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Warhammer questions for those that are "letdown"!
Pangaea
Member Posts: 434
Ok. Call me old fashion but let me ask some retoricle questions.
Keep in mind there are 4 aspects of this game that people can grind (Quests, PQs, Scenarios, Zone RVR) and all of them get boring if you do just one. The game is about having FUN. That is all. People do that in different ways and you have to accept that.
1- How does a large portion of the community doing Scenarios effect you?
- You don't have enough people to do PQs with?
- Get a Guild or group of ingame friends that set aside chapter runs. I did chapters 5-6-7 and almost all of 8 in one saturday afternoon. Trust me it will get boring.
- PQs will be empty regardless because you...
- level out of the gear so fast just by quest grinding.
- once you are max influence you dont need to do that chapter any more and people will move on.
- level out of the gear so fast just by quest grinding.
- If you want all PQs to be done for Tome unlocks then get a group to finish phase 2 and three.
- If you want PQs for Influence you can jump to every Phase 1 of all three PQs and grind out MAX influence in about 1 hour.. I did this on my IB.
- You don't have enough people to Quest with?
- Quests are almost always Soloable.
- You don't have enough people to Siege or Defend a keep with?
- Sieging a keep with moderate player defense will take about 25-35 people or great cooperation. (get a guild)
- to defend a keep effectivly you only need about 5-10 people. They will be there.
1- Why are you playing the game?
- To level? To RVR? To Quest? To unlock tomes and learn about the lore?
See people play the game for certain reasons.. NOONES play style should effect you. if you want to play a certain aspect of this game you can if you TRY.
How if Joe Shmoe leveling super fast effect YOUR enjoyment unless you are just so competative that you get irked when people are leveling fast and you are not?
You need to learn to enjoy the game for yourself and stop worring about other people.
Take the game for what it is.. and reevaluate what the game is about .. not ride the waves of your own expectation because of other MMOS on the market.
Comments
Here's the thing. They give the player choices. Open RvR, PvE/PQ, Scenario. Pick one to level and you are free to forge your own destiny!
Only the flaw in the design is that one of them offers a much faster rate of advancement, and ALL 3 of them require a large number of players to be fun, and offer a decent rate of advancement. Also from beta they raised the xp/rate of advancement drastically causing the PvE advancement to show drastic slowdown.
So the result is 90% of the people playing just use the one method that offers the fastest and easiest rate of advancement leaving the other 10% scattered and largely unable to make the other two forms of advancement worthwhile and eventually joining in on the Scenario grinding.
This is great for the players who love that one method of advancement, but for those of us who can't stand scenario/bg/instance grinding over and over it makes the game lose all of its appeal real fast.
To me the one thing that I can't stand in an MMO is feeling alone or in an empty world. They have these amazing RvR zones with keeps, sieging, objectives with chokepoints, etc. and most of the time they are entirely empty. This just happens to be the one aspect of the game I really enjoy and to run around for hours across all 3 pairings is pretty sad and makes the game feel empty.
If they just significantly reduced Scenario rewards, and upped PvE and open world RvR rewards it would help but then the players how are used to grinding scenarios would be upset and that is the majority of the player base.
Very well written and I agree.
I think people just kind of expect groups to fall out of the sky onto every single PQ and RvR objective.
Get out there and make friends. Find people that play the way you do. Invite people to join groups. Create a group and actually add a party note. /partynote isn't that hard.
It's going to take some LFGing to find a good group for RvR or PQs. It just is. It's just like every other MMO in that respect.
The Open Grouping is great for people that want fast action and fun. The scenarios are for the same purpose.
We the community, have to build the community. They're not going to do it for us.
A chat revamp isn't going to make people type to eachother.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Maybe a customer doesn't want to jump through the hoops of these kinds of questions to "sell" the game to themselves.
In beta a decent sized group could take a T2+ keep. Now it requires significantly more players even if no enemies show up. It is harder than you think to organize this many people.
Again I think they had a much better formula in beta and they altered it to add some longevity to the game, but what they did was mostly kill open world RvR and mold the game into something similar to the honor grind in WoW which made me want to bang my head against a wall and murder the designer at Blizzard. Luckily they don't have me making decisions though because they know how to make money. I just don't get how it is supposed to be fun. Obviously i'm the minority =P
Warhammer IS RvR.. end of story.
