Everyone wants to make the "WoW killer". Guess what: You won't. Nobody will "kill" WoW just by making a "better" MMO. And, bluntly, trying is the first step of failing. You need to have some good game IP as a foundation if you want to create a overly successful MMO. Blizzard did exactly that with WoW. Warcraft is a very good IP to build on. Rich story, long history, well done and well received games built before WoW made the success possible. It didn't come over night. It wasn't simply Blizzard sitting down and making some "good" MMO (let's not debate whether WoW is good, ok?) and presto, instant cash cow. The IP had a player fanbase and this was the foundation the success of WoW was built on.
You are probably right about WOW's success depending on the Warcraft fanbase, but that is not an option for every developer. Because you need to have a suitable IP first. If we look at lesser but still successful MMORPGs, based on numbers from www.mmogchart.com/charts/ and listing only those with 200k or more subscribers, there are
Lineage (I and II). AFAIK not based on a previous big hit. Wikipedia lists Nethack as an influence, but I don't think that was the fanbase that made Lineage big.
Runescape. Also seems to be an original design, not based on an earlier game.
Final Fantasy XI: Here your theory is spot on again, FF built its fanbase over many generations of the game
Dofus: Seems to be an original one (relying on Wikipedia again that does not name a predecessor).
Star Wars Galaxies: Movie IP, and quite successful for a few years. Now in decline, was arguably ruined by management which wanted to turn the sandbox world into a more WOW-like game. According to the disappointed fans in the mmorpg.com forums they did not only alienate the fans of the original concept, but also botched the implementation of the "new game experience".
Eve Online. Definitely unique among MMORPGs. I'm playing this one myself and fleet tactics remind me a bit of a multiplayer Homeworld, with each player handling one ship. But that is only a similarity, not reuse of an IP that would require buying a license.
Bottom line:
I agree WOW was hitting the lottery, but among the second rank of successful MMORPGs I see more original than reused IP. And one botched attempt to remake an already successful game into a WOW clone.
So a new studio might as well try a new idea, instead of bidding for existing IP.
If this game provides a ruthless world with freedom and consequences (and barring it's not buggy), then is should be a major hit. players will run for the hills.
There, fixed it for you.
Freedom is another term for "you just got ganked by a bigger wolf who is now stealing your stuff". Consequences is another term for "and now that wolf is teabagging you while saying how you enjoy the company of men".
If this game provides a ruthless world with freedom and consequences (and barring it's not buggy), then is should be a major hit. However, if it's a linear, hold-your-hand, please-follow-the-storyline, quest-laden crapfest, then it will fail like AOC and Warhammer, and many others.
That is a hilarious prediction.Since EVERY game that follows what THE op wants,HAS failed big time and oh yes WOW is a hold your hand,quest fest and it failed ?
This is obviously just a selfish request by the OP and not a prediction at all.The game will most likely fail because there is VERY few gamers right now to draw from.We have a few larger games coming out,so the chances for this game are extremely tough.
From what i saw ,the graphics will not wooo those fans and the gameplay that is to the individual.The quest part i saw in the video[the one involved getting gas tanks],looked 100% linear,that is a turn off for me,i hate when games FORCE you to do things to advance in the game.This type of gaming is for single player consoles,that is because you have a goal and are trying to complete the game then pile it away under dust.MMORPG's are suppose to be about freedom and the players decide their goals, and the economy.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While I don't think this game will be a WoW killer or any killer at all but It will be a good game for some and will probably have the same subs as EvE if not more. Here is some reasons.
1. It not another Fantasy MMO.
2. The combat system isn't point and click and wait.
3. While there are levels you get points to spend on what you want. No designated classes so you can specialize in whatever you want.
4. Its not another fricken Fantasy MMO.
For me this game will bring me back to MMO's. Got burnt out playing Dwarves and Elves in a fantasy setting.
