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Wintergrasp and tenacity
mrnutz1065
Member Posts: 228
What are peoples feelings on Wintergrasp and the tenacity buff?
I personally think it's pretty fail that because of afkers/ essence farmers one team can have "raid bosses" rolling around destroying people. 12 stacks of tenacity = lol. Typical blizzard to make it carebear by not allowing underdogs in an "oRvR" zone. Blizzard may as well have made wintergrasp instanced and turned it into another AV.
Good fun but pretty dissapointed at this "Mass oRvR" people were proclaiming.
Discuss
Comments
Odds are that there will be a same proportion of 'essence farmers' on both sides.
The problem most people are having with the tenacity buff is that they aren't utilizing your advantage. If you outnumber the oponent and you are running around trying to solo, then you are wrong.
Lake Wintergrasp is ALL about large scale world pvp. If you want to participate in this form of pvp, you have to be part of the 'team'.
It's just like in AV where people are too dumb to learn how the game works and do stupid things, then complain about the map being imbalanced. Typical crybabies.. if I don't win, then it must be a problem with the game.
l2facts: www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php
This is a link to warcraftrealm's realm stats page, sorted by A:H ratio. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's the best data we (players) have.
Look at the big picture, man. Look at the top twenty on that list. Look at the bottom twenty on that list. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Keep whining though.
l2facts: www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php
This is a link to warcraftrealm's realm stats page, sorted by A:H ratio. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's the best data we (players) have.
Look at the big picture, man. Look at the top twenty on that list. Look at the bottom twenty on that list. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Keep whining though.
Anyone who still refers to that website is a kind of XXX (fill in).
No one is using this add-on these days. The reason is simple. Much to much servers to track everything.
There are servers where hardly 1 person is still logging in using his Census program.
At the moment Xfire shows a record high number of players. Our EU servers at prime time show 55 servers on locked/full/high status. A record as long as Wow is in exsitence in EU (not counting the 13 locked/high Russians, and the dozens of French, German and Spanish ones.)
And on warcraftrealms.com there is no significant increase, simply.... because no one is using the man's program.
It used to be a rather good tool when the servers were limited and the program new, but these days with about 600 servers EU/US, the stats are mostly useless unless you have 4 or 5 people using the man's program and still log in.
He doesn't even track most recently added servers.
Too early to judge Wintergrasp, the vaste majority of players are busy leveling and wont bother to hit Wintergrasp till max cap.
In beta I was playing wintergrasp with 100 players and had a riot of a time.
l2facts: www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php
This is a link to warcraftrealm's realm stats page, sorted by A:H ratio. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's the best data we (players) have.
Look at the big picture, man. Look at the top twenty on that list. Look at the bottom twenty on that list. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Keep whining though.
Lol, because I stated my opinion I'm a whiner. Would it ever occur to you just for once that blizzard may have made a mistake? Tenacity as it stands is ridiculous. Ever tried beating a feral druid with 100k health that hits for 10,000? In a 1v1 encounter you are going to get facerolled by the person with the tenacity buff. 1v1 should it not be the person with the better skills that wins?
Well, I can't speak for everyone but the server I am on is full both sides and has a somewhat equal ratio of alliance:horde.
In my opinion the whole tenacity buff somewhat trivialises oRvR. The team with the bigger side Should win. If they are losing? Well, call in reinforcements.
l2facts: www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php
This is a link to warcraftrealm's realm stats page, sorted by A:H ratio. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's the best data we (players) have.
Look at the big picture, man. Look at the top twenty on that list. Look at the bottom twenty on that list. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Keep whining though.
Lol, because I stated my opinion I'm a whiner. Would it ever occur to you just for once that blizzard may have made a mistake? Tenacity as it stands is ridiculous. Ever tried beating a feral druid with 100k health that hits for 10,000? In a 1v1 encounter you are going to get facerolled by the person with the tenacity buff. 1v1 should it not be the person with the better skills that wins?
Well, I can't speak for everyone but the server I am on is full both sides and has a somewhat equal ratio of alliance:horde.
In my opinion the whole tenacity buff somewhat trivialises oRvR. The team with the bigger side Should win. If they are losing? Well, call in reinforcements.