If I wanted to pve and do scenerios, I would do them in WOW. Which does pve better and scenarios about the same
I played Warhammer to RvR. The problem is that the rewards for RvR do not keep up with the ease of scenarios (que whereever). You can run across a zone to get to the RvR area only to find it abandoned, or so lopsided that it's not worth doing. With Scenarios, you are always in the action. This is why the majority of players are doing it.
The problem with RvR is that there is a critical mass of players needed, which most realms simply are not getting. If you have lots of players doing it, then it's easy for solo players to just join in. When not that many people are doing it, it requires YOU to be part of a guild or large group.
They seriously need to nerf scenarios so that players get out of them and focus on the part of the game the devs used their development time on.
I agree with this thread, seeing as a lot of people letdown by warhammer are let down on avoidable aspects of the game. However, i dont see this thread ever really being used by people who are feeling letdown.
A lot of people are going to dislike this game regardless of logic. Some just wont like it for no reason, some wont like it for its lack of pve focused grinding, some wont like it because they like another game more.
Would be nice to see some two way logical discussions over why people dont like the game, its just given what ive seen on all gaming forums, this never really happens.
For instance i see the argument of "i shouldnt have to..." applied to most of your logical bulletpoints.
I will vouch for the OP though, those bullet points are a fast track to full enjoyment of warhammer.
And i havent found too much difficulty organizing a good sized group for open field RvR, perhaps because i play after work and on the weekends on a well populated server. I think a lot of people having population difficulties simply chose to start on a low pop server, or play when most people are at work/school.
No? they are just going to spend 50 bucks on a game and 15 bucks a month without asking themselves "WHY AM I DOING THIS!?"
umm
I think of customers dont' want to answer those types of questions the world would be a VERY easy world to tell too.
"Selling popcicles to eskimos will be my next job"
It's simply unrealistic to expect that players are going to be at every PQ at all given times.
If you want to do a particular PQ that no one's doing, start using the Open Group system, or even god forbid the /1 chapter chat channel.
We can complain about the community and that no one is doing anything together all we want, but until we actually try to develop a community, there isn't going to be one.
The developers can't force you to talk to eachother. The tools are there, no one's using them.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
i think a lot of people will be plesantly suprised with what kind of respose youll get using the /1 when you say "who wants to help out with chapter X pq" especially if you mention your not alone.
Ive also had a lot of luck joining random parties in my area and convicing them to do a pq a few times just by saying "you guys want to do this pq real fast?"
a lot of people see the chat interface as void of banter, and then assume that the community is anti-social or completely ignoring everyone. This is not true at all, but i could see how this impression could be left.
To be honest.. I am on an RP server.. and people there just wont SHUT UP.
I need to turn chat off and Guild chat off just so I can play right.
i am exagerating.. but still..
me and my guildies talk all the time.. and we BS.. and we plan PQs we have a blast..
I feel bad for people that dont' want to join a Guild and misout on the true fun of this game.
i think a lot of people will be plesantly suprised with what kind of respose youll get using the /1 when you say "who wants to help out with chapter X pq" especially if you mention your not alone.
Ive also had a lot of luck joining random parties in my area and convicing them to do a pq a few times just by saying "you guys want to do this pq real fast?"
a lot of people see the chat interface as void of banter, and then assume that the community is anti-social or completely ignoring everyone. This is not true at all, but i could see how this impression could be left.
Not only that, but then they come to forums and complain that no one is talking. The first question that pops into my mind is: "Are you talking?"
For instance, we had a warband running around the Tier 2 Open RvR area, and we lost some people. So all I did was say in /1 in the warcamp: "Open Warband doing Keep siege, join up."
Within a few minutes we had another group with the warband to replace the people that left.
I just think that if we, the community, start acting like one, and using the channels that we have (even though the chat isn't that great) the community would grow and be much better, and more vocal.
If every single person that complains about no one using general chat would use general chat for a little while every night, whether people are responding or not. I'm sure other people would start too.
The game is 3 weeks old. Good community takes time and effort. It seems like most people that complain about the community were expecting a diverse and helpful community to be already established when they logged in. With a three week old game that's simply impossible.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
By far the the best post I seen here for a while, great job. These scenario hating jackoffs need to understand this. But thats a battle that can't be won.
Enjoy : )
The topic of "Why people don't like the game" is an opinion. There is no logical discussion except to discuss true opinions on the game (which has been done plenty of times).
