well also seams that many who post here dont play eve
and most of us that play eve for many years already got long skills trained like that, we will pay the character transfer or pay the alt accounts until are ready(my alts have @ 40m skillpoints)
and new player will have to pay that long skill training dont know if any of your will have the patience to wait 5 months to train all learning skills at lvl 5 (learning skills= stats buff) or level up battleship lvl 5
i guess we dont see many n00bs in capitals any more
OK, great, you sort of cheated your way to the top, be glad and leave the rest of us alone. I play, in fact pay for 3 accounts, (45 bucks a month, less than the cost of a single console game) and I could even pay for it with ISK if I chose to.
Yes, you are supposed to train learning skills for a long time, 5 months if you do it all at once, but what fool does that? One that isn't really playing their accounts I guess. In my case, I only went to level 4, and then when I took a break to play AOC earlier this year, I trained up my final learning skills to 5 (keeping my accounts actifve the whole time.)
Look, you were exploiting something that CCP has now decided to take away because they feel it is reducing their revenue streams.
The solution is simple, you don't like it, cancel all those accounts your not playing/paying for now anyways. Oh yeah, that will show them.
And we never needed to see noobs in capitals..those belong to the more veteran players.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You are a fanboy supporting a game where you pay 45 dollars per month.
You don’t think players of other mmorpgs who pay only 15 dollars per month don’t think that’s a little odd? Not so much odd as RIDICULOUS?!
FOR JINXIT:
The whole thing can be a bit confusing, because Eve is so different from other games in some respects.
You do get three character slots per account.
No, you do not have to pay extra to skill up a character in each of the three slots.
Yes, any character, can, given time and in-game currency for skill books, learn any skill, essentially explore any avenue in the game.
Yes, for some super casual players, that works out ok.
So, what’s the problem?
Time constraints change the picture completely. .
For the people smarter than a box of rocks and can do the math,
It takes so much longer to skill up characters in Eve, and the divisions of professions are so specific, that the time it takes to learn those skills essentially reverses what in the first part of this post looks normal and acceptable and playable.
First, you have to understand that by ‘skills’ in Eve, we mean almost everything about a character. ‘Skills’ affect your hit points, your hit point regen, your speed, your energy, your energy regen, your crafts, your ability to trade, your ability to use equipment and ships, your dps, all your special abilities, everything. So when we’re talking about skills, we’re not just talking about a few talents or a few abilities, we’re talking global character advancement.
Ok, now that we’re on the same page with that.
If one character were to train all the skills to max, it’d take something like 20 years. Nobody does that. There just isn’t time. That’s not what’s intended. Everyone has to choose particular career paths.
The thing about Eve is, concerning a main character, people don’t ever stop training. If a person stops training a main character to make an alt, that alt is always done quickly, and is pretty gimpy, isn’t considered a real character, but rather an appendage to the main character.
It takes years to skill up a fully decked out end game character with many maximum skills.
Another important fact is that Eve has never had a reset expansion like WoW did. Some players have been skilling up for over half a decade. The game was released around May 2003. There have never been any patches where all the current gear was rendered obsolete to level the playing field for anyone getting to the game late.
The game is purposely set up so that characters aren’t ‘finished.’ They just keep going, and going, and going and going. Fully functional characters do.
Given the fact that it takes years to reach any kind of reasonable ‘plateau’ of skills, and given that there is never a reset to even the scales between older and newer players, people understandably do NOT split their skill training evenly between those three character slots. There just isn’t enough training and time to go around.
ONE character gets almost all the skill training and the other two are gimp appendages.
The situation is still much more complicated than that, but I’m writing this more to address your question of how having three character slots relates to only being able to skill up ONE character per account at any given time.
As I said earlier, there are casual players in any mmorpg who are happy with one good character and a couple gimp appendages, but that’s not the norm.
For any game that’s been out a while, and Eve has been out more than half a decade, people like some variety and flexibility.
That’s why most Eve players, like in any mmorpg, have more than one fully functional alt, and in Eve, that means having more than one account to skill up more than one character at a pace even with everyone else.
Ok, we’ve gone into some details about how Eve works. It’s still more complicated and there are more details, but.. I’ll stop there with that. Let’s pan out for a minute for a bigger picture.
Forget everything I just said and it’s still easy to see what’s going on, without knowing exactly why in the fine details.
Fact: In other mmorpgs most people do NOT have multiple accounts, because it’s just not necessary to have more than one. The character slots, and the reasonable time it takes to make characters, allows players the flexibility and content they desire.
Fact: In Eve, alone, the norm is for most players to manage more that one account, because the skilling system in Eve is deficient, inadequate, lacking, is a scam, a cheat, purposely rigged, pushing people to those second and third accounts.
Ghost training was one way to close the gap just a tiny bit between normal service for your 15 dollars, and the deficient service provided in Eve for the same 15 dollars.
CCP, which makes Eve, was already overly greedy, but the ghost training thing was just over the top trying to squeeze even more money out of players.
I played eve, currently cancelled cause of real life financial problems, and well i didn't even know about this ghost training or how it is done, so i'm fine with them removing it, after all i don't expect my toon to get more powerful when i don't pay for the game.
Hmm, well I was thinking about re-subscribing, but I'm not so sure now. I generally only play games like this for a few months at a time then I let it lapse. EVE was great because I could set a skill to train and know it will be done when I decide to sign up again. But with this gone... Then, I suppose on the other hand $11 a month (if you get the years worth) isn't too bad... I don't know, I think the ghost training was a great feature.. Maybe just make it last only two weeks or a month after you let your account lapse. Or keep ghost training, but charge $5 or $10 dollars to resub in order to discourage letting it lapse and cover the costs of having a skill train while offline. I just don't get where this comes from. Who wants to pay $15 a month for a skill that will take 60 days to complete? I tihnk that this "feature" brings more people into the game and keeps people coming back. And it all reality what is CCP losing? A month of sub time every so often? Yeah, but they are gaining by giving people something to come back to.
Nothing worse than the ignorant commenting about a topic they know nothing about. Your comments clearly show a lack of understanding of how 2nd accounts are used in Eve. A miner almost needs a 2nd account as mining ships store about 10 minutes of mining at max, without an industrial hauler on a 2nd account you can almost forget making money as a miner. Many players have multiple accounts going on and off as they do training. It is a mjaor feature of this game now being removed. This is going to cost CCP a lot of 2nd and 3rd accounts, if not many primary accounts too.
Critically commenting on a topic you have no understanding of, especially a unique MMO like Eve almost meets the definition of a troll post.
