One thing that the article really glosses over is the lack of population.
Yes, it is REALLY that low.
People aren't in Coronet, pleople aren't in Theed, but people aren't in Mos Eisley either, on most servers. People just aren't anywhere, period.
Last night, during US primetime, there were enough people to run exaclty ONE group of people doing heroics. That being eight people. And that was it, on a weekend day, during prime evening hours.
This is not happening on one or two servers, it is the one or two servers that have a "reasonable" population that are the exception.
Also not mentioned in the article, is that SOE refuses to have the devs spend time on fixing bugs. They won't. They simply say that in the time it would take to fix several long time and in some cases play breaking bugs, they can put out more "new" content. What does that say about SOEs long term plans?
The Hoth release and the just released TCG are a last attempt by SOE to grab a few more bucks.
Take the vet trial, see what's there, but don't bothering paying. Not worth it.
The game is tight, well programmed. Not as free as it used to be now that you're funneled into a profession - but they allow customization in the details of the profession. I used to like being able to train anything at all, but most people made templates the same anyway.
I agree with whoever said vets are returning - they are. Really old vets too. They prob burnt out of WoW and a few others and are looking up that old flame. It doesn't feel as full as it used too (by far on some servers) I don't get the SOE haters. Even toddlers cry less about their toys.
LOL... Good one.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Things are looking better for this game. I'm looking forward to the Hoth content just to sample it with my free month. The improved crafting sounds good with more reliance on player crafted goods. And lastly the character tranfers(Improved) for free from the low to high pop servers will be a good thing. So we'll see if SOE can't revive this game. See forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m
This game is not going to be 'Saved' The writing on the tombstone is there. SW:TOR is going to put the final nails in the coffin. SOE is just doing what Lucas is telling them to do. Ride it out until TOR is done and then pull the plug. What choice do they have. They have contractual obligations. Once TOR comes out SWG is done and over with.
As for the so called healthy population of this game? Well again that will change once TOR is out. People are only playing this game and biding time until Bioware is done.
Discount my thoughts if you want as you may call me a Jaded Vet. I have tried over and over again to get back into this game but each time I just could not justify it. I will wait out the time it will take for Bioware to finish and welcome The Old Republic. It won't be SWG but thats fine with me. I am done with SWG.
We have enough Youth, How about a Fountain of Intelligence?
Things are looking better for this game. I'm looking forward to the Hoth content just to sample it with my free month. The improved crafting sounds good with more reliance on player crafted goods. And lastly the character tranfers(Improved) for free from the low to high pop servers will be a good thing. So we'll see if SOE can't revive this game. See forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m
This game is not going to be 'Saved' The writing on the tombstone is there. SW:TOR is going to put the final nails in the coffin. SOE is just doing what Lucas is telling them to do. Ride it out until TOR is done and then pull the plug. What choice do they have. They have contractual obligations. Once TOR comes out SWG is done and over with.
As for the so called healthy population of this game? Well again that will change once TOR is out. People are only playing this game and biding time until Bioware is done.
Discount my thoughts if you want as you may call me a Jaded Vet. I have tried over and over again to get back into this game but each time I just could not justify it. I will wait out the time it will take for Bioware to finish and welcome The Old Republic. It won't be SWG but thats fine with me. I am done with SWG.
Don't respond to the viral marketers.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
One thing that the article really glosses over is the lack of population. Yes, it is REALLY that low. People aren't in Coronet, pleople aren't in Theed, but people aren't in Mos Eisley either, on most servers. People just aren't anywhere, period. Last night, during US primetime, there were enough people to run exaclty ONE group of people doing heroics. That being eight people. And that was it, on a weekend day, during prime evening hours. This is not happening on one or two servers, it is the one or two servers that have a "reasonable" population that are the exception. Also not mentioned in the article, is that SOE refuses to have the devs spend time on fixing bugs. They won't. They simply say that in the time it would take to fix several long time and in some cases play breaking bugs, they can put out more "new" content. What does that say about SOEs long term plans?
The Hoth release and the just released TCG are a last attempt by SOE to grab a few more bucks. Take the vet trial, see what's there, but don't bothering paying. Not worth it.
You're right i didnt mention population - I play two servers which happen to be well populated. The players base is consolidating themselves and will furhter consolidate in 09 when they offer the free transfers. I can always find pvp and can always find a heroic instance group if needed. Its unfortunate that vets log on and find dead servers.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Thanks Dal. As far as me going out of line Big time is truly debatable to the point that I can say that the decision has unjustly applied. In case you don't know of the roleplaying gems that got me banned , please read my blog here or on MySpace. I have more right to take my position about SOE and SWG then you could ever have a postion against me for doing so as Dal has already explained. I plan to be just as criticial of SOE as they were of me - all things being equal.
I don't care who is right and who is wrong.
What I do care about is that I am getting fed up that litterly EVERY article or post about ANY of SOE games is constantly being hijacked and bashed by old SWG vets!
It's getting old and it's getting sad! As how long since the NGE hit the SWG live servers? Over 4 years ago already?
