I read until you said that in order to play another pairing's scenario you have to fly there...because that's completely dead wrong, and you are just making shit up to trash the game.
Had you ACTUALLY played the game past 2 weeks of release you would know they changed this, but you didn't. Instead you played for a little bit and then came here to cry like a baby about the stuff that you like in WoW that isn't here.
Guess what? If you like that stuff, play WoW. It's actually a really simple solution.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
WAR clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from WoW
Exactly. Its a shame that many people don't see it.
Just like WOW clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from other games. As a matter of fact, WoW could not even exist if Brad Mcquaid did not come up with the Vision(TM) of raiding. So now the EQ Lite become a creator of things that other people borrow from?
WAR clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from WoW
Exactly. Its a shame that many people don't see it.
Just like WOW clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from other games. As a matter of fact, WoW could not even exist if Brad Mcquaid did not come up with the Vision(TM) of raiding. So now the EQ Lite become a creator of things that other people borrow from?
Sweet another one.. ok ill bite. *pulls out a many paged book with many book marks in it, and opens it.* Ahhh yes... lets see..
War clearly copied many things from WoW. But lets be fair here, what exactly did they borrow? Scratch the levels, everyone has done that.
1. You are practically led to your quest destinations, pretty much how wow did it, shows you right on the mini map who to go to, where to find them etc.
2. Combat system is the same in reguards to button mashing skills. Which inst a bad thing mind you.. just showing you how its like WoW (which by the way i dont play any more, its too much raid).. moving on!
3. You know the flags in rvr areas, some of the scenarios, they work just as they did in wow... nothing really new like, go burn down this house or something a bit more innovative...
4. Speaking of scenarios... they feel just like wow's BG's. So much its boggling. Hell.... the score card at the end is EXACTLY how Wow does it... colors and all! Even the skulls and birds at the top. Moving on...
5. They borrow wows wonderful tactic of repeating the same scenery. (i like to call it the flintstones effect) For instance... in WoW the inn in redridge is just like the one in elwyn forest. And just like WoW, In war, the "Inn" or tavern if you wish.. is pasted all over festenplatz.. the harvest shrine.. oh hell lets just say Nordland and get it over with. But seriously.. how many times can one turn around a house in festenplatz before one needs to create a new one?
6. The skill trees are a dead rip off of WoW... minus the fact that they are much smaller.. but its obvious where they got the idea from.
7. The act of having named beasts every mile or so. Aka heros of whatever they represent. Like named wolves... etc.. which inst a bad thing.. but at least they could make it drop something So really its just a dumbed down version.
I could go on nitpicking bit i think im done for now... you get my point. Or.. at least you should.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
WAR clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from WoW
Exactly. Its a shame that many people don't see it.
Just like WOW clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from other games. As a matter of fact, WoW could not even exist if Brad Mcquaid did not come up with the Vision(TM) of raiding. So now the EQ Lite become a creator of things that other people borrow from?
Sweet another one.. ok ill bite. *pulls out a many paged book with many book marks in it, and opens it.* Ahhh yes... lets see..
War clearly copied many things from WoW. But lets be fair here, what exactly did they borrow? Scratch the levels, everyone has done that.
1. You are practically led to your quest destinations, pretty much how wow did it, shows you right on the mini map who to go to, where to find them etc.
2. Combat system is the same in reguards to button mashing skills. Which inst a bad thing mind you.. just showing you how its like WoW (which by the way i dont play any more, its too much raid).. moving on!
3. You know the flags in rvr areas, some of the scenarios, they work just as they did in wow... nothing really new like, go burn down this house or something a bit more innovative...
4. Speaking of scenarios... they feel just like wow's BG's. So much its boggling. Hell.... the score card at the end is EXACTLY how Wow does it... colors and all! Even the skulls and birds at the top. Moving on...
5. They borrow wows wonderful tactic of repeating the same scenery. (i like to call it the flintstones effect) For instance... in WoW the inn in redridge is just like the one in elwyn forest. And just like WoW, In war, the "Inn" or tavern if you wish.. is pasted all over festenplatz.. the harvest shrine.. oh hell lets just say Nordland and get it over with. But seriously.. how many times can one turn around a house in festenplatz before one needs to create a new one?
6. The skill trees are a dead rip off of WoW... minus the fact that they are much smaller.. but its obvious where they got the idea from.
7. The act of having named beasts every mile or so. Aka heros of whatever they represent. Like named wolves... etc.. which inst a bad thing.. but at least they could make it drop something So really its just a dumbed down version.
I could go on nitpicking bit i think im done for now... you get my point. Or.. at least you should.
Ahh, well. Point by point. Excellent. Shall we take the comparison further?
1. In WOW, your quest gives you a general idea where things are. So general in fact at times, I had to refer to an outside website to make sure I am in the right area. in WAR, they give you a good hint on the boarders of the area you need to get to. Also, I think it is worth mentioning, they took out ALOT of the travel time sink quests, kill quests that you might get what you are looking for one out of 5 kills...if you are lucky, so yes, similar, but they did try to improve things. Is it took "easy" or "simplified" compared to the WOW quests, that's personal preference. So in generalities, yes, they are similar, but there is just as many differences.
2. Buttom mashing. Again, a general term, but here's something to concider. Combat has several different factors added to it than just "Button Mashing" You have tactics, passive bonuses that you select to help you, moral skills, a new ability that is generated over the duration of combat, knockback, a new type of ability for players and last butnot least, collision detection that adds a new dimention to the combat where positioning does become more of an issue. Not to forget those combat skills all have different uses, advance with you and some even are specific positionals (more so than WOW). SO just using the term "button Mashing" does nothing to discuss the similarities/differences.
3. Capture the flag is a mechanic used in FPS alot too. This is a widespread mechanic (heck, even existed in games before computers mind you!) The fact they use a common mechanic used across many types of games does not make or break it being a "clone". Next you will be saying the fact there is chat, avatars,mounts and heaven forbid gold in both games, WAR must be the clone!
4. Ahhh Feeling, nothing but feelings...I could sing all night, but we are here to discuss things. Most WOW battleground mechanics originally were inspired by alot of FPS games. Again, not a WOW original, but something more widespread. The scorecard I can give you but here's a more interresting question. How would you make it different, but still keep it meaningful to those who play and have expectations? Very little can be changed in that department.