I agree so you might want to step back. I have played this game a LOT and have neverr had to use more than one character at a time to be effective. A miner can be effective with a single character, true it helps to have a hauler as well, plus in fairness even escorts but that can be done with this really rare concept in an MMO, OTHER PLAYERS!
Seriously even with a single character I can do a fair job at mining. Sure it might go faster with another helping but to say YOU HAVE to use an ALT shows a lack of understanding how a MULTIPLAYER game works.
It is easy to find others to help, even as a new character. As for the MAJOR feature, since when is letting an account laspe a major feature of a game? Seriously this is a minor deal at best, after all how much help is that extra account if he is not paid for and thus not in play. Gosh I am sure that dead account can haul a lot of ore for you.
Your accusing me of not knowing what I AM TALKIMNG ABOUT!? Hold crap man wake up get a clue and move out of mommiy and daddys basement.
I just don't get where this comes from. Who wants to pay $15 a month for a skill that will take 60 days to complete?
Are you serious? Are you under the assumption that you cannot play while training? You do know your account will play just fine during a training right?
Gosh this whole discussion is really bringing out the whackos.
Originally posted by Mopar63 I just don't get where this comes from. Who wants to pay $15 a month for a skill that will take 60 days to complete? Are you serious? Are you under the assumption that you cannot play while training? You do know your account will play just fine during a training right? Gosh this whole discussion is really bringing out the whackos.
Nothing worse than the ignorant commenting about a topic they know nothing about. Your comments clearly show a lack of understanding of how 2nd accounts are used in Eve. A miner almost needs a 2nd account as mining ships store about 10 minutes of mining at max, without an industrial hauler on a 2nd account you can almost forget making money as a miner. Many players have multiple accounts going on and off as they do training. It is a mjaor feature of this game now being removed. This is going to cost CCP a lot of 2nd and 3rd accounts, if not many primary accounts too.
Critically commenting on a topic you have no understanding of, especially a unique MMO like Eve almost meets the definition of a troll post.
I agree so you might want to step back. I have played this game a LOT and have neverr had to use more than one character at a time to be effective. A miner can be effective with a single character, true it helps to have a hauler as well, plus in fairness even escorts but that can be done with this really rare concept in an MMO, OTHER PLAYERS!
Seriously even with a single character I can do a fair job at mining. Sure it might go faster with another helping but to say YOU HAVE to use an ALT shows a lack of understanding how a MULTIPLAYER game works.
It is easy to find others to help, even as a new character. As for the MAJOR feature, since when is letting an account laspe a major feature of a game? Seriously this is a minor deal at best, after all how much help is that extra account if he is not paid for and thus not in play. Gosh I am sure that dead account can haul a lot of ore for you.
Your accusing me of not knowing what I AM TALKIMNG ABOUT!? Hold crap man wake up get a clue and move out of mommiy and daddys basement.
Sorry you failed to convince me or anyone reading this thread, that you have any knowledge about Eve. Try moving a freighter around in high sec without a scout, There are tons of reasons to have a 2nd account in this game, you obviously don't understand the game at all.
This has long been a major feature that most players take advantage of. Removing a major feature of a game with is most certainly a darn good reason to rethink playing the game anymore.
Originally posted by jinxit I'm sorry I'm confused about what your saying here, Eve has 3 character slots per account...so are you saying here for me to train up my other characters on that one account I have to pay extra? I never seen anything that says I have to pay extra to train up my other two characters on my account just that If another account you own that is not active will not progress any further, please explain what you mean.
An Eve account has a slot for 3 characters BUT only one character can train a skill at any given time. The issue comes up when the game has so many skills you can go down several different distinct professions.
Fighter Trader Industrialist Scientist Explorer Leadership
Are the basic profession molds players have come up with over the years.
The fastest profession to train is Trader which takes about 8 months to max out depending on implants and race.
The slowest profession to train is Fighter which takes almost 2 years to max out for one of the four races.
As a result atleast having one alt account becomes important for the player who wants to not slow down the progression of their main for a secondary profession.
To keep thiings in perspective.
Most of Eve's players don't have alts though.
But that fact isn't important because ghost training really was an incentive to those who were willing to buy alt accounts. Even though they make up about 15% of the population they account for almost a third of paid for accounts.
(this is all according to CCP's guesses about populations)
In retrospect I believe now CCP wasn't doing this to milk money out of their regular players but doing this because of the increasing popularity of character sellers. CCP probably believes there are enough people making accounts just to ghost train characters to sell to other players that if they price gouge them the amount of money they make off them will be more beneficial than the money they lose from players who cancel their alts.
Sorry you failed to convince me or anyone reading this thread, that you have any knowledge about Eve. Try moving a freighter around in high sec without a scout, There are tons of reasons to have a 2nd account in this game, you obviously don't understand the game at all.
This has long been a major feature that most players take advantage of. Removing a major feature of a game with is most certainly a darn good reason to rethink playing the game anymore.
ROFL, whatever dude but you still have an invalid point. For the ALt to be effective the account must be ACTIVE which means Ghosting is not relevant. The so called feature does not in ANYWAY hinder the reasoning you have given for a second account because the account must be active to be used.
As for the scout, again I say have other players to help. I ran a SUCCESSFUL mining corporation for about 6 months before real life took me out of the game. I was part of massive mining operations and cargo hauls. No one ever used an ALT to move stuff in the corp and yet we only suffered a few loses when we got hit with a war dec. We did this really amazing thing for an MMO, we use the multi player part to bring in other players so we could all work together.
If you want to two box the game, then by all means feel free but do not push this crap out that you have to do this to be successful, that is pure BS. If you want to two box in the way you are suggesting, more power to you but that is IRRELEVENT to the discussion of Ghosting since an inactive account is USELESS as an escort or scout.
BTW in the explination of using a scout a point to be made is that the alt does not need a lot of skills for this, in fact an ALT in a noob corp and a shuttle is one of the safest and best scouts you can use in the manner you described. So again Ghosting is a none issue.
The point here is that most the arguments FOR ghost training are for supposedly 'needed alts'. Alts are definately NOT needed in EvE. Also, if they were so needed, why would they be inactive anyways? The use of alts in EvE is so you don't have to depend on other players for assistance (whether it is hauling, scouting, whatever). They are in no way necessary.
I rarely ever even log on my second and third characters on my account, and when I do, its just to test some graphics change or to look up something in game that I don't need to use my main for.
I think Character farming has hurt eve quite a bit, in that you have a lot of players that have no real idea on how to use their high-sp characters. Ghost training helps that farming disproportionally more than the average player, so it IS bad for EvE overall.