And you won the darwin award and proved my first post accuraate. In order for that feral druid to have 100,000 health, that means your team probably outnumbers his team by 2:1 or 3:1 So yes, you deserver to lose if you try to fight him 1v1. Your faction has twice or three times as many players as his does. Wintergrasp is *gasp* large scale combat.. if you want to run around and find 1v1 fights, try duels outside stormwind.
Look at the big picture, man. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Ever tried beating a feral druid with 100k health that hits for 10,000? In a 1v1 encounter you are going to get facerolled by the person with the tenacity buff. 1v1 should it not be the person with the better skills that wins?
In order for that feral druid to have 100,000 health, that means your team probably outnumbers his team by 2:1 or 3:1 So yes, you deserver to lose if you try to fight him 1v1. Your faction has twice or three times as many players as his does. Wintergrasp is *gasp* large scale combat.. if you want to run around and find 1v1 fights, try duels outside stormwind.
Hey wait... haven't we heard this all before?
But WOW has smooth combat ( ie, I can actually interrupt a 1 sec spell with my insta-cast spell). Warhammers combat is clunky and unresponsive. You don't really 'react' to what the other player is doing, you just run in and push your buttons and they fire 'whenever'. I pvp with a frost mage in WOW. There is no way I could Counterspell, Nova-blink away from a rogue etc if I was playing Warhammer. There is no way I could time my frostbolt and Ice lance to land at the same time on a frozen target like I can in WOW.
The other big thing about Wintergrasp in particular (over RvR in War) is that Wintergrasp has it's own unique 'advancment' and reward system. Warhammer RvR is failing badly because it's scenarios have the same advancement (renown) as RvR and are much 'easier' to advance in. Therefore nobody is doing open world RvR.
Lake Wintergrasp is also just more 'player controlled'. Seige weapons are moveable. Terrain, walls and bridges are destructable and there are things like mult-player mounts and flying combat that aren't in warhammer. In warhammer, the game really dictates 'where' you attack a keep and where the seige weapons are. In Lake Wintergrasp, you actually determine where YOU think the weak spot is.
Lake Wintergrasp is a small part of WOW, but it is better than the oRvR from Warhammer, which was supposed to be the major selling point of the game.
I know that, and I agree with everything you said, just pointing out how ironic it is that everyone thought they wanted WoW-quality ORvR and now that they have it, they are whining just the same as they were before.
l2facts: www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php
This is a link to warcraftrealm's realm stats page, sorted by A:H ratio. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's the best data we (players) have.
Look at the big picture, man. Look at the top twenty on that list. Look at the bottom twenty on that list. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Keep whining though.
Lol, because I stated my opinion I'm a whiner. Would it ever occur to you just for once that blizzard may have made a mistake? Tenacity as it stands is ridiculous. Ever tried beating a feral druid with 100k health that hits for 10,000? In a 1v1 encounter you are going to get facerolled by the person with the tenacity buff. 1v1 should it not be the person with the better skills that wins?
Well, I can't speak for everyone but the server I am on is full both sides and has a somewhat equal ratio of alliance:horde.
In my opinion the whole tenacity buff somewhat trivialises oRvR. The team with the bigger side Should win. If they are losing? Well, call in reinforcements.
And you won the darwin award and proved my first post accuraate. In order for that feral druid to have 100,000 health, that means your team probably outnumbers his team by 2:1 or 3:1 So yes, you deserver to lose if you try to fight him 1v1. Your faction has twice or three times as many players as his does. Wintergrasp is *gasp* large scale combat.. if you want to run around and find 1v1 fights, try duels outside stormwind.
Ermm, you are missing my point here. Anyways, since when was 1 rambo druid versus 12 people "large scale pvp". The whole system as it stands hardly encourages everyone to join the fight for their faction.
"/5 global defence: Hey we need people to come join wintergrasp the alliance are outnumbered and going to lose!"
"/5global defence: Lol, no it's fine we have 2 druids steamrolling in there"
"/5global defence: Lol ok, back to the dailys guys
"
Although I can appreciate what Blizzard are trying to do to keep it balanced I just believe it kinda defeats the object of open rvr.
No need for the hostility Azrille, I'm not trying to badmouth your precious WoW. I'm enjoying WoW very much at the moment, just a bit perplexed over this wintergrasp fiasco.
Also, lol at taking another stab at warhammer, you just can't resist
Anyone who is 1v1ing in wintergrasp is a moron.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
l2facts: www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php
This is a link to warcraftrealm's realm stats page, sorted by A:H ratio. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's the best data we (players) have.
