Hmm what to think about this ?

Excalibur

Hello people

I asked a friend of mine about EQ2 and he wrote me this message below.

I wonder if he is right or wrong, can anyone comment on this ?

Thanx.

 

Quote My friend:

The day I can read that the Devs of EQ2 has decided that for instance 2 lvl 40 paladins can be different in something else than equipment and looks I MIGHT take a look at it.

One thing is the total lack of customization on character level (unless that has changed in the last 3-4 weeks), another thing is the reasoning from the Devs: We don't want to enable players to "nerf" themselves. Bah!!

So no learning from mistakes in character building, or learn to overcome any mistakes since you can't make any, and no sense of beeing any special kind of character except for what you own/wear.

/sarcasm on 
[b]Woohoo!!  Great!! [/b]

/sarcasm off

Another thing that in my eyes is negative is the close to forced grouping that EQ has, and not only a group is needed for most (all?) things, but the group HAS to have certain members in the team to be "effective" (whatever they have decided constitute that.)

I don't mind grouping in general, but there are times when I prefer to solo, and that seems to be very hard, if not close to impossible to do good in EQ2. BAD.
So if I am in a group, and someone starts demanding things to be done his way, and I decide to leave because of that, I will have to spend how long to get a group going again?
30-45 minutes minimum since a group need 6 members, and at least 1 from each archetype (which there are 4 of) ??
An hour +? 
Well, obviously none has the answer for that yet, but that is what I fear will be the scenario. Happy for the game and the gamers if it's not that way though...

They can give 4 times the xp in groups to encourage it for all I care, but don't remove the possibility to solo. Not saying that all quests/places should be solo'able btw.

Well, my 2 cents as they say......   

nooblet

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Originally posted by Excalibur
Hello people
I asked a friend of mine about EQ2 and he wrote me this message below.
I wonder if he is right or wrong, can anyone comment on this ?
Thanx.

Quote My friend:
The day I can read that the Devs of EQ2 has decided that for instance 2 lvl 40 paladins can be different in something else than equipment and looks I MIGHT take a look at it.
One thing is the total lack of customization on character level (unless that has changed in the last 3-4 weeks), another thing is the reasoning from the Devs: We don't want to enable players to "nerf" themselves. Bah!!
So no learning from mistakes in character building, or learn to overcome any mistakes since you can't make any, and no sense of beeing any special kind of character except for what you own/wear.
/sarcasm on Woohoo!! Great!!
/sarcasm off
Another thing that in my eyes is negative is the close to forced grouping that EQ has, and not only a group is needed for most (all?) things, but the group HAS to have certain members in the team to be "effective" (whatever they have decided constitute that.)
I don't mind grouping in general, but there are times when I prefer to solo, and that seems to be very hard, if not close to impossible to do good in EQ2. BAD. So if I am in a group, and someone starts demanding things to be done his way, and I decide to leave because of that, I will have to spend how long to get a group going again? 30-45 minutes minimum since a group need 6 members, and at least 1 from each archetype (which there are 4 of) ?? An hour +? Well, obviously none has the answer for that yet, but that is what I fear will be the scenario. Happy for the game and the gamers if it's not that way though...
They can give 4 times the xp in groups to encourage it for all I care, but don't remove the possibility to solo. Not saying that all quests/places should be solo'able btw.
Well, my 2 cents as they say......

---

Dude first of all your friend is totally wrong about the grouping part , maybe if he took sometime to read about EQ2 he would stop comparing it to an identical version of EQ.

First thing first , ALL CLASSES WILL CAN AND SHALL be able to solo in eq2 , there is content made for all classes to have the possibilty to solo for a backup or last resort. Some classes may hav an edge of soloing then others but every class will be able to solo for exp.

Also some people dont like to spend hours and hours and hours and hours leveling up and putting tons of effort into your character only to find out that you have to do it all over again because you picked a couple of wrong skills.

Your character can be different other than looks/equipment because you can pick what stats go up as you level i belive.

Another thing is , is that EQ IS NO DAMN COMPARISON AT ALL TO EQ2!!!11111 There are four archtypes , every archtype can perfom there main role equally welll , the only difference between them is originality and different arts to rely upon on perfomance of your job , sure theres gunna be a class that is always a little better then the other but i think theyve done an excellent job at almost completely eliminating this in EQ2. So when he said you need totally specific classes for groups , hes wrong there just archtypes.