Head into fallenearth.com and tease Tiggs there. Who knows, maybe you are worth an beta account. To me Fallen Earth is The MMORPG that hopefully keeps me busy in year 2009 and so on.
Becouse its a indie developer i hope they get enough followers, and a community who stick with it, but im affraid many will be dissapointed with this game.
Its not a sandbox btw, dont try stick a style on it that is not even close to sandbox.
lets hope it have a place among mmo's.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Becouse its a indie developer i hope they get enough followers, and a community who stick with it, but im affraid many will be dissapointed with this game. Its not a sandbox btw, dont try stick a style on it that is not even close to sandbox. lets hope it have a place among mmo's.
It is a sandbox.
You don't have classes with their standard themepark leveling.
The levels are only for the AP.
You start with NOTHING! You have to start spending AP in skills in wich you would like to specialize.
You want to be melee specialist? Pistoleer? Rifleman? Sniper? Tank? ...or go for crafting only? Or be a bit of some or all... it's up to you.
Sounds pretty sandbox to me.
They could have let go from the AP level and let you grind combat and craft XP like in old SWG.
But I like this one in wich you can level up and thus gain AP through either combat, missions or tradeskill.
So you are not forced to grind mobs or grind quests. You can just go craft away and level up that way and so gain AP to spend in your stats and skills.
The definition of Sandbox is total freedom and choice! And that is exactly what you get!
Becouse its a indie developer i hope they get enough followers, and a community who stick with it, but im affraid many will be dissapointed with this game. Its not a sandbox btw, dont try stick a style on it that is not even close to sandbox. lets hope it have a place among mmo's.
Ah, more senseless throwing around of the term "sandbox" by the gaming commission. Thank you for correcting the use of a subjective term. Again, thank you!
What exactly is a Veteran Gamer? I've been playing games for 20+ years (yay atari 2600 ) but I dont consider myself a Veteran Gamer, nor should anyone else. Video games are ever changing, and noone can ever be a Veteran of all games. But anywho, this game looks good, and seems to be working away from the whole 'easy mode' concept most mmos are doing these days. I will never make a prediction about a game, but I will offer my opinion. This game would be suited for those looking for a skill based game, and not a quest-grinder. Also the whole Mad Max feel gives it some uniqueness from other mmos. Yes there have been some other mmos that have sort of gone with the post apocalyptic genre, but none like this game. I truly hope they stick with thier guns about what they're planning on doing. Since it's post-apocalyptic, there shouldn't be rules and regulation, martial law ftw!
In the red QFT. Same here, been playin since atari 2600 released, that puts me at about 25 years. The only Veteran gamer that is realistic title wise would be if you played the same game for an extensive period like say maybe 5 years. You can play every game in the world and not be a veteran simply because you wont have the time to experience every part of a game.
Oh and for saying all those other games failed, its funny, though they had a rough start all of them are over 100k or so subs many way above that, which is more then enough to survive for quite some time. I however am looking forward to seeing what this game has to offer (like several other games in dev right now).
Playing: Not much actively. Games played: to many to list, been playing MMO's since 2001 --------------------------
SWG, a truly Epic game in the sense that there are still people ready and eager to reach for the pitch-fork and torch. That is true division by zero, fail so masive it implodes in on itself into a singularity and then exploads into a whole universe of Epic.
I'm just glad to see more sci-fi MMOs. When it comes out, I'll give it a try and go from there.
I'll be playing this on lauch and I think the hype is enough to get the subs they need (50-100k i'd guess since some of the zones aren''t active at launch)
Some questions answered on the main website about the game:
Headshots do more damage, limbshots do less +/- 25%
Crafting is really important, everything useful is made by players, and npc also buy items from player shops to sell to far off towns, so the economy sounds pretty dynamic. (I imagine they are taking good notes from EVE here )
I wouldn't call it a true sandbox until the customisation features (player housing, custom vehicles etc) are patched in, they said they are planning it for after launch. The key to calling a game sandbox is being able to make your own game within it, and though the character is very editable to your wishes, the world is not, yet.