Look at the big picture, man. Look at the top twenty on that list. Look at the bottom twenty on that list. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Keep whining though.
Lol, because I stated my opinion I'm a whiner. Would it ever occur to you just for once that blizzard may have made a mistake? Tenacity as it stands is ridiculous. Ever tried beating a feral druid with 100k health that hits for 10,000? In a 1v1 encounter you are going to get facerolled by the person with the tenacity buff. 1v1 should it not be the person with the better skills that wins?
Well, I can't speak for everyone but the server I am on is full both sides and has a somewhat equal ratio of alliance:horde.
In my opinion the whole tenacity buff somewhat trivialises oRvR. The team with the bigger side Should win. If they are losing? Well, call in reinforcements.
NO. The person who has the best gear wins, NOT the person with the most skill.
l2facts: www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php
This is a link to warcraftrealm's realm stats page, sorted by A:H ratio. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's the best data we (players) have.
Look at the big picture, man. Look at the top twenty on that list. Look at the bottom twenty on that list. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Keep whining though.
Lol, because I stated my opinion I'm a whiner. Would it ever occur to you just for once that blizzard may have made a mistake? Tenacity as it stands is ridiculous. Ever tried beating a feral druid with 100k health that hits for 10,000? In a 1v1 encounter you are going to get facerolled by the person with the tenacity buff. 1v1 should it not be the person with the better skills that wins?
Well, I can't speak for everyone but the server I am on is full both sides and has a somewhat equal ratio of alliance:horde.
In my opinion the whole tenacity buff somewhat trivialises oRvR. The team with the bigger side Should win. If they are losing? Well, call in reinforcements.
And you won the darwin award and proved my first post accuraate. In order for that feral druid to have 100,000 health, that means your team probably outnumbers his team by 2:1 or 3:1 So yes, you deserver to lose if you try to fight him 1v1. Your faction has twice or three times as many players as his does. Wintergrasp is *gasp* large scale combat.. if you want to run around and find 1v1 fights, try duels outside stormwind.
Ermm, you are missing my point here. Anyways, since when was 1 rambo druid versus 12 people "large scale pvp". The whole system as it stands hardly encourages everyone to join the fight for their faction.
"/5 global defence: Hey we need people to come join wintergrasp the alliance are outnumbered and going to lose!"
"/5global defence: Lol, no it's fine we have 2 druids steamrolling in there"
"/5global defence: Lol ok, back to the dailys guys
"
Although I can appreciate what Blizzard are trying to do to keep it balanced I just believe it kinda defeats the object of open rvr.
No need for the hostility Azrille, I'm not trying to badmouth your precious WoW. I'm enjoying WoW very much at the moment, just a bit perplexed over this wintergrasp fiasco.
Also, lol at taking another stab at warhammer, you just can't resist
You are the one talking about ' shouldn't 1v1 be about who has the most skill'. That should not even be a topic at all when talking about LW. I don't know what server you play on, but I play on a fairly low population server (Fenris), and it's never been 16v2 or 10v1 or anything like that. It's more like 45vs35 or at worst 50v30. The fact is there is NEVER a 'rambo druid' runnin around soloing vs 10 players. You are describing an extreme position that isn't happening, and is less likely to happen in the future as more players reach lvl cap. And that still isn't the argument you made... you talked about YOU bumping into that solo druid while you are soloing (which you shouldn't be doing in a large scale pvp game).
There simply has to be a tenacity buff or you will see 75% of all servers with no action in LW. The underpopulated side will stop trying and the overpopulated side will just roll through every 3 hours and capture it. I'm sure Blizzard noted the corrolation between server population and Halaa control when working on the tenacity buff.
Same useless whine from people who can't cut it. I watched a warrior (prot specced) dual another warrior (similar prot spec). One was my guild, and was tanking. We were standing around waiting, and bored.
First win: "I lagged!"
Second win: "Your gear is better!"
Guild tank takes off half his gear (I think he had his trinkets, his chest piece, his weapon, and maybe a few other pieces equipped). Steamrolls him.
"Your gear is still better!"
The eternal whine of those who can't cut it.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
l2facts: www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php
This is a link to warcraftrealm's realm stats page, sorted by A:H ratio. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's the best data we (players) have.
Look at the big picture, man. Look at the top twenty on that list. Look at the bottom twenty on that list. Massive, crushing disparities for A:H.
