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Warhammer balance?
Darkheart00
Member Posts: 521
Currently as you are all well aware Bright wizard are OPed an issue well noted in beta but something mythic refused to acknowledge. Compared to their counterparts Sorcs, BW DoTs are pure dmg where as latter are debuffs/dmg.
I have crunched some numbers in last dozen or so scens the top 5 in dmg where BWs mostly immolation specced, avg BW does about 150k dmg in Tier 5 to put in prespective Sorcs do about 100k SW about 90k WE, WH, WP and DoKs about 60k (if dps specced). Do you think mythic should finally try to fix this or buff sorcs calamity spec?
Comments
go to school.
sorcerers are the biggest damage dealers out there, now as to why they don't hit 1 all the time in scenarios is because the order knows this !!! they kill sorcerers all the time !
so of course,. they see a sorcerer , they all target and kill. if not , they get killed.
and reason for why sorcerer do so much dps, is because of their backlash,
bws avrage at lvl 13 to 15 a 120 something dot with a 150 -250 nuke
bw's are burst damage dealers, they do a lot at the begining
but in comparison sorcerer around the same 13 to 15 lvl , they do 2 dots that dose 96 the other 87 around or given number, with a nuke that builds up as dark matter rises, doing 200- 400- to even 700
if a sorcerer has a 100% build up allready , they will do crazy amounts of damage , but suffer backlash, which can be helped out by healers.
sorcerer out damage bright wizards , if anyone should be complaining is should be the bws !!!!
Anyone that has played with any of the mages knows that they are severely squishy so please.... stop it.
If you get up to them and stab them a couple of times they are dead. Their job is to do dmg and that is what they do.
MMEEEEEHHHHH!!!
yeah,, I agree.
Mages should always do crazy amounts of damage. They can also be taken down pretty easily.
This is the way it should be.
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You said warhammer and balance in the same title! funny! Theres no balance anywhere in this game and there never will be period, its not balanced my class, realm or whatever other measure you care to use so dont bother . when u go in a scenario flip a coin heads you win tails you loose, theres the balance!
yeah,, I agree.
Mages should always do crazy amounts of damage. They can also be taken down pretty easily.
This is the way it should be.
This right here stop qqing about mages i mean sorcerers sry
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The flipping of a coin is pretty balanced.....
STOP WHINING!
yeah,, I agree.
Mages should always do crazy amounts of damage. They can also be taken down pretty easily.
This is the way it should be.
This right here stop qqing about mages i mean sorcerers sry
How so? BWs are no more harder to kill than WE/WH, Magus etc they are all Light armor wearer in fact the BW with their aoe roots have better surviv than many people give credit for.
As for BW vs Sorc damage not gonna go over it again but there is lot of posts/ discussions in WHA and other forums on it. Currently a path of immolation specced BW can put put 100-150% more dmg than path of calamity Sorc.
http://thewarjournal.com/2008/10/bright-wizard-and-sorceress-one-way-mirror/
no one is asking for perfect balance fact is BW are currently putting far more dmg than they should be even compared to their counterpart.
Let me guess, you got killed by a Bright Wizard while playing your Sorcerer. Obviously there must be something wrong if the opposing nuker class can kill you, I mean that would be crazy right?
I've seen BW's kill Sorcs and Sorcs kill BW's. It all depends on the situation and who gets the jump.
STOP WHINING!
Let me guess, you got killed by a Bright Wizard while playing your Sorcerer. Obviously there must be something wrong if the opposing nuker class can kill you, I mean that would be crazy right?
got a BW too easy to lead the scen in dmg posted some scnshts currently in Tier 3s in Ironfist server. Would rather play SW or Magus but no way can i hang with BW in dps so decided to switch.
No one is talking about One vs Ones talking about scen and rvr dmg when i can finish top 3 in every scen or tier capture you know something is wrong.
Let me guess, you got killed by a Bright Wizard while playing your Sorcerer. Obviously there must be something wrong if the opposing nuker class can kill you, I mean that would be crazy right?
got a BW too easy to lead the scen in dmg posted some scnshts currently in Tier 3s in Ironfist server. Would rather play SW or Magus but no way can i hang with BW in dps so decided to switch.
No one is talking about One vs Ones talking about scen and rvr dmg when i can finish top 3 in every scen or tier capture you know something is wrong.
BW are the nukers, they by default will do the most damage giving them a good edge on the charts. That is just how things work. If the tanks are doing their job and the healers don't have to heal as much that is an even greater opportunity for the BW to reach the top.
At low levels as a tank I was always at the top of the PQ list, reaching tier two the Swordmasters were always on top, and now in tier three the Bright Wizards are starting to shine.
I don't worry much about the scenario list, it doesn't really matter who has the most damage. It doesn't make them any better than anyone else, and most definately doesn't mean their side won the scenario.
STOP WHINING!
yeah,, I agree.
Mages should always do crazy amounts of damage. They can also be taken down pretty easily.
This is the way it should be.