5. Ahhh, cloning scenery. How much effort does one put into making terrain different? A good question. How much is enough? Do you require all games to make each building or tree to be unique and is this an expectation you have? I do have a friend in the compter gaming industry. I'll ask him how long it takes to render an individual building, from beginning to end. You give me how many different buildings you concider sufficient in an MMO, we multiply those numbers and see how realistic your expectation is when making a game...
6. Skill trees, another fun discussion. There's a catch, the fuction much differently between the games. In WOW, each tree does minor changes to skills you have, give you new skills, stats and other factors. In WAR, each point you put into a path Mastery buffes the 5-6 skills it is attached to in addition to unlocking other abilities, wether it be skills, tactics or morale, each one with a different fuction that scales up as you level, meaning you do not have to "relearn" it to make it more effective. How many times do you have to choose the same advancement in WOW? 1-5 per each one?
7. Named characters. You want buildings to be individual, but if it is creatures, it's a bad thing unless it has a special reward for you to get when you kill it? When I scavenge from them, I do note I tend to get better materials to craft with from them. Just because they do not have "Uber armour 1000" for you as a drop, does not mean they do not have a use. Odds are they belong to a quest you have overlooked here or there.
Generally this game isn't as bad as most people make it out to be. That being said as a MMORPG game, it is an inferior game to WoW in most levels. So why spend money to play an inferior game.
Scenarios mostly promote turtles. If you like hanging around waiting for the opposition to come up then by all means, but it punishes offence. Think of not one WSG but 6 or 7 of them.
RVR just doesn't work because it doesn't reward enough for most people to try. Also there is too many different zones for RVR to gather people in RVR. Every thing gives experience, so you can't hang around in a active niche.
Crafting is a waste and should be taken right out of the game.
IMHO war atm is like CS, log in killl some ppl log out
u can say war is not for core player and is true is for casual players casual players pay same amount of money like your and dont "hammer the server all day"
WAR!=big challenges on-line for nerds BTW OP u used "wow" more that 35 times
Originally posted by ArcheusCross Sweet another one.. ok ill bite. *pulls out a many paged book with many book marks in it, and opens it.* Ahhh yes... lets see.. War clearly copied many things from WoW. But lets be fair here, what exactly did they borrow? Scratch the levels, everyone has done that. 1. You are practically led to your quest destinations, pretty much how wow did it, shows you right on the mini map who to go to, where to find them etc. 2. Combat system is the same in reguards to button mashing skills. Which inst a bad thing mind you.. just showing you how its like WoW (which by the way i dont play any more, its too much raid).. moving on! 3. You know the flags in rvr areas, some of the scenarios, they work just as they did in wow... nothing really new like, go burn down this house or something a bit more innovative... 4. Speaking of scenarios... they feel just like wow's BG's. So much its boggling. Hell.... the score card at the end is EXACTLY how Wow does it... colors and all! Even the skulls and birds at the top. Moving on... 5. They borrow wows wonderful tactic of repeating the same scenery. (i like to call it the flintstones effect) For instance... in WoW the inn in redridge is just like the one in elwyn forest. And just like WoW, In war, the "Inn" or tavern if you wish.. is pasted all over festenplatz.. the harvest shrine.. oh hell lets just say Nordland and get it over with. But seriously.. how many times can one turn around a house in festenplatz before one needs to create a new one? 6. The skill trees are a dead rip off of WoW... minus the fact that they are much smaller.. but its obvious where they got the idea from. 7. The act of having named beasts every mile or so. Aka heros of whatever they represent. Like named wolves... etc.. which inst a bad thing.. but at least they could make it drop something So really its just a dumbed down version. I could go on nitpicking bit i think im done for now... you get my point. Or.. at least you should.
Trevornor got most of these already but I will add a few more.
Number 2 - Do you know that WOW combat system is almost an exact replica of Everquest combat system? The hate/threat system, the way monster react to damage, cure..., the spell systems, the melee system, the crowd control system, the way your character automatically attack, you hit 1, 2, 3 to execute special ability,... even down to many specific terms were also borrow like 'aggro', 'train', ... hate clearing mechanism like feign death, invisible...
Number 4 - The idea of battleground actually came from DAoC, WOW just took the idea and made it into WOW battleground, even borrowed the name.
Number 5 - That called art asset management, you will see that in any 3D game, not just WoW, or WAR, any. Making different art for every single 3D model in the virtual world is stupid, to improve performance as well as to reduce work for artist, people will reuse art asset as much as they can.
Number 7 - That came from Everquest as well, UO also have pretty similar concept.
Even Epic equipments, Epic quest ideas are borrowed from Everquest. The whole WOW raiding end-game was borrowed from Everquest and umm 'dumbed down', hehe, I could use that word once in a while.
12. There is a lack of immersion in WAR. The only way to get to other zones is to talk to a flight master. Another gripe I have is that there is only one flight master per zone, so if you want to travel, you might be in for a really long run to the nearest flight master
Walls of text are never a good way to present arguments particularly when those walls of text hide incorrect information about the game
Did the OP actually try *walking* between the zones? It is possible, everyone else can do it but evidently the OP couldn't grasp it.
And first they complain about lack of 'immersion' then they whine about needing to run so far to find a flight master when scale of zones is one of the most common request for an 'immersive' game.
The OP needs to make up their mind about what they're complaining about, then actually check their facts and play the game.
Well, I am not going to crit the readers here with the original wall of text, so I will refer to it by number to line up with the original post #1.
1. WOW's combat system is a product of 4 years of final tuning. When WOW was released, it was similarly "unhinged" even though other games were fine tuned by then. It's a growth process all MMOs seem to go through at release. To call it bad after a single month is simply impatient. I would think if you tried any game first month, you will always see some of the "unhinged-ness" until they adapt the code to the player level. I can hear it now "Why wasn't it fixed in beta testing?" Because you test the system in controlled settings to see if it opperates properly. No game tests their coding "uncontrolled". It's how they respond and adapt that matters. Give it time. If that means you stop subscription for 6+ months until it is fixed to your satisfaction, that's your right to do and I personally understand. Will I unsubscribe, heck no because it is just a minor distraction to me.
