and you know this how? have you heard about the game's features? tell me about the classes? quests? storyline? crafting?
OH WAIT...HAHAH...you CAN'T!
And neither can you, so what's to say we're wrong and you're not?
Nothing. But at least we don't attempt to pass off our thoughts as fact. Like someone in this thread saying that his opinion is 150% guaranteed to be true.
Oh cmon, it's called exaggeration, it's a literary device to show a strong opinion on something.
And damn near every post on this board has people saying "This game will be the best game ever."!
How is that any different?
Nothing. If a man jumps off a bridge, do you jump, too?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people. Just because there's extremist flamers and fanbois around, why do you have to sink to their level.
And posting a supposed outcome of a game that makes it look bad, and then citing that as truth, regardless of if you want to exaggerate or not, is aggrevating at best. Just as agrrevating as people who say this game will be the second coming.
Ok, spend time arguing with the SWTOR fanbois now, because they're just as bad right? Or do you only pull that argument out on someone negative about the game so you can appear to be the unbiased mediator?
meh, I'm just gonna wait till open beta to pass any judgment. If it sucks then I won't play, plain and simple. At this point though I do like how they aren't really getting people's hopes up and over hyping shit with information on features that may not make it .
What's worse? A lot of promises they will never follow thru on? Or little information? Many MMOs fail because of broken promises.
Ok, spend time arguing with the SWTOR fanbois now, because they're just as bad right? Or do you only pull that argument out on someone negative about the game so you can appear to be the unbiased mediator?
Please link me to a fanboi that states this game will be huge and super-great and have everything anyone has ever dreamed off. I will use the same arguments against him, I swear.
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly! they're the type that would here the ideas of communism and go "Yeah! that sounds right!" they dont stop to think that it doesnt work! lol and anyway sandbox mmo doesnt even sound right ask yourself this question, if you think sandbox mmo might be good, why would you have levels (which are necessary to be considered an MMO) in the first place if all you want to do is play a game where everything is flat and everyone is equal (except for skill)? You might as well play an FPS game.. because an FPS game already provides that skill-based system (without the annoyance of some stupid levels) no, in MMOs you have the significant difference from FPS games.. skill is not enough. You have to be willing to invest the time into what you're going to do cheer for the time-invest!
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
"And damn near every post on this board has people saying "This game will be the best game ever."!
How is that any different?"
Or you can reverse that and say nearly every other post is a disgrunted gamer going out of his way to ditch a game not even fully designed yet! Imagine that, fanboys on a Star Wars forums board, oh my! Quess you thought you would find Vanguard fans here instead?
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly! they're the type that would here the ideas of communism and go "Yeah! that sounds right!" they dont stop to think that it doesnt work! lol and anyway sandbox mmo doesnt even sound right ask yourself this question, if you think sandbox mmo might be good, why would you have levels (which are necessary to be considered an MMO) in the first place if all you want to do is play a game where everything is flat and everyone is equal (except for skill)? You might as well play an FPS game.. because an FPS game already provides that skill-based system (without the annoyance of some stupid levels) no, in MMOs you have the significant difference from FPS games.. skill is not enough. You have to be willing to invest the time into what you're going to do cheer for the time-invest!
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Preachy.... umm.... OK? I thought I was pretty straight forward. Talk about what? Sounds more like you telling me what I should like. So what's to talk about, you seem to have it all figured out. Just don't tell me what I want or what I need. I'll be my own judge thank you very much.
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly! they're the type that would here the ideas of communism and go "Yeah! that sounds right!" they dont stop to think that it doesnt work! lol and anyway sandbox mmo doesnt even sound right ask yourself this question, if you think sandbox mmo might be good, why would you have levels (which are necessary to be considered an MMO) in the first place if all you want to do is play a game where everything is flat and everyone is equal (except for skill)? You might as well play an FPS game.. because an FPS game already provides that skill-based system (without the annoyance of some stupid levels) no, in MMOs you have the significant difference from FPS games.. skill is not enough. You have to be willing to invest the time into what you're going to do cheer for the time-invest!
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Preachy.... umm.... OK? I thought I was pretty straight forward. Talk about what? Sounds more like you telling me what I should like. So what's to talk about, you seem to have it all figured out. Just don't tell me what I want or what I need. I'll be my own judge thank you very much.
