Single Player Endgame

Drezeks

So I was reading a thread, and someone wrote about how single player endgame is neglected in most games. Thats kind of true, I mean you can quest a ton, and end up with rewards far worse than grouping (at least in WoW).

But really, its true, single player is very shallow in most games that I have played once you reach max level. I think its something new games trying to 'beat wow' could really work on. And hey, it could probably work for all the niche games we want.

In EQ2 there was the splitpaw saga adventure pack you could buy, which opened up some group content, but most importantly it offered a solo dungeon, with a nice reward at the end. I don't think I have played any other mmo where you could solo a dungeon with bosses, and collect pretty decent rewards.

I think something like this would be great for adding another 'group' to mmo's endgame along with pvp and raiding/grouping.  In my limited vision I could see two ways of doing this:

1. Solo for Gear upgrades:

-You do a dungeon, its great fun and amazing, ultimately killing a boss tuned to your character class, that drops loot you can potentially use.

2.Solo for tradeable enhancements:

-You do the dungeon, its great...and the boss drops something raiders/pvpers/groupers would want to pay you for, and ultimately sell the "boe" gear they get to you.

 

There would obviously have to be tons more detail in the system, and it would be tedious making bosses challenging for each class, so you don't have 'the solo class' absolutely destroy them. Also, deciding how good the gear is compared to grouping/raiding gear. In order to make the gear more 'equal' to say raiding gear, maybe add lots of defensive stats to dps classes, and dps stats for tanks.

 

Would something like this be of interest to any of you? I mean I made the 2 different ideas for solo dungeons in a few minutes, so they aren't perfect or thought out well, and if theres actual implimentation of this in games already, I didn't know.

skeaser

Can you post the threat for us? I like juicy things.

spinach8puff

I wouldn't want an MMO like that. In my opinion if people want single player end game they should go play single player games that also offers multiplayer mode such as the Diablo and Dungeon Siege line of games. They can also pick up some Xbox games that offer online game play as well.

jakin

Originally posted by Drezeks 
There would obviously have to be tons more detail in the system, and it would be tedious making bosses challenging for each class, so you don't have 'the solo class' absolutely destroy them. Also, deciding how good the gear is compared to grouping/raiding gear. In order to make the gear more 'equal' to say raiding gear, maybe add lots of defensive stats to dps classes, and dps stats for tanks.

Right here is the main problem I would have with such a system.

In a game with 10 classes (for instance) that means the developers are creating what amounts to 10 different encounter spaces in order to best match the strengths and weaknesses of classes that were probably designed to rely on others (tanks on healers, dps on tanks, etc and so forth).  The "tank" version would have to tune down damage for instance, whereas the "healer" version would have to tune down mob strengths for the lower damage potential.  "Stealth" versions would need places where stealth is best used, etc.

Seeing as endgame content is usually pretty limited in a new MMO anyway - I'd much rather see developers concentrate on making 10 truly different endgame experiences than redoing the same one 10 times.  And I'm not even a big fan of "endgame" as it exists in the vast majority of MMOs today.

Venger

End game sucks for anyone not into raiding. 

End game needs to be completely redesigned or done away with completely.

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Drezeks


So I was reading a threat, and someone wrote about how single player endgame is neglected in most games. Thats kind of true, I mean you can quest a ton, and end up with rewards far worse than grouping (at least in WoW).
But really, its true, single player is very shallow in most games that I have played once you reach max level. I think its something new games trying to 'beat wow' could really work on. And hey, it could probably work for all the niche games we want.
In EQ2 there was the splitpaw saga adventure pack you could buy, which opened up some group content, but most importantly it offered a solo dungeon, with a nice reward at the end. I don't think I have played any other mmo where you could solo a dungeon with bosses, and collect pretty decent rewards.
I think something like this would be great for adding another 'group' to mmo's endgame along with pvp and raiding/grouping.  In my limited vision I could see two ways of doing this:
1. Solo for Gear upgrades:
-You do a dungeon, its great fun and amazing, ultimately killing a boss tuned to your character class, that drops loot you can potentially use.
2.Solo for tradeable enhancements:
-You do the dungeon, its great...and the boss drops something raiders/pvpers/groupers would want to pay you for, and ultimately sell the "boe" gear they get to you.
 
There would obviously have to be tons more detail in the system, and it would be tedious making bosses challenging for each class, so you don't have 'the solo class' absolutely destroy them. Also, deciding how good the gear is compared to grouping/raiding gear. In order to make the gear more 'equal' to say raiding gear, maybe add lots of defensive stats to dps classes, and dps stats for tanks.
 
Would something like this be of interest to any of you? I mean I made the 2 different ideas for solo dungeons in a few minutes, so they aren't perfect or thought out well, and if theres actual implimentation of this in games already, I didn't know.

 

Doesn't seem like "end game" just seems like more game.