Originally posted by pencilrick If this game provides a ruthless world with freedom and consequences (and barring it's not buggy), then is should be a major hit. However, if it's a linear, hold-your-hand, please-follow-the-storyline, quest-laden crapfest, then it will fail like AOC and Warhammer, and many others.
AoC is not a failure and Warhammer is certainly not a failure. For someone claiming to be veteran gamer your predictions suck ass because you cant even tell present clearly.
What do you consider a faliure? I agree with OP's post on what the game should and should not be like. I can not comment on AoC and Warhammer being failures to the community but AoC failed my expectations. Warhammer I played and just stopped because it was too repititous so maybe it failed holding my attention. Aoc Is begging people to come back or join up. But who cares if ya digg it in your opinion it is not a failure. Anyway, I do hope Fallen Earth does its research and employs the best of all the top selling games success features. If not there are others comming out. Good Luck.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
Love your quote, Mortemia, "Blades don´t need reloading."
I plan on slicing & dicing every one of the gun-geeks in Fallen Earth.
While your head lays next to your body after being blown off.... I will reload my gun. Just kidding because knowing mmo's the guns use nerf bullets and will probably need a few clips to get the job done. Tabula Rasa did the gun thing right on, On blast from the shotgun sent the enemy blown back and outta commission (Dead). Even the sound effects were taken from the best sounding real guns from real life weapons. Oh TR actually did fail, but I really liked that game.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
Love your quote, Mortemia, "Blades don´t need reloading."
I plan on slicing & dicing every one of the gun-geeks in Fallen Earth.
While your head lays next to your body after being blown off.... I will reload my gun. Just kidding because knowing mmo's the guns use nerf bullets and will probably need a few clips to get the job done. Tabula Rasa did the gun thing right on, On blast from the shotgun sent the enemy blown back and outta commission (Dead). Even the sound effects were taken from the best sounding real guns from real life weapons. Oh TR actually did fail, but I really liked that game.
Well, blades do more damage then guns but if they are throwing 10 guys at you, then youd be better off firing 6 clips to kill em all rather then running in the middle and getting surrounded and raped. And if they are all using blades you might hardly even get hit.
If this game provides a ruthless world with freedom and consequences (and barring it's not buggy), then is should be a major hit. However, if it's a linear, hold-your-hand, please-follow-the-storyline, quest-laden crapfest, then it will fail like AOC and Warhammer, and many others.
Neither AOC nor WAR are failures. They're simply not as huge of a success as WoW is.
As a veteran gamer, you should have known better than to state that.
Originally posted by BizkitNL Originally posted by pencilrick If this game provides a ruthless world with freedom and consequences (and barring it's not buggy), then is should be a major hit. However, if it's a linear, hold-your-hand, please-follow-the-storyline, quest-laden crapfest, then it will fail like AOC and Warhammer, and many others.
Neither AOC nor WAR are failures. They're simply not as huge of a success as WoW is. As a veteran gamer, you should have known better than to state that.
very true. in fact if fallen earth has half the sales of WAR, it would no doubt be a success beyond what they hope for. never going to happen though.
There never be a WoW killer, imo. Players will slowly stop playing WoW but I dont think we will see that many subscribers to another game. Only games that had a shot were Lotro, AoC, and War; and Lotro is doing very well. Only game that has a shot in the near future imo is Star Wars Old Republic and/or Blizzards next full mmorpg.
As far as this gaming being a success, we all know from Darkfall that getting alot of prerelease interest doesnt necessarily mean spending millions in ad revenue. I believe the typical mmorpg player of today will learn of the game rather easily, but the casual players that were just introduced to mmorpgs , like Wow, will come if the game has a good release.
This 'Veteran Gamer' (Im old as F***, and have been playing since I got my first game on my Vic 20, so I think I can be considered a Veteran) doesnt care if it kills WoW or not.