2. See above.
3. Dungeons. There are several instanced dungeons (Both in the main city and abroad, with others unlocked while sacking the opposing city), and then there are 24 various lairs (open world dungeons) hidden across the landscape. Some require exploring out of the way areas, others are skill jump approaches that remind me of Tomb Raider to get to. Then there is PQs that many call quickie dungeons which number in the hundreds across the landscape. The fact they are not exact duplicates of WOW does not mean they do not exist. so 24 Lairs + 10 for each side (not counting city sacking ones) is 34 dungeons. Is that somehow not enough for you? For your reference, Lairs were ment to suplement dungeons, not PQs.
4. ok, let me get this straight, you buy a game that is designed for RvR/PvP experience and your level of expectation for it's PvE is to be equal or greater than a PvE focused game that has had 4 years to develop? As for the MJ comment, I would love to see it because that type of comment can be taken various ways. Did he ment the amount of content (which I can say I think does rival WOW's) complexities (Which I doubt since this is a RvR game) Polish (unrealistic) or something else? I work customer service, and I know how a person's expectation can color what they read or hear on a daily basis. I would love to see his comment as originally is done so we can see the context of it. WOW's original system was not nearly as complex as it is today.
5. The UI has one thing going for it that WOW's does not, adaptability. Have you even messed with the UI design settings in WAR? Alot of your problems with it are clickable settings within the UI interface menu. We, as players, can adjust the UI in ways it takes a programmer (and a downloaded add on) to modify WOW's. Heck, WOW's original UI went through many changes due to the add on's themselves being greatly superior back in the day, to include the features. Again, this takes time.
6. Here I see we are going to disagree on this topic. I like WAR's design for skills a heck of alot better than WOW's. First, each skill you get has a unique purpose. They also scale up as you level (which also allows the raise in your level for PvP areas) So no new skill will replace another skill, each will have it's use. For the example you list, DPS, My Witch hunter can do burst damage, DOT, stackable DOT, Buff, Debuff, positional attacks, snare, reduce healing effects, silence, self heal, reduce action points and morale. All are builders of accusations, and this list does not include the effects of the executions. BTW, he's only 17th level. If you are calling this list insufficient, I hate to see what your level of expectation is. Also, skills are not the only form of abilities or advancement in the game, unlike WOW. WAR also includes tactics (passive buffs) and morale (abilities you can trigger the longer you are in combat) and gear (which is common to both games). Combine the fact you can actually change both tactics and morale abilities without respecing (and even have tactic combinations preset up to 5) makes for greater adaptability on the fly. As for "uber abilities" I guess you never got level 4 morale ability that fully heals your group (in range)?
7. Character Looks customization does what it needs to do, be fluid in mass combat without severly taxing a server with minute details.
As for skills, I touched on this before, but I will explain plainly here. Advancement in WAR is several ways and mechanisms. Actual abilities are greater in the fact you have not only clickable skills, but also passive abilities from tactics and combat generating abilities in morale. Add to this the advancement set up. in WAR, your skills level with you, removing the need to "retain" them like you do in WOW, that remves what, 80% of the "advancement" in WOW, the fact you have to retain for each rank? Second, the Mastery tree in WAR has additional effects WOW's does not. First is the fact it takes only 1 point to get the ability, because of the scaling. WOW, you have to spend 1-5 points in each to make it fully effective. Second, with WAR, each branch has 5-6 skills attached to it that gets a buff for each point you put in that path. So each point does not just have a single effect, it increases several skills at once. Then we have Renown, something WOW wishes it had. This allows the player to adjust his stats as he levels as well as get new abilities. Meaningful advancement of PvP. We also have Tome unlocks that can give you additional abilities as well. Shall I go on?
8. Here comes some direct proof that makes me doubt you advanced far in WAR, the comment of lack of CC. This greatly differs from the great amount of complaints that are happening that there is TOO much CC in the game.
Second, you obviously do not know end game very well. Each side only has one city to sack, but in order to get there, you have to unlock and capture 2 of the 3 racial fortresses, which needs you to capture the assosiated areas.
Third, your opinion that zergs win battles does not mesh with the uproar that it takes only a few defenders to generally hold off a much larger force trying to assault a keep due to one mechanic you have completely overlooked, collision detection, whcih choke points become a viable tactic a severly outnumbered force can use to great advantage...if they work well enough together. You theory and opinion only matters if both sides only zerg, which they do not all the time. There are many stories and first hand accounts where a well fuctioning small team demolish zergs.
9. From what I have read in tech support, this game relies on the processor and memory levels much more than the graphics card. The graphics cards need to have certain abilities, but in general it seems to under use it. Alot of people in tech support help players get the AA and AF working to it's full potential and the increase in performance is quite good (if that is indeed what is wrong) The engine looks like a new product on the market and refer back to point 1 again about my thoughts on things.
10. Itemization. This does need improvements, but again is no better or worse than most games at release in this department. I have seen PQs drop epics and gold bags before, so they are out there.
Next crafting. It is focused on two things, short term buff and effects (potions) and lower level long term buff and effects (talismans) Instead of breaking those two principles out to X many skills, with a grind component that is obnoxious (which this game has removed for the most part) they made it a side distraction at most intead of another sink to be pursued. The fact the game is not centered around crafting means the game is not centered around grind sinks (wether it be kill grinding, time grinding, money grinding or node grinding) It is about RvR. It also makes it so that to be competitive in RvR or PvP, you do not have to be a grinding god to get leet buffs. (insert bad opinion of twinks in WOW's PvP ruining overall experience for the majority of players, to the point they have to group cross server to make BGs viable)
11. Another sign you have not played this game much or in depth. Many chapter's lowest level rewards are non-expiring talismans, I have gotten non-expiring talisman drops, and some of the ones I have made have been pretty good (just not max level to see if crafting will make perminent ones, but I do not see it as a problem). Here is another point you seem to miss, it's not a gear driven game like WOW is (thank goodness) It's more about character development, guild development and team mechanics. Not all items are class specific. I have gotten general weapons, armour and broken stuff (that can be repaired and made into an item for any class), all general use. Now, this comes full circle about another difference I think they are better for. Each reward you get is useful by you in the terms you can actually use it. I have been on many raids to Kara in WOW and not a single item drop to help me. The way they do loot in this game means if you win a loot roll for PQ, Keep Lord or Boss, you get a bag and in it is something you can use or every quest has an item usable for you instead of 3 items that you cannot use at all.
