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Do Lotro Players Seem Opposed to Team Play?
Majestico
Member UncommonPosts: 481
Okay, before you answer this post's question, I should mention what prompted me to ask it.
First of all, I am a huge Lotro fan. I'm a long-time fan of role-playing games, from pen and paper, through to computer games. When I first got hooked up to the Internet several years ago, I became aware of the MMORPG scene.
At first, I thought that they were going to be massive versions of games like Baldur's Gate, and Neverwinter Nights. With thousands of players, and loads of storylines,etc. My first game was Everquest 2, and because I was a newbie, this illusion of a 'huge, single-player' game seemed real. I was in heaven, and thought I had finally discovered my 'Holy Grail' of gaming. However, it was not long before I started to ask other bemused players questions like; 'When does the actual story begin?', and it was not long before I discovered the awful truth, that there really wasn't an underlying narrative to events. That the entire game was just an exercise by clever games developers in how to stretch out gameplay so that it takes players loads of time to get anywhere, thus meaning we would remain subscribers and fill their coffers. I soon learned the game mechanics, and whilst I was stil a fan of the genre, I was massively disappointed. There was a vast amount of potential in this genre (there still is), and I figured that someday one dev would come along and realise it.
Now, the main reason why I was so forgiving of such a banal, time-sink, game-play system, was primarily because it was social gaming. I enjoyed forming groups and going off to tackle some dungeon, or a particularly grueling quest. That to me is where MMO's have the most appeal.
So when Lord of the Rings Online came out, and I realised that their was finally an MMO with a strong plot, and which got closer to the feel of those earlier games. I was hooked, and still am.
However, here is the irony of this. I had finally gotten something closer to my holy grail of rpg's, but in doing so, a lot of the social aspect seems to have gone with it. Now surely there is room for both?
Perhaps it is just that my new kin is still finding its feet, or maybe that people are wanting to take their time and explore Moria on their own. But it seems to me as though the only times people form a fellowship these days are when it is required to do so by some quest, and that when it is done, they simply disband. Sure there are PUG's always forming in the /lff channel. And you may be lucky and get a good one with friendly people. However, in my experience, as soon as the quest is completed people say their farewells, usually saying they have added you to their friend list, but you never hear from them again. And I am to blame in this as well, as I have a full friend list, and don't even remember who most of them are!
Is this a trend being experienced by all MMO's at the moment? Or is Lotro just not that socialable a game? I know that be all intents and purposes it seems like a very sociable game, because it is very casual friendly, but ironically it seems it is this casualness which makes people just solo most of the time.
Now I know there are people who will say that it is just my experience and that I should take the initiative and form more groups with friends. Is this the case? Is it just me, or is there really an issue at the moment with people forming fellowships?
I'd like to hear your opinions, and thanks in advance to anyone who does.
Comments
I know there have been quite a few times where I have logged in only to have about an hour or so of game time available. When my time is running that short, I like to go somewhere and get something done. This does not really leave time to spend looking for a group.
I tend to solo more often than not. I am in a kinship with a group of good people, who I will spend much time chatting with.
I also typically do not really group up unless there is a quest that needs a group to finish, or running through an instnace or raid.
There have been a few times where I've grouped with other people if we are all in the same spot beating up the same mobs. That way we do not "steal" kills from each other.
Almost all MMOs are this way now. A lot of people prefer to solo, and only group when absolutely necessary. You have to join a Kin or Guild in order to get social interaction in modern MMOs.
You see Mogloth, that is my point exactly.
You say there have been 'quite a few times' when your time is running short and thus this casual attitude is exceptible, therefore has the rest of the communtiy to exist on the basis that people might only have an hour to play? Do you see what I mean?
I've done almost as much grouping in my short time playing Lord of the Rings by itself as I have done in all other MMORPGs I've played combined. This game welcomes grouping, is by far the easiest one to group in and has the most active 'looking for group' social scene I've seen.
I want to group in LOTRO. That hasn't always been the case in the other games I've played.
Ever since World of Warcraft hit the MMO market, game communiites took a major turn from required grouping to anti grouping. As an example when WAR was released I played the first month without hardly seeing anybody talk in chat channels. There were major complaints or questions on many message boards saying " Why does nobody talk in WAR?" In DAOC there was group exp bonues and coin bonuses for group leveling. It was the preferred way to level. Then developers decided to make games in easy mode which no longer required you to group to level effectively. Grouping fosters friendships and its a starting point for people to get to know others on a game level without being to invasive or personal.