Hope that cleared some things up for you

EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com

sparkatb

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Originally posted by Excalibur

The day I can read that the Devs of EQ2 has decided that for instance 2 lvl 40 paladins can be different in something else than equipment and looks I MIGHT take a look at it.
When was it said or seen that 2 lvl40 paladins wont look the same? Never.

One thing is the total lack of customization on character level (unless that has changed in the last 3-4 weeks), another thing is the reasoning from the Devs: We don't want to enable players to "nerf" themselves. Bah!!
Tell your friend, the amount of EQ2 stuff he has read i could read from the rear of a postage stamp

So no learning from mistakes in character building, or learn to overcome any mistakes since you can't make any, and no sense of beeing any special kind of character except for what you own/wear.
If you want to be a special character then become an expert of the game, instead of blameing the game company for something he/you sucks at. Your either good at the game or your not, just because you suck at the game doesnt meen you have to say something about the game sucks.

/sarcasm on 
[b]Woohoo!!  Great!! [/b]

/sarcasm off

Another thing that in my eyes is negative is the close to forced grouping that EQ has, and not only a group is needed for most (all?) things, but the group HAS to have certain members in the team to be "effective" (whatever they have decided constitute that.)
Firstly, your not forced to group, in EQ2 you can solo to max level.
Secondly, why not group? Why the **** would someone be playing an MMOG if they dont want to play with other players!?

I don't mind grouping in general, but there are times when I prefer to solo, and that seems to be very hard, if not close to impossible to do good in EQ2.
Someone doesnt know much about EQ2.

BAD.
So if I am in a group, and someone starts demanding things to be done his way, and I decide to leave because of that, I will have to spend how long to get a group going again?
Correct if;
- You suck
- No one likes you
But no, EQ2 fan base will be huge, big big time HUGE.

30-45 minutes minimum since a group need 6 members, and at least 1 from each archetype (which there are 4 of) ??
An hour +?
That is the answer of someone that doesnt mix good in the social sense, and doesnt know how to make ANY friends.

They can give 4 times the xp in groups to encourage it for all I care, but don't remove the possibility to solo. Not saying that all quests/places should be solo'able btw.
The only people that criticise EQ2 at the moment are people that havnt read anything or not much about the game. Everyone that has read about it all of them states how they are excited about the game. The only main issue which isnt a big issue is that some people wont be getting the game simply because it has no PvP, but then they soon turn round and say things like "i'll get EQ2 anyway to see what its like..."

---

Anofalye

1 major point that nobody bring here.

 

SoE plan on making soloing possible while working to get a group going, no more.  I dont know the form, but there will be something to make sure that after like 1 hour of soloing, you might as well log and wait for tomorrow to continue soloing.

 

I dont say it is good or bad.  This is how they see the situation ATM from what I read here and there, dont ask me how they plan to implement this, I have no clue!

 

I read a lot about EQ2...and I am pretty much as excited about it as a loobster in the grocery aquarium is when looking accross the glass at the customers!

 

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

Coldmeat

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Originally posted by sparkatb
Originally posted by Excalibur So no learning from mistakes in character building, or learn to overcome any mistakes since you can't make any, and no sense of beeing any special kind of character except for what you own/wear. If you want to be a special character then become an expert of the game, instead of blameing the game company for something he/you sucks at. Your either good at the game or your not, just because you suck at the game doesnt meen you have to say something about the game sucks.

---

Please explain what his skill at playing the game has to do with the level of customization of what skills his character has?

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Originally posted by sparkatb
Originally posted by Excalibur
BAD. So if I am in a group, and someone starts demanding things to be done his way, and I decide to leave because of that, I will have to spend how long to get a group going again? Correct if;- You suck- No one likes youBut no, EQ2 fan base will be huge, big big time HUGE.

---

I'm assuming you've played the game? You seem to be awfully knowledgable about the ease of grouping, and all that. So tell me how the grouping system works, please.