Without tenacity, there would be no Wintergrasp on those servers. It would one faction constantly owning the other.
Keep whining though.
Lol, because I stated my opinion I'm a whiner. Would it ever occur to you just for once that blizzard may have made a mistake? Tenacity as it stands is ridiculous. Ever tried beating a feral druid with 100k health that hits for 10,000? In a 1v1 encounter you are going to get facerolled by the person with the tenacity buff. 1v1 should it not be the person with the better skills that wins?
Well, I can't speak for everyone but the server I am on is full both sides and has a somewhat equal ratio of alliance:horde.
In my opinion the whole tenacity buff somewhat trivialises oRvR. The team with the bigger side Should win. If they are losing? Well, call in reinforcements.
And you won the darwin award and proved my first post accuraate. In order for that feral druid to have 100,000 health, that means your team probably outnumbers his team by 2:1 or 3:1 So yes, you deserver to lose if you try to fight him 1v1. Your faction has twice or three times as many players as his does. Wintergrasp is *gasp* large scale combat.. if you want to run around and find 1v1 fights, try duels outside stormwind.
Ermm, you are missing my point here. Anyways, since when was 1 rambo druid versus 12 people "large scale pvp". The whole system as it stands hardly encourages everyone to join the fight for their faction.
"/5 global defence: Hey we need people to come join wintergrasp the alliance are outnumbered and going to lose!"
"/5global defence: Lol, no it's fine we have 2 druids steamrolling in there"
"/5global defence: Lol ok, back to the dailys guys
"
Although I can appreciate what Blizzard are trying to do to keep it balanced I just believe it kinda defeats the object of open rvr.
No need for the hostility Azrille, I'm not trying to badmouth your precious WoW. I'm enjoying WoW very much at the moment, just a bit perplexed over this wintergrasp fiasco.
Also, lol at taking another stab at warhammer, you just can't resist
You are the one talking about ' shouldn't 1v1 be about who has the most skill'. That should not even be a topic at all when talking about LW. I don't know what server you play on, but I play on a fairly low population server (Fenris), and it's never been 16v2 or 10v1 or anything like that. It's more like 45vs35 or at worst 50v30. The fact is there is NEVER a 'rambo druid' runnin around soloing vs 10 players. You are describing an extreme position that isn't happening, and is less likely to happen in the future as more players reach lvl cap. And that still isn't the argument you made... you talked about YOU bumping into that solo druid while you are soloing (which you shouldn't be doing in a large scale pvp game).
There simply has to be a tenacity buff or you will see 75% of all servers with no action in LW. The underpopulated side will stop trying and the overpopulated side will just roll through every 3 hours and capture it. I'm sure Blizzard noted the corrolation between server population and Halaa control when working on the tenacity buff.
No, i had two gripes. I've even underlined it just in case you didn't pick it up the first time. Tenacity buff not only eliminates the need for skill (Ret pally faceroll divine storm 10 ppl dead lawl) but also does little to encourage open RvR.
If I could be bothered I'd spiel some analogy about "300" but it's late I'll save that for another day
You totally could have a point, there's no chance that Divine storm has a limit of 4 targets.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
Not true I'm afraid. My realm does out number the horde when it comes to total population, but from seeing how WG goes on my server since LK went live, although both sides have controlled, the Horde will ALWAYS get the buff. This includes times when they have outnumbered us 3 or 4 to 1. Some people are not whining about it, they are just pointing out that the system is screwed up. I'm sorry, but yes I am going to as you put it "whine" if I get my butt handed to me by a tenacity buffed horde raid that also outnumbers us. The current record of the longest time alliance on my realm has ever held tenacity currently stands at about 45 seconds. I like the idea of balance, but at the same time let's be realistic. It's not working.
Just a little FYI. The reason the arguments here don't seem relevant to you is because they are a year and a half old. There have been a lot of changes I'm sure in that time so the argument is pretty meaningless at this point I would say (maybe not, I don't play WoW currently).
Next time you search for a subject (only way I can imagine you fould this) make sure to check the date on the last post (nov of 08 on this one). At least you did use search =D
Tenacity is bad mkay?
Not becuase it turns someone into a raid boss, but because the higher your ten stack is the higher the chance is of you loosing WG!
Having a stack of 12 may be great fun, but I really doubt anyone has EVER won WG with that amount.
Correct me if I am wrong?
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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