When i played DAOC i knew most everybody on the server and their alts. I got to know them by grouping with them in RVR and PVE. I want to point out that the average age group was probably 25+ as you rarely if ever saw somebody 18 and under playing the game unless it was children of the moms and dads playing the game.
Now i think parents figure 15 bucks a month is a cheap babysitter as you find very young players 12 years old on up playing games like WOW all day long and there parents don't have to worry where they are at because they won't leave their rooms for any reason. I think adults are more apt to seek and form groups because the social element of the game is more important then the game itself. So no its not LOTO in general its gaming society in general that no longer foster or prioritize group play over solo. Again thank Blizzard for that.
The sad truth is, we casual gamers want to be uber just like the hard-core types that are on 16 hours a day. So we grind away every evening in solo-mode for our precious hour or so, ignoring group invites and anything else that might slow us down, hoping that one day we too can stand proudly in the middle of Bree in our shiny level 60 epics, surrounded by envious, awe-struck lowbies who want to be just like us.
If this weren't true, then we'd all be playing Second Life.
Yes, I can only fully agree with the OP. As nice as LOTRO as game is, and the people are usually friendly, but in some places its extremely difficult to find a group, and a second after the quest is done the group disbands without a further word. Weirdest thing I have ever seen. I really wish someone could explain that to me.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Lotro has the Book/Chapter quests to go through which drives the story along , though you dont have to do them if you dont want to, the diversty of Lotro is great as there is so many different reasons for grouping.
People looking to do the chapter/book quests tend to group to get them done and then go and do something else.
I myself will ofteen look for a group that is doing a particular part of the storyline. There are alot of great KInships ( Guilds) in Lotro and there is so much stuff to do especially now with the new Moria Expansion where I think Kinships and Fellowship groups will come into their own , add to that all the great new stuff such as Legendary Weapons Items and Armour that can actually be levelled up theres never been a better time to get into this game .... its an absoulutley stunning game and now even better !
This is a really interesting question...
Before Moria I thought that LotrO was a very group-heavey game and the community seemed alot more willing to group than other recent MMOs Ive played such as TR, AoC and WAR. One of the reasons I didnt care so much for theese games where that they felt like single player games where LotrO were more about ultiplayer.
But... with Moria it seems like everyone is soloing alot more, myself included. Its just alot of fun to run around alone and explore More and the combat have become alot more fun IMO. As a small group you can do very well in Moria and with only 2 people its pretty easy to do most quests and there is not alot of quests tha require a full group.
So right now it seems that players are more opposed to group play than we were before the expansion and hopefully this will change as we get further away from MoM launch.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
While, as mentioned above, I am not a heavy grouper I am very excited about the 3 person instances Turbine created for Moria. I have been to one so far. The library I believe it was.
When I played WoW, I was in a hardcore raid guild. After awhile that whole scene just got old. The idea of spending hours in one setting hoping something dropped for your class wore on me.
So, I guess in gaming I swung the pendulum to the other side. I went from raid centric to solo centric. However, I would like to attempt some group instances again, and I believe the 3 person ones are a very good start.
Well technically I would say life has always been this way. If you move to a town with a very large college (like say 40k or more students) you will find that most people stay within their group of friends and rarely do too much outside of it.
Some MMOs have just molded themselves to what actually occurs in real life. Games like UO were like this, but games like EQ or FFXI had rather nastily enforced grouping and were less like this, but jsut as socially distasteful IMO. Forced socialization tends to just make greedy people.
Games like CoX have the best socialization I have seen. Reminds me more of a smaller college town were people are not so stand-offish but also more laid back and don't try to turn you into "their kind of person".
I think if you look outside of MMOs it all starts to fit into a larger picture. Assuming everyone wants to talk to everyone is not just misguided. Its backasswards. Haven't you ever seen "Revenge of the Nerds"?
Also as far as LOTRO specifically alot of people do group quite often but there are also a number of people who solo. I personally prefer to explore alone for two reasons I don't want to burden others/have them burden me with how I feel like doing it and I don't want to not have an idea of what is going on when other people are depending on me.
I have rarely had real rtouble getting a group for the major stuff. Off the path stuff yeah sure that can be a problem. All in all a lot of people run around in small fellowships with kin mates. And in a small fellowship you can do a lot. Therefore they are not going to take in any old stranger who may be annoying or pushy or bossy or incompetent.. At the same time they are usually happy to have decent people around.
I think a lot of people make excuses. They suck at winning people over and making friends and then blame the game or other people. If you are friendly, just ask people how they are doing and be helpful you can quickly make a network of acquaintences.