---

Originally posted by sparkatb
Originally posted by Excalibur
They can give 4 times the xp in groups to encourage it for all I care, but don't remove the possibility to solo. Not saying that all quests/places should be solo'able btw.The only people that criticise EQ2 at the moment are people that havnt read anything or not much about the game. Everyone that has read about it all of them states how they are excited about the game. The only main issue which isnt a big issue is that some people wont be getting the game simply because it has no PvP, but then they soon turn round and say things like "i'll get EQ2 anyway to see what its like..."

---

Some people question things because they don't believe everything they read, either. In the case of his friend it sounds like a lack of info, combined with his experiences from EQ Live You, being the all knowing expert of all things EQ2, could have simply answered his questions, or directed him to relevant posts by the developers, etc. That, however, wouldn't have given you the opportunity to lash out at someone for daring to question that EQ2 might not quite be the Second Coming. Instead you made a bunch of flames, most of which had little or nothing to do with the portions of his post you were addressing.

sparkatb

Please explain what his skill at playing the game has to do with the level of customization of what skills his character has?
Maybe you could explain precisely what he meant when he said "character building", he did not say "character customisation". A "special character" what is that? I explained what a special character is, well one aspect.

I'm assuming you've played the game? You seem to be awfully knowledgable about the ease of grouping, and all that. So tell me how the grouping system works, please.
Yea sure:
- A "Looking for Group" tool is available
- Meeting people, playing with people, resulting in buddies...
- Buddy list
- The guild system, can ask if anyone wants to group
- Family system, similar to Guild but on a smaller scale
- Becoming known on your server, as a good/great player/person

Some people question things because they don't believe everything they read, either. In the case of his friend it sounds like a lack of info, combined with his experiences from EQ Live You, being the all knowing expert of all things EQ2, could have simply answered his questions,
Which i did, i confirmed that his friend was and/or probably/deffinetly wrong and for him not to go by what his friend has failed to read.

or directed him to relevant posts by the developers, etc.
Im not here to type a book for him, the EQ2 website and official forum is put there for a reason. I dont read that information for other peoples benefits, i do it for my enjoyment in knowing what the game will have on offer.

That, however, wouldn't have given you the opportunity to lash out at someone for daring to question that EQ2 might not quite be the Second Coming. Instead you made a bunch of flames, most of which had little or nothing to do with the portions of his post you were addressing.
Oh right, so what i said was "flaming", sure..
I never said anywhere aimed at the poster, but instead was aimed at his friend which you failed to identify that.
So sure, its ok for his friend to critique and slash something (EQ2) when he (the friend) clearly hasnt read any or much about the game, if thats not arrogant i dont know what is.

Twiz

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Originally posted by Anofalye

1 SoE plan on making soloing possible while working to get a group going, no more.  I dont know the form, but there will be something to make sure that after like 1 hour of soloing, you might as well log and wait for tomorrow to continue soloing.

---

I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure WoW was where they were talking about cutting xp the longer you grinded...

Excalibur

Thanx people for answering my question.

I am going to read some more stuff about the game on the boards and websites.

Another friend was lucky enough to get into the beta and he was very optimistic about the game.

I hope things are as good as the game looks like

Take care !

RemyVorender

Forced grouping makes for a stronger, tighter community and a better "multiplayer" experience all together, period. I'm sure the druids and a few other classes will still have the nack to solo if someone so chooses. Out of all the mmos ive played, my favorite ones force u to group, why the hell else would u wanna play mmos? so u can solo...and chat with friends?

If that's the case, go buy FABLE and invite some friends over to talk to

EQ: Quantis Erudite 60pal-Bristlebane
DAoC: Vrix Kobold 50skald-Percival
L2: Jorrad DE 25 Palus Knight-Kain
CoH: Funeral 23drk/drk Def-Infinity
AC2: Thex 30 Lug Sage-Thistledown
FFXI: Wrython Elv 55brd/nin-Carbuncle
SWG: Astaroth Twi CH/Pistol-Maxed
Horizons: Jorrad Fiend Spearman-Energy (playing)
RYL: Kazeth 15 Attk - Beta Tested (free and i still want my money back)
Other: AC1, AO, SB, EVE, RoE, PS, FL..

---And I still haven't found what I'm looking for---

Twiz

---

Originally posted by remyburke

Forced grouping makes for a stronger, tighter community and a better "multiplayer" experience all together, period. I'm sure the druids and a few other classes will still have the nack to solo if someone so chooses. Out of all the mmos ive played, my favorite ones force u to group, why the hell else would u wanna play mmos? so u can solo...and chat with friends?