12. Another sign you have not played this game much, or reciently.
First, flight masters. Thank goodness you do not actually have to fly between pairings. If you take a close look at the realm map in the intro video, you would have seen how far apart each pairing truly is. ALL of WOW's area would fit on the elven island alone. Let me give you a clue about the flight mechanism in WOW. All it is, is a time sink, and a terrible one that I am very glad they removed in this game.
End game city. It wasn't up to par with the rest of the game. They moved alot of racial specific content to the remaining city. When the others are leased (apparently as free content as it should be) it will give people that much more to do. But given the fact most have not figured out the end game mechanic well enough yet, and figure out how to take even one city, the other two can wait in my opinion.
As for Scenerios, they added the mechanic to be able to que for all scenerios of your teir from anywhere quite a long time ago (a month now I think) Your complaint is old news, addressed and fixed.
13. This again are complaints of old information. Open PvP, you are allowed to go one tier below your current teir. This mechanic was in at release. If you do not have the unlocks after 10 additional levels of advancement that they were intended for, it's how you are playing that seems to be at issue. The chicken was to address griefing and ganking, which is still a problem on the open servers. Again, the mechanic was well discussed and open information from the beginning. If you chose not to work on Tome unlocks for the lowest 2 teirs until you are level 32, there's an issue with you, not the game. And note, it does not stop you from walking around in the zone and getting all the exploration unlocks (though more difficult) it only stop combat ones, which again, 10 levels above the intended combat, not the game's fault. It encourages true PvP with comparable opponents. It prevents the "I am uber leet because my level 40 can gank a level 1"
As for the carebear comment, please refer to the WOW site for how unpopular the latest zombie event was to the majority of the player base. Here lies the error of your mindset and making a profitable and popular game.
With your minset, everything from now on has to meet or beat WOW's development. That means the 5 years to make it and the 4 years of improvements along the way. I do not see that as a finacial sucss with even the more open minded finacial investor. (not to mention how fast technology advances and need to be included over that period of time.
I will simply say good day to you and let you get back to you either playing WOW or trying to play WAR as WOW.
... 4. ok, let me get this straight, you buy a game that is designed for RvR/PvP experience and your level of expectation for it's PvE is to be equal or greater than a PvE focused game that has had 4 years to develop? As for the MJ comment, I would love to see it because that type of comment can be taken various ways. Did he ment the amount of content (which I can say I think does rival WOW's) complexities (Which I doubt since this is a RvR game) Polish (unrealistic) or something else? I work customer service, and I know how a person's expectation can color what they read or hear on a daily basis. I would love to see his comment as originally is done so we can see the context of it. WOW's original system was not nearly as complex as it is today. ...
"We obviously had a major bump when Burning Crusade came out," Jacobs said.
"When [Blizzard] released that expansion, they raised the expectations of the player."
Jacobs paid tribute to Blizzard's ability to create stand-out quests that players would talk about with each other, and to pack its game with content.
"They put in some of what we call 'watercooler quests', the things that you talk about around the watercooler," he said.
"We looked at the amount of content they put in that and said we need more time if we want to add some of those things, if we want our own watercooler quests or more watercooler quests. So our choice was to delay the game and spend more time on it."
Also, I'll mention that the argument that "WoW is only better than WAR because it's been in development longer" seems really pointless to me. I don't really care about development time, money spent, etc. WoW is better than WAR right now, so my hard earned dollars are going to WoW. If the situation changes in the future, I would gladly renew my WAR subscription.
... 4. ok, let me get this straight, you buy a game that is designed for RvR/PvP experience and your level of expectation for it's PvE is to be equal or greater than a PvE focused game that has had 4 years to develop? As for the MJ comment, I would love to see it because that type of comment can be taken various ways. Did he ment the amount of content (which I can say I think does rival WOW's) complexities (Which I doubt since this is a RvR game) Polish (unrealistic) or something else? I work customer service, and I know how a person's expectation can color what they read or hear on a daily basis. I would love to see his comment as originally is done so we can see the context of it. WOW's original system was not nearly as complex as it is today. ...
"We obviously had a major bump when Burning Crusade came out," Jacobs said.
"When [Blizzard] released that expansion, they raised the expectations of the player."
Jacobs paid tribute to Blizzard's ability to create stand-out quests that players would talk about with each other, and to pack its game with content.
"They put in some of what we call 'watercooler quests', the things that you talk about around the watercooler," he said.
"We looked at the amount of content they put in that and said we need more time if we want to add some of those things, if we want our own watercooler quests or more watercooler quests. So our choice was to delay the game and spend more time on it."
Also, I'll mention that the argument that "WoW is only better than WAR because it's been in development longer" seems really pointless to me. I don't really care about development time, money spent, etc. WoW is better than WAR right now, so my hard earned dollars are going to WoW. If the situation changes in the future, I would gladly renew my WAR subscription.
First of all I want to say thank you for the link. Much information on this sight gets slanted and changed from the original meaning too many times to take "he said,she said" without a little back up. So again, thank you.
Well, the article I would say falls within my "something else" It looks like he was talking about memorable missions that caught player's attention and be something to talk about with others.
There's a few I have hit that made things really memorable to me, what I would oncider "watercooler" missions that grab you and shake you. The Empire 1st PQ comes to mind. A second is another PQ later on around a burning windmill. That was a piece of virtual art with things on high and the sound they came up for it. What is "water cooler worthy" is going to be different from person to person. Here's the last detail that caught my attention when I came to WAR. I hated PvP in WOW. (and TBH hate is a kind word about my passion about it). I knew WAR was going to be RvR. I had played DAoC ages ago, and it wasn't a bad expereince to me (never took ahold of me either) and I am a big fan of the tabletop game comany (though 40k ALOT more than Fantasy) so I applied to the beta. After I got accepted and playing for a while, I had to tell my friends something (including my WOW guild) What I said is the following (which I hope you understand the significance of it)
I hate WOW PvP
I am in the WAR beta test.
WAR is about RvR.
I will be pre-ordering and buying WAR.
