Paladin Bug. At launch a Paladin was able to take down a world "Raid" mob solo. Proof please. Never heard of this before.
here's your proof:
That was added September 27, 2006 and the video is no longer viewable. What exactly does this prove? Was this the video where the lvl 70 toon solo'd Onyxia in like 3 hours or something? That wasn't a bug and it certainly wasn't even remotely possible at launch since you couldn't get to 70 until the expansion. Kazzak wasn't in till March, about 4 months after release.
It was the reckoning bug that I was thinking about, but while not in right at launch it was a major bug.
Paladin Bug. At launch a Paladin was able to take down a world "Raid" mob solo. Proof please. Never heard of this before.
here's your proof:
That was added September 27, 2006 and the video is no longer viewable. What exactly does this prove? Was this the video where the lvl 70 toon solo'd Onyxia in like 3 hours or something? That wasn't a bug and it certainly wasn't even remotely possible at launch since you couldn't get to 70 until the expansion. Kazzak wasn't in till March, about 4 months after release.
Funny that i just watched the video so i guess it is viewable.
World of Warcraft had numerous bugs at launch and all the way up to January time frame. Some of these bugs were around even longer then that. Loot bug. This was not a server problem as Azile tries to claim. It was a code problem that caused your character to be stuck in loot animation. Years later the problem still was around with Rogue's Vanish skill but the Vanish animation didn't effect your play style. The loot bug was an annoying problem and it did hang around for a long time. That's 1 freaking annoying bug. 1. There's no game that's bug free. No game is completely Bug Free (Dark age of Camelot and Lord of the Rings Online were the two closest at Launch) But The loot bug was a HUGE bug when combined with Server Queues. Rogue's Vanish skill. This didn't work correctly for YEARS. In what way? There was a problem that you could still be seen in some circumstances. VERY minor problem. MAJOR Problem for Rogues. It didn't work most of the time. You could never count on it to actually work. That is a class defining skill. Paladin Bug. At launch a Paladin was able to take down a world "Raid" mob solo. Proof please. Never heard of this before. As I showed in my other post I was thinking of the Reckoning Bug. Which was later in the game. But still a HUGE bug. Booty Bay guards were bugged and were exploited into the Water where they would get stuck. This caused Booty Bay to be an unsafe zone on PVP servers. Minor problem. So the guards didn't protect booty bay like they were suppose to. Whoop de doo. OMG there was an UNSAFE zone on a PVP server!!!! Didn't mean a damn thing on all the PvE servers. It isn't the fact that there was an unsafe zone. It was a pretty major bug though. The Guards had no way of getting back out of the water. You have to admit that it was pretty bad coding on their part. Just like you could kill people in town from on top of buildings without the guards getting you. Both of these techniques were unintended by Blizzard and actually were exploits that could get you banned. Rubber Banding mobs. This happened to several people for quite awhile. What if any problems did it cause? It was a graphics problem. VERY MINOR. It would cause problems with combat. The Mobs would be hitting you but you couldn't hit them. Invulnerable mobs. Holes in the world. That happend how often? I saw 1 the whole time I played and I couldn't even recreate it, was just some wierd glitch. It was EXTREMELY rare. All you had to do to recover was use the /unstuck command I believe. /unstuck wouldn't always work because in some cases the hole in the world glitch caused death and unrecoverable bodies. This was still a problem in some places within the last 6 months. My Aunt had it happen to her when she started playing. She went exploring and fell off a mountain and fell through the world. This one is fairly minor since there is no real point to corpse recover in WoW.
Except for the loot bug, these were all very MINOR problems. And the loot bug was more annoying than anything, it didn't cause any real issues, just took you several seconds to loot mobs. A bigger problem you didn't mention were the bugged mining nodes. Now THAT was annoying as you would get stuck in the crouched position and it took a while to get fixed, but people quickly learned to avoid them and a simple logout and login fixed the problem. It was only annoying because of the queues. This I would say was the worst problem it had at launch.
Every game has these types of problems. You're talking about a half a dozen problems within a HUGE game world. Where were the constant crashes to desktop? Where were the 2 FPS in zones? Where were the getting stuck and NOT being able to recover? Where were the losing items from your inventory? Where were the problems that kept you from playing the game? There weren't any. At least I never experienced any and I know no one that I played with experienced any. All the bugs were minor ones that were worked out eventually. And lets not forget the 97 billion (made that up) things that worked perfectly. The few issues it did have were easy to overlook because of everything it did right. THAT'S the difference. It's not the number of problems, it's the number of problems compared to the number of things that work correctly that is important.
The same could be said for other games though too. I never encountered a Bug on LoTRO online. From Alpha all the way through launch.
I never encountered a bug on Dark Age of Camelot at Launch either. (Un-itemized dungeons on the other hand in Hibernia )
I didn't encounter any on City of Heroes either.
My main point was that World of Warcraft is looked so favorably on mainly due to people starting with a much more polished product then any other MMO.
That makes a huge difference.
Don't get me wrong I thought World of Warcraft was a good game. A game worth 4 years of playing? Nah but it was an excellent game. It just doesn't have much in the way of depth in my opinion.
Of the 42+ mmo games I have played/tested I would place in in the top 10. Maybe even the top 5.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Paladin Bug. At launch a Paladin was able to take down a world "Raid" mob solo. Proof please. Never heard of this before.
here's your proof:
That was added September 27, 2006 and the video is no longer viewable. What exactly does this prove? Was this the video where the lvl 70 toon solo'd Onyxia in like 3 hours or something? That wasn't a bug and it certainly wasn't even remotely possible at launch since you couldn't get to 70 until the expansion. Kazzak wasn't in till March, about 4 months after release.
Funny that i just watched the video so i guess it is viewable.
Must be on your harddrive, because when I try to pull it up, it say "Were sorry, this video is no longer available".
World of Warcraft had numerous bugs at launch and all the way up to January time frame. Some of these bugs were around even longer then that. Loot bug. This was not a server problem as Azile tries to claim. It was a code problem that caused your character to be stuck in loot animation. Years later the problem still was around with Rogue's Vanish skill but the Vanish animation didn't effect your play style. The loot bug was an annoying problem and it did hang around for a long time. That's 1 freaking annoying bug. 1. There's no game that's bug free. No game is completely Bug Free (Dark age of Camelot and Lord of the Rings Online were the two closest at Launch) But The loot bug was a HUGE bug when combined with Server Queues. Rogue's Vanish skill. This didn't work correctly for YEARS. In what way? There was a problem that you could still be seen in some circumstances. VERY minor problem. MAJOR Problem for Rogues. It didn't work most of the time. You could never count on it to actually work. That is a class defining skill. Paladin Bug. At launch a Paladin was able to take down a world "Raid" mob solo. Proof please. Never heard of this before. As I showed in my other post I was thinking of the Reckoning Bug. Which was later in the game. But still a HUGE bug. Booty Bay guards were bugged and were exploited into the Water where they would get stuck. This caused Booty Bay to be an unsafe zone on PVP servers. Minor problem. So the guards didn't protect booty bay like they were suppose to. Whoop de doo. OMG there was an UNSAFE zone on a PVP server!!!! Didn't mean a damn thing on all the PvE servers. It isn't the fact that there was an unsafe zone. It was a pretty major bug though. The Guards had no way of getting back out of the water. You have to admit that it was pretty bad coding on their part. Just like you could kill people in town from on top of buildings without the guards getting you. Both of these techniques were unintended by Blizzard and actually were exploits that could get you banned. Rubber Banding mobs. This happened to several people for quite awhile. What if any problems did it cause? It was a graphics problem. VERY MINOR. It would cause problems with combat. The Mobs would be hitting you but you couldn't hit them. Invulnerable mobs. Holes in the world. That happend how often? I saw 1 the whole time I played and I couldn't even recreate it, was just some wierd glitch. It was EXTREMELY rare. All you had to do to recover was use the /unstuck command I believe. /unstuck wouldn't always work because in some cases the hole in the world glitch caused death and unrecoverable bodies. This was still a problem in some places within the last 6 months. My Aunt had it happen to her when she started playing. She went exploring and fell off a mountain and fell through the world. This one is fairly minor since there is no real point to corpse recover in WoW.