---

Actually, there are times when I can only be on for an hour or so.  If I wait for a group, or even form one, by the time we would get where we wanted to go, about 10-20 minutes left.  I choose not to put others in this position.  So, for those short game periods, it IS nice to be able to do something positive with your character, vs sit in PoK and buff, buff, buff....now, if I have SEVERAL hours to play, I have no problem grouping and/or putting a group together.  It just makes sense to offer both options...

RemyVorender

LFG all day does get annoying, but that's what alts are for

EQ: Quantis Erudite 60pal-Bristlebane
DAoC: Vrix Kobold 50skald-Percival
L2: Jorrad DE 25 Palus Knight-Kain
CoH: Funeral 23drk/drk Def-Infinity
AC2: Thex 30 Lug Sage-Thistledown
FFXI: Wrython Elv 55brd/nin-Carbuncle
SWG: Astaroth Twi CH/Pistol-Maxed
Horizons: Jorrad Fiend Spearman-Energy (playing)
RYL: Kazeth 15 Attk - Beta Tested (free and i still want my money back)
Other: AC1, AO, SB, EVE, RoE, PS, FL..

---And I still haven't found what I'm looking for---

DerfelCadarn

I like grouping a hell of alot better than soloing. mmorpgs are meant for group- play a rpg if your into just soloing. Teamwork, taking on big and better mobs and socializing are all great things about grouping and why they are fun.

EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com

RemyVorender

Amen

--------------------
EQ: Quantis Erudite 60pal-Bristlebane
DAoC: Vrix Kobold 50skald-Percival
L2: Jorrad DE 25 Palus Knight-Kain
CoH: Funeral 23drk/drk Def-Infinity
AC2: Thex 30 Lug Sage-Thistledown
FFXI: Wrython Elv 55brd/nin-Carbuncle
SWG: Astaroth Twi CH/Pistol-Maxed
Horizons: Jorrad Fiend Spearman-Energy (playing)
RYL: Kazeth 15 Attk - Beta Tested (free and i still want my money back)
Other: AC1, AO, SB, EVE, RoE, PS, FL..

---And I still haven't found what I'm looking for---

Twiz

---

Originally posted by remyburke
LFG all day does get annoying, but that's what alts are for

---

Ummmmm....but if there is no soloing, what do you do with your alt? 

RemyVorender

there is always soloing in a mmo at the early levels, when they say a game is forced grouping generally they mean at mid to high lvls.  sorry i didnt think i had to paint a picture there.

EQ: Quantis Erudite 60pal-Bristlebane
DAoC: Vrix Kobold 50skald-Percival
L2: Jorrad DE 25 Palus Knight-Kain
CoH: Funeral 23drk/drk Def-Infinity
AC2: Thex 30 Lug Sage-Thistledown
FFXI: Wrython Elv 55brd/nin-Carbuncle
SWG: Astaroth Twi CH/Pistol-Maxed
Horizons: Jorrad 21 Fiend Spear-Chaos (playing)
RYL: Kazeth 15 Attk - Beta Tested (free and i still want my money back)
Other: AC1, AO, SB, EVE, RoE, PS, FL..

---And I still haven't found what I'm looking for---

vamse

so now everybody playing a mmo should group, we can do whatever we like, some people only want to group, others wanna solo, others wanna tradeskill, others wanna raid, and they can do whatever they like, saying that they can go play a regular rpg is bull...

I like to solo over grouping/raiding also, mmorpg's provide alot more content then regular rpg's, and also i like to talk with people, and sometimes I will group up for some stuff, and help/get help with some quests/stuff with some friends (that I met online, not rl friends)...

I get more satisfaction out of getting my own gear/stuff from solo kills then from group kills, also I like the challenge of killing mobs that are often flagged as 'group-mobs'...

Djinnx

thank you for your life story and theory on soloing. ^^

-Djinnx
Runestone: Guild of Destiny

Vercingitori

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Originally posted by Excalibur

One thing is the total lack of customization on character level (unless that has changed in the last 3-4 weeks), another thing is the reasoning from the Devs: We don't want to enable players to "nerf" themselves. Bah!!
So no learning from mistakes in character building, or learn to overcome any mistakes since you can't make any, and no sense of beeing any special kind of character except for what you own/wear.