My friends, knowing me as they do, was shocked about this. If that isn't "watercooler talk" enough, I don't know what is. It took a passionate hater of PvP and convinced me to play and continue playing the game because of it's PvP.
The last is the fact some things you can script for, develop and write, and others you just have to fix after contact with the customer base. Maybe my time scripting content for a persistant world in Neverwinter Nights colored my view on this topic, knowing how hard it is to script bug free (and hopefully exploit free) content and the time it takes to really write alot of PvE content and stuff. It probably made me appriciate the effort and time needed. The expectation of a newly released game, to be as good or better than something that has been tuned for 4 years, to me, is unreasonable, given my experiences. Even with beta testing, nothing finds the cracks than exposing it to a player base who is not looking to do things the way it was ment to be done. WOW was in similar conditions when it was released. It takes time. If you do not have patience in this, then all I can do is wish you well. Because my feeling is nothing that is released will ever meet your expectations until a year or more later.
Have a good night and thank you again with the link.
Comments
I read until you said that in order to play another pairing's scenario you have to fly there...because that's completely dead wrong, and you are just making shit up to trash the game.
Had you ACTUALLY played the game past 2 weeks of release you would know they changed this, but you didn't. Instead you played for a little bit and then came here to cry like a baby about the stuff that you like in WoW that isn't here.
Guess what? If you like that stuff, play WoW. It's actually a really simple solution.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Exactly. Its a shame that many people don't see it.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Exactly. Its a shame that many people don't see it.
Just like WOW clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from other games. As a matter of fact, WoW could not even exist if Brad Mcquaid did not come up with the Vision(TM) of raiding. So now the EQ Lite become a creator of things that other people borrow from?
Exactly. Its a shame that many people don't see it.
Just like WOW clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from other games. As a matter of fact, WoW could not even exist if Brad Mcquaid did not come up with the Vision(TM) of raiding. So now the EQ Lite become a creator of things that other people borrow from?
Sweet another one.. ok ill bite. *pulls out a many paged book with many book marks in it, and opens it.* Ahhh yes... lets see..
War clearly copied many things from WoW. But lets be fair here, what exactly did they borrow? Scratch the levels, everyone has done that.
1. You are practically led to your quest destinations, pretty much how wow did it, shows you right on the mini map who to go to, where to find them etc.
2. Combat system is the same in reguards to button mashing skills. Which inst a bad thing mind you.. just showing you how its like WoW (which by the way i dont play any more, its too much raid).. moving on!
3. You know the flags in rvr areas, some of the scenarios, they work just as they did in wow... nothing really new like, go burn down this house or something a bit more innovative...
4. Speaking of scenarios... they feel just like wow's BG's. So much its boggling. Hell.... the score card at the end is EXACTLY how Wow does it... colors and all! Even the skulls and birds at the top. Moving on...
5. They borrow wows wonderful tactic of repeating the same scenery. (i like to call it the flintstones effect) For instance... in WoW the inn in redridge is just like the one in elwyn forest. And just like WoW, In war, the "Inn" or tavern if you wish.. is pasted all over festenplatz.. the harvest shrine.. oh hell lets just say Nordland and get it over with. But seriously.. how many times can one turn around a house in festenplatz before one needs to create a new one?
6. The skill trees are a dead rip off of WoW... minus the fact that they are much smaller.. but its obvious where they got the idea from.
7. The act of having named beasts every mile or so. Aka heros of whatever they represent. Like named wolves... etc.. which inst a bad thing.. but at least they could make it drop something
So really its just a dumbed down version.
I could go on nitpicking bit i think im done for now... you get my point. Or.. at least you should.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Exactly. Its a shame that many people don't see it.
Just like WOW clearly borrowed many ideas and gaming conventions from other games. As a matter of fact, WoW could not even exist if Brad Mcquaid did not come up with the Vision(TM) of raiding. So now the EQ Lite become a creator of things that other people borrow from?
Sweet another one.. ok ill bite. *pulls out a many paged book with many book marks in it, and opens it.* Ahhh yes... lets see..
War clearly copied many things from WoW. But lets be fair here, what exactly did they borrow? Scratch the levels, everyone has done that.
1. You are practically led to your quest destinations, pretty much how wow did it, shows you right on the mini map who to go to, where to find them etc.
2. Combat system is the same in reguards to button mashing skills. Which inst a bad thing mind you.. just showing you how its like WoW (which by the way i dont play any more, its too much raid).. moving on!
3. You know the flags in rvr areas, some of the scenarios, they work just as they did in wow... nothing really new like, go burn down this house or something a bit more innovative...
4. Speaking of scenarios... they feel just like wow's BG's. So much its boggling. Hell.... the score card at the end is EXACTLY how Wow does it... colors and all! Even the skulls and birds at the top. Moving on...
5. They borrow wows wonderful tactic of repeating the same scenery. (i like to call it the flintstones effect) For instance... in WoW the inn in redridge is just like the one in elwyn forest. And just like WoW, In war, the "Inn" or tavern if you wish.. is pasted all over festenplatz.. the harvest shrine.. oh hell lets just say Nordland and get it over with. But seriously.. how many times can one turn around a house in festenplatz before one needs to create a new one?
6. The skill trees are a dead rip off of WoW... minus the fact that they are much smaller.. but its obvious where they got the idea from.
7. The act of having named beasts every mile or so. Aka heros of whatever they represent. Like named wolves... etc.. which inst a bad thing.. but at least they could make it drop something
So really its just a dumbed down version.
I could go on nitpicking bit i think im done for now... you get my point. Or.. at least you should.
Ahh, well. Point by point. Excellent. Shall we take the comparison further?
1. In WOW, your quest gives you a general idea where things are. So general in fact at times, I had to refer to an outside website to make sure I am in the right area. in WAR, they give you a good hint on the boarders of the area you need to get to. Also, I think it is worth mentioning, they took out ALOT of the travel time sink quests, kill quests that you might get what you are looking for one out of 5 kills...if you are lucky, so yes, similar, but they did try to improve things. Is it took "easy" or "simplified" compared to the WOW quests, that's personal preference. So in generalities, yes, they are similar, but there is just as many differences.
