Actually if you cared about other players on the limb, you wouldn't send them to any sites, they are all biased, you would tell them to wait for a free trail as i do.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Actually if you cared about other players on the limb, you wouldn't send them to any sites, they are all biased, you would tell them to wait for a free trail as i do.
Then wait. Why not? I feel that the time is going to be very kind to this game so there is no need to "box sale."
Metacritic is the authority because it is a compilation of all the reviews for media products available on the web. It gives you a composite average score as well as user review scores.
If you want to compare the products I'd suggest multiplying critic score with the user rating to get a compound score which is a pretty precise measure of a product's quality.
Imo saying that Metacritic is biased is pretty much pointless because that would mean all reviews anywhere, both user and professional are completely unreliable so what is the point in even trying to get informed on a product? That's a bit paranoid if you ask me.. I found the compound score = pro review X user rating to be very accurate.
Lol bodypass, you are calling me a viral "publisher"? That's too rich... Oh dear... I'm wasting my time on this site instead of playing the game exactly because I feel the need to fight people like you. There is nothing wrong with liking or not liking a game but the amount of sheer misinformation you and your ilk spew on this site is really stupendous. I find it revolting that many people will pass the chance to try this great game just because they got lied in their face by rabid haters such as you. I'm entitled to my opinion like anybody else but I at least try to back it up with arguments rather than plain misinformation and misinterpretation. I will write what I think about the game because that is my prerogative. If somebody doesn't like it then go ahead and say it. Just don't try to back it up with lies because I will savage you (if I find the time that is). And besides all of this is pointless. I could be a paid marketeer just like you could or anybody else on this site. We'll (probably) never know. To all the people out on the limb I'll always suggest going to Metacritic site http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/warhammeronline?q=warhammer%20online which is the final authority regarding the reviews, both professional and user. IMO this trumps your xfire numbers or whatever other arbitrary "criterion" you pulled out of your behind as the relevant measure of WAR's quality as a MMO.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
LOL AOC got 9.4 from websites.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
Lol bodypass, you are calling me a viral "publisher"? That's too rich... Oh dear... I'm wasting my time on this site instead of playing the game exactly because I feel the need to fight people like you. There is nothing wrong with liking or not liking a game but the amount of sheer misinformation you and your ilk spew on this site is really stupendous. I find it revolting that many people will pass the chance to try this great game just because they got lied in their face by rabid haters such as you. I'm entitled to my opinion like anybody else but I at least try to back it up with arguments rather than plain misinformation and misinterpretation. I will write what I think about the game because that is my prerogative. If somebody doesn't like it then go ahead and say it. Just don't try to back it up with lies because I will savage you (if I find the time that is). And besides all of this is pointless. I could be a paid marketeer just like you could or anybody else on this site. We'll (probably) never know. To all the people out on the limb I'll always suggest going to Metacritic site http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/warhammeronline?q=warhammer%20online which is the final authority regarding the reviews, both professional and user. IMO this trumps your xfire numbers or whatever other arbitrary "criterion" you pulled out of your behind as the relevant measure of WAR's quality as a MMO.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
.. and besides Metacritic becomes truly relevant when you calculate the compound score. For example, TBC has a fantastic critic rating while user rating is rock bottom. EvE online has surprisingly low reviews but the user rating is extremely high so in the end it does even out and give you a very accurate representation.
I suppose you expect yourself to be considered a greater authority than the whole of the web put together? Paranoia AND megalomania, if you ask me.
Lol bodypass, you are calling me a viral "publisher"? That's too rich... Oh dear... I'm wasting my time on this site instead of playing the game exactly because I feel the need to fight people like you. There is nothing wrong with liking or not liking a game but the amount of sheer misinformation you and your ilk spew on this site is really stupendous. I find it revolting that many people will pass the chance to try this great game just because they got lied in their face by rabid haters such as you. I'm entitled to my opinion like anybody else but I at least try to back it up with arguments rather than plain misinformation and misinterpretation. I will write what I think about the game because that is my prerogative. If somebody doesn't like it then go ahead and say it. Just don't try to back it up with lies because I will savage you (if I find the time that is). And besides all of this is pointless. I could be a paid marketeer just like you could or anybody else on this site. We'll (probably) never know. To all the people out on the limb I'll always suggest going to Metacritic site http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/warhammeronline?q=warhammer%20online which is the final authority regarding the reviews, both professional and user. IMO this trumps your xfire numbers or whatever other arbitrary "criterion" you pulled out of your behind as the relevant measure of WAR's quality as a MMO.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Actually if you cared about other players on the limb, you wouldn't send them to any sites, they are all biased, you would tell them to wait for a free trail as i do.
Then wait. Why not? I feel that the time is going to be very kind to this game so there is no need to "box sale."
Metacritic is the authority because it is a compilation of all the reviews for media products available on the web. It gives you a composite average score as well as user review scores.
If you want to compare the products I'd suggest multiplying critic score with the user rating to get a compound score which is a pretty precise measure of a product's quality.
Imo saying that Metacritic is biased is pretty much pointless because that would mean all reviews anywhere, both user and professional are completely unreliable so what is the point in even trying to get informed on a product? That's a bit paranoid if you ask me.. I found the compound score = pro review X user rating to be very accurate.
So war has a 88 out of 100 and WoW has 93 out of 100 so what does that tell me? if i go by that site showing all these reviews it would tell me WoW is an awesome game and all the people hating on it are full of crap, same with war and its haters.
i'm not looking to bash any of these games, just tired of the BS coming from both sides, i tell people to wait for free trials because no matter what the critics say or other players, they won't know if they like it until they play it. trusting others opinions on games always leads to disaster.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Could be.
I hate WoW with a burning passion. I'm an old school gamer with a lot of it under my belt. In fact I dabble in game design and have a few boardgames tucked away ready for final polish before I start pitching them around. I'm saying this to emphasize that I do have some experience with the way game's rulesets may drastically influence players' behavior patterns and their attitude towards the game.
From my informed perspective WoW is the crack-cocaine of gaming industry. As a game it is fantastically badly designed with everything subservient to only one function - addiction formation. I really and truly despise WoW and its devs because I can see the motivation behind many of their design decisions.
You won't see me hating any other game, except AoC which got me really pissed off because of the sheer ineptness and lack of imagination in the core game design aspects of the game which could have otherwise been totally amazing.
I really love EvE though it is not the game for me. Vanguard seems ok and LOTRO may be the right thing for the more mellow PvE types. Darkfall I find really interesting and i will definitely try it out when and if it releases.... but WoW... Wow is evil - the psychology behind it is truly scary.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Could be.
I hate WoW with a burning passion. I'm an old school gamer with a lot of it under my belt. In fact I dabble in game design and have a few boardgames tucked away ready for final polish before I start pitching them around. I'm saying this to emphasize that I do have some experience with the way game's rulesets may drastically influence players' behavior patterns and their attitude towards the game.