This right here stop qqing about mages i mean sorcerers sry
You need to read "better".
no qq'ing
Mages "should" always do damage.
This is the way it should be.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Let me guess, you got killed by a Bright Wizard while playing your Sorcerer. Obviously there must be something wrong if the opposing nuker class can kill you, I mean that would be crazy right?
got a BW too easy to lead the scen in dmg posted some scnshts currently in Tier 3s in Ironfist server. Would rather play SW or Magus but no way can i hang with BW in dps so decided to switch.
No one is talking about One vs Ones talking about scen and rvr dmg when i can finish top 3 in every scen or tier capture you know something is wrong.
BW are the nukers, they by default will do the most damage giving them a good edge on the charts. That is just how things work. If the tanks are doing their job and the healers don't have to heal as much that is an even greater opportunity for the BW to reach the top.
At low levels as a tank I was always at the top of the PQ list, reaching tier two the Swordmasters were always on top, and now in tier three the Bright Wizards are starting to shine.
I don't worry much about the scenario list, it doesn't really matter who has the most damage. It doesn't make them any better than anyone else, and most definately doesn't mean their side won the scenario.
The point of this post is that BW's are significantly out damaging Sorcerers. the 3 (or is it 4 dots?) that BW get take 0 seconds to cast.. and allow movement (to get the f out of there), where as the sorcerer doesn't have this luxary, and must stand there for 2-3 seconds to deal out the same amount of damage. And.. as we all know.. standing still = dead for a cloth wearer. This is especially noted in taking a keep. The BW will stand at the top (inside) and just dot people on the steps and run away.. there 1-2k damage they do (which in t2.. with 3 BW's doing this) is enough to kill MOST classes. The sorcerer equalant dots.. well, there is one only ranged dot (WOP is NOT a dot), and one AOE dot (short range).. does not equal that damage of the BW. ..
And Yes, I kill BW's as a sorcerer.. because the majority have no idea what they are doing.. and are always trying to get the WTF crits..
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Bright Wizards aren't over powered. Teamwork is under powered. Both my Maurader and Witch Elf eat Bright Witches for breakfast. Hell anything with a staff in its hand is squashed in a heartbeat.
If you are getting owned by a BW you are either a squishy or a newbie. Gets some gold, get some gear, got back to PvP.
I wonder how many people that cry that BWs are OPed actually went and played a BW.
ADAPT!
Well when it comes down to dmg, it all depends who the dmg was dealt to. I can take my SW and sit back and do dmg to tanks and rack up the over all dmg but get less kills. Or I can go after the more squishy classes get more kills but probobly less dmg. Id take more kills than more overall dmg.
The flipping of a coin is pretty balanced.....
Thats like a 50/50 chance. Perfect balance, I never thought i'd see the day an mmo achieves perfect balance.
Just our of curisoty do you think BW's are the only OP class in the game?
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Just our of curisoty do you think BW's are the only OP class in the game?
Considering that every time I've encountered a BW with my Chosen they werent attacking the Sorc. I'd say they are pretty balanced to take down tanks which is mostly what nukers are meant to do on the battlefield. On my SM I've had my ass handed to me plenty of times by a Sorc on the battlefield too. Comparing balance in RvR is difficult considering that the classes were meant to work as a team, if your trying to one on one then yes It will seem unbalanced and your more than likely to be torn apart. Every time I've been fried by a nuker it's because I was focused on some other target ( defending my healers or trying to get to the enemy healers ) not because of balance issues.
Just our of curisoty do you think BW's are the only OP class in the game?
Considering that every time I've encountered a BW with my Chosen they werent attacking the Sorc. I'd say they are pretty balanced to take down tanks which is mostly what nukers are meant to do on the battlefield. On my SM I've had my ass handed to me plenty of times by a Sorc on the battlefield too. Comparing balance in RvR is difficult considering that the classes were meant to work as a team, if your trying to one on one then yes It will seem unbalanced and your more than likely to be torn apart. Every time I've been fried by a nuker it's because I was focused on some other target ( defending my healers or trying to get to the enemy healers ) not because of balance issues.
I guess the reason I have a hard time seeing BW's as OP is that Sorcs are right up their with them in the damage meters. I have taken my fair share of 1.8k doombolt crits.
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People..
it's not that the BW is killing other classes.. or not killing them.. it's that the BW's job is DAMAGE. And in that job, they out perform the destruction mirror, the sorcerer.
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I don't really agree that they our perform sorcs. Seems to be that the top spots on the damage chart seems to be sorcs and BW's trading spots. However I do agree with the idea that it's ok for one mirror to out perform the other (Even though that kind of makes them NOT mirrors). For example.
From a sheer death and destruction point of view WE's out perform WH's.
DoK's have the same healing and survivablity as WP's but DoK's have more damage.
If the BW is slightly better then the sorc then..well...yeah...I don't see a issue.
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I don't really agree that they our perform sorcs. Seems to be that the top spots on the damage chart seems to be sorcs and BW's trading spots. However I do agree with the idea that it's ok for one mirror to out perform the other (Even though that kind of makes them NOT mirrors). For example.