2. Buttom mashing. Again, a general term, but here's something to concider. Combat has several different factors added to it than just "Button Mashing" You have tactics, passive bonuses that you select to help you, moral skills, a new ability that is generated over the duration of combat, knockback, a new type of ability for players and last butnot least, collision detection that adds a new dimention to the combat where positioning does become more of an issue. Not to forget those combat skills all have different uses, advance with you and some even are specific positionals (more so than WOW). SO just using the term "button Mashing" does nothing to discuss the similarities/differences.
3. Capture the flag is a mechanic used in FPS alot too. This is a widespread mechanic (heck, even existed in games before computers mind you!) The fact they use a common mechanic used across many types of games does not make or break it being a "clone". Next you will be saying the fact there is chat, avatars,mounts and heaven forbid gold in both games, WAR must be the clone!
4. Ahhh Feeling, nothing but feelings...I could sing all night, but we are here to discuss things. Most WOW battleground mechanics originally were inspired by alot of FPS games. Again, not a WOW original, but something more widespread. The scorecard I can give you but here's a more interresting question. How would you make it different, but still keep it meaningful to those who play and have expectations? Very little can be changed in that department.
5. Ahhh, cloning scenery. How much effort does one put into making terrain different? A good question. How much is enough? Do you require all games to make each building or tree to be unique and is this an expectation you have? I do have a friend in the compter gaming industry. I'll ask him how long it takes to render an individual building, from beginning to end. You give me how many different buildings you concider sufficient in an MMO, we multiply those numbers and see how realistic your expectation is when making a game...
6. Skill trees, another fun discussion. There's a catch, the fuction much differently between the games. In WOW, each tree does minor changes to skills you have, give you new skills, stats and other factors. In WAR, each point you put into a path Mastery buffes the 5-6 skills it is attached to in addition to unlocking other abilities, wether it be skills, tactics or morale, each one with a different fuction that scales up as you level, meaning you do not have to "relearn" it to make it more effective. How many times do you have to choose the same advancement in WOW? 1-5 per each one?
7. Named characters. You want buildings to be individual, but if it is creatures, it's a bad thing unless it has a special reward for you to get when you kill it? When I scavenge from them, I do note I tend to get better materials to craft with from them. Just because they do not have "Uber armour 1000" for you as a drop, does not mean they do not have a use. Odds are they belong to a quest you have overlooked here or there.
Any more?
I do wish you well.
Generally this game isn't as bad as most people make it out to be. That being said as a MMORPG game, it is an inferior game to WoW in most levels. So why spend money to play an inferior game.
Scenarios mostly promote turtles. If you like hanging around waiting for the opposition to come up then by all means, but it punishes offence. Think of not one WSG but 6 or 7 of them.
RVR just doesn't work because it doesn't reward enough for most people to try. Also there is too many different zones for RVR to gather people in RVR. Every thing gives experience, so you can't hang around in a active niche.
Crafting is a waste and should be taken right out of the game.
Class balance is not there yet.
PVE is a joke.
Waiting for the next thing
IMHO war atm is like CS, log in killl some ppl log out
u can say war is not for core player and is true is for casual players
casual players pay same amount of money like your and dont "hammer the server all day"
WAR!=big challenges on-line for nerds
BTW OP u used "wow" more that 35 times
BestSigEver :P
Trevornor got most of these already but I will add a few more.
Number 2 - Do you know that WOW combat system is almost an exact replica of Everquest combat system? The hate/threat system, the way monster react to damage, cure..., the spell systems, the melee system, the crowd control system, the way your character automatically attack, you hit 1, 2, 3 to execute special ability,... even down to many specific terms were also borrow like 'aggro', 'train', ... hate clearing mechanism like feign death, invisible...
Number 4 - The idea of battleground actually came from DAoC, WOW just took the idea and made it into WOW battleground, even borrowed the name.
Number 5 - That called art asset management, you will see that in any 3D game, not just WoW, or WAR, any. Making different art for every single 3D model in the virtual world is stupid, to improve performance as well as to reduce work for artist, people will reuse art asset as much as they can.
Number 7 - That came from Everquest as well, UO also have pretty similar concept.
Even Epic equipments, Epic quest ideas are borrowed from Everquest. The whole WOW raiding end-game was borrowed from Everquest and umm 'dumbed down', hehe, I could use that word once in a while.
I agree with the OP for the most part.
However, I haven't seen a single rank 40 decked out in epics. Ive only seen one dude so far with more then one.
While I think that the keep system is the shining point of war, I think that wow's pvp mechanics are better atm.
I also agree that the game should have not been released so early.
Walls of text are never a good way to present arguments particularly when those walls of text hide incorrect information about the game
Did the OP actually try *walking* between the zones? It is possible, everyone else can do it but evidently the OP couldn't grasp it.
And first they complain about lack of 'immersion' then they whine about needing to run so far to find a flight master when scale of zones is one of the most common request for an 'immersive' game.
The OP needs to make up their mind about what they're complaining about, then actually check their facts and play the game.
Well, I am not going to crit the readers here with the original wall of text, so I will refer to it by number to line up with the original post #1.
1. WOW's combat system is a product of 4 years of final tuning. When WOW was released, it was similarly "unhinged" even though other games were fine tuned by then. It's a growth process all MMOs seem to go through at release. To call it bad after a single month is simply impatient. I would think if you tried any game first month, you will always see some of the "unhinged-ness" until they adapt the code to the player level. I can hear it now "Why wasn't it fixed in beta testing?" Because you test the system in controlled settings to see if it opperates properly. No game tests their coding "uncontrolled". It's how they respond and adapt that matters. Give it time. If that means you stop subscription for 6+ months until it is fixed to your satisfaction, that's your right to do and I personally understand. Will I unsubscribe, heck no because it is just a minor distraction to me.
2. See above.
3. Dungeons. There are several instanced dungeons (Both in the main city and abroad, with others unlocked while sacking the opposing city), and then there are 24 various lairs (open world dungeons) hidden across the landscape. Some require exploring out of the way areas, others are skill jump approaches that remind me of Tomb Raider to get to. Then there is PQs that many call quickie dungeons which number in the hundreds across the landscape. The fact they are not exact duplicates of WOW does not mean they do not exist. so 24 Lairs + 10 for each side (not counting city sacking ones) is 34 dungeons. Is that somehow not enough for you? For your reference, Lairs were ment to suplement dungeons, not PQs.