Each game needs to be judged by its own merit, and IF the developers do what they say they are doing, then It sounds like something I would enjoy. Ive been following the game for several years, and have read most of the offical information on their forums.
The official Fiction works located on their forum, shows they have paid alot of attention to the backstory, to faction development, and overall storyline of the game. Reading the quality of the official fiction leads me to think there will be some great storylines behind the quests.
I have been a game hopper for many years, searching for something/ anything that can challenge me enough to keep my attention. IMO, nothing has lived up to the pre-luclin days of EQ1. From the videos (official and unofficial leaked alpha) Ive seen on youtube, the game looks promising.
If they do follow through with their origional statements of One world (and not seperate world per server) then the game can / will feel populated and alive, without the need for WoW numbers. It can be a niche game and still be successful.
My prediction is that the game will fail because it is an indie MMORPG. 10 years ago this game would have been a big hit, but not now. Now it takes major dough. I love the idea, look, setting, and mechanics of the game but it will absolutely fail. I really wish I was wrong, but I'm not.
No...A good idea for a game with good gameplay will always conquer all, these days you can spend millions to millions of dollars and come out with a million dollar peice of crap that no one buys.
I havn't come across one MMO as of yet to show any of these qualities, most of the problems today has to to do with how greedy and dumb most companies have gotten since the success of WoW.
You want a good example, look at Mythic, they went from a pretty good game like Daoc to a making a brainless poor WoW clone like WAR....Why? Because they got greedy and took the idiot way out...
I was interested in this game until I heard it was a MMOFPS. If this game fails, a big reason will be FPS style combat.
I like mmorpg's and fps' almost equally much. If they can pull off a way to combine the two and end up with an immersive fun to play game - I'll be sueing the makers of this game for making me an addict.
Comments
You are probably right about WOW's success depending on the Warcraft fanbase, but that is not an option for every developer. Because you need to have a suitable IP first. If we look at lesser but still successful MMORPGs, based on numbers from www.mmogchart.com/charts/ and listing only those with 200k or more subscribers, there are
Bottom line:
I agree WOW was hitting the lottery, but among the second rank of successful MMORPGs I see more original than reused IP. And one botched attempt to remake an already successful game into a WOW clone.
So a new studio might as well try a new idea, instead of bidding for existing IP.
There, fixed it for you.
Freedom is another term for "you just got ganked by a bigger wolf who is now stealing your stuff". Consequences is another term for "and now that wolf is teabagging you while saying how you enjoy the company of men".
That is a hilarious prediction.Since EVERY game that follows what THE op wants,HAS failed big time and oh yes WOW is a hold your hand,quest fest and it failed ?
This is obviously just a selfish request by the OP and not a prediction at all.The game will most likely fail because there is VERY few gamers right now to draw from.We have a few larger games coming out,so the chances for this game are extremely tough.
From what i saw ,the graphics will not wooo those fans and the gameplay that is to the individual.The quest part i saw in the video[the one involved getting gas tanks],looked 100% linear,that is a turn off for me,i hate when games FORCE you to do things to advance in the game.This type of gaming is for single player consoles,that is because you have a goal and are trying to complete the game then pile it away under dust.MMORPG's are suppose to be about freedom and the players decide their goals, and the economy.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I find it entertaining that someone revived this dead thread to mock the OP some more.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While I don't think this game will be a WoW killer or any killer at all but It will be a good game for some and will probably have the same subs as EvE if not more. Here is some reasons.
1. It not another Fantasy MMO.
2. The combat system isn't point and click and wait.
3. While there are levels you get points to spend on what you want. No designated classes so you can specialize in whatever you want.
4. Its not another fricken Fantasy MMO.
For me this game will bring me back to MMO's. Got burnt out playing Dwarves and Elves in a fantasy setting.
Head into fallenearth.com and tease Tiggs there. Who knows, maybe you are worth an beta account. To me Fallen Earth is The MMORPG that hopefully keeps me busy in year 2009 and so on.