I talked about facts and opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
You can want sandbox MMO, sure. But just as a sandbox MMO player want to encourage other people to like sandbox MMO, I want to discourage them from liking sandbox MMO and encouraging them instead to like FPS when they want to play a game based on skill, and a themepark MMO when they feel like playing a game based on time-investing.
Sandbox MMO may be your thing, but its not for me. And I have no problem discouraging other people from playing it, as I see the more people playing themepark MMO (specifically Star Wars TOR), the better.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly! they're the type that would here the ideas of communism and go "Yeah! that sounds right!" they dont stop to think that it doesnt work! lol and anyway sandbox mmo doesnt even sound right ask yourself this question, if you think sandbox mmo might be good, why would you have levels (which are necessary to be considered an MMO) in the first place if all you want to do is play a game where everything is flat and everyone is equal (except for skill)? You might as well play an FPS game.. because an FPS game already provides that skill-based system (without the annoyance of some stupid levels) no, in MMOs you have the significant difference from FPS games.. skill is not enough. You have to be willing to invest the time into what you're going to do cheer for the time-invest!
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Preachy.... umm.... OK? I thought I was pretty straight forward. Talk about what? Sounds more like you telling me what I should like. So what's to talk about, you seem to have it all figured out. Just don't tell me what I want or what I need. I'll be my own judge thank you very much.
I talked about facts and opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
You can want sandbox MMO, sure. But just as a sandbox MMO player want to encourage other people to like sandbox MMO, I want to discourage them from liking sandbox MMO and encouraging them instead to like FPS when they want to play a game based on skill, and a themepark MMO when they feel like playing a game based on time-investing.
Sandbox MMO may be your thing, but its not for me. And I have no problem discouraging other people from playing it, as I see the more people playing themepark MMO (specifically Star Wars TOR), the better.
bad news for you then. im pretty confident this game will have sandbox elements, they will likely be mixed in with some theme park elements also. but at last, this game could very well have sandbox elements in both character development and pvp. if you'd like to argue that on facts, go right ahead. theres nothing stating theme park at all.
but here's a few things for you. first off, sandbox does work, L2 got how many subscriptions? 1 million? thats called working.
now onto the game. character development with little restriction is normally considered sandbox. character development where you pick a class and nothing changes except abilities designed only for that class is normally called theme park.
looking at Biowares single player RPG's, i would say most of the character development in those games, even knowing has levels, there is still very little restriction in how your character chose's abilities. KOTOR series is a prime example. go up any skill and ability tree you like at any time. KOTOR 2 was even more flexible and diverse, picking a basic jedi class and regardless of class mixed picking any ability etc at any time. but more so picking any prestige class you ant with no restriction diversing your character even more with more flexible character development then the original. Mass effect also have very little character development structure.
theme park pvp. you go into in instance to pvp, pitted against an even number of enemies. sandbox pvp is a little more geard about guilds with less instancing.
theres nothing mass effect has done in the pass to indicate it will lean 1 direction or the other. But i don't see personally Bioware instancing PvP as a priority. i can say why, but its just a matter of opinion.
but here's the biggest thing. that thrown in with the coupled fact that Bioware sought out sandbox mmo developers tells me that we can expect to see sandbox elements in the game. i don't think this game will be sandbox focused in all elements by any means. but to say the game will be theme park is utter garbage and untrue.
i personally think its a safe bet to expect the game to have both elements in different aspects of the game.
Please dont be another level based clone grind fest!
You know it will be. They wont touch sandbox like features with a 10 foot pole.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Please dont be another level based clone grind fest!
You know it will be. They wont touch sandbox like features with a 10 foot pole.
how do you know that? o thats right you don't. your just guessing. gotcha. well, here is a little education for ya, about 6 months after the studio in Austin was built, Bioware hired several developers who were well known in coding sandbox mmo's to work in there studio in Austin.
There Developers have obviously touched em before.
i really don't care 1 way or the other as long as the character development cycle is diverse.
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly!
Never skilled up a mage/creature handler in UO have you? . Sandbox MMOs have time sinks, the game just doesn't require you to play the game as a second job ( or only job to most of the current raiders).
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly!
Never skilled up a mage/creature handler in UO have you? . Sandbox MMOs have time sinks, the game just doesn't require you to play the game as a second job ( or only job to most of the current raiders).
Every RPG has time sinks. Every game in which you somehow advance your character has timesinks. *shrugs* Skillbased, Levelbased, no difference really in that aspect. Grind out levels or grind out skill-levels. It#s really basically the same, isn't it? That is not to say that I don't see the difference between skill and level based, but the basic mechanic behind raising your character is the same.