CraziFuzzy well today alts are needed more that any day u need: 1)scout alt > on same account a miner < 2)tackler alt -because of mwd/nano/changes- >on same account builder/hauler/trader <
also u need a inactive alt in a opposite faction for spy and have o be on separate account because of api key, and suddenly u come back to eve because of war to help your corp and all ppl love ya
Mopar, you have convinced every reader here you have very limited experience with the game. Every heard of a covert ops ship, that is what i scout with, not a new player account. That requires a healthy training regimen. Pretty evident you are trying to hide a brief association with the game by professing knowledge of it. Sorry, that does not work here.
Using snide remarks just reinforces your troll status in this thread.
Mopar, you have convinced every reader here you have very limited experience with the game. Every heard of a covert ops ship, that is what i scout with, not a new player account. That requires a healthy training regimen. Pretty evident you are trying to hide a brief association with the game by professing knowledge of it. Sorry, that does not work here. Using snide remarks just reinforces your troll status in this thread.
And you convince me more everyday that you must argue by putting someone down with tripe since you do not have a clue. I currently am a spcialized Covert Ops pilot moving toward Black Ops ships.
What is sad to me is that you do not understand the simple concept of the ALT scout that has been with the game FOREVER! It has long been a standard practice to make an alt, keep them in their noob corporation and then use them in a shuttle to scout out the enemy. You seem to be unaware of this practice and you call me a noob, excalty how many wars have you fought in? This practice is used all the time.
Additionally however my original point still stands that Ghosting does not impact this since even your stealth pilot must have an active account to be used and thus is not ghosting. Oh wait unless in your vast game experience you have somehow found a way to get a pilot to be able to fly using an INACTIVE account. If you have managed this then you are truly an MMO god.
As for my experience, my first time playing the game was in early 2004, I left after almost a year of play becuase of RL issues and started a new account in December of 2005. During all these times I have member a member of PIE, 1PG, Infinite Dreams, Sarum Guard, CAIN and a few others.
I have run characters for all 4 races and do have the nasty habit of starting over after each time I take a break from the game.
So please take your elitist play attitude and stick it in your missile tube.
Mopar, you have convinced every reader here you have very limited experience with the game. Every heard of a covert ops ship, that is what i scout with, not a new player account. That requires a healthy training regimen. Pretty evident you are trying to hide a brief association with the game by professing knowledge of it. Sorry, that does not work here. Using snide remarks just reinforces your troll status in this thread.
And you convince me more everyday that you must argue by putting someone down with tripe since you do not have a clue. I currently am a spcialized Covert Ops pilot moving toward Black Ops ships.
What is sad to me is that you do not understand the simple concept of the ALT scout that has been with the game FOREVER! It has long been a standard practice to make an alt, keep them in their noob corporation and then use them in a shuttle to scout out the enemy. You seem to be unaware of this practice and you call me a noob, excalty how many wars have you fought in? This practice is used all the time.
Additionally however my original point still stands that Ghosting does not impact this since even your stealth pilot must have an active account to be used and thus is not ghosting. Oh wait unless in your vast game experience you have somehow found a way to get a pilot to be able to fly using an INACTIVE account. If you have managed this then you are truly an MMO god.
As for my experience, my first time playing the game was in early 2004, I left after almost a year of play becuase of RL issues and started a new account in December of 2005. During all these times I have member a member of PIE, 1PG, Infinite Dreams, Sarum Guard, CAIN and a few others.
I have run characters for all 4 races and do have the nasty habit of starting over after each time I take a break from the game.
So please take your elitist play attitude and stick it in your missile tube.
Must've been a while since you last played Eve eh? Did you relise that you can now almost create a "specialised cov-ops" pilot in a few weeks? Create a Caldari toon of just the right spec, and you start the game at frigate 5, gunnery 5, and start with awesome learning attributes. So in a couple weeks, you gain access to T2 ships AND guns. 20au probes can be trained in a week or so depending on attributes.
Sorry man, but your "specialised cov-ops pilot", is little more than a 2 month old n00b by the standard of todays Eve.
BTW, PIE sounds a bit familiar. Was it Pie-Rats, or PIE Inc? 1PG has 38 members, and belongs to a pretty much dead alliance consisting of only one other corp called Imperial Star Guards with a whopping 12 members. CAIN consists of 1 member in a 1 member alliance, and Sarum Guard doesn't even exist as a corp OR alliance in Eve.
Odd really
But on the bright side, I hear Goonswarm might be recruiting
The point here is that most the arguments FOR ghost training are for supposedly 'needed alts'. Alts are definately NOT needed in EvE. Also, if they were so needed, why would they be inactive anyways? The use of alts in EvE is so you don't have to depend on other players for assistance (whether it is hauling, scouting, whatever). They are in no way necessary. I rarely ever even log on my second and third characters on my account, and when I do, its just to test some graphics change or to look up something in game that I don't need to use my main for. I think Character farming has hurt eve quite a bit, in that you have a lot of players that have no real idea on how to use their high-sp characters. Ghost training helps that farming disproportionally more than the average player, so it IS bad for EvE overall.
one of the points here is money. if, between all my accounts, on average, i am paying about $55 USD to ccp, is that not MORE money than the $15 USD (or less if you pay 3-, 6-, 12- months at a time) that a person with a single account would pay?
ccp WANTS you to have more than one account. no? then please explain why i keep getting emails from ccp about the power of 2? they've had at least two big marketing pushes for "the power of 2" this year.
so, with that in mind, it's a bit il-logical to think that ccp does NOT want you to have multiple accounts.
as someone else stated, if you're going to be a spy, you need multiple accounts. spies are a basic part of eve. to deny it, is to be in denial.
anyone that doesn't know how to use their high sp character is not a detriment to me. they're a detriment to themselves and the suckers they fly with. but, odds are, those people would be a detriment if they grew a character from the start to 100m sp.
some people are eternal noobs in any game, and others pick up every game within a week and are pros at it.
bottom line is twofold - 1 'ghost' training is a feature of the game from it's onset. it was removed before and quickly replaced. therefore ccp does NOT consider it a bug. 2 ccp WANTS you to have multiple accounts.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Interesting point some people make on the Eve boards.
One recurring theme you hear over and over and over again, in the now 143 page long new master thread (remember there’s also a 49 page old master thread that was locked), is that people see the ghost training as incentive for people to log back in. People sometimes have to take a break from the game, either because of rl or just because they’re bored or burned out on the game, but they set a skill to train before leaving, and they have more incentive to log back in, reactivate, knowing that it’s done. Really, that thought keeps popping up over and over and over in the thread.
CCP will lose money by removing that incentive.
