Who here just wants to kill stuff?

Roosevelt

In an MMO.

Roosevelt

Also the reason I post this is because of my recent run in with Spellborn. Another game where I am forced onto a rail and simply train through all of the content. Why is it that since the days after UO/EQ we are now forced into the mindless grind unable to wrench ourselves from it? Why is it now that games reward us with experiance for completeling menial taks likes giving someone a book or handing someone a letter. Why is it that the act of killing does not grant us experiance but the dialouge afterwords does?

Rumour

I completely agree. I hate questing so much. I'd go back to the grind any day if they ever make a good old fashioned figure it out for your damn self game.

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Rumour


I completely agree. I hate questing so much. I'd go back to the grind any day if they ever make a good old fashioned figure it out for your damn self game.

 

Agreed. Grinding offers a sense of exploration too. Let's get a group together, and then figure out where we can go so we can make the most xp, but not get killed.

It will depend on our levels, how many in our group, and what our classes are. If any of that changes, it changes where we should go, and what we should fight.

Should we go to this area or that one, are we tough enough to head into this dungeon or not, if night time comes will we get wiped when new creatures spawn, if we get one more fighter can we take on the boss mob?

I'm overburdended, let's go sell stuff. My equipment is broken, let's go repair it. I need a new sword, I think I have enough gold to buy one now. I just dinged, let's go level. Then come back and grind some more! 

I like that sort of thing.

Capn23

Is there an option for wanting quests without the grinding feeling?

 

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Capn23


Is there an option for wanting quests without the grinding feeling?
 

 

So you want to play a single player game instead of an MMOrpg?

heremypet

Counter strike is good when I just want to kill stuff.  In MMO's I do like challenging combat, but that definately isnt all I want to do.

Waterlily

Originally posted by Ihmotepp


 
So you want to play a single player game instead of an MMOrpg?

 

He probably just wants quests without the progression attached to it. Grind only exists because there's progression. If MMO were not about level's or progression there would be no grind. Progression = addiction = easy money.

FPS don't have a progression and are online too, they test your skill, not how much time you have been online or what guild, group or friends you have. They are hardly as addictive in nature as MMO are. You do not feel as compelled in FPS to keep playing.

Khrymson

Well, FFXI comes to mind if you don't want to do the quest grind, but there is still a grind at it feels.  The whole lets go explore, and need a specific setup of classes and gear/items is there though.  There are many diff places you can level besides the traditional areas that most lvl in as well.

 

...and you do just kill stuff in FFXI, since you never get XP for a quest or delivering an item.  You only get xp and skill-ups from fighting and lots of it!  You should check it out if you havn't before and the new Level Sync they added a few months ago really helps get groups going more often than ever now...

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by Ihmotepp


 
So you want to play a single player game instead of an MMOrpg?

 

He probably just wants quests without the progression attached to it. Grind only exists because there's progression. If MMO were not about level's or progression there would be no grind. Progression = addiction = easy money.

FPS don't have a progression and are online too, they test your skill, not how much time you have been online or what guild, group or friends you have. They are hardly as addictive in nature as MMO are. You do not feel as compelled in FPS to keep playing.

 

You know what FPS replaces character advancement  with? Doing a quest or level over and over again. You the player actually advance in knowledge of what's going to happen, or how to do things.

Take a game like Far Cry 2. You do a level, and you walk down the hall, and two guards jump out and kill you. Next time you throw a grenade in first to kill them.  Or you try the grenades, but they dont' work, so you try the machine gun, doesn't work, so you try the shotgun, adn that works the best.

eagles12555

I want a game that lets me kill stuff, so i raised my hand . I like killing stuff (mainly pvp) that gives me a reward for doing so. i would be okay with a game that has 100% pvp, no pve even, and it would be great to me. I love a game that requires skill. WoW did not. it was basically get a warrior with an insane amount of defense, a healer with lots of +heals and 3 dpser's to just hit. the warriors were meat shields. I would like a PvP game that lets you pvp from the start, you can kill whoever whenever, whereever. in cities, their houses, whatever, doesnt matter. and i would also like a game with cooooool looking armor that you are rewarded for for killing people , like arena sets in WoW (although i think they should put people with full season 4 in different zones than people who just start out). 

 

 and PS. this is irrelevant but i just looked out my window and its like a blizzard

nomadian

---

Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by Capn23 Is there an option for wanting quests without the grinding feeling?
 