Except for the loot bug, these were all very MINOR problems. And the loot bug was more annoying than anything, it didn't cause any real issues, just took you several seconds to loot mobs. A bigger problem you didn't mention were the bugged mining nodes. Now THAT was annoying as you would get stuck in the crouched position and it took a while to get fixed, but people quickly learned to avoid them and a simple logout and login fixed the problem. It was only annoying because of the queues. This I would say was the worst problem it had at launch.
Every game has these types of problems. You're talking about a half a dozen problems within a HUGE game world. Where were the constant crashes to desktop? Where were the 2 FPS in zones? Where were the getting stuck and NOT being able to recover? Where were the losing items from your inventory? Where were the problems that kept you from playing the game? There weren't any. At least I never experienced any and I know no one that I played with experienced any. All the bugs were minor ones that were worked out eventually. And lets not forget the 97 billion (made that up) things that worked perfectly. The few issues it did have were easy to overlook because of everything it did right. THAT'S the difference. It's not the number of problems, it's the number of problems compared to the number of things that work correctly that is important.
The same could be said for other games though too. I never encountered a Bug on LoTRO online. From Alpha all the way through launch.
I never encountered a bug on Dark Age of Camelot at Launch either. (Un-itemized dungeons on the other hand in Hibernia )
I didn't encounter any on City of Heroes either.
My main point was that World of Warcraft is looked so favorably on mainly due to people starting with a much more polished product then any other MMO.
That makes a huge difference.
Don't get me wrong I thought World of Warcraft was a good game. A game worth 4 years of playing? Nah but it was an excellent game. It just doesn't have much in the way of depth in my opinion.
Of the 42+ mmo games I have played/tested I would place in in the top 10. Maybe even the top 5.
All of the games you mentioned had fairly good launches. Compare that to some games with poor launches. Vanguard had TONS of problems that made the game nearly unplayable. It wouldn't run on a lot of PC's faster than a few frames per second. Many couldn't even get it to start up. There were tons of broken quests. There were lots of crashes to desktop, etc. THESE are MAJOR problems. Sorry, but because vanish didn't ALWAYS work right, is NOT a MAJOR problem.
Paladin Bug. At launch a Paladin was able to take down a world "Raid" mob solo. Proof please. Never heard of this before.
here's your proof:
That was added September 27, 2006 and the video is no longer viewable. What exactly does this prove? Was this the video where the lvl 70 toon solo'd Onyxia in like 3 hours or something? That wasn't a bug and it certainly wasn't even remotely possible at launch since you couldn't get to 70 until the expansion. Kazzak wasn't in till March, about 4 months after release.
there is a pali ability that procced extra swings when they get hit(its in the prot tree forget its name atm) it use to stack, some guy went out and grabbed a bunch of lvl 1 mobs had it stacked like 1000 times and when he went in there all 1000 hits went off in one swing ko'd ony
The only reason why WoW had line/lag on release was because they didint release enough server . 2 Days after release they relaased a bunch of other server i re rolled on one and all the Q/lag was gone .
So the only thing that wow was lacking when it came out was end game content but by the time i was 60 they had released mc/bgs/more end game polish .
Bugs are bugs. Doesn't matter if they are minor and major. They deter from the enjoyment of the game. World of Warcraft wasn't as smooth as people say. It had its problems. All the new players have had the luxary of entering a game that is relatively stable with very few bugs. However, doesn't necessarily make it "better." Better is a matter of perspective and opinion. It is my opinion that WoW is a wonderful PvE game. WAR is a wonderful PvP game, and will get better in that regards.
Like other posters, I've either played or beta tested many games. In terms of enjoyment, WoW is in the top 5. But it isn't #1.
After that, comes a long list of game: SWG, Lineage 2, EQ2, Eve, Auto Assault, CoH/CoV, DAoC, UO. The list goes on. Some of these I beta tested. Of the ones I've beta tested, only 2 or 3 had solid releases; with minimal downtime and bugs. The worst release was Shadowbane, but I enjoyed the game enough to ignore some of the issues.
Most players in WoW are "new" to the MMO genre. Sure, there are a few old timers like myself that are playing/played the game, but the vast majority are young pups. To them, WoW is the crown jewel of the MMO market. To them, it is blasphemy to even mention another game in the same sentece as WoW. Most of them have probably never heard of EQ or UO. Arguing with their kind is a failed endeavor.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
The Reckoning Bug that is being referred to as a "Reckon Bomb". It wasnt some pally soloing Onyxia for 3 hours, it was an exploitable bug.
The Reckon Bomb was used to Solo Doom Lord Kazzak in Blasted Lands on the server Mannoroth. the Paladins name was Canen. It's still talked about on our server from time to time.
Basically, with the way Reckoning worked, when the Paladin was hit with a melee weapon, he would gain a "charge" that was released on the next melee swing. The bug was that if you didnt swing your weapon, the charges kept stacking.
It took Canen roughly 4 hours I believe to stack his Reckon Bomb. He had a rogue using grey daggers to stack it on him. The rogue went through several daggers. I believe Canen had in the area of 950 Reckon charges are on him. He then went and one shot Kazzak.
Personally, my favorite bug was the Geddon Bomb. A warlock could get his pet with the bomb, put him away, then release him at a later date. There are several videos of Warlocks releasing the Bomb in the Auction Houses, and Ive done it myself. It was good fun.
Must be something wrong your end Pappy I just watched the video the guy linked as well. It doesnt' say anything about Onyxia either its a video of a paladin one shot soloing Kazzak like the others said.