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly! they're the type that would here the ideas of communism and go "Yeah! that sounds right!" they dont stop to think that it doesnt work! lol and anyway sandbox mmo doesnt even sound right ask yourself this question, if you think sandbox mmo might be good, why would you have levels (which are necessary to be considered an MMO) in the first place if all you want to do is play a game where everything is flat and everyone is equal (except for skill)? You might as well play an FPS game.. because an FPS game already provides that skill-based system (without the annoyance of some stupid levels) no, in MMOs you have the significant difference from FPS games.. skill is not enough. You have to be willing to invest the time into what you're going to do cheer for the time-invest!
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Preachy.... umm.... OK? I thought I was pretty straight forward. Talk about what? Sounds more like you telling me what I should like. So what's to talk about, you seem to have it all figured out. Just don't tell me what I want or what I need. I'll be my own judge thank you very much.
I talked about facts and opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
You can want sandbox MMO, sure. But just as a sandbox MMO player want to encourage other people to like sandbox MMO, I want to discourage them from liking sandbox MMO and encouraging them instead to like FPS when they want to play a game based on skill, and a themepark MMO when they feel like playing a game based on time-investing.
Sandbox MMO may be your thing, but its not for me. And I have no problem discouraging other people from playing it, as I see the more people playing themepark MMO (specifically Star Wars TOR), the better.
First of all I never said I was in favor of anything. (sandbox, FPS, whatnot)
Second of all facts and opinions. Like you first sentence that tells me disreguard the OP and listen to you. WE NEED / WANT these... HUH?? We who exactly? Cuz I know you didn't just speak for everyone else did you. How about, I NEED / WANT these.... then that becomes YOUR opinion. Then my friend you go on to insult everyone that doesn't agree with you, compare them to a communist and laugh at them. That is neither opinion nor fact. That is just telling me and everyone else that the OP's thread is worthless and YOU are going to enlighten us and tell us what's correct. Please remove yourself from the soap box.
NOW I am preaching. But I think it was tactful on my part. But thats my opinion.
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly! they're the type that would here the ideas of communism and go "Yeah! that sounds right!" they dont stop to think that it doesnt work! lol and anyway sandbox mmo doesnt even sound right ask yourself this question, if you think sandbox mmo might be good, why would you have levels (which are necessary to be considered an MMO) in the first place if all you want to do is play a game where everything is flat and everyone is equal (except for skill)? You might as well play an FPS game.. because an FPS game already provides that skill-based system (without the annoyance of some stupid levels) no, in MMOs you have the significant difference from FPS games.. skill is not enough. You have to be willing to invest the time into what you're going to do cheer for the time-invest!
hehe you got a very limited view upon a sandbox, first of all sandbox is NOT only about skills, and what is really funny, sandbox games are definitly NOT flat and everyone equal that's in fact the current state of MMO ...looking at you WOW!! Sorry it seems you have no clue what so ever what a sandbox is supose to be seeing what you just explained.
The only thing you sort of right about is that in this day and age sandbox will not work, sure it will work for us niche old school MMORPG players, but face it the majority of people into this genre don't want to put any effort into a MMORPG, as most from what I see ingame/forums/websites seem to be people that lack patients and or are very jalouze at people who might outlvl/skill them, and yeah a sandbox game doesn't hold your hand if done sort of correctly, and that is something that the majority of people simply do not want in a game regardless what genre, I mean else this genre of MMORPGames would have evolved into more then we had instead of only looking better but with far limited options for players to enjoy.
Please dont be another level based clone grind fest!
You know it will be. They wont touch sandbox like features with a 10 foot pole.
So you will do this?
Kil l 10 bears
raid a dungeon
do more quests
do more quests
level
have one road to make your class
class unbalance
instanced batttlegrounds
WOW mate, that sound allot of fun. May i give you an awesome mmo? Well this is what you have to do. Check the F2P mmo's with cash shops, they have the same features.
If this would be the case, the game is the same as any F2P korean mmo. The same features
Sandbox mmo 's and the trolls who say mmo' don't need sandbox features don't have a clue what they are talking about.
Sandbox features are warfare, you can think of 100 vs 100 fighting each other for ground, base or a world. Building things , like your character and make your character unique, be more then a combatent, be more then a crafter. Sandbox features are mostly not instanced, heeeeeeeey, that's massive. Sandbox features mostly have non-linear game play and if designed well, you have allot of diversity when you play your game and it makes it less grindy.
