You know you should have put the origiinal SWG in there. It was probably the most innovative MMORPG to ever to hit the shelf. I don't see anything innovative about AoC. The combat is just a simple tierd system, LoTRO does the same thing just instead of hitting the buttons real fast like AoC you let each ability fire off before going to the next. I used G11 keyboard macros in AoC for the combos. Can't do that in very easy in LoTRO because of the timers and different mobs react better to different attack styles.. To me AoC was just a simplified WoW with prettier graphics and less freedom of movement
Wait, in lotro and wow you can use positioning, semi real-time attacks, active dodging and blocking, directional attacks and first person targeting (bow)? Sorry to anyone who's a naysayer but none of these things have been apart of any combat system I've played in an MMO. Some of them have been used singlely in an MMO, not all together in one system.
SWG: yes it's by far the most innovative MMO available, however it didn't release post WOW.
AOC is the only MMO since wow released that has broken away from the mainstream questing formula. I'm not referring to what you do on a quest, I'm referring to the way quests are presented. They at least attempted to add a little bit of life to the characters you interact with. They've tried merging the experience you get from a single player RPG, with MMO game mechanics. They partially succeeded IMO.
Compared to WOW I don't find many similarities in AOC.The gameplay is different, the combat is different, the motivation is different, the world layout is different and the lore is different.
Warhammer is more like WOW, even there you can point out a whole bunch of differences. The most comparable game on that list to wow would be lotro, which shows in only 7% thinking it divereged from the WOW formula.
Both AOC and WAR are trying to be their own game, they both added something in an attempt to break away from the mold left behind from WOW.
In my opinion of course.
innovative
adjective
1. ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced]
2. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original"
DAoC had all those items I highlighted in green in the year 2000, not innovative. SWG also did it in 2003. AoC simply copied what had been done years before there fore not innovative. The dodging and blocking is good but those two thing does not quantify the game as the most innovative. That would be like me stating that LoTRO's player generated music system and playing as a NPC in certain quests qualified it aas the most innovative.
I played LoTRO extensively as well as AoC. AoC's lvl 1 - 20 quests were good , nothing innovative but well done. LoTRO's quests beat it hands down and does not quit at lvl 20 as AoC's does. For that matter EQII's quest system is more innovative than AOC's.
Sorry but nothing innovative about AoC. It just is EQ1 with shiny but player limiting graphics ( too many restrictions on movement for my taste ) and a nicely done but nothing that really has not been done before combat system.
You know you should have put the origiinal SWG in there. It was probably the most innovative MMORPG to ever to hit the shelf. I don't see anything innovative about AoC. The combat is just a simple tierd system, LoTRO does the same thing just instead of hitting the buttons real fast like AoC you let each ability fire off before going to the next. I used G11 keyboard macros in AoC for the combos. Can't do that in very easy in LoTRO because of the timers and different mobs react better to different attack styles.. To me AoC was just a simplified WoW with prettier graphics and less freedom of movement
Wait, in lotro and wow you can use positioning, semi real-time attacks, active dodging and blocking, directional attacks and first person targeting (bow)? Sorry to anyone who's a naysayer but none of these things have been apart of any combat system I've played in an MMO. Some of them have been used singlely in an MMO, not all together in one system.
SWG: yes it's by far the most innovative MMO available, however it didn't release post WOW.
AOC is the only MMO since wow released that has broken away from the mainstream questing formula. I'm not referring to what you do on a quest, I'm referring to the way quests are presented. They at least attempted to add a little bit of life to the characters you interact with. They've tried merging the experience you get from a single player RPG, with MMO game mechanics. They partially succeeded IMO.
Compared to WOW I don't find many similarities in AOC.The gameplay is different, the combat is different, the motivation is different, the world layout is different and the lore is different.
Warhammer is more like WOW, even there you can point out a whole bunch of differences. The most comparable game on that list to wow would be lotro, which shows in only 7% thinking it divereged from the WOW formula.
Both AOC and WAR are trying to be their own game, they both added something in an attempt to break away from the mold left behind from WOW.
In my opinion of course.
innovative
adjective
1. ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced]
2. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original"
DAoC had all those items I highlighted in green in the year 2000, not innovative. SWG also did it in 2003. AoC simply copied what had been done years before there fore not innovative. The dodging and blocking is good but those two thing does not quantify the game as the most innovative. That would be like me stating that LoTRO's player generated music system and playing as a NPC in certain quests qualified it aas the most innovative.
I played LoTRO extensively as well as AoC. AoC's lvl 1 - 20 quests were good , nothing innovative but well done. LoTRO's quests beat it hands down and does not quit at lvl 20 as AoC's does. For that matter EQII's quest system is more innovative than AOC's.
Sorry but nothing innovative about AoC. It just is EQ1 with shiny but player limiting graphics ( too many restrictions on movement for my taste ) and a nicely done but nothing that really has not been done before combat system.
