Plus the fact that each expansion is vastly different in one way or another. It seems every time they get something working and everyone likes it, they chuck it all out the window and try something completely different w/o using any of the ideas that worked from last expansion.
Hey bahamut1,
I'm lost on this one. I can see where ROK went in a different direction (far too powered-up compared to the other, older starting zones), but could you explain a bit more about what you meant?
Well, let's take a walk down memory lane:
DoF: Massive combat change. A lot of people quit right here. In fact, I would venture a guess that half the population just up and quit. Now, it definitely was a needed change, as probably about half the population would have quit anyways, because of the true mess that combat had created. Tanks and clerics were gods and could easily take heroic mobs solo. Scouts and mages were screwed. While the change had to be done, it still killed the game for a lot of people.
KoS: First part of a massive tradeskill change, and raids had pretty much taken over. If you didn't raid, you got nothing. Except for a few nice items from quests, raid gear was IT, and the gap between raiders and soloers was the largest ever in the game. While the tradeskill changes were needed, SoE has a way of over doing things and made tradeskilling too easy. Again, a lot of the population, very small compared to DoF, left because of these changes and they just couldn't keep up with the leveling curve. Especially if they were not raiders.
SoE announces yearly expansions: Good news, no more broken content, and more content per expansion. Plus, instead of the "paid for" adventure packs, they would be free during the year.
EoF: Finally a full expansion, with evenly distributed content for everyone. Second part of the tradeskill changes, which basically just fixed the stuff they broke last expansion. Introduction of a lot of great ideas, and mechanics that were revolutionary in thought. Allowing people to "catch up" and get good gear whether they were soloers, groupers, or raiders. Having gear you could actually play with for a while before the next expansion. Problems were that a few things were broken at launch, and a lot of areas closed until finished. It was ok though, as it was a huge expansion, and the first of their yearly, and had a lot of stuff to do. Understandable, and arguably the best expansion EQ2 has had yet.
RoK: Oops, what the heck happened to all those great ideas introduced in last expansion? A complete soloing curve from 70-80 that completely left groupers out of the picture. There was a zone or two for grouping, but they had terrible itemization, and the experience curve for groupers was terrible. It was SO much more rewarding to solo through that noone grouped, AT ALL. Mid-70's players could LFG all day long and you just won't find a group, period, until you hit 79. That's just the way it was. Loot was completely screwed up, and a few zones, especially raids, were completely jacked. In fact, the main raid dungeon wasn't even working correctly till about 3 months into the exp when they FINALLY added epics (which were promised in the expansion). What happened to all the content? What happened to all the promises and great mechanics from EoF? Now I will give them credit for some of the best raids, after 4 months, that I've seen in a long time, and after itemizing everything in 3 patches or so, it was great. But WHY? Why go to all that trouble to make an expansion that you know is going to end up like last expansion eventually just from sheer player outcry.
TSO: Now there are several, nearly all of the expansion, group dungeons and group things to do. Sure, there will be a bunch of solo things and FOUR, omg, count them, FOUR, raids. So, in light of their last endeavor, they figure they will swing the pendulum back to groups and slowly phase out raiding altogether? I don't know, but we'll see what happens. I hope they don't mess it all up, and we spend 3 months waiting for them to fix everything back to how they did things 2 years ago.
Now, I'm in a top raiding guild, and solo, group, raid, makes no difference as long as it's fun, and I have plenty to do with my friends and still enjoy their great company. If they phase out raiding, then I'm gone. That's my game, it's what I like to do, and a game without raiding is pointless in a world filled with over 5k players in it. Getting together with my friends, talking about all our problems, and bashing some big mob over the head is the height of my gameplay. I always like having good challenges and lots of people to work with towards that goal.
I still think though, even with all the gripes I have, it's still the best MMO out there. I've played all the others and there are HUGE glaring problems that just cannot be overcome in those "other games". Also, pvp hasn't really got a big draw for me. I like working with others, and pvp is fine as long as it's completely optional. I've played pvp only games and they're fun, but I just like pve much better.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
ps: I've heard WoW groups req CC for certain dungeons and raids ... hmmm
I tried WoW after years in EQ2 and DAOC and i just couldn't get use to simplicity .Manage to last 1 month and that was it.I was told by several other EQ/EQ2 gamers that they had same problem when they tried it.
I just couldn't go "down" in quality, it was to much for me.I believe that you would find same problem.
I was listening to podcast and he brought up a good point; Why doesn't EQ2 have more players? With the tons of content and great community why do you think EQ2 can't retain its player base or add to it. It always seems to hover around the same amount of people. Now, new people join, but they seem to quit a month or so later. To me, it seems like EQ2 just can't really grow like WOW, or WAR. What do you think the problem is?
IMO its mix between the incredibly bad release of the game and the lack oif 'Good" pvp....Ive been told by many peeps that they wish they have something to do other then questing and i think i agree.
I was listening to podcast and he brought up a good point; Why doesn't EQ2 have more players? With the tons of content and great community why do you think EQ2 can't retain its player base or add to it. It always seems to hover around the same amount of people. Now, new people join, but they seem to quit a month or so later. To me, it seems like EQ2 just can't really grow like WOW, or WAR. What do you think the problem is?
IMO its mix between the incredibly bad release of the game and the lack oif 'Good" pvp....Ive been told by many peeps that they wish they have something to do other then questing and i think i agree.