I am a SWG vet myself! I hate SOE just as much for what they have done to maybe the best sandbox MMORPG ever!
But you know what? After about a year after the NGE and actually enjoying EverQuest2 I gave up on hating and moved on.
I played so many MMO's since then... and I have seen so many MMO's with potential failing misserably and going down the drain! Hurting the MMO industry more then SOE ever did with the NGE...
... that I come to think that SOE isn't all that bad afterall. Even tho they royally fucked up with the NGE update on SWG!
Cheers
And I don't care who you are either. This thread is about SWG. It is about "returning" vets. This isn't an article about another SOE game, this article is about SWG and is about Vets (which means Pre-NGE to most), so it implies a respose from the above.
And your first response to one of them was to suggest that they are mentally unstable and should seek help.
Sorry, you lost me there. I could not care less what your role was in the entire mess. This is not crashing any other game minus SWG.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Whoa buddy ! Lots of comments but not many on target. Contrary to what some may think, vets ARE returning, even without the "free" incentive. I've been around long enough to have a rather huge friends list; All the guys I knew before often ping me and ask for assistance getting back into the 'groove'. There is so much to re-learn that even this article is just the tip of the iceberg. But, that's a good thing, right? More content is what we always wanted. Its not the SWG you knew and frankly, its not the SOE you knew. Relatively speaking, they've been good about listening to the playerbase. . . just look at the new tweaks to BH and Medic currently on deck. Anyway, for those that do choose to revisit SWG, I hope this article gets you started and oriented in the right direction. Oh, one thing I forgot to mention in that article is that there ARE dead servers - many have already transferred to the larger servers such as Starsider, Bria, Bloodfin, Chilastra, etc. Early 09 brings free server transfers . . .
The article states that the need for centers of interest are no longer viable, which is completely wrong since I played a ME just four months ago. There is a serious demand for Ent Buffs on top of the other three lines you need to fill to be viable.
Playing this ENT. On Chimeara (which still (did) has a decent pop), I encountered nothing near the lines I used to see (I am EST time) in Coronet for my former Doc buffs. Even WITH the new player search functions, I saw perhaps 1/5 the random tell for a buff I used to see. Of course, this is assuming you think Entertainer buffs are currently worth while. IMHO, they currently are the longest lasting, most configurable, easiest to obtain, and blatantly useful buffs in the game.
So, BH and Medic are being revisited, AGAIN. This is what? The third time for each since the NGE? How much work is going to be nerfed by SOE for current BH and Medics. How many people are going to flock to the professions as a result, and how many more times will the other professions be revisited as a result?
They may be doing "better" than the initial NGE. I mean, how couldn't they? What the "returning vets" may not realize is that the NGE was only the beginning of several mini-nge's to follow. They have built up, Jedi, Bounty Hunters, Medics, Commandos, Officers, Spies...only to turn right around with a "revamp" to nerf them, their equiptment, and moreover their TIME over and over again.
The player economy is out of control, it is currently at a status of Lineage 2 proportions. I used to be able to buy a suit of PvP worthy armor of 300K. And I wore it ONLY for PvP.
Conclusion: Here is my guide for returning vets: 50 Million credits for a decent set of PvP armor, which SOE will alter the system to make it useless in 2 months. When you left, you still remembered the day when you were proud as hell to make your first million. If you go back, and actually spend the time to reinvest, prepare yourself to be screwed all over again. (and again, and again).
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Err, ok I am puzzled about two things. One, what about this new cloak? Where does the quest start or who drops that thing? Same to the 5th gen sabre, where does it come from? Thx.
The New Cloak is rewarded from finishing the Collection for it. There are 2 to choose from (Lightside Brown & Orange and Darkside Black & Red). You have to complete 7 sub collection for it. a) Complete the collection for the Jedi Waist Pack. b) Complete the collection for Meditative State, c) Colletion for 1-H 5th gen Lightsaber, d) Collection for 2-H 5th gen Lightsaber, e) Collection for Polearm 5th gen lightsaber, f) Defeat a Lightside Jedi [triggered spawn] g) Defeat a Darkside Jedi [triggered spawn]. The collection is started with talking to an Elder Jedi in a Tyrenna park. Talking to him starts all of these collections.
The requirements for the 5th gen sabers are varied but most call for kill quotas in the Heroic Encounters. Once earned you are rewarded with a perminent schamatic that allows you to make a 5th gen saber (holds 5 power crystals) in its unique image or any other hilt in the Jedi's schamatic list. This collection was published with the update that allows Anctient Krayts to drop Flawless Pearls, again.
Huh, I didn't know you were the new correspondent here Inat Grats on the position
Good guide overall, although I do recommend checking out some of the stickies in the SWG General forum here for those interested in checking out the game as is has some links to some useful guides on the official forums.
Also, although the armour is pretty cool looking, I question the recommendation to "Get enough commendations in Restuss to 'buy' factional Spec Ops armor." Armour from an AS would be a better recommendation as the resists and potential stats are far superior.