Now wouldn't it be cool to have that + a good story and quests along with sandbox features like character development , pvp and world events etc.
Yeah, but that's not the old republic. Allot less sandbox features and most of the features / formula = themepark based , thus makes it not a hybrid mmo with elements of both, but a themepark mmo.
You know trolls and 12 year olds and of course the normal people of these forums. If you have things of both ala story and quests ,dungeons linear and pvp, world and progression /customization ( housing, cities building) you have a chance on becoming very successful because it attracts people of both game styles.
The guy in this thread said that sandbox features doesn't make sense. You basically made your argument epic fail against mine argument. Get back to reality kid. Sandbox features combined with linear features = epic win. 100% themepark = extreme , 100% sandbox = extreme . Combine = diversity for both styles. A guide into a world with a game = the unused formula and is considered in my opinion, the NEXT-GEN MMO!
Now kids, have a nice day! Especially to the guy who said sandbox features =epic fail , unless you like grinding quests all day but i don't think you will have fun for that , for a long time , since MMO'S should last longer then 1 month. You could do that. A good example of to linear and less diversity = WAR , another one is age of conan. Both will never reach the success, they could have. EVE is 100 % sandbox, while it is a successful mmo, implanting some linear features and a better UI, could do wonders for EVE. But of course, it is EVE, it is space and that already draws not the majority .
Attracting and creating elements of both and be the first mmo to have both linear and sandbox elements combined GOOD, then those developers can probably have a fair guess, that they aren't gonna fail. ( It depends of course on how you implant it)
----------------------------------------------------------- the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this MMOs are about time-investing grinds it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS WE NEED / WANT these inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly! they're the type that would here the ideas of communism and go "Yeah! that sounds right!" they dont stop to think that it doesnt work! lol and anyway sandbox mmo doesnt even sound right ask yourself this question, if you think sandbox mmo might be good, why would you have levels (which are necessary to be considered an MMO) in the first place if all you want to do is play a game where everything is flat and everyone is equal (except for skill)? You might as well play an FPS game.. because an FPS game already provides that skill-based system (without the annoyance of some stupid levels) no, in MMOs you have the significant difference from FPS games.. skill is not enough. You have to be willing to invest the time into what you're going to do cheer for the time-invest!
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Right people, this is what i meant with the epic fail point. This guy claims that sandbox features are epic fail. That means pvp= epic fail to him, anything else then linear and straight = epic fail to him.
Here is the epic fail from sabradin ? Yes this is trolling from me but i had to laugh.
Please sabradin , read my post about why your argument is considered wrong.
Oh btw. Plantedside is a FPS but it is an MMO. That's like on line of my post , that makes your post , well empty .
----------------------------------------------------------- the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn
disreguard the title of this thread and listen to this im listening. MMOs are about time-investing grinds entirely untrue. this statement here tells me you have either played very few MMO's and are speculating, or your only stating false opinions to prove your point. SWG is a prime example. it would take me 2 days to get the profession build I wanted, half our to get the armor I wanted and half our to get the weapon I wanted. those items were also very well off in terms in PvP. MMO's are about having fun, role playing in a virtual world for some, PvP for others, and others PvE. the only game that is all about time-investing grinds is WoW. get off of that game, there are many, many, many more working (some even better) concepts that can go into MMO's. it is THE thing that seperates it from other games such as FPS LOL. um. no. the thing that seperates MMO's from FPS. first off, MMO's are ALWAYS online. you RP in MMO's. your character is a virtual world interacting with other characters. you PvE. you PvP. and your in an ever evolving virtual world. your play your character, constantly gaining rewards and losing em. thats THE thing seperating MMORPG's from Halo 3, or Ghost Recon. etc. WE NEED / WANT these um, no, YOU want and YOU need, don't speak for everyone else. inexperienced (or unwise) singles who wish to bastardize the MMO for some stupid sandbox idea are not thinking clearly! nice. insults for people who don't share the same opinion as you? pathetic. how is enjoying sandbox games unwise, or inexpierenced? you do realize sandbox MMO's have been out for....10 years? WoW is the first TRUE theme park game to every been released. even a game like Everquest had some sandbox features.
considering your calling ppl who have been playing mmo's for 10 years or so inexpierenced.......