I only repeat that here mainly because it’s something that people on this board who are from other games can relate to because it’s almost exactly like rested xp in other games.
Ghost training, like rested xp is limited. For ghost training, you set one skill level to train when you inactivate an Eve account, and only that one skill level runs to completion, there is no skill queue. You must reactivate and log in to continue advancing beyond that ONE skill level you got while you ‘rested.’. With rested xp in other games, just being logged out, and of course being inactive, gains you some xp, faster leveling, but only for a level or two.
It’s pretty much the same thing.
The reason Eve players are so disappointed in CCP is that they announced the change 2 days before they planned on implementing it, and CCP repeatedly lied about the reasons for it and also lied about trying to sweep it under the carpet by moving threads around.
More than that, Eve characters take so so so so so so much longer to advance than characters in other games, and there is no reset in expansions like other games to bring older and newer players on anywhere near a even playing field, ANY given account only has ONE fully functional character such that the character matters so much more per 15 dollars than in other mmos, that the ‘rested xp’ of ghost training is even more important in Eve than other mmos.
So, ya, just thought I’d bring up that parallel with rested xp in other games.
CraziFuzzy well today alts are needed more that any day
u need:
1)scout alt > on same account a miner <
2)tackler alt -because of mwd/nano/changes- >on same account builder/hauler/trader <
also u need a inactive alt in a opposite faction for spy and have o be on separate account because of api key, and suddenly u come back to eve because of war to help your corp and all ppl love ya
You don't "need" any of that. EVE is about making choices. You don't get to experience the entire game, just as in real life.
I have a scout alt, on my 3rd acct. I don't have a miner, mining sucks anyways, I do have a tackler, on my pimary account, but I never tackle, because he's even better at ewar, so I let my corp mates tackle. Two of my accounts can haul with industrials, haven't seen the need yet to fly the bigger ships, but it would be a simplet thing to add to one of them. Building, if I really wanted to, then I'd have a 4th account.
I have multiple accounts in EVE because I'm impatient, and so I was able to accomplish more in a shorter period of time. That's what you are going to have to do now too, though you might have been skirting the rules a bit to accomplish your goals.
Sure, the EVE forums are lit up with people complaining about this...the same 1000 people posting ad nasuem over the issue. No one is actually reading the threads, and in the end, I doubt CCP will much care.
But if it really bothers you that much, you are free to cancel your accounts and leave, the option we all have when the game pisses us off too much.
(oh wait, most of your accounts aren't active anyways, skip that last step)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Jennyfyr Sorry man, but your "specialised cov-ops pilot", is little more than a 2 month old n00b by the standard of todays Eve. BTW, PIE sounds a bit familiar. Was it Pie-Rats, or PIE Inc? 1PG has 38 members, and belongs to a pretty much dead alliance consisting of only one other corp called Imperial Star Guards with a whopping 12 members. CAIN consists of 1 member in a 1 member alliance, and Sarum Guard doesn't even exist as a corp OR alliance in Eve. Odd really But on the bright side, I hear Goonswarm might be recruiting
If you look at my blogs and other posts you will see I have recently returned to EVE and yes did start over. So in that sense yes my "pilot" is a noob.
PIE was PIE, INc, 1PG when I was part of it was not in an alliance, it was a bit back. The Sarum Guard was a corporation I founded in a previous character as was Infinite Dreams. Also a bit of history at one time CAIN was one of the largest Caldari RP corps not sure about now.
As for the Goonswarm, I like RP corps so I will likely gravitate to one of those.
Well Mopar just to give you an idea how badly this is going effect CCP, I took a survey this past week in my alliance. So far, just in my alliance I have 253 players with mulitple accounts who have stated they are not reupping their 2nd or 3rd accounts because of this change. This is out of over 400 who replied.
Your rhetoric aside, Eve depends on players having a lot of mulitple accounts, it is quite beneficial in a lot of aspects of the game. This is going to hurt their bottom line. It is a braindead manuver and I find your counter arguments, baseless and ineffectual.
But you see your whole arguement is also useless when you realise to USE those alts you must have an active account. This means you must be paying if you are using the accounts. If you are tow the point that you have long enough skills to train that you are cancelling the account for at LEAST 30 days then I am wonmdering why the big deal, by that level the characters are VERY useful as they are, hence no reason to go dead on the account unless you are not going to play the character for a bit, if that is the case then what is the big deal.
Thew arguements about needing an ALT aside there is NO REASON to be upset about not getting to play the game for free when you started it knowing it was a paid game. In the case of your alliance it sounds like you are throwing away characters that are pretty developed for no good reason, your waste.
In my opinion if CCP has to give the game away for free in essence to the "power" players then they are not losing much by losing those accounts since they are actually a minority on the server.
However do what you must, it is game and you free to have your opinions and move on if you like. BTW all those cancelled accounts, can I have thier stuff ?
I, like many here, wonder what they hope to gain by implementing this change.
It certainly isn't because of their stated reason:
"This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
First of all, in EVE, nobody actively puts time and energy into working on their characters. They don't, because nobody needs to do anything to train up skills except set the timer. The skill that takes two days to master will be done in two days whether a person plays two days straight or takes two days off. Anybody who says otherwise just doesn't know EVE. In fact, I'd say that the vast majority of characters in EVE don't have "time and energy" invested in them when training long skills. Whether subscribed or not, most of the training time is accrued at times when the player isn't logged on to EVE.
Nor does "ghost training" upset the balance of EVE. Combat balance is not unfairly distorted, because nobody engages in combat when ghost training, just as nobody engages in combat when they go away from an active account for a bunch of days.
The only difference between a character on an active account that sits for 60 days without a logon and a ghost trainer is the monetary value: $30. In fact, given CCP's policy on ISK for timecodes, a lot of active accounts don't pay CCP anything anyway.
Make no mistake, this isn't about the "balance of the game," nor is this about encouraging players to "actively put time and energy into working on their characters." It isn't, because there is no balance problem when characters aren't being played, and EVE characters don't require "time and energy" to advance. This is just an attempt by CCP to get players who cancelled to subscribe again...not necessarily to "play" EVE, but to "train in absentia," reinforcing the notion that EVE players already know. When it comes to character advancement, it doesn't matter whether you play EVE, it only matters that you pay EVE.