The PVP is actually quite good, the only problem is that to be solo pvp viable you can't really be a tank, and you WILL be doing a lot of solo pvp if you are low level. Also, you are forced to level in much fewer zones than on a PVE server. For example, if you don't want to be ganked every 5 seconds at around lvl 20(freeport/neriak), you have to avoid leveling in Thundering Steppes and Butcherblock Mtns and basically have to level in Nektulos Forest. Nek Forest is very immersive but the quests and rewards suck. No one plays the adventure packs under Nek Forest so you can't experience that content, if they did it might be more tolerable to be restricted there. So you are severely restricting the pve game on a PVP server and things will become linear. I can only imagine what it is like at lvl 40 or so where there are no good/evil zones. Must be hell. SOE could easily address this by updating old zones instead of just piling on more and more as they tend to do in both EQ1 and 2 expansions.
EQ2's biggest problem is in the combat engine. Combat is not satisfying and doesn't feel right no matter which class you play. When the most basic mechanics of a game aren't fun, it's as good as dead.
There's other things you can find to criticize about EQ2 but no matter what anybody else says, fun factor is what sells a game. How much marketing did Counterstrike get? None. It's still popular today because the core gameplay just works for alot of people.
I would think it's because there is almost no marketing for the game. They might put ads in gaming magazines, but seriously how many people actually buy those.
Also, maybe the system requirements are still a bit high for some people. Just guessing
i think its a mix of lack of Marketing, no massive announcements for most of this year and the natural effect that gamers move on. most games keep a solid base level of loyal players whilst the rest tend to move from new release to new release - nothing wrong with that but not many games continue to grow years after their initial release.
Graphics are overaged *they need to be updated like EQ1 or Wow or DaoC catacombs*, no gamecards (for users that don't want to use credit cards) or paypal payment system, no large pvp chapter like wow, frequent lags. (Correct me in those if I am wrong since I only played the 14 day trail). :P
overaged? I just do not see that. I see great graphics. Just my opinion but they are some of the best in the business. One of my game play screenshots riding through Thundering Steppes.
Plastic ugly horse
Plastic ugly character models
nasty looking armour
Barren generic environment
The birds even look sooo generic and I bet they still have the horrible stiff wing animation too.
Great engine but a Horrible looking game, WOW just looks sooooooooooo much better and thats just a great example of how art style makes all the difference.
The first part your feeling about the graphic I totally disagree with. So I will not try to sell you on it. I love the look of EQ2, you do not. However I am curious as to why you needed to compare EQ2's graphics to WoW's. I been playing both games since their release. I love both games. I think both have great graphics. The addition of dynamic shadows to WoW really helped the look of WoW. I love those shadows. Comparing their graphics is ridiculous, they have totally different looks. There art direction are not even close, so comparing them really does not make sense in an artistic evaluation. WoW is great EQ2 is great. Yes, you can love both game despite what many claim here. Although if asked I think EQ2's graphics are better and they immersme me into the game world far better then WoW. EQ2 feels alive to me and the graphics are the reason.
I compare them because they came out at the same time where WOW has a low tech engine but amazing art and EQ2 has a higher tech engine but shit art. Whenever I tried to get my friends to play the EQ2 trial none of them would because they all hated the graphics. I don't know anyone who likes the graphics myself and I really think it's the games downfall aswel as all the zoning.
I loved the look of EQ2 when it was in development because it looked more real and I thought it was going to be one big open world to explore with lots in it. However the problem was everything was split into small zones that were barren and just plain ugly. The game looked sooo much better in development and even had better armour but I guess because the game was rushed they forgot about detail and put osme ugly character models in.
I don't like the graphics in EQ2 or the armor looks like a cartoon and very fake... I like vangaurd a little more then EQ2 both sony games... plus the crafting in EQ2 is really long and drawed out and seems everything is just to spread out also WOW has alot better questing system then EQ2 and more user friendly... plus its made by blizzard.
I like grapics of EQ2, even not fare as good as Age de Conan. The thing is even if EQ2 perhaps has not the best grapics it is gode enough for this game. many other thing is gode in EQ2.
I find myself asking the the same question as the OP. I have played a smattering of other online games like WoW, SWG, and Guild Wars, but found certain things in them that I personally didn't like. In WoW it was the cartoon graphics, in SWG it was a lot of things...Guild Wars is actually pretty kick A** for what it is. It's not a real MMORPG, or a single player game, but something somewhere in between that can be a lot of fun.
In terms of EQII I love the variety of characters you can play, the huge customization possibilities for your character skills/abilties, the amount and variety of quests for all play styles (I like solo and small groups, I personally don't get the concept of raids), and the graphics. Love this game. I find it easy to join up with another player or two for quests that require more man-power. I just don't like having to group with 20 people, that just doesn't make sense to me and kills immersion.
I was listening to podcast and he brought up a good point; Why doesn't EQ2 have more players? With the tons of content and great community why do you think EQ2 can't retain its player base or add to it. It always seems to hover around the same amount of people. Now, new people join, but they seem to quit a month or so later. To me, it seems like EQ2 just can't really grow like WOW, or WAR. What do you think the problem is?
Please don't flame me for saying this, because this is just my experience and what "many" others have experienced as well.
In EQ2, there is a lot of content, many classes, several starting areas, and more in depth gameplay than Wow. This is true. However, the game runs like crap on newer systems, or at least it did, because it didn't take advantage of the new hardware out there. The graphics also didn't look polish, although they were technically advanced. The game, in its first 2 years, was created for systems a few years ahead of its time, but the industry went the way of duo cores instead of higher clock rates on single processors. This made playing the game on any setting worth looking at impossible for the majority of players out there. A game only has 1 chance to make a first impression not only on the players, but the entire market. So EQ2 made a bad impression and never recovered from it.