From my informed perspective WoW is the crack-cocaine of gaming industry. As a game it is fantastically badly designed with everything subservient to only one function - addiction formation. I really and truly despise WoW and its devs because I can see the motivation behind many of their design decisions.
You won't see me hating any other game, except AoC which got me really pissed off because of the sheer ineptness and lack of imagination in the core game design aspects of the game which could have otherwise been totally amazing.
I really love EvE though it is not the game for me. Vanguard seems ok and LOTRO may be the right thing for the more mellow PvE types. Darkfall I find really interesting and i will definitely try it out when and if it releases.... but WoW... Wow is evil - the psychology behind it is truly scary.
i can agree with you on the psychology stuff, they just do something with their games to suck people in, hell i think with starcraft they nearly own everyone in korea lol...anwyays sleep time bleh.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Could be.
I hate WoW with a burning passion. I'm an old school gamer with a lot of it under my belt. In fact I dabble in game design and have a few boardgames tucked away ready for final polish before I start pitching them around. I'm saying this to emphasize that I do have some experience with the way game's rulesets may drastically influence players' behavior patterns and their attitude towards the game.
From my informed perspective WoW is the crack-cocaine of gaming industry. As a game it is fantastically badly designed with everything subservient to only one function - addiction formation. I really and truly despise WoW and its devs because I can see the motivation behind many of their design decisions.
You won't see me hating any other game, except AoC which got me really pissed off because of the sheer ineptness and lack of imagination in the core game design aspects of the game which could have otherwise been totally amazing.
I really love EvE though it is not the game for me. Vanguard seems ok and LOTRO may be the right thing for the more mellow PvE types. Darkfall I find really interesting and i will definitely try it out when and if it releases.... but WoW... Wow is evil - the psychology behind it is truly scary.
i can agree with you on the psychology stuff, they just do something with their games to suck people in, hell i think with starcraft they nearly own everyone in korea lol...anwyays sleep time bleh.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Could be.
I hate WoW with a burning passion. I'm an old school gamer with a lot of it under my belt. In fact I dabble in game design and have a few boardgames tucked away ready for final polish before I start pitching them around. I'm saying this to emphasize that I do have some experience with the way game's rulesets may drastically influence players' behavior patterns and their attitude towards the game.
From my informed perspective WoW is the crack-cocaine of gaming industry. As a game it is fantastically badly designed with everything subservient to only one function - addiction formation. I really and truly despise WoW and its devs because I can see the motivation behind many of their design decisions.
You won't see me hating any other game, except AoC which got me really pissed off because of the sheer ineptness and lack of imagination in the core game design aspects of the game which could have otherwise been totally amazing.
I really love EvE though it is not the game for me. Vanguard seems ok and LOTRO may be the right thing for the more mellow PvE types. Darkfall I find really interesting and i will definitely try it out when and if it releases.... but WoW... Wow is evil - the psychology behind it is truly scary.
i can agree with you on the psychology stuff, they just do something with their games to suck people in, hell i think with starcraft they nearly own everyone in korea lol...anwyays sleep time bleh.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Yeah, I agree, and I think most MMO vets who have been playing many of these titles over the years will recognize that. I always have a chuckle when MMO newbies complain about new games not "hooking" them like their first MMO...any addict will tell you no hit is ever as good as the first. That doesn't stop you from fiending for it anyways. Pretty sad really. As an aside, anyone interested in the pretty face of addiction should read Naked Lunch or watch Requiem for a Dream.
At least with MMOs players will eventually immunize themselves to the addictive qualities with a healthy amount of the skepticism and cynicism that only battle-hardened vets can acquire through years of disappointing, crappy games. I can turn my enjoyment of MMORPGs on and off like a faucet--no addiction required. Yes, that's probably unhealthy. Better than crack though.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance addictions.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance adictions.
Keep justifying it however you need to man. You know what they say about denial.
Fact is, plenty of non drug-related behaviors and activities can become addictive. Chief among them would be sex, for a number of reasons some of which are only partially related to physiology. There's also the emotional dependance factor. I suspect in a few more years, after more research is compiled we will see more support amongst the medical community for internet and particularly video game addiction.
How much justification such a condition would offer for anti-social and self-destructive behavior and basic personal irresponsibility is a different discussion.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance adictions.
Keep justifying it however you need to man. You know what they say about denial.
Fact is, plenty of non drug-related behaviors and activities can become addictive. Chief among them would be sex, for a number of reasons some of which are only partially related to physiology. There's also the emotional dependance factor.
There is a BIG difference between using external drugs and an emotional sickness.
And there is even a BIGGER gap between saying that playing a video game is an expression of emotional sickness.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance adictions.
Keep justifying it however you need to man. You know what they say about denial.
Fact is, plenty of non drug-related behaviors and activities can become addictive. Chief among them would be sex, for a number of reasons some of which are only partially related to physiology. There's also the emotional dependance factor.
There is a BIG difference between using external drugs and an emotional sickness.
And there is even a BIGGER gap between saying that playing a video game is an expression of emotional sickness.
I challenge you to attend an Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous meeting. Describe some of the common "symptoms" of MMO players, without specifically saying that you're talking about a game. Irrational anger or frustration when servers are down. Reduced contact with friends and family. Increased sick leave to stay home and play. See what happens, see what they have to say about it.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance adictions.
Keep justifying it however you need to man. You know what they say about denial.
Fact is, plenty of non drug-related behaviors and activities can become addictive. Chief among them would be sex, for a number of reasons some of which are only partially related to physiology. There's also the emotional dependance factor.
There is a BIG difference between using external drugs and an emotional sickness.
And there is even a BIGGER gap between saying that playing a video game is an expression of emotional sickness.
I challenge you to attend an Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous meeting. Describe some of the common "symptoms" of MMO players, without specifically saying that you're talking about a game. See what happens, see what they have to say about it.
LOL
Alcoholism is based on ... alcohol. A SUBSTANCE just a bad as nicotine or LSD.
Alcoholism is based on ... alcohol. Gaming is based on what substance ??? jesus I tought I'd seen everyhting.
LOL
Addiction takes many forms, and if your posts are any indicator I'd guess you're tightly within its grasp.
Don't believe me? Try my suggestion, I dare you. You might learn something about yourself that you didn't want to know.
Thank you.
But from your posts I can tell you are one of those guys who think that games lead to other social misbehavior like violence and school murders.
There are quite some politcal followers and doom preachers already in the world.
And all of us would be bandits and addicts that all play Wow and GTA4 of course.
No thanks I don't want to have advice from people who mismatch the real social and personal dramas of drug related topics and a hobby you pass time with.
Not even mentioning talking complete trash about a game that is just more popular than others because it's more fun to play to more people than some would wish.
Psychological addiction is a very well known medical fact, both as a part of larger substance-abuse syndrome and as a phenomenon in itself. Compulsive gambling? Porn addiction? Anyone?