the more you comment, the more i realize its you who appears to be unwise or inexpierenced they're the type that would here the ideas of communism and go "Yeah! that sounds right!" this is commical. are you really gonna lecture what kind of ppl who would like communism when you yourself above attempted to tell people what they like and what they need? they dont stop to think that it doesnt work! lol it doesn't? i didn't realize that UO didn't work, i didn't realize L2 didn't have a 1 million subs. i had no idea that even SWG had a handsome amount of subscriptions. I also had didn't realize that even when EVE has been out for going on 4 years, continues to grow in subscriptions.
nice try. but i get the feeling your comparing sanbox games to wow, after all, wow is the ONLY theme park game EVER to draw more subscriptions then any sandbox games. and anyway sandbox mmo doesnt even sound right neither does Buffalo Wings, but i bet you've ate, or do eat them. ask yourself this question, if you think sandbox mmo might be good, why would you have levels (which are necessary to be considered an MMO) in the first place if all you want to do is play a game where everything is flat and everyone is equal (except for skill)? You might as well play an FPS game.. because an FPS game already provides that skill-based system (without the annoyance of some stupid levels) umm, this is what tells me that you know absolutly nothing about MMO's except for maybe WoW. SWG, UO, EVE, i can go on and on about games that did not have levels and have been considered as some of the greatest MMO's to play to date.
also, I would love for you play SWG - pre and tell me that game was *flat* it was much more diverse, and there were 10x the amount of things to do in that game then there were in WoW.
this is what really cracks me up, you telling me that in sandbox games everyone is equal. ENTIRELY UNTRUE. that statement proves you have never played any MMO's other then WoW and know nothing of which you speak of. no, in MMOs you have the significant difference from FPS games.. skill is not enough. You have to be willing to invest the time into what you're going to do wow. someone really enjoys repetitive grinding. good for you, glad to hear what you like in MMO's. that does not mean others enjoy something else about MMO's. cheer for the time-invest! cheer for not knowing anything you try to speak!
as anyone can see, your post are laughable if not shameful.
Calling WoW pure Theme Park is somehow awkward while Lineage 2 and EQ got sandbox elements? I would like to hear from you what you define under "sandbox" because your post confused me totally.
Calling WoW pure Theme Park is somehow awkward while Lineage 2 and EQ got sandbox elements? I would like to hear from you what you define under "sandbox" because your post confused me totally.
L2, while having class's, pvp was not faction based, but a little more free for all pvp based on a karma system. thats more sandbox style pvp. it also had death penalties, player item looting and expierence loss.
Everquest, instead of instanceing all raids, had raids fighting eachother for a boss kill which is a sandbox element old style, Everquest also had item looting.
As for the game. I got a very strong feeling that yes its gonna be another WoW clone. I play WoW and i enjoy it.
If this was exactly like WoW but in a Star Wars skin would i play it? Yes probably. Would i prefer it to be a SWG PRE-CU type of game with features from WoW in? Yes I'd much prefer that
But then again id much prefer to play in the timeline of say Episode 3 then any other Star Wars era.
I love all the people who took my comment as some form of hate for sandbox MMO's. I love them. However, this game will not be one, sorry. They will not do it a second time. Face reality. You can’t have a "Supper story based MMO like you have never seen before" and a sandbox.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I love all the people who took my comment as some form of hate for sandbox MMO's. I love them. However, this game will not be one, sorry. They will not do it a second time. Face reality. You can’t have a "Supper story based MMO like you have never seen before" and a sandbox.
I love all the people who took my comment as some form of hate for sandbox MMO's. I love them. However, this game will not be one, sorry. They will not do it a second time. Face reality. You can’t have a "Supper story based MMO like you have never seen before" and a sandbox.
i disagree. you can have a great story with both. the biggest difference between sandbox and themepark is after a few years.
take WoW for example. you've already done the blackrock storylines, AQ, Naxx, killed Illidan, Kael, VashJ and now your off to kill the lich king. what else is left? kil'jaeden and thats about it?
with themeparks, they have to continue coming out with huge expansions for stories.
sandbox is the opposite. because its sandbox, your able to keep the big story line NPC's alive and change stories with a patch rather then needing an expansion. in WoW, the only thing they did was ADD stories, in a sandbox game, after a storyline has been out so long they can do a patch to where the story and completing it affected the world and continue the story in other means.
In wow, what are they gonna do? remove Illidan and co from the game since everyone's already killed him 100 times? don't think so.
Comments
And neither can you, so what's to say we're wrong and you're not?
Nothing. But at least we don't attempt to pass off our thoughts as fact. Like someone in this thread saying that his opinion is 150% guaranteed to be true.