There are other reasons why I think EQ2 doesn't have many subscribers, but I think I hit on a few already.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I was listening to podcast and he brought up a good point; Why doesn't EQ2 have more players? With the tons of content and great community why do you think EQ2 can't retain its player base or add to it. It always seems to hover around the same amount of people. Now, new people join, but they seem to quit a month or so later. To me, it seems like EQ2 just can't really grow like WOW, or WAR. What do you think the problem is?
Please don't flame me for saying this, because this is just my experience and what "many" others have experienced as well.
In EQ2, there is a lot of content, many classes, several starting areas, and more in depth gameplay than Wow. This is true. However, the game runs like crap on newer systems, or at least it did, because it didn't take advantage of the new hardware out there. The graphics also didn't look polish, although they were technically advanced. The game, in its first 2 years, was created for systems a few years ahead of its time, but the industry went the way of duo cores instead of higher clock rates on single processors. This made playing the game on any setting worth looking at impossible for the majority of players out there. A game only has 1 chance to make a first impression not only on the players, but the entire market. So EQ2 made a bad impression and never recovered from it.
There are other reasons why I think EQ2 doesn't have many subscribers, but I think I hit on a few already.
*sighs* They just added multicore capability and I run the game just fine on high settings with a single core Athlon 3700+, 2 gigs of ram, and a geforce 7600GT. The only things I have problems with is if I'm in a city (where EVERYONE lags) or if I've been zoning a hundred times.
*sighs* They just added multicore capability and I run the game just fine on high settings with a single core Athlon 3700+, 2 gigs of ram, and a geforce 7600GT. The only things I have problems with is if I'm in a city (where EVERYONE lags) or if I've been zoning a hundred times.
Funny, I thought I was part of everyobody... I havn't played since may but then my old rigg (Quad 2.95 with 8800 GTS) run every city without lagg except neriak. On US servers though, on EU servers I lagged impossible much everywhere even though I live in sweden. Im not the only one with that problem, the EU serverpark sucks and many EU players use US servers.
Bt it is a very good game. The avatars really need that revamp however, the clothing is the ugliest thing in the game. Also they could use shadows and lightning a bit better.
But the main thing that kept EQ2 from becoming huge is the fact thatit initially was bad and while the expansions and patches fixed that, people who doesn't play havn't heard anything about the game in a long time. SOE should really work on marketing of EQ2 and Vanguard, they are great games.
I think it's the marketing like most people have said it's a great game fast action paced levelling up speed is fast and a lot of content at the end loads of ways to improve your character by having AA points, loads of ways to waste your time in game mini games houses great crafting etc, by looking at all of them facts it's 99% of what the western mmo gamer wants there should be a lot more playing this game.
The more I play this game the more mystified I am that it doesn't have millions of players. I have an up-to-date computer (2 x 8800 Ultra SLI, dual core proc, etc...) and it runs well on "very high settings" It doesn't love "extreme quality" but I see almost no difference between "Extreme" and "Very High." To me it's a lot like WoW in some respects but with more variety to character development, and better graphics. I'm only level 18 though so I'm sure there are a lot more differences I'll figure out as time goes on. Bottom line, the game is extremely fun for me.
It is a good game today. I play a lot of games and between Vanguard and EQ2 I just keep coming back for more. EQ2's most recent update really pushed it up a notch in my opinion. The Guild halls just blow the socks off any other game. Anyway I also like how EQ2 gets constant development and is evolving. The world events are usually pretty nice and it seems to me like the game gets better and better over time.
I do also find it odd that games like EQ2 and Vanguard aren't able to attract more people. I guess I'd have to place the blame on SoE. They really don't seem to push their games or know how to market them. I went in the store yesterday to preorder the new EQ2 expansion and when I walked in there was a Giant wow lich king poster, a self with a ton of preorder box art, and the entire store was shouting buy wow. I didn't see a single thing about eq2. There were a few boxes on the shelf but NOTHING at all about an expansion. I had to ask the guy at the counter and he put the order in the computer. He said they didn't have any boxes or promo stuff but they would call me when something came in.
So there my friends is why eq2 isn't doing better. The game is solid, has a lot to offer but nobody knows about it and to the common gamer they would logically conclude the game is dead.
Well I have been in and out of this game since beta. I am currently subscribed and playing. I find there are a few things that this game has that cause poeple to leave on a regular basis. I agree with your points exactly... they're most of the reasons I no longer play EQ2. The first thing is the reputation that Sony has in the MMO community. They own the biggest mistake in gaming history, namely the CU / NGE disaster of SWG. In that case you had a very loyal and interested fan base that was playing a very unique game. The developers wanted to capture some of the WOW market and drastically changed the game several times. This was viewed by the vocal majority and an epic failure and the shock wave can still be felt to this day. IN fact MMORGP.com had to start an "I'm angry at SOE flame thread" for every game this company puts out. Some people will not go near a Sony game for this reason and they have friends that have friends and so on. Even after the fiasco of SWG, I still played EQ2 for almost a year... but it just never got any better. Sony screwed themselves with their lack of attention to the customer base and their TERRIBLE customer service.