In fact the only substances that are in general use that actually do have a real physiological (biological) component to their respective addictions are: nicotine, coffeine, opium derivates and alcohol. All the rest, such as marijuana, LSD , psylocibin, metamphetamine, cocaine etc DO NOT feature a physical addiction component - their addictions are all purely psychological. In fact in most cases getting rid of physical addiction is much much easier than taking care of the attendant psychological one.
Brain-washing as well as hypnosis are very powerful psychological tools whose effects can take precedent over even the most basic biological functions and instincts like the one for self-preservation.
Denying this only makes you look ignorant. Don't embarass yourselves please.
.. as for games being potentially addictive... of course they are. All the activities that are in any way pleasurable can become habit-forming and ultimately addictive. People got addicted to movies, to soap operas, to heavy metal music and rock and roll. You can get addicted to a single person and suffer real debilitating withdrawal symptoms when unable to spend time with her.
The question is if this product is actively fostering that addiction factor or not? IMO this is the real question of ethics. If product A is giving you pleasure/escape and you like to consume it regularly then all is ok...as long as it gives you the pleasure/escape you need and you are not hurting yourself by it. However if the very same product features mechanics designed to form addiction that would keep you consuming it even after you stop getting pleasure/escape or are hurting yourself with it then it is a bad bad, completely unethical dastardly thing to do.
Alcoholism is based on ... alcohol. Gaming is based on what substance ??? jesus I tought I'd seen everyhting.
LOL
Addiction takes many forms, and if your posts are any indicator I'd guess you're tightly within its grasp.
Don't believe me? Try my suggestion, I dare you. You might learn something about yourself that you didn't want to know.
Thank you.
But from your posts I can tell you are one of those guys who think that games lead to other social misbehavior like violence and school murders.
There are quite some politcal followers and doom preachers already in the world.
And all of us would be bandits and addicts that all play Wow and GTA4 of course.
No thanks I don't want to have advice from people who mismatch the real social and personal dramas of drug related topics and a hobby you pass time with.
Not even mentioning talking complete trash about a game that is just more popular than others because it's more fun to play to more people than some would wish.
No, see what you're doing here is called a strawman argument. I never said video games are the root cause of all social ills.
If you want to argue with me, argue with my actual points instead of crap you're just making up that's easier for you to poke holes in.
Lol people don't be droll. Psychological addiction is a very well known medical fact, both as a part of larger substance-abuse syndrome and as a phenomenon in itself. Compulsive gambling? Porn addiction? Anyone? In fact the only substances that are in general use that actually do have a real physiological (biological) component to their respective addictions are: nicotine, coffeine, opium derivates and alcohol. All the rest, such as marijuana, LSD , psylocibin, metamphetamine, cocaine etc DO NOT feature a physical addiction component - their addictions are all purely psychological. In fact in most cases getting rid of physical addiction is much much easier than taking care of the attendant psychological one. Brain-washing as well as hypnosis are very powerful psychological tools whose effects can take precedent over even the most basic biological functions and instincts like the one for self-preservation. Denying this only makes you look ignorant. Don't embarass yourselves please.
Yep and the only one who brought up the discussion to bash on a game was you, with a DRUG related topic as ... nicotine (cigarette smoking and Wow remember).
By the way most of the substances you mentioned ARE physical. Try read something on the subject before you post.
Or how short the distance can be between"brain-washing" and paid viral marketing of War on a forum.
I've been playing War since the headstart. I never bothered with the beta - they aren't my cup of tea.
I played WoW since pretty shortly after it came out, back when Molten Core was the highest instance, and before BG's came out. Soon after BG's came out, I quit the game because 6+ hour raids in MC were not my idea of fun. It was work, and I don't play a game to work - I have a job for that. I returned to WoW for TBC, and the extra non-raid stuff was fun for a while, but the "dumbing down" of the entire game, including most instances, destroyed the best facets of the game for me.
CHALLENGE
In that regard, both WoW and War are quite similar. Both are very dumbed-down, and lack any real challenge in the standard pve experience. It is nice, in a way, because I play at night, when few players are on TO party up with, so being able to solo is almost a necessity. At the same time, I prefer forming groups, especially your standard D'n'D makeup of tank/heals/dps. Both games are equally lacking in the ability to do this. Heck, in WoW, despite being 70, I have not even run most of the instances, because the lower level ones, people just get a 70 guildy to run them through for loot, and the higher level ones a lot of folks simply don't do anymore at all, preferring to wait for the 70 raids. In War, I often cannot complete all the pq's, because at most I might find 1 or 2 other players to attempt it with, which is fine for some, but in others, it's not even remotely possible without 6+ players.
BUGS
War does have bugs, but I find that in most cases, that is exactly what they are - bugs - which will likely get worked out in short order. Some things War calls bugs, are quite standard in WoW, such as mobs running off, out of range, and resetting. (I'm assuming in War it's a bug when they run too far and reset.) In wow, I can't fear a mob in many cases unless I can kill it fast, or intentionally break the fear, because a LOT of the time the fear makes the mob run too far, and reset. And that's a class ability we're talking about. In War, it's an AI issue, not a class ability that simply doesn't work.
EXPLORATION
War has many secret things, which is a HUGE plus for me. I'm an avid explorer, and it's nice for once to have a game that rewards that exploration. I was quite stoked when I swam down a river in a certain area( not gonna spoil it ~too~ much), found an odd hollow log that I could walk up to an otherwise unreachable plateau through, then from up there, saw how some tree trunks were just close enough and strangely enough placed that I was virtually forced to try jumping across them (and did), and voila! A "hidden" lair with a "secret" boss. Very cool. I bet most people don't find that on their own. In WoW....the only thing you might find through exploring, is a rare mob, which might not even be spawned when you happen by there. And that's not overly common.
STRATEGY
I find both games almost equal for the button mashing to kill trash mobs. I have not yet run high level dungeon content in War, but I will grant that WoW did a good job of making their high end instance bosses require strategy. I can only hope that War did as well. I'm hoping however, that in higher level War, I won't be forced to grind for hours through a boring bunch of elites to get to the cool parts, as in WoW.
WORK OR PLAY?
A friend of mine plays Wow, and tried War. War wasn't for him. But he went back to WoW because he "only has to log on for a few hours on Wednesdays to raid with the guild, to try for the loot (he) wants to have before WotLK comes out". That's to say, if he didn't already have a 70, and wasn't trying to gear it out (which he doesn't find at all fun anymore - too much like work), then he'd not be playing WoW either. He's just praying that WotLK has something interesting enough to make him enjoy the game again.
For me, I refuse to play a game for that reason, so for now, I'm done with WoW, and will not be rushing out to buy Wrath with the hopes it'll be the fix to fulfill my craving for a while. War keeps me having fun, without any sort of addiction to it, mostly because of the little details like hidden lairs and such, and most especially because I like their take on the classes much better than I like WoW's.