4. ok, let me get this straight, you buy a game that is designed for RvR/PvP experience and your level of expectation for it's PvE is to be equal or greater than a PvE focused game that has had 4 years to develop? As for the MJ comment, I would love to see it because that type of comment can be taken various ways. Did he ment the amount of content (which I can say I think does rival WOW's) complexities (Which I doubt since this is a RvR game) Polish (unrealistic) or something else? I work customer service, and I know how a person's expectation can color what they read or hear on a daily basis. I would love to see his comment as originally is done so we can see the context of it. WOW's original system was not nearly as complex as it is today.
5. The UI has one thing going for it that WOW's does not, adaptability. Have you even messed with the UI design settings in WAR? Alot of your problems with it are clickable settings within the UI interface menu. We, as players, can adjust the UI in ways it takes a programmer (and a downloaded add on) to modify WOW's. Heck, WOW's original UI went through many changes due to the add on's themselves being greatly superior back in the day, to include the features. Again, this takes time.
6. Here I see we are going to disagree on this topic. I like WAR's design for skills a heck of alot better than WOW's. First, each skill you get has a unique purpose. They also scale up as you level (which also allows the raise in your level for PvP areas) So no new skill will replace another skill, each will have it's use. For the example you list, DPS, My Witch hunter can do burst damage, DOT, stackable DOT, Buff, Debuff, positional attacks, snare, reduce healing effects, silence, self heal, reduce action points and morale. All are builders of accusations, and this list does not include the effects of the executions. BTW, he's only 17th level. If you are calling this list insufficient, I hate to see what your level of expectation is. Also, skills are not the only form of abilities or advancement in the game, unlike WOW. WAR also includes tactics (passive buffs) and morale (abilities you can trigger the longer you are in combat) and gear (which is common to both games). Combine the fact you can actually change both tactics and morale abilities without respecing (and even have tactic combinations preset up to 5) makes for greater adaptability on the fly. As for "uber abilities" I guess you never got level 4 morale ability that fully heals your group (in range)?
7. Character Looks customization does what it needs to do, be fluid in mass combat without severly taxing a server with minute details.
As for skills, I touched on this before, but I will explain plainly here. Advancement in WAR is several ways and mechanisms. Actual abilities are greater in the fact you have not only clickable skills, but also passive abilities from tactics and combat generating abilities in morale. Add to this the advancement set up. in WAR, your skills level with you, removing the need to "retain" them like you do in WOW, that remves what, 80% of the "advancement" in WOW, the fact you have to retain for each rank? Second, the Mastery tree in WAR has additional effects WOW's does not. First is the fact it takes only 1 point to get the ability, because of the scaling. WOW, you have to spend 1-5 points in each to make it fully effective. Second, with WAR, each branch has 5-6 skills attached to it that gets a buff for each point you put in that path. So each point does not just have a single effect, it increases several skills at once. Then we have Renown, something WOW wishes it had. This allows the player to adjust his stats as he levels as well as get new abilities. Meaningful advancement of PvP. We also have Tome unlocks that can give you additional abilities as well. Shall I go on?
8. Here comes some direct proof that makes me doubt you advanced far in WAR, the comment of lack of CC. This greatly differs from the great amount of complaints that are happening that there is TOO much CC in the game.
Second, you obviously do not know end game very well. Each side only has one city to sack, but in order to get there, you have to unlock and capture 2 of the 3 racial fortresses, which needs you to capture the assosiated areas.
Third, your opinion that zergs win battles does not mesh with the uproar that it takes only a few defenders to generally hold off a much larger force trying to assault a keep due to one mechanic you have completely overlooked, collision detection, whcih choke points become a viable tactic a severly outnumbered force can use to great advantage...if they work well enough together. You theory and opinion only matters if both sides only zerg, which they do not all the time. There are many stories and first hand accounts where a well fuctioning small team demolish zergs.
9. From what I have read in tech support, this game relies on the processor and memory levels much more than the graphics card. The graphics cards need to have certain abilities, but in general it seems to under use it. Alot of people in tech support help players get the AA and AF working to it's full potential and the increase in performance is quite good (if that is indeed what is wrong) The engine looks like a new product on the market and refer back to point 1 again about my thoughts on things.
10. Itemization. This does need improvements, but again is no better or worse than most games at release in this department. I have seen PQs drop epics and gold bags before, so they are out there.
Next crafting. It is focused on two things, short term buff and effects (potions) and lower level long term buff and effects (talismans) Instead of breaking those two principles out to X many skills, with a grind component that is obnoxious (which this game has removed for the most part) they made it a side distraction at most intead of another sink to be pursued. The fact the game is not centered around crafting means the game is not centered around grind sinks (wether it be kill grinding, time grinding, money grinding or node grinding) It is about RvR. It also makes it so that to be competitive in RvR or PvP, you do not have to be a grinding god to get leet buffs. (insert bad opinion of twinks in WOW's PvP ruining overall experience for the majority of players, to the point they have to group cross server to make BGs viable)
11. Another sign you have not played this game much or in depth. Many chapter's lowest level rewards are non-expiring talismans, I have gotten non-expiring talisman drops, and some of the ones I have made have been pretty good (just not max level to see if crafting will make perminent ones, but I do not see it as a problem). Here is another point you seem to miss, it's not a gear driven game like WOW is (thank goodness) It's more about character development, guild development and team mechanics. Not all items are class specific. I have gotten general weapons, armour and broken stuff (that can be repaired and made into an item for any class), all general use. Now, this comes full circle about another difference I think they are better for. Each reward you get is useful by you in the terms you can actually use it. I have been on many raids to Kara in WOW and not a single item drop to help me. The way they do loot in this game means if you win a loot roll for PQ, Keep Lord or Boss, you get a bag and in it is something you can use or every quest has an item usable for you instead of 3 items that you cannot use at all.
12. Another sign you have not played this game much, or reciently.
First, flight masters. Thank goodness you do not actually have to fly between pairings. If you take a close look at the realm map in the intro video, you would have seen how far apart each pairing truly is. ALL of WOW's area would fit on the elven island alone. Let me give you a clue about the flight mechanism in WOW. All it is, is a time sink, and a terrible one that I am very glad they removed in this game.