I've NEVER had a bad customer service experience and I've been with the game almost since the day it opened. If you did, then its something YOU did, not SOE CSR's. As for this insanity of SWG, get over it already. Its just a bloody game. Incidentally, if any of you bothered to try SWG again, you'd find that much of the things that they took out are now back because Lucas involved himself in it. Ah, ok. Since I had bad CS experiences and you didn't... I deserved it and it was my fault. M'kay, that makes sense. As for the SWG mess, I am over it.. been over it since the CU. As for trying it again, no thanks. The second reason is that the developers change the game on a regualr basis. I have been back over a month and so far there have not been any huge changes and this surprises me a great deal. The developers use to alter the game a lot on a regualr basis. While all games change and evolve, the Sony developers dropped the ball on a regular basis and some people just don't like to invest time in a game to see their hard work nerfed out of existance. A lot of that went on the first year, as did with SWG. Sony liked to change the way professions worked. One day you could solo something and then a patch came out and the next day you were nerfed into oblivion. I remember that happening to my Warden. Interesting how it never did to mine. Regardless whining about it over and over and over again just gets annoying to hear and it doesn't change anything. If you don't like the game, then go elsewhere just like normal people do when they don't like something. Can you link to where I've been whining and whining about it? I saw this post and responded to it... once- and that's because I no longer play EQ2 or SWG. Feel free to check my posting history. You seem to be a bit on edge here and jumping to conclusions. The third reason is they tend to release a lot of expansions in a very short time. Instead of releasing one major expansion they prefer to release a lot of smaller ones and charge for each one. This gets old fast. In contrast, other games provide updates and upgrades for free. Sony does do a lot of things in the game for free also but this is overshadowed by the constant marketing blitz for their latest expansion. They will usually offer a bundle deal for new players at a much lower price than existing players can buy the new content for. Yup.. very true. The DoF expansion was a mess when it first came out. There were lockouts in specific zones because those areas weren't even in game yet, but Sony never admitted to it... even when there were screenshots from people who made it into those zones only to see white areas with nothing in them. In the one year I played, there was an expansion and two adventure packs... you paid for it all. DoF was the first expansion... again, get over it. That was years ago. Let me repeat myself again, in the hopes that you'll understand. I am over it. I stopped playing SWG after the CU and EQ2 after the release of DoF. I am responding to a question posed on why EQ2 doesn't attract more players. Just because you don't like my answers doesn't mean I don't have a right to voice my opinion. You really need to get over *that*. Finally I think that in the past, Sony showed little interest in the customer base. They were more interested in making you like what they put out rather than exploring what we wanted. People have a choice and this tactic will not work for long. They use to have the worst customer service bar none. Since I have returned to the game I have found just the oposite to be true now. Customer service will bend over backwards to help you in the game today. I have only used them once and was amazed at the level of service and how much it has come up. This is the area that finally made me leave EQ2 and vow never again to play or purchase an SOE game again. Their customer service was rude and accusatory... the worst CS I have ever experienced in *any* situation. Their community managers at the time were arrogant (I think it was Thunderguard and Blackguard.. or something like that). When DoF came out, they had a quest that rewarded a Master Spell (which at that time was VERY difficult to come by). All of the top guilds did the quests and received the spells. After people complained that it was too good of a reward, they changed it to an Adept 1 spell and allowed whoever had received the Master spell to keep it. The community was outraged. I remember reading about 25 pages of one topic and the community managers ignored it. Once again, if you had that experience, then it was something YOU did, not SOE. Neither I, nor any member of my 654 member guild, has EVER complained about having a bad CSR experience. 25 pages of complaints about that situation from all different customers can hardly be blamed on me. So, as you can see... there were others complaining about SoE's tactics and responses. It's widely known there were huge CS problems in the beginning of EQ2's life. Your statement of 654 people never having a CS complaint is amazing... almost unbelieveable. Overall, if you have not played EQ2 you are missing one of the best MMOs ever produced and a ton of content. I am glad I came back and I see evidence that perhaps Sony has finally gotten a handle on some of the flaws that have held this title back for years. I play on the PVP server and it is a blast. Exactly.
I'm sure EQ2 is a great game today and I'm happy to hear they've taken care of the Customer Service mess. Unfortunately for them, I gave them two chances with two of their games and both times it ended up to be a fiasco. There won't be a third.
These days, there's games and companies out there who appreciate their customers and treat them well. I'm glad Sony has decided they can't compete with other companies unless they clean up their act.
Then you are hearing what you want to hear and not the truth. Either that or you're making things up.
Not sure what you mean by the last statement. I was complimenting the fact that it appears SoE has taken care of their CS issues. You seem to be looking for things in my post that aren't there.
Just because I state things that you don't want to hear or believe doesn't mean they're made up. There are plenty of people who experienced the same issues that I did, so I'm not alone. I joined in on this topic because I had experiences to share. Whether you like them or not is not the issue here. Don't take my negative experiences with EQ2, SWG and SOE personally. Not everyone is going to like the games you do.
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
I was listening to podcast and he brought up a good point; Why doesn't EQ2 have more players? With the tons of content and great community why do you think EQ2 can't retain its player base or add to it. It always seems to hover around the same amount of people. Now, new people join, but they seem to quit a month or so later. To me, it seems like EQ2 just can't really grow like WOW, or WAR. What do you think the problem is?
Why should it have more? The numbers it has is the numbers it earned.
EQ2 might have a good community now, but that wasn't my experience at launch day. Way too many selfish people.
What believe are reasons why EQ2 doesn't grow the way it could:
1. The game changes a lot (and I mean A LOT) and the AA system made early chars from accounts of people coming back pretty weak, had the same problem when coming back this summer.