QUESTS
And quests - well, really, I find that they are almost always the same in almost every game of this sort. What I like about War quests, is that I don't have to kill 200 hounds which mysteriously seem to have no blood, in order to get 5 blood samples. WoW quests tend towards complete absurdity, where War quests make a lot more sense, and thus remove a lot of the annoying-grind-feel that WoW has. Some War quests I find much more interesting, like the one I just did in Salzemund(sp?), to try and convince a priest that the leader of the town militia is a heretic and should be dealt with. It wasn't perfect, but it was more entertaining than "go kill bats and recover 3 ears. You might have to kill a few hundred though, because this is a special type of earless bat". Yeah.
LOOT & PQ's
The current loot system for pq's is very much not to my liking. I think the way they handle rolls is excellent, that's not my concern. My issue is that the blue, purple, and gold (gold has armor set-pieces in it) bags are FAR FAR too rare. I've tried a great many characters, and I cannot even try to guess how many pq's I have done, despite the many I haven't been able to finish due to lack of people, and in all that time, I've seen 3 blue bags, 2 purples, and 3 gold. And of those, I've personally gotten 1 gold, and 1 blue. I also think that everyone who participates in a pq should at least get a white bag, and that there should be some sort of reward other than a stupid title for top participation. Not necessarily the best prize mind you - that'd never work in a pq because often, the highest level player would end up with that by default. But something. Maybe a special loot item specifically for the top participant, or a big bonus to influence, or a 30 minute buff appropriate to the class.
CONCLUSION
Honestly, as I preach the fun parts of War, if WoW hadn't completely changed their philosophy, dumbing down everything in the game, and tossing any and all considerations for balance out a 20-storey window, I might still have a lot more fun in WoW. Excepting of course the ridiculous work-like grind of faction rep and high level raiding. If War fixes some of the biggest drawbacks it has (in my opinion), I might change my mind on that thought. Player spread, loot, and LAG being the biggest drawbacks to War right now, for me. (I can hang out in Shattrath with little to no lag even on a weekend, yet I get HUGE lag from War even overnight when barely anyone is on, with the gfx set to minimum except for resolution.) SO my personal preference for War over WoW is currently based on WoW's greater failings, than any sort of amazing game play enhancements or such that War has done. I'd really almost rather be playing Neverwinter Nights on a persistant world, if a massive multiplayer one could be found. Alas, the ones I've tried all had too-great of flaws of their own, primary being the lack of players even on the full ones.
Geez - this post could be it's own thread altogether almost. Sorry.
Lol people don't be droll. Psychological addiction is a very well known medical fact, both as a part of larger substance-abuse syndrome and as a phenomenon in itself. Compulsive gambling? Porn addiction? Anyone? In fact the only substances that are in general use that actually do have a real physiological (biological) component to their respective addictions are: nicotine, coffeine, opium derivates and alcohol. All the rest, such as marijuana, LSD , psylocibin, metamphetamine, cocaine etc DO NOT feature a physical addiction component - their addictions are all purely psychological. In fact in most cases getting rid of physical addiction is much much easier than taking care of the attendant psychological one. Brain-washing as well as hypnosis are very powerful psychological tools whose effects can take precedent over even the most basic biological functions and instincts like the one for self-preservation. Denying this only makes you look ignorant. Don't embarass yourselves please.
Yep and the only one who brought up the discussion to bash on a game was you, with a DRUG related topic as ... nicotine (cigarette smoking and Wow remember).
By the way most of the substances you mentioned ARE physical. Try read something on the subject before you post.
Or how short the distance can be between"brain-washing" and paid viral marketing of War on a forum.
At least I don't compare a game with a drug.
Phew man, you should read up on the subject. It is a common misconception that those substances are physically habit-forming while in actuality absolutely no evidence has been found to support that claim.
Imo this is due to typical western view that human psychology is largely irrelevant to the physical well-being. Saying "oh it's just psychological" is tantamount to saying "oh it's just some money problems" when you and your family become homeless due to market meltdown.
As for comparing games with drugs.. well I consider them a part of the same human sphere with a very similar function.
I'll refer you to the excellent "Homo Ludens" (Man the Player) by Johan Huizinga for fantastic historical analysis of the role and impact of games in human history. It is a true and well-recognized classic eminently worth reading by any student of human nature. Mind you the book's been written way before the current gaming craze took off (I'd place that date in 1974 to be precise and before that the last one was during fin-de-siecle with middle class ascendant and bored). I recommend it to any gamer interested in underlying social and psychological aspects of gaming in general.
Most people complain about the Pve because they came from WoW and are used to 30 dungeons with full loot tables that can be farmed and a progressive raid game. They don't consider quests and non-instanced dungeons with bad loot PVE content.
This is one of the things that irks me the most about many off-hand "reviews" on this site - it is almost taken as a given that WAR somehow has a "gimped" PvE that is somehow an "afterthought". Personally I find this ridiculous. For me in this regard WAR's PvE is so incredibly ahead of other games that I played (though I admit I am more of a PvP man) that it is almost insane. Are those people playing some other game? Anyway, in order not to clog the thread I will simply list the features of WAR PvE that I find truly amazing, if not revolutionary. 1. Vast amounts of solo quests. Three pairings, each being a campaign on its own. While xp gain from soloing does taper off in the beginning of tier 3, you actually can play WAR 6 times without ever seeing the same quest or scenery again. In essence this is like 6 "normal" single player RPGs in one. 2. Solo quests can get amazingly varied. Yes, that is true. For those who played a few tutorial quests in T1 and decided that kill 10 of x is all you'll ever get then I have to say you are missing a lot. I won't give examples of some great solo quests here because it would take too long but they are there. 2b. Quest item drops from mobs are all 100%. This is such a small thing but it is amazing how much grief and frustration it takes away from solo questing. 3. Public Quests. Yes, public quests are PvE. You can solo them for influence, you can pug them, you can do them with a leet band of friends, you can zerg them in succession with a warband, you can hunt down the rare "epic" ones with amazing loot... In fact if the game was only about the PQs it would be well worth the money. While (most) of them do have 3 stages it doesn't mean they're all the same by far... I personally love the one in elven tier 2 where you advance with 20+ mob allies against wave after wave of enemy monsters... or the dwarf/greenskin ones where it is a race which side will complete the stage the fastest with all the attendant RvR and sneaky sabotage... or "mob race" PQ stages where you have to prevent bands of roaming champion mobs from accomplishing their tasks - totally hectic . 4. Exploration and lairs. Whoever isn't aware of those must have been grinding scenarios from rank 1 and is now pissed off because the game has no "freedom". Well take your freedom man! Get out of that scenario and head out into the hills! You might get really surprised by what you'll find there... a desecrated abandoned shrine with an ancient book carelessly tossed into a corner - open it and you might find yourself on an epic quest chain leading you to exclusive rewards and better knowledge of the lore. 5. Dungeons. Many people are completely unaware that there are dungeons in Altdorf starting at rank 10 that you can do to improve the city's ranking.. While they start simplistic (hey, they are starter dungeons) they do get progressively more complex and challenging. While the boss drops are really pathetic, those dungeons are quite sufficient to assuage your instanced PvE hunger pangs. When Mythic gets down to looking into those boss item drops they'll be a viable way to advance your character. 