End game city. It wasn't up to par with the rest of the game. They moved alot of racial specific content to the remaining city. When the others are leased (apparently as free content as it should be) it will give people that much more to do. But given the fact most have not figured out the end game mechanic well enough yet, and figure out how to take even one city, the other two can wait in my opinion.
As for Scenerios, they added the mechanic to be able to que for all scenerios of your teir from anywhere quite a long time ago (a month now I think) Your complaint is old news, addressed and fixed.
13. This again are complaints of old information. Open PvP, you are allowed to go one tier below your current teir. This mechanic was in at release. If you do not have the unlocks after 10 additional levels of advancement that they were intended for, it's how you are playing that seems to be at issue. The chicken was to address griefing and ganking, which is still a problem on the open servers. Again, the mechanic was well discussed and open information from the beginning. If you chose not to work on Tome unlocks for the lowest 2 teirs until you are level 32, there's an issue with you, not the game. And note, it does not stop you from walking around in the zone and getting all the exploration unlocks (though more difficult) it only stop combat ones, which again, 10 levels above the intended combat, not the game's fault. It encourages true PvP with comparable opponents. It prevents the "I am uber leet because my level 40 can gank a level 1"
As for the carebear comment, please refer to the WOW site for how unpopular the latest zombie event was to the majority of the player base. Here lies the error of your mindset and making a profitable and popular game.
With your minset, everything from now on has to meet or beat WOW's development. That means the 5 years to make it and the 4 years of improvements along the way. I do not see that as a finacial sucss with even the more open minded finacial investor. (not to mention how fast technology advances and need to be included over that period of time.
I will simply say good day to you and let you get back to you either playing WOW or trying to play WAR as WOW.
I'll be very brief and remind everyone again about that one simple sentence that killed them all....
People forget that you need to PAY to play this game for every month you play it.
That's why the number of players drop each week, like ALL new MMORPG's launched these past 2 years.
They ALL want to have that 20% piece of pie Blizzard has and in all their "gold rush" they forget to design a game....EA first !
So indeed: every copy sold of War is (again) free publicity for WotLK.
Problem lately is that not much War copies are being sold anymore ///////
I'm a little tired to be typing too much tonight. But here is what you're looking for (the interview text is available in many other places, I just snatched a random link from google): warhammerinfo.blogspot.com/2008/09/burning-crusades-quality-delayed-war.html
"We obviously had a major bump when Burning Crusade came out," Jacobs said.
"When [Blizzard] released that expansion, they raised the expectations of the player."
Jacobs paid tribute to Blizzard's ability to create stand-out quests that players would talk about with each other, and to pack its game with content.
"They put in some of what we call 'watercooler quests', the things that you talk about around the watercooler," he said.
"We looked at the amount of content they put in that and said we need more time if we want to add some of those things, if we want our own watercooler quests or more watercooler quests. So our choice was to delay the game and spend more time on it."
Also, I'll mention that the argument that "WoW is only better than WAR because it's been in development longer" seems really pointless to me. I don't really care about development time, money spent, etc. WoW is better than WAR right now, so my hard earned dollars are going to WoW. If the situation changes in the future, I would gladly renew my WAR subscription.
I'm a little tired to be typing too much tonight. But here is what you're looking for (the interview text is available in many other places, I just snatched a random link from google): warhammerinfo.blogspot.com/2008/09/burning-crusades-quality-delayed-war.html
"We obviously had a major bump when Burning Crusade came out," Jacobs said.
"When [Blizzard] released that expansion, they raised the expectations of the player."
Jacobs paid tribute to Blizzard's ability to create stand-out quests that players would talk about with each other, and to pack its game with content.
"They put in some of what we call 'watercooler quests', the things that you talk about around the watercooler," he said.
"We looked at the amount of content they put in that and said we need more time if we want to add some of those things, if we want our own watercooler quests or more watercooler quests. So our choice was to delay the game and spend more time on it."
Also, I'll mention that the argument that "WoW is only better than WAR because it's been in development longer" seems really pointless to me. I don't really care about development time, money spent, etc. WoW is better than WAR right now, so my hard earned dollars are going to WoW. If the situation changes in the future, I would gladly renew my WAR subscription.
First of all I want to say thank you for the link. Much information on this sight gets slanted and changed from the original meaning too many times to take "he said,she said" without a little back up. So again, thank you.
Well, the article I would say falls within my "something else" It looks like he was talking about memorable missions that caught player's attention and be something to talk about with others.
There's a few I have hit that made things really memorable to me, what I would oncider "watercooler" missions that grab you and shake you. The Empire 1st PQ comes to mind. A second is another PQ later on around a burning windmill. That was a piece of virtual art with things on high and the sound they came up for it. What is "water cooler worthy" is going to be different from person to person. Here's the last detail that caught my attention when I came to WAR. I hated PvP in WOW. (and TBH hate is a kind word about my passion about it). I knew WAR was going to be RvR. I had played DAoC ages ago, and it wasn't a bad expereince to me (never took ahold of me either) and I am a big fan of the tabletop game comany (though 40k ALOT more than Fantasy) so I applied to the beta. After I got accepted and playing for a while, I had to tell my friends something (including my WOW guild) What I said is the following (which I hope you understand the significance of it)
I hate WOW PvP
I am in the WAR beta test.
WAR is about RvR.
I will be pre-ordering and buying WAR.
My friends, knowing me as they do, was shocked about this. If that isn't "watercooler talk" enough, I don't know what is. It took a passionate hater of PvP and convinced me to play and continue playing the game because of it's PvP.
The last is the fact some things you can script for, develop and write, and others you just have to fix after contact with the customer base. Maybe my time scripting content for a persistant world in Neverwinter Nights colored my view on this topic, knowing how hard it is to script bug free (and hopefully exploit free) content and the time it takes to really write alot of PvE content and stuff. It probably made me appriciate the effort and time needed. The expectation of a newly released game, to be as good or better than something that has been tuned for 4 years, to me, is unreasonable, given my experiences. Even with beta testing, nothing finds the cracks than exposing it to a player base who is not looking to do things the way it was ment to be done. WOW was in similar conditions when it was released. It takes time. If you do not have patience in this, then all I can do is wish you well. Because my feeling is nothing that is released will ever meet your expectations until a year or more later.
Have a good night and thank you again with the link.