You're talking about the only two MMO's I was trully into. SWG had no active blocking, neither had real time combat. swg's combat worked just like any other MMO as did daoc's, difference being the way attacks could be strung together. ie. lunge attack lowered stances, dizzy attack dizzied, another lowering stance dropped an opponent to their back. They couldn't stand until the dizzy was removed.
Sorry by the very definition the combat alone has brought a new formula to the medium. The controls are very similar to a console game which is new to MMO's, is it not? The closest comparison I can think of would be fight night. ie. Directional movement dictates where you strike, daoc had nothing like that nor did swg, at least in the sense you're saying. They had individual attacks that targeted an area of the body but they were totally different than how funcom designed theirs.
Innovation means a few different things (your posting of the definition proves this). Moving in a new direction from WOW is the whole point behind this discussion, they did so. Again daoc and swg came before WOW, they're a moot point in this discussion, had the OP asked since SWG what has been innovative in comparison? The answer would be nothing. Since WOW quite a few games have moved in a different direction, tabula rasa, aoc and hellgate to name a few.
As for your absolute idea on this or that exluding the package as the most innovative post WOW. That's all in the eye's of the beholder, as I said that was based off my own opinion. That would be based on which game I've tried out that feels the least like wow , and where the genre has been aiming the last few years. In my expereince that game has been AOC. Followed closely by TR and WAR. I'd say Guild wars in there, but all that really is, is arena PVP which is an idea from WOW.
The genre hasn't evolved a whole lot since 2003, imo it's pretty much done the opposite. I must say this is largely due to WOW's success, which everyone has been chasing. AOC and TR were the first two to release (I have played) that didn't follow that formula, they may have borrowed from else where. That decision could start a new trend in a different direction, based on AOC's original sales, quite a few people wanted something different, was it different enough? No, it's a step though, one that's likely to be followed,Bioware perhaps?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You know you should have put the origiinal SWG in there. It was probably the most innovative MMORPG to ever to hit the shelf. I don't see anything innovative about AoC. The combat is just a simple tierd system, LoTRO does the same thing just instead of hitting the buttons real fast like AoC you let each ability fire off before going to the next. I used G11 keyboard macros in AoC for the combos. Can't do that in very easy in LoTRO because of the timers and different mobs react better to different attack styles.. To me AoC was just a simplified WoW with prettier graphics and less freedom of movement
Wait, in lotro and wow you can use positioning, semi real-time attacks, active dodging and blocking, directional attacks and first person targeting (bow)? Sorry to anyone who's a naysayer but none of these things have been apart of any combat system I've played in an MMO. Some of them have been used singlely in an MMO, not all together in one system.
SWG: yes it's by far the most innovative MMO available, however it didn't release post WOW.
AOC is the only MMO since wow released that has broken away from the mainstream questing formula. I'm not referring to what you do on a quest, I'm referring to the way quests are presented. They at least attempted to add a little bit of life to the characters you interact with. They've tried merging the experience you get from a single player RPG, with MMO game mechanics. They partially succeeded IMO.
Compared to WOW I don't find many similarities in AOC.The gameplay is different, the combat is different, the motivation is different, the world layout is different and the lore is different.
Warhammer is more like WOW, even there you can point out a whole bunch of differences. The most comparable game on that list to wow would be lotro, which shows in only 7% thinking it divereged from the WOW formula.
Both AOC and WAR are trying to be their own game, they both added something in an attempt to break away from the mold left behind from WOW.
In my opinion of course.
innovative
adjective
1. ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced]
2. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original"
DAoC had all those items I highlighted in green in the year 2000, not innovative. SWG also did it in 2003. AoC simply copied what had been done years before there fore not innovative. The dodging and blocking is good but those two thing does not quantify the game as the most innovative. That would be like me stating that LoTRO's player generated music system and playing as a NPC in certain quests qualified it aas the most innovative.
I played LoTRO extensively as well as AoC. AoC's lvl 1 - 20 quests were good , nothing innovative but well done. LoTRO's quests beat it hands down and does not quit at lvl 20 as AoC's does. For that matter EQII's quest system is more innovative than AOC's.
Sorry but nothing innovative about AoC. It just is EQ1 with shiny but player limiting graphics ( too many restrictions on movement for my taste ) and a nicely done but nothing that really has not been done before combat system.
You're talking about the only two MMO's I was trully into. SWG had no active blocking, neither had real time combat. swg's combat worked just like any other MMO as did daoc's, difference being the way attacks could be strung together. ie. lunge attack lowered stances, dizzy attack dizzied, another lowering stance dropped an opponent to their back. They couldn't stand until the dizzy was removed.