The game is tight, well programmed. Not as free as it used to be now that you're funneled into a profession - but they allow customization in the details of the profession. I used to like being able to train anything at all, but most people made templates the same anyway.
I agree with whoever said vets are returning - they are. Really old vets too. They prob burnt out of WoW and a few others and are looking up that old flame. It doesn't feel as full as it used too (by far on some servers) I don't get the SOE haters. Even toddlers cry less about their toys.
LOL... Good one.
I played both, I loved pre-NGE, but it's the truth - SWG is technically more reliable, better balanced and has tons more content. If you don't know then you don't know, but it is much better technically.
I don't currently play the game and not selling anyone on it - but it is better overall (just not as flexable).
I often suggest that returning vets try Jedi first. They're easy to play and forgiving - making a mistake won't kill you. It can be fun too; however, most vets enjoyed SWG when it was more challenging to play. When they get tired of easy mode Jedi, I suggest they choose a profession more suitable to their play style. BH and Smuggler are more challenging to play and dare I say, require slightly more skill to play successfully.
[/quote]
LAWLZ
That's all I needed to read to know the game was still crap and not true to the Star Wars genre still. Smugglers require MORE skill to play than 'easy mode Jedi.' Yup... I'm sold... I'm comin' back!
hahahaha... right.
It may not seem it, but I actually appreciate this article. It saved me money. Thanks!
[quote] I often suggest that returning vets try Jedi first. They're easy to play and forgiving - making a mistake won't kill you. It can be fun too; however, most vets enjoyed SWG when it was more challenging to play. When they get tired of easy mode Jedi, I suggest they choose a profession more suitable to their play style. BH and Smuggler are more challenging to play and dare I say, require slightly more skill to play successfully. [/quote] LAWLZ That's all I needed to read to know the game was still crap and not true to the Star Wars genre still. Smugglers require MORE skill to play than 'easy mode Jedi.' Yup... I'm sold... I'm comin' back!
hahahaha... right. It may not seem it, but I actually appreciate this article. It saved me money. Thanks!
An aspect of pre-NGE that many miss is the complexity of playing. The NGE made it so simple - the post-NGE era has brought some complexity back. Aside from arguing about whether it should be a starting profession or not, there is no arguement that jedi is easy to play. Smuggler is much more challenging to play successfully - and more fun too! I play smuggler so I could be biased when I say that it the best designed profession in SWG currently. The balance of offense-defense-utility is perfect.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
[quote] I often suggest that returning vets try Jedi first. They're easy to play and forgiving - making a mistake won't kill you. It can be fun too; however, most vets enjoyed SWG when it was more challenging to play. When they get tired of easy mode Jedi, I suggest they choose a profession more suitable to their play style. BH and Smuggler are more challenging to play and dare I say, require slightly more skill to play successfully. [/quote] LAWLZ That's all I needed to read to know the game was still crap and not true to the Star Wars genre still. Smugglers require MORE skill to play than 'easy mode Jedi.' Yup... I'm sold... I'm comin' back!
hahahaha... right. It may not seem it, but I actually appreciate this article. It saved me money. Thanks!
An aspect of pre-NGE that many miss is the complexity of playing. The NGE made it so simple - the post-NGE era has brought some complexity back. Aside from arguing about whether it should be a starting profession or not, there is no arguement that jedi is easy to play. Smuggler is much more challenging to play successfully - and more fun too! I play smuggler so I could be biased when I say that it the best designed profession in SWG currently. The balance of offense-defense-utility is perfect.
My main is a Elder Smuggler and I play often. The flaw with the profession is its meta-game of smuggling. I lacks depth as its simply pizza delivery missions with a single attack at times. Nothing inspiring with it. The revamp of weaponcrafting made the ultimate reward near useless. Mudflation as I see it. The one facet that would help is making the "contraband" had use beyond static delivery object.
I would never change professions on that toon, however. BEER and PIE for all.
To me, learning everything all over again is no content and no fun. It's just a hassle. Retrofitting the UI? Why should I? For the promise that I might have fun? It would be a whole lot more fun if I didn't have to research and mess with the thing I was enjoying successfully until SOE decided they weren't going to give me the thing I enjoyed anymore.
Maybe I'm old fashioned or this genre isn't for me anymore, but I like to have a rulebook and good support from CSRs in both the chatroom and ingame. I can't get that in this new, post-NGE way of running a game. The more time passes by, the more someone has to catch up on, until at some point, it's more trouble than it's worth. People shouldn't sort through three years of patch notes and forum posts just to learn the software they bought and paid for. I'd rather get into a new game without all that baggage.
SWG just changes too fast and too radically from patch to patch to make it worth my while. History shows that if you like something in this game, it will change into something you don't like. The author here says that the staff listens to the playerbase, and to me that's just as bad as not listening. Because the problem with SWG isn't that the devs do or do not listen. The problem with SWG is that the devs assume too much of a prerogative to change things like basic mechanics and rules, never allowing anyone to ever feel like they understand the thing they play.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
We got in on SWG right at the "end" back in the day, when things apparently were falling apart, though we didnt know it at the time. Frankly we were quite lost, and seemed to get more and more lost every time we returned to the game, no doubt as these changes were being made. Being SW fans, we held out hope that one day it would all fall into place. YAY for us, and for you!