Bugs are bugs. Doesn't matter if they are minor and major. Oh really? And you can support this theory? They deter from the enjoyment of the game. A minor bug does, yes. A major bug doesn't deter from the enjoyment of the game, it prevents you from playing it at all. Most people can live with minor bugs although it is frustrating because you're enjoying the game except for the bugs. Major bugs are game breakers and people stop playing the game altogether. World of Warcraft wasn't as smooth as people say. Who said it was smooth? No one is saying that WoW's launch was smooth. There's a lot of people though claiming that the launch was bad, which it wasn't. It was about on par with most launches which aren't that smooth. And we're only talking about the launch, not a month down the road when most of the issues had been ironed out and the game was terrific. It had its problems. All the new players have had the luxary of entering a game that is relatively stable with very few bugs. However, doesn't necessarily make it "better." Better is a matter of perspective and opinion. Agreed, so what difference does it make that WoW's launch wasn't smooth? None. The game was solid. Their were some initial problems at launch, but it didn't take away from the fact that the game was terrific otherwise. It is my opinion that WoW is a wonderful PvE game. WAR is a wonderful PvP game, and will get better in that regards. Why is it that War fans are so afraid to compare War PvE to WoW PvE? I'm not afraid to compare WoW PvP with War's PvP. It's nearly as good in my opinion right now and when WoTLK launches, I think it will be better than War's. What about PvE? War's doesn't compare with WoW's. It just doesn't. Even War fans will admit that. Most of them anyway. Most players in WoW are "new" to the MMO genre. Sure, there are a few old timers like myself that are playing/played the game, but the vast majority are young pups. To them, WoW is the crown jewel of the MMO market. To them, it is blasphemy to even mention another game in the same sentece as WoW. Most of them have probably never heard of EQ or UO. Arguing with their kind is a failed endeavor. But there are also a lot of us old timers that HAVE played MMO's prior to WoW and think WoW is the best. We have played these older MMO's, like DAoC, EQ, UO or whatever else you want to throw out and we've decided that while those games were good, WoW is better. Things change. Genre's change. Just because EQ or UO or DAoC had something good going on at one point in time, that doesn't mean that anything new can't be better. And if DAoC or EQ or UO were better than WoW, than why did WoW become so much more popular than their successors? EQ2 didn't do nearly as well as WoW and it was released at essentially the same time and War has just been released and a lot of the people who have played WoW have at least given a look at War and it's not seeing the success that WoW did. Richard Garriot's Tabula Rasa has been anything but impressive. How do you explain the fact that games by the same developers that gave us EQ, UO and DAoC have not been able to wrestle away the crowd that's formed around WoW?
Must be something wrong your end Pappy I just watched the video the guy linked as well. It doesnt' say anything about Onyxia either its a video of a paladin one shot soloing Kazzak like the others said.
I'll check again from home, perhaps the firewall here at work is blocking it, but I've watched other stuff at youtube before from work. The only reason I mentioned the Onyxia video is because some of the other video's were about Onyxia and Onyxia was in at launch. Kazzak was not in the game at launch, so there's no way someone solo'd Kazzak at launch, therefore it could not have been a bug that was introduced at launch. And if the video shows a lvl 70 soloing Kazzak, just what does that have to do with the launch when BC didn't come out till 2 years later?
The Reckoning Bug that is being referred to as a "Reckon Bomb". It wasnt some pally soloing Onyxia for 3 hours, it was an exploitable bug. The Reckon Bomb was used to Solo Doom Lord Kazzak in Blasted Lands on the server Mannoroth. the Paladins name was Canen. It's still talked about on our server from time to time. Basically, with the way Reckoning worked, when the Paladin was hit with a melee weapon, he would gain a "charge" that was released on the next melee swing. The bug was that if you didnt swing your weapon, the charges kept stacking. It took Canen roughly 4 hours I believe to stack his Reckon Bomb. He had a rogue using grey daggers to stack it on him. The rogue went through several daggers. I believe Canen had in the area of 950 Reckon charges are on him. He then went and one shot Kazzak. Personally, my favorite bug was the Geddon Bomb. A warlock could get his pet with the bomb, put him away, then release him at a later date. There are several videos of Warlocks releasing the Bomb in the Auction Houses, and Ive done it myself. It was good fun.
Thanks for the clarification. Sorry, I never heard of it. Was not a major problem from my recollection.
By the way, the warlock pet bomb bug, if anything made the game better. LOL I was actualled killed a couple times by this bug and thought it was hilarious. And I believe that bug was introduced with Zul'Gurub, about 9 months after launch and was quickly squashed.
Bugs are bugs. Doesn't matter if they are minor and major. Oh really? And you can support this theory?
Theory? What part. I merely stated that a bug is a bug, regardless on if it is minor or major. What I stated as a matter of fact. They deter from the enjoyment of the game. A minor bug does, yes. A major bug doesn't deter from the enjoyment of the game, it prevents you from playing it at all. Most people can live with minor bugs although it is frustrating because you're enjoying the game except for the bugs. Major bugs are game breakers and people stop playing the game altogether.
Depends on what you view as a major bug. To me, the NE Feral Druid range bug was a major bug. It made my enjoyment less, but it didn't cause me to quit the game World of Warcraft wasn't as smooth as people say. Who said it was smooth? No one is saying that WoW's launch was smooth. There's a lot of people though claiming that the launch was bad, which it wasn't. It was about on par with most launches which aren't that smooth. And we're only talking about the launch, not a month down the road when most of the issues had been ironed out and the game was terrific.
The launch of WoW was good, but it wasn't the best launch. WAR had a better lauch in terms of stability. I stated the fact that WoW is quite solid now because MOST players didn't play WoW when it 1st came out. Consider that WoW just now hit 11mil, they didn't have that # when it was 1st released. So stating that the game is better now than it was at release is a valid statement. Especially since people keep saying "WoW is more stable than WAR".... It had its problems. All the new players have had the luxary of entering a game that is relatively stable with very few bugs. However, doesn't necessarily make it "better." Better is a matter of perspective and opinion. Agreed, so what difference does it make that WoW's launch wasn't smooth? None. The game was solid. Their were some initial problems at launch, but it didn't take away from the fact that the game was terrific otherwise.
I really won't comment on the game being terrific. When I 1st tried WoW, when it was released, I found the game overly simplified and boring. I later bought the game (3 months before BC) and enjoyed it. Again, you're stating an opinion. In your opinion the game was terrific at release. That is no different than my opinion that WAR is terrific (at release) It is my opinion that WoW is a wonderful PvE game. WAR is a wonderful PvP game, and will get better in that regards. Why is it that War fans are so afraid to compare War PvE to WoW PvE? I'm not afraid to compare WoW PvP with War's PvP. It's nearly as good in my opinion right now and when WoTLK launches, I think it will be better than War's. What about PvE? War's doesn't compare with WoW's. It just doesn't. Even War fans will admit that. Most of them anyway.