Love your quote, Mortemia, "Blades don´t need reloading."
I plan on slicing & dicing every one of the gun-geeks in Fallen Earth.
This game doesn't hold your hand.
This game is not the standard cooky cutter Themepark fantasy MMO with orcs and elves.
This game is not the target and click auto combat type.
You got levels, but that's it. You only gain AP points from leveling, wich you need to spend in whatever you like.
In other words... finally the sandbox freedom we have been graving for!
Crafting that really matters and is actually usefull and in some way you can even say nessessary.
There is plenty of info on the official forums about this. So you could go and have a read.
Like others said, it won't be an WoW killer... but it sertainly has a viable place on the MMO market.
Plenty of people that are tired of the standard cooky cutter fantasy MMO's with orcs and elves and are looking for a game like this.
Becouse its a indie developer i hope they get enough followers, and a community who stick with it, but im affraid many will be dissapointed with this game.
Its not a sandbox btw, dont try stick a style on it that is not even close to sandbox.
lets hope it have a place among mmo's.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
It is a sandbox.
You don't have classes with their standard themepark leveling.
The levels are only for the AP.
You start with NOTHING! You have to start spending AP in skills in wich you would like to specialize.
You want to be melee specialist? Pistoleer? Rifleman? Sniper? Tank? ...or go for crafting only? Or be a bit of some or all... it's up to you.
Sounds pretty sandbox to me.
They could have let go from the AP level and let you grind combat and craft XP like in old SWG.
But I like this one in wich you can level up and thus gain AP through either combat, missions or tradeskill.
So you are not forced to grind mobs or grind quests. You can just go craft away and level up that way and so gain AP to spend in your stats and skills.
The definition of Sandbox is total freedom and choice! And that is exactly what you get!
Ah, more senseless throwing around of the term "sandbox" by the gaming commission. Thank you for correcting the use of a subjective term. Again, thank you!
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
In the red QFT. Same here, been playin since atari 2600 released, that puts me at about 25 years. The only Veteran gamer that is realistic title wise would be if you played the same game for an extensive period like say maybe 5 years. You can play every game in the world and not be a veteran simply because you wont have the time to experience every part of a game.
Oh and for saying all those other games failed, its funny, though they had a rough start all of them are over 100k or so subs many way above that, which is more then enough to survive for quite some time. I however am looking forward to seeing what this game has to offer (like several other games in dev right now).
Playing: Not much actively.
Games played: to many to list, been playing MMO's since 2001
--------------------------
Back some, the red QFT, yep...
Pit Fall or River Raid anyone?
SWG, a truly Epic game in the sense that there are still people ready and eager to reach for the pitch-fork and torch. That is true division by zero, fail so masive it implodes in on itself into a singularity and then exploads into a whole universe of Epic.
I'm just glad to see more sci-fi MMOs. When it comes out, I'll give it a try and go from there.
I'll be playing this on lauch and I think the hype is enough to get the subs they need (50-100k i'd guess since some of the zones aren''t active at launch)
Some questions answered on the main website about the game:
Headshots do more damage, limbshots do less +/- 25%
Crafting is really important, everything useful is made by players, and npc also buy items from player shops to sell to far off towns, so the economy sounds pretty dynamic. (I imagine they are taking good notes from EVE here
)
I wouldn't call it a true sandbox until the customisation features (player housing, custom vehicles etc) are patched in, they said they are planning it for after launch. The key to calling a game sandbox is being able to make your own game within it, and though the character is very editable to your wishes, the world is not, yet.
<Welcome to my world>
AoC is not a failure and Warhammer is certainly not a failure. For someone claiming to be veteran gamer your predictions suck ass because you cant even tell present clearly.