Sorry by the very definition the combat alone has brought a new formula to the medium. The controls are very similar to a console game which is new to MMO's, is it not? The closest comparison I can think of would be fight night. ie. Directional movement dictates where you strike, daoc had nothing like that nor did swg, at least in the sense you're saying. They had individual attacks that targeted an area of the body but they were totally different than how funcom designed theirs.
Innovation means a few different things (your posting of the definition proves this). Moving in a new direction from WOW is the whole point behind this discussion, they did so. Again daoc and swg came before WOW, they're a moot point in this discussion, had the OP asked since SWG what has been innovative in comparison? The answer would be nothing. Since WOW quite a few games have moved in a different direction, tabula rasa, aoc and hellgate to name a few.
As for your absolute idea on this or that exluding the package as the most innovative post WOW. That's all in the eye's of the beholder, as I said that was based off my own opinion. That would be based on which game I've tried out that feels the least like wow , and where the genre has been aiming the last few years. In my expereince that game has been AOC. Followed closely by TR and WAR. I'd say Guild wars in there, but all that really is, is arena PVP which is an idea from WOW.
The genre hasn't evolved a whole lot since 2003, imo it's pretty much done the opposite. I must say this is largely due to WOW's success, which everyone has been chasing. AOC and TR were the first two to release (I have played) that didn't follow that formula, they may have borrowed from else where. That decision could start a new trend in a different direction, based on AOC's original sales, quite a few people wanted something different, was it different enough? No, it's a step though, one that's likely to be followed,Bioware perhaps?
Malackie DAOC had directional attack, here is link to the blades skill line for Champion as a example
notice the prerequisite / To the side , behind target etc
The original SWG had kneeling and prone attacks for the ranged weapons, also position and stances for the fencer. I never played a terra kasa so I won't speak on that.I don't know whether you are referring to post NGE and if they simplified em or not but the original skills had postional attacks.
The only thing that AoC had that I don't remember in other games is the positional blocking and that certainly does not qualify it for the most innovative MMORPG LoL . I am not sure what you mean by real time, no MMORPG that I have ever played used turn based combat so as far as I am concerned all were real time combat.
AoC is nothing special or innovative or complicated. In fact it well below par as far as mainstream games go. Seems as if the player base has made that very clear when they voted wth thier wallets.
Originally posted by Jackdog Malackie DAOC had directional attack, here is link to the blades skill line for Champion as a example camelotvault.ign.com/skills/ notice the prerequisite / To the side , behind target etc The original SWG had kneeling and prone attacks for the ranged weapons, also position and stances for the fencer. I never played a terra kasa so I won't speak on that.I don't know whether you are referring to post NGE and if they simplified em or not but the original skills had postional attacks. The only thing that AoC had that I don't remember in other games is the positional blocking and that certainly does not qualify it for the most innovative MMORPG LoL . I am not sure what you mean by real time, no MMORPG that I have ever played used turn based combat so as far as I am concerned all were real time combat. AoC is nothing special or innovative or complicated. In fact it well below par as far as mainstream games go. Seems as if the player base has made that very clear when they voted wth thier wallets.
Again, daoc has attacks that are dependent on position. That's not the same as how fc implemented directional combat. I just explained that in my last post. I know they have those attacks. As for SWG I just explained the fencers directional attacks for you, I was a fencer for 3 years. You don't have to attempt to explain their combat to me. Any way you slice it what they did and what FC did is totally different.
It's pseudo real-time not real-time. As in you push in a direction you attack in that direction almost instantly (even out of combat).No auto attack etc....
Again as I said innovation is all in the eyes of the beholder, compared to the other games he listed AOC gets my vote. What other people feel is what they feel, that doesn't change my opinion. SHould I have voted for lotro, lol?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have been in so many betatests and are currently TL testing AoC. I think FC has successfully implemented a range of new ideas that have little to huge impact on the MMO gaming experience.
What like? other than the combat system what new ideas has funcom brought to the mmo space? I've seen lots of people say how innovative aoc is but none of them have once been able to justify it.
Im curious here too noggy1980. What Funcom did in my eyes that was innovative was release a complete hunk of crap? In almost (if not every single way)everyway... If thats innovation, hats off to FUNCOM.
Giving someone rights to the guild bank and logging on the next day to find the guild disbanded : PRICELESS!!! Just one example of the innovation FUNCOM is so hard at work bringing us.
Some people are like slinkies, they dont really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Originally posted by Jackdog Malackie DAOC had directional attack, here is link to the blades skill line for Champion as a example camelotvault.ign.com/skills/ notice the prerequisite / To the side , behind target etc The original SWG had kneeling and prone attacks for the ranged weapons, also position and stances for the fencer. I never played a terra kasa so I won't speak on that.I don't know whether you are referring to post NGE and if they simplified em or not but the original skills had postional attacks. The only thing that AoC had that I don't remember in other games is the positional blocking and that certainly does not qualify it for the most innovative MMORPG LoL . I am not sure what you mean by real time, no MMORPG that I have ever played used turn based combat so as far as I am concerned all were real time combat. AoC is nothing special or innovative or complicated. In fact it well below par as far as mainstream games go. Seems as if the player base has made that very clear when they voted wth thier wallets.