2. The solo content for someone of my class (Troubadour) is pretty narrow ... I spend a lot of time doing greyed out quests as those mobs I can handle with much trouble but I'm pretty often hunted down in areas with green or blue mobs by named heroics - not so fun. As there aren't so extremly many player and they keep adding zones all the time instead of adding content to existing zones the player are stretched thinner all the time too.
3. The frequent server crashs for single zones - that is SO annoying and frustrating. As you have to zone a lot chances that you hit a crashing zone are pretty high. And than you have to wait a few minutes and if it was a time-lock zone you are screwed of course ... The zoning in itself is already not very immersive too of course.
4. Crafting grind. I'm definitelly spolied by the Vanguard system by now, there you have to think and calculate, here it mostly works to hit the same buttons all the time. Becomes old pretty soon. Not even starting on the harvesting topic, I was really in trouble when going into zones of my level as a Troubadour ... Since the guild hall introduction the harvester npc's have improved for me the most annoying feature of the crafter life very much though!
5. The heterogenous localization ... there are still so often mistakes in the translation in german, like item names in a quest different from the names ingame ... it is tiring and annoying to hunt those inconsistencies down.
Bottom line: There are several things in EQ2 I love and that makes it for me a good game to come back as I did now around 10 month ago. The events are really nice, the huge amount of quests, a lot of lore, very nice housing system (though placing books in a shelf is PAINFUL), a lot of pets and mounts, great variety in looks since the second paperdoll was introduced and a very nice leveling curve now for casual players (people with family and jobs!) as well.
So it is worth a try but the things named above and reinventing the game all the time isn't very helpful.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ... Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2 Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
I remember watching the development of this game.Played EQ1 for years and was looking forward to it.People pleaded with SOE to make solo possible.Not comparable with grouping,just possible for most classes.
SOE and the seeming majority of outspoken followers of the game said "go play a single player game if you want solo".
They may have made it easier now.I'll never find out though,one chance for a first impression and all that.
WoW released weeks later with easy solo..not sure how that turned out,anyone know which game has more players?
D&D online did the exact same thing years later.I watched in amazement as the devs,and the vocal community proclaimed "If you are online in this game,you will group,and you will like it".People have jobs and commitments,usually I have an hour to play on weeknights.40 minutes after I log on the group is formed and I'm at the dungeon...after the first pull,ok gotta go guys...
I remember watching the development of this game.Played EQ1 for years and was looking forward to it.People pleaded with SOE to make solo possible.Not comparable with grouping,just possible for most classes. SOE and the seeming majority of outspoken followers of the game said "go play a single player game if you want solo". They may have made it easier now.I'll never find out though,one chance for a first impression and all that. WoW released weeks later with easy solo..not sure how that turned out,anyone know which game has more players? D&D online did the exact same thing years later.I watched in amazement as the devs,and the vocal community proclaimed "If you are online in this game,you will group,and you will like it".People have jobs and commitments,usually I have an hour to play on weeknights.40 minutes after I log on the group is formed and I'm at the dungeon...after the first pull,ok gotta go guys... *Shrug*
Sadly the "go play a single player game" crowd is alive and well and is in full cry in the TSO beta forums..honestly what the hell the devs are thinking about with this expansion is beyond me a big overland zone for sure 150 or so quests and then nothing for the solo/duo type player..just dungoens aimed at full groups (good luck with that on some servers too) more or less a waste of an expansion in my eyes.
Of course there had to be focus on groupage with this one but not at the complete expense of other playstyles..ROK was bad but this ones worse in my eyes becuase they've repeated the mistakes but just reversed the order of them the mind boggles.
I think if you look at the Oboards the general meh-ness feeling about this expansion is evident..all other xpacs have had thousands of posts about them but there just seems to be a trickle since the NDA was lifted.
As for me this expansion is the straw that broke the camels back and i've cancelled my subscription big shame as it was a great game.
Comments
Used to love it, but got burned out by the farmers. Kinda lost all fun then,
Hey bahamut1,
I'm lost on this one. I can see where ROK went in a different direction (far too powered-up compared to the other, older starting zones), but could you explain a bit more about what you meant?
Well, let's take a walk down memory lane:
DoF: Massive combat change. A lot of people quit right here. In fact, I would venture a guess that half the population just up and quit. Now, it definitely was a needed change, as probably about half the population would have quit anyways, because of the true mess that combat had created. Tanks and clerics were gods and could easily take heroic mobs solo. Scouts and mages were screwed. While the change had to be done, it still killed the game for a lot of people.
KoS: First part of a massive tradeskill change, and raids had pretty much taken over. If you didn't raid, you got nothing. Except for a few nice items from quests, raid gear was IT, and the gap between raiders and soloers was the largest ever in the game. While the tradeskill changes were needed, SoE has a way of over doing things and made tradeskilling too easy. Again, a lot of the population, very small compared to DoF, left because of these changes and they just couldn't keep up with the leveling curve. Especially if they were not raiders.
SoE announces yearly expansions: Good news, no more broken content, and more content per expansion. Plus, instead of the "paid for" adventure packs, they would be free during the year.
EoF: Finally a full expansion, with evenly distributed content for everyone. Second part of the tradeskill changes, which basically just fixed the stuff they broke last expansion. Introduction of a lot of great ideas, and mechanics that were revolutionary in thought. Allowing people to "catch up" and get good gear whether they were soloers, groupers, or raiders. Having gear you could actually play with for a while before the next expansion. Problems were that a few things were broken at launch, and a lot of areas closed until finished. It was ok though, as it was a huge expansion, and the first of their yearly, and had a lot of stuff to do. Understandable, and arguably the best expansion EQ2 has had yet.