I'll stick with my resolution -- never giving SOE a dime. Nor the population number support they'd get from me coming back for a month. But enjoy! Each to his own.
Shava
Im with you.
SOE wont get any of my money ever again for any MMO until they can prove that another NGE wont happen.
The article fails on one serious issue....
MMO's are about investing time and money into your avatar. SOE blatently and purposely violated this cardinal rule of MMO's. Why should I ever play any of their MMO's again if theyre willing to take my subscription money and in essence steal it ? I and 200,000 other players had our money used to create the abomination of the NGE.
It still pisses me off that current NGE players are enjoying a game developed on my stolen dime. And I dont care how long it takes, SOE gets nothing until Smedley is gone and I see real changes in how they treat players
Im with you. SOE wont get any of my money ever again for any MMO until they can prove that another NGE wont happen. The article fails on one serious issue.... MMO's are about investing time and money into your avatar. SOE blatently and purposely violated this cardinal rule of MMO's. Why should I ever play any of their MMO's again if theyre willing to take my subscription money and in essence steal it ? I and 200,000 other players had our money used to create the abomination of the NGE. It still pisses me off that current NGE players are enjoying a game developed on my stolen dime. And I dont care how long it takes, SOE gets nothing until Smedley is gone and I see real changes in how they treat players
LOL - I never even thought of that... I was just unhappy they killed my game! But that they even did it with my money? They're really clever, they are!
They never cease to impress me ^^
And isn't there a rule against cursing in the forum conduct thingy or something? You said the Sm-word...
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
This is assuming that any % of true vets rly want to come back to the game.
NEVER
All true SWG vets are here:
www.swtor.com
anxiously awaiting a game of true quality. Don't believe me, look at the "SWG Server Reunion" threads. Hundreds if not thousands of people from each pre-CU server have checked in.
And a q: why would they need to consolidate the player base w/ free transfers? Because subscriptions are bare-minimum, and they're trying to shave overhead costs, because...
SWG = DEAD
Cinori Aluben - CSM6 2011 Fix The Little Things First! www.littlethingsfirst.com EVE-Online
For me, just the thought of returning to SWG just makes me sick! And I really mean it! After 3 years in that game, with hundreds of hours spent on it, I simply cant stand the game anymore, since my relationship to it levels the same you could have with a cheating ex-girlfriend! Not good! Which is very sad! SWG had everything! A good story, a good technical platform, immersion, possibility of going deep into the game with specializing, A very well made crafting system, a very well made combat system, Lots of characters/classes with depht, a working goal! Something different then just killing another high ranking mob! Posibillity of achieving something! JEDI! A thorougly done PvP system, A thoroughly done PvE system etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. To sum it up: the game had a bright future! Until the NGE. The technical platform changed. Including the combat system! Now it was all twitch/FPS. Crafting system went to hell. And with no decay no need to craft. Game and Class immersion and depth dissapeared. Jedi got a all-round standard! Classes got removed and simplified. There are so many other things too, most I have thankfully forgotten. Except for one thing: my hate towards SOE who had ruined my gaming experience! After 3 years with god know how many hours spend there - more hours then which is good for me...many days with 17 hours while getting my jedi - I simply cant return! I have done it a few times, but I stopped doing that when I was close to throwing up! HOW CAN I RETURN TO SOMEONE WHO BETRAYED ME?? SOMEONE WHO DID NOT LISTEN TO ME , MY FRIENDS, AND FELLOW PLAYERS WHO SAID THAT THIS WAS REALLY BAD FOR THE GAME??? HECK! THEY EVEN BANNED US INSTEAD OF TAKING THE BLOODY DISCUSSION!! They could throw a year free subscription my way, I would not even log in to the game! Its dead! Call it whatever you like NGE II; im permanently gone! SWG is dead! However the wound is still there! And its deep! The money is not a object, but my investment in that game is! Or, should I say was! Thankfully I found solace in CCP's EVE ONLINE. At least those devs knows how to listen, and how to treat their fellow gamers! I have been there for three years now, and there are no NGE to be seen on the horizon in that game! So thanks for me.
You know what I don't understand? After 3-4 years people are still pissed about SOE......they still post and outnumber the current players......and not one company has tried to copy SWG!!!!!
I mean if people are STILL talking about a game they quit years ago wouldn't you think SOMEONE would say "Hey, everyone does a WOW clone....and we could be one of those people, but lets try and make ourselves the number 2 game by totally ripping off every good idea SWG had".
You would think at least one company would try
There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't
You know what I don't understand? After 3-4 years people are still pissed about SOE......they still post and outnumber the current players......and not one company has tried to copy SWG!!!!!
I mean if people are STILL talking about a game they quit years ago wouldn't you think SOMEONE would say "Hey, everyone does a WOW clone....and we could be one of those people, but lets try and make ourselves the number 2 game by totally ripping off every good idea SWG had".