Again, daoc has attacks that are dependent on position. That's not the same as how fc implemented directional combat. I just explained that in my last post. I know they have those attacks. As for SWG I just explained the fencers directional attacks for you, I was a fencer for 3 years. You don't have to attempt to explain their combat to me. Any way you slice it what they did and what FC did is totally different.
I would not call what funcom did revolutionary. What funcom did has been done a zillion times on the console side, which unless I'm mistaken, was this games original true destination.
It's pseudo real-time not real-time. As in you push in a direction you attack in that direction almost instantly (even out of combat).No auto attack etc....
Again as I said innovation is all in the eyes of the beholder, compared to the other games he listed AOC gets my vote. What other people feel is what they feel, that doesn't change my opinion. SHould I have voted for lotro, lol?
LOL - I did, it was the only other game listed I have played. If you want to give lotro points for the music and social clothing stuff - then hell yea... On the nights I was too exhausted to raid or just didnt feel like it, I could get into a group and jam music written specifically for my instrument with others doing the same.... Man whatever ya wanna say about LOTRO, that was more innovative than push up, side, downright, up, side, down, downright - complete combo.
Or to be really honest and actually describe the combat as it is in the game. Push up, wait 2.86 seconds, side, wait 2.35 seconds... oops you pushed downright before 3 seconds expired, cooldown on skill timer starts....
I havent played a game that actually made me go buy a programmable keyboard just to avoid the tedium that the key pressing in AOC really becomes.... Esp since that when you level you get more and more keys to push... Did a 12 year old design this system?
Some people are like slinkies, they dont really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Originally posted by Jackdog Malackie DAOC had directional attack, here is link to the blades skill line for Champion as a example camelotvault.ign.com/skills/ notice the prerequisite / To the side , behind target etc The original SWG had kneeling and prone attacks for the ranged weapons, also position and stances for the fencer. I never played a terra kasa so I won't speak on that.I don't know whether you are referring to post NGE and if they simplified em or not but the original skills had postional attacks. The only thing that AoC had that I don't remember in other games is the positional blocking and that certainly does not qualify it for the most innovative MMORPG LoL . I am not sure what you mean by real time, no MMORPG that I have ever played used turn based combat so as far as I am concerned all were real time combat. AoC is nothing special or innovative or complicated. In fact it well below par as far as mainstream games go. Seems as if the player base has made that very clear when they voted wth thier wallets.
Again, daoc has attacks that are dependent on position. That's not the same as how fc implemented directional combat. I just explained that in my last post. I know they have those attacks. As for SWG I just explained the fencers directional attacks for you, I was a fencer for 3 years. You don't have to attempt to explain their combat to me. Any way you slice it what they did and what FC did is totally different.
I would not call what funcom did revolutionary. What funcom did has been done a zillion times on the console side, which unless I'm mistaken, was this games original true destination.
Exactly, which is new to MMO's, which is why it got my vote. It could spark a new direction for combat in an MMO. I prefer a more hands on approach. Given the right attention what they attempted could work really well. I actually hope bioware takes a bit of inspiration from it for melee combat.
It's pseudo real-time not real-time. As in you push in a direction you attack in that direction almost instantly (even out of combat).No auto attack etc....
Again as I said innovation is all in the eyes of the beholder, compared to the other games he listed AOC gets my vote. What other people feel is what they feel, that doesn't change my opinion. SHould I have voted for lotro, lol?
LOL - I did, it was the only other game listed I have played. If you want to give lotro points for the music and social clothing stuff - then hell yea... On the nights I was too exhausted to raid or just didnt feel like it, I could get into a group and jam music written specifically for my instrument with others doing the same.... Man whatever ya wanna say about LOTRO, that was more innovative than push up, side, downright, up, side, down, downright - complete combo.
I agree the music system in lotro rocks, I just wish they used the same imagination when designing the rest of the game. Everything else felt to much like wow for me.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have been in so many betatests and are currently TL testing AoC. I think FC has successfully implemented a range of new ideas that have little to huge impact on the MMO gaming experience.
What like? other than the combat system what new ideas has funcom brought to the mmo space? I've seen lots of people say how innovative aoc is but none of them have once been able to justify it.
No one owes you a justification for their own personal opinion. Why does it bother you so much people feel differently than you? Now were not even allowed to have our own opinions here wtf?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have been in so many betatests and are currently TL testing AoC. I think FC has successfully implemented a range of new ideas that have little to huge impact on the MMO gaming experience.