Oh cmon, it's called exaggeration, it's a literary device to show a strong opinion on something.
And damn near every post on this board has people saying "This game will be the best game ever."!
How is that any different?
Nothing. If a man jumps off a bridge, do you jump, too?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people. Just because there's extremist flamers and fanbois around, why do you have to sink to their level.
And posting a supposed outcome of a game that makes it look bad, and then citing that as truth, regardless of if you want to exaggerate or not, is aggrevating at best. Just as agrrevating as people who say this game will be the second coming.
Ok, spend time arguing with the SWTOR fanbois now, because they're just as bad right? Or do you only pull that argument out on someone negative about the game so you can appear to be the unbiased mediator?
The Official God FAQ
meh, I'm just gonna wait till open beta to pass any judgment. If it sucks then I won't play, plain and simple. At this point though I do like how they aren't really getting people's hopes up and over hyping shit with information on features that may not make it .
What's worse? A lot of promises they will never follow thru on? Or little information? Many MMOs fail because of broken promises.
Please link me to a fanboi that states this game will be huge and super-great and have everything anyone has ever dreamed off. I will use the same arguments against him, I swear.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
"And damn near every post on this board has people saying "This game will be the best game ever."!
How is that any different?"
Or you can reverse that and say nearly every other post is a disgrunted gamer going out of his way to ditch a game not even fully designed yet! Imagine that, fanboys on a Star Wars forums board, oh my! Quess you thought you would find Vanguard fans here instead?
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Preachy.... umm.... OK? I thought I was pretty straight forward. Talk about what? Sounds more like you telling me what I should like. So what's to talk about, you seem to have it all figured out. Just don't tell me what I want or what I need. I'll be my own judge thank you very much.
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Preachy.... umm.... OK? I thought I was pretty straight forward. Talk about what? Sounds more like you telling me what I should like. So what's to talk about, you seem to have it all figured out. Just don't tell me what I want or what I need. I'll be my own judge thank you very much.
I talked about facts and opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
You can want sandbox MMO, sure. But just as a sandbox MMO player want to encourage other people to like sandbox MMO, I want to discourage them from liking sandbox MMO and encouraging them instead to like FPS when they want to play a game based on skill, and a themepark MMO when they feel like playing a game based on time-investing.
Sandbox MMO may be your thing, but its not for me. And I have no problem discouraging other people from playing it, as I see the more people playing themepark MMO (specifically Star Wars TOR), the better.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Preachy.... umm.... OK? I thought I was pretty straight forward. Talk about what? Sounds more like you telling me what I should like. So what's to talk about, you seem to have it all figured out. Just don't tell me what I want or what I need. I'll be my own judge thank you very much.
I talked about facts and opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
You can want sandbox MMO, sure. But just as a sandbox MMO player want to encourage other people to like sandbox MMO, I want to discourage them from liking sandbox MMO and encouraging them instead to like FPS when they want to play a game based on skill, and a themepark MMO when they feel like playing a game based on time-investing.
Sandbox MMO may be your thing, but its not for me. And I have no problem discouraging other people from playing it, as I see the more people playing themepark MMO (specifically Star Wars TOR), the better.
bad news for you then. im pretty confident this game will have sandbox elements, they will likely be mixed in with some theme park elements also. but at last, this game could very well have sandbox elements in both character development and pvp. if you'd like to argue that on facts, go right ahead. theres nothing stating theme park at all.
but here's a few things for you. first off, sandbox does work, L2 got how many subscriptions? 1 million? thats called working.
now onto the game. character development with little restriction is normally considered sandbox. character development where you pick a class and nothing changes except abilities designed only for that class is normally called theme park.
looking at Biowares single player RPG's, i would say most of the character development in those games, even knowing has levels, there is still very little restriction in how your character chose's abilities. KOTOR series is a prime example. go up any skill and ability tree you like at any time. KOTOR 2 was even more flexible and diverse, picking a basic jedi class and regardless of class mixed picking any ability etc at any time. but more so picking any prestige class you ant with no restriction diversing your character even more with more flexible character development then the original. Mass effect also have very little character development structure.
theme park pvp. you go into in instance to pvp, pitted against an even number of enemies. sandbox pvp is a little more geard about guilds with less instancing.
theres nothing mass effect has done in the pass to indicate it will lean 1 direction or the other. But i don't see personally Bioware instancing PvP as a priority. i can say why, but its just a matter of opinion.
but here's the biggest thing. that thrown in with the coupled fact that Bioware sought out sandbox mmo developers tells me that we can expect to see sandbox elements in the game. i don't think this game will be sandbox focused in all elements by any means. but to say the game will be theme park is utter garbage and untrue.
i personally think its a safe bet to expect the game to have both elements in different aspects of the game.