You would think at least one company would try
Follow Raph Koster work. He is helping a new startup and may impliment more of his ideas there.
Why hasn't another company made a Pre-CU like game? Because the market as a whole identified that world simulators "sandbox" MMORPG's appeal to a smaller market of mature achievers. The simpler Linear game MMO should appeal to the younger quick gratification Larger Market that is identfied with WOW's success. Look at the sub numbers on MMOChart.com and compare. SWG 275-300k subs at best to WOW's 11 Million. IP holders don't care to take risks on MMO experiments. They only want to capitalize on thier property with tried and succesful games systems. Its the selling " a box" mentality that is killing this market instead of realizing that MMO's are social organisms that can grow if properly developed and expanded within thier understandable limits. One of the biggest mistakes of all these companies is trying to make a game that appeals to "everyone" instead of the fans of that IP or genere.
To the SOE haters, remember that SOE developes and runs SWG. Lucas Arts approves, promotes and markets the game based on thier market research. LA even handles the Tech Support seperate from SOE's other games. "Hand-in-hand" these two companies made SWG what you despise today. Practices on both sides are at falt. SWTOR has a good start with a fresh company with learned lessons. It has the benefit of being a property spawned from a PC Game and a prior success to the company (KOTOR) just like Warcraft. The downfall, however, will be the lack of "sandbox" elements that prevails in the current market. The positive side of SWTOR is the introduction of story directed content by the top developer of the format which seems a natural step in MMO tech.
I think the main point that this article failed to consider, that there really is no game for a veteran to really return to. The changes made by SOE completely destroyed the player driven economy and they have completely failed to address that mistake in any patch since.
As to this SWTOR comment:
"The positive side of SWTOR is the introduction of story directed content by the top developer of the format which seems a natural step in MMO tech. "
If Lotro is not strong story driven content, I don't know what is. So I have to disagree that anything Bioware is doing is anything innovative, but we will have to wait and see what they come up with. I have reservations that the game will be just another jedi themepark, which will be fine with many people, just won't be much to reconcile the SWG vets.
Contrary to what some may think, vets ARE returning, even without the "free" incentive.
Then this begs the question who are they replacing because It's been my experience that the server listings have not increased within the last year. In fact it looks to me that it's declined somewhat - especially since last May.
Is there a revolving door of subscriptions with SWG? If so this doesn't give a good impression of the status of this game.
I hear some people say that many vets are returning but my friends list is certainly empty. And so is my buddy's firends list that is quite long as he was the mayor of our city and kept an extensive list of citizens and ex-citizens. I don't think he ever removed a single name from his list from June'03 to Nov'05.
Contrary to what some may think, vets ARE returning, even without the "free" incentive.
Then this begs the question who are they replacing because It's been my experience that the server listings have not increased within the last year. In fact it looks to me that it's declined somewhat - especially since last May.
Is there a revolving door of subscriptions with SWG? If so this doesn't give a good impression of the status of this game.
I hear some people say that many vets are returning but my friends list is certainly empty. And so is my buddy's firends list that is quite long as he was the mayor of our city and kept an extensive list of citizens and ex-citizens. I don't think he ever removed a single name from his list from June'03 to Nov'05.
they're not replacing anyone; they're joining the existing community made up of vets who never left, new players, and vets who have returned. The server listing has never been a good measure of population so its tough to pass judegement based on that 'metric'. The only way to know for sure is to check it out for yourself. There is certainly no denying that there are dead servers and that the community is taking it upon itself to consolidate on 5-10 core servers depending on their timezone and playstyle. Just last night, we had maybe 20v20 pvp that ended up breaking up into several instance groups. The community is there - its just not where you remember it being.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
The server listing has never been a good measure of population so its tough to pass judegement based on that 'metric'. The only way to know for sure is to check it out for yourself.
Can you explain how it is not a good measure?
And BTW I've had 1/4 of both last year and this year to play for free. I have checked it out myself.
Comments
One thing that the article really glosses over is the lack of population.
Yes, it is REALLY that low.
People aren't in Coronet, pleople aren't in Theed, but people aren't in Mos Eisley either, on most servers. People just aren't anywhere, period.
Last night, during US primetime, there were enough people to run exaclty ONE group of people doing heroics. That being eight people. And that was it, on a weekend day, during prime evening hours.
This is not happening on one or two servers, it is the one or two servers that have a "reasonable" population that are the exception.
Also not mentioned in the article, is that SOE refuses to have the devs spend time on fixing bugs. They won't. They simply say that in the time it would take to fix several long time and in some cases play breaking bugs, they can put out more "new" content. What does that say about SOEs long term plans?
The Hoth release and the just released TCG are a last attempt by SOE to grab a few more bucks.
Take the vet trial, see what's there, but don't bothering paying. Not worth it.