What like? other than the combat system what new ideas has funcom brought to the mmo space? I've seen lots of people say how innovative aoc is but none of them have once been able to justify it.
No one owes you a justification for their own personal opinion. Why does it bother you so much people feel differently than you? Now were not even allowed to have our own opinions here wtf?
Wtf? Do you understand the concept of a debate? Now we're not even allowed to disagree with people? Why don't we shut down the forums then and all go home?
Noggy is not attacking him personally, he's asking a valid question. I actually started a thread on the same topic.
If someone says something stupid, like Transporter here said, we are allowed to call him out and ask for an explanation. "New ideas"? What new ideas? I saw much more new ideas in WAR than in AoC.
Stop the drama, go google "what is a forum?" and read what it says.
I have been in so many betatests and are currently TL testing AoC. I think FC has successfully implemented a range of new ideas that have little to huge impact on the MMO gaming experience.
What like? other than the combat system what new ideas has funcom brought to the mmo space? I've seen lots of people say how innovative aoc is but none of them have once been able to justify it.
No one owes you a justification for their own personal opinion. Why does it bother you so much people feel differently than you? Now were not even allowed to have our own opinions here wtf?
Wtf? Do you understand the concept of a debate? Now we're not even allowed to disagree with people? Why don't we shut down the forums then and all go home?
ROFl, yeah man.. it seems like you really understood what i was just saying.
What I am saying is plenty of people have justified their reasons for voting for AOC, he just won't accept their opinions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WoW is a beast, it got dynamic engaging gameplay you can not find in other MMO. PvE is close to perfect. PvP is good, but not perfect.
There is one thing I want to see in future MMO's, and that is less static questing and grinding, more meaninful depth for XP. We had enough of running around doing quests. Most players like to XP in another way.
WoW is the MMO genre's benchmark tool, and for good reasons. The game is fluid in so many areas. Movements/animations are soft and feels integrated in the world without stickyness, little lagg/latency compared to other MMO's, fun/engaging gameplay especially in PvE but also PvP, interesting race/classes, professional GM's and developers etc etc..
Comments
Wait, in lotro and wow you can use positioning, semi real-time attacks, active dodging and blocking, directional attacks and first person targeting (bow)? Sorry to anyone who's a naysayer but none of these things have been apart of any combat system I've played in an MMO. Some of them have been used singlely in an MMO, not all together in one system.
SWG: yes it's by far the most innovative MMO available, however it didn't release post WOW.
AOC is the only MMO since wow released that has broken away from the mainstream questing formula. I'm not referring to what you do on a quest, I'm referring to the way quests are presented. They at least attempted to add a little bit of life to the characters you interact with. They've tried merging the experience you get from a single player RPG, with MMO game mechanics. They partially succeeded IMO.
Compared to WOW I don't find many similarities in AOC.The gameplay is different, the combat is different, the motivation is different, the world layout is different and the lore is different.
Warhammer is more like WOW, even there you can point out a whole bunch of differences. The most comparable game on that list to wow would be lotro, which shows in only 7% thinking it divereged from the WOW formula.
Both AOC and WAR are trying to be their own game, they both added something in an attempt to break away from the mold left behind from WOW.
In my opinion of course.
innovative
adjective
1. ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced]
2. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original"
DAoC had all those items I highlighted in green in the year 2000, not innovative. SWG also did it in 2003. AoC simply copied what had been done years before there fore not innovative. The dodging and blocking is good but those two thing does not quantify the game as the most innovative. That would be like me stating that LoTRO's player generated music system and playing as a NPC in certain quests qualified it aas the most innovative.
I played LoTRO extensively as well as AoC. AoC's lvl 1 - 20 quests were good , nothing innovative but well done. LoTRO's quests beat it hands down and does not quit at lvl 20 as AoC's does. For that matter EQII's quest system is more innovative than AOC's.
Sorry but nothing innovative about AoC. It just is EQ1 with shiny but player limiting graphics ( too many restrictions on movement for my taste ) and a nicely done but nothing that really has not been done before combat system.
I miss DAoC
Wait, in lotro and wow you can use positioning, semi real-time attacks, active dodging and blocking, directional attacks and first person targeting (bow)? Sorry to anyone who's a naysayer but none of these things have been apart of any combat system I've played in an MMO. Some of them have been used singlely in an MMO, not all together in one system.
SWG: yes it's by far the most innovative MMO available, however it didn't release post WOW.
AOC is the only MMO since wow released that has broken away from the mainstream questing formula. I'm not referring to what you do on a quest, I'm referring to the way quests are presented. They at least attempted to add a little bit of life to the characters you interact with. They've tried merging the experience you get from a single player RPG, with MMO game mechanics. They partially succeeded IMO.
Compared to WOW I don't find many similarities in AOC.The gameplay is different, the combat is different, the motivation is different, the world layout is different and the lore is different.