Please dont be another level based clone grind fest!
You know it will be. They wont touch sandbox like features with a 10 foot pole.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
how do you know that? o thats right you don't. your just guessing. gotcha. well, here is a little education for ya, about 6 months after the studio in Austin was built, Bioware hired several developers who were well known in coding sandbox mmo's to work in there studio in Austin.
There Developers have obviously touched em before.
i really don't care 1 way or the other as long as the character development cycle is diverse.
Never skilled up a mage/creature handler in UO have you?
. Sandbox MMOs have time sinks, the game just doesn't require you to play the game as a second job ( or only job to most of the current raiders).
Never skilled up a mage/creature handler in UO have you?
. Sandbox MMOs have time sinks, the game just doesn't require you to play the game as a second job ( or only job to most of the current raiders).
Every RPG has time sinks. Every game in which you somehow advance your character has timesinks. *shrugs* Skillbased, Levelbased, no difference really in that aspect. Grind out levels or grind out skill-levels. It#s really basically the same, isn't it? That is not to say that I don't see the difference between skill and level based, but the basic mechanic behind raising your character is the same.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Preachy.... umm.... OK? I thought I was pretty straight forward. Talk about what? Sounds more like you telling me what I should like. So what's to talk about, you seem to have it all figured out. Just don't tell me what I want or what I need. I'll be my own judge thank you very much.
I talked about facts and opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
You can want sandbox MMO, sure. But just as a sandbox MMO player want to encourage other people to like sandbox MMO, I want to discourage them from liking sandbox MMO and encouraging them instead to like FPS when they want to play a game based on skill, and a themepark MMO when they feel like playing a game based on time-investing.
Sandbox MMO may be your thing, but its not for me. And I have no problem discouraging other people from playing it, as I see the more people playing themepark MMO (specifically Star Wars TOR), the better.
First of all I never said I was in favor of anything. (sandbox, FPS, whatnot)
Second of all facts and opinions. Like you first sentence that tells me disreguard the OP and listen to you. WE NEED / WANT these... HUH?? We who exactly? Cuz I know you didn't just speak for everyone else did you. How about, I NEED / WANT these.... then that becomes YOUR opinion. Then my friend you go on to insult everyone that doesn't agree with you, compare them to a communist and laugh at them. That is neither opinion nor fact. That is just telling me and everyone else that the OP's thread is worthless and YOU are going to enlighten us and tell us what's correct. Please remove yourself from the soap box.
NOW I am preaching. But I think it was tactful on my part. But thats my opinion.
hehe you got a very limited view upon a sandbox, first of all sandbox is NOT only about skills, and what is really funny, sandbox games are definitly NOT flat and everyone equal that's in fact the current state of MMO ...looking at you WOW!! Sorry it seems you have no clue what so ever what a sandbox is supose to be seeing what you just explained.
The only thing you sort of right about is that in this day and age sandbox will not work, sure it will work for us niche old school MMORPG players, but face it the majority of people into this genre don't want to put any effort into a MMORPG, as most from what I see ingame/forums/websites seem to be people that lack patients and or are very jalouze at people who might outlvl/skill them, and yeah a sandbox game doesn't hold your hand if done sort of correctly, and that is something that the majority of people simply do not want in a game regardless what genre, I mean else this genre of MMORPGames would have evolved into more then we had instead of only looking better but with far limited options for players to enjoy.
republic nge
Phantasy Star : The old republic! Has a ring too it
So you will do this?
Kil l 10 bears
raid a dungeon
do more quests
do more quests
level
have one road to make your class
class unbalance
instanced batttlegrounds
WOW mate, that sound allot of fun. May i give you an awesome mmo? Well this is what you have to do. Check the F2P mmo's with cash shops, they have the same features.
If this would be the case, the game is the same as any F2P korean mmo. The same features
Sandbox mmo 's and the trolls who say mmo' don't need sandbox features don't have a clue what they are talking about.