LOL... Good one.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
This game is not going to be 'Saved' The writing on the tombstone is there. SW:TOR is going to put the final nails in the coffin. SOE is just doing what Lucas is telling them to do. Ride it out until TOR is done and then pull the plug. What choice do they have. They have contractual obligations. Once TOR comes out SWG is done and over with.
As for the so called healthy population of this game? Well again that will change once TOR is out. People are only playing this game and biding time until Bioware is done.
Discount my thoughts if you want as you may call me a Jaded Vet. I have tried over and over again to get back into this game but each time I just could not justify it. I will wait out the time it will take for Bioware to finish and welcome The Old Republic. It won't be SWG but thats fine with me. I am done with SWG.
We have enough Youth, How about a Fountain of Intelligence?
This game is not going to be 'Saved' The writing on the tombstone is there. SW:TOR is going to put the final nails in the coffin. SOE is just doing what Lucas is telling them to do. Ride it out until TOR is done and then pull the plug. What choice do they have. They have contractual obligations. Once TOR comes out SWG is done and over with.
As for the so called healthy population of this game? Well again that will change once TOR is out. People are only playing this game and biding time until Bioware is done.
Discount my thoughts if you want as you may call me a Jaded Vet. I have tried over and over again to get back into this game but each time I just could not justify it. I will wait out the time it will take for Bioware to finish and welcome The Old Republic. It won't be SWG but thats fine with me. I am done with SWG.
Don't respond to the viral marketers.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
You're right i didnt mention population - I play two servers which happen to be well populated. The players base is consolidating themselves and will furhter consolidate in 09 when they offer the free transfers. I can always find pvp and can always find a heroic instance group if needed. Its unfortunate that vets log on and find dead servers.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
I don't care who is right and who is wrong.
What I do care about is that I am getting fed up that litterly EVERY article or post about ANY of SOE games is constantly being hijacked and bashed by old SWG vets!
It's getting old and it's getting sad! As how long since the NGE hit the SWG live servers? Over 4 years ago already?
I am a SWG vet myself! I hate SOE just as much for what they have done to maybe the best sandbox MMORPG ever!
But you know what? After about a year after the NGE and actually enjoying EverQuest2 I gave up on hating and moved on.
I played so many MMO's since then... and I have seen so many MMO's with potential failing misserably and going down the drain! Hurting the MMO industry more then SOE ever did with the NGE...
... that I come to think that SOE isn't all that bad afterall. Even tho they royally fucked up with the NGE update on SWG!
Cheers
And I don't care who you are either. This thread is about SWG. It is about "returning" vets. This isn't an article about another SOE game, this article is about SWG and is about Vets (which means Pre-NGE to most), so it implies a respose from the above.
And your first response to one of them was to suggest that they are mentally unstable and should seek help.
Sorry, you lost me there. I could not care less what your role was in the entire mess. This is not crashing any other game minus SWG.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
The article states that the need for centers of interest are no longer viable, which is completely wrong since I played a ME just four months ago. There is a serious demand for Ent Buffs on top of the other three lines you need to fill to be viable.
Playing this ENT. On Chimeara (which still (did) has a decent pop), I encountered nothing near the lines I used to see (I am EST time) in Coronet for my former Doc buffs. Even WITH the new player search functions, I saw perhaps 1/5 the random tell for a buff I used to see. Of course, this is assuming you think Entertainer buffs are currently worth while. IMHO, they currently are the longest lasting, most configurable, easiest to obtain, and blatantly useful buffs in the game.
So, BH and Medic are being revisited, AGAIN. This is what? The third time for each since the NGE? How much work is going to be nerfed by SOE for current BH and Medics. How many people are going to flock to the professions as a result, and how many more times will the other professions be revisited as a result?
They may be doing "better" than the initial NGE. I mean, how couldn't they? What the "returning vets" may not realize is that the NGE was only the beginning of several mini-nge's to follow. They have built up, Jedi, Bounty Hunters, Medics, Commandos, Officers, Spies...only to turn right around with a "revamp" to nerf them, their equiptment, and moreover their TIME over and over again.
The player economy is out of control, it is currently at a status of Lineage 2 proportions. I used to be able to buy a suit of PvP worthy armor of 300K. And I wore it ONLY for PvP.
Conclusion: Here is my guide for returning vets: 50 Million credits for a decent set of PvP armor, which SOE will alter the system to make it useless in 2 months. When you left, you still remembered the day when you were proud as hell to make your first million. If you go back, and actually spend the time to reinvest, prepare yourself to be screwed all over again. (and again, and again).
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
The New Cloak is rewarded from finishing the Collection for it. There are 2 to choose from (Lightside Brown & Orange and Darkside Black & Red). You have to complete 7 sub collection for it. a) Complete the collection for the Jedi Waist Pack. b) Complete the collection for Meditative State, c) Colletion for 1-H 5th gen Lightsaber, d) Collection for 2-H 5th gen Lightsaber, e) Collection for Polearm 5th gen lightsaber, f) Defeat a Lightside Jedi [triggered spawn] g) Defeat a Darkside Jedi [triggered spawn]. The collection is started with talking to an Elder Jedi in a Tyrenna park. Talking to him starts all of these collections.