If you demand that everyone always be wanting to group with everyone then you are essentially forcing certain small groups of friends to tolerate unpleasant people on a pretty regular basis. People don't really want to do that. On the other hand people do want and will actively go out of their way to group with people they like or at the least know are fairly OK.
Do you have a high opinion strangers or the general MMO populace. Have you ever used the term "WoW kiddie" or "WoW tard"? Are you surprised that people are skeptical about grouping with people they don't know if you have?
People tend to operate in small groups of friends this has always been true.
I agree! The 3-instances is a great idea and the ones I have tried are very well designed and have interestin encounters. thee is also some solo-instances inside Moria that are great if you just have 30 min to play and just want to jump into some quick action with nice rewards (for legendary items)
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
You see Mogloth, that is my point exactly.
You say there have been 'quite a few times' when your time is running short and thus this casual attitude is exceptible, therefore has the rest of the communtiy to exist on the basis that people might only have an hour to play? Do you see what I mean?
I think the rest of the community exists to enjoy the game as they see fit. Regardless of whether that is grouping or soloing. There are just too many different type of players out there.
I personally have had it with bad groups, rude people, and waiting around for people to "come back" so that we can continue. I've had it with groups that assume you've done the instance before, assume that you can read their minds. I have had it with groups where people join and don't help or they just drop with no explanation.
Quite frankly, if there is a group doing a quest, instance, what have you, and I need it or am in the mood to help "just because" (and boy... I can't tell you have many times I've offered to help, they've said yes, only for me to travel across an area only to find them "just" finishing) I will group for that one quest. If they are continuing to another quest and there isn't too long of a wait then I'll continue with them.
Otherwise I am not going to set aside my precious game time (whether that is thirty minutes, an hour, 2 hours, or four hours) just to wait around on other's schedules or deal with bad attitudes.
I prefer to group with people I already know as I "know' that I will have a decent time and there will be little to no attitudes.
The LOTRO community is a good community but like any community it runs the gamut of personalities.
Qutie frankly if one wants to group more, I say find a kinship that is very pro grouping and you should be good to go.
But in no way do I think that the LOTRO community is pro solo or pro group. They are pro "whatever they find fun at the time" and will play accordingly.
I mean, listen, if I get guys like you then "great" but the reality is that I'm going to get all sorts of people and quite frankly if that is the case then I'm just going to hang with the kinship when it comes time to group.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I just grabbed LOTRO today, and I'm about to install it, so ... uh, yay for me. (Just saying I don't know how the in-game situation is right now.)
For me, I am a soloist the massive majority of the time. Part of this could be contributed to the fact I suffer from Generalized Anxiety Disorder, so I get kind of antsy when other people start talking to me. However, that's not really the truth in my case- I normally feel great when I'm playing an online game, and dealing with most people online doesn't trigger my anxiety.
What I don't get about grouping with other players, and/or joining guilds (I guess I should get used to saying "fellowship") is a few things.
One, in all the online games I've played- and I've played 'em ALL until the most recent batch of releases (so say, up until LOTRO's beta)- in ALL of those games, when I joined with other people to group they inevitably did one thing every time: Rush, rush rush rush rush rush rush rush OMG kill OMG kill OMG kill. I'd be like... uh, could we pause for ten seconds so I can gain mana? Give me a second to take a sip of pop? I mean, I never experienced a group where there wasn't this mentality that you become invincible or something. On the flip side is the group that says they're going to go do something and then 45 minutes later you're still waiting for three people to finish getting ready. I have a TON of things I could be doing with those 45 minutes. So part of the issue for me is playstyle difference. I just haven't ever found a group that takes a slow, happy-go-lucky pace like I do. (I'm not out to power level or gain as fast as possible... I don't care whatsoever how long it takes me to level or gain skills, etc. All that matters is- am I having fun?
Two, there are too many people who get upset when you die. Again, this is just generally true in MMGSs. My normal response is to laugh and/or groan at how close I almost came to saving someone, or otherwise enjoy/learn from the defeat. But too many whine and bitch and yell about dying. Not everyone, thankfully. But when you get someone like that... well, that person has the opposite personality type to me, and it makes risking a group iffy, since you don't want to end up in one with a person like that.
Three, sometimes "real life" calls right in the middle of the game. I might be fighting a big old boss at the end of a 4 hour dungeon, but there are instances where I have to get up and walk away from the computer knowing I'm letting my character die. I do not understand the "responsibility" lack that some others have where they simply never have to step away except at convenient intervals. I mean, I'm not married and have no kids and STILL don't have the freedom to always stay glued to the screen when I'm in an online game. Since I know it's not fair to make others die since I had to step away, I tend to not group, because that way there will be no drama.