I'm surprise you didn't read into this one. I said WoW was a wonderful PvE game, then stated that WAR was a wonderful PvP game. If you read into my words, you could say that WoW PvE > WAR PvE, and WAR PvP > WoW PvP. As far as WoW getting better in PvP? I disagree. They are adding another Battleground, and expanding on their already boring Arena system. So I guess I better say this for the record: WAR PVE SUCKS. Happy? Most players in WoW are "new" to the MMO genre. Sure, there are a few old timers like myself that are playing/played the game, but the vast majority are young pups. To them, WoW is the crown jewel of the MMO market. To them, it is blasphemy to even mention another game in the same sentece as WoW. Most of them have probably never heard of EQ or UO. Arguing with their kind is a failed endeavor. But there are also a lot of us old timers that HAVE played MMO's prior to WoW and think WoW is the best. We have played these older MMO's, like DAoC, EQ, UO or whatever else you want to throw out and we've decided that while those games were good, WoW is better. Things change. Genre's change. Just because EQ or UO or DAoC had something good going on at one point in time, that doesn't mean that anything new can't be better. And if DAoC or EQ or UO were better than WoW, than why did WoW become so much more popular than their successors? EQ2 didn't do nearly as well as WoW and it was released at essentially the same time and War has just been released and a lot of the people who have played WoW have at least given a look at War and it's not seeing the success that WoW did. Richard Garriot's Tabula Rasa has been anything but impressive. How do you explain the fact that games by the same developers that gave us EQ, UO and DAoC have not been able to wrestle away the crowd that's formed around WoW?
When comparing WoW with other fundamentally PvE games, WoW is indeed better. However, better again, is a matter of opinion. The reason why other developers can't wrestle away the top spot from WoW? I could give a thesis on this. I'll sum it up though. Different demographic of gamers. If you compare EQ then to WoW now, the demographic of gamers is different. EQ appealed to a different type of gamer. Back then, 13 year olds playing EQ was rare. EQ had a slightly higher learning curve than what WoW has. WoW allows young kids to play. It allows adults who've never touched a computer game to play. Lets not forget about the fanboism of the Warcraft Lore. The Warcraft Strategy games are wonderful. Aside from all these, WoW took ideas from the major games at the time, and either borrowed them completely or improved on them. As such, they took the core concept of games and made it better. So, you now have a game that is readily accessible to more players with the features of other games. Solid game ehh?
WoW is benefiting from the success of other games and their concepts. Because of this, they are the most popular game on the market. 11mil subscriptions and all that jazz. However, WoW has been at the top for far too long. The market is becoming luke warm with WoW and everyone else. This needs to stop. WAR is the best competition WoW has ever had. Will WAR beat WoW? Heck no. I could give you another wonderful spew of stuff saying how WAR appeals to a different type of gamer (hard-core PvP), while WoW is more "PvE" and casual PvP oriented.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Bugs are bugs. Doesn't matter if they are minor and major. Oh really? And you can support this theory?
Theory? What part. I merely stated that a bug is a bug, regardless on if it is minor or major. What I stated as a matter of fact. It sure as heck matters to me, so it sure as heck ISN'T a fact that it doesn't matter. They deter from the enjoyment of the game. A minor bug does, yes. A major bug doesn't deter from the enjoyment of the game, it prevents you from playing it at all. Most people can live with minor bugs although it is frustrating because you're enjoying the game except for the bugs. Major bugs are game breakers and people stop playing the game altogether.
Depends on what you view as a major bug. To me, the NE Feral Druid range bug was a major bug. It made my enjoyment less, but it didn't cause me to quit the game I thought you just said above that it doesn't matter? Now you're saying it does matter? Which is it? According to you EVERYTHING is a MAJOR bug, there's no such thing as a MINOR bug. World of Warcraft wasn't as smooth as people say. Who said it was smooth? No one is saying that WoW's launch was smooth. There's a lot of people though claiming that the launch was bad, which it wasn't. It was about on par with most launches which aren't that smooth. And we're only talking about the launch, not a month down the road when most of the issues had been ironed out and the game was terrific.
The launch of WoW was good, but it wasn't the best launch. WAR had a better lauch in terms of stability. I stated the fact that WoW is quite solid now because MOST players didn't play WoW when it 1st came out. Consider that WoW just now hit 11mil, they didn't have that # when it was 1st released. So stating that the game is better now than it was at release is a valid statement. Especially since people keep saying "WoW is more stable than WAR".... Agree that WoW's launch was good but not great and that War's was better. The fact that MOST players didn't play WoW when it first came out is irrelevent. About as many played WoW at launch as played War at launch, couple hundred thousand. The fact that WoW has managed to increase that number by 10 million doesn't change the fact that those who DID play WoW at launch enjoyed it for the most part. Few people left the game because of the launch. And no you can't say that just because WoW increased it's numbers by 10 million means it's a better game now. It just means that 10 million people didn't start playing the game at launch and found out later that it was good. I don't see a lot of people complaining about War's stability. In fact I don't think the OP was necessarily even referring to War. People have been saying that WoW's launch was bad ever since it became popular to bash WoW. Funny, but they WEREN'T saying that about the game when it launched. It had its problems. All the new players have had the luxary of entering a game that is relatively stable with very few bugs. However, doesn't necessarily make it "better." Better is a matter of perspective and opinion. Agreed, so what difference does it make that WoW's launch wasn't smooth? None. The game was solid. Their were some initial problems at launch, but it didn't take away from the fact that the game was terrific otherwise.
I really won't comment on the game being terrific. When I 1st tried WoW, when it was released, I found the game overly simplified and boring. I later bought the game (3 months before BC) and enjoyed it. Again, you're stating an opinion. In your opinion the game was terrific at release. That is no different than my opinion that WAR is terrific (at release) This isn't about War. War's release has been very good. It is my opinion that WoW is a wonderful PvE game. WAR is a wonderful PvP game, and will get better in that regards. Why is it that War fans are so afraid to compare War PvE to WoW PvE? I'm not afraid to compare WoW PvP with War's PvP. It's nearly as good in my opinion right now and when WoTLK launches, I think it will be better than War's. What about PvE? War's doesn't compare with WoW's. It just doesn't. Even War fans will admit that. Most of them anyway.
I'm surprise you didn't read into this one. I said WoW was a wonderful PvE game, then stated that WAR was a wonderful PvP game. If you read into my words, you could say that WoW PvE > WAR PvE, and WAR PvP > WoW PvP. As far as WoW getting better in PvP? I disagree. They are adding another Battleground, and expanding on their already boring Arena system. So I guess I better say this for the record: WAR PVE SUCKS. Happy? No because you are ignoring the MAJOR parts of what is being added with WoTLK. What about flying vehicles, siege weapons, destructable buildings, anti-siege defenses? All of that is being ADDED in the expansion. How can you possibly not agree it's getting better? Most players in WoW are "new" to the MMO genre. Sure, there are a few old timers like myself that are playing/played the game, but the vast majority are young pups. To them, WoW is the crown jewel of the MMO market. To them, it is blasphemy to even mention another game in the same sentece as WoW. Most of them have probably never heard of EQ or UO. Arguing with their kind is a failed endeavor. But there are also a lot of us old timers that HAVE played MMO's prior to WoW and think WoW is the best. We have played these older MMO's, like DAoC, EQ, UO or whatever else you want to throw out and we've decided that while those games were good, WoW is better. Things change. Genre's change. Just because EQ or UO or DAoC had something good going on at one point in time, that doesn't mean that anything new can't be better. And if DAoC or EQ or UO were better than WoW, than why did WoW become so much more popular than their successors? EQ2 didn't do nearly as well as WoW and it was released at essentially the same time and War has just been released and a lot of the people who have played WoW have at least given a look at War and it's not seeing the success that WoW did. Richard Garriot's Tabula Rasa has been anything but impressive. How do you explain the fact that games by the same developers that gave us EQ, UO and DAoC have not been able to wrestle away the crowd that's formed around WoW?