From a sheer death and destruction point of view WE's out perform WH's.
DoK's have the same healing and survivablity as WP's but DoK's have more damage.
If the BW is slightly better then the sorc then..well...yeah...I don't see a issue.
Nail on the freaking head there buddy.
You can't have a direct mirror.. .. I mean you CAN but having direct mirrors of classes would be boring.
As a WP I can say that DoKs do much more damage then me. And I could see the WE and WH thing, but I think they are closer to being even at higher levels, or at least thats what I'm finding on my WH.
Some classes are just balanced differently, it doesn't mean one or the other is overpowered. You also have to take into account how those players spec their character, and what armor they have on.
I don't really agree that they our perform sorcs. Seems to be that the top spots on the damage chart seems to be sorcs and BW's trading spots. However I do agree with the idea that it's ok for one mirror to out perform the other (Even though that kind of makes them NOT mirrors). For example.
From a sheer death and destruction point of view WE's out perform WH's.
DoK's have the same healing and survivablity as WP's but DoK's have more damage.
If the BW is slightly better then the sorc then..well...yeah...I don't see a issue.
Nail on the freaking head there buddy.
You can't have a direct mirror.. .. I mean you CAN but having direct mirrors of classes would be boring.
As a WP I can say that DoKs do much more damage then me. And I could see the WE and WH thing, but I think they are closer to being even at higher levels, or at least thats what I'm finding on my WH.
Some classes are just balanced differently, it doesn't mean one or the other is overpowered. You also have to take into account how those players spec their character, and what armor they have on.
I have to admit though that I am a bit dissapointed the way damage turned out in this game. I was REALLY hoping that it wouldn't turn in to another burst damage fest ala WoW firemage.
-Currently looking forward to FFXIV
-Currently playing EvE and Global Agenda
I don't really agree that they our perform sorcs. Seems to be that the top spots on the damage chart seems to be sorcs and BW's trading spots. However I do agree with the idea that it's ok for one mirror to out perform the other (Even though that kind of makes them NOT mirrors). For example.
From a sheer death and destruction point of view WE's out perform WH's.
DoK's have the same healing and survivablity as WP's but DoK's have more damage.
If the BW is slightly better then the sorc then..well...yeah...I don't see a issue.
Sorry.. but I've never seen a doK out perform a WP in T2 as far as damage goes..
But that's irrelevant. It's like saying a BW is out rooting an Sorcerer.. The WP is supposed to heal. And do warrior priests get pigeon holed in cloth as well?
The point is.. Damage can win games.. But so can healing. and if all of the classic atributes are the same (healing = healing for both sides) then the one with the higher damage will win.. Ya dig?
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I don't really agree that they our perform sorcs. Seems to be that the top spots on the damage chart seems to be sorcs and BW's trading spots. However I do agree with the idea that it's ok for one mirror to out perform the other (Even though that kind of makes them NOT mirrors). For example.
From a sheer death and destruction point of view WE's out perform WH's.
DoK's have the same healing and survivablity as WP's but DoK's have more damage.
If the BW is slightly better then the sorc then..well...yeah...I don't see a issue.
Nail on the freaking head there buddy.
You can't have a direct mirror.. .. I mean you CAN but having direct mirrors of classes would be boring.
As a WP I can say that DoKs do much more damage then me. And I could see the WE and WH thing, but I think they are closer to being even at higher levels, or at least thats what I'm finding on my WH.
Some classes are just balanced differently, it doesn't mean one or the other is overpowered. You also have to take into account how those players spec their character, and what armor they have on.
I have to admit though that I am a bit dissapointed the way damage turned out in this game. I was REALLY hoping that it wouldn't turn in to another burst damage fest ala WoW firemage.
Well, they scale it pretty well I think for the most part. There are some classes that do a tremendous amount of burst damage.. but I like to see that a majority of the classes and skills are DoT, or low instant damage.
I don't really agree that they our perform sorcs. Seems to be that the top spots on the damage chart seems to be sorcs and BW's trading spots. However I do agree with the idea that it's ok for one mirror to out perform the other (Even though that kind of makes them NOT mirrors). For example.
From a sheer death and destruction point of view WE's out perform WH's.
DoK's have the same healing and survivablity as WP's but DoK's have more damage.
If the BW is slightly better then the sorc then..well...yeah...I don't see a issue.
Sorry.. but I've never seen a doK out perform a WP in T2 as far as damage goes..
But that's irrelevant. It's like saying a BW is out rooting an Sorcerer.. The WP is supposed to heal. And do warrior priests get pigeon holed in cloth as well?
The point is.. Damage can win games.. But so can healing. and if all of the classic atributes are the same (healing = healing for both sides) then the one with the higher damage will win.. Ya dig?
Well but its not one on one damage. Maybe if every game was BW vs Sorcerer.. but thats not how the game is played. Its like saying just because the classes are different one of them is better then the other.