And there's one thing I don't do- anywhere, online or off, and that's drama. It's a big pet peeve, and the last place I want it is in my "escape" from reality in online gaming.
I just wish developers would understand there are serious reasons why people can't group and didn't penalize soloists for wishing to be part of a never-ending game product with epic exploration and new content, without a part of their play reasoning being to group or socialize. Players should be able to be an entirely silent lone wolf throughout an online game, dealing with others only through trades or perhaps saving someone from death while passing by on the road, only to blend back into the shadows afterwards, forgotten.
Well, this is my two cents on the matter of grouping in MMGSs in general. Take from it what you will.
_______________________________
MMORPG is an inaccurate term...
I use a new and improved term: MMGS = Massively Multiplayer Gaming Service.
Excellent post; Druidblue (and also Sanreth's above - who I find myself agreeing with everytime I read one of his posts)
I've had some experience with a cousin of mine who suffers from Social Anxiety Disorder, and so I have learned some things about it. He actually uses the Internet as an outlet, as his condition does not manifest itself over the Net, only in everyday occurences like going to the shops and things.
Anyway, before I read your post, I was actually about to start a thread about this 'player rush' that seems to occur whenever one joins a group. And when I read your post, Druidblue, you hit the nail on the head.
It's as though, as soon as a fellwship is formed, everyone starts acting like they are on steroids - and begin zooming around like madmen/or women for that matter, in some frenzy to complete the quest.
This to me is possibly the most frustrating aspect of grouping, and it is especially evident with most PUGS.
Let me give you an exanple. I formed a group the other night, and it involved several quests. Now, first off we had to speak to the various questgivers, and then set off. Well, I for one like to read the quest text, so that I know what the quest is all about. My companions were either amazingly quick readers, or they were simply just pression accept on all of the quests, without bothering to read them. Then the group got split up, as some of us were reading the quests, whereas the rest had just zoomed on. So now we were bedraggled and seperated, not to mention some of us had not even been given time to stock up on potions and rations. These players were acting like it was some kind of race. In doing so, some of the quests got ruined, as not everyone was at the same stage (like when we got an escort quest and had to do it twice, due to others jumping the gun and talking to the npc before everyone was ready.
I do not find that kind of group to be enjoyable, and I do not think that is how the game is meant to be played. I mean, what is the rush?
Worse comes when it is a epic quest, which involves more reading, and should be great fun. However, the people rushing to complete it, make it so that we cannot enjoy any cut-scenes, or follow the in-game story, so that it just is a series of meaningless fights.
Not my idea of fun at all, and it frustrates me no end.
Now fair enough, if everyone knew what these quests were (perhaps re-doing them), or if you were urgently trying to blitz through some quests to get up in level quickly.
But for the most part, I like to take my time, read the quests, follow the story-line (like if the NPC villians are talking etc), and basically be able to follow what is going on. This way the group can act as a unit, and we can discuss are battle-plans, arrange who is going to crowd control which villians, who is going to attack who, etc. Also, playing at a calmer speed allows you to blether in /ooc or fellowship chat so that you can get to know who you are teamed-up with, rather than just a staistic. Or if you are into role-playing (which I have rarely seen, even on a rp-specific server) you can do some of that, and have a good time, and good laugh.
I agree that fellowships with friends and kin mates is always going to be the best option. But really though, why do 95% of players who team-up just want to do it as fast as possible? Rather than taking their time to actually enjoy it?!
Also to Druidblue:
If you want to role a toon on Laurelin, the eu server, I would like to team-up with you. I understand the social anxiety like I mentioned earlier, and there's quite a few two man quests we could do. What do you think?
I only have a small amout of game-time , I will join groups if I know I'll be there until the end - otherwise its just feels rude and a waste of time for the others in the group.
When lotro first started there were loads of people grouping up it seemed , now most of the older players are in kinships and seem to refrain from questing outside of those kinships.Plus since Moria I've had some bad experiences with pugs and interaction in general.I helped a guy out last night who was going to come to a bad end , I healed him up. Instead of fighting his attacker he ran off and let the aggro pass to me.No "Thanks" nothing , not even a wave.There is an influx of players that just want to be 60 and they can be quite selfish - hence no groups.
That kind of thing just puts me off tbh .