So then, why doesn't CCP just drop the facade that this is about "time and energy," or about "balance," and just make it so you pay money for SP? I'm sure that if we take the amount of SP gained per day, we can get an estimate as to how much each SP is worth in a dollar amount. Why not be able to pay a fee to get the skills that we want without having to wait around on an account we don't intend to use? That way, we don't need to worry about losing out on training time, and CCP gets more revenue. Everybody wins that way.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Yes agreed, playtime is more based on obtaining ISK than on skill training. People don't actively skill train like in more common MMOs. I don't understand how people here are confusing acquiring SPs with acquiring ISKs. I think it would make more sense to stop inactive account sell orders, manufacturing jobs and research jobs than to mess with SP training. These three things have far more effects on a character's advancement and on the EvE game as a whole than SP ghost training does imo. I'm surprised that players aren't crying more about that than about the SP ghost training.
The removal of ghost training is very annoying since it removes some of the flexibility I enjoyed with being an EvE player and having multiple accounts. As I explained in another thread, I used to have one account paid for by credit card, and one account 'paid' for by 90 day GTC. The credit card one is one I had to let lapse and ghost train twice, because of work-related issues. The 90 day GTC account was my main who I paid for for 2 years with a credit card as well before I started using the ISK-for-GTC option. Until my recent hiatus from the game, I was active on that account for a long time at a go since she was my trader/miner and made far more ISKs than my combat alt.
My combat alt was a nice addition since he could grind lvl 4 missions and haul when I mined and couldn't convince my corpmates to give me a hand. Quite a few people hate mining and hauling, so having the alt to haul is great. If I do consider coming back to EvE, I guess I'll be playing one account at a time
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Comments
OK, great, you sort of cheated your way to the top, be glad and leave the rest of us alone. I play, in fact pay for 3 accounts, (45 bucks a month, less than the cost of a single console game) and I could even pay for it with ISK if I chose to.
Yes, you are supposed to train learning skills for a long time, 5 months if you do it all at once, but what fool does that? One that isn't really playing their accounts I guess. In my case, I only went to level 4, and then when I took a break to play AOC earlier this year, I trained up my final learning skills to 5 (keeping my accounts actifve the whole time.)
Look, you were exploiting something that CCP has now decided to take away because they feel it is reducing their revenue streams.
The solution is simple, you don't like it, cancel all those accounts your not playing/paying for now anyways. Oh yeah, that will show them.
And we never needed to see noobs in capitals..those belong to the more veteran players.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
FOR KYLERAN: and anyone who just read his post.
Lmao. .
Read your own post, 100x if you have to.
You are a fanboy supporting a game where you pay 45 dollars per month.
You don’t think players of other mmorpgs who pay only 15 dollars per month don’t think that’s a little odd? Not so much odd as RIDICULOUS?!
FOR JINXIT:
The whole thing can be a bit confusing, because Eve is so different from other games in some respects.
You do get three character slots per account.
No, you do not have to pay extra to skill up a character in each of the three slots.
Yes, any character, can, given time and in-game currency for skill books, learn any skill, essentially explore any avenue in the game.
Yes, for some super casual players, that works out ok.
So, what’s the problem?
Time constraints change the picture completely. .
For the people smarter than a box of rocks and can do the math,
It takes so much longer to skill up characters in Eve, and the divisions of professions are so specific, that the time it takes to learn those skills essentially reverses what in the first part of this post looks normal and acceptable and playable.
First, you have to understand that by ‘skills’ in Eve, we mean almost everything about a character. ‘Skills’ affect your hit points, your hit point regen, your speed, your energy, your energy regen, your crafts, your ability to trade, your ability to use equipment and ships, your dps, all your special abilities, everything. So when we’re talking about skills, we’re not just talking about a few talents or a few abilities, we’re talking global character advancement.
Ok, now that we’re on the same page with that.
If one character were to train all the skills to max, it’d take something like 20 years. Nobody does that. There just isn’t time. That’s not what’s intended. Everyone has to choose particular career paths.
The thing about Eve is, concerning a main character, people don’t ever stop training. If a person stops training a main character to make an alt, that alt is always done quickly, and is pretty gimpy, isn’t considered a real character, but rather an appendage to the main character.
It takes years to skill up a fully decked out end game character with many maximum skills.
Another important fact is that Eve has never had a reset expansion like WoW did. Some players have been skilling up for over half a decade. The game was released around May 2003. There have never been any patches where all the current gear was rendered obsolete to level the playing field for anyone getting to the game late.
The game is purposely set up so that characters aren’t ‘finished.’ They just keep going, and going, and going and going. Fully functional characters do.
Given the fact that it takes years to reach any kind of reasonable ‘plateau’ of skills, and given that there is never a reset to even the scales between older and newer players, people understandably do NOT split their skill training evenly between those three character slots. There just isn’t enough training and time to go around.
ONE character gets almost all the skill training and the other two are gimp appendages.
The situation is still much more complicated than that, but I’m writing this more to address your question of how having three character slots relates to only being able to skill up ONE character per account at any given time.
As I said earlier, there are casual players in any mmorpg who are happy with one good character and a couple gimp appendages, but that’s not the norm.
For any game that’s been out a while, and Eve has been out more than half a decade, people like some variety and flexibility.
That’s why most Eve players, like in any mmorpg, have more than one fully functional alt, and in Eve, that means having more than one account to skill up more than one character at a pace even with everyone else.
Ok, we’ve gone into some details about how Eve works. It’s still more complicated and there are more details, but.. I’ll stop there with that. Let’s pan out for a minute for a bigger picture.
Forget everything I just said and it’s still easy to see what’s going on, without knowing exactly why in the fine details.
Fact: In other mmorpgs most people do NOT have multiple accounts, because it’s just not necessary to have more than one. The character slots, and the reasonable time it takes to make characters, allows players the flexibility and content they desire.
Fact: In Eve, alone, the norm is for most players to manage more that one account, because the skilling system in Eve is deficient, inadequate, lacking, is a scam, a cheat, purposely rigged, pushing people to those second and third accounts.
Ghost training was one way to close the gap just a tiny bit between normal service for your 15 dollars, and the deficient service provided in Eve for the same 15 dollars.
CCP, which makes Eve, was already overly greedy, but the ghost training thing was just over the top trying to squeeze even more money out of players.
u can say what u want now i look on one of my accounts and say
ok i am a fool but a fool that have perfect learning skills and train them for free
BestSigEver :P
I played eve, currently cancelled cause of real life financial problems, and well i didn't even know about this ghost training or how it is done, so i'm fine with them removing it, after all i don't expect my toon to get more powerful when i don't pay for the game.