6. Dungeons again. Have you been to mt Gunbad yet? All I can say is that it beats any old WoW dungeon hands down. It is open and setup similar to open world PvE chapters. You get PQs, influence and all but the catch is that the top bosses themselves are instanced and you can get to them only in 6-mans. Simply marvelous - both casual and hardcore at the same time, seamlessly. 7. Policy towards grouping. No, in most cases you are not forced to group in order to access content. Is it a bad thing? NO! You're not forced to group with random people you don't like just in order to see content. You can start on your own and then gradually gather a band that works together to tackle some of the more demanding stuff. No standing in a quest hub and screaming LFG for 2 hours... Now you spend those 2 hours actually playing while the group forms around you. 8. Lore. A lot of lore. Vast amounts of lore. Log in and start reading your TOK. The amount of text and information contained in it is truly stupendous. To those complaining that it is enough just to read the quest summary I'm replying "Do you really need to be forced to do the things you enjoy? Just read the fluff text if you like it." And besides the "fluff" text sometimes holds valuable clues for exploration part of the game. 9. Quest marks on the map. Amazing. Sorry but browsing through my quest log trying to deduce where the heck am I supposed to be doing this quest is not my idea of fun, by far. Sometimes when I'm bored I just open my map and look where's the nearest quest I can do.. and sometimes I travel to other parts of the map because I want to do this particular quest. Freedom and choice. As for those saying that it is "easy mode" or "lore breaking" then just say your character has a real map with him and whenever he is asked to perform some task he asks the quest giver to mark where it is on the said map. It is more immersion breaking for me that my character would be that stupid to go adventuring in the wilderness and NOT ask "please could you mark it for me on this handy map?" So all in all I find PvE in WAR awesome. Not "ok" not "well there are better games out there for that" but simply awesome. In fact I wish Mythic implemented some of those very advanced ideas and mechanics into the open RvR part of the game. Patch 1.1 gives some hope that they do plan to do so with introduction of RvR influence.. whether this entails PQs in RvR lakes as well as keeps as quest hubs we'll see.
/addendum from a later post, but it should be here Ok, now that I've gotten it off my chest how awesome WAR PvE is, to be fair I have to list the complaints (yes, even a fanboi can have some). 1. Buggines. Fair is fair, there are some bugs and lack of polish. Nothing game-breaking for me though and they are quite rare considering how fresh the game is. However I must say I haven't seen a game-breaking bug yet. 2. Visible lack of polish on some later tier open PvE content... I'm talking about quest sites where mobs are just standing there - no patrols, no interesting animations or npc chatter... even the aggro radius is so pitiably small that the whole encounter looks like a placeholder "to be fleshed out later". However other quests in the very same region/tier, usually just a minutes' walk away, are amazingly well polished and interestingly scripted. I guess time will polish those "orphan" quests as well and there isn't many of them tbh... maybe like 5% of later encounters (I did pull that one out of my behind). 3. Itemization on boss mobs outside of PQs and big dungeons is really lame. You kill the boss mob at the end of the first Altdorf sewer dungeon and get a few random greens.. if you're very lucky, otherwise its some gray vendor trash. They should seriously look into this. Imo all rare / boss mobs should have some particular / exclusive reward attached, if only a title unlock or a weird "pocket" item. 4. Solo PvE mob difficulty is not really well scaled to particular quests. For example, a "kill x" quest may involve killing a mob at a time... or those mobs may be patrolling around with 2 of their buddies looking after them. So.. obviously mobs that are solo should be much tougher than those that are grouped. At the moment those solo mobs are too easy to tackle. That's all I could think of atm. Hmm. I'll add to this If I remember something that I missed.
Comments
Actually if you cared about other players on the limb, you wouldn't send them to any sites, they are all biased, you would tell them to wait for a free trail as i do.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Then wait. Why not? I feel that the time is going to be very kind to this game so there is no need to "box sale."
Metacritic is the authority because it is a compilation of all the reviews for media products available on the web. It gives you a composite average score as well as user review scores.
If you want to compare the products I'd suggest multiplying critic score with the user rating to get a compound score which is a pretty precise measure of a product's quality.
Imo saying that Metacritic is biased is pretty much pointless because that would mean all reviews anywhere, both user and professional are completely unreliable so what is the point in even trying to get informed on a product? That's a bit paranoid if you ask me.. I found the compound score = pro review X user rating to be very accurate.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
LOL AOC got 9.4 from websites.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
.. and besides Metacritic becomes truly relevant when you calculate the compound score. For example, TBC has a fantastic critic rating while user rating is rock bottom. EvE online has surprisingly low reviews but the user rating is extremely high so in the end it does even out and give you a very accurate representation.
I suppose you expect yourself to be considered a greater authority than the whole of the web put together? Paranoia AND megalomania, if you ask me.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Then wait. Why not? I feel that the time is going to be very kind to this game so there is no need to "box sale."
Metacritic is the authority because it is a compilation of all the reviews for media products available on the web. It gives you a composite average score as well as user review scores.
If you want to compare the products I'd suggest multiplying critic score with the user rating to get a compound score which is a pretty precise measure of a product's quality.
Imo saying that Metacritic is biased is pretty much pointless because that would mean all reviews anywhere, both user and professional are completely unreliable so what is the point in even trying to get informed on a product? That's a bit paranoid if you ask me.. I found the compound score = pro review X user rating to be very accurate.
So war has a 88 out of 100 and WoW has 93 out of 100 so what does that tell me? if i go by that site showing all these reviews it would tell me WoW is an awesome game and all the people hating on it are full of crap, same with war and its haters.
i'm not looking to bash any of these games, just tired of the BS coming from both sides, i tell people to wait for free trials because no matter what the critics say or other players, they won't know if they like it until they play it. trusting others opinions on games always leads to disaster.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Could be.
I hate WoW with a burning passion. I'm an old school gamer with a lot of it under my belt. In fact I dabble in game design and have a few boardgames tucked away ready for final polish before I start pitching them around. I'm saying this to emphasize that I do have some experience with the way game's rulesets may drastically influence players' behavior patterns and their attitude towards the game.
From my informed perspective WoW is the crack-cocaine of gaming industry. As a game it is fantastically badly designed with everything subservient to only one function - addiction formation. I really and truly despise WoW and its devs because I can see the motivation behind many of their design decisions.
You won't see me hating any other game, except AoC which got me really pissed off because of the sheer ineptness and lack of imagination in the core game design aspects of the game which could have otherwise been totally amazing.