Warhammer is more like WOW, even there you can point out a whole bunch of differences. The most comparable game on that list to wow would be lotro, which shows in only 7% thinking it divereged from the WOW formula.
Both AOC and WAR are trying to be their own game, they both added something in an attempt to break away from the mold left behind from WOW.
In my opinion of course.
innovative
adjective
1. ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced]
2. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original"
DAoC had all those items I highlighted in green in the year 2000, not innovative. SWG also did it in 2003. AoC simply copied what had been done years before there fore not innovative. The dodging and blocking is good but those two thing does not quantify the game as the most innovative. That would be like me stating that LoTRO's player generated music system and playing as a NPC in certain quests qualified it aas the most innovative.
I played LoTRO extensively as well as AoC. AoC's lvl 1 - 20 quests were good , nothing innovative but well done. LoTRO's quests beat it hands down and does not quit at lvl 20 as AoC's does. For that matter EQII's quest system is more innovative than AOC's.
Sorry but nothing innovative about AoC. It just is EQ1 with shiny but player limiting graphics ( too many restrictions on movement for my taste ) and a nicely done but nothing that really has not been done before combat system.
You're talking about the only two MMO's I was trully into. SWG had no active blocking, neither had real time combat. swg's combat worked just like any other MMO as did daoc's, difference being the way attacks could be strung together. ie. lunge attack lowered stances, dizzy attack dizzied, another lowering stance dropped an opponent to their back. They couldn't stand until the dizzy was removed.
Sorry by the very definition the combat alone has brought a new formula to the medium. The controls are very similar to a console game which is new to MMO's, is it not? The closest comparison I can think of would be fight night. ie. Directional movement dictates where you strike, daoc had nothing like that nor did swg, at least in the sense you're saying. They had individual attacks that targeted an area of the body but they were totally different than how funcom designed theirs.
Innovation means a few different things (your posting of the definition proves this). Moving in a new direction from WOW is the whole point behind this discussion, they did so. Again daoc and swg came before WOW, they're a moot point in this discussion, had the OP asked since SWG what has been innovative in comparison? The answer would be nothing. Since WOW quite a few games have moved in a different direction, tabula rasa, aoc and hellgate to name a few.
As for your absolute idea on this or that exluding the package as the most innovative post WOW. That's all in the eye's of the beholder, as I said that was based off my own opinion. That would be based on which game I've tried out that feels the least like wow , and where the genre has been aiming the last few years. In my expereince that game has been AOC. Followed closely by TR and WAR. I'd say Guild wars in there, but all that really is, is arena PVP which is an idea from WOW.
The genre hasn't evolved a whole lot since 2003, imo it's pretty much done the opposite. I must say this is largely due to WOW's success, which everyone has been chasing. AOC and TR were the first two to release (I have played) that didn't follow that formula, they may have borrowed from else where. That decision could start a new trend in a different direction, based on AOC's original sales, quite a few people wanted something different, was it different enough? No, it's a step though, one that's likely to be followed,Bioware perhaps?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Wait, in lotro and wow you can use positioning, semi real-time attacks, active dodging and blocking, directional attacks and first person targeting (bow)? Sorry to anyone who's a naysayer but none of these things have been apart of any combat system I've played in an MMO. Some of them have been used singlely in an MMO, not all together in one system.
SWG: yes it's by far the most innovative MMO available, however it didn't release post WOW.
AOC is the only MMO since wow released that has broken away from the mainstream questing formula. I'm not referring to what you do on a quest, I'm referring to the way quests are presented. They at least attempted to add a little bit of life to the characters you interact with. They've tried merging the experience you get from a single player RPG, with MMO game mechanics. They partially succeeded IMO.
Compared to WOW I don't find many similarities in AOC.The gameplay is different, the combat is different, the motivation is different, the world layout is different and the lore is different.
Warhammer is more like WOW, even there you can point out a whole bunch of differences. The most comparable game on that list to wow would be lotro, which shows in only 7% thinking it divereged from the WOW formula.
Both AOC and WAR are trying to be their own game, they both added something in an attempt to break away from the mold left behind from WOW.
In my opinion of course.
innovative
adjective
1. ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced]
2. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original"
DAoC had all those items I highlighted in green in the year 2000, not innovative. SWG also did it in 2003. AoC simply copied what had been done years before there fore not innovative. The dodging and blocking is good but those two thing does not quantify the game as the most innovative. That would be like me stating that LoTRO's player generated music system and playing as a NPC in certain quests qualified it aas the most innovative.
I played LoTRO extensively as well as AoC. AoC's lvl 1 - 20 quests were good , nothing innovative but well done. LoTRO's quests beat it hands down and does not quit at lvl 20 as AoC's does. For that matter EQII's quest system is more innovative than AOC's.