Hmm, well I was thinking about re-subscribing, but I'm not so sure now. I generally only play games like this for a few months at a time then I let it lapse. EVE was great because I could set a skill to train and know it will be done when I decide to sign up again. But with this gone... Then, I suppose on the other hand $11 a month (if you get the years worth) isn't too bad... I don't know, I think the ghost training was a great feature.. Maybe just make it last only two weeks or a month after you let your account lapse. Or keep ghost training, but charge $5 or $10 dollars to resub in order to discourage letting it lapse and cover the costs of having a skill train while offline. I just don't get where this comes from. Who wants to pay $15 a month for a skill that will take 60 days to complete? I tihnk that this "feature" brings more people into the game and keeps people coming back. And it all reality what is CCP losing? A month of sub time every so often? Yeah, but they are gaining by giving people something to come back to.
Nothing worse than the ignorant commenting about a topic they know nothing about. Your comments clearly show a lack of understanding of how 2nd accounts are used in Eve. A miner almost needs a 2nd account as mining ships store about 10 minutes of mining at max, without an industrial hauler on a 2nd account you can almost forget making money as a miner. Many players have multiple accounts going on and off as they do training. It is a mjaor feature of this game now being removed. This is going to cost CCP a lot of 2nd and 3rd accounts, if not many primary accounts too.
Critically commenting on a topic you have no understanding of, especially a unique MMO like Eve almost meets the definition of a troll post.
I agree so you might want to step back. I have played this game a LOT and have neverr had to use more than one character at a time to be effective. A miner can be effective with a single character, true it helps to have a hauler as well, plus in fairness even escorts but that can be done with this really rare concept in an MMO, OTHER PLAYERS!
Seriously even with a single character I can do a fair job at mining. Sure it might go faster with another helping but to say YOU HAVE to use an ALT shows a lack of understanding how a MULTIPLAYER game works.
It is easy to find others to help, even as a new character. As for the MAJOR feature, since when is letting an account laspe a major feature of a game? Seriously this is a minor deal at best, after all how much help is that extra account if he is not paid for and thus not in play. Gosh I am sure that dead account can haul a lot of ore for you.
Your accusing me of not knowing what I AM TALKIMNG ABOUT!? Hold crap man wake up get a clue and move out of mommiy and daddys basement.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
I just don't get where this comes from. Who wants to pay $15 a month for a skill that will take 60 days to complete?
Are you serious? Are you under the assumption that you cannot play while training? You do know your account will play just fine during a training right?
Gosh this whole discussion is really bringing out the whackos.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
BestSigEver :P
Nothing worse than the ignorant commenting about a topic they know nothing about. Your comments clearly show a lack of understanding of how 2nd accounts are used in Eve. A miner almost needs a 2nd account as mining ships store about 10 minutes of mining at max, without an industrial hauler on a 2nd account you can almost forget making money as a miner. Many players have multiple accounts going on and off as they do training. It is a mjaor feature of this game now being removed. This is going to cost CCP a lot of 2nd and 3rd accounts, if not many primary accounts too.
Critically commenting on a topic you have no understanding of, especially a unique MMO like Eve almost meets the definition of a troll post.
I agree so you might want to step back. I have played this game a LOT and have neverr had to use more than one character at a time to be effective. A miner can be effective with a single character, true it helps to have a hauler as well, plus in fairness even escorts but that can be done with this really rare concept in an MMO, OTHER PLAYERS!
Seriously even with a single character I can do a fair job at mining. Sure it might go faster with another helping but to say YOU HAVE to use an ALT shows a lack of understanding how a MULTIPLAYER game works.
It is easy to find others to help, even as a new character. As for the MAJOR feature, since when is letting an account laspe a major feature of a game? Seriously this is a minor deal at best, after all how much help is that extra account if he is not paid for and thus not in play. Gosh I am sure that dead account can haul a lot of ore for you.
Your accusing me of not knowing what I AM TALKIMNG ABOUT!? Hold crap man wake up get a clue and move out of mommiy and daddys basement.
Sorry you failed to convince me or anyone reading this thread, that you have any knowledge about Eve. Try moving a freighter around in high sec without a scout, There are tons of reasons to have a 2nd account in this game, you obviously don't understand the game at all.
This has long been a major feature that most players take advantage of. Removing a major feature of a game with is most certainly a darn good reason to rethink playing the game anymore.
An Eve account has a slot for 3 characters BUT only one character can train a skill at any given time. The issue comes up when the game has so many skills you can go down several different distinct professions.
Fighter
Trader
Industrialist
Scientist
Explorer
Leadership
Are the basic profession molds players have come up with over the years.
The fastest profession to train is Trader which takes about 8 months to max out depending on implants and race.
The slowest profession to train is Fighter which takes almost 2 years to max out for one of the four races.
As a result atleast having one alt account becomes important for the player who wants to not slow down the progression of their main for a secondary profession.
To keep thiings in perspective.
Most of Eve's players don't have alts though.
But that fact isn't important because ghost training really was an incentive to those who were willing to buy alt accounts. Even though they make up about 15% of the population they account for almost a third of paid for accounts.
(this is all according to CCP's guesses about populations)
In retrospect I believe now CCP wasn't doing this to milk money out of their regular players but doing this because of the increasing popularity of character sellers. CCP probably believes there are enough people making accounts just to ghost train characters to sell to other players that if they price gouge them the amount of money they make off them will be more beneficial than the money they lose from players who cancel their alts.
This has long been a major feature that most players take advantage of. Removing a major feature of a game with is most certainly a darn good reason to rethink playing the game anymore.
ROFL, whatever dude but you still have an invalid point. For the ALt to be effective the account must be ACTIVE which means Ghosting is not relevant. The so called feature does not in ANYWAY hinder the reasoning you have given for a second account because the account must be active to be used.
As for the scout, again I say have other players to help. I ran a SUCCESSFUL mining corporation for about 6 months before real life took me out of the game. I was part of massive mining operations and cargo hauls. No one ever used an ALT to move stuff in the corp and yet we only suffered a few loses when we got hit with a war dec. We did this really amazing thing for an MMO, we use the multi player part to bring in other players so we could all work together.
If you want to two box the game, then by all means feel free but do not push this crap out that you have to do this to be successful, that is pure BS. If you want to two box in the way you are suggesting, more power to you but that is IRRELEVENT to the discussion of Ghosting since an inactive account is USELESS as an escort or scout.
BTW in the explination of using a scout a point to be made is that the alt does not need a lot of skills for this, in fact an ALT in a noob corp and a shuttle is one of the safest and best scouts you can use in the manner you described. So again Ghosting is a none issue.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
The announcement was made Monday.
On Eve’s official forums, the original GM master thread on the subject was locked at 49 pages.
Wednesday night and the new master GM thread they made and buried in a corner is up to 130 pages long.
Those are in the “Information Portal” section of the forum.
The Eve “General Discussion” section has numerous independent smaller threads that get locked.
How many gaming issues do you know that run around 180 pages long in a bit over 2 days time?