The requirements for the 5th gen sabers are varied but most call for kill quotas in the Heroic Encounters. Once earned you are rewarded with a perminent schamatic that allows you to make a 5th gen saber (holds 5 power crystals) in its unique image or any other hilt in the Jedi's schamatic list. This collection was published with the update that allows Anctient Krayts to drop Flawless Pearls, again.
Huh, I didn't know you were the new correspondent here Inat
Grats on the position 
Good guide overall, although I do recommend checking out some of the stickies in the SWG General forum here for those interested in checking out the game as is has some links to some useful guides on the official forums.
Also, although the armour is pretty cool looking, I question the recommendation to "Get enough commendations in Restuss to 'buy' factional Spec Ops armor." Armour from an AS would be a better recommendation as the resists and potential stats are far superior.
LOL... Good one.
I played both, I loved pre-NGE, but it's the truth - SWG is technically more reliable, better balanced and has tons more content. If you don't know then you don't know, but it is much better technically.
I don't currently play the game and not selling anyone on it - but it is better overall (just not as flexable).
[quote]
I often suggest that returning vets try Jedi first. They're easy to play and forgiving - making a mistake won't kill you. It can be fun too; however, most vets enjoyed SWG when it was more challenging to play. When they get tired of easy mode Jedi, I suggest they choose a profession more suitable to their play style. BH and Smuggler are more challenging to play and dare I say, require slightly more skill to play successfully.
[/quote]
LAWLZ
That's all I needed to read to know the game was still crap and not true to the Star Wars genre still. Smugglers require MORE skill to play than 'easy mode Jedi.' Yup... I'm sold... I'm comin' back!
hahahaha... right.
It may not seem it, but I actually appreciate this article. It saved me money. Thanks!
An aspect of pre-NGE that many miss is the complexity of playing. The NGE made it so simple - the post-NGE era has brought some complexity back. Aside from arguing about whether it should be a starting profession or not, there is no arguement that jedi is easy to play. Smuggler is much more challenging to play successfully - and more fun too! I play smuggler so I could be biased when I say that it the best designed profession in SWG currently. The balance of offense-defense-utility is perfect.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
An aspect of pre-NGE that many miss is the complexity of playing. The NGE made it so simple - the post-NGE era has brought some complexity back. Aside from arguing about whether it should be a starting profession or not, there is no arguement that jedi is easy to play. Smuggler is much more challenging to play successfully - and more fun too! I play smuggler so I could be biased when I say that it the best designed profession in SWG currently. The balance of offense-defense-utility is perfect.
My main is a Elder Smuggler and I play often. The flaw with the profession is its meta-game of smuggling. I lacks depth as its simply pizza delivery missions with a single attack at times. Nothing inspiring with it. The revamp of weaponcrafting made the ultimate reward near useless. Mudflation as I see it. The one facet that would help is making the "contraband" had use beyond static delivery object.
I would never change professions on that toon, however. BEER and PIE for all.
To me, learning everything all over again is no content and no fun. It's just a hassle. Retrofitting the UI? Why should I? For the promise that I might have fun? It would be a whole lot more fun if I didn't have to research and mess with the thing I was enjoying successfully until SOE decided they weren't going to give me the thing I enjoyed anymore.
Maybe I'm old fashioned or this genre isn't for me anymore, but I like to have a rulebook and good support from CSRs in both the chatroom and ingame. I can't get that in this new, post-NGE way of running a game. The more time passes by, the more someone has to catch up on, until at some point, it's more trouble than it's worth. People shouldn't sort through three years of patch notes and forum posts just to learn the software they bought and paid for. I'd rather get into a new game without all that baggage.
SWG just changes too fast and too radically from patch to patch to make it worth my while. History shows that if you like something in this game, it will change into something you don't like. The author here says that the staff listens to the playerbase, and to me that's just as bad as not listening. Because the problem with SWG isn't that the devs do or do not listen. The problem with SWG is that the devs assume too much of a prerogative to change things like basic mechanics and rules, never allowing anyone to ever feel like they understand the thing they play.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Inat, you are only doing this to keep your post count above mine....like you do on all the other boards
Seriously though...grats on the position and that was a nice summary. Look forward to more...and I'm sure I'll see you back in game...one day :P
Hubbard, it's a great article! Thanks!
We got in on SWG right at the "end" back in the day, when things apparently were falling apart, though we didnt know it at the time. Frankly we were quite lost, and seemed to get more and more lost every time we returned to the game, no doubt as these changes were being made. Being SW fans, we held out hope that one day it would all fall into place. YAY for us, and for you!
Im with you.
SOE wont get any of my money ever again for any MMO until they can prove that another NGE wont happen.
The article fails on one serious issue....
MMO's are about investing time and money into your avatar. SOE blatently and purposely violated this cardinal rule of MMO's. Why should I ever play any of their MMO's again if theyre willing to take my subscription money and in essence steal it ? I and 200,000 other players had our money used to create the abomination of the NGE.