Sorry but nothing innovative about AoC. It just is EQ1 with shiny but player limiting graphics ( too many restrictions on movement for my taste ) and a nicely done but nothing that really has not been done before combat system.
You're talking about the only two MMO's I was trully into. SWG had no active blocking, neither had real time combat. swg's combat worked just like any other MMO as did daoc's, difference being the way attacks could be strung together. ie. lunge attack lowered stances, dizzy attack dizzied, another lowering stance dropped an opponent to their back. They couldn't stand until the dizzy was removed.
Sorry by the very definition the combat alone has brought a new formula to the medium. The controls are very similar to a console game which is new to MMO's, is it not? The closest comparison I can think of would be fight night. ie. Directional movement dictates where you strike, daoc had nothing like that nor did swg, at least in the sense you're saying. They had individual attacks that targeted an area of the body but they were totally different than how funcom designed theirs.
Innovation means a few different things (your posting of the definition proves this). Moving in a new direction from WOW is the whole point behind this discussion, they did so. Again daoc and swg came before WOW, they're a moot point in this discussion, had the OP asked since SWG what has been innovative in comparison? The answer would be nothing. Since WOW quite a few games have moved in a different direction, tabula rasa, aoc and hellgate to name a few.
As for your absolute idea on this or that exluding the package as the most innovative post WOW. That's all in the eye's of the beholder, as I said that was based off my own opinion. That would be based on which game I've tried out that feels the least like wow , and where the genre has been aiming the last few years. In my expereince that game has been AOC. Followed closely by TR and WAR. I'd say Guild wars in there, but all that really is, is arena PVP which is an idea from WOW.
The genre hasn't evolved a whole lot since 2003, imo it's pretty much done the opposite. I must say this is largely due to WOW's success, which everyone has been chasing. AOC and TR were the first two to release (I have played) that didn't follow that formula, they may have borrowed from else where. That decision could start a new trend in a different direction, based on AOC's original sales, quite a few people wanted something different, was it different enough? No, it's a step though, one that's likely to be followed,Bioware perhaps?
Malackie DAOC had directional attack, here is link to the blades skill line for Champion as a example
camelotvault.ign.com/skills/
notice the prerequisite / To the side , behind target etc
The original SWG had kneeling and prone attacks for the ranged weapons, also position and stances for the fencer. I never played a terra kasa so I won't speak on that.I don't know whether you are referring to post NGE and if they simplified em or not but the original skills had postional attacks.
The only thing that AoC had that I don't remember in other games is the positional blocking and that certainly does not qualify it for the most innovative MMORPG LoL . I am not sure what you mean by real time, no MMORPG that I have ever played used turn based combat so as far as I am concerned all were real time combat.
AoC is nothing special or innovative or complicated. In fact it well below par as far as mainstream games go. Seems as if the player base has made that very clear when they voted wth thier wallets.
I miss DAoC
I vote for Dungeons and Dragons Online. Wonder for what reason it isn't included as an option in the poll.
I vote none...
Its been all crap and stagnant since wow came out..just same shit with different pudding
Again, daoc has attacks that are dependent on position. That's not the same as how fc implemented directional combat. I just explained that in my last post. I know they have those attacks. As for SWG I just explained the fencers directional attacks for you, I was a fencer for 3 years. You don't have to attempt to explain their combat to me. Any way you slice it what they did and what FC did is totally different.
It's pseudo real-time not real-time. As in you push in a direction you attack in that direction almost instantly (even out of combat).No auto attack etc....
Again as I said innovation is all in the eyes of the beholder, compared to the other games he listed AOC gets my vote. What other people feel is what they feel, that doesn't change my opinion. SHould I have voted for lotro, lol?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What like? other than the combat system what new ideas has funcom brought to the mmo space? I've seen lots of people say how innovative aoc is but none of them have once been able to justify it.
Im curious here too noggy1980. What Funcom did in my eyes that was innovative was release a complete hunk of crap? In almost (if not every single way)everyway... If thats innovation, hats off to FUNCOM.
Giving someone rights to the guild bank and logging on the next day to find the guild disbanded : PRICELESS!!! Just one example of the innovation FUNCOM is so hard at work bringing us.
Some people are like slinkies, they dont really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Again, daoc has attacks that are dependent on position. That's not the same as how fc implemented directional combat. I just explained that in my last post. I know they have those attacks. As for SWG I just explained the fencers directional attacks for you, I was a fencer for 3 years. You don't have to attempt to explain their combat to me. Any way you slice it what they did and what FC did is totally different.
I would not call what funcom did revolutionary. What funcom did has been done a zillion times on the console side, which unless I'm mistaken, was this games original true destination.
It's pseudo real-time not real-time. As in you push in a direction you attack in that direction almost instantly (even out of combat).No auto attack etc....
Again as I said innovation is all in the eyes of the beholder, compared to the other games he listed AOC gets my vote. What other people feel is what they feel, that doesn't change my opinion. SHould I have voted for lotro, lol?