RoK: Oops, what the heck happened to all those great ideas introduced in last expansion? A complete soloing curve from 70-80 that completely left groupers out of the picture. There was a zone or two for grouping, but they had terrible itemization, and the experience curve for groupers was terrible. It was SO much more rewarding to solo through that noone grouped, AT ALL. Mid-70's players could LFG all day long and you just won't find a group, period, until you hit 79. That's just the way it was. Loot was completely screwed up, and a few zones, especially raids, were completely jacked. In fact, the main raid dungeon wasn't even working correctly till about 3 months into the exp when they FINALLY added epics (which were promised in the expansion). What happened to all the content? What happened to all the promises and great mechanics from EoF? Now I will give them credit for some of the best raids, after 4 months, that I've seen in a long time, and after itemizing everything in 3 patches or so, it was great. But WHY? Why go to all that trouble to make an expansion that you know is going to end up like last expansion eventually just from sheer player outcry.
TSO: Now there are several, nearly all of the expansion, group dungeons and group things to do. Sure, there will be a bunch of solo things and FOUR, omg, count them, FOUR, raids. So, in light of their last endeavor, they figure they will swing the pendulum back to groups and slowly phase out raiding altogether? I don't know, but we'll see what happens. I hope they don't mess it all up, and we spend 3 months waiting for them to fix everything back to how they did things 2 years ago.
Now, I'm in a top raiding guild, and solo, group, raid, makes no difference as long as it's fun, and I have plenty to do with my friends and still enjoy their great company. If they phase out raiding, then I'm gone. That's my game, it's what I like to do, and a game without raiding is pointless in a world filled with over 5k players in it. Getting together with my friends, talking about all our problems, and bashing some big mob over the head is the height of my gameplay. I always like having good challenges and lots of people to work with towards that goal.
I still think though, even with all the gripes I have, it's still the best MMO out there. I've played all the others and there are HUGE glaring problems that just cannot be overcome in those "other games". Also, pvp hasn't really got a big draw for me. I like working with others, and pvp is fine as long as it's completely optional. I've played pvp only games and they're fun, but I just like pve much better.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I tried WoW after years in EQ2 and DAOC and i just couldn't get use to simplicity .Manage to last 1 month and that was it.I was told by several other EQ/EQ2 gamers that they had same problem when they tried it.
I just couldn't go "down" in quality, it was to much for me.I believe that you would find same problem.
IMO its mix between the incredibly bad release of the game and the lack oif 'Good" pvp....Ive been told by many peeps that they wish they have something to do other then questing and i think i agree.
IMO its mix between the incredibly bad release of the game and the lack oif 'Good" pvp....Ive been told by many peeps that they wish they have something to do other then questing and i think i agree.
The PVP is actually quite good, the only problem is that to be solo pvp viable you can't really be a tank, and you WILL be doing a lot of solo pvp if you are low level. Also, you are forced to level in much fewer zones than on a PVE server. For example, if you don't want to be ganked every 5 seconds at around lvl 20(freeport/neriak), you have to avoid leveling in Thundering Steppes and Butcherblock Mtns and basically have to level in Nektulos Forest. Nek Forest is very immersive but the quests and rewards suck. No one plays the adventure packs under Nek Forest so you can't experience that content, if they did it might be more tolerable to be restricted there. So you are severely restricting the pve game on a PVP server and things will become linear. I can only imagine what it is like at lvl 40 or so where there are no good/evil zones. Must be hell. SOE could easily address this by updating old zones instead of just piling on more and more as they tend to do in both EQ1 and 2 expansions.
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.
EQ2's biggest problem is in the combat engine. Combat is not satisfying and doesn't feel right no matter which class you play. When the most basic mechanics of a game aren't fun, it's as good as dead.
There's other things you can find to criticize about EQ2 but no matter what anybody else says, fun factor is what sells a game. How much marketing did Counterstrike get? None. It's still popular today because the core gameplay just works for alot of people.
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I would think it's because there is almost no marketing for the game. They might put ads in gaming magazines, but seriously how many people actually buy those.
Also, maybe the system requirements are still a bit high for some people. Just guessing
i think its a mix of lack of Marketing, no massive announcements for most of this year and the natural effect that gamers move on. most games keep a solid base level of loyal players whilst the rest tend to move from new release to new release - nothing wrong with that but not many games continue to grow years after their initial release.
To err is human....to play is divine
overaged? I just do not see that. I see great graphics. Just my opinion but they are some of the best in the business. One of my game play screenshots riding through Thundering Steppes.
Plastic ugly horse
Plastic ugly character models
nasty looking armour
Barren generic environment
The birds even look sooo generic and I bet they still have the horrible stiff wing animation too.
Great engine but a Horrible looking game, WOW just looks sooooooooooo much better and thats just a great example of how art style makes all the difference.
The first part your feeling about the graphic I totally disagree with. So I will not try to sell you on it. I love the look of EQ2, you do not. However I am curious as to why you needed to compare EQ2's graphics to WoW's. I been playing both games since their release. I love both games. I think both have great graphics. The addition of dynamic shadows to WoW really helped the look of WoW. I love those shadows. Comparing their graphics is ridiculous, they have totally different looks. There art direction are not even close, so comparing them really does not make sense in an artistic evaluation. WoW is great EQ2 is great. Yes, you can love both game despite what many claim here. Although if asked I think EQ2's graphics are better and they immersme me into the game world far better then WoW. EQ2 feels alive to me and the graphics are the reason.