If that isn’t the community speaking, I don’t know what is.
The point here is that most the arguments FOR ghost training are for supposedly 'needed alts'. Alts are definately NOT needed in EvE. Also, if they were so needed, why would they be inactive anyways? The use of alts in EvE is so you don't have to depend on other players for assistance (whether it is hauling, scouting, whatever). They are in no way necessary.
I rarely ever even log on my second and third characters on my account, and when I do, its just to test some graphics change or to look up something in game that I don't need to use my main for.
I think Character farming has hurt eve quite a bit, in that you have a lot of players that have no real idea on how to use their high-sp characters. Ghost training helps that farming disproportionally more than the average player, so it IS bad for EvE overall.
CraziFuzzy
CraziFuzzy well today alts are needed more that any day
u need:
1)scout alt > on same account a miner <
2)tackler alt -because of mwd/nano/changes- >on same account builder/hauler/trader <
also u need a inactive alt in a opposite faction for spy and have o be on separate account because of api key, and suddenly u come back to eve because of war to help your corp and all ppl love ya
BestSigEver :P
Mopar, you have convinced every reader here you have very limited experience with the game. Every heard of a covert ops ship, that is what i scout with, not a new player account. That requires a healthy training regimen. Pretty evident you are trying to hide a brief association with the game by professing knowledge of it. Sorry, that does not work here.
Using snide remarks just reinforces your troll status in this thread.
And you convince me more everyday that you must argue by putting someone down with tripe since you do not have a clue. I currently am a spcialized Covert Ops pilot moving toward Black Ops ships.
What is sad to me is that you do not understand the simple concept of the ALT scout that has been with the game FOREVER! It has long been a standard practice to make an alt, keep them in their noob corporation and then use them in a shuttle to scout out the enemy. You seem to be unaware of this practice and you call me a noob, excalty how many wars have you fought in? This practice is used all the time.
Additionally however my original point still stands that Ghosting does not impact this since even your stealth pilot must have an active account to be used and thus is not ghosting. Oh wait unless in your vast game experience you have somehow found a way to get a pilot to be able to fly using an INACTIVE account.
If you have managed this then you are truly an MMO god.
As for my experience, my first time playing the game was in early 2004, I left after almost a year of play becuase of RL issues and started a new account in December of 2005. During all these times I have member a member of PIE, 1PG, Infinite Dreams, Sarum Guard, CAIN and a few others.
I have run characters for all 4 races and do have the nasty habit of starting over after each time I take a break from the game.
So please take your elitist play attitude and stick it in your missile tube.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
And you convince me more everyday that you must argue by putting someone down with tripe since you do not have a clue. I currently am a spcialized Covert Ops pilot moving toward Black Ops ships.
What is sad to me is that you do not understand the simple concept of the ALT scout that has been with the game FOREVER! It has long been a standard practice to make an alt, keep them in their noob corporation and then use them in a shuttle to scout out the enemy. You seem to be unaware of this practice and you call me a noob, excalty how many wars have you fought in? This practice is used all the time.
Additionally however my original point still stands that Ghosting does not impact this since even your stealth pilot must have an active account to be used and thus is not ghosting. Oh wait unless in your vast game experience you have somehow found a way to get a pilot to be able to fly using an INACTIVE account.
If you have managed this then you are truly an MMO god.
As for my experience, my first time playing the game was in early 2004, I left after almost a year of play becuase of RL issues and started a new account in December of 2005. During all these times I have member a member of PIE, 1PG, Infinite Dreams, Sarum Guard, CAIN and a few others.
I have run characters for all 4 races and do have the nasty habit of starting over after each time I take a break from the game.
So please take your elitist play attitude and stick it in your missile tube.
Must've been a while since you last played Eve eh? Did you relise that you can now almost create a "specialised cov-ops" pilot in a few weeks? Create a Caldari toon of just the right spec, and you start the game at frigate 5, gunnery 5, and start with awesome learning attributes. So in a couple weeks, you gain access to T2 ships AND guns. 20au probes can be trained in a week or so depending on attributes.
Sorry man, but your "specialised cov-ops pilot", is little more than a 2 month old n00b by the standard of todays Eve.
BTW, PIE sounds a bit familiar. Was it Pie-Rats, or PIE Inc? 1PG has 38 members, and belongs to a pretty much dead alliance consisting of only one other corp called Imperial Star Guards with a whopping 12 members. CAIN consists of 1 member in a 1 member alliance, and Sarum Guard doesn't even exist as a corp OR alliance in Eve.
Odd really
But on the bright side, I hear Goonswarm might be recruiting
one of the points here is money. if, between all my accounts, on average, i am paying about $55 USD to ccp, is that not MORE money than the $15 USD (or less if you pay 3-, 6-, 12- months at a time) that a person with a single account would pay?
ccp WANTS you to have more than one account. no? then please explain why i keep getting emails from ccp about the power of 2? they've had at least two big marketing pushes for "the power of 2" this year.
so, with that in mind, it's a bit il-logical to think that ccp does NOT want you to have multiple accounts.
as someone else stated, if you're going to be a spy, you need multiple accounts. spies are a basic part of eve. to deny it, is to be in denial.
anyone that doesn't know how to use their high sp character is not a detriment to me. they're a detriment to themselves and the suckers they fly with. but, odds are, those people would be a detriment if they grew a character from the start to 100m sp.
some people are eternal noobs in any game, and others pick up every game within a week and are pros at it.
bottom line is twofold - 1 'ghost' training is a feature of the game from it's onset. it was removed before and quickly replaced. therefore ccp does NOT consider it a bug. 2 ccp WANTS you to have multiple accounts.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Interesting point some people make on the Eve boards.
One recurring theme you hear over and over and over again, in the now 143 page long new master thread (remember there’s also a 49 page old master thread that was locked), is that people see the ghost training as incentive for people to log back in. People sometimes have to take a break from the game, either because of rl or just because they’re bored or burned out on the game, but they set a skill to train before leaving, and they have more incentive to log back in, reactivate, knowing that it’s done. Really, that thought keeps popping up over and over and over in the thread.
CCP will lose money by removing that incentive.
I only repeat that here mainly because it’s something that people on this board who are from other games can relate to because it’s almost exactly like rested xp in other games.
Ghost training, like rested xp is limited. For ghost training, you set one skill level to train when you inactivate an Eve account, and only that one skill level runs to completion, there is no skill queue. You must reactivate and log in to continue advancing beyond that ONE skill level you got while you ‘rested.’. With rested xp in other games, just being logged out, and of course being inactive, gains you some xp, faster leveling, but only for a level or two.