I really love EvE though it is not the game for me. Vanguard seems ok and LOTRO may be the right thing for the more mellow PvE types. Darkfall I find really interesting and i will definitely try it out when and if it releases.... but WoW... Wow is evil - the psychology behind it is truly scary.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Could be.
I hate WoW with a burning passion. I'm an old school gamer with a lot of it under my belt. In fact I dabble in game design and have a few boardgames tucked away ready for final polish before I start pitching them around. I'm saying this to emphasize that I do have some experience with the way game's rulesets may drastically influence players' behavior patterns and their attitude towards the game.
From my informed perspective WoW is the crack-cocaine of gaming industry. As a game it is fantastically badly designed with everything subservient to only one function - addiction formation. I really and truly despise WoW and its devs because I can see the motivation behind many of their design decisions.
You won't see me hating any other game, except AoC which got me really pissed off because of the sheer ineptness and lack of imagination in the core game design aspects of the game which could have otherwise been totally amazing.
I really love EvE though it is not the game for me. Vanguard seems ok and LOTRO may be the right thing for the more mellow PvE types. Darkfall I find really interesting and i will definitely try it out when and if it releases.... but WoW... Wow is evil - the psychology behind it is truly scary.
i can agree with you on the psychology stuff, they just do something with their games to suck people in, hell i think with starcraft they nearly own everyone in korea lol...anwyays sleep time bleh.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Could be.
I hate WoW with a burning passion. I'm an old school gamer with a lot of it under my belt. In fact I dabble in game design and have a few boardgames tucked away ready for final polish before I start pitching them around. I'm saying this to emphasize that I do have some experience with the way game's rulesets may drastically influence players' behavior patterns and their attitude towards the game.
From my informed perspective WoW is the crack-cocaine of gaming industry. As a game it is fantastically badly designed with everything subservient to only one function - addiction formation. I really and truly despise WoW and its devs because I can see the motivation behind many of their design decisions.
You won't see me hating any other game, except AoC which got me really pissed off because of the sheer ineptness and lack of imagination in the core game design aspects of the game which could have otherwise been totally amazing.
I really love EvE though it is not the game for me. Vanguard seems ok and LOTRO may be the right thing for the more mellow PvE types. Darkfall I find really interesting and i will definitely try it out when and if it releases.... but WoW... Wow is evil - the psychology behind it is truly scary.
i can agree with you on the psychology stuff, they just do something with their games to suck people in, hell i think with starcraft they nearly own everyone in korea lol...anwyays sleep time bleh.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
I knew you would come up with that. It's all that's left at the moment.
"I invite all people to look at...". At what ? For what? To convince people that commercial sponsored websites praise the EA games after playing it for one week.
Why do you invite people anyway?
Like I said the game is out, hype was at launch.
A game sells itself after the initial month. And it's not looking good in sales for a "lure in" and "bored of" game isn't it.
Oh it will be the fault of guys like me who bashed it on the forums. Just as if this forum means anything.
I registred to warhammeralliances 15 months ago, I am a fanatic WH TT player (being one of the best TT rules btw). I ordered the CE edition of War 6 months before launch and played it with astonishment.
I knew it at level 6 and managed to go to level 14 and Tier 2: what an idea of making a MMO these days. It dawned on me after the first day and then I got angry: I saw the techniques behind it and the strategy.
How bad a game design can be - based on boredom of MMORPG players and limited funds.
So sad really, that's why I publish and that's why I still can't believe people are still believing in such a product. A product based on the boredom of other games. ....wow... just wow.
You said it all there mate, you said it all.
Indeed, because that's the exact target audiance of your viral pushing of WAR.
Could be.
I hate WoW with a burning passion. I'm an old school gamer with a lot of it under my belt. In fact I dabble in game design and have a few boardgames tucked away ready for final polish before I start pitching them around. I'm saying this to emphasize that I do have some experience with the way game's rulesets may drastically influence players' behavior patterns and their attitude towards the game.
From my informed perspective WoW is the crack-cocaine of gaming industry. As a game it is fantastically badly designed with everything subservient to only one function - addiction formation. I really and truly despise WoW and its devs because I can see the motivation behind many of their design decisions.
You won't see me hating any other game, except AoC which got me really pissed off because of the sheer ineptness and lack of imagination in the core game design aspects of the game which could have otherwise been totally amazing.
I really love EvE though it is not the game for me. Vanguard seems ok and LOTRO may be the right thing for the more mellow PvE types. Darkfall I find really interesting and i will definitely try it out when and if it releases.... but WoW... Wow is evil - the psychology behind it is truly scary.
i can agree with you on the psychology stuff, they just do something with their games to suck people in, hell i think with starcraft they nearly own everyone in korea lol...anwyays sleep time bleh.
It's pretty simple really. Behavior and reward. Tickle that endorphin factory in a person's head and you'll have an instant addict. Ethical? You decide.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Yeah, I agree, and I think most MMO vets who have been playing many of these titles over the years will recognize that. I always have a chuckle when MMO newbies complain about new games not "hooking" them like their first MMO...any addict will tell you no hit is ever as good as the first. That doesn't stop you from fiending for it anyways. Pretty sad really. As an aside, anyone interested in the pretty face of addiction should read Naked Lunch or watch Requiem for a Dream.
At least with MMOs players will eventually immunize themselves to the addictive qualities with a healthy amount of the skepticism and cynicism that only battle-hardened vets can acquire through years of disappointing, crappy games. I can turn my enjoyment of MMORPGs on and off like a faucet--no addiction required. Yes, that's probably unhealthy. Better than crack though.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance addictions.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance adictions.
Keep justifying it however you need to man. You know what they say about denial.
Fact is, plenty of non drug-related behaviors and activities can become addictive. Chief among them would be sex, for a number of reasons some of which are only partially related to physiology. There's also the emotional dependance factor. I suspect in a few more years, after more research is compiled we will see more support amongst the medical community for internet and particularly video game addiction.
How much justification such a condition would offer for anti-social and self-destructive behavior and basic personal irresponsibility is a different discussion.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance adictions.
Keep justifying it however you need to man. You know what they say about denial.
Fact is, plenty of non drug-related behaviors and activities can become addictive. Chief among them would be sex, for a number of reasons some of which are only partially related to physiology. There's also the emotional dependance factor.
There is a BIG difference between using external drugs and an emotional sickness.
And there is even a BIGGER gap between saying that playing a video game is an expression of emotional sickness.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance adictions.
Keep justifying it however you need to man. You know what they say about denial.
Fact is, plenty of non drug-related behaviors and activities can become addictive. Chief among them would be sex, for a number of reasons some of which are only partially related to physiology. There's also the emotional dependance factor.
There is a BIG difference between using external drugs and an emotional sickness.
And there is even a BIGGER gap between saying that playing a video game is an expression of emotional sickness.