I did 1-70 solo. Now what? 70-100. I did 70-100 solo now what? 100-120.

But instead of levels, you are substuting gear.

I did 1-70 solo, now what? Solo for more gear.

Thoric485

For singleplayer endgame there are like

you know

single player games?

Venger

Originally posted by Thoric485


For singleplayer endgame there are like
you know
single player games?

 

Yes because all the EQ clones have done so much for the genre.

Shame most people missed out on the brilliance of UO and developers have stuck with the tired EQ model.

Swiftblade13

Edit to avoid getting banned.... I'll reword my original post.

 

OP I hope no one takes views like yours seriously...

 

Why play a subscription to play a single player game?  Its bad enough leveling up is becoming single player... but now make end game single player too?

Drezeks

Right here is the main problem I would have with such a system.
In a game with 10 classes (for instance) that means the developers are creating what amounts to 10 different encounter spaces in order to best match the strengths and weaknesses of classes that were probably designed to rely on others (tanks on healers, dps on tanks, etc and so forth).  The "tank" version would have to tune down damage for instance, whereas the "healer" version would have to tune down mob strengths for the lower damage potential.  "Stealth" versions would need places where stealth is best used, etc.
Seeing as endgame content is usually pretty limited in a new MMO anyway - I'd much rather see developers concentrate on making 10 truly different endgame experiences than redoing the same one 10 times.  And I'm not even a big fan of "endgame" as it exists in the vast majority of MMOs today.

I think content in general is an area where developers are falling short right now, and while it may not be practical to balance it to 10 classes, balancing to the three archetypes would be far easier. Though, it would really be more like 4 depending on stealth mechanics. I think that is more reasonable, and they could try and do it like eq2, and do micro transactions for each dungeon they release.

As to the person who says it would just be another way to level, it could be done that way, and that is how most EQ clone endgames work.  However it could be more like my example two, where instead of questing for money, you go out and do an awesome dungeon and pick up materials for use in another area. I know personally I hate doing quests, they are to me, a horribly disguised grind...in the sense that instead of just killing stuff I have to travel back and forth killing stuff.

  Originally posted by Swiftblade13

OP I hope you die and burn in hell.

Hehe, I don't know how to quote multiple responses, but .

 

 

 

gcrouse

I will speak from WoW experience I think having a few solo end game type dungeons in the game would be very nice.

Reasons- most WoW players couldnt solo a difficult fight and it would add a sense of achievement and accomplishment to the game for others who can actually think and analyze the situation. Also though it would have to be somehow tailored to class specific say a warriors challenge is different than a priests but equally as hard to complete.

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by gcrouse


I will speak from WoW experience I think having a few solo end game type dungeons in the game would be very nice.
Reasons- most WoW players couldnt solo a difficult fight and it would add a sense of achievement and accomplishment to the game for others who can actually think and analyze the situation. Also though it would have to be somehow tailored to class specific say a warriors challenge is different than a priests but equally as hard to complete.

 

But what's the point of being online? You're in a dungeon, you're by your self, you need an online connection for what exactly?

Couldn't you just play Oblivion, and wouldn't that be the same thing? Or, why would Oblivion need to be online?

 

gcrouse

You cant get/find a group for everything in a game, some things are just ment to be done alone EVEN while online in a MMO. 

what i said was "a FEW"

If you are so alone-a-phobic as to not even allow 1 or 2 instances where someone could show some personal achievement, like hey look what i did ALONE then seek help :-)

and yes i just made up a word alone-a-phobic because im the decider, i can do that

 

Cynthe

Meh, as a solo player in an MMO world, end game should not even exist. What's the point of an evolving online world if there is an 'end game', and multiple end games after each expansion... I hate this formula someone torch it.

That said there's nothing wrong with a few solo dungeons as long as their are at most tiers and balanced by group dungeons. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing more dungeons that scale in difficulty according to how many party members you have. The full group mentality is also dieing and people prefer to adventure in small groups of 2-4 members.

Also if you don't raid there is no need for you to attain gear with raid stats, and if you raid you will obtain your gear while raiding... It seems to work fine like that and if there were other ways of obtaining this gear then it would unbalance the whole thing, would it not?

heremypet

Oh I suppose you could take wow instances and remove the elite attribute from the inhabitants creating a "solo version", but that would kind of trivialize the experience, but I suppose it would only do so for the soloer.  You would have to make a new drop table though.

I would rather play a non-instanced mmo though.

Ravanos

so basically you want to be able to play a game from level 1 to max without interacting with other players. ... and now you want to be able to gain uber gear and beat uber boss mobs without interacting with other players.

Um I know a couple games already like that

theres the final fantasy series

Oblivion

Fallout 3

Suikoden series<sp> older game very good

 

and if you want socail interaction why dont you just play them with your AOL instant messanger up (or whatever you wipper snappers are using to chat with your BFFs now)