 
So you want to play a single player game instead of an MMOrpg?

---

Why do you draw that conclusion? surely a quest can feel rewarding and enjoyable in a mmorpg without that feeling of grinding?

doobster

Originally posted by Roosevelt


Also the reason I post this is because of my recent run in with Spellborn. Another game where I am forced onto a rail and simply train through all of the content. Why is it that since the days after UO/EQ we are now forced into the mindless grind unable to wrench ourselves from it? Why is it now that games reward us with experiance for completeling menial taks likes giving someone a book or handing someone a letter. Why is it that the act of killing does not grant us experiance but the dialouge afterwords does?

 

You can just kill stuff in most any MMO, and go from min-max level.  If you just want to kill stuff why not spend the year it would take in WoW to go from 1-80 only killing stuff.  If you just want to kill stuff why are you doing the fastest way to level, even though you don't like it as much as a slower way.  What are you racing to?  If you just want to kill stuff why are you even worried about the XP in the first place?

I think you aren't fully seeing the bigger picture.  Taking away the quest doesn't take away the train on a rail through the content.  Taking away the mindless Deliver X to Y doesn't make a game any less linear.

PatchDay

I think only the EVE devs had the right idea. Quests are optional and they are there for those that want them. For the sandbox PVE'ers, you can make money many different ways. I guess EVE spoiled me because they didnt force me to grind quests or grind mobs per se.

I was able to advance doing whatever activity I found profitable and fun

 

It's not a perfect game either. But what I'm saying is I prefer CHOICE. Dont take my freedom away with a bunch of badly scripted quests please.

Loke666

Originally posted by Roosevelt


Also the reason I post this is because of my recent run in with Spellborn. Another game where I am forced onto a rail and simply train through all of the content. Why is it that since the days after UO/EQ we are now forced into the mindless grind unable to wrench ourselves from it? Why is it now that games reward us with experiance for completeling menial taks likes giving someone a book or handing someone a letter. Why is it that the act of killing does not grant us experiance but the dialouge afterwords does?

 

Just killing things don't sounds like any less mindless grind....

I do wan't to kill things but that is only part of what I like to do in a MMO.

PatchDay

Originally posted by doobster

Originally posted by Roosevelt


Also the reason I post this is because of my recent run in with Spellborn. Another game where I am forced onto a rail and simply train through all of the content. Why is it that since the days after UO/EQ we are now forced into the mindless grind unable to wrench ourselves from it? Why is it now that games reward us with experiance for completeling menial taks likes giving someone a book or handing someone a letter. Why is it that the act of killing does not grant us experiance but the dialouge afterwords does?

 

You can just kill stuff in most any MMO, and go from min-max level.  If you just want to kill stuff why not spend the year it would take in WoW to go from 1-80 only killing stuff.  If you just want to kill stuff why are you doing the fastest way to level, even though you don't like it as much as a slower way.  What are you racing to?  If you just want to kill stuff why are you even worried about the XP in the first place?

I think you aren't fully seeing the bigger picture.  Taking away the quest doesn't take away the train on a rail through the content.  Taking away the mindless Deliver X to Y doesn't make a game any less linear.

Then you just haven't played Spellborn. There is no way in hell you've played it. That is so absolutely 100% incorrect.

When a game becomes nearly 100% quest based- that removes self directed activites.

Let's say you're running along in a forest and you see a guildmate doing a quest *you dont have*. So you stop and assist your friend. Because mob XP is nerfed, you are not getting much XP. But they are (because they can turn the Quests to their NPC)

 

It makes the game soooooo linear. So mind numbing linear

 

To make matters worse- if you decide to explore literally an NPC may look at you and tell ya to go back to "your zone"

I think its bad PVE game design. I dont know what those devs are thinking. Just seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot

During beta we tried to tell them that this is not fun and it appears they still going live

I may try to play anyway because I enjoyed other aspects of the game. Unfortunately, they force you to do the lame quests and that might be a total deal breaker

doobster

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by doobster

Originally posted by Roosevelt


Also the reason I post this is because of my recent run in with Spellborn. Another game where I am forced onto a rail and simply train through all of the content. Why is it that since the days after UO/EQ we are now forced into the mindless grind unable to wrench ourselves from it? Why is it now that games reward us with experiance for completeling menial taks likes giving someone a book or handing someone a letter. Why is it that the act of killing does not grant us experiance but the dialouge afterwords does?

