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Is this classed as cheating?

clinteastclinteast Member UncommonPosts: 159

Hi I recentley posted a link to two e-games on here.  Fivemasters and Survival Project.

I appreciate your opinion on a matter.

Ok fivemasters is a game purely based on pvp either a ffa or teams. If you win you get xp to progress in lvl if you kill a players piece you register a kill and every say 10/60/100 kills you can exchange your piece for a more powerfull piece.

My question is that in this game people open up rooms and call them "Training" and in these rooms they exchange kills/wins.  I.e. Mr Blue says "I will let you kill all my pieces this game and let you win and vice versa next game".

Before you know it these people have access to chars/pieces in game that would have a took longer time to get.

So is this classed as cheating or is it just training?

Your opinions please..Thnx

P.s. Link to my thread in case your bored

http://5mforum.e-games.com.my/?f=2&m=134


Poor is the man whoose pleasure depends on the permission off another

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Comments

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476

    I vote cheating...

    Pretty lame. TOo many people in games nowadays ar worried about having the high score or the highest level. Not enough people just enjoying the trip towards the top.


  • DrakaeonDrakaeon Member Posts: 630

    It is classified as, "strategery."




  • Originally posted by clinteast

    Hi I recentley posted a link to two e-games on here.  Fivemasters and Survival Project.
    I appreciate your opinion on a matter.
    Ok fivemasters is a game purely based on pvp either a ffa or teams. If you win you get xp to progress in lvl if you kill a players piece you register a kill and every say 10/60/100 kills you can exchange your piece for a more powerfull piece.
    My question is that in this game people open up rooms and call them "Training" and in these rooms they exchange kills/wins.  I.e. Mr Blue says "I will let you kill all my pieces this game and let you win and vice versa next game".
    Before you know it these people have access to chars/pieces in game that would have a took longer time to get.
    So is this classed as cheating or is it just training?
    Your opinions please..Thnx
    P.s. Link to my thread in case your bored
    http://5mforum.e-games.com.my/?f=2&m=134

    Poor is the man whoose pleasure depends on the permission off another




     Not only that, any hardcore player can and will make multi accounts just to get ahead faster. This is known as "shadowboxing". So they do not always need to trade kills with another player. They can trade kills with their ownselves.

     Is this cheating? Ultimatly it comes down to a judgement call that has to be made by the game company. Not by you, me, or anyone else. Since we do not have the power to do anything about it, and it is not our game. If the game company cracks down on it, it is their decision. If the game company turns a blind eye to it, it is their decision. If you find you do not like whatever decision they make, stop playing, and pick another game you enjoy. If you do like whatever decision they make, continue enjoying the game.

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  • puffdragonpuffdragon Member Posts: 122

    It's called exploiting.

    Basically they arent breaking rules, but taking advantage of the way the game is and not playing it as intended.

    Developers of games usually look down upon exploiting and will have somewhere in the rules that exploiting will not be tolerated.

    Usually exploiting ruins the game for people who want to play the game as intended.

  • clinteastclinteast Member UncommonPosts: 159

    Well thanks for the responses and maybe exploiting is a better word than cheating.

    And xplororor I just asked for an opinion mate.  Not a lecture image

    I do enjoy the game but its hard to play if the majority are taking the easy route.  Damned if you do damned if you dont image

    Poor is the man whoose pleasure depends on the permission off another

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    image

  • puffdragonpuffdragon Member Posts: 122
    What you have to do is just make sure you dont play with exploiters...Get a group of non-exploiters that play.

  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    I wouldn't go so far as to say it's exploiting, in the sense that, say, duping is. What if it's two friends who are actually trying to beat each other, is it legit then? It's still in all likelyhood going to level them faster than playing a regular game.

    Some say it's poor design, then by all means, come up with a solution that prevents people from making a deal with someone to swap kills. Short of a GM type figure watching each and every game, you can't.

    image

  • JutsuJutsu Member Posts: 264
    This is definetely cheating... Its just ruining all the experiences in the game that you should see rather then someone else train you..

    (o'.')--------oo----('.'o)

    (o'.')--------oo----('.'o)

  • CeyanCeyan Member Posts: 39


    Originally posted by clinteast
    Hi I recentley posted a link to two e-games on here. Fivemasters and Survival Project.
    I appreciate your opinion on a matter.
    Ok fivemasters is a game purely based on pvp either a ffa or teams. If you win you get xp to progress in lvl if you kill a players piece you register a kill and every say 10/60/100 kills you can exchange your piece for a more powerfull piece.
    My question is that in this game people open up rooms and call them "Training" and in these rooms they exchange kills/wins. I.e. Mr Blue says "I will let you kill all my pieces this game and let you win and vice versa next game".
    Before you know it these people have access to chars/pieces in game that would have a took longer time to get.
    So is this classed as cheating or is it just training?
    Your opinions please..Thnx
    P.s. Link to my thread in case your bored
    http://5mforum.e-games.com.my/?f=2&m=134Poor is the man whoose pleasure depends on the permission off another

    To cheat, by definition, is to defy the rules of the game. Taken literally, there would have to be a set rule saying you CAN'T do that for it to really be called cheating. I doubt there is an actual rule that says that, but typically cheating is regulated to the concept of "any action taken which circumvents the developers intent on player actions in the normal course of the game." Basically, if you do something the developers didn't want you to do in the normal course of the game, you're cheating. In this case, I doubt the developers want people exploiting this oversight, in which case, yes it is a cheat by the typical standards. Opinions will always differ though.