Sandbox features are warfare, you can think of 100 vs 100 fighting each other for ground, base or a world. Building things , like your character and make your character unique, be more then a combatent, be more then a crafter. Sandbox features are mostly not instanced, heeeeeeeey, that's massive. Sandbox features mostly have non-linear game play and if designed well, you have allot of diversity when you play your game and it makes it less grindy.
Now wouldn't it be cool to have that + a good story and quests along with sandbox features like character development , pvp and world events etc.
Yeah, but that's not the old republic. Allot less sandbox features and most of the features / formula = themepark based , thus makes it not a hybrid mmo with elements of both, but a themepark mmo.
You know trolls and 12 year olds and of course the normal people of these forums. If you have things of both ala story and quests ,dungeons linear and pvp, world and progression /customization ( housing, cities building) you have a chance on becoming very successful because it attracts people of both game styles.
The guy in this thread said that sandbox features doesn't make sense. You basically made your argument epic fail against mine argument. Get back to reality kid. Sandbox features combined with linear features = epic win. 100% themepark = extreme , 100% sandbox = extreme . Combine = diversity for both styles. A guide into a world with a game = the unused formula and is considered in my opinion, the NEXT-GEN MMO!
Now kids, have a nice day! Especially to the guy who said sandbox features =epic fail , unless you like grinding quests all day but i don't think you will have fun for that , for a long time , since MMO'S should last longer then 1 month. You could do that. A good example of to linear and less diversity = WAR , another one is age of conan. Both will never reach the success, they could have. EVE is 100 % sandbox, while it is a successful mmo, implanting some linear features and a better UI, could do wonders for EVE. But of course, it is EVE, it is space and that already draws not the majority
.
Attracting and creating elements of both and be the first mmo to have both linear and sandbox elements combined GOOD, then those developers can probably have a fair guess, that they aren't gonna fail. ( It depends of course on how you implant it)
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the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE
Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn
Blah blah blah.......blah blah blah...... blah blah. Who made you the #1 authority on what a fricken MMO is or should be. Your OPINION is preachy.
Your opinion that it sounds "preachy" is also, preachy.
We can go on eternally about emotions and motives/styles
if you'd like to focus or talk about the facts id like to
Right people, this is what i meant with the epic fail point. This guy claims that sandbox features are epic fail. That means pvp= epic fail to him, anything else then linear and straight = epic fail to him.
Here is the epic fail from sabradin ? Yes this is trolling from me but i had to laugh.
Please sabradin , read my post about why your argument is considered wrong.
Oh btw. Plantedside is a FPS but it is an MMO. That's like on line of my post , that makes your post , well empty
.
-----------------------------------------------------------
the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE
Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn
as anyone can see, your post are laughable if not shameful.
Calling WoW pure Theme Park is somehow awkward while Lineage 2 and EQ got sandbox elements? I would like to hear from you what you define under "sandbox" because your post confused me totally.
L2, while having class's, pvp was not faction based, but a little more free for all pvp based on a karma system. thats more sandbox style pvp. it also had death penalties, player item looting and expierence loss.
Everquest, instead of instanceing all raids, had raids fighting eachother for a boss kill which is a sandbox element old style, Everquest also had item looting.
Shadenis wtf are you going on about!
As for the game. I got a very strong feeling that yes its gonna be another WoW clone. I play WoW and i enjoy it.
If this was exactly like WoW but in a Star Wars skin would i play it? Yes probably. Would i prefer it to be a SWG PRE-CU type of game with features from WoW in? Yes I'd much prefer that
But then again id much prefer to play in the timeline of say Episode 3 then any other Star Wars era.
I love all the people who took my comment as some form of hate for sandbox MMO's. I love them. However, this game will not be one, sorry. They will not do it a second time. Face reality. You can’t have a "Supper story based MMO like you have never seen before" and a sandbox.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
mmm supper, now i am hungry!
/noogie
i disagree. you can have a great story with both. the biggest difference between sandbox and themepark is after a few years.
take WoW for example. you've already done the blackrock storylines, AQ, Naxx, killed Illidan, Kael, VashJ and now your off to kill the lich king. what else is left? kil'jaeden and thats about it?
with themeparks, they have to continue coming out with huge expansions for stories.
sandbox is the opposite. because its sandbox, your able to keep the big story line NPC's alive and change stories with a patch rather then needing an expansion. in WoW, the only thing they did was ADD stories, in a sandbox game, after a storyline has been out so long they can do a patch to where the story and completing it affected the world and continue the story in other means.
In wow, what are they gonna do? remove Illidan and co from the game since everyone's already killed him 100 times? don't think so.