 

You can just kill stuff in most any MMO, and go from min-max level.  If you just want to kill stuff why not spend the year it would take in WoW to go from 1-80 only killing stuff.  If you just want to kill stuff why are you doing the fastest way to level, even though you don't like it as much as a slower way.  What are you racing to?  If you just want to kill stuff why are you even worried about the XP in the first place?

I think you aren't fully seeing the bigger picture.  Taking away the quest doesn't take away the train on a rail through the content.  Taking away the mindless Deliver X to Y doesn't make a game any less linear.

Then you just haven't played Spellborn. There is no way in hell you've played it. That is so absolutely 100% incorrect.

When a game becomes nearly 100% quest based- that removes self directed activites.

Let's say you're running along in a forest and you see a guildmate doing a quest *you dont have*. So you stop and assist your friend. Because mob XP is nerfed, you are not getting much XP. But they are (because they can turn the Quests to their NPC)

 

It makes the game soooooo linear. So mind numbing linear

 

To make matters worse- if you decide to explore literally an NPC may look at you and tell ya to go back to "your zone"

I think its bad PVE game design. I dont know what those devs are thinking. Just seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot

During beta we tried to tell them that this is not fun and it appears they still going live

I may try to play anyway because I enjoyed other aspects of the game. Unfortunately, they force you to do the lame quests and that might be a total deal breaker

 

Maybe on a very small level the actual act of delivering something is slightly more linear then the act of killing a monster, but you're still not looking at the big picture.  Either way, you're still doing exactly what the devs have programmed for people to do from start to finish.  The game would be just as linear if you went from 1-70 from delivering stuff, then if you went from 1-70 grinding MOBs.  The killing of MOBs might be more fun, but its still just as linear on a big-picture basis.

redcap036

The guy in the mail room at work keeps asking that question.

PatchDay

Originally posted by doobster

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by doobster

Originally posted by Roosevelt


Also the reason I post this is because of my recent run in with Spellborn. Another game where I am forced onto a rail and simply train through all of the content. Why is it that since the days after UO/EQ we are now forced into the mindless grind unable to wrench ourselves from it? Why is it now that games reward us with experiance for completeling menial taks likes giving someone a book or handing someone a letter. Why is it that the act of killing does not grant us experiance but the dialouge afterwords does?

 

You can just kill stuff in most any MMO, and go from min-max level.  If you just want to kill stuff why not spend the year it would take in WoW to go from 1-80 only killing stuff.  If you just want to kill stuff why are you doing the fastest way to level, even though you don't like it as much as a slower way.  What are you racing to?  If you just want to kill stuff why are you even worried about the XP in the first place?

I think you aren't fully seeing the bigger picture.  Taking away the quest doesn't take away the train on a rail through the content.  Taking away the mindless Deliver X to Y doesn't make a game any less linear.

Then you just haven't played Spellborn. There is no way in hell you've played it. That is so absolutely 100% incorrect.

When a game becomes nearly 100% quest based- that removes self directed activites.

Let's say you're running along in a forest and you see a guildmate doing a quest *you dont have*. So you stop and assist your friend. Because mob XP is nerfed, you are not getting much XP. But they are (because they can turn the Quests to their NPC)

 

It makes the game soooooo linear. So mind numbing linear

 

To make matters worse- if you decide to explore literally an NPC may look at you and tell ya to go back to "your zone"

I think its bad PVE game design. I dont know what those devs are thinking. Just seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot

During beta we tried to tell them that this is not fun and it appears they still going live

I may try to play anyway because I enjoyed other aspects of the game. Unfortunately, they force you to do the lame quests and that might be a total deal breaker

 

Maybe on a very small level the actual act of delivering something is slightly more linear then the act of killing a monster, but you're still not looking at the big picture.  Either way, you're still doing exactly what the devs have programmed for people to do from start to finish.  The game would be just as linear if you went from 1-70 from delivering stuff, then if you went from 1-70 grinding MOBs.  The killing of MOBs might be more fun, but its still just as linear on a big-picture basis.

 

No that is incorrect.

Let's say I want to go out an explore. Because mob XP is so miniscule, it would take me forever+++ to level that way.

If I want to get some quests in this new area I can't. Why? Because I never received the initial quests to send me there.

