETHING.
I just wonder which invester and developer team is willing to do a "Herb" and let you Homers design the all new mmo(rpg, if you really MUST insist).
Your demands are childish because you complain about what we have, want what has not even been conceived and offer no clue as to how to make it.
No sorry you are wrong and there's lots of games on that list on the left hand side of your screen that prove it beyond doubt.
When you compare mmorpg to a car you are incorrect, you should be comparing it to a vehicle, then you can redesign it as much you want and as long as still serves the basic function of moving things from a to b it is still a vehicle.
Same with mmorpg's, they bear almost no resemblance to their forefathers, hell they consisted only of text on a screen. and will probably bear just as little resemblance to their descendants.
If you think this is the end of the line for mmorpgs then you are very much mistaken, it sounds like you think the wow clone is the zenith of rpgs and future diversification and innovation is impossible.
My demands aren't childish at all, it is resonable to expect innovation, if this was not the case we would still be playing pong.
What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.
If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.
Thats is just so wrong.
Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term. Read those words.
It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised. You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre.
The problem is devs don't do this often enough.
no sir, you are 100% wrong, wrong and again WRONG. While you can, if you wish to, take the term "role playing game" and interpret that to mean - any situation that allows the user to play at a role - to do so is wrong, in this instance.
RPG has become a certain style of game as have RTS, FPS, Adventure games, Puzzle games, Platform games etc. For example, a Platform game has to have some form of platforms for your character to navigate and always require jumping/climbing, remove those core elements of play style and it is no longer a "Platformer". If you redesign a car from the bottom up, replace the wheels with wings, remove the steering wheel, and exchange the internal combustion engine for a jet engine you have a plane. Sure, it's a mode of transport, and if pushed you could drive it on the road but it is no longer a car.
What you seek from this industry is something other than an mmoRPG, as I said you and others like you want an mmoSOMETHING.
I just wonder which invester and developer team is willing to do a "Herb" and let you Homers design the all new mmo(rpg, if you really MUST insist).
Your demands are childish because you complain about what we have, want what has not even been conceived and offer no clue as to how to make it.
No sorry you are wrong and there's lots of games on that list on the left hand side of your screen that prove it beyond doubt.
When you compare mmorpg to a car you are incorrect, you should be comparing it to a vehicle, then you can redesign it as much you want and as long as still serves the basic function of moving things from a to b it is still a vehicle.
Same with mmorpg's, they bear almost no resemblance to their forefathers, hell they consisted only of text on a screen. and will probably bear just as little resemblance to their descendants.
If you think this is the end of the line for mmorpgs then you are very much mistaken, it sounds like you think the wow clone is the zenith of rpgs and future diversification and innovation is impossible.
My demands aren't childish at all, it is resonable to expect innovation, if this was not the case we would still be playing pong.
Crap.
Pong was a game and not a genre all by itself, and a MUD is still a MUD, infact all the innovation in MUDS could be said to have born the mmoRPG, in a round about way ~ a different genre. looking to my left I see a big list of games that all have certian aspects in common (except Planetside WW2 and a very few others), thus making them belong to a .... genre .... A car can be seen as a genre, as it is a TYPE OF VEHICLE.
Innovation is welcome, but the post of mine you originaly chose to quote was in reply to someone suggesting that mmoRPGs need to be dismantled and completely redone. That coupled with some peoples apparent dislike for the RPG bit of an mmoRPG, would not be possible whilst maintaing enough features to qualify it as an mmo-RPG.
Once again, you are looking for an mmoSOMETHING.
1) HAHAHA you cracked me up......"after a few days you will be wishing you hadn't".......thanks for the laugh, so true at times
2) While I enjoy Scenarios, I agree it is fun to do other things. Me and 3 other friends took a "tour" the other day. I'd been exploring and I saw a cave far below me with some champions leading to it. I convinced them to come join me. We made our way down, ended up killing 3 Heroes........no special loot but it was a good time exploring (and them teasing me for promising them epics) lol. There are loads of things to do via exploring in this game, it's good to take a break from the PvP and give the rest of the game a chance as well at times.
I have found 3 caves (In the starter areas) that have level 40 heroes in it. These special caves gives you a a Famous Named Hero with Background. I do a lot of exploring. I still haven't found any plungers though.
2 Caves are in The High Elf/Dark Elf Area and the last one is Wolf Cave in the Empire/Chaos Area. These are all hidden areas that take some exploring to find.
Edit
On Rowr you can see Morra's Lair in my Acheviements.
There's another 40 Hero in Southern Mourkain (tier 2 dwarf bottom zone - hopefully I have the name right). I think it is very bottom S-SE. You'll see some undeadish types, go past them and do a bit of rock-hopping (they will be like platforms). That guy is first on my list when I get to 40, grabbing a tank and he's going down
Oh yea, and a Tome unlock for that guy as well.
oh who cares, point is, its a dead game, let it go
It's a solo game if you play it like a solo game, which means you should play single player games, not games with other people. Perhaps the problem is that you're not putting in enough effort to actually get to know people or join their group/guild. It's a simple concept really and I don't think it's ever failed.
Scenarios are only zerg fests if one side has half the number of the opponent's number, which is not likely to happen to often unless people just join and instantly leave. Also, the outcome is not random, it's dependent upon the skill of the players playing, even if they're not working as a team. I get what you're trying to say, but it's because you're playing AS and WITH scrubs.
PvE is not a 100% solo quest grind because when you get these things called friends, then you're not alone anymore. I would switch servers if I was you because if this is truly the huge problem that you are facing, then go for it. You said you had a great time so if you had a great time 'solo' then imagine it in a group.
Savage is a fantastic game for its time, but once again requires group leadership and following skills to be competitive and not have 'random outcomes' that you spoke about earlier with WAR. Also, the community is small so people won't flock to it, it's as simple as that. There are broken mechanics in the game that still exist even after being given to the community Plus it wasn't marketed well enough, nor was Savage 2 and that game's beta really drove people away with its inability to be played at a comfortable level by a large amount of its testers.
My advice is to move servers honestly. You'll enjoy it more.