It still pisses me off that current NGE players are enjoying a game developed on my stolen dime. And I dont care how long it takes, SOE gets nothing until Smedley is gone and I see real changes in how they treat players
LOL - I never even thought of that... I was just unhappy they killed my game! But that they even did it with my money? They're really clever, they are!
They never cease to impress me ^^
And isn't there a rule against cursing in the forum conduct thingy or something? You said the Sm-word...
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
- Will Wright
HAH
HAHAH
HAHAHAH
This is assuming that any % of true vets rly want to come back to the game.
NEVER
All true SWG vets are here:
www.swtor.com
anxiously awaiting a game of true quality. Don't believe me, look at the "SWG Server Reunion" threads. Hundreds if not thousands of people from each pre-CU server have checked in.
And a q: why would they need to consolidate the player base w/ free transfers? Because subscriptions are bare-minimum, and they're trying to shave overhead costs, because...
SWG = DEAD
Cinori Aluben - CSM6 2011
Fix The Little Things First!
www.littlethingsfirst.com
EVE-Online
You know what I don't understand? After 3-4 years people are still pissed about SOE......they still post and outnumber the current players......and not one company has tried to copy SWG!!!!!
I mean if people are STILL talking about a game they quit years ago wouldn't you think SOMEONE would say "Hey, everyone does a WOW clone....and we could be one of those people, but lets try and make ourselves the number 2 game by totally ripping off every good idea SWG had".
You would think at least one company would try
There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't
Follow Raph Koster work. He is helping a new startup and may impliment more of his ideas there.
Why hasn't another company made a Pre-CU like game? Because the market as a whole identified that world simulators "sandbox" MMORPG's appeal to a smaller market of mature achievers. The simpler Linear game MMO should appeal to the younger quick gratification Larger Market that is identfied with WOW's success. Look at the sub numbers on MMOChart.com and compare. SWG 275-300k subs at best to WOW's 11 Million. IP holders don't care to take risks on MMO experiments. They only want to capitalize on thier property with tried and succesful games systems. Its the selling " a box" mentality that is killing this market instead of realizing that MMO's are social organisms that can grow if properly developed and expanded within thier understandable limits. One of the biggest mistakes of all these companies is trying to make a game that appeals to "everyone" instead of the fans of that IP or genere.
To the SOE haters, remember that SOE developes and runs SWG. Lucas Arts approves, promotes and markets the game based on thier market research. LA even handles the Tech Support seperate from SOE's other games. "Hand-in-hand" these two companies made SWG what you despise today. Practices on both sides are at falt. SWTOR has a good start with a fresh company with learned lessons. It has the benefit of being a property spawned from a PC Game and a prior success to the company (KOTOR) just like Warcraft. The downfall, however, will be the lack of "sandbox" elements that prevails in the current market. The positive side of SWTOR is the introduction of story directed content by the top developer of the format which seems a natural step in MMO tech.
I think the main point that this article failed to consider, that there really is no game for a veteran to really return to. The changes made by SOE completely destroyed the player driven economy and they have completely failed to address that mistake in any patch since.
As to this SWTOR comment:
"The positive side of SWTOR is the introduction of story directed content by the top developer of the format which seems a natural step in MMO tech. "
If Lotro is not strong story driven content, I don't know what is. So I have to disagree that anything Bioware is doing is anything innovative, but we will have to wait and see what they come up with. I have reservations that the game will be just another jedi themepark, which will be fine with many people, just won't be much to reconcile the SWG vets.
Then this begs the question who are they replacing because It's been my experience that the server listings have not increased within the last year. In fact it looks to me that it's declined somewhat - especially since last May.
Is there a revolving door of subscriptions with SWG? If so this doesn't give a good impression of the status of this game.
I hear some people say that many vets are returning but my friends list is certainly empty. And so is my buddy's firends list that is quite long as he was the mayor of our city and kept an extensive list of citizens and ex-citizens. I don't think he ever removed a single name from his list from June'03 to Nov'05.
Then this begs the question who are they replacing because It's been my experience that the server listings have not increased within the last year. In fact it looks to me that it's declined somewhat - especially since last May.
Is there a revolving door of subscriptions with SWG? If so this doesn't give a good impression of the status of this game.
I hear some people say that many vets are returning but my friends list is certainly empty. And so is my buddy's firends list that is quite long as he was the mayor of our city and kept an extensive list of citizens and ex-citizens. I don't think he ever removed a single name from his list from June'03 to Nov'05.
they're not replacing anyone; they're joining the existing community made up of vets who never left, new players, and vets who have returned. The server listing has never been a good measure of population so its tough to pass judegement based on that 'metric'. The only way to know for sure is to check it out for yourself. There is certainly no denying that there are dead servers and that the community is taking it upon itself to consolidate on 5-10 core servers depending on their timezone and playstyle. Just last night, we had maybe 20v20 pvp that ended up breaking up into several instance groups. The community is there - its just not where you remember it being.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Can you explain how it is not a good measure?
And BTW I've had 1/4 of both last year and this year to play for free. I have checked it out myself.