And anybody who says something along the lines of "This is why you don't like WAR", or "Dumbasses don't understand why they don't like WAR", or "Scenario hating scumbag noobs can't see LOGIC and see how amazing it is", is an absolute moron in my book. Seriously. If you think your opinion is fact, you're a complete fool.
That's all.
I am not going to quote the whole thing. The only thing I would like to add is at higher level your gear will stay with you the higher level you get. In 8 hours at level 25 I can level to 26 with one other person. That armour doesn't change to much until you hit 27. Thats a LONG time to wait for new armour. The lower your level is the faster your armour gets replaced.
Other then that a great read.
The topic of "Why people don't like the game" is an opinion. There is no logical discussion except to discuss true opinions on the game (which has been done plenty of times).
And anybody who says something along the lines of "This is why you don't like WAR", or "Dumbasses don't understand why they don't like WAR", or "Scenario hating scumbag noobs can't see LOGIC and see how amazing it is", is an absolute moron in my book. Seriously. If you think your opinion is fact, you're a complete fool.
That's all.
Logically discussions are all good. Sometimes there is no logic involved. Like I HATE WoW! Why? I don't know I just HATE IT! Part of it was when Warcraft used ideas from Warhammer. Part of its from people saying "ITS THE GREATEST". Part of it was I was the newbie and everyone else was veteran. I played it for 6 months and got my warlock up to 50's and I dropped it (That was about a year ago). I was in a guild with some friends but it just wasn't fun enough for me.
Ok so maybe I do know why.
No? they are just going to spend 50 bucks on a game and 15 bucks a month without asking themselves "WHY AM I DOING THIS!?"
umm
I think of customers dont' want to answer those types of questions the world would be a VERY easy world to tell too.
"Selling popcicles to eskimos will be my next job"
Sorry, I must have misread your intentions. I thought you were trying to manipulate people who have decided not to sub after the first month with psycho-trickery.
No? they are just going to spend 50 bucks on a game and 15 bucks a month without asking themselves "WHY AM I DOING THIS!?"
umm
I think of customers dont' want to answer those types of questions the world would be a VERY easy world to tell too.
"Selling popcicles to eskimos will be my next job"
You got to remember some games are not for certain people. If someone doesn't like Superheroes. I wouldn't say play City of Heroes. Each game is made a certain way to intice certain people. All games are not made for everyone. Some people got to learn to understand that. Some people want games to change to something they would like when other people are happy the way it is. Which way is right?
PS Not saying anyone has said this but it sounded like a good spot to put it in.
No? they are just going to spend 50 bucks on a game and 15 bucks a month without asking themselves "WHY AM I DOING THIS!?"
umm
I think of customers dont' want to answer those types of questions the world would be a VERY easy world to tell too.
"Selling popcicles to eskimos will be my next job"
Sorry, I must have misread your intentions. I thought you were trying to manipulate people who have decided not to sub after the first month with psycho-trickery.
The LOGIC of my post isnt' tryign to make someoe LIKE the game.
You can't use LOGIC to argue what someone likes and doesn't like.
YOU CAN use LOGIC to rule out the Variable as to WHY they don't like it.
EXAMPLE:
Then what happens is you have the person reevaluate why they dont' like it, then they change thier story and reword WHY they REALLY dont' like it.
This is all a way to isolate thier dislike. Sure alot of people aren't goign to like having to look for groups and start warbands to get RVR going.. I wont argue that.. this game is not for you.
but to have people jump in here and say ....
"WAR IS FLAWED CAUSE SCENARIOS KILL THE GAME>> ITS DONE STICK A FORK IN IT, I WAS LET DOWN, THIS GAME IS OVER, MAJOR FAIL"
See how misleading that can sound to someone that may want to buy the game. just because someone else had a problem with a very small aspect of FIXING why they hate it??
Its Rubbish.. and people need to jsut move on if they don't like it. Dont' mislead everyone by making up things about the game. The game has been in closed beta for over a year. They had hundreds of beta testers play that whole time at level 40 and These geniouses think they have the game figured out after 2 weeks.
I think Warhammer is the perfect Casual Gamer type game. It gives you plenty of options and you can always do something regardless how much time you have.
The OP is correct that RVR doesnt just manifest...the players need to create it. So if you dont see RVR going on...but you want to get it going? Invite some people and go attack something, gurantee you will see a response within at the most 10-25 minutes depending on when and what your attacking.