LOL - I did, it was the only other game listed I have played. If you want to give lotro points for the music and social clothing stuff - then hell yea... On the nights I was too exhausted to raid or just didnt feel like it, I could get into a group and jam music written specifically for my instrument with others doing the same.... Man whatever ya wanna say about LOTRO, that was more innovative than push up, side, downright, up, side, down, downright - complete combo.
Or to be really honest and actually describe the combat as it is in the game. Push up, wait 2.86 seconds, side, wait 2.35 seconds... oops you pushed downright before 3 seconds expired, cooldown on skill timer starts....
I havent played a game that actually made me go buy a programmable keyboard just to avoid the tedium that the key pressing in AOC really becomes.... Esp since that when you level you get more and more keys to push... Did a 12 year old design this system?
Some people are like slinkies, they dont really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Again, daoc has attacks that are dependent on position. That's not the same as how fc implemented directional combat. I just explained that in my last post. I know they have those attacks. As for SWG I just explained the fencers directional attacks for you, I was a fencer for 3 years. You don't have to attempt to explain their combat to me. Any way you slice it what they did and what FC did is totally different.
I would not call what funcom did revolutionary. What funcom did has been done a zillion times on the console side, which unless I'm mistaken, was this games original true destination.
Exactly, which is new to MMO's, which is why it got my vote. It could spark a new direction for combat in an MMO. I prefer a more hands on approach. Given the right attention what they attempted could work really well. I actually hope bioware takes a bit of inspiration from it for melee combat.
It's pseudo real-time not real-time. As in you push in a direction you attack in that direction almost instantly (even out of combat).No auto attack etc....
Again as I said innovation is all in the eyes of the beholder, compared to the other games he listed AOC gets my vote. What other people feel is what they feel, that doesn't change my opinion. SHould I have voted for lotro, lol?
LOL - I did, it was the only other game listed I have played. If you want to give lotro points for the music and social clothing stuff - then hell yea... On the nights I was too exhausted to raid or just didnt feel like it, I could get into a group and jam music written specifically for my instrument with others doing the same.... Man whatever ya wanna say about LOTRO, that was more innovative than push up, side, downright, up, side, down, downright - complete combo.
I agree the music system in lotro rocks, I just wish they used the same imagination when designing the rest of the game. Everything else felt to much like wow for me.For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What like? other than the combat system what new ideas has funcom brought to the mmo space? I've seen lots of people say how innovative aoc is but none of them have once been able to justify it.
No one owes you a justification for their own personal opinion. Why does it bother you so much people feel differently than you? Now were not even allowed to have our own opinions here wtf?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You really need a None of the Above option.
What like? other than the combat system what new ideas has funcom brought to the mmo space? I've seen lots of people say how innovative aoc is but none of them have once been able to justify it.
No one owes you a justification for their own personal opinion. Why does it bother you so much people feel differently than you? Now were not even allowed to have our own opinions here wtf?
Wtf? Do you understand the concept of a debate? Now we're not even allowed to disagree with people? Why don't we shut down the forums then and all go home?
Noggy is not attacking him personally, he's asking a valid question. I actually started a thread on the same topic.
If someone says something stupid, like Transporter here said, we are allowed to call him out and ask for an explanation. "New ideas"? What new ideas? I saw much more new ideas in WAR than in AoC.
Stop the drama, go google "what is a forum?" and read what it says.
What like? other than the combat system what new ideas has funcom brought to the mmo space? I've seen lots of people say how innovative aoc is but none of them have once been able to justify it.
No one owes you a justification for their own personal opinion. Why does it bother you so much people feel differently than you? Now were not even allowed to have our own opinions here wtf?
Wtf? Do you understand the concept of a debate? Now we're not even allowed to disagree with people? Why don't we shut down the forums then and all go home?
ROFl, yeah man.. it seems like you really understood what i was just saying.
What I am saying is plenty of people have justified their reasons for voting for AOC, he just won't accept their opinions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Most games just can not be compared to WoW.
WoW is a beast, it got dynamic engaging gameplay you can not find in other MMO. PvE is close to perfect. PvP is good, but not perfect.
There is one thing I want to see in future MMO's, and that is less static questing and grinding, more meaninful depth for XP. We had enough of running around doing quests. Most players like to XP in another way.
WoW is the MMO genre's benchmark tool, and for good reasons. The game is fluid in so many areas. Movements/animations are soft and feels integrated in the world without stickyness, little lagg/latency compared to other MMO's, fun/engaging gameplay especially in PvE but also PvP, interesting race/classes, professional GM's and developers etc etc..
Hahahaha
. Some tools actually voted for WAR as most innovative.
There is no *sheep* emoticon so I'll use this
It is preferable not to travel with a dead man.