It’s pretty much the same thing.
The reason Eve players are so disappointed in CCP is that they announced the change 2 days before they planned on implementing it, and CCP repeatedly lied about the reasons for it and also lied about trying to sweep it under the carpet by moving threads around.
More than that, Eve characters take so so so so so so much longer to advance than characters in other games, and there is no reset in expansions like other games to bring older and newer players on anywhere near a even playing field, ANY given account only has ONE fully functional character such that the character matters so much more per 15 dollars than in other mmos, that the ‘rested xp’ of ghost training is even more important in Eve than other mmos.
So, ya, just thought I’d bring up that parallel with rested xp in other games.
You don't "need" any of that. EVE is about making choices. You don't get to experience the entire game, just as in real life.
I have a scout alt, on my 3rd acct. I don't have a miner, mining sucks anyways, I do have a tackler, on my pimary account, but I never tackle, because he's even better at ewar, so I let my corp mates tackle. Two of my accounts can haul with industrials, haven't seen the need yet to fly the bigger ships, but it would be a simplet thing to add to one of them. Building, if I really wanted to, then I'd have a 4th account.
I have multiple accounts in EVE because I'm impatient, and so I was able to accomplish more in a shorter period of time. That's what you are going to have to do now too, though you might have been skirting the rules a bit to accomplish your goals.
Sure, the EVE forums are lit up with people complaining about this...the same 1000 people posting ad nasuem over the issue. No one is actually reading the threads, and in the end, I doubt CCP will much care.
But if it really bothers you that much, you are free to cancel your accounts and leave, the option we all have when the game pisses us off too much.
(oh wait, most of your accounts aren't active anyways, skip that last step)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you look at my blogs and other posts you will see I have recently returned to EVE and yes did start over. So in that sense yes my "pilot" is a noob.
PIE was PIE, INc, 1PG when I was part of it was not in an alliance, it was a bit back. The Sarum Guard was a corporation I founded in a previous character as was Infinite Dreams. Also a bit of history at one time CAIN was one of the largest Caldari RP corps not sure about now.
As for the Goonswarm, I like RP corps so I will likely gravitate to one of those.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
Well Mopar just to give you an idea how badly this is going effect CCP, I took a survey this past week in my alliance. So far, just in my alliance I have 253 players with mulitple accounts who have stated they are not reupping their 2nd or 3rd accounts because of this change. This is out of over 400 who replied.
Your rhetoric aside, Eve depends on players having a lot of mulitple accounts, it is quite beneficial in a lot of aspects of the game. This is going to hurt their bottom line. It is a braindead manuver and I find your counter arguments, baseless and ineffectual.
But you see your whole arguement is also useless when you realise to USE those alts you must have an active account. This means you must be paying if you are using the accounts. If you are tow the point that you have long enough skills to train that you are cancelling the account for at LEAST 30 days then I am wonmdering why the big deal, by that level the characters are VERY useful as they are, hence no reason to go dead on the account unless you are not going to play the character for a bit, if that is the case then what is the big deal.
Thew arguements about needing an ALT aside there is NO REASON to be upset about not getting to play the game for free when you started it knowing it was a paid game. In the case of your alliance it sounds like you are throwing away characters that are pretty developed for no good reason, your waste.
In my opinion if CCP has to give the game away for free in essence to the "power" players then they are not losing much by losing those accounts since they are actually a minority on the server.
However do what you must, it is game and you free to have your opinions and move on if you like. BTW all those cancelled accounts, can I have thier stuff ?
BTW where is the survey so I can vote?
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
I, like many here, wonder what they hope to gain by implementing this change.
It certainly isn't because of their stated reason:
"This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
First of all, in EVE, nobody actively puts time and energy into working on their characters. They don't, because nobody needs to do anything to train up skills except set the timer. The skill that takes two days to master will be done in two days whether a person plays two days straight or takes two days off. Anybody who says otherwise just doesn't know EVE. In fact, I'd say that the vast majority of characters in EVE don't have "time and energy" invested in them when training long skills. Whether subscribed or not, most of the training time is accrued at times when the player isn't logged on to EVE.
Nor does "ghost training" upset the balance of EVE. Combat balance is not unfairly distorted, because nobody engages in combat when ghost training, just as nobody engages in combat when they go away from an active account for a bunch of days.
The only difference between a character on an active account that sits for 60 days without a logon and a ghost trainer is the monetary value: $30. In fact, given CCP's policy on ISK for timecodes, a lot of active accounts don't pay CCP anything anyway.
Make no mistake, this isn't about the "balance of the game," nor is this about encouraging players to "actively put time and energy into working on their characters." It isn't, because there is no balance problem when characters aren't being played, and EVE characters don't require "time and energy" to advance. This is just an attempt by CCP to get players who cancelled to subscribe again...not necessarily to "play" EVE, but to "train in absentia," reinforcing the notion that EVE players already know. When it comes to character advancement, it doesn't matter whether you play EVE, it only matters that you pay EVE.
So then, why doesn't CCP just drop the facade that this is about "time and energy," or about "balance," and just make it so you pay money for SP? I'm sure that if we take the amount of SP gained per day, we can get an estimate as to how much each SP is worth in a dollar amount. Why not be able to pay a fee to get the skills that we want without having to wait around on an account we don't intend to use? That way, we don't need to worry about losing out on training time, and CCP gets more revenue. Everybody wins that way.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Yes agreed, playtime is more based on obtaining ISK than on skill training. People don't actively skill train like in more common MMOs. I don't understand how people here are confusing acquiring SPs with acquiring ISKs. I think it would make more sense to stop inactive account sell orders, manufacturing jobs and research jobs than to mess with SP training. These three things have far more effects on a character's advancement and on the EvE game as a whole than SP ghost training does imo. I'm surprised that players aren't crying more about that than about the SP ghost training.
The removal of ghost training is very annoying since it removes some of the flexibility I enjoyed with being an EvE player and having multiple accounts. As I explained in another thread, I used to have one account paid for by credit card, and one account 'paid' for by 90 day GTC. The credit card one is one I had to let lapse and ghost train twice, because of work-related issues. The 90 day GTC account was my main who I paid for for 2 years with a credit card as well before I started using the ISK-for-GTC option. Until my recent hiatus from the game, I was active on that account for a long time at a go since she was my trader/miner and made far more ISKs than my combat alt.
My combat alt was a nice addition since he could grind lvl 4 missions and haul when I mined and couldn't convince my corpmates to give me a hand. Quite a few people hate mining and hauling, so having the alt to haul is great. If I do consider coming back to EvE, I guess I'll be playing one account at a time
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.