---

Well this isn't DAoC, if you want that level of customization on your character go there. Seriously in an almost non-existant PvP environment you would never need that level of customization.

Twiz

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Originally posted by remyburke
there is always soloing in a mmo at the early levels, when they say a game is forced grouping generally they mean at mid to high lvls.  sorry i didnt think i had to paint a picture there.

---

Okay, usually I don't get into discussions like this...but...in EQ1, my main is a 59 cleric, with alts of 58 Paladin, 58 Shaman, 54 Druid, 49 Ranger (well, would be, but I quit because I got tired of NOT being able to advance anything but the Shaman or Druid BECAUSE they could solo).  Since I have been playing since day one of official release, I have made, played, and deleted just about every race/class combo.  As you can see from my remaining characters, I prefer Priest classes...and if it weren't for the fact the Shaman and Druid can solo, I would have quit long ago...so your argument about only playing alts in early levels is a moot point..., if I want to pay the bling bling to play an MMO, I should have other options than just grouping.  And before you start the argument about make friends, good player, yada yada...had lots of friends, in a great guild, and had a great reputation as a healer...heck, could even play main healer with my Pally, which most don't have a clue how to do.  So, in the end, the picture being painted should be...if you want the largest player base, provide for those that like grouping, those that like soloing, and those that like socializing, whether while grouping or soloing... 

Coldmeat

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Originally posted by Vercingitori
Originally posted by Excalibur
One thing is the total lack of customization on character level (unless that has changed in the last 3-4 weeks), another thing is the reasoning from the Devs: We don't want to enable players to "nerf" themselves. Bah!!
So no learning from mistakes in character building, or learn to overcome any mistakes since you can't make any, and no sense of beeing any special kind of character except for what you own/wear.
Well this isn't DAoC, if you want that level of customization on your character go there. Seriously in an almost non-existant PvP environment you would never need that level of customization.

---

It's supposedly a roleplaying game. Maybe I'm off base, but not everyone wants to roleplay the same cookie cutter character archetypes. Aside from Gary Gygax, who says a mage couldn't have any skill with a weapon other than the old stereotype staff/dagger? So, yes, I'd say he brings up a perfectly valid point in asking for the ability to make a character in the manner we choose, particularly in games touted as being roleplaying games. As an example, a favorite character from my pnp days was a rogue/mage character that specialized in illusionary spells, and made his living stealing from other mages.

Which is a large part of why I think more games need to move to skill based systems over strictly defined classes. Granted, they've taken a step or two in that direction with removing the race/class restrictions present in EQ, as far as I understand it, that is.

Vercingitori

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Originally posted by Coldmeat



It's supposedly a roleplaying game. Maybe I'm off base, but not everyone wants to roleplay the same cookie cutter character archetypes. Aside from Gary Gygax, who says a mage couldn't have any skill with a weapon other than the old stereotype staff/dagger? So, yes, I'd say he brings up a perfectly valid point in asking for the ability to make a character in the manner we choose, particularly in games touted as being roleplaying games. As an example, a favorite character from my pnp days was a rogue/mage character that specialized in illusionary spells, and made his living stealing from other mages.
Which is a large part of why I think more games need to move to skill based systems over strictly defined classes. Granted, they've taken a step or two in that direction with removing the race/class restrictions present in EQ, as far as I understand it, that is.

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That is a valid point, however it comes down to what you need. Using your example I can't imagine a single instance where that would come in handy. Granted it gives you the freedom to roleplay your character more realistically, but what if you can't find all that many npc mages to steal from in the game?

The point is, is that you can roleplay a rogue/mage if you want to given the current setup with all the effectiveness of a more in depth skill system. Just by roleplaying that type of character with emotes and that frame of mind. Nothing is stopping you from doing that. But adding in that level of customization just isn't needed and would make no sense in a game like this. All it would do is cause endless headaches for those that spec wrong or groups that are only looking for x specced class for groups and everyone else who didn't spec that way can go fornicate themselves with a decaying wood elf.

They see this all the time in DAoC. In theory that level of customization looks good, but is hardly ever implemented with more brain power than a fart can generate.