When comparing WoW with other fundamentally PvE games, WoW is indeed better. However, better again, is a matter of opinion. The reason why other developers can't wrestle away the top spot from WoW? I could give a thesis on this. I'll sum it up though. Different demographic of gamers. If you compare EQ then to WoW now, the demographic of gamers is different. EQ appealed to a different type of gamer. Back then, 13 year olds playing EQ was rare. EQ had a slightly higher learning curve than what WoW has. WoW allows young kids to play. It allows adults who've never touched a computer game to play. Lets not forget about the fanboism of the Warcraft Lore. The Warcraft Strategy games are wonderful. Aside from all these, WoW took ideas from the major games at the time, and either borrowed them completely or improved on them. As such, they took the core concept of games and made it better. So, you now have a game that is readily accessible to more players with the features of other games. Solid game ehh? Well I can't argue with too much you said there although I don't think it has anything to do with age, but I agree that it's a different demographic of players. But don't you think that these developers have been trying to get the WoW demographic to come to their game? You don't think that War has modeled a lot of it's game after what WoW has done to try to encourage them to switch games? Go read the F13 War forums, the one where Mark Jacobs talks about the state of the game and has a good discussion on it. Heck he practically states that they aren't going to change the scenario's because he thinks a large number of the players like the scenario's and this may be because they've come to expect them now coming from WoW. He's smart enough to realize that what's expected in an MMO has changed and it was changed by WoW. If that's where the players are, then damnit that's where the developers are gonna go. Here's a link to a very frank discussion with Mark Jacobs. Not sure how MMORPG feels about linking to other forums, but I'm gonna give it a shot. It's better to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission I always say
i played in beta and the pvp really isnt any better. Flying mount combat really isnt good, not terrible. Open pvp in wintergrasp is ight sorta reminds me of old school AV before they took the fun outta it. But all in all the pvp still is 2nd rate. PVE however they once again knocked it outta the park. sticking with their guns was a good thing imo
I suppose your experience with the opening a AQ was as smooth as silk also. How about Lagerac Valley. Everytime they did a weekly patch Kara turned into a bug fest for about 2 days. Stuck while mining. Left and right server crashes. Alliance standing next to Horde guards in the Hinterlands where you que'd for AB and the guards posing for a photo op. Warcraft has had hundreds of bugs, and Alterac Valley was a lag fest as of when I stopped playing last spring. It has never been anywere polished or smooth even years after release. How about certain class abilities not working correcty forever. Everytime they tried to do any world event the whole friggen world would crash, and the lag was so bad as to be unplayable before the crash. That game has had more bugs then a flea circus.
WoW was so broken at launch that everyone told their friends to come try it out.
Sorry to be sarcastic but games with bad launches (bugs broken content) don't increase thier subs 10 fold almost over night. Wow problems were that Blizzard didn't forsee the tremendous demand for it. Every game company wishes they could have the same problems as WoW.
I will agree, WOW was a pretty good game but, it has had its' issues through the years.
Beginning with launch and through the fisrt year here were some major issues.
Most of those server problems were not because of overcrowding, the servors were just bad. That's the reason why they started to virtually rebuild and upgrade everyone about 8 months later.
Haven't heard anyone mention the Mage blink bug, blink and fall through the world and die. Happened often and was around for about 5 months. Major bug, a Mage had a choice, stand and die or blink and possibly die. I played a mage.
Paladin reckoning bomb was a serious bug, ask any Horde who went up against a Pally. Also the Crusader seal bug, increased damage over time instead of diminishing returns. I played a Paladin.
Warriors were so upset from the nerfs they got in the first few months making them easy targets that they staged a warrior event and crashed one of the servers. Class balance was a major issue.
Actually for the first few days on Illidan about all that worked was fishing.
You could die and not rez at the spirit healer, had to reboot.
The ship would disappear in the middle of the voyage and you would drown.
Hunter pets were bugged, virtually useless.
Server rollbacks, servers down for days. Still happened years later on some servers. CTD's, disconnects were not uncommon
World server crashes after every patch, unable to log in. Uusally took a couple of weeks to straighten them out. Seems like this just happened with the recent patch last month also.
In my first half year of play I received close to 20 free days becuase of playability issues.
I could go on and on. Many of these were major issues. See line above on free days.
If you played from launch and don't remember some of these, I don't know what to say to you. I played on 5 servers and these problems were present on all of them.
Wow's launch was not that pretty, but after time things got slowly better, not in the first month as some have indicated, but over time. It was not one of the better launches.
I played Wow for 3 and a half years, just got WOW'ed out.
i was there at WoW launch and let me tell you.... IT WAS NOT THE WORST LAUNCH I HAVE EVER SEEN.
issues that i noticed.
1) the annoying loot bug were you would stay bent over ready to take stuff up the butt. i think this was caused by server lag.
2) server lag, this was cause by the unprecidented amount of subs they recieved. if you played on a low pop server you didnt even get some of these so called bugs.
3) i fell through the world a few times, maybe 3, wasnt that big a deal.
4) the waiting ques were annoying. this was only because you had guilds from other games all trying to join the same pvp server to beat each other down. after a few days of the long ques, guilds switched servers and things became ok.
5) server crashes sometimes. we once went pvping in orgimar and were getting camped at the graveyard. we had about 25 people pop this trinket from stratholm http://thottbot.com/i13515 it crashed the whole server.
wow had no bugs that i noticed that made me want to not play at all, or was unable to play.
it was FUN! people who complain about WoW at launch are just insecure about what they want, and are dissapointed in every mmo that comes out because they dont remember how to enjoy mmo's anymore. a good metaphore would be this:
you used to date a girl/boy named WoW. you thought WoW was the perfect mate, you had your ups and downs but hung around as long as you could. in the end you separated because it was time for you to move on. you still think about them from time to time. every other mate thats come along, your just not satisfied with. you find flaws in them, comparing them to WoW. you then forget what it was you wanted in a mate. you try to go back to Wow, but it doesnt feel the same. you feel like your forcing yourself to do this and thats not what you want.this causes frustration. your frustration turns to anger,because your not sure how to be happy anymore. your anger turns to hate, because it was WoW's fault for you not being happy with anyone else. so you trash WoW, and try to deter anyone else who might want to try dating her. your now just a shell filled with hate. your waiting for a good mate to make you forget about WoW, but your hate is not allowing you to have fun around any other mate, or even give them a chance really. you end up never finding another solid mate. you spend the rest of your life jumping from mate to mate, till one day.. you become CELEBATE!!!!!
this actually happens in relationships with real humans, fairly often actually.
Well people didn't have the same expectations back at WOW release. There was a lot of issues, but the players wasn't as demanding as we are nowdays from an mmorpg. Mostly because WOW's progress during the years. It has become quite polished, and now most people compare all other mmo's with just WOW.