There are a tremendous amount of quests in Lotro with the vast majority of them being soloable. Most of the time, the only reason to do a fellowship quest is for the reward or to open up some quests afterwards (this is most often the case in the Epic quest line). Once a player realizes that they can just ignore the fellowship quests in their quest log they also realize they don't have to group. There are so many quests that one can literally get to 50 (or 60 now) without ever having to form a fellowship. Sure, some content might be missed, but it's only a small portion of what's available.
That leaves two basic reasons to fellowship: convenience and fun.
Any quest done in a fellowship (once the quest is actually started anyway
) is much easier and much quicker to finish. With more than one character the fights just don't take as long. If a hunter is in the fellowship, then you have a 15% speed bonus on getting anywhere, not to mention the possabilitiy of porting long distances and saving time that way. Etc etc. So in that respect, fellowshipping is convenient just from the time saved.
Fellowshipping is fun from the social aspect.. meeting new people, not having to worry as much about the fighting, and generally chatting with others, most often outside one's kinship. (If a player actually joins a kinship, there's a lot of players I've seen in lotro that don't).
The players that tend to drop fellowships immediatly after a quest is done were in there for the convenience... They just wanted to get it done quickly and are not interested in continuing with the group. Fellowships based on these players also tend to barrel through quests, rushing to the end as quick as possible even at the expense of individual members (defeats). In other words, they don't fellowship to be social, they fellowshipped to get something done.
Those that join a fellowship for fun or for the social aspects will tend to stick around a lot longer... just to chat or to continue helping out. The fellowship may have started to get a quest finished, but the players will be more relaxed about the goals and tend to take their time (somewhat--they still want to get it done, after all). In general, these groups will end up going through several quests together and if the players have time, maybe even all the quests in a hub or zone.
I can definitely say that I'm one of the latter players... Heck, I belong to 5 kinships on Landroval.
One thing I've noticed is that random groups form in the wilderness when there's already a group present. If an area has a bunch of people that are doing a quest solo, they tend to remain solo (though they may be polite about it, taking turns on attacking mobs and occasionally helping each other out even if not in a fellowship). They may not ever actually talk to each other, but will still act friendly or polite. But, generally, no one will offer to start a fellowship. But if a fellowship, especially a small one, enters the quest area then someone will generally ask to join, more people will be invited, and suddenly a large chunk of the random players in the area suddenly are in a group.
I've started dualboxing a little bit, so my low level characters tend to be running around in a fellowship. I almost always have someone asking to join the group... And since I don't disolve the fellowship as soon as the quest is over and actually look to see what quests the rest of the players have in common, those fellowships tend last a while (with several people getting added to my friends list).
From my experience, 2-3 people tends to be the stable limit for a fellowship. More than that and too many end up having to AFK or with too many diverging quest lines. That won't mean that the fellowship won't occasionally grow to 6 characters, but generally it'll have 2-3 core people that keep it going for more than a quest or two.
But getting back on-topic
. I'd say that most lotro players are willing to join a fellowship and even do several quests but at the same time those players aren't willing to start the fellowship.
I've also noticed that different servers have different approaches to the social aspects of the game, at least when it comes to questing. These are generalizations, of course, and exceptions exist, and are based purely on my own experience for that matter:
Again, those are just generalizations from my own experience. If a player isn't to pleased with the experience they're having on a server, my advice is to try logging into another one for a while. The differences can be surprising.
-w
Well everyone seems to agree that WoW is the cause of this, so maybe it's redundant for me to say that the same thing is happening in WoW?
Well anyway same thing over here... for the few group quests that there are unless you are friends with the group or something everyone cuts and runs immediately after the group quest is over. Kind of makes me sad
--------------------------
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I think the biggest thing is most of us are in kinships. Only time I do PUGs is as a last resort if none of my kin is on that needs the quest or in the immediate area or whatever. I do plent of group quests, just with people I know, like, and can trust not to be overly stupid.
I miss DAoC
You speak the truth Aeroangel.
Before I finally dropped my sub for WoW (I still plan to return though), I had really enjoyed my Moonglade, RP-specific server. Ironically, the rp scene over there seems much more widespread than over in Lotro (which shocked me, as the WoW community is often lambasted by other players, calling into question their I.Q. and rather unjustly so, and I had always thought that if any MMO would have hardened rp'ers, it would be Lotro.)
Some of the player created role-playing content for this server is excellent, and there was always something going on, arranged by the players, which gave the server a dynamic and interesting world where you felt comfortable to 'stay in character'.