So now I have to return to the former quest area. Complete those boring quest chains before I finally get sent to the area I'd like to be

 

Worst- because group limit is only like 4 or something when our Guild held events many of us had to stand around and watch the others kill the mobs

 

You guys just havent played this game yet. You'll see. The quests were really awful. However I enjoyed other aspects of the game and liked the folks that played. And the combat system is really tight so I'll be buying it for that

edit- Disclaimer, I spent a lot of my time adventuring and such in aldenvault/hoggsridge. Never made it to high level. So hopefully it gets much better down the line. But I think they still need to work on the starter areas. Had much more fun in Aldenvault though so I suspect it gradually gets better

Ravanos

I want a group dungeon crawl, with tons of mobs to kill, with boss mobs in certain rooms that can be killed by the first group to them. I want an elite epic mob that only appears once a week to wander the hall just to give that extra sense of danger while you are fighting your way down. I want people shouting for groups at the beginning of the dungeon killing the beginner easy mobs while waiting for groups to form up to go deeper. I want TRAINS .. oh yes friggen trains that you have to dodge or you might end up being dead real fast even if the mobs werent attacking you initially.

I want bigger badder looking mobs as you work your way down .. not just "oh its a frost giant because his skin color is blue, hes much tougher than the regular giants in the beginning"

and then once you get to the end of the HUGE dungeon there is actually a huge boss of the dungeon thats insanely tough and not just a loot pinata.

thats what i want, but i wont get it because the god damn lazy soloers will b!tch and moan because they can't make it down and kill the boss by themselves. that its just not fair to them, they also pay for the game they should be able to solo the dungeon!

 

Capn23

I really don't understand this "All quests in MMORPGs must be grinds so why don't you just go play a FPS"

 

Why the hell can't there be fun ways to kill stuff? I could sit here and think of really fun quests that would require help from group members. Trust me...I'm not an instant gratification sort of person. I just feel that there are many many ways in which to make quests more than just kill X amount of Y and fedex quests.

 

But I guess that would make me anti-MMORPG and I should just go play a FPS...even though I hate FPS games.

 

Thank you for being the type of person that supports doing more of the same in every MMORPG. You can pat yourself on the back knowing that you are helping in the downfall of future MMORPGs.

 

/rant off

Roosevelt

Originally posted by Ravanos


I want a group dungeon crawl, with tons of mobs to kill, with boss mobs in certain rooms that can be killed by the first group to them. I want an elite epic mob that only appears once a week to wander the hall just to give that extra sense of danger while you are fighting your way down. I want people shouting for groups at the beginning of the dungeon killing the beginner easy mobs while waiting for groups to form up to go deeper. I want TRAINS .. oh yes friggen trains that you have to dodge or you might end up being dead real fast even if the mobs werent attacking you initially.
I want bigger badder looking mobs as you work your way down .. not just "oh its a frost giant because his skin color is blue, hes much tougher than the regular giants in the beginning"
and then once you get to the end of the HUGE dungeon there is actually a huge boss of the dungeon thats insanely tough and not just a loot pinata.
thats what i want, but i wont get it because the god damn lazy soloers will b!tch and moan because they can't make it down and kill the boss by themselves. that its just not fair to them, they also pay for the game they should be able to solo the dungeon!
 

 

I am glad there are still a few bastards out there who like it the old scohol way. Getting your hands dirty in a dungeon is to be expected. Or at least it damn well should be I am really sick of the soloers getting all the fun and the care-bear quest exp lovers getting everything they want. To me if you grab a niche and take as many of them as you can you are part of a successful MMO. There is a market out there for us old school MMO players and its just up to some company to grab it. I think what Vanguard did wrong was they took on too ambitious of a project. They created a huge world for a niche player base that even in its peak could barely fill it. Had they have started out with maybe just one or two continents they might have made a game that still deserved the name "The Real Everquest 2" and maybe Brad Mcquaid would still have his balls that he left for Smedly the Barbarian to chew on.

Aeroangel

Perhaps Maple Story or the like is right up your alley?

Korby

Originally posted by Aeroangel


Perhaps Maple Story or the like is right up your alley?

 

I'd pay for an 18+ Maplestory any day.

Miffy

If it is Counter Strike the mmorpg then... yeah!

zoey121

I think any game that is quest heavy mainly get experaince from being a delivery person or gathering supplies does get old. I would still like to see a good mix of both....