I challenge you to attend an Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous meeting. Describe some of the common "symptoms" of MMO players, without specifically saying that you're talking about a game. Irrational anger or frustration when servers are down. Reduced contact with friends and family. Increased sick leave to stay home and play. See what happens, see what they have to say about it.
That's exactly why I gave the crack-cocaine simile. There are drugs and then there are drugs. Both crack and fine red wine are drugs - they both tickle your glands and give you a buzz. The difference is that fine red wine is for keeps giving you the same pleasure no matter how long in your life you've been drinking it while crack burns out very fast and leaves only lethal addiction in its wake. You can say the same about cigarettes - once you start smoking you enjoy them but later on you don't get anything but relief from withdrawal symptoms. The tradeoff becomes very unfair.
WoW is a similar drug in that regard. After a while you do get bored with it, because it frankly doesn't have that much to offer in comparison with other games out there, but you keep playing out of sheer addiction. I know many people who do not derive any real pleasure from it whatsover but keep playing out of habit, a form of light brain-washing I'd say. In that regard it is a very unfair "drug". (and lets face it, computer games are taking a place in our social sphere that was previously reserved exclusively for chemical substances).
Interesting twist. What crap !
There is only ONE problem. And the complete medical world agree on this !
Addiction and drugs can't be applied to gaming or sports or other acitivities, where there is no extra physical substance involved. All drug specialists agree on that .
People say "I am addicted to watching football matches (4 per day for example) or I play Wow for 6 hours a day, so I am addicted.
Wrong. Addiction can only come from physical dependance of products. Like nicotine or heroine or LSD.
IN fact : with REAL drugs your body becomes addicted to the stuff.
In extreme cases of playing games or watching television or whatever social activity : these physical dependant addictions are NOT present. On the contrary: by doing TOO much gaming you can have physical complaints (like tennis elbow or wrists), so the addiciton of a vidoe game is in NO way a "drug".
It's a scandal people compare the use of drugs with an activity of doing sports or gaming. The body becomes dependant of real drugs.
Any person can live without the need of watching a football match or gaming a computer game. ;;; But none can kick-off a product drug based addiction.
Even comparing these things with the playing of any video game is an insult to the people suffering from real substance adictions.
Keep justifying it however you need to man. You know what they say about denial.
Fact is, plenty of non drug-related behaviors and activities can become addictive. Chief among them would be sex, for a number of reasons some of which are only partially related to physiology. There's also the emotional dependance factor.
There is a BIG difference between using external drugs and an emotional sickness.
And there is even a BIGGER gap between saying that playing a video game is an expression of emotional sickness.
I challenge you to attend an Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous meeting. Describe some of the common "symptoms" of MMO players, without specifically saying that you're talking about a game. See what happens, see what they have to say about it.
LOL
Alcoholism is based on ... alcohol. A SUBSTANCE just a bad as nicotine or LSD.
Gaming is based on what substance ???
jesus I tought I'd seen everyhting.
Addiction takes many forms, and if your posts are any indicator I'd guess you're tightly within its grasp.
Don't believe me? Try my suggestion, I dare you. You might learn something about yourself that you didn't want to know.
Addiction takes many forms, and if your posts are any indicator I'd guess you're tightly within its grasp.
Don't believe me? Try my suggestion, I dare you. You might learn something about yourself that you didn't want to know.
Thank you.
But from your posts I can tell you are one of those guys who think that games lead to other social misbehavior like violence and school murders.
There are quite some politcal followers and doom preachers already in the world.
And all of us would be bandits and addicts that all play Wow and GTA4 of course.
No thanks I don't want to have advice from people who mismatch the real social and personal dramas of drug related topics and a hobby you pass time with.
Not even mentioning talking complete trash about a game that is just more popular than others because it's more fun to play to more people than some would wish.
Lol people don't be droll.
Psychological addiction is a very well known medical fact, both as a part of larger substance-abuse syndrome and as a phenomenon in itself. Compulsive gambling? Porn addiction? Anyone?
In fact the only substances that are in general use that actually do have a real physiological (biological) component to their respective addictions are: nicotine, coffeine, opium derivates and alcohol. All the rest, such as marijuana, LSD , psylocibin, metamphetamine, cocaine etc DO NOT feature a physical addiction component - their addictions are all purely psychological. In fact in most cases getting rid of physical addiction is much much easier than taking care of the attendant psychological one.
Brain-washing as well as hypnosis are very powerful psychological tools whose effects can take precedent over even the most basic biological functions and instincts like the one for self-preservation.
Denying this only makes you look ignorant. Don't embarass yourselves please.
.. as for games being potentially addictive... of course they are. All the activities that are in any way pleasurable can become habit-forming and ultimately addictive. People got addicted to movies, to soap operas, to heavy metal music and rock and roll. You can get addicted to a single person and suffer real debilitating withdrawal symptoms when unable to spend time with her.
The question is if this product is actively fostering that addiction factor or not? IMO this is the real question of ethics. If product A is giving you pleasure/escape and you like to consume it regularly then all is ok...as long as it gives you the pleasure/escape you need and you are not hurting yourself by it. However if the very same product features mechanics designed to form addiction that would keep you consuming it even after you stop getting pleasure/escape or are hurting yourself with it then it is a bad bad, completely unethical dastardly thing to do.
Addiction takes many forms, and if your posts are any indicator I'd guess you're tightly within its grasp.
Don't believe me? Try my suggestion, I dare you. You might learn something about yourself that you didn't want to know.
Thank you.
But from your posts I can tell you are one of those guys who think that games lead to other social misbehavior like violence and school murders.
There are quite some politcal followers and doom preachers already in the world.
And all of us would be bandits and addicts that all play Wow and GTA4 of course.
No thanks I don't want to have advice from people who mismatch the real social and personal dramas of drug related topics and a hobby you pass time with.
Not even mentioning talking complete trash about a game that is just more popular than others because it's more fun to play to more people than some would wish.
No, see what you're doing here is called a strawman argument. I never said video games are the root cause of all social ills.
If you want to argue with me, argue with my actual points instead of crap you're just making up that's easier for you to poke holes in.
Yep and the only one who brought up the discussion to bash on a game was you, with a DRUG related topic as ... nicotine (cigarette smoking and Wow remember).
By the way most of the substances you mentioned ARE physical. Try read something on the subject before you post.
Or how short the distance can be between"brain-washing" and paid viral marketing of War on a forum.
At least I don't compare a game with a drug.
I've been playing War since the headstart. I never bothered with the beta - they aren't my cup of tea.
I played WoW since pretty shortly after it came out, back when Molten Core was the highest instance, and before BG's came out. Soon after BG's came out, I quit the game because 6+ hour raids in MC were not my idea of fun. It was work, and I don't play a game to work - I have a job for that. I returned to WoW for TBC, and the extra non-raid stuff was fun for a while, but the "dumbing down" of the entire game, including most instances, destroyed the best facets of the game for me.