What do you consider a faliure? I agree with OP's post on what the game should and should not be like. I can not comment on AoC and Warhammer being failures to the community but AoC failed my expectations. Warhammer I played and just stopped because it was too repititous so maybe it failed holding my attention. Aoc Is begging people to come back or join up. But who cares if ya digg it in your opinion it is not a failure. Anyway, I do hope Fallen Earth does its research and employs the best of all the top selling games success features. If not there are others comming out. Good Luck.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
While your head lays next to your body after being blown off.... I will reload my gun. Just kidding because knowing mmo's the guns use nerf bullets and will probably need a few clips to get the job done. Tabula Rasa did the gun thing right on, On blast from the shotgun sent the enemy blown back and outta commission (Dead). Even the sound effects were taken from the best sounding real guns from real life weapons. Oh TR actually did fail, but I really liked that game.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
While your head lays next to your body after being blown off.... I will reload my gun. Just kidding because knowing mmo's the guns use nerf bullets and will probably need a few clips to get the job done. Tabula Rasa did the gun thing right on, On blast from the shotgun sent the enemy blown back and outta commission (Dead). Even the sound effects were taken from the best sounding real guns from real life weapons. Oh TR actually did fail, but I really liked that game.
Well, blades do more damage then guns but if they are throwing 10 guys at you, then youd be better off firing 6 clips to kill em all rather then running in the middle and getting surrounded and raped. And if they are all using blades you might hardly even get hit.
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
Neither AOC nor WAR are failures. They're simply not as huge of a success as WoW is.
As a veteran gamer, you should have known better than to state that.
Neither AOC nor WAR are failures. They're simply not as huge of a success as WoW is.
As a veteran gamer, you should have known better than to state that.
very true. in fact if fallen earth has half the sales of WAR, it would no doubt be a success beyond what they hope for. never going to happen though.
There never be a WoW killer, imo. Players will slowly stop playing WoW but I dont think we will see that many subscribers to another game. Only games that had a shot were Lotro, AoC, and War; and Lotro is doing very well. Only game that has a shot in the near future imo is Star Wars Old Republic and/or Blizzards next full mmorpg.
As far as this gaming being a success, we all know from Darkfall that getting alot of prerelease interest doesnt necessarily mean spending millions in ad revenue. I believe the typical mmorpg player of today will learn of the game rather easily, but the casual players that were just introduced to mmorpgs , like Wow, will come if the game has a good release.
This 'Veteran Gamer' (Im old as F***, and have been playing since I got my first game on my Vic 20, so I think I can be considered a Veteran) doesnt care if it kills WoW or not.
Each game needs to be judged by its own merit, and IF the developers do what they say they are doing, then It sounds like something I would enjoy. Ive been following the game for several years, and have read most of the offical information on their forums.
The official Fiction works located on their forum, shows they have paid alot of attention to the backstory, to faction development, and overall storyline of the game. Reading the quality of the official fiction leads me to think there will be some great storylines behind the quests.
I have been a game hopper for many years, searching for something/ anything that can challenge me enough to keep my attention. IMO, nothing has lived up to the pre-luclin days of EQ1. From the videos (official and unofficial leaked alpha) Ive seen on youtube, the game looks promising.
If they do follow through with their origional statements of One world (and not seperate world per server) then the game can / will feel populated and alive, without the need for WoW numbers. It can be a niche game and still be successful.
No...A good idea for a game with good gameplay will always conquer all, these days you can spend millions to millions of dollars and come out with a million dollar peice of crap that no one buys.
I havn't come across one MMO as of yet to show any of these qualities, most of the problems today has to to do with how greedy and dumb most companies have gotten since the success of WoW.
You want a good example, look at Mythic, they went from a pretty good game like Daoc to a making a brainless poor WoW clone like WAR....Why? Because they got greedy and took the idiot way out...
I was interested in this game until I heard it was a MMOFPS. If this game fails, a big reason will be FPS style combat.
I like mmorpg's and fps' almost equally much. If they can pull off a way to combine the two and end up with an immersive fun to play game - I'll be sueing the makers of this game for making me an addict.
"nerf rock, paper is working as intended."
- Scissors.
Head Chop