  • lordthrawnlordthrawn Member Posts: 276
    cheating plain and simple and I might add lame too....of course you could argue that its the devs fault too but its really an open ended issue and can't be solved with just one party doing the right thing.

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  • CeyanCeyan Member Posts: 39


    Originally posted by lordthrawn
    cheating plain and simple and I might add lame too....of course you could argue that its the devs fault too but its really an open ended issue and can't be solved with just one party doing the right thing.image

    Really? So, in SSX3 when I put in the cheat which allows me to run the courses going uphill, instead of downhill, I'm doing something "lame"?

  • lordthrawnlordthrawn Member Posts: 276



    Originally posted by Ceyan




    Originally posted by lordthrawn
    cheating plain and simple and I might add lame too....of course you could argue that its the devs fault too but its really an open ended issue and can't be solved with just one party doing the right thing.

     

    Really? So, in SSX3 when I put in the cheat which allows me to run the courses going uphill, instead of downhill, I'm doing something "lame"?



    wtf are you talking about?  I was talking about the orginals posters complaint about the game he was playing.  why the hell are you bringing up ssx3?

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    image

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    Cheating, most definitely.

     

    The idea of PvP is to PvP, not to farm in a pseudo PvE surrounding, would the game be PvE it would be arguable if cheating or not(even in a PvE setting it would be cheating IMO, but arguable, depend if the progress would be extremely slow).  But in the case of a PvP game, it clearly violated the PvP intention for a dumb way of farming with no challenge.

     

    There is no risk, no challenge, there is not even PvP anymore in a game that is supposed to be PvP only, but sure gains, a GM seeing players doing so should either give them a strong warning or ban them right away.

     

    On a side note, players with multiple accounts will do so.  Unless you find a way to prevent it before stopping players with a single account that try to keep on the pace(and there is no way they will succeed) you should not start stopping the single account players before stopping the dual boxing freaks.  image

     

    Basic unwritten rule: Do you feel the risk+time is proportionnal to the reward you are getting, if you say yes, it is fine to do it.  If you say no because you gain way to much for what little risk you take, then it is exploiting or cheating.  The fact that a company fight cheating and exploits or ignore them dont change the fact that they are exploiting or cheating the game.  Exchanging kills without a fight or killing your own accounts in PvP is clearly a violation of the PvP rules.

     


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  • CillasiCillasi Member UncommonPosts: 335

    Well, it's not exactly cheating and it's not exactly exploiting, but it certainly isn't playing the game as intended.  The only way to remedy such a situation is to make it cost more than it's worth. 

    DAOC experienced a similar problem with their RvR system and realm points.  The solution was to place a timer on a player's realm point value.  So, the first time the player is killed, you get the full compliment of rps, but that same player is not worth any more rps for a certain period of time and it takes additional time for the player to rebuild up to max rps.

    So, instead of two players exchanging 10,000 rps an hour, they were reduced to exchanging 500 rps an hour.  Not worth the effort.  You could accumulate more rps by going out and earning them honestly.

  • FinweFinwe Member CommonPosts: 3,106

    I'd say its lame. Cheating, no. Lame, yes.

    As for "shadowboxing."

    I have no problem with it. If they have the money, and time to do that. Let them.

    "The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis

    "The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis

    "If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979

  • AckbarAckbar Member UncommonPosts: 927
    Id say its lame and therefore the game is lame. If i was the developers i would put a stop do this as id call it exploiting there should be a timer on if somone was already killed recently they are worth no kill points. If the developers dont plan on changing this the game would most definitly labelled the absolute suck.

    ----ITS A TRAP!!!----

    ----ITS A TRAP!!!----




  • Originally posted by clinteast

    Well thanks for the responses and maybe exploiting is a better word than cheating.
    And xplororor I just asked for an opinion mate.  Not a lecture image
    I do enjoy the game but its hard to play if the majority are taking the easy route.  Damned if you do damned if you dont image

    Poor is the man whoose pleasure depends on the permission off another



     Sorry if it seemed I was coming across as "lecturing". That was not my intention. I was just trying to cut to the chase and be as blatantly honest as possible. image There was another online MMORPG that had this exact same thing happen in it. I forget its name, it was 2 years ago I last played it. It had PvE with dungeons. And also PvP in arenas. Players could bet ingame money on which players won a fight vs other players. A friend and I leveled ourselves up letting each other win on purpose for 2 hours of fighting. The game company know this was widespread but made a judgement call to turn a blind eye to it - just like AC2 did when it found out almost everyone exploited when it first released.

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    MMORPG games I've played:
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    EVE Online !!!
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    DAoC (coming soon)
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  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201



    Originally posted by rentantilus
    Actually, I think that falls under the broad, very common category of "poorly-designed game."  Something that obvious is completely the fault of the development team.


    I completely agree.

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201



    As for "shadowboxing."
    I have no problem with it. If they have the money, and time to do that. Let them.



    I also agree with this.

  • RagalornRagalorn Member Posts: 75

    To answer the original post, this is cheating IMO.

    This was not what they intended when they made the game.

    image

  • GnarledGnarled Member Posts: 566
    Exploit of a design flaw. There should be a death penalty of some sort or other means of preventing it. People will find and use exploits, count on it.

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  • BladinBladin Member UncommonPosts: 1,089

    Whats the point in playing the game, if your just going to cheat?  I mean come on people... 90% of the fun is working for the pieces/levels/whatever.  Which is extremely lame.  Also people do something very similar in gunbound, which also sucks.

    Basicly its a bunch of nerds who don't like to play a game unless they are l337.  I'll work my way up there, and be a better player then you when i get there, even if you get there a week or a month faster then me, i will be a better player.

    image

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