CHALLENGE
In that regard, both WoW and War are quite similar. Both are very dumbed-down, and lack any real challenge in the standard pve experience. It is nice, in a way, because I play at night, when few players are on TO party up with, so being able to solo is almost a necessity. At the same time, I prefer forming groups, especially your standard D'n'D makeup of tank/heals/dps. Both games are equally lacking in the ability to do this. Heck, in WoW, despite being 70, I have not even run most of the instances, because the lower level ones, people just get a 70 guildy to run them through for loot, and the higher level ones a lot of folks simply don't do anymore at all, preferring to wait for the 70 raids. In War, I often cannot complete all the pq's, because at most I might find 1 or 2 other players to attempt it with, which is fine for some, but in others, it's not even remotely possible without 6+ players.
BUGS
War does have bugs, but I find that in most cases, that is exactly what they are - bugs - which will likely get worked out in short order. Some things War calls bugs, are quite standard in WoW, such as mobs running off, out of range, and resetting. (I'm assuming in War it's a bug when they run too far and reset.) In wow, I can't fear a mob in many cases unless I can kill it fast, or intentionally break the fear, because a LOT of the time the fear makes the mob run too far, and reset. And that's a class ability we're talking about. In War, it's an AI issue, not a class ability that simply doesn't work.
EXPLORATION
War has many secret things, which is a HUGE plus for me. I'm an avid explorer, and it's nice for once to have a game that rewards that exploration. I was quite stoked when I swam down a river in a certain area( not gonna spoil it ~too~ much), found an odd hollow log that I could walk up to an otherwise unreachable plateau through, then from up there, saw how some tree trunks were just close enough and strangely enough placed that I was virtually forced to try jumping across them (and did), and voila! A "hidden" lair with a "secret" boss. Very cool. I bet most people don't find that on their own. In WoW....the only thing you might find through exploring, is a rare mob, which might not even be spawned when you happen by there. And that's not overly common.
STRATEGY
I find both games almost equal for the button mashing to kill trash mobs. I have not yet run high level dungeon content in War, but I will grant that WoW did a good job of making their high end instance bosses require strategy. I can only hope that War did as well. I'm hoping however, that in higher level War, I won't be forced to grind for hours through a boring bunch of elites to get to the cool parts, as in WoW.
WORK OR PLAY?
A friend of mine plays Wow, and tried War. War wasn't for him. But he went back to WoW because he "only has to log on for a few hours on Wednesdays to raid with the guild, to try for the loot (he) wants to have before WotLK comes out". That's to say, if he didn't already have a 70, and wasn't trying to gear it out (which he doesn't find at all fun anymore - too much like work), then he'd not be playing WoW either. He's just praying that WotLK has something interesting enough to make him enjoy the game again.
For me, I refuse to play a game for that reason, so for now, I'm done with WoW, and will not be rushing out to buy Wrath with the hopes it'll be the fix to fulfill my craving for a while. War keeps me having fun, without any sort of addiction to it, mostly because of the little details like hidden lairs and such, and most especially because I like their take on the classes much better than I like WoW's.
QUESTS
And quests - well, really, I find that they are almost always the same in almost every game of this sort. What I like about War quests, is that I don't have to kill 200 hounds which mysteriously seem to have no blood, in order to get 5 blood samples. WoW quests tend towards complete absurdity, where War quests make a lot more sense, and thus remove a lot of the annoying-grind-feel that WoW has. Some War quests I find much more interesting, like the one I just did in Salzemund(sp?), to try and convince a priest that the leader of the town militia is a heretic and should be dealt with. It wasn't perfect, but it was more entertaining than "go kill bats and recover 3 ears. You might have to kill a few hundred though, because this is a special type of earless bat". Yeah.
LOOT & PQ's
The current loot system for pq's is very much not to my liking. I think the way they handle rolls is excellent, that's not my concern. My issue is that the blue, purple, and gold (gold has armor set-pieces in it) bags are FAR FAR too rare. I've tried a great many characters, and I cannot even try to guess how many pq's I have done, despite the many I haven't been able to finish due to lack of people, and in all that time, I've seen 3 blue bags, 2 purples, and 3 gold. And of those, I've personally gotten 1 gold, and 1 blue. I also think that everyone who participates in a pq should at least get a white bag, and that there should be some sort of reward other than a stupid title for top participation. Not necessarily the best prize mind you - that'd never work in a pq because often, the highest level player would end up with that by default. But something. Maybe a special loot item specifically for the top participant, or a big bonus to influence, or a 30 minute buff appropriate to the class.
CONCLUSION
Honestly, as I preach the fun parts of War, if WoW hadn't completely changed their philosophy, dumbing down everything in the game, and tossing any and all considerations for balance out a 20-storey window, I might still have a lot more fun in WoW. Excepting of course the ridiculous work-like grind of faction rep and high level raiding. If War fixes some of the biggest drawbacks it has (in my opinion), I might change my mind on that thought. Player spread, loot, and LAG being the biggest drawbacks to War right now, for me. (I can hang out in Shattrath with little to no lag even on a weekend, yet I get HUGE lag from War even overnight when barely anyone is on, with the gfx set to minimum except for resolution.) SO my personal preference for War over WoW is currently based on WoW's greater failings, than any sort of amazing game play enhancements or such that War has done. I'd really almost rather be playing Neverwinter Nights on a persistant world, if a massive multiplayer one could be found. Alas, the ones I've tried all had too-great of flaws of their own, primary being the lack of players even on the full ones.
Geez - this post could be it's own thread altogether almost. Sorry.
Yep and the only one who brought up the discussion to bash on a game was you, with a DRUG related topic as ... nicotine (cigarette smoking and Wow remember).
By the way most of the substances you mentioned ARE physical. Try read something on the subject before you post.
Or how short the distance can be between"brain-washing" and paid viral marketing of War on a forum.
At least I don't compare a game with a drug.
Phew man, you should read up on the subject. It is a common misconception that those substances are physically habit-forming while in actuality absolutely no evidence has been found to support that claim.
Imo this is due to typical western view that human psychology is largely irrelevant to the physical well-being. Saying "oh it's just psychological" is tantamount to saying "oh it's just some money problems" when you and your family become homeless due to market meltdown.
As for comparing games with drugs.. well I consider them a part of the same human sphere with a very similar function.
I'll refer you to the excellent "Homo Ludens" (Man the Player) by Johan Huizinga for fantastic historical analysis of the role and impact of games in human history. It is a true and well-recognized classic eminently worth reading by any student of human nature. Mind you the book's been written way before the current gaming craze took off (I'd place that date in 1974 to be precise and before that the last one was during fin-de-siecle with middle class ascendant and bored). I recommend it to any gamer interested in underlying social and psychological aspects of gaming in general.
Most people complain about the Pve because they came from WoW and are used to 30 dungeons with full loot tables that can be farmed and a progressive raid game. They don't consider quests and non-instanced dungeons with bad loot PVE content.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
What he said. Everything he said is true.