Then with The Burning Crusade, I suddenly noticed a sharp down-turn in the level of rp-events. Of course, the usual haunts still were busy with players keeping the rp falg flying. (Whilst taking a shrap bearth around the dreaded Goldshire.
But once through that Dark Portal, story-lines and intriguing quests captured the imagination of the players, and not meany could be bothered to contiue to role-play. unless it was just some random encounters. So, whilst the actual game had increased in fun, and added more diverse and interesting environs, rp was out.
Now wit the advent of the new Wrath of the Lick King, I have been lead to understand that Blizzard has taken a few leaves in Lotro's books. More story-based adventures, complete with cut-scenes. The more I hear of it, the more I am expecting to try and get closer to it. I mean, it would not surprise me, if they begin to introduce legendary weapons, just like our own.
Perhaps Lich King may be an improvement over The Burning Crusade. But (and I should really try it first, but compared to Mines of Moria, I expect it will have faced it's match.
And thus, Wrath of the Lich KIng seems to be sharing the same problems with other games, And to sum up: it appears to this casual approve, the aversion to grouping. is an issue we shall all have to face for the future of the scene.
I find quest-based grouping to be especially bothersome because you spend a lot of time travelling to the quest location, then waiting for everyone to get there, only to complete the quest in 3 minutes. In older MMO's, groups tended to form around camps where mobs spawned. Once you got into one of these groups, you could expect to be there for hours. This allowed for more socializing between spawns and made grouping enjoyable. And since the speed of the group was dictated by the spawn-rate, there was never any feeling of being rushed.
Grinding mobs may not be everyone's cupt of tea, but the group dynamics are far more enjoyable. I prefer to solo quests, and grind in groups.
What I saw mainly in LoTRO wasnt a fear of grouping but a fear of failure among the players......I had very few groups where we fought content appropriate for the group....In fact many players refused to group unless there was a high level player basically making sure that the group would not fail........I only had one group go through an area where the odds were against us......Sure enough we got almost to the end and wiped then 3 people immediately left.......... The fun of games like this is doing quests where the odds are 50-50 or worse...That is what makes it fun....Too many players in LoTRO had to be guaranteed that they'd pass their quest or they wouldnt participate.
I think there is something to be said about that.
I've been in groups where if they wipe a few times they want to quit. Even though we've cleared away much of the content or are half way through.
Just another reason why people group a lot with kinfolk, friends or just solo.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
no
I am a refugee from WoW and I tend to play solo as a general rule. Yet I never have trouble finding groups for most anything (although instances can be a bit of a problem, grouping-wise).
I really REALLY like the way grouping works in LotRO. I only wish you could "tune" into the LFF channels of other regions, or that the game would add some kind of server-wide LFF channel perhaps.
Because I play numerous alts, no one character levels up very fast. Friends' lists are thus pretty useless to me. I may add a friend on occasion, but everyone -- EVERYONE -- levels up faster than I do, since I'm "simu-leveling" 4 to 6 classes/characters at once and having fun doing so, spending a few days at a time on any one of them.
The way grouping works in LotRO is (forgive the comparison) like a really good "one-night stand". If the chemistry is right, it can be very nice, and sometimes groups have good chemistry and get on a roll, working through a series of quests or else a variety of quests. "Hey, anybody need to do such and so?" someone will ask. And on it goes. The better groups can go on for some time like that, sometimes with people coming and going. I like the way that works. If the chemistry isn't there, though, or too many people drop out at once, people will just go their separate ways. I'm cool with that. I'm really not looking for "long-term relationships" in LotRO. (I'll do that in real life, thanks all the same.)
If I'm feeling "solitary", off I go on my own. There is plenty to do, always.
I think if you are looking for a more warm and fuzzy social kind of interaction, the right kinship is the way to go. For myself, I really REALLY dislike being in a kinship. It's too much social for my taste. And I usually feel obligated to pay attention to the never-ceasing kinship chat. Kinships also add a certain amount of pressure to go do this or that or go help this person or that. No, thanks.
That said, for my tastes, LotRO hits the social thing just right.
I read so many posts here talking about bad PUG experiences. Wow. Are we playing the same game? My PUG experiences are 95 to 98% positive. And that's the only kind of grouping I ever do.
As for Moria, I cannot speak to that, as my highest toon is a 40 champ. But I am having a blast in this game and think the grouping "ethos" in LotRO is just about right as it is. My only complaint is not in the groups themselves, but, as I mentioned above, in the limitations of the LFF system as it now stands. It's OK, but it could sure be a lot better.