*Note* if you dont like the game thats ok, there are other games out there. One game that will be worth looking into if WAR is not for you...is Aion: Tower of Eternity.
Uhm well I'm one of these that are letdowns, but i am not because i can't do quests and rvr and pq's, but because i can and i don't wanna. Is it licit to ask a MMO without any clichés such as Wow-type quests and daoc RvR?
Is it licit to be letdown from war because i wanted more content for my class SOUL CALL ? I'm a warrior priest, i'd like gameplay mechanics that allow me to encourage faith, influence the feudal lords of the area, uncover heresy, lead inquisitors, take speeches, control a parrish given by ecclesiarchy benefit, inspire love for Sigmar and debate with other theologists in religious councils, discuss faith and reformation of doctrines, revolutionize religion by being the warhammer version of Martin Luther.
I wanna meddle in politics (the count electors' affairs must be pretty interesting), I wanna feel like i am in a fanatic apocalyptically religious environment where witches are trialed and condemned and my best "quickbar skill" is an ode prayer to the Lord.
My complaint is that the setting is just this... a setting... but the game is played like any other game, and what I do in it has NOTHING to do with Warhammer.
Uhm... can i at least has cooki?
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A valid reason for not liking warhammer at heart.
But i think you got some facts messed up. THe quests are everquest like quests, not wow type quests. Wow took everquests style for questing, along with mechanics and focus.
I think that your right that if you looking for more lore based "politics" or what have you, this game might not be what your looking for.
Remember the focus here is RvR.
While your right that what you do on your own has little effect on the enviroment or the lore, the RvR does effect certain aspects of the game, nothing serious though.
But yeah i think a lot of hardcore warhammer lore fans would be let down with the overall focus of the game being RvR and not lore based pve (that would realy make it wow like wouldn it?)
If you want pve based lore (war does have it, its just overshadowed by RvR) you may want to look at one of the many pve p2p games that follow this model, hell they all do it, this game was never meant to be that type of game.
remember that in the present mmo world (thanks wow) all games in the near future are going to be released to not appeal to the hardcore lore fan minority, but the genaric mass appeal.
Creating a game that coul really only be enjoyed with someone with a vast knowledge of warhammer lore, would be a recepie for a game with 20k subscriptions ( not to say the game wouldnt rock)
So since 2004 the trend has been set: substitute lore for mass appeal. Untill something rocks the boat and dethrones the game that set this trend, i wouldnt expect anything for the hardcore lore fans in any story based series.
You're just blind if you haven't noticed yet how much you expected. Many members of this forum would pay 50$/month for an experience like they used to have on Ultima Online, it's almost a gaming religion (I would). And you wanted Mythic to do something like it? No offense to DAoC, but we know it didn't have UO's sick immersion potential.
That's what happens to blind optimistics. Be happy getting facing deception at every single corner of your life.
Ultima Online 98~04
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Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
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@Crunchyblack>;
Well you'll grant me that after darn warcraft everyone started implementing a version of the infamous exclamation mark over the head of an NPC to provide quests and used it as the best way to level up. Sure maybe everquest had already done that but before WoW I used to play Anarchy Online (with random gen.ed instance only missions off booths) and planetside with no PvE howsoever.
As for the rest i don't like PvE, really, i consider it a contradiction of the very concept of being in a massively multiplayer persistant place. And tbh i'm not much interested in lore per se either, I never played Warhammer tabletop (just the 40k)... i'm more interested in the moral issues arising from being in a fictional world like that... I believe that's the tremendous advantage of an MMO, that is, taking a world that before then had only existed on paper and tales and give it a persistant dynamic virtual life. How does it feel to be in that world and to actually DO what a "real" person would do in it? It's an aspect that's been constantly over-valued for the sake of providing familiar user-friendly mechanics for the mass.
I still wanna fight the hordes of destruction cause that's coherent with that world, i just wanna ask 'em why they hate us, can We do something about it with parliamentary debates and diplomacy? Can I try to convert heretics? And so on and so forth.
As for the dreadful appeal to mass, ofc you're right (thanks WoW for mass marketizing MMO's). But i don't agree on the 20k subscriptions. I think there are humongously vast slices of market (basically the 30+ old-time pc-players) who are still waiting for a mature game.
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