There was lots of unfinished quests and silithus wasn't near done. Talents didn't work and so on, but hey it still was very playable when noone tried to do a pvp raid. And server crashed But most problems blizzard has had is server/network related, crashing, high latency in their internal net. It still felt as a really good game back then, even thought the problems, which they usually corrected quite fast. But it's not for nothing they got famous for the "Working as intended" phrase
Well my char will see the light of day once more this week to prepare for lich king. I just hope we will see a great sandbox mmo once more, atleast in my lifetime.
WoW launch was terrible. Hell, Blizz even gave us free game time because of how unplayable the game was. It annoyed me the most that it came out over Thanksgiving break and you could only play WoW if you got lucky.
WoW was a victim of its success... who knows what the game would've been like if it had a "normal" launch with an average number of subs.. but they have what they have, and they fixed it as best they could. So when new games come out extremely polished (LOTRO for example), these games are the new standard for how games should be released, even though WoW is the big boy *now*.
Most of those server problems were not because of overcrowding, the servors were just bad. That's the reason why they started to virtually rebuild and upgrade everyone about 8 months later. Actually the reverse is true. One of the reasons for the initial server server crashes was because they literally had to double the number of servers overnight at launch to match demand. Anytime you have that many servers with little to no testing them in advance there are gonna be issues. And then when they started to upgrade the existing servers to allow more capacity, they in turn had issues related to the upgrades. Haven't heard anyone mention the Mage blink bug, blink and fall through the world and die. Happened often and was around for about 5 months. Major bug, a Mage had a choice, stand and die or blink and possibly die. I played a mage. Played a Mage from release and never once had this happen to me. I don't even remember it being talked about by anyone. Must have been very rare. Paladin reckoning bomb was a serious bug, ask any Horde who went up against a Pally. Also the Crusader seal bug, increased damage over time instead of diminishing returns. I played a Paladin. I remember it being a problem, but was not all that familiar with it since I played Alliance. If I recall correctly it was fixed fairly quickly. Warriors were so upset from the nerfs they got in the first few months making them easy targets that they staged a warrior event and crashed one of the servers. Class balance was a major issue. Warrior were indeed pretty unbalanced to begin with, but that's not really a bug, it's a balance issue that had to be worked out. If you are gonna call balance issues bugs then Warhammer was one of the buggiest games at release I've ever seen because the balance in that game was/is terrible. Balance issues take a while to be identified and corrected. That's normal. Actually for the first few days on Illidan about all that worked was fishing. If you say so. You could die and not rez at the spirit healer, had to reboot. Was very rare. Never happened to me. The ship would disappear in the middle of the voyage and you would drown. Was very rare. Never happened to me. Hunter pets were bugged, virtually useless. In what way? Never had a problem with my Hunter pet. Server rollbacks, servers down for days. Still happened years later on some servers. CTD's, disconnects were not uncommon Disconnects were pretty common, but not CTD. Only time I ever had problems with CTD's were right after patches from time to time. And for disconnects it was really hard to make the determination if the problem was on Blizzard's end or on your end. I get disconnected from a lot of online games on a fairly regular basis. I contribute that mostly to just general internet problems. Surely some of that was Blizzard's fault, but not all of it. World server crashes after every patch, unable to log in. Uusally took a couple of weeks to straighten them out. Seems like this just happened with the recent patch last month also. You are so exxagerating it's unbelievable. Every patch? I think not. Couple of weeks? Sorry, every once in a while they'd have to hotfix like a day later. Patch day just recently was pretty bad, but everything was pretty much back to normal by the next day. In my first half year of play I received close to 20 free days becuase of playability issues. Me too and I thought that was extremely generous of Blizzard. I probably missed no more than a day or 2 of play time total in that first 6 months. I could go on and on. Many of these were major issues. See line above on free days. Like I said, they were very generous. They gave everyone several days whenever there was a major issue even if it only effected a small percentage of the population. And you are talking about over the first 6 to 12 months of the game, not the launch which is the issue here. You are talking about bugs that have crept into the game over a 4 year period, not just the launch. If you played from launch and don't remember some of these, I don't know what to say to you. I played on 5 servers and these problems were present on all of them. I remember most of them and they were very rare in most cases. Only a few of them were repeatable types of things and were major problems and they were fixed quickly in most cases. LIke I have said before, the biggest bug I ran into was the mining node problem and yes it did take them a long time to figure that one out. That's one major problem that effected only 1 profession and only certain nodes that people learned to avoid. The only other thing that I really even remember causing me any frustration was the loot lag issue and it was more an annoyance than anything else. I don't even know if I would call that a bug, it just needed to be improved. Kinda like the mail issue that Warhammer had at launch. Wow's launch was not that pretty, but after time things got slowly better, not in the first month as some have indicated, but over time. It was not one of the better launches. Every game has issues at launch. That's not the issue. The issue is does it affect your enjoyment of the game and does it cause you to quit playing? Very few people quit playing WoW at launch because of the issues. In fact the game became a huge sensation and most people told their friends to go get the game. This is surprising for a game with so many issues according to you. Compare that to Vanguard and AoC. The problems those games had caused many people to quit playing. I played Wow for 3 and a half years, just got WOW'ed out. So obviously things weren't so bad that you quit.
Comments
here's your proof:
That was added September 27, 2006 and the video is no longer viewable. What exactly does this prove? Was this the video where the lvl 70 toon solo'd Onyxia in like 3 hours or something? That wasn't a bug and it certainly wasn't even remotely possible at launch since you couldn't get to 70 until the expansion. Kazzak wasn't in till March, about 4 months after release.
It was the reckoning bug that I was thinking about, but while not in right at launch it was a major bug.
www.youtube.com/watch
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
here's your proof:
That was added September 27, 2006 and the video is no longer viewable. What exactly does this prove? Was this the video where the lvl 70 toon solo'd Onyxia in like 3 hours or something? That wasn't a bug and it certainly wasn't even remotely possible at launch since you couldn't get to 70 until the expansion. Kazzak wasn't in till March, about 4 months after release.
Funny that i just watched the video so i guess it is viewable.
Except for the loot bug, these were all very MINOR problems. And the loot bug was more annoying than anything, it didn't cause any real issues, just took you several seconds to loot mobs. A bigger problem you didn't mention were the bugged mining nodes. Now THAT was annoying as you would get stuck in the crouched position and it took a while to get fixed, but people quickly learned to avoid them and a simple logout and login fixed the problem. It was only annoying because of the queues. This I would say was the worst problem it had at launch.
Every game has these types of problems. You're talking about a half a dozen problems within a HUGE game world. Where were the constant crashes to desktop? Where were the 2 FPS in zones? Where were the getting stuck and NOT being able to recover? Where were the losing items from your inventory? Where were the problems that kept you from playing the game? There weren't any. At least I never experienced any and I know no one that I played with experienced any. All the bugs were minor ones that were worked out eventually. And lets not forget the 97 billion (made that up) things that worked perfectly. The few issues it did have were easy to overlook because of everything it did right. THAT'S the difference. It's not the number of problems, it's the number of problems compared to the number of things that work correctly that is important.