I compare them because they came out at the same time where WOW has a low tech engine but amazing art and EQ2 has a higher tech engine but shit art. Whenever I tried to get my friends to play the EQ2 trial none of them would because they all hated the graphics. I don't know anyone who likes the graphics myself and I really think it's the games downfall aswel as all the zoning.
I loved the look of EQ2 when it was in development because it looked more real and I thought it was going to be one big open world to explore with lots in it. However the problem was everything was split into small zones that were barren and just plain ugly. The game looked sooo much better in development and even had better armour but I guess because the game was rushed they forgot about detail and put osme ugly character models in.
I don't like the graphics in EQ2 or the armor looks like a cartoon and very fake... I like vangaurd a little more then EQ2 both sony games... plus the crafting in EQ2 is really long and drawed out and seems everything is just to spread out also WOW has alot better questing system then EQ2 and more user friendly... plus its made by blizzard.
I like grapics of EQ2, even not fare as good as Age de Conan. The thing is even if EQ2 perhaps has not the best grapics it is gode enough for this game. many other thing is gode in EQ2.
I find myself asking the the same question as the OP. I have played a smattering of other online games like WoW, SWG, and Guild Wars, but found certain things in them that I personally didn't like. In WoW it was the cartoon graphics, in SWG it was a lot of things...Guild Wars is actually pretty kick A** for what it is. It's not a real MMORPG, or a single player game, but something somewhere in between that can be a lot of fun.
In terms of EQII I love the variety of characters you can play, the huge customization possibilities for your character skills/abilties, the amount and variety of quests for all play styles (I like solo and small groups, I personally don't get the concept of raids), and the graphics. Love this game. I find it easy to join up with another player or two for quests that require more man-power. I just don't like having to group with 20 people, that just doesn't make sense to me and kills immersion.
A/V Nerd-
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Please don't flame me for saying this, because this is just my experience and what "many" others have experienced as well.
In EQ2, there is a lot of content, many classes, several starting areas, and more in depth gameplay than Wow. This is true. However, the game runs like crap on newer systems, or at least it did, because it didn't take advantage of the new hardware out there. The graphics also didn't look polish, although they were technically advanced. The game, in its first 2 years, was created for systems a few years ahead of its time, but the industry went the way of duo cores instead of higher clock rates on single processors. This made playing the game on any setting worth looking at impossible for the majority of players out there. A game only has 1 chance to make a first impression not only on the players, but the entire market. So EQ2 made a bad impression and never recovered from it.
There are other reasons why I think EQ2 doesn't have many subscribers, but I think I hit on a few already.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Please don't flame me for saying this, because this is just my experience and what "many" others have experienced as well.
In EQ2, there is a lot of content, many classes, several starting areas, and more in depth gameplay than Wow. This is true. However, the game runs like crap on newer systems, or at least it did, because it didn't take advantage of the new hardware out there. The graphics also didn't look polish, although they were technically advanced. The game, in its first 2 years, was created for systems a few years ahead of its time, but the industry went the way of duo cores instead of higher clock rates on single processors. This made playing the game on any setting worth looking at impossible for the majority of players out there. A game only has 1 chance to make a first impression not only on the players, but the entire market. So EQ2 made a bad impression and never recovered from it.
There are other reasons why I think EQ2 doesn't have many subscribers, but I think I hit on a few already.
*sighs* They just added multicore capability and I run the game just fine on high settings with a single core Athlon 3700+, 2 gigs of ram, and a geforce 7600GT. The only things I have problems with is if I'm in a city (where EVERYONE lags) or if I've been zoning a hundred times.
I'm glad they finally got around to making it multi-core compatible.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Funny, I thought I was part of everyobody... I havn't played since may but then my old rigg (Quad 2.95 with 8800 GTS) run every city without lagg except neriak. On US servers though, on EU servers I lagged impossible much everywhere even though I live in sweden. Im not the only one with that problem, the EU serverpark sucks and many EU players use US servers.
Bt it is a very good game. The avatars really need that revamp however, the clothing is the ugliest thing in the game. Also they could use shadows and lightning a bit better.
But the main thing that kept EQ2 from becoming huge is the fact thatit initially was bad and while the expansions and patches fixed that, people who doesn't play havn't heard anything about the game in a long time. SOE should really work on marketing of EQ2 and Vanguard, they are great games.
I think it's the marketing like most people have said it's a great game fast action paced levelling up speed is fast and a lot of content at the end loads of ways to improve your character by having AA points, loads of ways to waste your time in game mini games houses great crafting etc, by looking at all of them facts it's 99% of what the western mmo gamer wants there should be a lot more playing this game.
The more I play this game the more mystified I am that it doesn't have millions of players. I have an up-to-date computer (2 x 8800 Ultra SLI, dual core proc, etc...) and it runs well on "very high settings" It doesn't love "extreme quality" but I see almost no difference between "Extreme" and "Very High." To me it's a lot like WoW in some respects but with more variety to character development, and better graphics. I'm only level 18 though so I'm sure there are a lot more differences I'll figure out as time goes on. Bottom line, the game is extremely fun for me.