The same could be said for other games though too. I never encountered a Bug on LoTRO online. From Alpha all the way through launch.
I never encountered a bug on Dark Age of Camelot at Launch either. (Un-itemized dungeons on the other hand in Hibernia
)
I didn't encounter any on City of Heroes either.
My main point was that World of Warcraft is looked so favorably on mainly due to people starting with a much more polished product then any other MMO.
That makes a huge difference.
Don't get me wrong I thought World of Warcraft was a good game. A game worth 4 years of playing? Nah but it was an excellent game. It just doesn't have much in the way of depth in my opinion.
Of the 42+ mmo games I have played/tested I would place in in the top 10. Maybe even the top 5.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Captain Placeholder was my favorite
It's double standards what it is.
here's your proof:
That was added September 27, 2006 and the video is no longer viewable. What exactly does this prove? Was this the video where the lvl 70 toon solo'd Onyxia in like 3 hours or something? That wasn't a bug and it certainly wasn't even remotely possible at launch since you couldn't get to 70 until the expansion. Kazzak wasn't in till March, about 4 months after release.
Funny that i just watched the video so i guess it is viewable.
Must be on your harddrive, because when I try to pull it up, it say "Were sorry, this video is no longer available".
Except for the loot bug, these were all very MINOR problems. And the loot bug was more annoying than anything, it didn't cause any real issues, just took you several seconds to loot mobs. A bigger problem you didn't mention were the bugged mining nodes. Now THAT was annoying as you would get stuck in the crouched position and it took a while to get fixed, but people quickly learned to avoid them and a simple logout and login fixed the problem. It was only annoying because of the queues. This I would say was the worst problem it had at launch.
Every game has these types of problems. You're talking about a half a dozen problems within a HUGE game world. Where were the constant crashes to desktop? Where were the 2 FPS in zones? Where were the getting stuck and NOT being able to recover? Where were the losing items from your inventory? Where were the problems that kept you from playing the game? There weren't any. At least I never experienced any and I know no one that I played with experienced any. All the bugs were minor ones that were worked out eventually. And lets not forget the 97 billion (made that up) things that worked perfectly. The few issues it did have were easy to overlook because of everything it did right. THAT'S the difference. It's not the number of problems, it's the number of problems compared to the number of things that work correctly that is important.
The same could be said for other games though too. I never encountered a Bug on LoTRO online. From Alpha all the way through launch.
I never encountered a bug on Dark Age of Camelot at Launch either. (Un-itemized dungeons on the other hand in Hibernia
)
I didn't encounter any on City of Heroes either.
My main point was that World of Warcraft is looked so favorably on mainly due to people starting with a much more polished product then any other MMO.
That makes a huge difference.
Don't get me wrong I thought World of Warcraft was a good game. A game worth 4 years of playing? Nah but it was an excellent game. It just doesn't have much in the way of depth in my opinion.
Of the 42+ mmo games I have played/tested I would place in in the top 10. Maybe even the top 5.
All of the games you mentioned had fairly good launches. Compare that to some games with poor launches. Vanguard had TONS of problems that made the game nearly unplayable. It wouldn't run on a lot of PC's faster than a few frames per second. Many couldn't even get it to start up. There were tons of broken quests. There were lots of crashes to desktop, etc. THESE are MAJOR problems. Sorry, but because vanish didn't ALWAYS work right, is NOT a MAJOR problem.
here's your proof:
That was added September 27, 2006 and the video is no longer viewable. What exactly does this prove? Was this the video where the lvl 70 toon solo'd Onyxia in like 3 hours or something? That wasn't a bug and it certainly wasn't even remotely possible at launch since you couldn't get to 70 until the expansion. Kazzak wasn't in till March, about 4 months after release.
there is a pali ability that procced extra swings when they get hit(its in the prot tree forget its name atm) it use to stack, some guy went out and grabbed a bunch of lvl 1 mobs had it stacked like 1000 times and when he went in there all 1000 hits went off in one swing ko'd ony
The only reason why WoW had line/lag on release was because they didint release enough server . 2 Days after release they relaased a bunch of other server i re rolled on one and all the Q/lag was gone .
So the only thing that wow was lacking when it came out was end game content but by the time i was 60 they had released mc/bgs/more end game polish .
Bugs are bugs. Doesn't matter if they are minor and major. They deter from the enjoyment of the game. World of Warcraft wasn't as smooth as people say. It had its problems. All the new players have had the luxary of entering a game that is relatively stable with very few bugs. However, doesn't necessarily make it "better." Better is a matter of perspective and opinion. It is my opinion that WoW is a wonderful PvE game. WAR is a wonderful PvP game, and will get better in that regards.
Like other posters, I've either played or beta tested many games. In terms of enjoyment, WoW is in the top 5. But it isn't #1.
#1. DDO
#2. Shadowbane
#3. WoW
#4. EQ (Base EQ up to PoP)
#5. Warhammer
After that, comes a long list of game: SWG, Lineage 2, EQ2, Eve, Auto Assault, CoH/CoV, DAoC, UO. The list goes on. Some of these I beta tested. Of the ones I've beta tested, only 2 or 3 had solid releases; with minimal downtime and bugs. The worst release was Shadowbane, but I enjoyed the game enough to ignore some of the issues.
Most players in WoW are "new" to the MMO genre. Sure, there are a few old timers like myself that are playing/played the game, but the vast majority are young pups. To them, WoW is the crown jewel of the MMO market. To them, it is blasphemy to even mention another game in the same sentece as WoW. Most of them have probably never heard of EQ or UO. Arguing with their kind is a failed endeavor.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
The Reckoning Bug that is being referred to as a "Reckon Bomb". It wasnt some pally soloing Onyxia for 3 hours, it was an exploitable bug.
The Reckon Bomb was used to Solo Doom Lord Kazzak in Blasted Lands on the server Mannoroth. the Paladins name was Canen. It's still talked about on our server from time to time.
Basically, with the way Reckoning worked, when the Paladin was hit with a melee weapon, he would gain a "charge" that was released on the next melee swing. The bug was that if you didnt swing your weapon, the charges kept stacking.
It took Canen roughly 4 hours I believe to stack his Reckon Bomb. He had a rogue using grey daggers to stack it on him. The rogue went through several daggers. I believe Canen had in the area of 950 Reckon charges are on him. He then went and one shot Kazzak.
Personally, my favorite bug was the Geddon Bomb. A warlock could get his pet with the bomb, put him away, then release him at a later date. There are several videos of Warlocks releasing the Bomb in the Auction Houses, and Ive done it myself. It was good fun.
Must be something wrong your end Pappy I just watched the video the guy linked as well. It doesnt' say anything about Onyxia either its a video of a paladin one shot soloing Kazzak like the others said.
I'll check again from home, perhaps the firewall here at work is blocking it, but I've watched other stuff at youtube before from work. The only reason I mentioned the Onyxia video is because some of the other video's were about Onyxia and Onyxia was in at launch. Kazzak was not in the game at launch, so there's no way someone solo'd Kazzak at launch, therefore it could not have been a bug that was introduced at launch. And if the video shows a lvl 70 soloing Kazzak, just what does that have to do with the launch when BC didn't come out till 2 years later?