A/V Nerd-
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It is a good game today. I play a lot of games and between Vanguard and EQ2 I just keep coming back for more. EQ2's most recent update really pushed it up a notch in my opinion. The Guild halls just blow the socks off any other game. Anyway I also like how EQ2 gets constant development and is evolving. The world events are usually pretty nice and it seems to me like the game gets better and better over time.
I do also find it odd that games like EQ2 and Vanguard aren't able to attract more people. I guess I'd have to place the blame on SoE. They really don't seem to push their games or know how to market them. I went in the store yesterday to preorder the new EQ2 expansion and when I walked in there was a Giant wow lich king poster, a self with a ton of preorder box art, and the entire store was shouting buy wow. I didn't see a single thing about eq2. There were a few boxes on the shelf but NOTHING at all about an expansion. I had to ask the guy at the counter and he put the order in the computer. He said they didn't have any boxes or promo stuff but they would call me when something came in.
So there my friends is why eq2 isn't doing better. The game is solid, has a lot to offer but nobody knows about it and to the common gamer they would logically conclude the game is dead.
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Ethion
I'm sure EQ2 is a great game today and I'm happy to hear they've taken care of the Customer Service mess. Unfortunately for them, I gave them two chances with two of their games and both times it ended up to be a fiasco. There won't be a third.
These days, there's games and companies out there who appreciate their customers and treat them well. I'm glad Sony has decided they can't compete with other companies unless they clean up their act.
Then you are hearing what you want to hear and not the truth. Either that or you're making things up.
Not sure what you mean by the last statement. I was complimenting the fact that it appears SoE has taken care of their CS issues. You seem to be looking for things in my post that aren't there.
Just because I state things that you don't want to hear or believe doesn't mean they're made up. There are plenty of people who experienced the same issues that I did, so I'm not alone. I joined in on this topic because I had experiences to share. Whether you like them or not is not the issue here. Don't take my negative experiences with EQ2, SWG and SOE personally. Not everyone is going to like the games you do.
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JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Why should it have more? The numbers it has is the numbers it earned.
EQ2 might have a good community now, but that wasn't my experience at launch day. Way too many selfish people.
What believe are reasons why EQ2 doesn't grow the way it could:
1. The game changes a lot (and I mean A LOT) and the AA system made early chars from accounts of people coming back pretty weak, had the same problem when coming back this summer.
2. The solo content for someone of my class (Troubadour) is pretty narrow ... I spend a lot of time doing greyed out quests as those mobs I can handle with much trouble but I'm pretty often hunted down in areas with green or blue mobs by named heroics - not so fun. As there aren't so extremly many player and they keep adding zones all the time instead of adding content to existing zones the player are stretched thinner all the time too.
3. The frequent server crashs for single zones - that is SO annoying and frustrating. As you have to zone a lot chances that you hit a crashing zone are pretty high. And than you have to wait a few minutes and if it was a time-lock zone you are screwed of course ... The zoning in itself is already not very immersive too of course.
4. Crafting grind. I'm definitelly spolied by the Vanguard system by now, there you have to think and calculate, here it mostly works to hit the same buttons all the time. Becomes old pretty soon. Not even starting on the harvesting topic, I was really in trouble when going into zones of my level as a Troubadour ... Since the guild hall introduction the harvester npc's have improved for me the most annoying feature of the crafter life very much though!
5. The heterogenous localization ... there are still so often mistakes in the translation in german, like item names in a quest different from the names ingame ... it is tiring and annoying to hunt those inconsistencies down.
Bottom line: There are several things in EQ2 I love and that makes it for me a good game to come back as I did now around 10 month ago. The events are really nice, the huge amount of quests, a lot of lore, very nice housing system (though placing books in a shelf is PAINFUL), a lot of pets and mounts, great variety in looks since the second paperdoll was introduced and a very nice leveling curve now for casual players (people with family and jobs!) as well.
So it is worth a try but the things named above and reinventing the game all the time isn't very helpful.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
*sighs* What "frequent server crashes" are you exactly talking about? I haven't seen on in almost a year and I play constantly.
I remember watching the development of this game.Played EQ1 for years and was looking forward to it.People pleaded with SOE to make solo possible.Not comparable with grouping,just possible for most classes.
SOE and the seeming majority of outspoken followers of the game said "go play a single player game if you want solo".
They may have made it easier now.I'll never find out though,one chance for a first impression and all that.
WoW released weeks later with easy solo..not sure how that turned out,anyone know which game has more players?
D&D online did the exact same thing years later.I watched in amazement as the devs,and the vocal community proclaimed "If you are online in this game,you will group,and you will like it".People have jobs and commitments,usually I have an hour to play on weeknights.40 minutes after I log on the group is formed and I'm at the dungeon...after the first pull,ok gotta go guys...
*Shrug*
Sadly the "go play a single player game" crowd is alive and well and is in full cry in the TSO beta forums..honestly what the hell the devs are thinking about with this expansion is beyond me a big overland zone for sure 150 or so quests and then nothing for the solo/duo type player..just dungoens aimed at full groups (good luck with that on some servers too) more or less a waste of an expansion in my eyes.
Of course there had to be focus on groupage with this one but not at the complete expense of other playstyles..ROK was bad but this ones worse in my eyes becuase they've repeated the mistakes but just reversed the order of them the mind boggles.
I think if you look at the Oboards the general meh-ness feeling about this expansion is evident..all other xpacs have had thousands of posts about them but there just seems to be a trickle since the NDA was lifted.
As for me this expansion is the straw that broke the camels back and i've cancelled my subscription big shame as it was a great game.