Thanks for the clarification. Sorry, I never heard of it. Was not a major problem from my recollection.
By the way, the warlock pet bomb bug, if anything made the game better. LOL I was actualled killed a couple times by this bug and thought it was hilarious. And I believe that bug was introduced with Zul'Gurub, about 9 months after launch and was quickly squashed.
WoW is benefiting from the success of other games and their concepts. Because of this, they are the most popular game on the market. 11mil subscriptions and all that jazz. However, WoW has been at the top for far too long. The market is becoming luke warm with WoW and everyone else. This needs to stop. WAR is the best competition WoW has ever had. Will WAR beat WoW? Heck no. I could give you another wonderful spew of stuff saying how WAR appeals to a different type of gamer (hard-core PvP), while WoW is more "PvE" and casual PvP oriented.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
WoW is benefiting from the success of other games and their concepts.
And War is benefitting from WoW, but no where near to the same extent.
i played in beta and the pvp really isnt any better. Flying mount combat really isnt good, not terrible. Open pvp in wintergrasp is ight sorta reminds me of old school AV before they took the fun outta it. But all in all the pvp still is 2nd rate. PVE however they once again knocked it outta the park. sticking with their guns was a good thing imo
I suppose your experience with the opening a AQ was as smooth as silk also. How about Lagerac Valley. Everytime they did a weekly patch Kara turned into a bug fest for about 2 days. Stuck while mining. Left and right server crashes. Alliance standing next to Horde guards in the Hinterlands where you que'd for AB and the guards posing for a photo op. Warcraft has had hundreds of bugs, and Alterac Valley was a lag fest as of when I stopped playing last spring. It has never been anywere polished or smooth even years after release. How about certain class abilities not working correcty forever. Everytime they tried to do any world event the whole friggen world would crash, and the lag was so bad as to be unplayable before the crash. That game has had more bugs then a flea circus.
WoW was so broken at launch that everyone told their friends to come try it out.
Sorry to be sarcastic but games with bad launches (bugs broken content) don't increase thier subs 10 fold almost over night. Wow problems were that Blizzard didn't forsee the tremendous demand for it. Every game company wishes they could have the same problems as WoW.
I will agree, WOW was a pretty good game but, it has had its' issues through the years.
Beginning with launch and through the fisrt year here were some major issues.
Most of those server problems were not because of overcrowding, the servors were just bad. That's the reason why they started to virtually rebuild and upgrade everyone about 8 months later.
Haven't heard anyone mention the Mage blink bug, blink and fall through the world and die. Happened often and was around for about 5 months. Major bug, a Mage had a choice, stand and die or blink and possibly die. I played a mage.
Paladin reckoning bomb was a serious bug, ask any Horde who went up against a Pally. Also the Crusader seal bug, increased damage over time instead of diminishing returns. I played a Paladin.
Warriors were so upset from the nerfs they got in the first few months making them easy targets that they staged a warrior event and crashed one of the servers. Class balance was a major issue.
Actually for the first few days on Illidan about all that worked was fishing.
You could die and not rez at the spirit healer, had to reboot.
The ship would disappear in the middle of the voyage and you would drown.
Hunter pets were bugged, virtually useless.
Server rollbacks, servers down for days. Still happened years later on some servers. CTD's, disconnects were not uncommon
World server crashes after every patch, unable to log in. Uusally took a couple of weeks to straighten them out. Seems like this just happened with the recent patch last month also.
In my first half year of play I received close to 20 free days becuase of playability issues.
I could go on and on. Many of these were major issues. See line above on free days.
If you played from launch and don't remember some of these, I don't know what to say to you. I played on 5 servers and these problems were present on all of them.
Wow's launch was not that pretty, but after time things got slowly better, not in the first month as some have indicated, but over time. It was not one of the better launches.
I played Wow for 3 and a half years, just got WOW'ed out.
i was there at WoW launch and let me tell you.... IT WAS NOT THE WORST LAUNCH I HAVE EVER SEEN.
issues that i noticed.
1) the annoying loot bug were you would stay bent over ready to take stuff up the butt. i think this was caused by server lag.
2) server lag, this was cause by the unprecidented amount of subs they recieved. if you played on a low pop server you didnt even get some of these so called bugs.
3) i fell through the world a few times, maybe 3, wasnt that big a deal.
4) the waiting ques were annoying. this was only because you had guilds from other games all trying to join the same pvp server to beat each other down. after a few days of the long ques, guilds switched servers and things became ok.
5) server crashes sometimes. we once went pvping in orgimar and were getting camped at the graveyard. we had about 25 people pop this trinket from stratholm http://thottbot.com/i13515 it crashed the whole server.
wow had no bugs that i noticed that made me want to not play at all, or was unable to play.
it was FUN! people who complain about WoW at launch are just insecure about what they want, and are dissapointed in every mmo that comes out because they dont remember how to enjoy mmo's anymore. a good metaphore would be this:
you used to date a girl/boy named WoW. you thought WoW was the perfect mate, you had your ups and downs but hung around as long as you could. in the end you separated because it was time for you to move on. you still think about them from time to time. every other mate thats come along, your just not satisfied with. you find flaws in them, comparing them to WoW. you then forget what it was you wanted in a mate. you try to go back to Wow, but it doesnt feel the same. you feel like your forcing yourself to do this and thats not what you want.this causes frustration. your frustration turns to anger,because your not sure how to be happy anymore. your anger turns to hate, because it was WoW's fault for you not being happy with anyone else. so you trash WoW, and try to deter anyone else who might want to try dating her. your now just a shell filled with hate. your waiting for a good mate to make you forget about WoW, but your hate is not allowing you to have fun around any other mate, or even give them a chance really. you end up never finding another solid mate. you spend the rest of your life jumping from mate to mate, till one day.. you become CELEBATE!!!!!
this actually happens in relationships with real humans, fairly often actually.
Well people didn't have the same expectations back at WOW release. There was a lot of issues, but the players wasn't as demanding as we are nowdays from an mmorpg. Mostly because WOW's progress during the years. It has become quite polished, and now most people compare all other mmo's with just WOW.
There was lots of unfinished quests and silithus wasn't near done. Talents didn't work and so on, but hey it still was very playable when noone tried to do a pvp raid. And server crashed
But most problems blizzard has had is server/network related, crashing, high latency in their internal net. It still felt as a really good game back then, even thought the problems, which they usually corrected quite fast. But it's not for nothing they got famous for the "Working as intended" phrase 
Well my char will see the light of day once more this week to prepare for lich king. I just hope we will see a great sandbox mmo once more, atleast in my lifetime.
WoW launch was terrible. Hell, Blizz even gave us free game time because of how unplayable the game was. It annoyed me the most that it came out over Thanksgiving break and you could only play WoW if you got lucky.
WoW was a victim of its success... who knows what the game would've been like if it had a "normal" launch with an average number of subs.. but they have what they have, and they fixed it as best they could. So when new games come out extremely polished (LOTRO for example), these games are the new standard for how games should be released, even though WoW is the big boy *now*.